Sacco and Vanzetti

[Fozzeh1015]

Whats the name of this song!?

[Luzitanpride]

LONG LIVE MARTYRS SACCO and VANZETTI !

[Bangormang]

There is no doubting Sacco and Vanzetti were violent men and they were definitely terrorists looking to undermine their newly adopted country, maybe if they didn’t like it here they could have moved back to Italy. Their innocence or guilt on this particular murder may be subject, but they were bad men. What is forgotten at this time was similar to 911. These people were part of a large number of socialists/anti capitalists, bombing and killing to bring down the government.

[TheFishKings1]

THANKS! HELPED ME LOADS ON MY HISTORY RESEARCH :D:D:D:D

[mjg032]

I wonder if all of you are happy with outcome of the Casey Anthony trial. Why not? Since circumstantial evidence means nothing to anyone here anyway!!!!!!!!

[anarksee]

More like the Defartments of InjuSStice,Kapital,and NativiSSm . . . .

[anarksee]

More like the Defartment of InjuSStice,Kapital,and NativiSSm . . . .

[jewelcat11]

It is incidents like this that makes me ashamed of this country!!!!

[blackmomba1422]

he as executed in a electric chair



[terrywoodinc]

Funny how in the film the prosecutor talks about america as a more civilized country compared to Italy. If an italian (colombo) hadn't discovered it, there wouldn't be any america! But I guess one would have to study (elementary) history to know that...

[mjg032]

@terrywoodinc Oh yeah and the exploitation of the Native Americans was really civilized. GET REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mjg032]

Though everyone knows if it were Pauly D and The Situation the majority of people would be like :lock em' up and throw away the key!". How the we look at Italian- Americans has changed in the last 80 years or so!

[Cskillet777]

I just love this song

[armeny925]

Well unfortunately there was no CSU and DNA. I just wonder if they weren't convicted would have the city of Boston been on panic mode considering that a serial killer was out there, despite the protest. It does seem there should have a retrial. Nevertheless evidence was there. and that's the part that's hard to ignore.

[GeorgiaKev]

@armeny925 Some people probably would have been upset, others probably would have celebrated. I'm certain that Sacco & Vanzetti would have left the U.S. and moved back to Italy had they been acquitted. In fact, I think Vanzetti wrote a letter (or a diary entry?) in prison saying he'd choose the electric chair over having to live any longer under American "justice."

[armeny925]

@GeorgiaKev It's seems to me that the both of them should have never been here in the first place. If they were so against American capitalism, why leave Italy? I understand that doesn't make them guilty, but it didn't make them look good either.

[GeorgiaKev]

@armeny925 I don't know anything about why they came to America. It's possible they didn't fully understand what life in America would be like (remember, communication wasn't so efficient back then), plus some of their anger towards capitalism may have been aggravated by the way they, and many of their immigrant friends were treated. In the 1920's, anti-immigrant fervor was rampant and it's safe to say that some (not all) of these anarchists were simply "pushing back."

[armeny925]

Besides, what is meant to be a "Italian Anarchist"? Does that mean they eat spaghetti with rye bread? Listen to Ricky Martin than Dean Martin? Make tiramisu with Gouda cheese rather than Mascarpone cheese? Really, what the heck does that mean?!

[talyesin3]

Note that in those times hundreds of thousands people in many countries could go to the streets to defend two people condemned as anarchists.

[tifranci]

These two commie jerks got justice, they killed two innocent men and the organization they were members of, advocated asassination, riots, violence, robbery of innocent people in the community. Their organization was responsible for bombings and mass poisoning. They were the Al Quieda of their day. They were guilty as charged because they claimed the car that was used in the crime and Sacco's gun was matched up twice by ballistics. Mourn for them if you want, do the same for Hitler.

[armeny925]

@tifranci You know the funny thing about it too is that as much as there is still criticism against the US Government's handling of the trial, not only here but around the world, is that if they opened their eyes they'd realize that the USA isn't this big bad monster that treats foreigners and criminals unjustly. It seems no one remembers Billy Hayes and his story of being in a Turkish prison and the fact that he was suppose to do a 30 to life prison sentence AND the torture he (cont.)

[armeny925]

@tifranci endured while being there simply because he tried to smuggle hashish out of the country. Fortunately he escaped and had gotten back to the USA, but it was far from a fair and just trial and proves once again that the rest of the world has no business criticizing us if they can't do it right in the first place. Yet Sacco and Vanzetti were accused of murder and did have a trial, had defense lawyers, and did have a jury like any other trial in the US does. How it wasn't fair (cont.)

[GeorgiaKev]

@armeny925 Because there was significant evidence which raised reasonable doubt that the judge refused to allow for use at the trial. Primarily, Sacco's alibi that he was at the Italian consulate at the time of the murders which was confirmed by more than one of the consulate's employees. The judge refused to allow these witnesses to testify at trial. He also trash-talked the two defendants to family and friends outside the courtroom during the trial. He was far from an "impartial" judge.

[armeny925]

@GeorgiaKev Oh come on now! Are you that naive?! So witnesses saw two men shoot a paymaker and a security guard at a shoe company, then fled the crime, then out of the blue decide it was Sacco and Vanzetti because they had nothing else better to do? Who knows if the witnesses even knew who Sacco and Vanzetti were? Boston's a big city. It wouldn't be that easy. Sorry friend but it seems you're overreaching on this one!

[GeorgiaKev]

@armeny925 Great, here we go with the name-calling. The witnesses saw the murder from a the window of a multi-story building, and before they even identified two other men as the killers before swearing that Sacco & Vanzetti were actually the men they saw. S&V may have been guilty, but the evidence against them , as not strong, and they certainly did not get a fair trial largely because they were foreigners who held unpopular political views.....There was NO reason for Judge Thayer...(CONT'D)

[GeorgiaKev]

@armeny925 He was at the consulate checking on his passport. Not hard to verify if they were there or not.

[armeny925]

@GeorgiaKev If that were the case then there should have been some documentation that he had been there whether a sign in sheet or something. Had there been it wouldn't of gone past the DA since there was an alibi. If it was just his word then that didn't qadd up to much. I'm not sure why anyone would have switched their story if they saw Sacco and Vanzetti. What are saying? That The witnesses were told to say they saw S&V?(cont.)

[GeorgiaKev]

@armeny925 There may not necessarily have been paperwork from his visit (assuming it happened) to the consulate, but then again I have no idea how the Italian consulate in Boston operated in 1920. The consulate employee who helped Sacco said he remembered him because he (Sacco) had tried to use a family group picture as a passport photo. Vanzetti also had an alibi--that he was selling fish in Plymouth, MA at the time of the murder. A merchant who had sold Vanzetti some cloth vouched for him.

[GeorgiaKev]

@armeny925 No, the witnesses were not "told" to say S&V were the two men they saw. But nearly all of the eyewitnesses who identified them as the killers could not say "with certainty" they were the two men (IOW, they met the basic description of the killers but weren't certain it was definitely them). One witness who saw Sacco & Vanzetti at the police station flatly said the two men were NOT the killers. They may have been guilty, but the case against them was not strong.

[armeny925]

@GeorgiaKev But again why was the focus on the two if they were miles away? Just seems strange that out of the blue that S&V were picked. Either the witnesses saw them or they didn't. Doesn't get more simpler than that, and of course people will say they had an alibi. Winesses claimed to see Richard Speck when the murders were being commited. Same with Byron De la Beckwith. If you know someone personally, do you want to admit they would commit a crime? Doesn't make them innocent though.

[GeorgiaKev]

@armeny925 It's been a long time since I studied the case (I actually did a report on it back in middle school). From what I recall, the murder occured on April 15, 1920 and S&V were arrested about a month later for an unrelated activity (probably for civil disobedience). At the time of their arrest, both men had pistols on them. Law enforcement believed that the gun Sacco had was the one that was used in the paymaster killing a month earlier. The witnesses were then called back.

[armeny925]

@GeorgiaKev All I know is that it seems weird that out of nowhere people claimed to witness S&V if people somehow didn't actually see them. But OK. It is what it is. But then what should have the Boston judicial system done? Just let them go? I agree the death penalty was too much, but then what should have done to make a satisfactory ending? That is what I want to address to the supporters. If it was wrong, then how could have it been made right?

[GeorgiaKev]

@armeny925 Well, based on our system of justice they should have been set free, preferrably by a jury acquittal upon reasonable doubt. Gov. Fuller should have ordered a retrial in the case in August 1927 but caved into political pressure.

Actually, Sacco & Vanzetti had their names officially cleared in 1977 by proclamation of then Mass. Gov. Mike Dukakis. Essentially, it was like the governor gave them an after-death pardon. How I wish that DNA technology had been around back then!

[armeny925]

@GeorgiaKev You said that you studied the case in school. Judging to what the jury had heard, is it realistic that they had no other choice but to convict them on the crime? What was the one factor that swayed their decision?

[GeorgiaKev]

@armeny925 Well, you have to consider that they NEVER heard about either man's alibi (because Judge Thayer refused to admit them as evidence). They heard testimony of the supposed eye-witnesses who "swore" that S&V were the killers (even though they had previously identified other men as the killers), plus the testimony about the ballistic tests on Sacco's gun (the one he was carrying at the time of his arrest), of course who knows how "accurate" such testing was back then... (CONT'D)

[GeorgiaKev]

@armeny925 (CONT'D)....The prosecution's three (3) main arguments were eyewitness accounts, ballistic tests, and "conscienceness of guilt" (meaning Sacco & Vanzetti had guilt written all over their faces!). How the latter was allowed as evidence is beyond me!

Also, you do have to consider that prejudice and resentment of S&V's ties to communism and anarchist groups very likely played a factor in the jury's decision (kind of the way southern juries often found black men guilty).

[sturatcliffe]

@GeorgiaKev  "Found" or find?

[armeny925]

@GeorgiaKev That seems more an idea for a Oliver Stone movie than something that deals in reality. In other words, that doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense!

[GeorgiaKev]

@GeorgiaKev (CONT'D)...to refuse to allow the testimony of the Italian Consulate employees who claimed that Sacco was at the consulate in Boston at the time of the murders. Gov. Alvin Fuller had the opportunity (and was expected) to order a new trial in Aug. 1927, but he cowed down because of political pressure (anti-immigrant fervor was at an all-time high), and the men were executed three weeks later. Too bad there's no DNA evidence to posthumously review! It would be interesting.

[GeorgiaKev]

@tifranci How do you explain Sacco's alibi that he was at the Italian Consulate in Boston straightening out an issue with his passport at the time of the murders which was confirmed by several employees of the consulate? Judge Thayer refused to allow these employees to testify as witnesses. Your opening comment of calling them "commie jerks" reflects the real reason they were not given a fair trial....they were despised because of their political views. Too bad there's leftover DNA evidence.

[MisterMarcoX]

And this are supposed to be men who bring democraty.

[Jupiterjazz100]

Pinches gringos

[armeny925]

Woke up this morning got yourself a gun...........

[Ramadl59]

The anglos did the same in New Orleans,arrested Italians and hung em,all innocent men. Watch movie,'Vendetta'

[njlacrosse9]

is that "V for Vendetta" or just "Vendetta"?

[Ramadl59]

Just "Vendetta",with Christopher.Walken,true story

[Ramenking1]

Red Scare! US Cititzens were afraid that communism would be spread to the US after the bolsheviks said they would spread communism. They suspected Sacco and Vanzetti as foreigners who were trying to...and that they were accused of killing 2 people at some shoe place.

[jevuliss]

when an italian was arrested, thousands of americans asked for justice. In italy, when an immigrate is arrested, thousands of italians say "kill him!".

/bow

- a different italian

[DontEatEggs666]

@jevuliss No, your wrong. At the time, everyone was predjudiced against them for being Italian, which was a huge reason for there execution. Also, predjudice against there political beliefs. So actually it's your American Citizens who are just as bloodthirsty murderers as in any country.

[DontEatEggs666]

@jevuliss Hell, most historians say there bad reputation in history should be wiped clean because the justice system failed because of predjudice.

[RamblinErikk]

Midnite and Sacco's on the settee

Hes watchin tv and hes gettin real sweaty

Nothin to do an nowhere to go

He cant have fun with Anarchy anymore

Vanzetti, Sacco, Vanzetti

Vanzetti took a little walk down the block

came back later with some Chinese Rock

Aint nothin left of Anarchy of yore

I'll never, ever see vanzetti anymore

[RamblinErikk]

1, 2, 3, 4

Sacco Oh Sacco Sacco Sacco

I dont wanna know your name

I dont care about your name

I dont even like your game

Sacco, Vanzetti

I think of you everytime I eat spaghetti

Sacco Oh Sacco...

[joewyuan333]

What is this song name? anyone know who is the artist, really need it, thx

[whizbang47]

That's the late, great  Woody Guthrie playin' and singin'

for you, 333.

[armeny925]

Waps should only sing opera, cook pasta, work as mechanics or be wiseguys. This only proves what will happen when they bite off more than they can chew. You know Tony Soprano woulda took care of these fools!!!!!!!!

[armeny925]

What else do people want?

[armeny925]

Waps should only sing opera, cook pasta, work as mechanics or be wiseguys. This only proves what will happen when they bite off more than they can chew. You know Tony Soprano wouldn't ever go for this!!!!!!!!

[whizbang47]

That's right. Tony Soprano would never go for this, after all he's as fake as fiction can be, he's as big a piece of shit as a gangster wannabe could be, and he's as outrageous a piece of WASP anti-Italian prejudice as bourgeois advertizing is willing to pay for. Opera singing, auto and aircraft mechanics,cooking and baking, those are jobs. He wouldn't know anything about one of those. Maybe you don't either.

[armeny925]

I dunno.  If ythey ain't swearing, eating spaghetti and listening to Frank Sinatra they ain't Italian. maybe I watch too gangster movies. Oh well!

[njlacrosse9]

its kind of hard to listen to Sinatra if he isn't around yet.

[armeny925]

Fine Rudy Vallee then. It's all wrong no matter how you look at it!

[rolpho]

troll

[britishoceanliners]

what

[armeny925]

I thought the Dutch were so liberal and loving. Oh yeah, that's only for their red light district and weed. I mean I did see the job you did on South Africa. Yep once again, America, the scapegoats!!!!!!!!!

[popol1975]

Great video.

Personnally I think that Sacco & Vanzetti died because America was intimatly too scared and too weak to accept people from "outside"

[liamshanley21]

I think a few anarchist ideas would be nice, not all, but, I really think us Americans were just too afraid of difference not to see that they were innocent.

[Solechnaya]

Were you raised with that mentality?

You don't have to answer if you don't want to.

[VALDIGNE]

still no justice for Sacco and Vanzetti

[06048651]

The moral of this story is we the people need to hold elected and career government officials accountable for their behavior both good and in this case very bad, horrific.

[rromano4444]

lol this really did help on with my ss report

[rromano4444]

almost a year ago, wow. I did ok

[HereComeTheJudge2]

Once again proving that Anglo-Americans are petty cowards who continue to suppress those of superior genetic stock and culture. The fear is that greater cultures do not assimilate into lesser ones.

[armeny925]

If they were anarchists and didn't like the way of life in the USA then why didn't they just go back to Italy? The only thing we did cowardly was letting the fools into the country in the first place!!!!!!

[SonicArchives]

you don't execute innocent people moron, if they wanted to deport them fine but to murder them come on.

[armeny925]

OK, fair enough deport them. But there is a place in the world for "eye for an eye"., and it's a important aspect to the world as well!!!!

[Ramadl59]

"eye for an eye" will make everybody blind. Racism and corruption in these times was why they were found guilty. Same thing happened in New Orleans. In US, Italians are 2nd most race to be lynched,after the Africans,many innocent.

[armeny925]

That's why theres something called the government to regulate who is punished and how. Racism is always the excuse. No one would say Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy are innocent cause they're white, but Wayne Williams is guilty because of of the racist and corrupt police of Atlanta, even though he knew a number of the victums. Yep that's PC, crybaby society of today. Everyone's looking for a handout, no matter what price our society will pay!

[SonicArchives]

Today the government is against the middle class more than any ethnic group; it serves the lobbyists not the citizens, which is why the middle class bailed out rich bankers and why all the jobs are out sourced.

[Ramadl59]

What are you on about? are you comparing 2 psychopathic serial killers with Sacco & Vanzetti?Yes racism was rife in US in those times,not that long ago black people couldn't sit next to a white on the same bus.

[armeny925]

You brought up racism Ramadl59. Race will be the alibi for criminal activities. The whole serial killer analogy is a prime example of it. Two white serial killers and no one says a word about it. Then the black one, who also happens to be a child murderer is guilty because it's the racist southern justice system. I'm not comparing what Sacco and Vanzetti did to what the serial killers did. I'm showing how racism will always be the excuse if someone is accused of a crime.

[Ramadl59]

I don't think so,fact of the matter is,these guys didn't get a fair trial and it seems they were guilty until proven innocent. I said the US was racist in these times.

[armeny925]

As I said before there have been guilty verdicts with less evidence than what happened here. Jews, Blacks and Hispanics have been far more persecuted than any Italian has ever in the history of the USA.

[Ramadl59]

You may be right?but it's a fact that Italians in US are the 2nd most to be lynched after Africans. You're wrong about the Jews though. During the late 1800's to early 1900's Italians were discriminated against in US and Aus.

[armeny925]

"You're wrong about the Jews though."

Are you kidding?! Jews were persecuted from day one. Ever since the early 1900s Jews were attacked regularly and their synagogues were vandalised. Watch the Jewish-Americans on PBS sometime. It will show how Jews have been brutalized since the firstr day they stepped on US soil.

[Ramadl59]

I didn't know that about the Jews in US,since so many are in high positions of power.

You're agreeing that racism was part of US decision making in those days,Jews included.I'm only stating facts.

[armeny925]

I never said there wasn't racism in the USA. There's been racism and prejudice atiitutudes since the first day humans walked the earth. I'm just saying it is too easy and convienant to say that what happened here was because of racism. There was evidence against them. They were't good guys which is why it's riduculous to make them into martyrs. They came to the USA with an agenda. Why won't people ever want to admit that?!

[TheXxxlenoxxx]

@armeny925 then you're justifying a political crime committed by your state? I think your excuse is worse than the accusation

[armeny925]

@TheXxxlenoxxx The polical crime was commited by the two goons. We responded by a trial and jury as if it were any other crime. Fair and square. What your problem could be, I have no idea!!!!

[armeny925]

It's easier to use racism as an alibi than to take responsibility for a crime!

[armeny925]

On the other hand they were convicted of the crime. So when you say "you don't execute innocent people", well they were found guilty. So how "innocent" could they really be?!

[SonicArchives]

they were guilty because they were poor and different not because they killed someone, if they were murders nobody would be writing songs about it

[armeny925]

"they were guilty because they were poor and different not because they killed someone"

Well if that's the case the whole west side of Chicago are innocent of any crimes.

"if they were murders nobody would be writing songs about it"

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. If that's the case I'll write a song about Charles Manson and he'll be exonerated of all crimes. Weird!

[SonicArchives]

Virtually no one but you thinks they were murders there have been several documentaries about them and a movie, nobody writing songs about Manson making him out to be a hero or making movies about him showing him to be innocent.

[armeny925]

But that doesn't change the fact that they were found guity whether documentaries and songs were made about them. Besides 12 people obvouisly did. There was evidence, they had guns on them, they were seen in the area of the murders questioned. You put two and two together, So OJ is innocent too I suppose(insert eyes roll icon here)!

[SonicArchives]

that is not evidence of anything

The fact that OJ got off is proof enough that our courts are still screwed up

[armeny925]

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence. Just ask any lawyer. There are some convictions that were made with less than what happened here.

[SonicArchives]

oj got off cause he had money

[SonicArchives]

Yeah and the 2 Americans journalist arrested in North Korea were spies

They should have got 12 of hard labor as the court ordered

Jesus was guilty too

The court said so

Courts never make mistakes esp in USA

[armeny925]

True, but that doesn't make sacco and vanzetti any less guilty. Nevertheless, it is surprising that the American public were so in defense of these two. Espacially because of what they represented. That part has always baffled me.

[jesselakerr]

were these guys innocent??

[BigNastyBastard602]

WHAT A CROCK, what about the letter Upton Sinclair (writer of "Boston") got from Sacco and Vanzetti lawyer that stated the men were not only guilty, but the lawyer gave him details how he set up alibis? what about TRUTH

[HereComeTheJudge2]

Where's your proof? Personally I wouldn't trust anyone named "Upton Sinclair". Hahaha.

[popol1975]

Great reply!

[Treyd103]

Vanzetti admitted to the crime on his death bed.

[superzonzo]

Do You mean he was executed in his bed?:D

[gioconesv]

read the history

[GlobalHuntMan]

Of what Fred Moore told him, Sinclair said, "I realized certain facts about Fred Moore. I had heard that he was using drugs. I knew that he had parted from the defense committee after the bitterest of quarrels. ...Moore admitted to me that the men themselves, had never admitted their guilt to him; and I began to wonder whether his present attitude and conclusions might not be the result of his brooding on his wrongs."

[SandraLuX]

Great video.

Who's the singer? Woody Guthrie?

[otoantid]

Long live their memories

[marfiuss]

yeah this dude has good videos !

salud from spain

[Blobulous]

Yeah that's the same voice from the spanish anarchists 1936 video. I would love to know where you get these clips.

[freddiesings]

did this come from a larger documentary?? what is it from?

[Namellak]

Important material on justice gone wrong. Thanks very much for posting OttOmOlOtOv!