Day9 on Math Education

[Adu767]

I really wish they didn't say things like that. Instead of saying "you can't do it", they should say "that's further along" or "you'll get to that later". If they insist, then you can tell them how to do it. If they find it confusing as hell, then they'll be happier to work with simpler concepts. If they do understand it, then you have a very precocious child on your hands...

[FrontyardFlatground]

@starkiller187  southern california*

[terrait]

Did he study mathematics

[TrueEmergence]

@terrait He has a master's in statistical math.

[terrait]

@TrueEmergence Thanks for making that clear

[TrueEmergence]

@terrait I totally lied, sorry, "Day[9] holds a B.S. in Mathematics from Harvey Mudd College and a Master of Fine Arts in Interactive Media from the School of Cinematic Arts at the University of Southern California."

day9.tv/about/

He said at some point he was shooting for a masters in statistical math, I was just a bit confused.

[forumrabbit]

In America, your English teachers facepalm your math teachers as it's shortened to maths from mathematics.

[TrueEmergence]

@forumrabbit I've never heard it refereed to as "maths" by teachers where I'm from.

[Bomiheko2]

@TrueEmergence I think maths is a european thing

[katsumorymoto]

the latest horizon of math involves taking the square root of negative numbers.

the farthest we've explored this dynamic is with something like: e^ix=cos(x)- isin(x)

so performing imaginary compound interest formulas that would seem like they go on into infinity are actually just a synchronized cycle with which numbers as a concept shift in and out of existing. it's this type of math horizon that can probably be used to "solve" music one day.

[BrotherOfFlamingMeal]

@katsumorymoto it's +isin(x), not -isin(x)

[starkiller187]

But is NP in P?

[starkiller187]

Negative number introduction in 7th grade? Glad I don't live in kansas.

[paulo1ftw]

You don't need to know about "Rational numbers" in first grade, so you ignore them. You don't need to know about everything including in "Real numbers" in second grade. You don't need to learn about "Complex numbers" 'till later still. Imagine if u told a primary school child about De Moivre's theorem or the fundamental theorem of algebra to a person just learning quadratics? That's why you don't.

[TrueEmergence]

@paulo1ftw There's a difference between "We can't talk about that now." and "You can't do that."

[paulo1ftw]

@TrueEmergence Which one's easier and less likely to spiral into an unecessary conversation tho? :D

[TrueEmergence]

@paulo1ftw By "unnecessary conversation" do you mean "honest teaching"?

[paulo1ftw]

@TrueEmergence Honest teaching often isn't what u need to pass your exams. You need to know what you need to know... beyond that, sure u can ask teachers / lecturers in ur spare time, or even look it up urself. For the purpose of designated teaching hours, it's far easier to just say "you can't do that."

[TrueEmergence]

@paulo1ftw So you're just saying our school system isn't about education. That's basically the point of this critique, that the "educational" system has some horrible tenancies.

[paulo1ftw]

@TrueEmergence hmm... i suppose so, actually. It's more about making sure you don't trip over ridiculously slippery and ambiguously worded questions more than anything... i remember back in college, my teachers told me it was pointless memorizing the periodic table. Well, needless to say it wasn't ;)

[TrueEmergence]

@paulo1ftw Indeed. It's all about what's good for individuals and their education. I think the education system is broken on a fundamental level. Regardless, I've learned some damn good things in college, but middleschool only ever did me harm.

[BlueBoxSC2]

Actually, Day[9]. negative numbers are real. <3

[Zuphix]

First grade maths sounds like they're counting everything to the power 1/2. That's the only time negative numbers aren't real :D .

[boreduser12]

"It depends" is the answer to all of life's questions.

[kijorr]

It is actually a pretty good point he is making. I think it actually discourages a lot of people from learning math. You are also told that you cant take the square root of a negative number until you learn about complex numbers:(

[Te4RHyP3]

sort of explains why i didn't like learning math as a wee shit

[cwjdog57]

EXACTLY!

[TheAtheologian]

Favorited for the end.

[baggerbags]

derp root -16 doesnt exist.

[klash158]

@baggerbags it does. root -16 is 4i. where i is an imaginary number and i^2 is equal to -1.

[baggerbags]

@klash158 Did ya see the DERP?

[klash158]

@baggerbags i did. but i didnt know i had to keep it real for ya. sorry i was irrational.

[baggerbags]

@klash158 Dont worry bout it man, we all get irrational every now and again e?

[MrBoosay]

I think all lessons from anybody should start with the day9 "Did you know?"

[TrueEmergence]

@MrBoosay It's the new "DID YOU KNOW THAT?" from Bill Nye the Science Guy

[DeltaForceOfficial]

isnt inifinity minus inifinity just zero?

[TrueEmergence]

@DeltaForceOfficial It would have to be a constant, and that's not always the case.

[DeltaForceOfficial]

@TrueEmergence if infinity==infinity then infinity - infinity == 0

the subject hasnt been discussed in my maths class (yet) but this seems to be the only 'logical' solution

[TrueEmergence]

@DeltaForceOfficial Well, again, infinity isn't a constant. Do a bit of googling :]

[MrArldo]

@TrueEmergence infinity - infinity = infinity

[Balo168]

@DeltaForceOfficial infinity - infinity is indeterminate

[irsheft]

@DeltaForceOfficial Infinity doesn't obey the normal laws of numbers. When comparing two series, one can have a "bigger" infinity than the other, because it approaches infinity faster. If you take the limit of an infinite series divided by another infinite series, you come up with one of three results:

1. Infinity (the top series is "bigger")

2. A constant like 3/2 (they approach infinity at a proportional rate)

3. Zero (the bottom series is "bigger")

[DeltaForceOfficial]

@irsheft thnx for clearing that up :) you saved my calc teacher alot of time i suppose

[246trinitrotoluene]

@DeltaForceOfficial infinity - infinity is not defined not 0.

infinity is an impossible to understand. it just keeps on going forever

infinity - infinity is not saying every single number minus every single number, because those numbers never stop going... which in the case of sums, would = 0, but using sums (of x for example) those are defined concepts.

i hope you get what im trying to say

[firemblemrules9]

@DeltaForceOfficial Infinity doesn't always = infinity though, which may sound stupid but its true. For example, the the distance between zero and infinity is infinity. The distance between negative infinity and infinity is still infinity. However, in that example, the second infinity is fairly clearly "greater" just because it contains a larger set of numbers. Because there's no way to accurately define the quantity of any given infinity, it won't always equal itself. Hope I helped. :3

[Enigm0id]

@DeltaForceOfficial In calculus you learn about indeterminate forms. When infinity - infinity is expressed with limits, it is meaningless. It requires special simplification to be evaluated correctly. infinity-infinity could be e, 1, etc. depending on the equation.

The same applies to other math "paradoxes" like 0/0, 0*infinity, infinity/infinity, infinity^0, 1^infinity, or 0^infinity. And there are different infinities; infinity doesn't always equal infinity.

[GetOutsideMr]

@DeltaForceOfficial Lemme Give u an idea of irrationality of infinities. There is a hotel with infinite rooms and a person asks the reception, " Can i have a room please?" Receptionist replies ," its all booked but i can give u a room." so he moves Room 1 person to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and so on. That is just a practical application i showed. Now mathematically, If u take all odd numbers from an infinity, how many is there? Infinite! Now - infinite beyond 3 from infinite = 3.

[IAmConscientious]

@GetOutsideMr I remember playing a fun game called Hotel Infinity

[MirageScience]

@DeltaForceOfficial it depends on the degree of infinity, anyone that tells you something else is bullshitting.

[Balo168]

@MirageScience infinity - infinity = indeterminate

[MirageScience]

@Balo168 no, there are degrees of infinity and numberous was in which they come about. example: lim x->infinity e^x / x^5 this does not come down to 1 as some say infinity / infinity is one, it's not indeterminiate either. = lim x->infinity x^5/e^x = lim x>infinity 5x^4/e^x skip some steps = lim x ->infinity 120/e^x = 0 Notice it was the limit of infinity over infinity yet the function goes to 0. For the same reason infinity - infinity can be any number depending on thier degrees.

[Teeziel]

@DeltaForceOfficial no it is not.

[jackman00110101]

@DeltaForceOfficial Infinity and zero are twin ideas.

[alvingagarino]

@DeltaForceOfficial Some infinities are less than other infinities :O

[irsheft]

The funny thing is, negative numbers are just like imaginary numbers. They only exist to represent a relationship between positive numbers, or to serve as a stepping stone between a problem and a solution. Things in nature like length, mass, magnitude, quantity, etc. can't be negative.

[Balo168]

@irsheft if you describe events by saying x happened at time zero, but y happened before x, you would have a negative time.... when something is decreaseing, you have a negative velocity

[irsheft]

@Balo168 You just gave a perfect example of my point. Negative numbers can only represent the RELATIONSHIP between two positive numbers (hence, the difference between one time and another). We use negative velocity in introductory physics classes because it's convenient, but in reality there is no negative velocity (or acceleration, which is what you probably meant). It's just velocity in the opposite direction.

[irsheft]

@Balo168 Negative numbers are never stand-alone. You can look at a stick and say "this stick is 2 feet long," but good luck finding a stick that's -2 feet long.

[rafie121]

@irsheft then how do you explain justin bieber's P****

[gunha9]

Can I still marry......?

[TaiChiKnees]

Day9, talkin' 'bout math. <3

[SuuupaSugoi]

Why do they do that? Because they're dumb and they don't know how to explain it without confusing the crap out of the kid. That's why.

[RustyTheTroll]

DayJ

[DarcyRyder2010]

Day9

[Kitty4Catz]

Professor[9], god, I wish my maths teacher were like him! :D <3

[Dadrummerdude]

Your back! kind of....