How in the name of sanity does one make it to the Olympics with a beam routine like this? The bent legs and knees, the leaps....yikes. As an American I was rooting for our girls, but I remember watching it at the time and feeling enormously EMBARRASSED. I can't believe they let her do beam.
Chelle was absolutely adorable but I cannot believe that that Bela and Martha let her, and all their other gymnasts, go out there with such terrible form! Why would they not fix something like that? Those bent knees and flexed feet just drive me nuts.
That series today would have had bent leg deductions, unpointed toe deductions. About 0.7, if not more on that series alone. The only good thing about it was that her chest was upright straight away, only because she "split" her legs when she saw the beam.
I never understood how this kid made it s far as the olympics. If Rhonda Faehn or Kristie Phillips had been on the team, the US would have easily taken the bronze. T
I used to think the same thing, and that is because her best events were never televised. Chelle was poor on beam, but her other events at Seoul averaged almost 9.837, more than what the other could have acheived. Rhonda in international competition couldnt score over 9.8 on any event. Kristie sucked on three of the four events and sucked in compulsories as well. Chelle was the right choice
True... I hadn't really thought of it that way. I couldn't get past her poor form on beam. However, her 1988 floor routine was one of my favorites. Her music and routines later on were a little over the top for me. I did see her perform in La Nouba! It was awesome.
Her beam was a wash for the team...I think Bela knew that, but she was so strong on the other three events, that she was an asset to the team. And the TV only showed her on beam and bars so the viewer got a slighted view of her, she was awesome on floor and vault, as well as bars. However, where a gymnast like Chelle becomes a doubt is when the other gymnasts dont hit their routines, and her scores become crucial as they did in Seoul. Her bars compulsory fall and low beam scores did hurt us
@Tamilyn313 Nope. Rhonda was horrible in compulsories and you Kristie's compulsories, given she had grown a big ass, were not strong either. Kristie was only better on beam, and Rhonda was not better than Chelle on any event, her beam was about equal. Everyone made a big deal about Rhonda's vaulting, yet she never scored over 9.8 internationally on it, and fucked the US out of a 1991 Pan Am vault title and a 1988 Oympic bronze medal. Thanks, Rhonda!
The irony is that the chreo work on beam would look lovely ona gymnast who has better presentation skills and flexiblity, like say Grace Taylor or Corey Hartung.
One thing I never liked about her beam routines were those sudden jerked movements that were changes in direction. Those half turns and quarter turns in there with jerky arm movements often looked like slight balance adjustments and affected the slow. Also, as we all know, she gave away .3 in form deductions. That first pass should have just been a tuck back and that Gaynor layout should have been a Gaynor tuck back. She would have received a higher score with those simple changes, duh~
Yeah. Nothing against the gymnast herself - but Bela's methods were targeted so very very few gymnasts could survive under the harshness both mentally and physically. Also, How did Marta become "the beam coach"? Most of the girls were mentally stable on beam but where's the impeccable form and choreo to rival other countries?
There is absolutely no poignancy or dominion to this routine. It's as if she is going though the motions. It is very mechanical and the form is errant. A 9.675 is very generous. The form breaks are everywhere! They are noticeable in the simple skills! How can you say the USA was underscored? Also, stop claiming that there was an Eastern Bloc alliance...the USA had its own coalition with CAN, ISR, GBR, FRG, ESP, etc. The USA has so much leverage in the Olympics and global sports.
I consider people's claim that USA deserved a medal at the 1988 Olympics as ludicrous. Absolutely ridiculous when you take into account the fact that their routines were not captivating and were not well executed.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Ridiculous! Metsdudenj continually shoots "itself" on the foot with irrational and pointless comments.
To undermine the vested interest and vast contributions of Socialist nations to gymnastics by associating their achievements to corruption and exhange of money is absurd!
The USA, corporate television and media conglomerates are the ones after the profit and tv ratings!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
People have to be inconsequential and gullible to say that the USA does not have the most clout in global sports & the Olympics. To claim that the USA was shortchanged and didn't form alliances of their own with countries like FRG, CAN, ISR, GBR, FRA, etc. is a distortion of facts. The IOC and FIG bend over backwards for the USA for financial reasons! The USA was not adequately scrutinized for bad form and routines that were solid acrobatically speaking but lacked poignancy.
The USA does not have clout and didnt have clout in that time, when the Eastern Bloc controlled everything behind the scenes; I am sure the Soviets and East Germans paid the other countries or donated funds to make sure they got positive judging from Bulgaria, Hungary, Czech republic, and probably some of the western countries as well, just like in ice skating
But they didnt need to cheat to do that,and neither did the USA, the communist countries would always support other communist and likewise with the capitalist countries....its just common sense....
The big picture & larger context: the judging panels were diversified ("Western" judges formed alliances such as USA, CAN, GBR, JPN, ISR, etc.) and the Eastern Bloc judges were somewhat divisive. Ellen Berger was not popular with Western judges, the Romanians and Bulgarians and could certainly not dictate the outcome of an event. The USA benefitted from a meet that in general was overscored and from competing in the last sessions of compulsories & optionals (scores are arbitrarily elevated).
I consider people's claim that USA deserved a medal at the 1988 Olympics as ludicrous. Absolutely ridiculous when you take into account the fact that their routines were not captivating and were not well executed.
I am not sure to whose comments you are replying. I would not say 'USA should have won a medal' however, living in the U.S., am opposed to 'anti-Americanism'
especially in terms of the gymnasts. It is unfair to rudely attack the gymnasts, no matter who you judge to be the best. The competition was practially 20 years ago, and if you have any bitterness, it would be personally helpful of you to let it go.
The big picture & larger context: the judging panels were diversified ("Western" judges formed alliances such as USA, CAN, GBR, JPN, ISR, etc.) and the Eastern Bloc judges were somewhat divisive. Ellen Berger was not popular with Western judges, the Romanians and Bulgarians and could certainly not dictate the outcome of an event. The USA benefitted from a meet that in general was overscored and from competing in the last sessions of compulsories & optionals (scores are arbitrarily elevated).
The alliances didnt help at all, because many times the Belgian, razil and Israel judges were severe on the US athletes, obvioulsy not as cruel as Bulgaria, East Germany and Romania, but they did consistenly low ball the US scores. There is something wrong when one judges is over .2 lower that all the other judges. Wake up and smell the coffee!
People have to be inconsequential and gullible to say that the USA does not have the most clout in global sports & the Olympics. To claim that the USA was shortchanged and didn't form alliances of their own with countries like FRG, CAN, ISR, GBR, FRA, etc. is a distortion of facts. The IOC and FIG bend over backwards for the USA for financial reasons! The USA was not adequately scrutinized for bad form and routines that were solid acrobatically speaking but lacked poignancy.
elamantebilingue-- S.T.F.U. already! Denial is not a river in Egypt. Let it go already! Anyone with any grasp on reality recognizes that the East Germans did NOT deserve that bronze medal (or even 4th place, for that matter). If the USA had the clout that you claim, then the Ellen Berger deduction would not have happened in the first place.
Why do you continue to push the point? Do you have that little to do with your life?!
Well said, hmlilly. Most people are watching because they love gymnastics, not to listen to a bitter person with nothing better to do than find US performances and post anti-American comments. I can't comprehend anyone holding so much hostility about this competition, unless 'elamente' is a Bulgarian gymnast. But I seriously doubt it.
There is absolutely no poignancy or dominion to this routine. It's as if she is going though the motions. It is very mechanical and the form is errant. A 9.675 is very generous. The form breaks are everywhere! They are noticeable in the simple skills! How can you say the USA was underscored? Also, stop claiming that there was an Eastern Bloc alliance...the USA had its own coalition with CAN, ISR, GBR, FRG, ESP, etc. The USA has so much leverage in the Olympics and global sports.
"el mante" must be an east german judge. The East Germans were sickly overscored, and the Bulgarians were sloppy in compulsaries. That is why they missed the bronze medal. The US had no leverage in Seoul, had that been the case, we would have won the bronze by over a point. Hmlilly is a brilliant analysis which coupled with mine, proves that an "academic socialist" such as elmantebiligue keeps reciting crap from the communist gymnast manifesto.
You stand corrected "hmlilly" (you are probably used to that...). I absolutely feel that BUL should have won the bronze, GDR in 4th and USA a distant 5th or 6th. The sport is ARTISTIC GYMNASTICS not solid acrobatics. I wouldn't have deducted .5 from USA for the UB podium debacle but would've scrutinized their lack of poignant gymnastics & enthralling artistry. BUL and GDR performed in the 1st session of TC and USA were in the last in both TC and TO where the scores are elevated.
Suffice to say the BULGARIANS deserved the bronze medal. That is indisputable. People can be so myopic when they want to...maintaining that the USA was underscored and cheated of a medal is preposterous. Realize that gymnastics is about dynamicism fused with artistry, poignancy and exquisite form. The Bulgarians were magnificent, the GDR was in a dilemma without a gymnast but still had some pretty riveting routines and the USA was characterized by unrefined routines with bad form.
There is absolutely no poignancy or dominion to this routine. It's as if she is going though the motions. It is very mechanical and the form is errant. A 9.675 is very generous. The form breaks are everywhere! They are noticeable in the simple skills! How can you say the USA was underscored? Also, stop claiming that there was an Eastern Bloc alliance...the USA had its own coalition with CAN, ISR, GBR, FRG, ESP, etc. The USA has so much leverage in the Olympics and global sports.
"The USA has so much leverage in the Olympics and global sports."
Not in gymnastics, and not in 1988.
I agree that this particular routine received a generous score, but the American gymnasts were grotesquely underscored on floor and vault.
The Americans had a double layout, SIX full-ins, and numerous other double backs. Four East Germans mounted with double backs and dismounted with double twists. Somehow, the East Germans equalled the U.S. total on optional floor.
The Bulgarians had spectacular routines with enthralling choreography on FX. Their routines had full-ins, triple twists and the occasional double layout. You mention the supposed difficulty of the USA but their choreography was uninspiring and their double tucks were usually tuck/piked which is the epitome of bad form. I only saw Doerte Thuemmler and Dagmar Kersten from GDR on floor and they each opened with full ins and dismounted with double tucks that means that your stats are incorrect.
Sorry, hon. My stats ARE correct. You conveniently omit the FX routines of Fahnrich and Schiefferdecker. Both mounted with double backs. Both dismounted with double twists. They scored 9.625 and 9.800, respectively. Compare that with the marvelous FX of Soviet Elena Shevchenko, who scored only 9.850 in comparison.
You also neglect to mention that Kersten landed low on the full-in she barely managed to pull around.
Oh... and did you notice that by mentioning the Bulgarians' excellent performances, you only serve to highlight even MORE how extremely the East Germans were overscored?
Dudeva and Vodenitcharova showed difficulty and choreography light years beyond that of Thuemmler and Kersten. Somehow, Thuemmler outscored them both; Kersten wasn't too far behind.
Thank you for assisting me in proving my point, elamantebilingue! I appreciate the help!
The Americans were also raped on the vault. All six gymnasts vaulted layout Yurchenko-fulls. The East Germans used vaults more often seen in the 1970s, some even using a simple layout Tsukahara. Still, the East Germans outscored the U.S. on vault optionals by 0.225.
The U.S.G.F. had a video of EVERY performance in optionals from the top six teams. It was a great approach-- they had 4 people around the arena with a video camera who stayed on one event. After all was compiled, the tape had EVERY optional performance of the top six teams! It was great!
Where does one get that video, I am missing Marlowe and Stack on floor, Spivey on beam, Several floor compulsary routines and many of the optional vaults!
My suggestion would be to contact USA Gymnastics and see if they have any left in stock.
I don't know much about how to post on You Tube (bit of a computer illiterate here), but I'll check with some techie friends to see if one can post from VHS to You Tube.
I feel very sorry for the girls on that US team and Rhonda Faehn; I can only imagine how awful she felt. And whoever said Chelle's routine wasn't fluid obviously didn't notice how she never stopped moving the whole time and didn't pause between skills. On antoher note, I find it odd that Bela Karolyi was so adamant on his gymnasts being "perfect", yet very few of his gymnasts could do layout step-outs without bent knees. (So Chelle's form difficulty really doesn't shock me.)
The GDR were WAY overscored on ALL events. US/western judges probably had no backbone to take a stand to Ellen Berger. The US was appropriately scored in most cases, underscored in some, but never overscored. Bulgarians were underscored in some cases and appropriately scored in some, but never overscored. This was a disgrace on Berger's part and the judges for allowing the GDR to save whatever face they never had and give them a undeserved gift medal.
You are nuts. If you watch the GDR vaults and beam, you will see they are clearly overscored. The GDR got 9.8 and 9.9 for layout vaults with no twist, while Spivey nailed a layout Tschuk and only got a 9.85. Marlowe had a beautiful beam and bars and was clearly underscored. THuemmler always had form breaks and was overscored. THe Bulgarians and Romanians consistenly undescored the US.
People claim that the USA was underscored on UB and BB. That is ludicrous! This mediocre routine got a 9.675! It lacks poise, fluidity and good form! The GDR was underscored on UB: Former world champ Gabrielle Daenrich: 9.875, exquisite Doerte Thuemmler: 9.95, superlative Dagmar Kersten: 9.975. IN ANY CASE THE BULGARIANS DESERVED THE BRONZE AND THE JUDGING PANELS WERE NOT PRO-SOCIALIST COUNTRIES SEVERAL WESTERN/PRO-USA JUDGES WERE A PART OF THE MIX.
The East Germans were WAY overscored in the vault and beam ( three falls!) and didnt deserve the bronze medal by any means. The Americans appealed, but since the jury was dominated by Communist countries, they lost the appeal, lost the .5, and with that, the bronze medal. Anyway, Stack turned in a strong performance in the optionals, all of her other scores averaging over 9.837
This routine scored 9.675. The Americans followed up with five strong routines, several of which were underscored. Unfortunately, the East Germans were on bars in this last rotation, and passed the Americans for third place. This third place was only possible due to Head judge ( East German) Ellen Berger, citing an obscure rule to penalize the Americans .5 in the compulsary round.
The mount of the routine is quite nice but her flips are just bad. Unless a tucked LOSO is an actual skill but I doubt it
agators212 1 month ago
How in the name of sanity does one make it to the Olympics with a beam routine like this? The bent legs and knees, the leaps....yikes. As an American I was rooting for our girls, but I remember watching it at the time and feeling enormously EMBARRASSED. I can't believe they let her do beam.
BoraBoraGirl2001 6 months ago
omg, just look at that back layout :\ poor girl, it wasn't her fault that the coaches didn't do anything to help her get a decent form.
TheDigitalFruit 6 months ago
her complusory was really good though... straight legs and everything
maplepieface 8 months ago
The first 30 seconds of this routine was great ... very fluid and fun to watch. The rest, however, well....it's speaks for itself. :)
DC205504 11 months ago
Chelle was absolutely adorable but I cannot believe that that Bela and Martha let her, and all their other gymnasts, go out there with such terrible form! Why would they not fix something like that? Those bent knees and flexed feet just drive me nuts.
courtneysk8s 1 year ago 4
what a piece of trash
vontrappster 1 year ago
That series today would have had bent leg deductions, unpointed toe deductions. About 0.7, if not more on that series alone. The only good thing about it was that her chest was upright straight away, only because she "split" her legs when she saw the beam.
willsbob123 2 years ago 2
I never understood how this kid made it s far as the olympics. If Rhonda Faehn or Kristie Phillips had been on the team, the US would have easily taken the bronze. T
Tamilyn313 2 years ago 2
I used to think the same thing, and that is because her best events were never televised. Chelle was poor on beam, but her other events at Seoul averaged almost 9.837, more than what the other could have acheived. Rhonda in international competition couldnt score over 9.8 on any event. Kristie sucked on three of the four events and sucked in compulsories as well. Chelle was the right choice
metsdudenj 2 years ago
True... I hadn't really thought of it that way. I couldn't get past her poor form on beam. However, her 1988 floor routine was one of my favorites. Her music and routines later on were a little over the top for me. I did see her perform in La Nouba! It was awesome.
Tamilyn313 2 years ago
Her beam was a wash for the team...I think Bela knew that, but she was so strong on the other three events, that she was an asset to the team. And the TV only showed her on beam and bars so the viewer got a slighted view of her, she was awesome on floor and vault, as well as bars. However, where a gymnast like Chelle becomes a doubt is when the other gymnasts dont hit their routines, and her scores become crucial as they did in Seoul. Her bars compulsory fall and low beam scores did hurt us
metsdudenj 2 years ago 3
@Tamilyn313 Nope. Rhonda sucked on compulsory beam and floor and on optionals as well. She was a two event gymnast; Chelle was a three event gymnast
metsdudenj 1 year ago
@Tamilyn313 Nope. Rhonda was horrible in compulsories and you Kristie's compulsories, given she had grown a big ass, were not strong either. Kristie was only better on beam, and Rhonda was not better than Chelle on any event, her beam was about equal. Everyone made a big deal about Rhonda's vaulting, yet she never scored over 9.8 internationally on it, and fucked the US out of a 1991 Pan Am vault title and a 1988 Oympic bronze medal. Thanks, Rhonda!
metsdudenj 3 months ago
Comment removed
nikirififo 2 years ago
The irony is that the chreo work on beam would look lovely ona gymnast who has better presentation skills and flexiblity, like say Grace Taylor or Corey Hartung.
soapygirl83 2 years ago 3
OMG, the bent legs...in the OLYMPICS? Are you kidding me? I can't believe what I'm seeing in such a high-level competition.
adventuregirl76 2 years ago
I hope those were supposed to be back tuck step outs...
dashagl 2 years ago 3
Very distracting form...and underarm sweat stains
hinginator 3 years ago
If your team was in third place fighting off the Commie Kunts from the DDR, you would be sweating also, or probably wet yourself
metsdudenj 3 years ago
One thing I never liked about her beam routines were those sudden jerked movements that were changes in direction. Those half turns and quarter turns in there with jerky arm movements often looked like slight balance adjustments and affected the slow. Also, as we all know, she gave away .3 in form deductions. That first pass should have just been a tuck back and that Gaynor layout should have been a Gaynor tuck back. She would have received a higher score with those simple changes, duh~
metsdudenj 3 years ago 2
Reminds me of Eberle or Morgan White. Anyway, she looks like she had fun.
Vermontist 3 years ago
wow, she really bends her legs...
okhan001 3 years ago
horrible form
fcavalheiro 3 years ago 3
Oh goodness that was painful to watch.
TuesdayPillow 3 years ago 7
another one of bellas burn outs.
eMthegymnast 3 years ago
Yeah. Nothing against the gymnast herself - but Bela's methods were targeted so very very few gymnasts could survive under the harshness both mentally and physically. Also, How did Marta become "the beam coach"? Most of the girls were mentally stable on beam but where's the impeccable form and choreo to rival other countries?
TuesdayPillow 3 years ago 3
Did you know that she actually had a layout pike trained for that first pass, but she haed problems landing it, so they bagged it.
metsdudenj 3 years ago
Has anyone noticed that the BOOB 'elamantebilengue' has reposted its asinine and moronic rant word for word three separate times here?
tightlygagged 4 years ago
the only think I noticed about him/her/it is that he/she/it is an asshole.
metsdudenj 4 years ago
There is absolutely no poignancy or dominion to this routine. It's as if she is going though the motions. It is very mechanical and the form is errant. A 9.675 is very generous. The form breaks are everywhere! They are noticeable in the simple skills! How can you say the USA was underscored? Also, stop claiming that there was an Eastern Bloc alliance...the USA had its own coalition with CAN, ISR, GBR, FRG, ESP, etc. The USA has so much leverage in the Olympics and global sports.
elamantebilingue 4 years ago
I consider people's claim that USA deserved a medal at the 1988 Olympics as ludicrous. Absolutely ridiculous when you take into account the fact that their routines were not captivating and were not well executed.
VictoriaAbrilenAtame 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ridiculous! Metsdudenj continually shoots "itself" on the foot with irrational and pointless comments.
To undermine the vested interest and vast contributions of Socialist nations to gymnastics by associating their achievements to corruption and exhange of money is absurd!
The USA, corporate television and media conglomerates are the ones after the profit and tv ratings!
HugoBossSuperModel 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
People have to be inconsequential and gullible to say that the USA does not have the most clout in global sports & the Olympics. To claim that the USA was shortchanged and didn't form alliances of their own with countries like FRG, CAN, ISR, GBR, FRA, etc. is a distortion of facts. The IOC and FIG bend over backwards for the USA for financial reasons! The USA was not adequately scrutinized for bad form and routines that were solid acrobatically speaking but lacked poignancy.
elamantebilingue 4 years ago
The USA does not have clout and didnt have clout in that time, when the Eastern Bloc controlled everything behind the scenes; I am sure the Soviets and East Germans paid the other countries or donated funds to make sure they got positive judging from Bulgaria, Hungary, Czech republic, and probably some of the western countries as well, just like in ice skating
metsdudenj 4 years ago
But they didnt need to cheat to do that,and neither did the USA, the communist countries would always support other communist and likewise with the capitalist countries....its just common sense....
tomsk14 4 years ago 3
She was my coach.
ha, the other day she got on the bars and did giants for the fisrt time in 10 years.
:]
i miss her.
i'm on leave from an injury.
xitsashahhleex3 4 years ago 2
The big picture & larger context: the judging panels were diversified ("Western" judges formed alliances such as USA, CAN, GBR, JPN, ISR, etc.) and the Eastern Bloc judges were somewhat divisive. Ellen Berger was not popular with Western judges, the Romanians and Bulgarians and could certainly not dictate the outcome of an event. The USA benefitted from a meet that in general was overscored and from competing in the last sessions of compulsories & optionals (scores are arbitrarily elevated).
elamantebilingue 4 years ago
I consider people's claim that USA deserved a medal at the 1988 Olympics as ludicrous. Absolutely ridiculous when you take into account the fact that their routines were not captivating and were not well executed.
VictoriaAbrilenAtame 4 years ago
I am not sure to whose comments you are replying. I would not say 'USA should have won a medal' however, living in the U.S., am opposed to 'anti-Americanism'
especially in terms of the gymnasts. It is unfair to rudely attack the gymnasts, no matter who you judge to be the best. The competition was practially 20 years ago, and if you have any bitterness, it would be personally helpful of you to let it go.
catalina1inaustin 4 years ago 3
The big picture & larger context: the judging panels were diversified ("Western" judges formed alliances such as USA, CAN, GBR, JPN, ISR, etc.) and the Eastern Bloc judges were somewhat divisive. Ellen Berger was not popular with Western judges, the Romanians and Bulgarians and could certainly not dictate the outcome of an event. The USA benefitted from a meet that in general was overscored and from competing in the last sessions of compulsories & optionals (scores are arbitrarily elevated).
elamantebilingue 4 years ago
The alliances didnt help at all, because many times the Belgian, razil and Israel judges were severe on the US athletes, obvioulsy not as cruel as Bulgaria, East Germany and Romania, but they did consistenly low ball the US scores. There is something wrong when one judges is over .2 lower that all the other judges. Wake up and smell the coffee!
metsdudenj 4 years ago
People have to be inconsequential and gullible to say that the USA does not have the most clout in global sports & the Olympics. To claim that the USA was shortchanged and didn't form alliances of their own with countries like FRG, CAN, ISR, GBR, FRA, etc. is a distortion of facts. The IOC and FIG bend over backwards for the USA for financial reasons! The USA was not adequately scrutinized for bad form and routines that were solid acrobatically speaking but lacked poignancy.
elamantebilingue 4 years ago
elamantebilingue-- S.T.F.U. already! Denial is not a river in Egypt. Let it go already! Anyone with any grasp on reality recognizes that the East Germans did NOT deserve that bronze medal (or even 4th place, for that matter). If the USA had the clout that you claim, then the Ellen Berger deduction would not have happened in the first place.
Why do you continue to push the point? Do you have that little to do with your life?!
hmlilly 4 years ago 3
Well said, hmlilly. Most people are watching because they love gymnastics, not to listen to a bitter person with nothing better to do than find US performances and post anti-American comments. I can't comprehend anyone holding so much hostility about this competition, unless 'elamente' is a Bulgarian gymnast. But I seriously doubt it.
catalina1inaustin 4 years ago 2
There is absolutely no poignancy or dominion to this routine. It's as if she is going though the motions. It is very mechanical and the form is errant. A 9.675 is very generous. The form breaks are everywhere! They are noticeable in the simple skills! How can you say the USA was underscored? Also, stop claiming that there was an Eastern Bloc alliance...the USA had its own coalition with CAN, ISR, GBR, FRG, ESP, etc. The USA has so much leverage in the Olympics and global sports.
elamantebilingue 4 years ago
You've been refuted on all of these points several times over. If you just want to hear yourself talk, by all means go right ahead.
hmlilly 4 years ago
"el mante" must be an east german judge. The East Germans were sickly overscored, and the Bulgarians were sloppy in compulsaries. That is why they missed the bronze medal. The US had no leverage in Seoul, had that been the case, we would have won the bronze by over a point. Hmlilly is a brilliant analysis which coupled with mine, proves that an "academic socialist" such as elmantebiligue keeps reciting crap from the communist gymnast manifesto.
metsdudenj 4 years ago
You stand corrected "hmlilly" (you are probably used to that...). I absolutely feel that BUL should have won the bronze, GDR in 4th and USA a distant 5th or 6th. The sport is ARTISTIC GYMNASTICS not solid acrobatics. I wouldn't have deducted .5 from USA for the UB podium debacle but would've scrutinized their lack of poignant gymnastics & enthralling artistry. BUL and GDR performed in the 1st session of TC and USA were in the last in both TC and TO where the scores are elevated.
elamantebilingue 4 years ago
Suffice to say the BULGARIANS deserved the bronze medal. That is indisputable. People can be so myopic when they want to...maintaining that the USA was underscored and cheated of a medal is preposterous. Realize that gymnastics is about dynamicism fused with artistry, poignancy and exquisite form. The Bulgarians were magnificent, the GDR was in a dilemma without a gymnast but still had some pretty riveting routines and the USA was characterized by unrefined routines with bad form.
elamantebilingue 4 years ago
What's up with the bent knees?!?!
dzzz80 4 years ago
There is absolutely no poignancy or dominion to this routine. It's as if she is going though the motions. It is very mechanical and the form is errant. A 9.675 is very generous. The form breaks are everywhere! They are noticeable in the simple skills! How can you say the USA was underscored? Also, stop claiming that there was an Eastern Bloc alliance...the USA had its own coalition with CAN, ISR, GBR, FRG, ESP, etc. The USA has so much leverage in the Olympics and global sports.
elamantebilingue 4 years ago
"The USA has so much leverage in the Olympics and global sports."
Not in gymnastics, and not in 1988.
I agree that this particular routine received a generous score, but the American gymnasts were grotesquely underscored on floor and vault.
The Americans had a double layout, SIX full-ins, and numerous other double backs. Four East Germans mounted with double backs and dismounted with double twists. Somehow, the East Germans equalled the U.S. total on optional floor.
hmlilly 4 years ago 3
The Bulgarians had spectacular routines with enthralling choreography on FX. Their routines had full-ins, triple twists and the occasional double layout. You mention the supposed difficulty of the USA but their choreography was uninspiring and their double tucks were usually tuck/piked which is the epitome of bad form. I only saw Doerte Thuemmler and Dagmar Kersten from GDR on floor and they each opened with full ins and dismounted with double tucks that means that your stats are incorrect.
elamantebilingue 4 years ago
Sorry, hon. My stats ARE correct. You conveniently omit the FX routines of Fahnrich and Schiefferdecker. Both mounted with double backs. Both dismounted with double twists. They scored 9.625 and 9.800, respectively. Compare that with the marvelous FX of Soviet Elena Shevchenko, who scored only 9.850 in comparison.
You also neglect to mention that Kersten landed low on the full-in she barely managed to pull around.
You hate the Americans, WE GET IT!
hmlilly 4 years ago
Oh... and did you notice that by mentioning the Bulgarians' excellent performances, you only serve to highlight even MORE how extremely the East Germans were overscored?
Dudeva and Vodenitcharova showed difficulty and choreography light years beyond that of Thuemmler and Kersten. Somehow, Thuemmler outscored them both; Kersten wasn't too far behind.
Thank you for assisting me in proving my point, elamantebilingue! I appreciate the help!
hmlilly 4 years ago 2
The Americans were also raped on the vault. All six gymnasts vaulted layout Yurchenko-fulls. The East Germans used vaults more often seen in the 1970s, some even using a simple layout Tsukahara. Still, the East Germans outscored the U.S. on vault optionals by 0.225.
Sick, just sick.
hmlilly 4 years ago
GDR was overscored on every event but bars, end of story.
Schiefferdecker fell on the beam and still got a 9.50; Kersten and Thuemmler fell off and got 9.40.
hmlilly 4 years ago 2
Thank you for finally clarifying what I have been saying for years! i wasnt aware theat Schefierdecker fell off, where is that routine televised?
metsdudenj 4 years ago
I can't find a video clip of it anywhere, but International Gymnast Magazine reported it at the time.
hmlilly 4 years ago
The U.S.G.F. had a video of EVERY performance in optionals from the top six teams. It was a great approach-- they had 4 people around the arena with a video camera who stayed on one event. After all was compiled, the tape had EVERY optional performance of the top six teams! It was great!
hmlilly 4 years ago
Where does one get that video, I am missing Marlowe and Stack on floor, Spivey on beam, Several floor compulsary routines and many of the optional vaults!
metsdudenj 4 years ago
My suggestion would be to contact USA Gymnastics and see if they have any left in stock.
I don't know much about how to post on You Tube (bit of a computer illiterate here), but I'll check with some techie friends to see if one can post from VHS to You Tube.
hmlilly 4 years ago
How the fuck did Schiefferdecker get that score with a FALL???? No one protested that score?
metsdudenj 3 years ago
I feel very sorry for the girls on that US team and Rhonda Faehn; I can only imagine how awful she felt. And whoever said Chelle's routine wasn't fluid obviously didn't notice how she never stopped moving the whole time and didn't pause between skills. On antoher note, I find it odd that Bela Karolyi was so adamant on his gymnasts being "perfect", yet very few of his gymnasts could do layout step-outs without bent knees. (So Chelle's form difficulty really doesn't shock me.)
HeyButtahfly 4 years ago
The GDR were WAY overscored on ALL events. US/western judges probably had no backbone to take a stand to Ellen Berger. The US was appropriately scored in most cases, underscored in some, but never overscored. Bulgarians were underscored in some cases and appropriately scored in some, but never overscored. This was a disgrace on Berger's part and the judges for allowing the GDR to save whatever face they never had and give them a undeserved gift medal.
miloandtock1 4 years ago 3
You are nuts. If you watch the GDR vaults and beam, you will see they are clearly overscored. The GDR got 9.8 and 9.9 for layout vaults with no twist, while Spivey nailed a layout Tschuk and only got a 9.85. Marlowe had a beautiful beam and bars and was clearly underscored. THuemmler always had form breaks and was overscored. THe Bulgarians and Romanians consistenly undescored the US.
metsdudenj 4 years ago 2
People claim that the USA was underscored on UB and BB. That is ludicrous! This mediocre routine got a 9.675! It lacks poise, fluidity and good form! The GDR was underscored on UB: Former world champ Gabrielle Daenrich: 9.875, exquisite Doerte Thuemmler: 9.95, superlative Dagmar Kersten: 9.975. IN ANY CASE THE BULGARIANS DESERVED THE BRONZE AND THE JUDGING PANELS WERE NOT PRO-SOCIALIST COUNTRIES SEVERAL WESTERN/PRO-USA JUDGES WERE A PART OF THE MIX.
elamantebilingue 4 years ago
The East Germans were WAY overscored in the vault and beam ( three falls!) and didnt deserve the bronze medal by any means. The Americans appealed, but since the jury was dominated by Communist countries, they lost the appeal, lost the .5, and with that, the bronze medal. Anyway, Stack turned in a strong performance in the optionals, all of her other scores averaging over 9.837
metsdudenj 5 years ago 3
This routine scored 9.675. The Americans followed up with five strong routines, several of which were underscored. Unfortunately, the East Germans were on bars in this last rotation, and passed the Americans for third place. This third place was only possible due to Head judge ( East German) Ellen Berger, citing an obscure rule to penalize the Americans .5 in the compulsary round.
metsdudenj 5 years ago 2
hey olegushka :) thanks for uploading this video but could you upload more videos of chelle stack?
mandalejandrino 5 years ago
i know hr not lieing
Qtwitdemeye 5 years ago
Layout-form could obviously be better, but I like the coreography and she has that perky charm to her movements...
svetaswan 5 years ago