Now onto Butyrskaya she skated in what was fully entrenched as the free skating era. Of course she had 5 triples. EVERYONE had 5 triples by then. If she came up in the 80s she wouldnt have had 5 triple for sure. Jill won 3 U.S titles in deep fields beating the likes of Thomas and Yamaguchi. Maria was an also ran most of her career overshadowed by Baiul, Bonaly, Kerrigan, Kwan, Lipinski, Chen, Slutskaya, and Hughes.She won Worlds in a transition year where other than Kwan there was nobody there.
Some of these comments are a bit over the top. Yes, Trenary won the following year entirely because of figures, but so what? It's not her fault that figures still counted back then. She won under the rules that existed at the time and that's all that can be expected of any athlete.
That said, the technical marks given to her for this LP were absurd. It's clear that Ito's 6.0s shook her up, but that's the way it goes. Her reputation won her the bronze here and THAT isn't right.
Compulsory figures hideous. HELLO where do you think the name figure skating came from? Besides have you ever watched them? They are difficult yet amazing to watch.
Jill is a beautiful skater but that bronze medal was a gift from that panel of judges. I think Carlo won that medal for Jill. The gold she won in 1990 was well deserved though.
I was shocked to see the remark that Trenary is "better" than Butyrskaya. What??? Jill had three triples, Maria had five. Jill also did not have the same level of spins or choreography as Butyrskaya. Any objective person would have to realize that. Plus, Maria was able to stay competitive for several years longer than Jill was. Finally, Maria did triple triple jumps (triple toe, half loop, triple sal), and a triple lutz double loop; jill, yeah right. I do like Jill, but bad comparison.
@mlc2005 Your comparision is unfair. Jill grew up in the figures era where the top skaters were only training 2 or 3 different types of triples and 4 or 5 triples total. She was unlucky in that she got stuck between 2 eras, she had to wait her turn behind Witt, Thomas, and others as the cutsomary in the figures, then faced younger skaters like Ito, Yamaguchi, Harding, Kerrigan who trained for the free skating era and doing all the triples that werent needed in the figures era.
This performance is almost as much of a joke as her World Title. Honestly, this woman was so over-rated it isn't even funny. Not only was she ugly, but her skating was boring and she always fell.
wow how tough must that be to talk to the press directly after a disappointing performance. well i think she did a lot better the following year. And it's not her fault the judging system was really rigged back then. I mean she should never have beaten Kristi in the free skate but that's the judges fault not Jill's she did the best she could - part of performing is mental and that was not her forte.
Actually i really like to watch Jill Trenary even though i know the jumps were not there in this program. For anybody who looks for more than jumps in skating, Jill Trenary is wonderful to watch. Others are amazing jumpers but you can't watch them for long because they don't know how to move when they are not jumping. I prefer beautiful skating.
Russianskatingfan, I am sure you were a fan of Maria Butraskia. That was a true joke, her winnning a World title. Jill was heads and shoulder above that hot mess. That is a skater who had no style, could not spin or jump but because she is Russian she is GREAT. yeah right.
Well Butyrskaya won her World title with 7 triples, including all 5 types of triple jumps. Jill won hers with 4, and no triple lutz or triple loop. Butyrskaya had higher jumps and stronger jump landings. Her spins are easily better than Jill's, faster with better positions. Her programs are atleast coherent rather than a mishmash of strange music choices like Trenary. Maria also had a chance to win a 2nd title in 2000, while Jill never had a shot any year than 1990. Anymore questions?
By the way nobody said Maria was that great or a skating legend. Also no I am not a big fan of Maria, although I admired her fighting qualities I never loved her skating that much. She also is one of the weaker World Champions, but even she is a better skater than Jill is. Exactly what does Jill in her prime (1987 to 1990) do better than Maria in her prime (1998 to 2001) by the way?
Youve almost got to feel sorry for her and other skaters who competed during the time of midori ito, b/c Ito was such a random prodigy, they must have thought: "damn, why did she have to come around now!"
grafgirl, Ito deserved to win at least 3 World Titles. Maybe 4. She was screwed by the school figures and also marked down because of racism (or at least not having a strong federation) earlier in her career.
You keep acting like the figures didnt exist. In fact I have seen you many times on videos say how such and such a competition should have finished but ignoring figures altogether. Figures were part of skating back then, like it or not, that was just reality, and unfortunately Ito as talented as she was as a free skater struggled mighily with figures most of the time.
Well at the Worlds in Halifax there was actual footage of Ito actually hopping away from the circle altogether in one of her figures, something you almost never see from anyone. I think it is safe to say she was legitimately weak in figures most of the time.
@grafgirl27: jill won worlds 1990 by placing 1st in figures, 3rd in short and 2nd in free. correct me if i'm wrong. midori was 10th in figures and 1st in short short and long. she needed help and kristi had to beat jill to ensure midori won but that did not happen. just correct me if i'm wrong
Trenary wasnt the kind of skater who would be a great champion in any era. She isnt a great jumper, spinner, or even artist. She was dominated at various points of her career by Witt, Thomas, Manley, Ito, Yamaguchi, Kerrigan, Harding. In any other era it would be the same as there would be multiple better skaters than her. For her to win 1 world title, 2 world medals, 3 U.S titles, and have a 4th at the Olympics is great enough for her ability. If anything she overachieved.
ussianskatingfan, I agree with you--although I wouldn't have phrased it as strongly as you did... Trenary was stunning on the ice, she always had great costumes, and she looked like a champion. Aside from that, there was nothing special about her--and I think Toller Cranston pointed that out at one point (maybe in his CBC commentary?).
Yes I agree with that. Her greatest assets were her skating posture and carriage across the ice (someone like Kadavy was still better here though) and most of all her look on the ice. Her costuming, hair designs, and thinks like her opening and closing poses just all presented her physical beauty very well. Other than that nothing special as you said.
Yamaguchi totally deserved Bronze at this championships over Trenary. 5 clean Triples in comparison to 2 and Trenary's performance quality here wasn't anything special.
I found the comments by Trenary after the short program that this was not only a Triple Jump Competition just sour grapes, and considering that she only hit one clean triple, the salchow, and turned at least 3 or 4 doubles into singles, more indicative of how much higher Midori Ito was in terms of being the much better skater.
Ridiculous marks for what she performed! Should have been also behind Yamaguchi and Grossmann....but this was judging in the 80s..reputation counted more than everything else
Anyone else glad that because of getting rid of those hideous compulsory figures that mediocre skaters like Jill Trennary would never win another world title again? Midori ito was so superior in the LP in 1990 that it was a sham that she disn't win. All because of those shitty compulsory figures. Jill got her ass beat in both the SP and LP but still won just because Ito was 10th after the school figures.
I know. And people expected this program to beat Midori's program. Ito was superior in terms of jumps and spins and charisma. And, YES, I agree... a tentative triple flip against the world's first triple axel - like going to war with a pistol when your enemies got a-bombs! You know what I mean? :)
This is no slam on Trenary's skating or Trenary herself... but OY! that costume! that hair! Jill actually represented the pinnacle of skating glamor in the '80s... but I forgot how horrendous '80s skating fashion really was!
The interesting thing is I copied the marks for Jill and Claudia, and if the artistic mark is the tiebreaker Jill seemed to win 5 of the 9 judges over Leistner yet finished behind her in the LP and overall. Were the ordinals just muddled between those 3 in the LP (Kristi could not have medaled even with 2nd in the LP anyway) and maybe 1 or 2 others to come up with the final LP and overall results?
Was the presentation mark already the long program tiebreaker in 1989? I thought the tech mark was the tiebreaker in both SP and LP until the 1989-90 season, though I could be wrong.
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Now onto Butyrskaya she skated in what was fully entrenched as the free skating era. Of course she had 5 triples. EVERYONE had 5 triples by then. If she came up in the 80s she wouldnt have had 5 triple for sure. Jill won 3 U.S titles in deep fields beating the likes of Thomas and Yamaguchi. Maria was an also ran most of her career overshadowed by Baiul, Bonaly, Kerrigan, Kwan, Lipinski, Chen, Slutskaya, and Hughes.She won Worlds in a transition year where other than Kwan there was nobody there.
russianskatingfan 3 months ago
Comment removed
russianskatingfan 3 months ago
This is one of the prettiest costumes I have ever seen in amateur competitions since the 1970s.
nondescriptnyc 4 months ago
Some of these comments are a bit over the top. Yes, Trenary won the following year entirely because of figures, but so what? It's not her fault that figures still counted back then. She won under the rules that existed at the time and that's all that can be expected of any athlete.
That said, the technical marks given to her for this LP were absurd. It's clear that Ito's 6.0s shook her up, but that's the way it goes. Her reputation won her the bronze here and THAT isn't right.
PierreMcDuck 9 months ago
Compulsory figures hideous. HELLO where do you think the name figure skating came from? Besides have you ever watched them? They are difficult yet amazing to watch.
skaterdude1962 10 months ago
5.7 for technical merit???????????????? technically it did not deserve more than 5.0 even in 1989!!!!!
will74lsn 1 year ago 2
How In The Hell Could she have been a WORLD CHAMPION?If the compulsory figures had not counted she would not have placed in the top three
Alaniebee 1 year ago
Jill is a beautiful skater but that bronze medal was a gift from that panel of judges. I think Carlo won that medal for Jill. The gold she won in 1990 was well deserved though.
dolcevitausa 1 year ago
I was shocked to see the remark that Trenary is "better" than Butyrskaya. What??? Jill had three triples, Maria had five. Jill also did not have the same level of spins or choreography as Butyrskaya. Any objective person would have to realize that. Plus, Maria was able to stay competitive for several years longer than Jill was. Finally, Maria did triple triple jumps (triple toe, half loop, triple sal), and a triple lutz double loop; jill, yeah right. I do like Jill, but bad comparison.
mlc2005 1 year ago
@mlc2005 Your comparision is unfair. Jill grew up in the figures era where the top skaters were only training 2 or 3 different types of triples and 4 or 5 triples total. She was unlucky in that she got stuck between 2 eras, she had to wait her turn behind Witt, Thomas, and others as the cutsomary in the figures, then faced younger skaters like Ito, Yamaguchi, Harding, Kerrigan who trained for the free skating era and doing all the triples that werent needed in the figures era.
russianskatingfan 3 months ago
At least she was a good sport about the fact that she won a bronze medal.
safehaven11 1 year ago
This performance is almost as much of a joke as her World Title. Honestly, this woman was so over-rated it isn't even funny. Not only was she ugly, but her skating was boring and she always fell.
thomstephens 1 year ago 2
5.7 for what????? two brilliant single Axels? ridiculous!
kalurank 1 year ago 4
wow how tough must that be to talk to the press directly after a disappointing performance. well i think she did a lot better the following year. And it's not her fault the judging system was really rigged back then. I mean she should never have beaten Kristi in the free skate but that's the judges fault not Jill's she did the best she could - part of performing is mental and that was not her forte.
sk8412c 1 year ago
How can this lousy skater win Midori? It's already impossible even if she skated a clean program.
kev7978 1 year ago
Actually i really like to watch Jill Trenary even though i know the jumps were not there in this program. For anybody who looks for more than jumps in skating, Jill Trenary is wonderful to watch. Others are amazing jumpers but you can't watch them for long because they don't know how to move when they are not jumping. I prefer beautiful skating.
sk8412c 1 year ago
wow those were very high technical merit marks .... how many single axels did she do? and even the double loop was hard for her
lutz84 1 year ago
yay jill didn't win in this championship! she stinks! midori is the best! booo!
kev7978 2 years ago 2
Russianskatingfan, I am sure you were a fan of Maria Butraskia. That was a true joke, her winnning a World title. Jill was heads and shoulder above that hot mess. That is a skater who had no style, could not spin or jump but because she is Russian she is GREAT. yeah right.
skaterdude1962 2 years ago
Well Butyrskaya won her World title with 7 triples, including all 5 types of triple jumps. Jill won hers with 4, and no triple lutz or triple loop. Butyrskaya had higher jumps and stronger jump landings. Her spins are easily better than Jill's, faster with better positions. Her programs are atleast coherent rather than a mishmash of strange music choices like Trenary. Maria also had a chance to win a 2nd title in 2000, while Jill never had a shot any year than 1990. Anymore questions?
russianskatingfan 2 years ago
By the way nobody said Maria was that great or a skating legend. Also no I am not a big fan of Maria, although I admired her fighting qualities I never loved her skating that much. She also is one of the weaker World Champions, but even she is a better skater than Jill is. Exactly what does Jill in her prime (1987 to 1990) do better than Maria in her prime (1998 to 2001) by the way?
russianskatingfan 2 years ago
What's the song?
I hear some Phantom of the Opera.
For Jill, I got to say that she skated dreadfully.
safehaven11 2 years ago
She was at least a good sport about winning the bronze..
safehaven11 2 years ago
This was really a very poor Free Skate of Trenary. Couple of 5.7 for a technical mark were really a joke for me.
rafko30 2 years ago 5
It's hard to believe that Jill Trenary is Oksana's favorite skater.
safehaven11 2 years ago
Compare to Midori, Jill did ...almost nothing.
Although her smile is cute:-).
Windlespoon 2 years ago 5
Wonderful comment!
hermadoodle 2 years ago
Youve almost got to feel sorry for her and other skaters who competed during the time of midori ito, b/c Ito was such a random prodigy, they must have thought: "damn, why did she have to come around now!"
mlc2005 2 years ago 3
Ito only won 1 World title. If there was ever a myth she was unbeatable that is all it ever was, just a myth.
grafgirl27 2 years ago
grafgirl, Ito deserved to win at least 3 World Titles. Maybe 4. She was screwed by the school figures and also marked down because of racism (or at least not having a strong federation) earlier in her career.
Zuranthium 2 years ago 3
You keep acting like the figures didnt exist. In fact I have seen you many times on videos say how such and such a competition should have finished but ignoring figures altogether. Figures were part of skating back then, like it or not, that was just reality, and unfortunately Ito as talented as she was as a free skater struggled mighily with figures most of the time.
grafgirl27 2 years ago
grafgirl - there is no way of telling how skaters actually deserved to place in the figures competition. There isn't good enough documentation.
That aside, they don't deserve credence when determining who the best performers were anyway.
Zuranthium 2 years ago
Well at the Worlds in Halifax there was actual footage of Ito actually hopping away from the circle altogether in one of her figures, something you almost never see from anyone. I think it is safe to say she was legitimately weak in figures most of the time.
grafgirl27 2 years ago
@grafgirl27: jill won worlds 1990 by placing 1st in figures, 3rd in short and 2nd in free. correct me if i'm wrong. midori was 10th in figures and 1st in short short and long. she needed help and kristi had to beat jill to ensure midori won but that did not happen. just correct me if i'm wrong
lexlib 1 year ago
@lexlib 5th in OP
will74lsn 1 year ago
Trenary wasnt the kind of skater who would be a great champion in any era. She isnt a great jumper, spinner, or even artist. She was dominated at various points of her career by Witt, Thomas, Manley, Ito, Yamaguchi, Kerrigan, Harding. In any other era it would be the same as there would be multiple better skaters than her. For her to win 1 world title, 2 world medals, 3 U.S titles, and have a 4th at the Olympics is great enough for her ability. If anything she overachieved.
russianskatingfan 2 years ago
ussianskatingfan, I agree with you--although I wouldn't have phrased it as strongly as you did... Trenary was stunning on the ice, she always had great costumes, and she looked like a champion. Aside from that, there was nothing special about her--and I think Toller Cranston pointed that out at one point (maybe in his CBC commentary?).
nondescriptnyc 2 years ago
Yes I agree with that. Her greatest assets were her skating posture and carriage across the ice (someone like Kadavy was still better here though) and most of all her look on the ice. Her costuming, hair designs, and thinks like her opening and closing poses just all presented her physical beauty very well. Other than that nothing special as you said.
russianskatingfan 2 years ago
She is still an amazing skater, even if she did win bronze.
amernob 3 years ago
Yamaguchi totally deserved Bronze at this championships over Trenary. 5 clean Triples in comparison to 2 and Trenary's performance quality here wasn't anything special.
Zuranthium 3 years ago
So I take it you are disregarding the compulsory figures the same way you disregarded the qualifying round at the 2000 Worlds?
grafgirl27 3 years ago
Of course. I look at the actual skating.
Zuranthium 3 years ago 2
even without midori's triple axel, Joe's performance still pales in comparison to Midori's
gaa927 3 years ago 2
I found the comments by Trenary after the short program that this was not only a Triple Jump Competition just sour grapes, and considering that she only hit one clean triple, the salchow, and turned at least 3 or 4 doubles into singles, more indicative of how much higher Midori Ito was in terms of being the much better skater.
bcollins2007 3 years ago
Ridiculous marks for what she performed! Should have been also behind Yamaguchi and Grossmann....but this was judging in the 80s..reputation counted more than everything else
will74lsn 3 years ago 4
Anyone else glad that because of getting rid of those hideous compulsory figures that mediocre skaters like Jill Trennary would never win another world title again? Midori ito was so superior in the LP in 1990 that it was a sham that she disn't win. All because of those shitty compulsory figures. Jill got her ass beat in both the SP and LP but still won just because Ito was 10th after the school figures.
dsfddsgh 3 years ago 13
Agreed. Thank God the compulsories were abolished.
topjazz69 3 years ago 2
If your hardest jump is a triple flip and you're competing against a triple axel you have to land the flip...2 triples, no doulbe axels...not good.
rfillangi 3 years ago 3
I know. And people expected this program to beat Midori's program. Ito was superior in terms of jumps and spins and charisma. And, YES, I agree... a tentative triple flip against the world's first triple axel - like going to war with a pistol when your enemies got a-bombs! You know what I mean? :)
puaalaaumoe 3 years ago 4
Woo that poofy hair makes me have a horrible flashback. Decent skating. Sucks she had to go after Midori.
RedbeardNC 4 years ago
This is no slam on Trenary's skating or Trenary herself... but OY! that costume! that hair! Jill actually represented the pinnacle of skating glamor in the '80s... but I forgot how horrendous '80s skating fashion really was!
milovy 4 years ago
How many doubles ended up being Single jumps? She didn't even deserve 3rd
bcollins2007 4 years ago 11
Jill beat Kristi in the free skate by 5 judges to 4 for 3rd place in the long program segment.
christopher1980 4 years ago
The interesting thing is I copied the marks for Jill and Claudia, and if the artistic mark is the tiebreaker Jill seemed to win 5 of the 9 judges over Leistner yet finished behind her in the LP and overall. Were the ordinals just muddled between those 3 in the LP (Kristi could not have medaled even with 2nd in the LP anyway) and maybe 1 or 2 others to come up with the final LP and overall results?
muffycat26 4 years ago
Was the presentation mark already the long program tiebreaker in 1989? I thought the tech mark was the tiebreaker in both SP and LP until the 1989-90 season, though I could be wrong.
ronaround74 4 years ago
Thanks for posting, I've never seen this!
FrozenHermit 4 years ago