Added: 4 years ago
From: pennilesscripple
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  • Can you please do more vids please??

  • thanks, art; it's nice to know these videos reach people from time to time. i want to make more, but can't right now. i hope to again at some point. check out itsfilthy and zzz3333 and others.

  • @pennilesscripple Oh, well I love your energy and videos anyway :)

  • I like the idea of exploring what needs/desires our modern conveniences are fulfilling or trying to fulfill. I think calling ALL modern equivalencies "toxic" is far too wide an analysis. Certainly that candy is a terrible thing to feed to children and actual raw berries a better alternative, it's a good example of that we all need to be aware of when and how we are being marketed too and what part of ourselves its appealing to.

  • But I don't think that ALL "raw" or "natural" modern equivalencies are bad or even less fulfilling then the original. For example, I believe that social networks like facebook do a better job of connecting us and fulfilling that inborn need for socialization then the older equivalents of physical correspondence. Another example would be something like asprin, while there are natural alternatives (and I've tried some) the filtered and produced versions are more targeted and work better.

  • Again, this isn't true of all medicines, there are no easy answers or blanket truths. Everything must be evaluated on a person to person basis and skepticism of all claims must be maintained (skepticism, not cynism).

    whew.

  • Cool little thought video on Toxic Mimics. Thanks.

  • Very interesting, and soooooo true!

  • it is a good listen for sure, but i disagree that gathering on the internet is a toxic mimic in the same way that war is related to play. a lot of great fucking things have happened online- autodidacts like myself learn more online than from real life text books. and i've been to some great schools.

  • hey blunts thanks, and i'm glad you found this conversation valuable.

    yes toxic mimics can be "great". if they were unpleasant, we wouldn't be drawn to them. but ultimately, they do not satisfy our core needs as humans.

    online learning is a toxic mimic of authentic learning, which most likely you haven't experienced in our fractured culture--e.g., a close relationship with a mentor is much richer than any online experience, which is ultimately alienating, isolating, and hollow.

  • @pennilesscripple i completely understand what you mean, and i do agree. although i have learned a lot (in isolation almost), it is no substitute for a good professor. i've had one or two professors who were life changing pedagogues, they "reached" the students on a deep level. this type of interaction is too rare. and an invaluable thing. a good professor can change your whole perspective on life. but reading all of the books in the world can't compete with a charismatic, intelligent teacher.

  • Why would you disable ratings? That's so cowardly. I can't respect that though I like many of your videos.

  • bee, consider that there are other reasons to disable ratings than cowardice

  • thumbs way up.

  • Good job!! Thanks!!

  • very nice information..thank you... toxic mimic`s in candy..( some modern cartoons can even be a good teaching tool ) BUT only if we teach our kids what the toxic mimic are depicting, that is when they will hopefully learn to use and enjoy the real things our earth and our bodies are made of : )

  • thank you for your nice reply. of course the video was about how toxic mimics go way beyond candy and effect all of us, not just children

    plus i want a world where we don't have to teach our children to be wary of corporations trying to manipulate them, and of society trying to enslave them

  • @clnmyjts I agree it goes much farther than candy..& I also agree why should we have to teach our kids about the toxic mimic`s../ Relgious cults are the biggest toxic mimic on the planet and my kids know all about it..because I`m teaching them about it..BUT your right people that won`t look and learn get stuck in the toxic fumes of a religious cults and many of the other man made mimic tools, of our natural spirit intuitions

  • In Nature, precise solutions are crafted from the micro to he macro habitat conditions, not top down, as most of us are schooled to think on these matters. So to ensure the best possible ways forward, what is required is EMPATHY and NATURAL INNATE INTELLIGENCE (both of which inhere at the cellular level as much as at the complex organism level) operating at the grass roots.

  • yes nicely put

    thanks for that insight

    it is more about allowing and trusting than controlling and hoarding

  • @djlookwood

    That sounds really interesting --- please say more, explain what you mean by these terms. How would one go about this??? Do you have experience with teaching children?

  • posted a video response, PC.

    :D

  • ...homestead-sized untaxed land plots to nuclear families (of any sort) for veganic food production, natural building construction and zero-waste living (producing personal and ecological harmony). This practically means we need Land Reform: look up MST movement in Brazil, as well as the Kew Bridge Ecovillage/Occupation & Family-Plot Food Gardens for a Sustainable Planet Petition for a best of as far as I'm currently aware. We need to reject these toxic mimics and the system that supports them.

  • Excellent video! (minus the distracting audio problem)

    To answer your question "can we do this?" I think the answer is yes, IF enough people recognize the root problem: forced disconnection from the Earth (through historical forced acquisition, followed by economics/taxation that disallows the majority, no matter how hard or long they work in lower class jobs, from ever being able to live self/community-sufficiently and sustainably). The ultimate solution is fair distribution of sovereign (cont)

  • your analysis of the roots of the problems we face is insightful, and i'm always happy to see land returned to the people in south america and elsewhere.

    but there is no one 'ultimate solution,' and it's valuable to stay in the question, not grasp for perfect answers. if you are advocating socialism, then that is still within the destructive framework of civilization.

    i agree we need to reject the toxic mimics--no consumption means no production. thank you for your thought-provoking comments

  • @pennilesscripple

    I'm not advocating socialism, I'm advocating exactly what I said. And if you don't believe in any possible solutions then what is the point of understanding the problems? How can humanity progress without something concrete to act on? Rather than just disregard what I offered off-hand without any substantive reasoning, perhaps you can tell me how this idea is NOT a solution? Peace

  • if you'll review my comment, i didn't disregard what you said. i don't know enough about your solution to really comment on its viability--i was commenting on your word choice of "ultimate," etc.

    your focus on jobs, workers, and taxation made me think your plan was grounded in socialist ideology, and i was wondering if it was

    as i said, i'm always happy to see land returned to people, so if that's what it is, godspeed

    (the phrase 'believe in a solution" doesn't make sense to me, sorry.)

    .

  • this is a lovely analysis and a terrific video... thanks

  • thank you, cr

    i'm trying to get back into making videos, so your comment is encouraging

  • thank you.

    My mind has been raped.

  • ha

    yes yours, mine, and everybody's

    i was just thinking about that a few minutes ago

  • hell ya drive me crazy gotta watch out for all the nazis tricks

  • I like Derrick Jensen - Have you read 'Welcome to the Machine? I read it a couple of years ago. I haven't read this one, but I intend to... Thanks for sharing :)

  • funny, that's about the only book of his i haven't read. i will someday, i imagine.

    i found 'endgame' to be his strongest book--highly recommended

    he also has a column now in the magazine orion that is available online--there's a lot of other writing of his online too

    take care

  • great video, 5 stars

  • I wondering why that Government building was called the Pentagon, because it sounds alot like the word Pentagram, that star witch is supose to be a sign of the devil. It was, I drew a Pentagram, than drew a outline around it useing the 5 points as markers. Than erase the pentagram. There was a design there that looked exactly like how the Pentagon looks when looking from above, exactly ! I've heard that some of the Founding Fathers were Free Masons that were into the ocult. That's some proof

  • In geometry a pentagon is any polygon that has five sides, like an octagon is any polygon with eight sides. Would there be a conspiracy about the shape of the pentagon if it had eight sides instead of five and was called the octagon? It is simply a geometric shape and yes, you can draw a pentagram in it because "penta" is a Greek word that we use as a prefix that means five. Get it? "penta"gram and "penta"gon?

  • Good video. Shared.

  • When I observe how a large part of people's day is based on relationships that are commodified it gets me feeling very isolated and disillusioned.

  • me too

    seems like if you opt out of that game, there's no one to play with

  • What do you mean commodified? I struggle with the way a lot of relationships operate, but I'm not sure why.

  • amazing piece of work.

  • commodified.

    great word, PC.

  • very intressting video

  • Great vid!!!!

    Religions and government are two of the biggest toxic mimics ever invented. Why bother to love or be loved by people when we can love and be loved by God who is touted as the ultimate substitute for everything else. Or why bother negotiating with our neighbors over our mutual interests when we can simply call the cops on them when we have a problem.

  • Excellent video Penny! Thank you for doing what you do!

  • While I agree that "toxic mimics" do exist, many of the examples given are erroneous.

    "Pornography is a toxic mimic for intimacy" is false, because people watch pornography not not to find intimacy, but to sate their sex drive.

    Your example of the fruit-shaped candies is illustrative, but that facade is too transparent for it to be a real mimic.

    Vitamin supplements are better example: in people who have no illness, consuming vitamins increases the risk of cancer, and other diseases.

  • you're a toxic mimic of someone who gives a damn

  • Masturbation alone can be very intimate let's face it.

    You Vitamin example might be better if they were used to replace nutrients that are found in whole foods that can be grown by ourselves. Vitamins (and most food) have to be purchased.

  • Utilizing technology and globalization to talk about how technology and globalization is malignant.

    Sure, you didn't directly speak out against 'Globalization' or 'Technology' but this video is apart of what appears to be a trend in left-wing* thought. That all humans are bad animals that occupy themselves in stupid ways at the cost of the Earth. All humans, that is, except for you.

    *(Note: I consider myself to be left-wing, at least on most social and economic issues)

  • >>Utilizing technology and globalization to talk about how technology and globalization is malignant.

    I'm just rattling my tin cup on the bars of my cell.

  • >>That all humans are bad animals that occupy themselves in stupid ways at the cost of the Earth.

    actually, i don't feel that way at all. humans are just ducky. industrial civilization, however, is destroying us in more ways than one.

    it seems like you're trying to call me a hypocrite. hypocrisy is advocating one thing and doing the exact opposite.

    i am advocating questioning the dominant culture. and i am doing that. where is the hypocrisy?

  • You should always question, but sometimes the dominant culture gets it right. Nonconformity for its own sake is just as likely to engender falsehoods as conformity, because you still define yourself by others standards.

  • this culture is based on violence at its very core

    its sole aim is to turn life (human and non-human) into gold bars to store in vaults

    i see nothing that it 'gets right'

    that's like saying to someone in a concentration camp 'this is for your own good'

  • Comment removed

  • "i think that New York is a new model for the new concentration camp, where the camp has been built by the inmates themselves, and the inmates ARE the guards, and they have this pride in this thing they built, they built their own prison, so they exist in a state of schizophrenia where they are the both guards and prisoners, and as a result they no longer have, having been lobotomized, the capacity to leave the prison they made or to even see it as a prison.' - Andre Gregory

  • wow, fp, that's a great quote. many thanks

    it reminds me of my song "promise me"--you might want to check out the video and/or lyrics

  • It might be said that many of our cultural institutions are toxic mimics for actual sets of human behaviour. They Remove the individual's responsibility and therefore power over one's own position.

    The police force and military are an externalized and institutionalized toxic mimic for our evolutionary methods for peacekeeping and conflict resolution. Consider the fact that it's basically illegal to get into an honest fight; "it's not YOUR job to solve your problems, you don't have that right."

  • The police's purpose is to keep order. Removing them creates anarchy, which quickly results in the strong preying on the weak.

    The military's purpose is to protect us from invaders. Removing it ensures our state's destruction at the hands of conquerors.

    Both institutions are necessary. It is our responsibility as citizens to ensure that the police and military have enough power to fulfill their purposes, and not acquire too much power and overstep their respective bounds.

  • If those instatutions get corrupted, witch they have been in the past, they become the oppisite. The police become the strong arm of the strong preying on the weak. The Millitary becomes a tool of the strong eating the weak, the viloent opressors for the few at the top threating the masses.

  • "Good bye" is a toxic mimic for death.

  • regarding play ; although war is a toxic mimic of play, some may say a facet of play is the precursor or learning stage of combat . it's interesting how physical play can turn often turn violent or sexual .

  • yeah well play, fighting, and sex are all types of connection and engagement with the other; i'm sure on one level they are all the same thing, although most people would squawk at that

    all you have to do is watch animals to see there's a fine line between play and predation

    perhaps it would be more accurate to say 'war is a toxic mimic of fighting'

  • ahh.. so scale and debasing of purpose are some main attributes of toxic mimics . i site this watch?v=MEntu4uAaRw as a toxic mimic maybe this watch?v=tCrfVjsG12I

  • yes well put--scale, debasing of purpose, diminishing of experience, immiseration, entrapment, enslavement of humanity and other life

    those are good examples, even though people would say those are 'healthy' pursuits, they are toxic mimics of health and community

    thanks jojo--you make some good points

  • I recently read 'Industrial Society and Its Future' and had a sort of revelation. The mindless march of technological 'progress' and efficiency that has been the trademark of civilization is killing the world. I think there is still hope, though, that people will wake up before it is too late. That is, if some of the idealists will step up and lead the way. I for one am beginning to plan a move to the wilderness. Let's show the world that it's not just a fantasy, but a real possibility!

  • great video

  • this is an awesome video. just watched it with rebecca. we both loved it.

    thanks for being there.

  • The nintendeo Wii for example. If you want to bowl, then just go bowl. Why play it on a console?

  • because as civilization "advances," human experience becomes more and more mediated and hollow

  • Pinesol.

    Society is designed to keep us in society. How do we live without it?

    Wilderness survival? IDK. I just want to say "fuck it" - to turn my back and walk into the woods and live.

    Now if only they taught kids how to be self-sustaining instead of to NOT think for themselves, and be dependent on the system of exploitation, to be happy, complacent slaves.

  • well one place to start would be to let go of the daniel boone man-conquering-the-wilderness-­by-himself model/mythology, and to move toward true community

    for if we had true community, we could live without the machine

    freedom isn't geographical--if we have to move to be free, we aren't free

    yes. pinesol.

    :o)

  • That's why if you're smart and living in the American economy, you get a passport and move down to a third world country whilist you still have the money to do so and hire several workers to build you a home at a cheap, low-cost price. Youre safe there. Or are you?

  • it's so good to have a term for these. they are absolutely everywhere in advertising - buy love! happiness, adventure, community! Buy life itself.

    sometimes the mimic, other times it's the behavior.

    it's even in our language

    'bargain hunting' as toxic mimicry of hunter gathering.

    'concrete jungle' as a toxic mimic of a real one.

    the fruit one in this vid has the best imagry though. substituting good fruit for bad.

  • yeah they are everywhere

    christmas is full of them: the nuclear family is a toxic mimic for supportive community, 'giftware' is a toxic mimic for meaningful exchange....

    bargain hunting and concrete jungle are great examples

    nice to know the video struck a chord

    take care

  • Good video

  • We have allowed the intellectual argument to "dissect" humanity from the world. Somehow mother earth, polar bears and the ozone layer are natural - but we are parasites. When a culture comes to loathe itself, then it is capable of exactly what we have seen since the turn of the 20th century - cultures of brutality, religions formed around hatred and intellectual "norms" based upon the premise that the human being is something to be fixed or removed from the universe. Ayn Rand was right.

  • human beings are not parasites, but this particular culture--industrial civilization--is parasitic. there have been and are many human beings who live in harmony with the earth--99% of humans in history lived that way. some people just took a wrong turn. it doesn't have to be this way.

    ayn rand doesn't like people. there is nothing wrong with people. but there is plenty wrong with this current culture.

  • Very good, never heard of toxic mimics, totally right on!

  • I thnk the toxic mimic concept is totally real and a very good thing to be aware of. Following them as clues to our basic needs that evolved over millions of years is the best way to use it - to find non-toxic ways to meet those needs. I would not rule out ALL tech inovations though, there may be some healthy balanced onces. remember, at one time fire was a new technology. Nice video and voice over BTW.

  • yes i have this conversation frequently

    modern industrial technology is based on industry--

    it requires the extraction of resources, forced labor, and social and environmental costs

    i have asked a lot of people to name one industrial technology that doesn't harm, and they can't come up with one

    can you describe a 'healthy balanced' industrial technology for me?

  • Toxic mimics... I think its an interesting, provoking, and even necessary concept. The examples of war and pornography are no doubt toxic. However, some of your other examples cannot be discounted as completely toxic. Technology like the internet can connect people that would otherwise be separated. Without technology Great ideas like this one wouldnt be able to expand and develop. Technology can be used for the common good, and shouldn't be discounted as toxic

  • yes that's a common response, but technology is not neutral, and has very measurable environmental and social effects, most of which are overlooked or dismissed in our current culture of techno-worship

    these effects come from production, use and disposal

    technology is used primarily for military and industrial applications, to accelerate the harm--and baubles, along with propaganda, are tossed to the 'people'

    check out zerzan and mander's critiques of technology if you are interested

  • eh i think this is kinda b.s. At some point everything is a "toxic mimic"... drinking tea.. giving birth in a hospital... Its like pointing out something that is painfully obvious... we are 99.9% disconnected from nature. But so what, whats the meaning of life.. look at the universe as a whole.. does it really matter? Go take some shrooms and run around in a field of flowers.

  • sorry pn but your comment doesn't quite make sense to me. you say we are disconnected from nature, which i totally get, but then you say so what? and then you say go connect to nature. huh?

    or are you saying 'escape'? are you saying that escape is the only avenue left?

    and yes it really matters. because i really care about humans and non-humans and this culture is killing us all.

  • If this culture is "killing us all" then why is the planet and nation more populated with living people than ever before?

  • dawg, do i really need to list the damage this culture has done to human beings and all of life in the very short time that it has been involved in this failed and failing experiment called industrial civilization?

    do you really need to look very far to find evidence?

    if you truly don't see it, check out zzz33333's video 'evidence of a diseased culture' for starters. then get back to me if you have more questions.

  • We aren't exactly "disconnected from nature." We are as "natural" as any other species. For all we know, our inventions and technology may be "natural." For "natural" and "harmful" can often be one in the same.

  • we (civilized) humans *are* exactly disconnected from nature. civilization is based on disconnecting humans from nature. for all we know? we do know. napalm and atom bombs and the grand coulee dam are not natural.

  • i know the path..Jehova

  • Hey Ninja, Jehova is a toxic mimic of being alive.

  • and religious belief more broadly is a toxic mimic of the sacred to be found in ourselves, in the food we eat, in the places we live in, in the seasons etc. but notably, religiosity contains the sacred in very narrow categories that always refer to power, hegemony and dominance- obedience, submission are valued. fucked up isn't it?

  • flower scented air freshener.

    the light bulb for the sun.

    (night light for the moon).

    the air conditioner for fresh air.

  • those are great (and tragic) examples, lee

    and the flowered scented air freshener is, literally, toxic

    thanks

  • ah

    toxic

    memic

    trojan horse

  • great words, vengevenge, and great timing

    thanks

    just what the doctor ordered

    reminds me of fredy perlman's 'against leviathan'

  • man vengevenge i lay in bed last night thinking about how perfect a metaphor the trojan horse is for toxic mimics...looks like a gift on the outside, but harbors destruction on the inside...very apt

  • we r

    one

    we may disagree

    one some details

    but

    i breath

    u breath

    spice

    of life

    peace and L

  • toxic mimic an abstraction which has forgotten its source a leave forgets the roots and thinks its in de pendent that word is a sign of mental illness independent individual all is one simply true
  • once the snake has been suffiently alienated from its own tail

    then it

    could if deprived

    suffiently

    eat

    its

    own tail

  • yes a toxic mimic is a simulation of reality

    a

    matrix

    a multi step technique to separate you from reality towards the goal of raping your soul

    dehuminize

    atomize

    devide

  • Youtube is a toxic mimic, I would think.

    Is it possible for us to turn away from it?

  • yes it is

  • So using Youtube is no different than eating candy fruits. But why use something that is so unhealthy?

  • i'm just tossing paper airplanes through the bars of the prison window....

    why are you using it to harass people who are trying to use it to make a difference? is that fun for you?

    if you are going to have a campaign, why not focus on the people who are truly wasting their time on youtube with fart videos--why focus on the two people you can find who are actually trying to do something meaningful?

    in other words, why are you dissimulating and playing games?

  • the sad thing that you don't get is that your videos ARE fart videos, and you aren't making a lick of a difference to anyone

  • thanks for the feedback

  • its a practical medium of mass communication. Getting the word out and educating people. its pros outweigh its cons when used in this application

  • I've heard about Orphan Drift twice and it makes me sad I've never met her or seen her channel or anything...

  • her farewell video is posted on my channel

    i miss her

  • TERRORISM GLOBAL WARMING GAY MARRIAGE OMGOMGOMG and now introducing...TOXIC MIMICS AAAAAH!!! I'm not sick of using the product of my culture, I'm sick of not knowing how they work. They key to enlightenment is knowledge, but ya gotta get off yer ass and study.

  • Toxic mimics as clues to what is missing. Very interesting.

  • I had a conversation about this with my friend the other day. It still amazes me as to how dependent we are, and that we aren't getting better, only destroying ourselves more throughly as time goes on. I wonder when the time will come when we will all sit down, as humans, and realize how much we've fucked up?

  • i think we're realizing it right now, AE

    the fact that you had that conversation with your friend shows that we are

    a lot of people are having this conversation

  • hmmm interesting

  • toxic mimics remind me of hyper-reality PC. i.e. porn, facebook, tv, internet etc. ect.

  • oh yeah

    kalle lasn talks about how damaged everyone's sexuality is by porn--it's hard to imagine who we would really be without the images we are assaulted with--and the porn is in the advertisements, too--a big root of everyone's hatred of themselves and their bodies

    and i even see that hyper-reality out in the real world with the performative, televisual behavior of people in public--life is one big youtube video

  • hhhhhmmmmmm. Im not sure that talking to someone face to face on a webcam is a toxic mimic-Stickam-. Obviously you cant have sex with that person or punch them in the face.

    Obviously reading a book is a socially isolating act. Did you realize that when you were reading this book ^_^

  • read the sidebar

    that's my response

    if you are interested in exploring this more, instead of just reacting, check out vaahti's video 'john zerzan on technology'

  • nobody wants to "explore this view" cuz its a load of bullshit, reading a book must be the most socially isolating act of all.

  • 2 limploser

    we didn't used to have books or paper for that matter we had older people that we would speak with and he or she would tell us a story or teach us how to do somthing it's the modern convienence that has made it an "isolated" act

  • good point soja

    my thought was that books help us connect with people, both living and dead, in multiple ways, and they are far from isolating

  • Sojaofdapepo: yes, i agree with you, but reading a book to find out why im socially isolated is a bit much.

  • I like that this vid suggests using mimics as an indicator of what our personal needs are. Googling the phrase - "religion as a toxic mimic for spirituality"--which is interesting, particularly because our industrial society has so separated spirituality from daily life... In a hunter-gatherer culture no one would ever question the roles of nature (& thus the divine) in our everyday life. But now we have entire sects of people who deny spiritual/transcendent connection to the world around them.

  • Excellent video - we are having to purchase inferior products. Stop shopping Walmart- you tube

    The High Cost of Low Prices (please watch the entire thing-you may never go into that store again!)

    then you tube

    Codex Alimentarius p1

    eye opener ! and MUST SEE

  • yeah i've seen it

    i haven't been in a wal-mart for years

    we don't need products,

    inferior or not....

  • wonderful video! thank you! Did you make this, penniless?

  • yeah

    i made all of my videos

    thank you

  • Yes!!! It can be done but you have to dig deep within yourself so the Real Self can burst forth. People always run to pleasure to escape pain and "pleasure" takes many forms, from a MacDonald's hamburger to heroin all using the brain and body as a tool and that's the common theme and the cycle that needs to be broken.

  • well put

    it definitely has a lot to do with 'know thyself'

  • I think about this all the time. It is so good to see someone else think like this.

  • check out derrick jensen--you'd love him

    there's a playlist of short interviews with him on redpharmacist's channel

    he has a lot of his writing available online

    his books are awesome

    thanks

  • I've just been watching his videos. I like what he has to say. Thank you.

  • yeah and he's an amazing writer--both in what he says, and in the way he says it. i can't recommend his books highly enough

    there are links to jensen's philosopherseed talks in the sidebar of my 'join the resistance' video

    he also gives talks around the country--the dates/places are on his website

  • Nice, thank you. What he has to say sounds really awesome.

  • yes it feels really good to know you're not the only one

  • yeah check out derrick jensen if you haven't yet. search 'derrick jensen' on youtube for more videos.

    there's a playlist of short interviews on redpharmacist's channel, some great talks on the philosopherseed site, and he has a lot of his writing available online.

    and his books are fucking amazing.

  • the derrick jensen quote in the sidebar expresses it better than i ever could :o)

  • imagine a world where you don't have the 'stress of daily life' i.e. industrial civilization

    imagine truly connecting to the world in spirit of play beyond the best video game there ever was

  • haha, and where you say it creates addictions, this guy JTCGiants56...that just makes it all the more evident!!! "Ummm... yeah, I'll think about that"

  • I'll imagine a world without industrial civilization, followed quickly by a world without running water, easy access to food, or social order. i'll have plenty of time to play with no job, no money, and the time-consuming act of eating. yay!! everyone's happy!!!

  • krepta i agree with you that human beings are entitled to having their very simple needs for clean water, healthy food, and supportive community met. industrial civilization is systematically degrading/destroying robbing people across the planet of those basic needs. one out of six people on the planet don't have access to healthy water--more if you count the fact that our 'clean' water has pesticides and pharmaceuticals in it.

  • and as for time consuming? hunter/gatherer societies take 12-15 hours a week to get their basic needs met. their civilized counterparts take 40, 60, even 80 hours...and still their basic needs, especially for community, go unmet. because industrial civilization is based on keeping them in a perpetual state of confused need so that they will continue to consume.

  • as for social order, i take it you enjoy living in a police state? whenever human beings are together, there is some sort of social order, just as there is with a pride of lions or a pod of whales. human beings thrive in groups of 50-150. the larger the group, the greater the problems, the more isolation, alienation, violence, and neglect you see....

  • there's a difference between a police state and a policed state. i'm not batman. i can't do it all myself. of course, with larger groups come more problems, but that's just a survey principle, it doesn't really prove anything. my point is, society provides many comforts. i can't grow or hunt my own food. so in exchange, i'll sell a farmer a cell phone. it's a trade off. no, the system's not perfect but its not to blame either. we can make our own choices. civilization & technology is not "evil"

  • oh, and lions eat their young, by the way

  • i'm not sure what that has to do with this conversation. and clearly they don't, like civilization does, exterminate entire populations.

    why has this video made you so angry, krepta?

  • well, you compared social order to that of whales and lions. so that's what that was.

    there's nothing wrong with the video. i actually liked it in general. it was just your comment on industrial civilization. it's like a knife, which is a tool. it can be used to cut your food, or fabrics, etc, or it can be used to cause harm. but the knife is not to blame. nor is society, technology, industrialization, or capitalism if used responsibly

  • even if you use a broken tool responsibly, it still doesn't work. civilization is flawed at the core--it's based on violence. a building with poor foundations can't be fixed.

  • It's BASED on violence? This must be explained. Flawed, sure. But not broken. Poor, maybe. But suggest something better. Go back to the time where all people were living a "natural" existence. And civilzed society emerged. And people chose it instead, by the thousands, which is why it thrived and still exists today. Sure problems started, but nothing is perfect. Society, like ourselves, is in a state of evolution. Give it time. Help make it better. But don't go running back into the woods

  • and don't blame an abused system for a few frustrations. it's the abusers, not the system, that is to blame. and you say the internet isolates us. yes, if you choose to make that your sole method of connecting with people. but if you use it to Enhance communication, in Addition to the more natural ways mentioned in your video, you can connect with all the more people and in more ways. it's all in the choices You make

  • yes it is based on violence, and i will try to explain in this little box, but for a more in-depth explanation check out derrick jensen's and daniel quinn's and john zerzan's writing (some is online, as well as search youtube for them, as there are interviews). in brief, this culture, the culture of maximum harm, values profit and production over life and health. (cont.)

  • it is based on perpetual (unsustainable) growth that requires the extraction of resources (i.e. life) in the form of human labor, trees, water, minerals, fossil fuels, etc. to make the people at the top of the pyramid wealthy(one in six people on the planet don't have clean water, which is humanity's birthright). extracting those resources requires violence, as we have seen throughout history. people do not give up their lives or livelihoods without a fight.

  • people didn't choose civilization. they were forced into it by people with more resources and brute force (e.g. the romans). they fought it tooth and nail, as history shows. give it time? help make it better? people have been doing that for ages, and the harm only accelerates. we have lost 90% of the big fish in the sea, almost all of the old growth forest. our environments and bodies are a toxic soup--almost everyone in n. america has teflon, plastic, and at least 16 pesticides in their blood.

  • Historically, Civilization, is based on survival. Protection rather than destruction. As you would tell it.

    The social animals of Earth adapted their behavior because together they are more successful. Humans are a perfect example. We had to band together as we were unable to compete alone.

    Building on that same principle for thousands of years you get our "global tribe" which is still clinging to culture to survive. We DO choose it. Hopefully we wise up about our present practices.

  • i don't choose it, nomad

    i feel forced into it

    i don't see that there is a choice--if you live in the system, you are part of the system

    human beings work best in groups of 50-150, not groups of 6 billion--this current culture, the culture of maximum harm, is taking us (and the animals and plants and ecosystems who depend on us for their well being) out if we don't stop agreeing to it

  • I see some truth in what you say, but am not sold on the whole enchilada. Without question, modern civilization is doing far too much damage to the planet to continue on the path we seem to be on.

  • Howerver, You DO choose to be part of it; so do I, and so too everyone we have both ever met.

    You ~could~ choose to remove yourself right now. If you truly wanted to. You always have the choice. Now, the means and will are not always at hand. Nor is the ability to see that, also, isn't a given for most either.

    For example, there are still many tribal societies that still exist. They choose not to join civilization. They are "in the system" only as much as they wish it.

  • you can't choose to remove yourself, nomad. the only people who say that are the ones who haven't tried, and would like to keep believing that illusion.

    the (endangered) tribal societies that still exist are fighting against the encroachment of civilization, and yes they don't want to be a part of it, but they are being swallowed up as we speak, to be exploited for their resources

    i was not born in a tribal society. i was born in industrial civilization. it was not a choice

  • I'm with you, penniless. If I wanted to live in a tribal civilization, who would it be with? If I found people to live with me, where would we go? Besides, finding people who aren't "scared" of nature in this country is practically impossible. Getting them to do it might involve implanting tv's and computers in the trees. I want to remove myself from it, it's not easy. Tried living in campgrounds once. You have to PAY. If I don't work in our messed up society- no MONEY. Find me free berries.

  • yeah people in industrial civilization are raised & trained to be greedy & self-centered, rewarded--jack abramhoff is the poster child

    & i totally hear you, & feel that way too, & yet feel it's incumbent on us to try--like, if we can move away from the madness & toward sanity the best we can, it will be a bit easier for the next generation to take the next step...until some day a baby will be born into a community where he isn't terrorized into being a cog in the machine from his first breath

  • we can choose, however, and i mean *we,* not an individual, to refuse to agree to the false agreements that hold this destructive system in place.

    but an individual cannot survive without a supportive community, and a truly supportive, sustainable community cannot exist within a culture based on violence.

    in 21st century slavery, the slaves think they are free--it's easier and cheaper to control people through their minds than to control them physically.

  • those comforts come at a price many of us aren't even aware of

    they certainly come at a price for the other people and creatures we share the planet with

    i didn't say industrial civilization and technology are 'evil.' they are harmful. they are unsustainable. and they plain long don't work, if you define 'working' as creating healthy people and healthy communities.

    (if, however, you define 'working' as amassing wealth for a certain percentage at the top of the pyramid, then they work.)

  • Good to know

  • I really like the plain and simple explanation you give. It's a great starter for those who've just begun to be aware of these things. Too bad we get only 500 characters and a couple inches of space, here, so I'll just use it to thank you.

    I'm going to send the YouTube lind to this video off ot several people.

    Nice work, PC.

  • youtube is one I can think of, so many good thoughts and minds, all kept apart with miles of wire in between them.

  • yes when you look at it closely it's very frustrating, tragic even

    yet it's what we have for now, sadly

  • wow