This lady is lost! I have a copy of the bill. It does include a Public Option! And the Public Option IS government controlled health care, ie. SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!!! She claims we are spreading misinformation, but her whole video is a lie, there is NO bipartisanship in congress or the white house. JUST MARXIST THUGS TRYING TO DESTROY CAPITALISM AND DEMOCRACY!!!!
Rizz77: LOL . I suppose, that's why Obama's economic team is comprised of former high level execs from Goldman Sachs :) Are those the marxists thugs you are talking about? Go back to watching FOX - I think, that's more up your alley.
The same gov't that can't even run the so-called Postal Service "corporation" effectively (when's the last time you saw stamps drop in price?) or Amtrak is gonna run healthcare for all Americans? I don't think so.
Also, big government is just as bad as big business on things like this. Does the Left REALLY wanna substitute "bad" insurance companies for bad gov't? Why not a middle ground where consumers are truly in charge, rather than insurers or gov't? Is that not possible?
For one thing, Medicare and the VA only cover a FRACTION of the total amount of people that would be covered under universal healthcare. There's NO WAY a country of 300 million can be effectively covered under national health insurance. No country with socialized medicine has a population nearly as large as ours. Japan's is only 130 mil. China, as far as I know, does NOT have UHC, not that they'd ever be able to cover 1.5 billion people effectively anyway.
Trust me, you will see dramatic plummeting of costs if this is implemented long-term, and HSAs and MSAs are made much more accessible for workers. Hell, Singapore has a system like this, and even the WHO ranked them SIXTH in the world!! Tiny little Singapore!
I guarantee that esp. in single-payer countries consumers use up far too many healthcare resources simply because they don't have to bear the costs. The gov't will have to somehow ration, and the insurance will have budget shortfalls.
One of the underlying causes of prices constantly rising is the fact that consumers don't really have economic power in the market that they have in other industries. And one of the causes of THAT is obviously the fact that we're insulated from costs because of insurance. If you ask me, insurance probably pays a little too much for treatments and routine procedures. Insurance in healthcare should function like all others: only for catastrophes that are incredibly expensive.
And because insurance pays so much, we probably use healthcare a little too frequently, even when we're not sick. I really don't think this focus on "preventive" medicine is gonna do much, and having people use doctors MORE just for "prevention" will only drive costs up further. It's a stupid way to "cut" costs. You want to reduce costs? Give consumers purchasing power, such as Medical Savings Accounts, so they have the money to pay for their routine checkups and treatments.
farblonjet Naturally there are fewer protestors than boycotters. The whole idea of boycotting is to protest by not showing up. However there are a few Youtubes showing protestors at Whole Foods. Check out Facebook : Whole Foods Boycott, tens of thousands of people have joined this Facebook page committing to the boycott, and thousands more join every week.
farblon Yeah, great idea. Stossel must be a so-called "libertarian" , only the rich should have healthcare by paying cash, then the rest of us would be too sick or dead to work for shelter & food.
Btw, I wrote John Mackey an email telling him he is a total hypocrite. He "claims" to be against govt payment for anything, yet he took my disabled son's Food Stamps as payment to HIS corporation. Whole Foods is not the only game in town for gluten-free products now, so we boycott Mackey.
farblonjet I finally got around to actually reading CEO Mackey's WSJ op-ed. I was in shock from the beginning with his Margaret Thatcher quote, & I cringed and grew more disgusted with every word! I could not understand what all the furor is about to boycott Whole Foods, but now I completely want to go out and protest on the sidewalks in front of Whole Foods and hand out Single Payer flyers!!! I had no clue the CEO of Whole Foods was such a narcississtic bastard, we have been so duped by him!
farblonjet Zogby poll is out. 49% of Americans favor HR3200 type of Universal coverage based on this question:
Universal Plan A - "Do you agree or disagree with a universal healthcare plan that would require everyone in the U.S. to have health insurance with federal help for those who cannot pay the premiums?"
44% favor HR676 type Single Payer Universal Healthcare
w w w. zogby. com/news/ReadNews. cfm?ID=1727
Majority want HR3200, but I don't think it goes far enough for all
farblonjet Whole Foods is unique. It is one of very few corporations with a conscience. We cannot trust the American business sector "free market" & hope that a few will overcome the broken status quo of PROFIT-driven healthcare (I refuse to say private sector anymore, that is a euphimism for the corporate sector). The whole premise of healthcare is PATIENT-driven with Single Payer HR676, Obamacare HR3200 has been watered down by too much compromise with the Republican Party.
Take a look at how badly the government has run any of the "social" programs you mentioned. Have you been to VA hospital? Have you seen Iraq? Have you seen the bridges? Have you seen how the government handled the bailout?
So now you want the FEDERAL government to heal you?
I am a Canadian and the first thing I would do if I got a critical illness is run not walk to the states. In fact I have 200k critical illness insurance just for that.
Get a business going in China and you will live pretty damn well (but they are setting up a universal health care for their people soon so that wont work for you). America is done. A blip in history. The Right and Left both shoved that dagger in the center freedoms heart. We're just a big shopping mall now. We produce nothing but weapons. Heck, even some of that is being outsourced, lol.
To each his own, some people don't mind the VA some do. It's all a matter of what you place a higher value on, costs (aka free) versus time & ease.
To get a little side tracked, look at it like anything else, say a Rolling Stones concert. You have people who will sit in the rain days before tickets go in sales & then people who wait last minute & pay a lot more from a scalper. No one way is better, its all subjective.
If you don't like Socialist programs please withdraw your children from public schools, turn in your library card, don't drive on the Interstate highway, don't use public transportation, tell your mom to send her SS check back & pay cash for doctor visits instead of using Medicare, if your house is on fire put it out yourself & don't call the cops if you get robbed.
I doubt you will do any of those things I listed, they are gov ran . Do you like those things I listed, if so you like Socialism
Mandates were put in to help pay for it, I read the about the mandates when put in & did a video about the $1000 penalty if you refuse to get affordable healthcare, I was like wtf who determines what is affordable. I believe they changes the numbers now to like $800 for business & something like $250 for individuals.
But before you get all Socialism on me, we have very much a similar thing with auto insurance, if you do not have it & get pulled over you pay a very big penalty.
HR3200 is deeply flawed - so, hey, we at least agree on something. But not for the reasons you state. Actually the bill is being written by Congress, and it is supported by REPUBLICANS + Blue Dog Dems., and NOT by so-called liberal democrats. The entire bill is pretty much sponsored by big Pharma + the Private Insurance lobby - so, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from. There is no 'socialism' in this bill, because Obama is FOR the big corporations, not against them.
standforamerica: You are absolutely correct with your observation. And this is precisely why an expansion of a VA-type system - one in each town/community, let's say, would make sense, because then you wouldn't have to rely on the non-free hospital. Besides, many vets cannot afford private care, even if they wanted to. The VA is a measure of last resort, so to speak, but what if such a system was actually expanded? Right now, it's a bureacratic mess, because the demand is too high.
So would the author have us watch Rachel and her twin Keith Olberman?
As if they are lying any less. Some day the lesson will be learn that the republicrat duopoly and their propaganda machines only have their best interests at heart. More for them, less for everyone else.
standforamerica HR3200 doesn't go far enough, I and a growing majority of Americans want HR676. HR676 is ON THE TABLE as of July 31st, so it will be debated and voted upon. Single Payer will be law of the land, and we can finally join the rest of the free Western Industrialized Nations of the world, instead of plummetting even further towards Third World Nation status.
standforamerica National Insurance will be non-profit and cover all. Why do you think these CEOs make millions , and live in mansions? Their clients were denied care or died. France is number one in healthcare, Italy number 2, Canada 30 , and USA 37. Clearly Europeans and Canadians have the advantage over Americans.
Medicaid and Medicare are socialized medicine. When amateurs are in charge, don't expect anything to be done right. There is only one form of government on planet Earth and that is Monetarism. It's about the money, the power and the control and it is certainly not about the debt slaves. Americans are the most stupid people on Earth and have no idea what is going on. The American government is full of idiots but they are representative of their constituents. The USA now serves as a bad example.
rollsthepaul I have heard this on many other blogs from Canadians, Australians & Europeans, that we are stupid. Unfortunately, that is true. There are Americans that ride around in beat-up pick-up trucks that would give their shirt off their back to you, and at the same time vote Republican for these corporate interests instead of their own !
Hey Ella, when the crash comes we will only have each other. Small communities will be the success story of the aftertime. Everyone contributes to the community and no one is excluded for handicaps. Ammunition will be a premium barter item along with the essentials of life. People know in their hearts that helping each other is the moral loving thing to do. At the same time communities must be protected from vermin and there will be plenty. The world will be purged and peace will eventually come
People in small towns and on family farms, or even big business executives; who have done nothing but work for one company there entire lives, are all stuck in a 'Mayberry style' time warp, or else they know about the shysters out there and are very selffess and figure that the shysters won't effect them or there life style in anyway.
The truth is Henry Paulson and Ben Bernake are taking money directly from the Fed and using it as their ' own personal piggy bank ' -they need to be stopped!
The fear mongering has provided cover for the near complete dismantling of this bill in the now traditional "death of 100 cuts" fashion. Yes, it will do something, a few more people wil be covered.
But the most important thing it does is preserve a system which trades health care for obscene executive salaries and cash payouts to investors. It does this primarily by denying coverage, by finding pathetic, legalistic reasons to screw people out of benefits they thought they were entitled to.
farblonjet The real point is this and its SIMPLE: Single Payer is NOT employer based. Everyone will pay LESS in taxes than they do for for-profit private insurance now, that includes both employees AND employers. Everybody's in, everybody wins, EXCEPT the for-profit private "wealthfare" insurance scam industry will be put out of business ... these murderous money-grabbing middlemen will be out of "bizness" FOREVER.
farblonjet You missed my point. You want Socialized Medicine only for soldiers, but Medicare for Seniors allows Seniors to choose private doctors . That is what Single Payer would do for ALL. Soldiers fought for what? Corporate interesests like Halliburton, or human rights for WE THE PEOPLE? I hope they fought for healthcare for all rather than Halliburton.
farblonjet So you are for Socialized Medicine for only soldiers. Why not have Single Payer for all, then soldiers can CHOOSE any private doctors they want, they won't be stuck with govt doctors as their only choice anymore.
Dad is 83 , and loves the VA ! He has Medicare and only complained when Bush had his phoney drug prescription program, so he gets his meds from the VA.
No socialized care in this plan. I'm for single payer as you know Ella, so I don't like Obama's plan any more than what we have now. As for the town hall fracas I support free speech even if what is being said is complete baloney. They should be able to take it without getting their panties in a bunch. The same people who say that these people should just knock it off would be shouting bloody murder if the show were on the other foot.
I'm all for free speech myself, but what is happening at these meetings is a disruption of free speech, not the exercise of it. If they have a point to make, there is a microphone and a time limit and rules. I think it's ok to protest angrily if you and a bunch of other like minded people show up early and you don't get a chance to ask your angry question. But showing up and shouting when you haven't first made every attempt to legitimately participate is sabotage, not democracy, imho.
Thomas Jefferson, "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"
Edmund Burke; "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is forgood men to do nothing."
Obama; I expect to be held responsible for these issues because Im the president. But I dont want the folks that created the mess - I dont want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them just to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess.
But what is your point? I didn't say don't protest, I said don't disrupt a public forum unless you've done your best to use it & been excluded.
I'm a strong believer, btw, in mass civil disobedience, but that is not what this is. There are some people, to be sure, who a true believers and are protesting of their own accord. But there are many more trained in techniques by insurance connected organizations trying to shout down healthcare reform. It's a PR campaign, a very smart & cynical one.
I was under the impression that most of the shouting was coming from people on the right who thought the plan was too restricitive or invasive, not people on the left who thought it wasn't good enough.
How the hell can you expect the gov't to run healthcare for everyone when Medicare alone is 39 trillion in the hole. By the way you've got some mieage on you granny, you'll be one of the first to be offered the painkillers (hospice) and not the surgery (medical care) as Obama staated in his Infomercial.
gajtexcity: oh, I have plenty of miles, no doubt about it. That's why I'm totally in favor of HOSPICE care, because, when it's time to go, I'd rather die at home than in some decrepit nursing home, with juveniles laughing at me, every time I have an uncontrolled bowel movement at the age 80. Have you ever witnessed HOSPICE care? Or visited a nursing home? I suggest you do it soon, before your decision making process becomes too impaired via propaganda.
IMO, the entire Health Care debate is a smoke screen while the Fed monetizes the debt, give's the banksters and elite a free pass, and the new Great American land grab continues the banks won't lend, won't sell cheap, and regardless of the numbers CNBC gives you unemployment rises...
Anyone who thinks we should be worrying about what happens with health care, is still being led around like a child by the powers that be...
stangeriam A couple of facts , the govt represents WE THE PEOPLE in these United States of America. End campaign contributions by corporations to candidates , and WE THE PEOPLE will then see OUR representatives vote for Single Payer Universal Healthcare for all. If you think the govt does not do anything properly, then spend more money to mail your letters and bill payments by Fedex instead of 44cents by the Post Office in any weather, to anywhere in America, from anybody.
Your right...the govt. is SUPPOSED to represent WE THE PEOPLE. BUT...It seems as though they are NOT doing their job FOR THE PPL ANYMORE.... Its ALL about their banker and corporate friends...No??
wuastwais you were talking about the status quo of the US Post Office. I don't have a problem with the status quo of US Post Office. And obviously the astroturfers don't either, I don't see hundreds of JUST SAY NO protesters at their local Post Offices. So what's your beef?
I do not focus on the post office either. My point is that all of these issues are related by government intervention into our lives for the benefit of the politicians and their financial backers.
I wish people could see that this whole healthcare "debate" is flawed. The unanswered and avoided question is, why do we need healthcare reform?
wuastwais You begin with an entirely false premise. In USA, WE are govt, so YES I want my representatives to intervene on MY behalf. Why do we need healthcare reform? This is like asking why do we need to arrest criminals! Of course to protect the PUBLIC. We need healthcare reform to protect PUBLIC from corporate whitecollar criminals who currently ruin our lives with their for-profit "wealthfare" insurance scam. In other free societies it is a FELONY to profit from healthcare!
I agree with you that the current system is bad, but what i am questioning is why is healthcare so cost prohibitive? Why do we have so many poor and needy people in this country without access to healthcare, housing, food, etc.?
People are happy with Medicare, the VA is supposedly run real well & both are ran by the government. I'm not gonna say the government runs things well, but I will say the insurance companies run things like shit, 1/3 of medical costs are due to fucking paper work & do you really want to spend 3 hrs on a phone disputing a claim with some lady in India (outsourced call centers)?
funeralsong34 lol, you said it! Oh joy, I get to call Blue Cross Blue Shield on Monday, ya think I'll get India or Indiana? I'll keep you posted. They denied my claim for my disabled adult son's primary family doctor appt back in February for flu, and just informed my doctor last week. So doctor's group sent me a letter which I received Friday. I've gone through this before with BC/BS, they qualified my son to be on my insurance, but they STILL try to make life hard .
You are kidding, right? Do you not remember the expose on walter reed hospital. That disgrace is actually for active duty military, our veterns get worse care.
Have you honestly not heard of the suicide rate among soldiers returning for the empire's latest wars? There are long waits to even be seen and attempts are made to deny coverage.
My brother had no problems with the VA, you make an appointment & had to fill out a bunch of paperwork. It wasn't as fast as going to your regular doctor but it was faster then waiting in the emergency room.I also don't remember my uncles who served in WWII & Korea complaining about the service at the VA but that was many years ago.
It could be simply different for each hospital/state but he paid zero dollars when he went, free with a wait is still better then not free & a shorter wait.
From what I have read, and I quote, "The bill is designed to insure 94 percent of all Americans (excluding those covered by Medicare, which kicks in at age 65.)" This is interesting because part of how they will pay the estimated 1.5 trillion cost (over 10 years) is $500 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. My Grandfather already has to supplement his Medicare with Secure Horizons because Medicare is insufficient. But they say nothing will change? It's no wonder people are confused.
All I am hearing is "Trust us. It will work." and "No. It won't work!" And that is the extent of the discussions. I want to hear more of how it will work and why. Intelligent discussions seem to be virtually non-existent nowadays.
That why the PEOPLE are acting this way - They want to pass this WITHOUT any discussions - WE (Houseofreps) have not read the bill.. just TRUST us it good for the PEOPLE
From what I gathered in some of Obama's townhall meetings televised they will have cut some from Medicare but not like you think. They are currently paying 279 billion in subsidies(corp welfare) to the insurance companies, that's were half the money is coming from..it does not effect coverage of the Elderly.
The other half will come from reforming how they pay the doctors, currently they pay them by the number of tests, visits the seniors do.
If they pay the doctors more on results rather then having doctors run tests seniors don't need they will have savings, unnecessary tests & visits drives up costs. Obama used the comparison of fixing a car, if your car's transmission breaks down & you have it fixed & then 3 weeks later the trans breaks again would you want to pay the mechanic again to fix the same problem? That's how Medicare works atm, your sick they get paid, you come back next week for same problem they get paid.
Freedom of speech does NOT protect someone yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. Should that limitation not also extend to people who go on television to say the government wants to kill old people? The liars like Rush, Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the staff of Fox News should all be prosecuted, not for exercising their right to express an opinion, but for inciting the public by stating blatant lies as facts. They are yelling "FIRE!" when there is no fire, and they are hurting people.
I'm so incredibly upset with what's going on in this country. I plan to do a video on the same subject, but each time I have tried, my emotions get the better of me.
Fox News should be sued for spreading lies, and scaring the hell out of the elderly in this country with their lies.
@Maiyanna, This is a lot like the Conservatives who scream drill drill drill, referring to Oil in America. I say let em do it. Once they waste Capital, effort, resources & get very little in return then we can get to working on alternative energy.
Same here, let em ditch the healtcare, then when more of these people lose jobs, their kids lose their jobs & their is no healthcare for them they will be screaming for the Goverment to do something. Until then they belive this is a socialistic coup
Page 50 Section 152 - HC will be provided to ALL US citizens, non US citizens, illegal or otherwise : please note: this is from the bill that had 1017 pages - I think ithe bill now has over 1400 pages
YOU ARE LYING. It says nothing close to what you said, NOTHING!!! Where did you get your information because it is not from page 50 or section 152 of HR3200.
The only thing you said that was true was that it is 1017 pages long.
It says you can't be racist, a bigot, not provide care due to someone being fat,etc. I says nothing of allowing anyone that doesn't have this health plan of using the health plan.
I believe I know what he is referring to, its not as bad as he's making it sound. It has something in it that would allow you to extend your coverage to your spouse or children even if they are illegal. Obviously someone married to an American citizen would not be a US citizen upon marriage, they would have the 2 yr waiting period & have to apply for citizenship. So I think that's what the far right nuts are using as fear tactics, you'll have to pay for illegal's healthcare..lol
BaltimoreSandra: the first thing to understand is this: I am as frustrated and angry as everybody else, so this does not mean, that I am against you personally. The healthcare bill(s) on the table now, and I have read the summaries, is not good, because it's essentially sponsored by big Pharma + private insurance to start with. So, we agree on that point. But Glen Beck is simply an asshole, because he stirs up hatred, pitting people against each other + this precisely what the elite wants.
I agree with your point ella, but the left is doing it too:
watch?v=oZ3tCeBaNik
There is no healthcare debate of any consequence. Whether a "public option" is provided or not, special interests will be provided for. Real solutions would require real debate. The leadership of both parties are incapable of defending their positions on merit, so i believe they support this right/left anger and fear festival in place of civilised public debate.
I know, watching "Healthcare For All !"become "a public option" and now further defanged to not even be that has been a depressing lesson in how bought and paid for our system is.
We are a fat, complacent nation. I was very surprised to hear my conservative, first generation Swiss mom talk about how Americans don't get upset about anything.
I think a large part of it is the forces arrayed against us are much more sophisticated than most suspect. There's a psychological component to political movements now that is both fascinating and terrifying. Pressure is applied on both sides, always the side out of power, to keep things the way they are.
Oh well. Enjoy your' waiting 18 months for that hip replacement, old man. You want crappy govt. run health care? Go to an Indian reservation. Better yet get the hell out of here, move to Canada.
Actually, my wife and I pay more for our family plan than some of my friends make in a year. Part of why I'm for single payer is I couldn't imagine it being more expensive.
I'd be all for private insurance if it saved more money than it made in profits, but I think that is clearly not the case. Since it is not the case, the relationship of insurance to the greater society is strictly parasitic, it is a drain and we would be better of without it.
Why would one have to wait like that? Are you trying to put baseless lies and fears into peoples heads? Does it take that long under MediCare? How about if he has "good" insurance and is denied the hip replacement altogether? This happens all to often. Why don't you want Americans to have access to an affordable health care OPTION? You must work for the insurance industry.
not a good rebuttal. Have you read the bill? I have gotten thru 100 pages. It is an abomination. Actually read it. That is an issue. Single Payer is the way to go.
Could you give a specific passage of this abomination? Any will do. Certainly if it is that bad, you can at least find one point to bring to the table.
Feel free to PM the pages or sections that you disagree with. Thanx in advance.
Not all of it. Have looked at the parts that people said were eugenics and the rest of the conspiracy garbage. Some other pages.
That said, because I asked you to give actual merit to your "abomination" claim does not mean I read the whole bill. I also was not accusing you, but asking you for evidence of your claim and this is what all people should do.
I have made no claims other than the conspiracy garbage and leaps of logic are wrong and easily disprovable.
This lady is lost! I have a copy of the bill. It does include a Public Option! And the Public Option IS government controlled health care, ie. SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!!! She claims we are spreading misinformation, but her whole video is a lie, there is NO bipartisanship in congress or the white house. JUST MARXIST THUGS TRYING TO DESTROY CAPITALISM AND DEMOCRACY!!!!
TheBigRizz77 2 years ago
Rizz77: LOL . I suppose, that's why Obama's economic team is comprised of former high level execs from Goldman Sachs :) Are those the marxists thugs you are talking about? Go back to watching FOX - I think, that's more up your alley.
55ella2007k 2 years ago
The same gov't that can't even run the so-called Postal Service "corporation" effectively (when's the last time you saw stamps drop in price?) or Amtrak is gonna run healthcare for all Americans? I don't think so.
Also, big government is just as bad as big business on things like this. Does the Left REALLY wanna substitute "bad" insurance companies for bad gov't? Why not a middle ground where consumers are truly in charge, rather than insurers or gov't? Is that not possible?
whoo689 2 years ago 3
For one thing, Medicare and the VA only cover a FRACTION of the total amount of people that would be covered under universal healthcare. There's NO WAY a country of 300 million can be effectively covered under national health insurance. No country with socialized medicine has a population nearly as large as ours. Japan's is only 130 mil. China, as far as I know, does NOT have UHC, not that they'd ever be able to cover 1.5 billion people effectively anyway.
whoo689 2 years ago
Trust me, you will see dramatic plummeting of costs if this is implemented long-term, and HSAs and MSAs are made much more accessible for workers. Hell, Singapore has a system like this, and even the WHO ranked them SIXTH in the world!! Tiny little Singapore!
I guarantee that esp. in single-payer countries consumers use up far too many healthcare resources simply because they don't have to bear the costs. The gov't will have to somehow ration, and the insurance will have budget shortfalls.
whoo689 2 years ago
One of the underlying causes of prices constantly rising is the fact that consumers don't really have economic power in the market that they have in other industries. And one of the causes of THAT is obviously the fact that we're insulated from costs because of insurance. If you ask me, insurance probably pays a little too much for treatments and routine procedures. Insurance in healthcare should function like all others: only for catastrophes that are incredibly expensive.
whoo689 2 years ago
And because insurance pays so much, we probably use healthcare a little too frequently, even when we're not sick. I really don't think this focus on "preventive" medicine is gonna do much, and having people use doctors MORE just for "prevention" will only drive costs up further. It's a stupid way to "cut" costs. You want to reduce costs? Give consumers purchasing power, such as Medical Savings Accounts, so they have the money to pay for their routine checkups and treatments.
whoo689 2 years ago
farblonjet Naturally there are fewer protestors than boycotters. The whole idea of boycotting is to protest by not showing up. However there are a few Youtubes showing protestors at Whole Foods. Check out Facebook : Whole Foods Boycott, tens of thousands of people have joined this Facebook page committing to the boycott, and thousands more join every week.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
farblonjet ummm, boycotters don't show up.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
farblon Yeah, great idea. Stossel must be a so-called "libertarian" , only the rich should have healthcare by paying cash, then the rest of us would be too sick or dead to work for shelter & food.
Btw, I wrote John Mackey an email telling him he is a total hypocrite. He "claims" to be against govt payment for anything, yet he took my disabled son's Food Stamps as payment to HIS corporation. Whole Foods is not the only game in town for gluten-free products now, so we boycott Mackey.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
Just look at the other democratic social programs, Social security = going broke, medicare = going broke, medicaid = going broke,
both parties have run up a 10,000,000,000,000.00 dollar debt. HEY, I have an idea, let's have these same people run our healthcare system. NOT@
Maxwedge12000 2 years ago
farblonjet I finally got around to actually reading CEO Mackey's WSJ op-ed. I was in shock from the beginning with his Margaret Thatcher quote, & I cringed and grew more disgusted with every word! I could not understand what all the furor is about to boycott Whole Foods, but now I completely want to go out and protest on the sidewalks in front of Whole Foods and hand out Single Payer flyers!!! I had no clue the CEO of Whole Foods was such a narcississtic bastard, we have been so duped by him!
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
farblonjet Zogby poll is out. 49% of Americans favor HR3200 type of Universal coverage based on this question:
Universal Plan A - "Do you agree or disagree with a universal healthcare plan that would require everyone in the U.S. to have health insurance with federal help for those who cannot pay the premiums?"
44% favor HR676 type Single Payer Universal Healthcare
w w w. zogby. com/news/ReadNews. cfm?ID=1727
Majority want HR3200, but I don't think it goes far enough for all
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
farblonjet Whole Foods is unique. It is one of very few corporations with a conscience. We cannot trust the American business sector "free market" & hope that a few will overcome the broken status quo of PROFIT-driven healthcare (I refuse to say private sector anymore, that is a euphimism for the corporate sector). The whole premise of healthcare is PATIENT-driven with Single Payer HR676, Obamacare HR3200 has been watered down by too much compromise with the Republican Party.
We need CHANGE
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
Comment removed
BAhern63 2 years ago
I am on Medicaid and it is quite adequate even for me, being rather high maintenance.
Go ahead y'all can call me a slug now... I really don't give a flying fuck what you think of me.
paddedshell 2 years ago
Take a look at how badly the government has run any of the "social" programs you mentioned. Have you been to VA hospital? Have you seen Iraq? Have you seen the bridges? Have you seen how the government handled the bailout?
So now you want the FEDERAL government to heal you?
I am a Canadian and the first thing I would do if I got a critical illness is run not walk to the states. In fact I have 200k critical illness insurance just for that.
davincij15 2 years ago
Nice try. You are not Canadian.
medicatedsaint 2 years ago
Yes, I am I live in Toronto (Mississauga to be exact) and I always wanted to be an American. Not any more. :(
davincij15 2 years ago
Get a business going in China and you will live pretty damn well (but they are setting up a universal health care for their people soon so that wont work for you). America is done. A blip in history. The Right and Left both shoved that dagger in the center freedoms heart. We're just a big shopping mall now. We produce nothing but weapons. Heck, even some of that is being outsourced, lol.
medicatedsaint 2 years ago
To each his own, some people don't mind the VA some do. It's all a matter of what you place a higher value on, costs (aka free) versus time & ease.
To get a little side tracked, look at it like anything else, say a Rolling Stones concert. You have people who will sit in the rain days before tickets go in sales & then people who wait last minute & pay a lot more from a scalper. No one way is better, its all subjective.
funeralsong34 2 years ago
If you don't like Socialist programs please withdraw your children from public schools, turn in your library card, don't drive on the Interstate highway, don't use public transportation, tell your mom to send her SS check back & pay cash for doctor visits instead of using Medicare, if your house is on fire put it out yourself & don't call the cops if you get robbed.
I doubt you will do any of those things I listed, they are gov ran . Do you like those things I listed, if so you like Socialism
funeralsong34 2 years ago
Mandates were put in to help pay for it, I read the about the mandates when put in & did a video about the $1000 penalty if you refuse to get affordable healthcare, I was like wtf who determines what is affordable. I believe they changes the numbers now to like $800 for business & something like $250 for individuals.
But before you get all Socialism on me, we have very much a similar thing with auto insurance, if you do not have it & get pulled over you pay a very big penalty.
funeralsong34 2 years ago
The author actually tried to dispute the argument that they are incompetent to run it?
They have PROVE they are incompetent to handle Medicare and Medicaid, which only cover a small portion of us.
How could they possibley handle a program with ALL of us on it?
That's like giving a flock of 3000 sheep to a shepherd who has proven incapable of managing 40!!!
eslake 2 years ago
HR3200 is deeply flawed - so, hey, we at least agree on something. But not for the reasons you state. Actually the bill is being written by Congress, and it is supported by REPUBLICANS + Blue Dog Dems., and NOT by so-called liberal democrats. The entire bill is pretty much sponsored by big Pharma + the Private Insurance lobby - so, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from. There is no 'socialism' in this bill, because Obama is FOR the big corporations, not against them.
55ella2007k 2 years ago
standforamerica: You are absolutely correct with your observation. And this is precisely why an expansion of a VA-type system - one in each town/community, let's say, would make sense, because then you wouldn't have to rely on the non-free hospital. Besides, many vets cannot afford private care, even if they wanted to. The VA is a measure of last resort, so to speak, but what if such a system was actually expanded? Right now, it's a bureacratic mess, because the demand is too high.
55ella2007k 2 years ago
So would the author have us watch Rachel and her twin Keith Olberman?
As if they are lying any less. Some day the lesson will be learn that the republicrat duopoly and their propaganda machines only have their best interests at heart. More for them, less for everyone else.
There is no "change"
Y3rMawm 2 years ago
standforamerica HR3200 doesn't go far enough, I and a growing majority of Americans want HR676. HR676 is ON THE TABLE as of July 31st, so it will be debated and voted upon. Single Payer will be law of the land, and we can finally join the rest of the free Western Industrialized Nations of the world, instead of plummetting even further towards Third World Nation status.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
standforamerica National Insurance will be non-profit and cover all. Why do you think these CEOs make millions , and live in mansions? Their clients were denied care or died. France is number one in healthcare, Italy number 2, Canada 30 , and USA 37. Clearly Europeans and Canadians have the advantage over Americans.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
When you say non-profit, i think:
The federal reserve is also a non-profit company. It is owned by the wealthy bankers, and have full control of monetary policy for the u.s.
You say cover all, i think:
They have no competition and are not forced to raise quality or lower costs, instead the opposite will be true.
wuastwais 2 years ago
Medicaid and Medicare are socialized medicine. When amateurs are in charge, don't expect anything to be done right. There is only one form of government on planet Earth and that is Monetarism. It's about the money, the power and the control and it is certainly not about the debt slaves. Americans are the most stupid people on Earth and have no idea what is going on. The American government is full of idiots but they are representative of their constituents. The USA now serves as a bad example.
rollsthepaul 2 years ago
rollsthepaul I have heard this on many other blogs from Canadians, Australians & Europeans, that we are stupid. Unfortunately, that is true. There are Americans that ride around in beat-up pick-up trucks that would give their shirt off their back to you, and at the same time vote Republican for these corporate interests instead of their own !
Yankhadenough 2 years ago 4
Hey Ella, when the crash comes we will only have each other. Small communities will be the success story of the aftertime. Everyone contributes to the community and no one is excluded for handicaps. Ammunition will be a premium barter item along with the essentials of life. People know in their hearts that helping each other is the moral loving thing to do. At the same time communities must be protected from vermin and there will be plenty. The world will be purged and peace will eventually come
rollsthepaul 2 years ago
Great points. Thanks, Ella.
jayraskin 2 years ago
Ugh... First this is laden with lies, and second it's absolutely moronic.
... And while you're at it, read the constitution.
parker314 2 years ago
It's near incredulous to me that at this juncture, we're still asking the wrong questions.
What if I oppose taxpayer-funded programs altogether?
What if I believe that a true representative government would be better at managing both foreign and domestic policy? Where's my voice?
Oh yeah, I forgot, I'm a debt slave; I have no opinion. The bankers decide what's best for me!
wetalmorker 2 years ago 2
People in small towns and on family farms, or even big business executives; who have done nothing but work for one company there entire lives, are all stuck in a 'Mayberry style' time warp, or else they know about the shysters out there and are very selffess and figure that the shysters won't effect them or there life style in anyway.
The truth is Henry Paulson and Ben Bernake are taking money directly from the Fed and using it as their ' own personal piggy bank ' -they need to be stopped!
kjack5 2 years ago 2
You points are about as week as they get.
TheNanceGreggs 2 years ago
Your points!-your points!-the only time you don't need to think with your fingers is when you is scraching your assa!
kjack5 2 years ago
The fear mongering has provided cover for the near complete dismantling of this bill in the now traditional "death of 100 cuts" fashion. Yes, it will do something, a few more people wil be covered.
But the most important thing it does is preserve a system which trades health care for obscene executive salaries and cash payouts to investors. It does this primarily by denying coverage, by finding pathetic, legalistic reasons to screw people out of benefits they thought they were entitled to.
FeelFreeToArgue 2 years ago 4
Glen Beck Sucks!
JoeShmoe65 2 years ago
farblonjet The real point is this and its SIMPLE: Single Payer is NOT employer based. Everyone will pay LESS in taxes than they do for for-profit private insurance now, that includes both employees AND employers. Everybody's in, everybody wins, EXCEPT the for-profit private "wealthfare" insurance scam industry will be put out of business ... these murderous money-grabbing middlemen will be out of "bizness" FOREVER.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
mine are dead.
popebenadict16 2 years ago
farblonjet You missed my point. You want Socialized Medicine only for soldiers, but Medicare for Seniors allows Seniors to choose private doctors . That is what Single Payer would do for ALL. Soldiers fought for what? Corporate interesests like Halliburton, or human rights for WE THE PEOPLE? I hope they fought for healthcare for all rather than Halliburton.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
farblonjet So you are for Socialized Medicine for only soldiers. Why not have Single Payer for all, then soldiers can CHOOSE any private doctors they want, they won't be stuck with govt doctors as their only choice anymore.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
farblonjet Your grandfather can keep his private doctors with Single Payer, just as with Medicare.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
Dad is 83 , and loves the VA ! He has Medicare and only complained when Bush had his phoney drug prescription program, so he gets his meds from the VA.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
Makes me wonder do the people really know these people they elect to congress, same goes for my country though
womblefree 2 years ago
Well read, 55ella2007k!
FriedDaisy 2 years ago
people forget the last 9 years of FOX???
WTF?
NibiruMagick2012 2 years ago
No socialized care in this plan. I'm for single payer as you know Ella, so I don't like Obama's plan any more than what we have now. As for the town hall fracas I support free speech even if what is being said is complete baloney. They should be able to take it without getting their panties in a bunch. The same people who say that these people should just knock it off would be shouting bloody murder if the show were on the other foot.
tenebroust 2 years ago 3
I'm all for free speech myself, but what is happening at these meetings is a disruption of free speech, not the exercise of it. If they have a point to make, there is a microphone and a time limit and rules. I think it's ok to protest angrily if you and a bunch of other like minded people show up early and you don't get a chance to ask your angry question. But showing up and shouting when you haven't first made every attempt to legitimately participate is sabotage, not democracy, imho.
FeelFreeToArgue 2 years ago 2
Thomas Jefferson, "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"
Edmund Burke; "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is forgood men to do nothing."
Obama; I expect to be held responsible for these issues because Im the president. But I dont want the folks that created the mess - I dont want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them just to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess.
dkkght46 2 years ago
But what is your point? I didn't say don't protest, I said don't disrupt a public forum unless you've done your best to use it & been excluded.
I'm a strong believer, btw, in mass civil disobedience, but that is not what this is. There are some people, to be sure, who a true believers and are protesting of their own accord. But there are many more trained in techniques by insurance connected organizations trying to shout down healthcare reform. It's a PR campaign, a very smart & cynical one.
FeelFreeToArgue 2 years ago 2
Ok a PR campaign, that include groups such as HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICA NOW (HCAN) = ACORN, AFL-CIO, AFT, UAW, MOVEON, LA RAZA, NEA, SEIU.
dkkght46 2 years ago
I was under the impression that most of the shouting was coming from people on the right who thought the plan was too restricitive or invasive, not people on the left who thought it wasn't good enough.
FeelFreeToArgue 2 years ago
How the hell can you expect the gov't to run healthcare for everyone when Medicare alone is 39 trillion in the hole. By the way you've got some mieage on you granny, you'll be one of the first to be offered the painkillers (hospice) and not the surgery (medical care) as Obama staated in his Infomercial.
gajtexcity 2 years ago
gajtexcity: oh, I have plenty of miles, no doubt about it. That's why I'm totally in favor of HOSPICE care, because, when it's time to go, I'd rather die at home than in some decrepit nursing home, with juveniles laughing at me, every time I have an uncontrolled bowel movement at the age 80. Have you ever witnessed HOSPICE care? Or visited a nursing home? I suggest you do it soon, before your decision making process becomes too impaired via propaganda.
55ella2007k 2 years ago
Mind you, seeing the way that governments ran the Iraq war, I'm not sure that privatising the military is such a bad idea. ;o)
ScreamingTc 2 years ago
wow
VikingNinjitsu 2 years ago
I think Blackwater is an example of why that is a bad idea.
Seeber420 2 years ago
IMO, the entire Health Care debate is a smoke screen while the Fed monetizes the debt, give's the banksters and elite a free pass, and the new Great American land grab continues the banks won't lend, won't sell cheap, and regardless of the numbers CNBC gives you unemployment rises...
Anyone who thinks we should be worrying about what happens with health care, is still being led around like a child by the powers that be...
3dbeing 2 years ago
OWP and I have recently discussed this in depth.....I may vlog my stance more clearly. Heathcare is a huge issue.....
jakluk4 2 years ago
hey, look what I'm dealing with, go check out OlGreyWolf58's video and look in the comments, Be back later.
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
they took down a couple of comment i put up a few minutes ago
chevs911truth 2 years ago
Just a couple of facts...
More govt means increased loss of freedoms...
Not to mention the increase of taxes (really f#*king
smart during a recession or depression),
and ANYTHING the government gets there filthy hands on ...they WILL NOT get the job done properly anyhow....
What is there to debate???
stangeriam 2 years ago 2
stangeriam A couple of facts , the govt represents WE THE PEOPLE in these United States of America. End campaign contributions by corporations to candidates , and WE THE PEOPLE will then see OUR representatives vote for Single Payer Universal Healthcare for all. If you think the govt does not do anything properly, then spend more money to mail your letters and bill payments by Fedex instead of 44cents by the Post Office in any weather, to anywhere in America, from anybody.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
Your right...the govt. is SUPPOSED to represent WE THE PEOPLE. BUT...It seems as though they are NOT doing their job FOR THE PPL ANYMORE.... Its ALL about their banker and corporate friends...No??
stangeriam 2 years ago 2
Did you do realize that it is against the law to complete against the postal service in first class mail delivery?
wuastwais 2 years ago
wuastwais No, but that makes sense. Having so many delivery trucks going to everybody's mailbox everyday would be chaotic.
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
Yankhadenough , makes me sad that you shrug off the fact that you did not know, and immediately agree with the status quo.
wuastwais 2 years ago
wuastwais you were talking about the status quo of the US Post Office. I don't have a problem with the status quo of US Post Office. And obviously the astroturfers don't either, I don't see hundreds of JUST SAY NO protesters at their local Post Offices. So what's your beef?
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
I do not focus on the post office either. My point is that all of these issues are related by government intervention into our lives for the benefit of the politicians and their financial backers.
I wish people could see that this whole healthcare "debate" is flawed. The unanswered and avoided question is, why do we need healthcare reform?
wuastwais 2 years ago
wuastwais You begin with an entirely false premise. In USA, WE are govt, so YES I want my representatives to intervene on MY behalf. Why do we need healthcare reform? This is like asking why do we need to arrest criminals! Of course to protect the PUBLIC. We need healthcare reform to protect PUBLIC from corporate whitecollar criminals who currently ruin our lives with their for-profit "wealthfare" insurance scam. In other free societies it is a FELONY to profit from healthcare!
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
I agree with you that the current system is bad, but what i am questioning is why is healthcare so cost prohibitive? Why do we have so many poor and needy people in this country without access to healthcare, housing, food, etc.?
wuastwais 2 years ago
People are happy with Medicare, the VA is supposedly run real well & both are ran by the government. I'm not gonna say the government runs things well, but I will say the insurance companies run things like shit, 1/3 of medical costs are due to fucking paper work & do you really want to spend 3 hrs on a phone disputing a claim with some lady in India (outsourced call centers)?
funeralsong34 2 years ago
funny, I hear people complaining about Medicare and VA care constantly.
bootme21 2 years ago 2
funeralsong34 lol, you said it! Oh joy, I get to call Blue Cross Blue Shield on Monday, ya think I'll get India or Indiana? I'll keep you posted. They denied my claim for my disabled adult son's primary family doctor appt back in February for flu, and just informed my doctor last week. So doctor's group sent me a letter which I received Friday. I've gone through this before with BC/BS, they qualified my son to be on my insurance, but they STILL try to make life hard .
Yankhadenough 2 years ago
You are kidding, right? Do you not remember the expose on walter reed hospital. That disgrace is actually for active duty military, our veterns get worse care.
Have you honestly not heard of the suicide rate among soldiers returning for the empire's latest wars? There are long waits to even be seen and attempts are made to deny coverage.
wuastwais 2 years ago
My brother had no problems with the VA, you make an appointment & had to fill out a bunch of paperwork. It wasn't as fast as going to your regular doctor but it was faster then waiting in the emergency room.I also don't remember my uncles who served in WWII & Korea complaining about the service at the VA but that was many years ago.
It could be simply different for each hospital/state but he paid zero dollars when he went, free with a wait is still better then not free & a shorter wait.
funeralsong34 2 years ago
I would suggest you look into it more.
wuastwais 2 years ago
From what I have read, and I quote, "The bill is designed to insure 94 percent of all Americans (excluding those covered by Medicare, which kicks in at age 65.)" This is interesting because part of how they will pay the estimated 1.5 trillion cost (over 10 years) is $500 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. My Grandfather already has to supplement his Medicare with Secure Horizons because Medicare is insufficient. But they say nothing will change? It's no wonder people are confused.
skeil909 2 years ago
All I am hearing is "Trust us. It will work." and "No. It won't work!" And that is the extent of the discussions. I want to hear more of how it will work and why. Intelligent discussions seem to be virtually non-existent nowadays.
skeil909 2 years ago 2
That why the PEOPLE are acting this way - They want to pass this WITHOUT any discussions - WE (Houseofreps) have not read the bill.. just TRUST us it good for the PEOPLE
Powdermonkey99 2 years ago
From what I gathered in some of Obama's townhall meetings televised they will have cut some from Medicare but not like you think. They are currently paying 279 billion in subsidies(corp welfare) to the insurance companies, that's were half the money is coming from..it does not effect coverage of the Elderly.
The other half will come from reforming how they pay the doctors, currently they pay them by the number of tests, visits the seniors do.
funeralsong34 2 years ago
If they pay the doctors more on results rather then having doctors run tests seniors don't need they will have savings, unnecessary tests & visits drives up costs. Obama used the comparison of fixing a car, if your car's transmission breaks down & you have it fixed & then 3 weeks later the trans breaks again would you want to pay the mechanic again to fix the same problem? That's how Medicare works atm, your sick they get paid, you come back next week for same problem they get paid.
funeralsong34 2 years ago
THEY are not listening to the people...passing bad bills after bad bill ---- now EVERONE is listening and you want US to stop - I dont think so...
Powdermonkey99 2 years ago 4
Freedom of speech does NOT protect someone yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. Should that limitation not also extend to people who go on television to say the government wants to kill old people? The liars like Rush, Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the staff of Fox News should all be prosecuted, not for exercising their right to express an opinion, but for inciting the public by stating blatant lies as facts. They are yelling "FIRE!" when there is no fire, and they are hurting people.
Largo64 2 years ago 3
I agree with you.
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
You're so right Larry! "Yelling Fire"
Maiyanna 2 years ago
I agree throw those nutjob Fox news in jail for encouraging violence.
funeralsong34 2 years ago 2
I'm so incredibly upset with what's going on in this country. I plan to do a video on the same subject, but each time I have tried, my emotions get the better of me.
Fox News should be sued for spreading lies, and scaring the hell out of the elderly in this country with their lies.
Maiyanna 2 years ago 2
@Maiyanna, This is a lot like the Conservatives who scream drill drill drill, referring to Oil in America. I say let em do it. Once they waste Capital, effort, resources & get very little in return then we can get to working on alternative energy.
Same here, let em ditch the healtcare, then when more of these people lose jobs, their kids lose their jobs & their is no healthcare for them they will be screaming for the Goverment to do something. Until then they belive this is a socialistic coup
valhala56 2 years ago
not a left or right wing thing its an american issue
wrathmaster 2 years ago
When are you going to unblock me? It's been over a year and I said I was sorry.
valhala56 2 years ago
I don't think you're blocked? I received your comments. ;)
Maiyanna 2 years ago
Oops, you were blocked, I just unblocked you. Sorry.
Maiyanna 2 years ago
What a joke!
Comparing health care to highways LOL
Come on Ella, you can do better than that!
And why do you keep blaming GB? I don't watch him and I know plenty about the horrible bill.
Ella, have you read this bill? I read some and didn't need to read any more!
BaltimoreSandra 2 years ago
Exactly, because health care is more important than highways.
Please offer something about the bill that you disagree with, page number, section number, anything.
If this bill is horrible, please give an example.
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
Page 50 Section 152 - HC will be provided to ALL US citizens, non US citizens, illegal or otherwise : please note: this is from the bill that had 1017 pages - I think ithe bill now has over 1400 pages
Powdermonkey99 2 years ago
YOU ARE LYING. It says nothing close to what you said, NOTHING!!! Where did you get your information because it is not from page 50 or section 152 of HR3200.
The only thing you said that was true was that it is 1017 pages long.
Do you have another source???
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
Than what does it say?
Powdermonkey99 2 years ago
It says you can't be racist, a bigot, not provide care due to someone being fat,etc. I says nothing of allowing anyone that doesn't have this health plan of using the health plan.
I'll help you out, go read it...
extraneous: not belonging or proper to a thing
provision: a clause in a legal instrument, a law
I'll be be back later...
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
Comment removed
Powdermonkey99 2 years ago
I believe I know what he is referring to, its not as bad as he's making it sound. It has something in it that would allow you to extend your coverage to your spouse or children even if they are illegal. Obviously someone married to an American citizen would not be a US citizen upon marriage, they would have the 2 yr waiting period & have to apply for citizenship. So I think that's what the far right nuts are using as fear tactics, you'll have to pay for illegal's healthcare..lol
funeralsong34 2 years ago
I'm sure you can debunk some but not all.
Enjoy and hope youre not self employed as I am.
freerepublic. com/focus/news/2300451/posts
BaltimoreSandra 2 years ago
I'll debunk anything not true. Check out OlGreyWolf58's vid, I have begun. Be back later.
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
SEC 152 PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.
So you say - a HC Provider can DISCRIMINATE if you are a non-US citizens.... It DOES NOT say this... I would win court
Powdermonkey99 2 years ago
BaltimoreSandra: the first thing to understand is this: I am as frustrated and angry as everybody else, so this does not mean, that I am against you personally. The healthcare bill(s) on the table now, and I have read the summaries, is not good, because it's essentially sponsored by big Pharma + private insurance to start with. So, we agree on that point. But Glen Beck is simply an asshole, because he stirs up hatred, pitting people against each other + this precisely what the elite wants.
55ella2007k 2 years ago
I agree with your point ella, but the left is doing it too:
watch?v=oZ3tCeBaNik
There is no healthcare debate of any consequence. Whether a "public option" is provided or not, special interests will be provided for. Real solutions would require real debate. The leadership of both parties are incapable of defending their positions on merit, so i believe they support this right/left anger and fear festival in place of civilised public debate.
wuastwais 2 years ago
I'm sorry Ella but your first video you called people who want proof of O's Birth Certificate racist. This to me is personal.
I want to see it proven and I am far from a racist.
The name calling needs to stop or racism will NEVER go away!
BaltimoreSandra 2 years ago
The fact the so called liberals or left wing are a joke in my opinion.
My reasoning behind this is where are they in the debate. why are they not fighting back to those right wing fruitcake?
theracemixer 2 years ago 2
I'm with ya there.
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
Thanks
theracemixer 2 years ago
I know, watching "Healthcare For All !"become "a public option" and now further defanged to not even be that has been a depressing lesson in how bought and paid for our system is.
FeelFreeToArgue 2 years ago
The problem is the public (Americans)
If you were to try and takeaway the free public health care where i am that politician would be hanging in a lamp post.
Nothing in life is free if you guys want the public option you have to fight for not just sitting on you'r ass and complaining on YT.
If i was to advise you guys i would organise a million man march kind of protest in every state 24/7 until you get you'r way.
theracemixer 2 years ago
We are a fat, complacent nation. I was very surprised to hear my conservative, first generation Swiss mom talk about how Americans don't get upset about anything.
I think a large part of it is the forces arrayed against us are much more sophisticated than most suspect. There's a psychological component to political movements now that is both fascinating and terrifying. Pressure is applied on both sides, always the side out of power, to keep things the way they are.
FeelFreeToArgue 2 years ago
Well, what a great way to lose subscribers. Bye-bye
leebob86 2 years ago
See ya...
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
unsub because you disagree with Ella on an issue? hahaha classic. and we wonder why this country is falling to shit.
jakluk4 2 years ago 3
Interesting that this was the vid that tipped it for you. Your desire for private, profit making insurance is that intense?
FeelFreeToArgue 2 years ago
Oh well. Enjoy your' waiting 18 months for that hip replacement, old man. You want crappy govt. run health care? Go to an Indian reservation. Better yet get the hell out of here, move to Canada.
leebob86 2 years ago
Actually, my wife and I pay more for our family plan than some of my friends make in a year. Part of why I'm for single payer is I couldn't imagine it being more expensive.
I'd be all for private insurance if it saved more money than it made in profits, but I think that is clearly not the case. Since it is not the case, the relationship of insurance to the greater society is strictly parasitic, it is a drain and we would be better of without it.
FeelFreeToArgue 2 years ago
Since when does Privet anything to you'r benefit?
The only way Privet health care can make money is by cutting cost that means they will fuck you over.
Here we have a saying
"Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves"
The privet health care company will squeeze you for every pennies thus they make billions
theracemixer 2 years ago
Why would one have to wait like that? Are you trying to put baseless lies and fears into peoples heads? Does it take that long under MediCare? How about if he has "good" insurance and is denied the hip replacement altogether? This happens all to often. Why don't you want Americans to have access to an affordable health care OPTION? You must work for the insurance industry.
SuperEvilC 2 years ago 2
Lady, your a nut.
johnm295 2 years ago
So you follow Glenn beck?
citizenkong 2 years ago 2
Do you actually have something to debate or is name calling your response to people who use facts?
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
name calling is for the weak minded who can resort to nothing more. truly pathetic.
jakluk4 2 years ago
shut up stupid
VikingNinjitsu 2 years ago
hahaha youre a shinning example!
jakluk4 2 years ago 3
not a good rebuttal. Have you read the bill? I have gotten thru 100 pages. It is an abomination. Actually read it. That is an issue. Single Payer is the way to go.
OlGreyWolf58 2 years ago
Could you give a specific passage of this abomination? Any will do. Certainly if it is that bad, you can at least find one point to bring to the table.
Feel free to PM the pages or sections that you disagree with. Thanx in advance.
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
I put up a vid. Please debunk it.
OlGreyWolf58 2 years ago
Have you read the bill?
OlGreyWolf58 2 years ago
Not all of it. Have looked at the parts that people said were eugenics and the rest of the conspiracy garbage. Some other pages.
That said, because I asked you to give actual merit to your "abomination" claim does not mean I read the whole bill. I also was not accusing you, but asking you for evidence of your claim and this is what all people should do.
I have made no claims other than the conspiracy garbage and leaps of logic are wrong and easily disprovable.
-cont-
TheBigHo111 2 years ago 2
I will watch your video, and if I find something you said to be false, I will point it out.
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
to my knowledge, the bill hasn't even been written.
LouieArrighi 2 years ago
Hello LouieArrighi, check out OlGreyWolf58's vid which I have started to DEBUNK in the comments. Will return later tonight.
TheBigHo111 2 years ago
thanks BigHo, glad you addressed me. missed having you as a friend, and I will see if Old Grey Wolf sends you an official link. take care.
LouieArrighi 2 years ago
Has not been written? Just go back to sleep
OlGreyWolf58 2 years ago