I was always viewed as one of the smart kids from the time I started kindergarten, but now that I have an M.A., I am competing against people who probably shouldn't have gotten degrees, and my resume gets lost in the shuffle. I am now going through an eviction.
@scottandrewhutchins I hear you. Few employers appreciate a Master’s degree in anything other than Business Administration. I got mine in Public Admin, thinking it would be a less competitive market, but no.
@SenatorJPO I'm supposed to be starting a new job with one of my grad school colleagues. He told me Monday that he would meet with me when he came to New York tomorrow, but he still hasn't told me where or what time. My M.A. is in film and media studies, and the fact that prior to my colleague, I had never interviewed for a related position, seemed to mean no one else would hire me, either. I went to an interview last year in which they harped on it, but not until the second interview.
@SenatorJPO He had me put my stuff in storage and take a bus to Jacksonville for a three-month probationary period at $1,500 a month, which is a much more livable income there than it is in NYC. If successful, I will be given a raise an an $800 bonus to help with relocation. I'm currently living in a furnished room in an elderly lady's house, paid for with advances from my salary. On Thursday, I'm supposed to get a used car that will be paid in installments from my paycheck.
@SenatorJPO Which really sucks when you have the medical restrictions that I have. If I were to wait tables, I would surely have a back spasm and give someone a concussion with whatever I were holding.
Most jobs these days ask for multiple skills rather than just one, and so Governments should be encouraging Certificates and Diplomas, rather than Degrees. If one took the wrong subject, then the chance to correct that is less likely for a 4-year degree than a 2-year Diploma - both in terms of time and money.
This isn't lowering educational standards, but applying it in the right places and getting the correct skills to the right people sooner.
The vast majority of work would be better accomplished by workers who were much better trained with an apprenticeship. Skills learned ON THE JOB. It worked very well in the past when people's brains weren't flooded with fluoride and television. Colleges should be seen for what they are. Business's trying to market products. Indoctrination, arrogance and socially acceptable class warfare being just a few of the products for sale. I don't think we need these products any longer.
I entered college intending to get an English degree. Two years in, I took a step back. Although I enjoyed the classes, I noticed that some grad students in the department were still unable to find jobs. I researched options and thought about teaching but, even there, the job outlook was fairly poor. I decided to change my major to something very difficult. I figured if it was hard, few people would do it. I am sooo glad that I did that. Be careful, folks!
@latinamajor I agree major matters allot more than people realize. Colleges often pretend like all majors are equally worth the money. Join a movement to expose the problems with colleges. Type in Reform Higher Education Now in the search box on Facebook
Great video; I think individuals need to be empowered. I have an MBA from the University of phoenix and a masters in organizational management. I am self-employed and work promoting the sales of silver and gold. Not only am I receiving wealth, I am paying of $138,000 for "purchasing" an education. I created my own fortune, no one else has...so visit my youtube video page; I invented my wealth because i am an inventor and tapped into a niche market -- silver and gold investing (over 30,000 leads)
I agree, when the average consumer (college grad / parents) HAVE to take debt for them to loose four years working. That's slavery. "You don't have to go." Right, no one is FORCING anyone to go but evey try getting a job otherwise? Those jobs are pretty good if you live with your parents.
Apprenticeships are hard to get into to. We may have jobs growing but they are federal jobs and NOT production jobs. 1 fed job replaces 2-3 private sector jobs.
1:18 is that the most ugliest old woman you have ever seen. I'm not even joking people her face is freaky. I want to scream, the power of Christ compels you.
What the flying FUCK is wrong with you people??? I would gladly give MOST of my paycheck if I knew it was going towards the education/healthcare etc. of everyone, EVERYONE. WTF does money matter if all we use it for is to by a bunch of BULLSHIT that nobody needs that's just going to go in a landfill eventually anyways. Just look at yourselves! Please try to figure out what's REALLY important, for everyones sake, including your own. Please.
@gragona Science in Programming is worthless because guess what people in India are getting those kinds of degrees by the dozen and well lets just say you're gonna have to basically move to India because that's where your jobs are going. I'm so glade that college taught you how to spell and use proper grammar. You're a perfect example of WHY I don't want you to have any of my money to go to college. I think you should become a ditch digger with that mouth you'd be perfect.
@gragona By the way I'm sure you went to a school like ITT Tech which is a worthless school. You're a joke and by your page and website is clearly the case.
@cwood4ever Do you ever learn? More assumptions! No, I didn't go to ITT Tech but even so I would hardly call it "worthless", not that you know a damn thing about it anyway. Also, you ass, I haven't updated my page OR website since I was in HIGH SCHOOL for Christ sakes!!! You're a fucking buffoon.
@gragona Youre a fool for love and a fool for foolishness. If I where you I would keep your hippie mouth shut because someday you will need to actually find a job. No one wants to hire a whorish woman. Your parents wont let you live in their house forever.
First the Britannic inbreeds followed by the American War of Aggression & War Crime perpetrators, disassembled their respective nation’s factories and shipped them to communist china at their taxpayer’s expense.
he was pointing out college is about getting a degree now (credentials), what he thinks it should be is about people going to college to learn not the paper you get. There is definitely an inflation on higher education. Everyone has a degree, as he put it supply doesn't create demand. With jobs that require over qualification just to enter the workforce. The inflation just make it so you have to be a season veteran.
I never went to college. I went straight in the Navy after high school and now own my own automotive shop, a $600,000 home and cottage on Lake Michigan.
Sure, there are some degrees that are crap. Just look at Liberal Arts degrees. Those are completely useless. However, degrees in medicine, business administration, etc., are worth it. I have a BS in accounting and got a job 3 months out of college. I've been working at the same firm ever since and was able to completely pay off my student debt just this past June.
"However his point is only valid if you assume that the only purpose of college is a job training site"
College has become way too expensive of a place to go for personal enrichment. You have to consider what it will do for your earning power when you take on that huge debt load. If you want to broaden your horizons, go to the library.
Okay so if you want to become a lawyer? Skip school, straight out of high school go to a law firm and apply? No...you have to go to school. There are jobs these days, that ask for "any" kind of college degree, and usually these jobs are cashiers, sales person, and the like.
@BlooReaction You know, I don't remember mentioning what college I went to... humm. Here's the thing, I don't understand your logic... the more prestigious the college the more expensive it tends to be. I mean, yeah, it's great if you can be in the top 20 and get a scholarship or whatever, however, there can only be 20 in the top 20... you understand what I mean? It's great for the people who do but.. what about all the other people? Why do they somehow deserve less?
I disagree, almost entirely. He is right in his assessment of the marketability of bachelor-certified graduates in the fact that the job pool is increasingly, and will increasingly be, flooded with 4-year graduates, but the competition and understanding of this reality causes more graduates to pursue post-secondary educational avenues and results in a higher educated, more specialized and more globally competitive U.S.
I don't see any social cost/benefit being factored into Leef's view. Education is key to liberty, it is the difference between the US and afghanistan, it is the difference between medeival Europe and 21st century Europe.
It is also highly hypocritical and philistinian elitist of a highly educated man to stand up and say, "the club is full folks, please move on, there is an alley around the corner where folks like you can play nickles"
I think he's right on the economic issues. All increasing the amount of people with degrees does is increase as he says, "credential inflation" not demand for higher educated jobs. However his point is only valid if you assume that the only purpose of college is a job training site. Higher education can enrich your life as well and open doors for your intellectual curiosity. I've read things I would have never heard about if it wasn't for college that I can now not be without.
I couldn't go to college when I was young for numerous reasons so I went back at 30 & went straight through full time for 5 years to achieve my BA plus MA in the Health Arts & Sciences.I work as a caregiver for 8.80 p/hr w 78 GRAND in student loans! I'm also an exhibiting photographer & published essayist. I get asked to do A LOT of fund raisers / community events, tho I'm not going to quit my 8.80 p/ hour job to make art & art alone. School is expensive. It may have hurt me more than helped me.
Even if college education dosen't create more jobs, it should still be promoted as a way of countering reactionary anti-intellectual movements in the American South and in conservative government factions. College focuses and widens minds, and education the only way for humanity to progress pass this uncertain time without entering another dark age.
When a degree costs 25 - 50 thousand dollars for a BA and non specialized MA, how can education be purely for self fulfillment? It is an investment which needs to have a definite return.
It's true. The wage slavery economy doesn't gain any advantage. It's not meant to. The goal of education ought to be stimulate and help give form to creativity. An economy that is it odds with this and would rather have 'trainability' for menial jobs.
Most don't. Thats because its drilled in your head starting at about age 10 that you must go college to get a "good" job. Good has a very vague definition. The jobs we need for the economy are factory jobs which require no degree. The few that do are offered in trade school. Most people with college degrees do desk work from start to retirement.
College is marketed way too much considering it never actually pays you back. Business being the exception and even that paying you back is rare.
(continued from previous post) Secondly, we need standards, which all universities must use, which are so difficult that only the top 25 to 30 percent of students who graduate are allowed to go to 4 year universities. This will prevent the devaluation of a degree. For the remaining 70 to 75 percent, vocational training schools (2 year programs) will be given so that American can once again have well paid manufacturing and service jobs, instead of forfeiting them to foreign countries.
A solution to what Mr. Leef underscores about our state of higher education can be found in what other western countries do. We must start by increasing the difficulty and comprehensiveness of high school education, so that a high school graduate does not need to encounter 60 hours of core work, which has nothing to do with his career aspirations. He will be well rounded by the time he leaves high school. This leaves college time to be solely devoted to that student's specialty (continued).
"We must start by increasing the difficulty and comprehensiveness of high school education, so that a high school graduate does not need to encounter 60 hours of core work, which has nothing to do with his career aspirations."
This is the biggest problem with the US education system. Thanks for saying that. Some1 had to say it. Now if only the government will do the same.
As some who graduated from a 4-year degree, as well as someone who has done post baccalaureate work, I can attest to what George Leef is saying. This push, to make sure that more and more kids graduate from college, does lead to credential inflation, the deterioration of the quality of education in universities, and the devaluation of the college degree in the job market. Furthermore, it does leave well-qualified, non-degree holders, out of the picture, when they have so much to contribute.
Great post! I hear politicians always saying that the US workforce isn't educated enough. That is pure bullcrap. I have met people who graduated with near perfect GPA's with masters degrees who are delivering pizzas for a living (and had been for years before the economic downturn). The problem is NOT lack of skills or ability, it is lack of jobs.
I can see where this guy is coming from but I have to disagree. I think it's not just a matter of more college graduates but allowing people to seek on to higher education so they can use that knowledge to benefit mankind.
Of course some people are not cut out for college and that's understandable because why waste time on learning about subjects that don't further assist you in the process of gaining knowledge on what your trying to learn in which takes four years. Where as you can go to a trade school or whatever and focus strictly on the career you wish to pursue. Then of course their is the argument on that we're the dumbest generation. We need more people to be smarter so they can point India on a map.
I think his point that inflating the amount of education is required only harms. People need to forget this ridiculous notion that you must have higher education to be successful. It's just not true.
In fact, I'd go ahead and say something as revolutionary as you can have knowledge and skill without a degree and be able to carry out jobs that people think require a degree. Of course, it can help, but it's not vital.
Yes, their are jobs out there that don't necessarily require people to seek higher education like plumbers, technicians, etc. That's where trade schools come into play. However, what about jobs that do require years of experience, education, and training? If we didn't require people to go further with their education, then it defeats the purpose of education. Colleges/Universities allow students to learn and experience subjects from different points of views.
not to say people SHOULDNT have an education AT all.
I went to college for 2 years, got a degree, but I can't use it. I can't go back to school for 2 years, because I don't have the money, and everything Im qualified for wants a 4 year degree.
It also puts more people in debt when they go to school, but cant get a job w/ what they went for.
We need to weed out the weak and make things more sensible.
So what? Education isn't just about getting a job. It's about improving your knowledge and changing the way you think about the world. Considering we're a democratic republic, having an educated general public would be a good thing. I understand what the guy is saying though.
What most people don't realize is, you don't have to go to college to have an education. The most intelligent and successful people who ever lived never had a formal education. One reason being, when you learn on your own you tend to think more critically and, instead of having the "cookie cutter" education you get in college, you tend to be more innovative.
@gragona You sound like somone who didn't go to college. No offense. You should watch Thunderf00t's recent two videos on this subject, as well as Coughlan666's.
@GuppyPal I didn't think those videos were very good, because the guy he was criticizing wasn't coming down on education, he was coming down on school as a means to attain education. TF missed this very important distinction which invalidated the majority of his criticisms.
@angelwhite On the contrary, that is exactly what he talked about, especially in the second one. Having information available to you and studying on your own is not the same as working with someone who's been in the field for 30 years. I see it even on youtube. People think they're experts on something and really their knowledge on the subject wouldn't even be enough to get them an A in an intro class.
As for education in general, we really need to reform k-12. That's where the problem is.
@GuppyPal Hi, if you'd like to discuss TF's arguments in either video, feel free to DM me, I felt they were full of fallacies and should be easy to argue against.
His only point I think would be hard to argue against is that you need school to get a job, but that has little to do with knowledge.
My opinion (I have 175 credit hours and am taking 9), is that beyond the basic basics, scholastic education is vastly inferior to informal education. At least, in my major of Computer Science.
@GuppyPal You're wrong in your assumption, as a matter of fact, I have a Bachelors degree and graduated with a 3.88 GPA. Having the degree didn't really help me and now I'm in buttloads of debt because of it. I learned more in the first year I was out of college. I'm not saying that people shouldn't go to college, all I'm saying is it's not always necessary nor does it reflect the success of the person. College should only be used like a tool for learning, and it should be FREE to all.
how did you graduate with a gpa of 3.88? isn't the minimum pass for a subject a 4?
secondly college degrees all depend on what you study and how relevant it is to the kind of job you want to get. most arts degrees for instance are just a waste of 3 years of your life by themselves and don't lead to any jobs. however if you study science, engineering, law etc at uni then you have a pretty damn high chance of getting a job.
@AussiePolitics No... 4 is the highest GPA you can get which is 100% perfect grade. I think it's a minimum of 2.0 to pass. My degree was in graphic and web design. The thing is, I didn't learn anything I didn't already know. I just did it for the degree. However, that's not to say that other people wont learn from Uni but I do believe that the entire college system needs an update. There are ways to fix it so that what happened in Australia won't happen. Continued...
also while i think there is an argument for subsidising education, making it completely free just means you end up with what happened in australia in the 1980s when uni was free - you had thousands of people sticking around uni getting worthless degrees because it didn't cost them anything. you talked about how uni was no use to you and then you say it should be free. why? why should other people have to subsidise your decisions?
@AussiePolitics ...cont. The way I see it the college system would work like this: 1. everyone would get a certain amount of free college credits (enough for 1 full degree) 2. Everyone would have to take a competency test BEFORE starting to see how much they know already and tells them what classes they should take. 3. They choose EVERY class they want to take. 4. When they're done with the classes, they take the same competency test again, if they get a high enough score, they get the degree.
@AussiePolitics cont.2... If they don't pass the test then it would tell them what classes they need to take, they take the classes as much as they need until their credits run out, but they can still take the test as much as they want. This way, they would only have to take the classes they need in order to get the degree. They wouldn't even need to use all of their free college credits depending on how much they could learn on their own but still gives them a useful degree.
but mate if you made education free like the plan you just stated, then it would further devalue the use of a degree since there would be a massive surge in demand for university places.
Now I think university should be subsidised because it benefits society as a whole, however you also have to acknowledge that people are doing it for themselves and as such should have to pay part of the cost of improving their skills.
@AussiePolitics So what? If the people come out more educated then what's the harm? Like you said, it would improve society. What I didn't have room to say was that after the set number of college credits were used up, the person would then pay for any extra education. That would give them the motivation to use the free credits wisely. Either way, the US desperately needs to increase their standards of education.
well you'll be ensuring that a large number of people who otherwise would work will get degrees that have no use to them and are just a waste of taxpapers money. if you make education free then the number of enrollments is going to increase dramatically.
as i said, i agree with subsidizing education, but people should also have to pa a few thousand a year because at the end of the day they're doing this for themselves, not society.
@Aussie Having educated people within the society is the best way to help it. Without intelligent, well educated people we would have nothing to offer as a society or as a nation. I don't know why everyone thinks in taxes, a college education would cost a lot more than any amount of taxing. If I have to give 5% extra out of my paycheck so all Americans can have a good education, and not have to choose between paying tuition or their rent, I'm all for that. People are just too damned selfish.
if university was free then there will be thousands of people with no interest or use for a degree just finishing school and getting one for the hell of it. we saw it happen here in australia for a number of years when uni education was completely free. people stuck around uni, got degrees they never needed. the idea that if you don't pay for something yourself you don't appreciate it was pretty much demonstrated by this trial here. and after a few years even the gov had to give it up.
first of all you make the arrogant assumption that only people with a university degree can be educated
secondly you say that people are too damned selfish - do you really think the majority of people at university go there so they can give all their money back to society? no, they're going there to improve their skills for THEIR OWN SELVES.
they should do what we do in australia - your fees are about 5k a year but you only have to pay the government back when your income gets to a certain level
No, I never made that assumption, in fact I believe just the opposite. However, it do believe that sometimes you need hands on training in order to learn some things effectively. It is unfair to deny someone an opportunity to improve themselves just because they don't have the money. Whatever system that allows people to have that is fine with me. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just trying to get people away from focusing so much on money, and more on what really matters, peoples well being.
@gragona When you say college should be free to all, are you implying that all private colleges should immediately be taken over by the government? Or do you mean that FREE college should be AVAILABLE to all?
What I mean, Uninvited642, is that education and any form of education should be available to all, private, trade, community or otherwise. I don't see what the difference is really. But I guess the answer to your question is, yes. I don't understand the problem people have with this. Why is it ok that the government takes care of education up to grade 12 but any more than that is considered excessive? I just don't get it.
You should have majored in accounting! If you graduated with a 3.88 gpa and the curriculum to sit for the CPA exam you would have recruiters harassing you all day until you signed an employment contract!!!
@Rockynurse Yeah... but why would I want to waste my life doing peoples accounting? Yes, I would have money but what's the point of having money if I'm miserable 90% of the time? I just want to make a modest living at doing something I love. Is that really so much to ask?
@Rockynurse Just because I want to make a "modest living" doesn't mean I am. The problem arises because I SHOULD be making a modest living with my education level, but I'm not, because I'm in debt, because I have an education. Thus my predicament. But I digress, I'm not interested in Accounting, however that's not to say nobody else is. That's fine for them, it's just not my thing.
Does "should" mean you are entitled to a modest living? Since when do book smarts and a piece of paper called a degree entitle you to a modest living? You should be making a modest living the same as a person without a high school diploma "should" be impoverished.
@Rockynurse Your putting words in my mouth and trying to argue with me when I think we're on the same page. No, I believe everyone should be entitled to a modest living despite their education level. Unfortunately that's not reality. What I'm trying to do is point out the lies we've all been told about the education system so that we will spend $40,000 on it. Such as, "if you go the college your guaranteed a good job". It's false advertising if you ask me.
@gragona Not everyone should need to go to college to get a job. There is a good bit of false advertising. Join a movement to expose the problems with colleges. Type in Reform Higher Education Now in the search box on Facebook
I agree with you that they lie. It isn't false advertising though it is simply a sales pitch. They use possibilities and gross overgeneralizations to sell you something. They lump in all BA degrees from all schools and average incomes then apply the average to very low paying unprestigious surplus degrees like liberal studies.
If you really want someone to blame then blame Apollo Group.
@gragona College free for all? Newsflash. There's no such thing as free. Somebody has to pay for it. Then again, 90% of colleges are Marxist brainwashing camps. Why should my earnings be taxed to pay some Marxist, America hating, capitalism hating, and Christianity hating professor's salary or pay for some punk to study liberal arts?
@gragona Finally an American with some common sense... College is free for everyone (who is accepted of course) in my country. It is also higher quality, and shorter by a year (BSc is 3 years, MSc is 5 years).
@gragona What degree did you get. There are a lot of worthless degrees, but I am sure you know that. College should not be "free" First of all there is no such thing as free. Someone has to pay for it and well I don't want to pay for your worthless degree. Grow up and get some maturity and go get a real degree. Science, Engineering, Medical field etc etc.
@cwood4ever First of all, fuck you and you're ignorant assumptions. Secondly, my degree is a "real" degree. I have a Bachelors of Science in Programming. Got that? If you want to call that worthless I suggest just tossing your computer out the window. Finally, I'm sooooooo glad there are people like you out there who care so much about other people. They DEFIANTLY don't deserve even a penny of your "hard earned" money and should be left uneducated and unable to get a job. That makes sense.
@cwood4ever I mostly agree. Some degrees lead to careers others do not. Sadly most colleges pretend that all degrees are somehow equal. Join a movement to expose the problems with colleges. Type in Reform Higher Education Now in the search box on Facebook
A High School diploma should guarantee competence in civic and financial matters, and most career pursuits with some additional specialized training.
And a few generations ago it was.
Today, we have a bad case of 'delayed adolescence' and phony credentialism. It's due largely to lowered standards in primary/secondary schooling, partly to accommodate students who shouldn't even be in this country.
And so-called "higher education" is largely a fake make-work project for parasites.
Exactly, And most women don't go to college to become say Brain surgeons, Landscape contractors, or studying to become a buisness owner. They are looking to MARRY some dude thats already is a Doctor, or a Contractor, or has a family buisness already! Its always funny when you see some airhead blonde in college trying to decome a scientist or something. You KNOW she is looking for a job slightly different, if you get my drift ;)
Gosh, I didn't realize that we only educated people for our benefit. I was under the impression we did it because it benefitted them. What I fool I must be.
i slept a lot in college, missed most of my classes. i learned a lot from books and working for a living. college is overrated and its producing a zombie like country of people that will do anything for a dollar. theres more students in law school than actual lawyers.
This guy treats persons like tools in a system of economic machinery whose only goal is to produce and be "trainable" regardless if they get educated or not. Yet going to college and learning may be a goal of a person regardless the economic cost. In other words, one may choose learning as a self-realization too, not only as a means for getting a job.
oh hogwash... the single most important factor in upward mobility is a university education -- PERIOD... this is merely a rationalization for cutting public college funding ultimately resulting in a lowering of mobility for generations to come who, if this became policy, would have even fewer opportunities than exist today... this is wrong!
this is becoming a more common position. it's the right one in my opinion. it'll take a while to become more mainstream because it flies in the face of middle-class wisdom (more education is an unadulterated good thing)
@S0chan the ppl saying "bullshit, education is alway good" arent getting the point. its not about not educating ppl. its about ppl getting educated and still not being qualified, or ppl paying for an education and still not getting jobs because degrees dont create job supply. its the other way around, job supply should be creating degree availability or better yet we should just make it a priority to train everyone to work in a field.
@S0chan Job training is always good, too. And not every job out there is the kind of job an undergrad degree gets you. It wouldn't be so bad if we had more people learning skills and fewer learning about etymology and Italian history. And I say this as a man with an English degree and a great amateur love of history.
had to stop him almost immediately. He may have point that employers don't create more jobs just because there are more prospective employees. However, he passes over the possibility that college graduates may I don't know, create jobs... More college graduate=more college graduates that make jobs... easy
@jmsparhawk You can create businesses without being a graduate. More accurately, more of what we use daily, specifically networking tools, were created by non-graduates.
What used to be so complex, ie: web programs, construction, business ideas, now a 5th grader can reproduce.
in a society of mass production and mass consumption of course ppl like him don't want ppl to become educated. educated ppl don't normally buy crap that they don't need. but colleges and universities ARE a business as well..nowadays any FOOL can buy a degree..for as low as $25,000!! In 3 years!! So hurry buy now kids!! Don't worry about the quality of the education, there is no lead paint in it!! lol
Spending thousands of dollars and years of your life may not seem like such a sacrifice for a degree that may help you get a career, but when these degrees turn out to be mostly useless I think it hurts way more than it helps.
it hurts those whose careers never required a college degree. those in that field spend four or more years in school that they couldn've spent making money.
I work as a computer programmer, I started working as a computer programmer 5 years before I had my BA in computer science. how/why? because I was able to prove my self during job interviews.
and since than? no one really asked to see my papers either.
If the only education you want is for your career, then I'd definitely say technical school is the way to go. But that's why universities are called universities, and not "technical schools". You learn things outside of just technical skills.
This guy is correct. Look at the real world. In the past i have worked in Europe, the company i worked for had about 5 office assistants. People who answer phone, escort visitors to offices, make coffee for big meetings.
Every single one of them went to college, and these were not all 3 year degrees, some of these people were in college for 6-7 years.
He has some very good points, but he doesn't really have any evidence beyond quotes. That's not a bad thing, but I'd really like to know more.
But, if we do make colleges more exclusive, we should be doing so not through raising tuition, but through raising standards and lowering tuition. Just because your parents are rich doesn't mean you are a fucking genius.
We should make it clear: The world doesn't need any more history or english or music of business degrees, we need more science and engineering! That's what generates jobs, people who are capable of being innovative and are trained to execute their ideas.
Never let school interfere with your education. This guy is bang on. We have to stop poo-pooing alternatives such as trade-schools and apprenticeships.
Educations should train people how to make jobs, create business, build industry through innovation and generate their own money. Getting a job should be a subset or default not the goal of "education".
Becoming educated and getting through school are two different things. Just as much as the innovators that recreate industry is from someone who is only trying to get a job. People who have been educated should know how to make a business if they need a job.
In an economy where everything is geared to the needs of "employers" rather than on the needs of the employed - there is going to be a lot of wasted talent. This is why capitalism is never as productive as it claims to be.
it doesn't matter, I'm getting a college education for me, not because people told me they needed college graduates. he's forgetting that there are certain jobs, like teaching, that require a college education.
his overall premise is correct tho - for most degrees at university, while it used to be that "Ps mean degrees" and jobs, today you want to do a lot better in professions, and there are a lot of jobs where you quite frankly don't need a degree.
people need to be encouraged in high school to aspire and compete in science and engineering programs. We need productive skills not 'marketable' ones. teachers in business and arts are short sighted.
part of it is teacher's don't yet really know how geniuses or even normal intelligence is created, its a blind approach that isn't aided by parent hysteria or 'efficiency' and bureaucratization of colleges and universities by people out to make money on councils.
education is a MUST.
happinesson 3 months ago
Employers should focus on setting requirments based on certificates and diplomas..not bachelor degrees.
district2d 3 months ago
I was always viewed as one of the smart kids from the time I started kindergarten, but now that I have an M.A., I am competing against people who probably shouldn't have gotten degrees, and my resume gets lost in the shuffle. I am now going through an eviction.
scottandrewhutchins 5 months ago
@scottandrewhutchins I hear you. Few employers appreciate a Master’s degree in anything other than Business Administration. I got mine in Public Admin, thinking it would be a less competitive market, but no.
SenatorJPO 2 months ago
@SenatorJPO I'm supposed to be starting a new job with one of my grad school colleagues. He told me Monday that he would meet with me when he came to New York tomorrow, but he still hasn't told me where or what time. My M.A. is in film and media studies, and the fact that prior to my colleague, I had never interviewed for a related position, seemed to mean no one else would hire me, either. I went to an interview last year in which they harped on it, but not until the second interview.
scottandrewhutchins 2 months ago
@scottandrewhutchins Networking is pretty much the only way for most graduates to get a decent job. I hope the interview goes well… Keep us posted.
SenatorJPO 1 month ago
@SenatorJPO He had me put my stuff in storage and take a bus to Jacksonville for a three-month probationary period at $1,500 a month, which is a much more livable income there than it is in NYC. If successful, I will be given a raise an an $800 bonus to help with relocation. I'm currently living in a furnished room in an elderly lady's house, paid for with advances from my salary. On Thursday, I'm supposed to get a used car that will be paid in installments from my paycheck.
scottandrewhutchins 1 month ago
@SenatorJPO Which really sucks when you have the medical restrictions that I have. If I were to wait tables, I would surely have a back spasm and give someone a concussion with whatever I were holding.
scottandrewhutchins 1 month ago
let me get this straight..
decrease in college students = more productive workers?
well of course, you didn't educate the blacks in slave days.. and they were very productive!
republican asswipe.
Xandy3KO 7 months ago
Good points! What's sad is that after you are on your 3rd or 4th year of school you might as well finish, because you will have debt with NO degree.
JuseJamez 7 months ago
Most jobs these days ask for multiple skills rather than just one, and so Governments should be encouraging Certificates and Diplomas, rather than Degrees. If one took the wrong subject, then the chance to correct that is less likely for a 4-year degree than a 2-year Diploma - both in terms of time and money.
This isn't lowering educational standards, but applying it in the right places and getting the correct skills to the right people sooner.
SamusDrake 8 months ago
The vast majority of work would be better accomplished by workers who were much better trained with an apprenticeship. Skills learned ON THE JOB. It worked very well in the past when people's brains weren't flooded with fluoride and television. Colleges should be seen for what they are. Business's trying to market products. Indoctrination, arrogance and socially acceptable class warfare being just a few of the products for sale. I don't think we need these products any longer.
teerexness 9 months ago
Join a movement to expose the problems with colleges. Type in Reform Higher Education Now in the search box on Facebook
cwieand 10 months ago in playlist College
Here is what worked for me.
I entered college intending to get an English degree. Two years in, I took a step back. Although I enjoyed the classes, I noticed that some grad students in the department were still unable to find jobs. I researched options and thought about teaching but, even there, the job outlook was fairly poor. I decided to change my major to something very difficult. I figured if it was hard, few people would do it. I am sooo glad that I did that. Be careful, folks!
latinamajor 10 months ago
@latinamajor I agree major matters allot more than people realize. Colleges often pretend like all majors are equally worth the money. Join a movement to expose the problems with colleges. Type in Reform Higher Education Now in the search box on Facebook
cwieand 10 months ago in playlist College
Great video; I think individuals need to be empowered. I have an MBA from the University of phoenix and a masters in organizational management. I am self-employed and work promoting the sales of silver and gold. Not only am I receiving wealth, I am paying of $138,000 for "purchasing" an education. I created my own fortune, no one else has...so visit my youtube video page; I invented my wealth because i am an inventor and tapped into a niche market -- silver and gold investing (over 30,000 leads)
mobius1r 11 months ago
I agree, when the average consumer (college grad / parents) HAVE to take debt for them to loose four years working. That's slavery. "You don't have to go." Right, no one is FORCING anyone to go but evey try getting a job otherwise? Those jobs are pretty good if you live with your parents.
Apprenticeships are hard to get into to. We may have jobs growing but they are federal jobs and NOT production jobs. 1 fed job replaces 2-3 private sector jobs.
Shrunkenhead61 1 year ago
1:18 is that the most ugliest old woman you have ever seen. I'm not even joking people her face is freaky. I want to scream, the power of Christ compels you.
cwood4ever 1 year ago
What the flying FUCK is wrong with you people??? I would gladly give MOST of my paycheck if I knew it was going towards the education/healthcare etc. of everyone, EVERYONE. WTF does money matter if all we use it for is to by a bunch of BULLSHIT that nobody needs that's just going to go in a landfill eventually anyways. Just look at yourselves! Please try to figure out what's REALLY important, for everyones sake, including your own. Please.
gragona 1 year ago
@gragona Science in Programming is worthless because guess what people in India are getting those kinds of degrees by the dozen and well lets just say you're gonna have to basically move to India because that's where your jobs are going. I'm so glade that college taught you how to spell and use proper grammar. You're a perfect example of WHY I don't want you to have any of my money to go to college. I think you should become a ditch digger with that mouth you'd be perfect.
cwood4ever 1 year ago
@cwood4ever Oh yes, I'm "GLADE" I can spell and use proper grammar too.
gragona 1 year ago
@gragona By the way I'm sure you went to a school like ITT Tech which is a worthless school. You're a joke and by your page and website is clearly the case.
cwood4ever 1 year ago
@cwood4ever Do you ever learn? More assumptions! No, I didn't go to ITT Tech but even so I would hardly call it "worthless", not that you know a damn thing about it anyway. Also, you ass, I haven't updated my page OR website since I was in HIGH SCHOOL for Christ sakes!!! You're a fucking buffoon.
gragona 1 year ago
@gragona Youre a fool for love and a fool for foolishness. If I where you I would keep your hippie mouth shut because someday you will need to actually find a job. No one wants to hire a whorish woman. Your parents wont let you live in their house forever.
cwood4ever 1 year ago
@cwood4ever You ever hear of a straw-man??... No, never mind, you'll never get it anyway. You, my friend, are a giant twat.
gragona 1 year ago
@Lyleeeeee amen, but I am getting a degree in CJ because I am going to go into Forest Service and have to have it.
cwood4ever 1 year ago
@superbassify The point of value to corporations that all those university degrees represent, is the DEBT that it inflicts onto us.
Suckers, all of us.
centurion180ad 1 year ago
He is missing the point.
First the Britannic inbreeds followed by the American War of Aggression & War Crime perpetrators, disassembled their respective nation’s factories and shipped them to communist china at their taxpayer’s expense.
centurion180ad 1 year ago
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hey guys im quiting school
makavelishaman 1 year ago
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Questfortruth86 1 year ago
he was pointing out college is about getting a degree now (credentials), what he thinks it should be is about people going to college to learn not the paper you get. There is definitely an inflation on higher education. Everyone has a degree, as he put it supply doesn't create demand. With jobs that require over qualification just to enter the workforce. The inflation just make it so you have to be a season veteran.
tddavis 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I never went to college. I went straight in the Navy after high school and now own my own automotive shop, a $600,000 home and cottage on Lake Michigan.
DarrelfromZeeland 1 year ago
Sure, there are some degrees that are crap. Just look at Liberal Arts degrees. Those are completely useless. However, degrees in medicine, business administration, etc., are worth it. I have a BS in accounting and got a job 3 months out of college. I've been working at the same firm ever since and was able to completely pay off my student debt just this past June.
avataz 1 year ago
@avataz Congrats for being able to pay off your student debt!!!!! Outstanding!
Kyokidayo 1 year ago
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"However his point is only valid if you assume that the only purpose of college is a job training site"
College has become way too expensive of a place to go for personal enrichment. You have to consider what it will do for your earning power when you take on that huge debt load. If you want to broaden your horizons, go to the library.
lostprophet912 1 year ago 4
Okay so if you want to become a lawyer? Skip school, straight out of high school go to a law firm and apply? No...you have to go to school. There are jobs these days, that ask for "any" kind of college degree, and usually these jobs are cashiers, sales person, and the like.
ImNotYourFriend212 1 year ago
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K3Nshady 1 year ago
Neitzsche said that higher education in large numbers is the ultiamte paradox.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 Neitzsche was an elitist prick
Seita1223 2 months ago
does America needs more tuition ?
dan020350 1 year ago
Except for a very few career choices, college is an expensive waste of time...
DontGoToCollege 1 year ago
@BlooReaction You know, I don't remember mentioning what college I went to... humm. Here's the thing, I don't understand your logic... the more prestigious the college the more expensive it tends to be. I mean, yeah, it's great if you can be in the top 20 and get a scholarship or whatever, however, there can only be 20 in the top 20... you understand what I mean? It's great for the people who do but.. what about all the other people? Why do they somehow deserve less?
gragona 1 year ago
I disagree, almost entirely. He is right in his assessment of the marketability of bachelor-certified graduates in the fact that the job pool is increasingly, and will increasingly be, flooded with 4-year graduates, but the competition and understanding of this reality causes more graduates to pursue post-secondary educational avenues and results in a higher educated, more specialized and more globally competitive U.S.
fatpak419 2 years ago
I don't see any social cost/benefit being factored into Leef's view. Education is key to liberty, it is the difference between the US and afghanistan, it is the difference between medeival Europe and 21st century Europe.
It is also highly hypocritical and philistinian elitist of a highly educated man to stand up and say, "the club is full folks, please move on, there is an alley around the corner where folks like you can play nickles"
TheGodlessGuitarist 2 years ago
I think he's right on the economic issues. All increasing the amount of people with degrees does is increase as he says, "credential inflation" not demand for higher educated jobs. However his point is only valid if you assume that the only purpose of college is a job training site. Higher education can enrich your life as well and open doors for your intellectual curiosity. I've read things I would have never heard about if it wasn't for college that I can now not be without.
fathead8489 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I couldn't go to college when I was young for numerous reasons so I went back at 30 & went straight through full time for 5 years to achieve my BA plus MA in the Health Arts & Sciences.I work as a caregiver for 8.80 p/hr w 78 GRAND in student loans! I'm also an exhibiting photographer & published essayist. I get asked to do A LOT of fund raisers / community events, tho I'm not going to quit my 8.80 p/ hour job to make art & art alone. School is expensive. It may have hurt me more than helped me.
BDCbabe 2 years ago
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BDCbabe 2 years ago
he's on the money 110 percent.
thequietkid10 2 years ago
Even if college education dosen't create more jobs, it should still be promoted as a way of countering reactionary anti-intellectual movements in the American South and in conservative government factions. College focuses and widens minds, and education the only way for humanity to progress pass this uncertain time without entering another dark age.
niriop 2 years ago
I agree completely. But remember college is not the only way to get an education.
bjjartist 2 years ago
When a degree costs 25 - 50 thousand dollars for a BA and non specialized MA, how can education be purely for self fulfillment? It is an investment which needs to have a definite return.
BDCbabe 2 years ago 2
BDCbabe is dead on.
bjjartist 2 years ago
It's true. The wage slavery economy doesn't gain any advantage. It's not meant to. The goal of education ought to be stimulate and help give form to creativity. An economy that is it odds with this and would rather have 'trainability' for menial jobs.
ReX342 2 years ago 3
Only in America
BforBryan 2 years ago
@BforBryan
All the world, i am from Colombia and many graduate students dont get a job...
In contrast, i am not a graduate student and i do have a job.
ViejoIvan 1 year ago
I guess people don't get an education for self-fulfillment anymore.
Zubinen 2 years ago 2
Most don't. Thats because its drilled in your head starting at about age 10 that you must go college to get a "good" job. Good has a very vague definition. The jobs we need for the economy are factory jobs which require no degree. The few that do are offered in trade school. Most people with college degrees do desk work from start to retirement.
College is marketed way too much considering it never actually pays you back. Business being the exception and even that paying you back is rare.
bjjartist 2 years ago
(continued from previous post) Secondly, we need standards, which all universities must use, which are so difficult that only the top 25 to 30 percent of students who graduate are allowed to go to 4 year universities. This will prevent the devaluation of a degree. For the remaining 70 to 75 percent, vocational training schools (2 year programs) will be given so that American can once again have well paid manufacturing and service jobs, instead of forfeiting them to foreign countries.
alphacause 2 years ago 2
A solution to what Mr. Leef underscores about our state of higher education can be found in what other western countries do. We must start by increasing the difficulty and comprehensiveness of high school education, so that a high school graduate does not need to encounter 60 hours of core work, which has nothing to do with his career aspirations. He will be well rounded by the time he leaves high school. This leaves college time to be solely devoted to that student's specialty (continued).
alphacause 2 years ago 3
"We must start by increasing the difficulty and comprehensiveness of high school education, so that a high school graduate does not need to encounter 60 hours of core work, which has nothing to do with his career aspirations."
This is the biggest problem with the US education system. Thanks for saying that. Some1 had to say it. Now if only the government will do the same.
bjjartist 2 years ago
As some who graduated from a 4-year degree, as well as someone who has done post baccalaureate work, I can attest to what George Leef is saying. This push, to make sure that more and more kids graduate from college, does lead to credential inflation, the deterioration of the quality of education in universities, and the devaluation of the college degree in the job market. Furthermore, it does leave well-qualified, non-degree holders, out of the picture, when they have so much to contribute.
alphacause 2 years ago 14
@alphacause
Great post! I hear politicians always saying that the US workforce isn't educated enough. That is pure bullcrap. I have met people who graduated with near perfect GPA's with masters degrees who are delivering pizzas for a living (and had been for years before the economic downturn). The problem is NOT lack of skills or ability, it is lack of jobs.
latinamajor 9 months ago
Leef's arguments are valid, but I worry about the risk of going to the other end of the scale and having a deficiency of graduates.
And do you really want a bunch of only lightly educated people running the countries of the world?
1RadicalOne 2 years ago
Like. We. Have. Now?
gragona 2 years ago
In nature, but far worse in terms of severity.
1RadicalOne 2 years ago
I can see where this guy is coming from but I have to disagree. I think it's not just a matter of more college graduates but allowing people to seek on to higher education so they can use that knowledge to benefit mankind.
Kevinge3 2 years ago
Of course some people are not cut out for college and that's understandable because why waste time on learning about subjects that don't further assist you in the process of gaining knowledge on what your trying to learn in which takes four years. Where as you can go to a trade school or whatever and focus strictly on the career you wish to pursue. Then of course their is the argument on that we're the dumbest generation. We need more people to be smarter so they can point India on a map.
Kevinge3 2 years ago
I think his point that inflating the amount of education is required only harms. People need to forget this ridiculous notion that you must have higher education to be successful. It's just not true.
In fact, I'd go ahead and say something as revolutionary as you can have knowledge and skill without a degree and be able to carry out jobs that people think require a degree. Of course, it can help, but it's not vital.
Mastikator 2 years ago
Yes, their are jobs out there that don't necessarily require people to seek higher education like plumbers, technicians, etc. That's where trade schools come into play. However, what about jobs that do require years of experience, education, and training? If we didn't require people to go further with their education, then it defeats the purpose of education. Colleges/Universities allow students to learn and experience subjects from different points of views.
Kevinge3 2 years ago
I'm going to say this dude is correct.
not to say people SHOULDNT have an education AT all.
I went to college for 2 years, got a degree, but I can't use it. I can't go back to school for 2 years, because I don't have the money, and everything Im qualified for wants a 4 year degree.
It also puts more people in debt when they go to school, but cant get a job w/ what they went for.
We need to weed out the weak and make things more sensible.
wont happen, but thats what we need.
TotalKaosE 2 years ago 2
Truvelocity said : "College helps expand the mind".
Yeah, and a college student's idea of "expanding the mind" has alot to do with a bong and greatful dead music
billydumont 2 years ago
LOL No doubt.
gragona 2 years ago
is it possible to be educated beyond one's intelligence? it feel like that when i see a lot of recent college graduates...
jskim1 2 years ago 2
@1ProbablyHateYou
Not if that education is something they didn't need in the first place, and could've been trained quickly, etc.
Dislekseyuh 2 years ago
So what? Education isn't just about getting a job. It's about improving your knowledge and changing the way you think about the world. Considering we're a democratic republic, having an educated general public would be a good thing. I understand what the guy is saying though.
GuppyPal 2 years ago
College helps expand the mind.
truvelocity 2 years ago
What most people don't realize is, you don't have to go to college to have an education. The most intelligent and successful people who ever lived never had a formal education. One reason being, when you learn on your own you tend to think more critically and, instead of having the "cookie cutter" education you get in college, you tend to be more innovative.
gragona 2 years ago
@gragona You sound like somone who didn't go to college. No offense. You should watch Thunderf00t's recent two videos on this subject, as well as Coughlan666's.
GuppyPal 2 years ago 2
@GuppyPal I didn't think those videos were very good, because the guy he was criticizing wasn't coming down on education, he was coming down on school as a means to attain education. TF missed this very important distinction which invalidated the majority of his criticisms.
angelwhite 2 years ago
@angelwhite On the contrary, that is exactly what he talked about, especially in the second one. Having information available to you and studying on your own is not the same as working with someone who's been in the field for 30 years. I see it even on youtube. People think they're experts on something and really their knowledge on the subject wouldn't even be enough to get them an A in an intro class.
As for education in general, we really need to reform k-12. That's where the problem is.
GuppyPal 2 years ago
@GuppyPal Hi, if you'd like to discuss TF's arguments in either video, feel free to DM me, I felt they were full of fallacies and should be easy to argue against.
His only point I think would be hard to argue against is that you need school to get a job, but that has little to do with knowledge.
My opinion (I have 175 credit hours and am taking 9), is that beyond the basic basics, scholastic education is vastly inferior to informal education. At least, in my major of Computer Science.
angelwhite 2 years ago
@GuppyPal You're wrong in your assumption, as a matter of fact, I have a Bachelors degree and graduated with a 3.88 GPA. Having the degree didn't really help me and now I'm in buttloads of debt because of it. I learned more in the first year I was out of college. I'm not saying that people shouldn't go to college, all I'm saying is it's not always necessary nor does it reflect the success of the person. College should only be used like a tool for learning, and it should be FREE to all.
gragona 2 years ago 32
how did you graduate with a gpa of 3.88? isn't the minimum pass for a subject a 4?
secondly college degrees all depend on what you study and how relevant it is to the kind of job you want to get. most arts degrees for instance are just a waste of 3 years of your life by themselves and don't lead to any jobs. however if you study science, engineering, law etc at uni then you have a pretty damn high chance of getting a job.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics No... 4 is the highest GPA you can get which is 100% perfect grade. I think it's a minimum of 2.0 to pass. My degree was in graphic and web design. The thing is, I didn't learn anything I didn't already know. I just did it for the degree. However, that's not to say that other people wont learn from Uni but I do believe that the entire college system needs an update. There are ways to fix it so that what happened in Australia won't happen. Continued...
gragona 1 year ago
also while i think there is an argument for subsidising education, making it completely free just means you end up with what happened in australia in the 1980s when uni was free - you had thousands of people sticking around uni getting worthless degrees because it didn't cost them anything. you talked about how uni was no use to you and then you say it should be free. why? why should other people have to subsidise your decisions?
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics ...cont. The way I see it the college system would work like this: 1. everyone would get a certain amount of free college credits (enough for 1 full degree) 2. Everyone would have to take a competency test BEFORE starting to see how much they know already and tells them what classes they should take. 3. They choose EVERY class they want to take. 4. When they're done with the classes, they take the same competency test again, if they get a high enough score, they get the degree.
gragona 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics cont.2... If they don't pass the test then it would tell them what classes they need to take, they take the classes as much as they need until their credits run out, but they can still take the test as much as they want. This way, they would only have to take the classes they need in order to get the degree. They wouldn't even need to use all of their free college credits depending on how much they could learn on their own but still gives them a useful degree.
gragona 1 year ago
but mate if you made education free like the plan you just stated, then it would further devalue the use of a degree since there would be a massive surge in demand for university places.
Now I think university should be subsidised because it benefits society as a whole, however you also have to acknowledge that people are doing it for themselves and as such should have to pay part of the cost of improving their skills.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics So what? If the people come out more educated then what's the harm? Like you said, it would improve society. What I didn't have room to say was that after the set number of college credits were used up, the person would then pay for any extra education. That would give them the motivation to use the free credits wisely. Either way, the US desperately needs to increase their standards of education.
gragona 1 year ago
well you'll be ensuring that a large number of people who otherwise would work will get degrees that have no use to them and are just a waste of taxpapers money. if you make education free then the number of enrollments is going to increase dramatically.
as i said, i agree with subsidizing education, but people should also have to pa a few thousand a year because at the end of the day they're doing this for themselves, not society.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@Aussie Having educated people within the society is the best way to help it. Without intelligent, well educated people we would have nothing to offer as a society or as a nation. I don't know why everyone thinks in taxes, a college education would cost a lot more than any amount of taxing. If I have to give 5% extra out of my paycheck so all Americans can have a good education, and not have to choose between paying tuition or their rent, I'm all for that. People are just too damned selfish.
gragona 1 year ago
if university was free then there will be thousands of people with no interest or use for a degree just finishing school and getting one for the hell of it. we saw it happen here in australia for a number of years when uni education was completely free. people stuck around uni, got degrees they never needed. the idea that if you don't pay for something yourself you don't appreciate it was pretty much demonstrated by this trial here. and after a few years even the gov had to give it up.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
first of all you make the arrogant assumption that only people with a university degree can be educated
secondly you say that people are too damned selfish - do you really think the majority of people at university go there so they can give all their money back to society? no, they're going there to improve their skills for THEIR OWN SELVES.
they should do what we do in australia - your fees are about 5k a year but you only have to pay the government back when your income gets to a certain level
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
No, I never made that assumption, in fact I believe just the opposite. However, it do believe that sometimes you need hands on training in order to learn some things effectively. It is unfair to deny someone an opportunity to improve themselves just because they don't have the money. Whatever system that allows people to have that is fine with me. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just trying to get people away from focusing so much on money, and more on what really matters, peoples well being.
gragona 1 year ago
@gragona When you say college should be free to all, are you implying that all private colleges should immediately be taken over by the government? Or do you mean that FREE college should be AVAILABLE to all?
Uninvited642 1 year ago
What I mean, Uninvited642, is that education and any form of education should be available to all, private, trade, community or otherwise. I don't see what the difference is really. But I guess the answer to your question is, yes. I don't understand the problem people have with this. Why is it ok that the government takes care of education up to grade 12 but any more than that is considered excessive? I just don't get it.
gragona 1 year ago
@gragona
You should have majored in accounting! If you graduated with a 3.88 gpa and the curriculum to sit for the CPA exam you would have recruiters harassing you all day until you signed an employment contract!!!
Rockynurse 1 year ago
@Rockynurse Yeah... but why would I want to waste my life doing peoples accounting? Yes, I would have money but what's the point of having money if I'm miserable 90% of the time? I just want to make a modest living at doing something I love. Is that really so much to ask?
gragona 1 year ago
@gragona
Buttloads of debt generally means you have living impoverished not modest. =) Accounting is fun and intellectually stimulating!
Rockynurse 1 year ago
@Rockynurse Just because I want to make a "modest living" doesn't mean I am. The problem arises because I SHOULD be making a modest living with my education level, but I'm not, because I'm in debt, because I have an education. Thus my predicament. But I digress, I'm not interested in Accounting, however that's not to say nobody else is. That's fine for them, it's just not my thing.
gragona 1 year ago
@gragona
Does "should" mean you are entitled to a modest living? Since when do book smarts and a piece of paper called a degree entitle you to a modest living? You should be making a modest living the same as a person without a high school diploma "should" be impoverished.
Rockynurse 1 year ago
@Rockynurse Your putting words in my mouth and trying to argue with me when I think we're on the same page. No, I believe everyone should be entitled to a modest living despite their education level. Unfortunately that's not reality. What I'm trying to do is point out the lies we've all been told about the education system so that we will spend $40,000 on it. Such as, "if you go the college your guaranteed a good job". It's false advertising if you ask me.
gragona 1 year ago
@gragona Not everyone should need to go to college to get a job. There is a good bit of false advertising. Join a movement to expose the problems with colleges. Type in Reform Higher Education Now in the search box on Facebook
cwieand 10 months ago
@gragona
I agree with you that they lie. It isn't false advertising though it is simply a sales pitch. They use possibilities and gross overgeneralizations to sell you something. They lump in all BA degrees from all schools and average incomes then apply the average to very low paying unprestigious surplus degrees like liberal studies.
If you really want someone to blame then blame Apollo Group.
Rockynurse 1 year ago
@gragona a degree in?
kmax9480 1 year ago
@kmax9480 Software development....
gragona 1 year ago
@gragona College free for all? Newsflash. There's no such thing as free. Somebody has to pay for it. Then again, 90% of colleges are Marxist brainwashing camps. Why should my earnings be taxed to pay some Marxist, America hating, capitalism hating, and Christianity hating professor's salary or pay for some punk to study liberal arts?
DarrelfromZeeland 1 year ago
@gragona Finally an American with some common sense... College is free for everyone (who is accepted of course) in my country. It is also higher quality, and shorter by a year (BSc is 3 years, MSc is 5 years).
viharsarok 1 year ago
@viharsarok I appreciate that. I understand, Americans can be somewhat... unimaginative. :)
gragona 1 year ago
@gragona What degree did you get. There are a lot of worthless degrees, but I am sure you know that. College should not be "free" First of all there is no such thing as free. Someone has to pay for it and well I don't want to pay for your worthless degree. Grow up and get some maturity and go get a real degree. Science, Engineering, Medical field etc etc.
cwood4ever 1 year ago
@cwood4ever First of all, fuck you and you're ignorant assumptions. Secondly, my degree is a "real" degree. I have a Bachelors of Science in Programming. Got that? If you want to call that worthless I suggest just tossing your computer out the window. Finally, I'm sooooooo glad there are people like you out there who care so much about other people. They DEFIANTLY don't deserve even a penny of your "hard earned" money and should be left uneducated and unable to get a job. That makes sense.
gragona 1 year ago
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@cwood4ever I mostly agree. Some degrees lead to careers others do not. Sadly most colleges pretend that all degrees are somehow equal. Join a movement to expose the problems with colleges. Type in Reform Higher Education Now in the search box on Facebook
cwieand 10 months ago
A High School diploma should guarantee competence in civic and financial matters, and most career pursuits with some additional specialized training.
And a few generations ago it was.
Today, we have a bad case of 'delayed adolescence' and phony credentialism. It's due largely to lowered standards in primary/secondary schooling, partly to accommodate students who shouldn't even be in this country.
And so-called "higher education" is largely a fake make-work project for parasites.
ProNorden 2 years ago 4
George Leef is a total fucking idiot.
SourceCode2006 2 years ago
MTV´s Jersey Shore is the ultimate feminine statement and now this..
FORA actually used to be good, now it looks like a drunken monkey assumed the site.
Leobons 2 years ago
We need more manufacturing jobs in this country, which implies that degrees will become of less importance.
emirnkamelia 2 years ago
Exactly, And most women don't go to college to become say Brain surgeons, Landscape contractors, or studying to become a buisness owner. They are looking to MARRY some dude thats already is a Doctor, or a Contractor, or has a family buisness already! Its always funny when you see some airhead blonde in college trying to decome a scientist or something. You KNOW she is looking for a job slightly different, if you get my drift ;)
billydumont 2 years ago
@billydumont Sexist much? How the hell would you know what women what to do? Fucking douche knuckle...
gragona 1 year ago
this guy is dead on
fdny9682 2 years ago
Gosh, I didn't realize that we only educated people for our benefit. I was under the impression we did it because it benefitted them. What I fool I must be.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Idiot.
Employers do not need more college degrees may be true.
However college educated people are flexible, they become entrepreneurs and employers.
They go on to make small businesses and innovators.
The useless trash the colleges produce is the business graduates. degrees in shopping have trashed the economy.
USA is famously the most poorly educated compared to the rest of the OECD.
Germany makes good use of a highly educated workforce... USA has broom pushers.
marsCubed 2 years ago
i slept a lot in college, missed most of my classes. i learned a lot from books and working for a living. college is overrated and its producing a zombie like country of people that will do anything for a dollar. theres more students in law school than actual lawyers.
tommyneumann 2 years ago 2
A lot of painful truth here. I work in a college and most of the kids here (and I have to call them kids) can barely write.
undersolo 2 years ago
This guy treats persons like tools in a system of economic machinery whose only goal is to produce and be "trainable" regardless if they get educated or not. Yet going to college and learning may be a goal of a person regardless the economic cost. In other words, one may choose learning as a self-realization too, not only as a means for getting a job.
eydos 2 years ago
I agree, thats one of the main reasons that one should get a higher education in something he ENJOYS bot just something to get more money...
Ryosuke1208 2 years ago
oh hogwash... the single most important factor in upward mobility is a university education -- PERIOD... this is merely a rationalization for cutting public college funding ultimately resulting in a lowering of mobility for generations to come who, if this became policy, would have even fewer opportunities than exist today... this is wrong!
bbbbmer 2 years ago
this is becoming a more common position. it's the right one in my opinion. it'll take a while to become more mainstream because it flies in the face of middle-class wisdom (more education is an unadulterated good thing)
Ducky1987 2 years ago
@gwoz0z0: "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" -- Mark Twain
herne 2 years ago
But it is a good business...
mrmaciejm 2 years ago
College would have helped this guy, who clearly lacks in the logic department.
kaneweb 2 years ago
@kaneweb Realize If he had went to college, then it more helps his argument.
Efferts 2 years ago
Bullshit, more education is always good.
This is retarded.
S0chan 2 years ago
@S0chan the ppl saying "bullshit, education is alway good" arent getting the point. its not about not educating ppl. its about ppl getting educated and still not being qualified, or ppl paying for an education and still not getting jobs because degrees dont create job supply. its the other way around, job supply should be creating degree availability or better yet we should just make it a priority to train everyone to work in a field.
keggerous 2 years ago
@S0chan Job training is always good, too. And not every job out there is the kind of job an undergrad degree gets you. It wouldn't be so bad if we had more people learning skills and fewer learning about etymology and Italian history. And I say this as a man with an English degree and a great amateur love of history.
eirefrance 2 years ago
most people in school dont care about 'education'. its all about GPA.
sexdrugsRnR 2 years ago
5 stars
yougiberishtube 2 years ago
had to stop him almost immediately. He may have point that employers don't create more jobs just because there are more prospective employees. However, he passes over the possibility that college graduates may I don't know, create jobs... More college graduate=more college graduates that make jobs... easy
I think this man has lazy ideas.
jmsparhawk 2 years ago
@jmsparhawk You can create businesses without being a graduate. More accurately, more of what we use daily, specifically networking tools, were created by non-graduates.
What used to be so complex, ie: web programs, construction, business ideas, now a 5th grader can reproduce.
Efferts 2 years ago
in a society of mass production and mass consumption of course ppl like him don't want ppl to become educated. educated ppl don't normally buy crap that they don't need. but colleges and universities ARE a business as well..nowadays any FOOL can buy a degree..for as low as $25,000!! In 3 years!! So hurry buy now kids!! Don't worry about the quality of the education, there is no lead paint in it!! lol
LadyDatura09 2 years ago
Dumbing down the US? Go ahead, it will the Chinese takeover easier.
TigerOfKarlstad 2 years ago
Spending thousands of dollars and years of your life may not seem like such a sacrifice for a degree that may help you get a career, but when these degrees turn out to be mostly useless I think it hurts way more than it helps.
Shalek 2 years ago 2
@alizee2010
Couldn't have put it better.
Shalek 2 years ago
he has a good idea, but he's not passing it on correctly. a FAIL in my book.
a smart enought person (even with no degree) will know how to push him self ahead.
a dumb person (even with a degree) will fail most job interviews.
and a collage degree does not hurt. may not always help, but I don't think it ever hurts.
eyallev 2 years ago
it hurts those whose careers never required a college degree. those in that field spend four or more years in school that they couldn've spent making money.
Ducky1987 2 years ago 2
I work as a computer programmer, I started working as a computer programmer 5 years before I had my BA in computer science. how/why? because I was able to prove my self during job interviews.
and since than? no one really asked to see my papers either.
eyallev 2 years ago
I love his conclusion!
Chrisnoscrub047 2 years ago
colleges suck you in and take your money and a good chunk of your life and time before you get your good job
which is y i prefer technical schools because its nothing but the training of the job / career that you are applying yourself for.
MustanGT2003 2 years ago
@MustanGT2003,
If the only education you want is for your career, then I'd definitely say technical school is the way to go. But that's why universities are called universities, and not "technical schools". You learn things outside of just technical skills.
CharBroiled04 2 years ago
This guy is correct. Look at the real world. In the past i have worked in Europe, the company i worked for had about 5 office assistants. People who answer phone, escort visitors to offices, make coffee for big meetings.
Every single one of them went to college, and these were not all 3 year degrees, some of these people were in college for 6-7 years.
deathByStupid 2 years ago
He has some very good points, but he doesn't really have any evidence beyond quotes. That's not a bad thing, but I'd really like to know more.
But, if we do make colleges more exclusive, we should be doing so not through raising tuition, but through raising standards and lowering tuition. Just because your parents are rich doesn't mean you are a fucking genius.
Phelan666 2 years ago
We should make it clear: The world doesn't need any more history or english or music of business degrees, we need more science and engineering! That's what generates jobs, people who are capable of being innovative and are trained to execute their ideas.
siradam575 2 years ago
@siradam575 But you can't force ppl to take one set of degrees over the other.
portantwas 2 years ago
Never let school interfere with your education. This guy is bang on. We have to stop poo-pooing alternatives such as trade-schools and apprenticeships.
ndyt 2 years ago
Educations should train people how to make jobs, create business, build industry through innovation and generate their own money. Getting a job should be a subset or default not the goal of "education".
Becoming educated and getting through school are two different things. Just as much as the innovators that recreate industry is from someone who is only trying to get a job. People who have been educated should know how to make a business if they need a job.
AVTPro 2 years ago
if you dont like stupid people, then educate them.
fuck this motherfucker.
xkeltoix 2 years ago
america needs more college educated people simply because education is better than capitalism. america has a problem with anti intellectualism
we are not slaves to employers you fuckwad
xkeltoix 2 years ago
In an economy where everything is geared to the needs of "employers" rather than on the needs of the employed - there is going to be a lot of wasted talent. This is why capitalism is never as productive as it claims to be.
blackiron60 2 years ago
it doesn't matter, I'm getting a college education for me, not because people told me they needed college graduates. he's forgetting that there are certain jobs, like teaching, that require a college education.
ashestoyoursoul 2 years ago
his overall premise is correct tho - for most degrees at university, while it used to be that "Ps mean degrees" and jobs, today you want to do a lot better in professions, and there are a lot of jobs where you quite frankly don't need a degree.
AussiePolitics 2 years ago
this guy is spot on.
people need to be encouraged in high school to aspire and compete in science and engineering programs. We need productive skills not 'marketable' ones. teachers in business and arts are short sighted.
part of it is teacher's don't yet really know how geniuses or even normal intelligence is created, its a blind approach that isn't aided by parent hysteria or 'efficiency' and bureaucratization of colleges and universities by people out to make money on councils.
tyrannicoystercult 2 years ago
this guy is a joke
DBrownofdc 2 years ago
A healthy, confident, educated public is the greatest safeguard to democracy.
lynchmobb2000 2 years ago 2
Does he have Parkinsons?
marbdy 2 years ago
Fuck this guy, Education is almost Always a good thing.
DackIsBack 2 years ago