Stuff Designers Say (When they don't have Copyright protections)

[356Master]

This is funny...

[gdevoid]

What are copyrighted are the instructions, the pictures, the illustrations, and any written material. Ideas cannot be copyrighted.

One thing is for sure, the reproduction of the magazine in your video breaks copyright law.

Who is stupid?

[HerHandsMyHands]

@gdevoid I am not sure that the use of the magazine is not covered by fair use--she's discussing the content for the purpose of educating her audience.

Mind you, I am not a lawyer nor do I play one online.

[gdevoid]

@HerHandsMyHands My definition of educating is much different from yours.

[HerHandsMyHands]

@gdevoid Yes, we must have very different definitions:

She's reading what the magazine claims and explaining, with actual verifiable facts, why those claims are fraudulent (from the Webster definition: designed to mislead or deceive).

How is that not educating?

[gdevoid]

@gdevoid Because what she is saying is not actual, verifiable facts. A designer's design is the designer's. That should be obvious. When a designer published instructions, pictures, illustrations, etc. that comes under copyright. Go ahead and make the item and sell it, but don't deny a publisher his/her copyright.

[HerHandsMyHands]

@gdevoid What is "obvious" to you is what people writing those extended pseudo-copyright provisions want you to see, but that is not what US copyright law says. Read some more, do some research. Go to Tabberone and read the actual court cases.

[gdevoid]

@HerHandsMyHands I not only have done research, but I have talked to a copyright lawyer. The two things that impressed me about Tabberone is "We are not lawyers" and the foul language used for ad hominem attacks. That doesn't carry much weight with me.

[HerHandsMyHands]

@gdevoid Did you read enough to find the link to attorney Paul C Rapp and read his articles on copyright myths? Perhaps those would interest you, as well as reading the actual court cases.

Oh and just for the record: Tabberone are not lawyers but have defended themselves successfully against lawyers, in court. Perhaps their grasp on the actual law is not as shaky as all that, wouldn't you think?

[gdevoid]

@HerHandsMyHands That's only addresses half of what I say. How do you defend the vile comments on that website and the ad hominem attacks? These only show low class and faulty thinking. And does the website lists the court cases they lost?

[HerHandsMyHands]

@gdevoid I am not defending Tabberone--I don't need to (and lawyers also lose court cases, should they list those for you too?)

I said, and say, that tsummerlee is correct when she says that anyone who makes something from a copyrighted pattern can sell that product.

[gdevoid]

@HerHandsMyHands Yes, anyone who makes something from a copyrighted pattern can sell that pattern, but that is not what Tabberone is saying. She is saying it is OK to take a copyrighted pattern (something you admit exists in reality), run copies off on a copier, take them to a group of beaders, and teach a class passing out those illegal copies as handouts.

[gdevoid]

@gdevoid The newly published magazine that offer one copyright-free pattern for beaders to do such a thing certainly DOES have the copyright to the other patterns in the magazine, and taking the same actions with those patterns DOES break copyright law.

Additionally, Tabberone saying designers think their "customers are stupid", "they don't get to keep what I sell them", and calling them "bitch" is not only wrong, but highly offensive to some very creative people.

[gdevoid]

@gdevoid She doesn't care who publishes the magazine? Well, A lot of us do. My customers get to keep my pattern when they buy it; I don't sell them the right to run off copies of it and hand them out in a class, stealing money from me who does have the right to do that. Do you really think you can teach a class without illegal copies of the copyrighted pattern? Listen to what Tabberone is saying. She is abusive, misinformed, and educating no one.

[HerHandsMyHands]

@gdevoid: third problem, per copyright law, once a customer buys the magazine, s/he can make, for sale, any item for which there is a pattern in that magazine--not only the one that the magazine deems 'copyright free'.

That is the entire point of this argument: copyright does not give the designer the right to tell the person buying the pattern that they cannot sell what they make out of that pattern.

[gdevoid]

@HerHandsMyHands Maybe someone needs a hearing aid. The videos clearly say that it is OK to make copies of copyrighted material. To say that the ENTIRE point of the arguments made in the video is that you can sell the pieces you make is incorrect.

I can tell you have never had your copyrighted material copied. You would have a whole different perspective on these videos if you had.

[HerHandsMyHands]

@gdevoid One of us needs remedial reading and hearing classes.

first problem: tsummerlee and Tabberone are not the same person or entitiy.

second problem: neither of them are saying what you think they are saying, anywhere.

[gdevoid]

@HerHandsMyHands I've looked at the court cases. Let's take Baker vs Selden , 101 US 99 (Supreme Court 1879), "no one would contend that the copyright of the treatise would give the exclusive right to the art or manufacture described therein".

I am not saying that anyone who buys my copyrighted, published pattern cannot sell what he or she makes following the directions. In other words, the piece put together by the beader is not copyrighted.

[gdevoid]

@gdevoid But what is copyrighted is my published pattern, with its copyrighted images, copyrighted illustration, and copyrighted text. And anyone who copies my patterns breaks the copyright.

[HerHandsMyHands]

@gdevoid: again, what tsummerlee said. So, what exactly are you disagreeing with? The use of the magazine--which she did not copy--to educate her viewers? If so, I stand by what I said before: fair use.

[HerHandsMyHands]

@gdevoid Okay, so far so good--that's what tsummerlee said in both videos.

[gdevoid]

@HerHandsMyHands Listen to the video again...that is NOT what she is saying. She clearly states that it is OK to make copies of any of the patterns in the magazine, and to teach classes with them.

[juanita1c]

I think you are total nutjob!

[fullhousewilson]

research Monsanto to see how ridiculous copyrights can be...

poor man's copyright (mailing your work to yourself) is not "officially" recognized, but as long as the package is NOT opened, you have valid proof of the date of your possession(keep notes about contents!) some even mail separate copies in case package is opened, there is still back-up w/orig. postmark)-good measure if law changes.. so many thoughts relating to these issues, but i'll leave at that for now.

[pepperwoman1963]

Love it!!!! Hugs... 

[SimpleCraft101]

I watched your videos despite not having an account. I'd just "bookmark" your channel or specific videos on my browser to reference at later times but this made me spend that extra 5 minutes to sign up...

Stop treating people so poorly!!! It's one thing to disagree but it's another to call them things like "Retard" or "Moron" or anything similar to that. Learn some human decency and treat others how you would like to be treated. Until that point in time, you've lost another fan.

[tsummerlee]

@SimpleCraft101 Even I get frustrated. I lost hard practiced patience over the lack of thoughtful consideration some bothered to employ before insulting me, especially when my only motivation, obviously, was to enlighten them to the possibilities darker souls hope to keep obscure and worse. Won't happen again, that's for sure. If I have to sit on my hands, I will. Perhaps, then, no one will lend defense to such errors.

[rebvan1]

@tsummerlee I know you are frustrated, but your SOUL is an artist. Artistry comes from your HANDS. I've seen most of your videos and your hands are never still. Never, ever, ever, relinquish your creativity, your passion, your soul and, yes, your silence. Get up off your hands and get those fingers moving again. It's already been a tough week at work and I'm relying on you to post another of your tutorials to inspire me.

[SimpleCraft101]

@tsummerlee It's true that some comments may be uncalled for but every single video on YouTube deals with those. It's part of being here.

It's understandable you would get frustrated but it is also understandable that someone learning could be frustrated as well.

Remember that it's very likely they are just venting because they are getting frustrated by trying yet not being able to do something- so don't follow up by asking if they are rlly jealous and then wahh at them for it. *_*

[TheMacomo]

Don't take this so seriously folks...if you follow this artist..you should realize this is all "tongue in cheek". Personally..I have learned a great deal from you and appreciate your candor.

[SimpleCraft101]

@TheMacomo Is her calling people retarded and lots of sarcastic other not-so-kind things also tongue in cheek? If so, that is the sort of humor I can't really appreciate.

[TheMacomo]

@SimpleCraft101 I don't disagree with you on that point. But I do not get on here to evaluate another persons morals or personality....do I think she is a little crazy...well YES, but I am on here to learn how to do things that will help me do what I want to do and she is a person who doesn't mind showing her mistakes as well as her accomplishments and I can appreciate that...and that tells me there is more to her than just the retoric. Check out my post on BeyondBracelets page if you wish.

[SimpleCraft101]

@TheMacomo I don't follow the BeyondBracelets channel because it's not my style of art so I don't know where to look for your post but it doesn't matter much to me what was said, I still hold my opinion that I can't learn from someone who treats people who are trying to learn so badly. Someone said they didn't understand and she says the work is beyond them and she won't bend over backwards to help them learn which, to me, implies she feels some people are too stupid to enjoy beading.

[TheMacomo]

@SimpleCraft101 I appreciate your comments. I am 69 years old and just started beading a couple of years ago. Learned enough on YouTube to get me started and still look on here to get ideas and knowledge that I need. There is no excuse for disrespecting another person of course but we all know that it happens all the time. I make original designs comprised of all the elements I have learned from other people so I would just say we need to RESPECT each other and agree we are not all the same.

[rebvan1]

@TheMacomo A little crazy? All artists are a little CRAZY! Some have even cut off body parts. I'm with you on learning from whereever I can. No jewelry design is original. Chainmaille for instance, weaves used today go all the way back to Egypt. Designs are composites of everything the artist has seen from other sources. These same artists aren't giving credit to others for that inspiration for whatever elements they incorporate. To protect a design, it's simple, REGISTER IT!

[rebvan1]

@SimpleCraft101 Millions of people world-wide spend big $ to see comedians whose schtick is insulting. Artists are sensitive and, as you can see from the many comments left over the past week, their self-perceived ownership of designs is a very touchy subject. TSummerlee may not have deal effectively with the ensuing fallout, but what she said about the original topic is correct. Even BeyondBracelets said her research indicated that designs had to be registered in order to protect it.

[tsummerlee]

@rebvan1 Grumble. I get called every name in the book, accused of theft and worse, here and privately, and I'm supposed to be above it?? As if. (Not you, rebvan, others.) You wouldn't BELIEVE the crap one tried drawing me into. A total smear champaign against a complete stranger to me. Some of the sickest, stupidest shit I've ever had the displeasure to encounter. Their motive was clear: They'd do that to me, too, if I didn't shut up. Worse than Toohey.

[tsummerlee]

@tsummerlee One dug up an old blog of mine, harvested some pain, then posted a link along with some threatening crap into it in a comment on one of Tushy's videos, then removed it, knowing I'd get the text in my mail box anyway. These are some seriously sick, evil people. I hope whatsername's proud. I'd delete any of my subscribers caught doing that to someone else. Also, I would appreciate it if you and others wouldn't spam her here. Thanks.

[rebvan1]

@tsummerlee I know. I've read their comments over the past week, as well as in many of your videos, You have a right to be angry and I didn't mean to appear judgemental in my commentary about your "Stuff Designers Say" video. I'm aware that you've been slammed this past week and I certainly didn't mean to add to that. I meant what I said about respecting your ability as an Artist. Your videos depict a creator that is sharing, honest and open.

[tsummerlee]

@rebvan1 People are so willing to "take" what's offered, but when I hope for something in return, like a little understanding, they turn into Democrats. Ugh! (lol)

[rebvan1]

@tsummerlee Unfortunately, it's all too easy to us to take posters for granted because we don't have any vested efforts in the videos. I think you have gotten "a little understanding" (ha! ha!); however, I don't know how a Democrat acts, so I can't respond to that comment.  You are definitely more perceptive than I to be able to determine a commenter's political affiliation by their comments alone.

[tsummerlee]

@rebvan1 Oh, is someone denying it? (lol) I could say years of practice...but it was just a joke. :c/ Seriously, though, you absolutely can tell a whole lot about people from their comments, how they talk about themselves, others, or what they value, don't value and why. Nihilists are the worst. I simply can't deal with them. At all. Principles matter to me. I wish they mattered more to everyone.

[rebvan1]

@tsummerlee Now, you've taught me a new word. I actually had to Google "nihilist".

[EmuCraftster]

@ZoeNZuni I agree. There would be no point otherwise.

[rebvan1]

TS - I've viewed your commentary video several times and, I mean this with a great deal of respect for your talent as an artist, but there's some serious behavior issues present. In my opinion, there's some difficulty dealing with differing opinions and what is perceived as criticism. Please know that I want to support you in your rights to voice your opinions, while respecting that others have the same rights. Love your work and hope to see more of your videos in the future.

[tsummerlee]

@rebvan1 I know.  And thanks. That's all.

[rebvan1]

@tsummerlee ts - just checking in to see how you are doing?

[tsummerlee]

@rebvan1 :) Wasn't expecting that. :) I'm at a loss to express how grateful I am by the thought extended in that very simple question.

[rebvan1]

@tsummerlee I am grateful for all that you've taught me; for sharing your successes, as well as your self-acknowledged goofs. Hope you get back into the game soon; when you feel like it, that is. Until we bead again - take care!

[tsummerlee]

@rebvan1 Are you kidding? I havn't been doing this for so long only to stop now! February might be light, though. Slammed at work again. Questions in the comments will go unanswered, unfortunately. I keep my promises, so those I don't know will be on their own. Consider these the last stand video comments from me. (blocking will resume when needed, acourse) For everyone else, I have things planned for raised embroidery, melting glass, and more.

[rebvan1]

@tsummerlee So glad to hear it. So when you are in noncom mode, we will know that, eventually, we will hear from you with another of your amazing tutorials. I'm looking forward to seeing what you will bring to us. My regards. Bead all you can bead!

[WalksForChange]

I've watched your videos before and thought you to be a charming woman... I am sorry to say that I regret feeling that after these past two uploads. I've no doubt you'll say something to demean me in some way or even possibly block me for letting you know my honest opinion but I'll risk it.

I feel you should present these things in a more adult manner. To me this came off as a five year old who is throwing a temper tantrum and while I understand it may be the point it did your case no justice.

[MissAppleNerd]

Ummm you are wrong and have been proven wrong by the government sorry to burst your bubble.. "baby"

[ZoeNZuni]

I never comment about the negative in order to not bring more attention to it , but....... arent youtube tutorials, dress patterns, dies, craft magazines etc. for you to be inspired and make whats being shown? Otherwise what would the point be? I am sorry people have such mean intentions and only take time to critisize and cause problems. I wish only the best to everyone especially those with the most negative thoughts for they are the ones that obviously need the most love.

[firemage1987]

You should always give credit back to the original designer, that is just common sense, whatever it's a free pattern or a payed one.

Claiming that you came up with it while some other artist worked hours on designing it is just wrong and is in normal common sense theft. I mean you don't go to a store and buy an iPhone or whatever and say that you came up with the function and the design of it. Same goes for artisan craft... Common sense and respect.

[rebvan1]

@firemage1987 This has little to do with respect or common sense. You Tube is a public forum. The topic was whether to give the designer credit for the design, but not the actual "creation" of the piece. The jeweler "creates" the piece from the design, regardless of where they obtained the design. Nowhere else in the free market is there an "expectation" that the creator has to give credit to the origin of the design If it's on You Tube, there can't be a reasonable expectation of ownership.

[tsummerlee]

@rebvan1 I was thinking about that today. Say I come up with a pattern and sell it to you. I'll even show you how the stitches are worked, but you still have to develop that skill all by yourself. Patterns don't give you skill. You still have to buy the beads, practice, fail, start again, fail again, and maybe work for weeks on that project. I won't for a minute claim I own a single thing you've created yourself with your own hands and brain. Its all yours, not mine.

[rebvan1]

@tsummerlee Well said.

[HerHandsMyHands]

@firemage1987 Pardon me, but I don't see where tsummerlee is claiming that she came up with the idea in that magazine. However, whomever did come up with the idea has not right to forbid anyone from selling a tangible item created using the idea.("common sense theft"? did someone take someone else's common sense?)

Designers and corporations want people to believe that it is theft, but their saying so does not make it so. Read on the topic, hen come back and argue the point.

[HerHandsMyHands]

@firemage1987 Oh and while I agree that giving credit is the nice, decent thing to do, that does not mean that anyone is legally required to do so.

[billiemonster14]

you shouldn't let youtube people and their comments get to you like this. i love your videos and hate to see you like this. :O(

[tsummerlee]

@billiemonster14 I think you're right. I think I blocked someone I didn't mean to by accident trying to keep up with the crazies. I'm wondering if I should just collect the comments with their author's name and just send them to YouTube's TOS people. I think I will. Some of them are disgustingly pornographic. Tell you what, though. You can always tell the quality of a channel by the quality of the subscribers. Like attracts like.

[u2aquazoo]

Folks get so spun up over everything these days. If you PAY for a pattern/class & LEARN how to make something, you have paid the teacher/creator ect for that knowledge. If you add it to your craft skills & someone wants to pay you to make one for them it's because they like it & are paying for YOUR SKILL/TIME to make the item. If asked how you learned & you claim it as your own & sell the original instructions to them, that's dishonest. But showing basics & your twist isn't wrong, it's sharing.

[ormslaw]

Beware of this video poster. She is clearly not an attorney and the legal advise she gives is 100% WRONG. She is basicallly a theif who posts this garbage to feel better about stealing from other people.

[tsummerlee]

@ormslaw I'm sorry that your religion has been challenged, but I'm not wrong.

[rebvan1]

@ormslaw I don't know where some posters get the impression that TSummerlee has stolen from anyone.  These jewelry design magazines charging a price for their issues, but most of them post those same designs free-of-charge on their websites. This puts those designs in the public domain. The magazine acknowledges the designers, but that doesn't include a legal or moral obligation for the beader to do the same. Designers need to register their designs with the appropriate Federal Agency.

[tsummerlee]

@LoveInADitch Awe, did I keep the poor widdle precious waiting?

[billiemonster14]

@tsummerlee you're letting yourself get caught up in all these comments when no matter what you say, you can't 'win' with these people. just ignore them!

[tsummerlee]

@billiemonster14 Grrrr. I'll try, but it seems wrong to do that!

[tsummerlee]

@Hodgepodge39 Stuff they'd really say: Can you do that again? We'll pay you for the trouble.

[tsummerlee]

@AmazingCrafts Why do you retards think I own a business? I don't. What an idiot. So glad I blocked these morons.

[tsummerlee]

@AmazingCrafts More stupid assumptions. I don't even own a company. I'm one of your lost potential customers.

[tsummerlee]

I don't own a company, genius. I'm one of your lost potential customers.

[tsummerlee]

@LoveInADitch Coke should be paying me for the advertising, and they know it. The glass is my property, which I paid for, with money I earned honesty, at a real job where I'm not compelled to lie to people because I'm afraid they'll be better at what I do than myself, or to dishonestly edge out any perceived competition. I never "stole" anything. If you're accusing me of theft, you better have proof, otherwise, I'll scream slander, and you'll look like an idiot. Ditch indeed.

[crzycardmakr]

LOL, :)

[texasblu1]

i never thought i would see such hatred on a craft site..how sad

crafts help me stay peaceful

i don't think it's right to claim someone else's ORIGINAL design, but, to copy something you see as beauty..how can that be wrong?

in one piece i might have ideas from 3 or 4 artist combined added to my own touch, and isn't imatation the hightest form of flattery?

and, i am OLD..lol..i can't remember half of what i do today

[angelsoulnme]

@texasblu1 Good POINT - If I were to claim a design was mine - when I didnt create the pattern - I dont agree with that.I know it takes me a long time to design some of my pieces and if someone were to just copy it and say they came up with it - that would bother me BUT if someone bought the pattern from me it wouldnt bother me if they sold it - I would be happy actually and I agree sometimes I see ONE little component of a large piece and I may work a whole new design around it

[AlecPerry]

@xxmouthrotxx hey shut the frack up

[EuStaciatheFierce]

This was extremely painful to watch, and I really think it summed up this problem. You are an artist, with a unique perspective and product to offer your community. It seems like even if you do have the brains to offer a valuable product to your peers, you have to have money to make money, i hope your problem gets solved and I enjoy all of your videos. best of luck!

[tsummerlee]

@EuStaciatheFierce Really, all you need is a good idea and a little skill, or the willingness to learn. Contrary to a strange assumption made by a few haters, I don't own a business. I'm a consumer and private citizen like everyone else.

[tsummerlee]

@VirtualVasectomy LOL!

[tsummerlee]

@AmazingCrafts I'm trying to figure out who I'm "harassing," but you Beyond minions don't seem to know. I should put in a disclaimer telling folks with low IQ's and thin skin that they might be offended.

[kissiebooashes]

You know you've hit the big time when your comments page is full of hate!

I got a kick out of it.

Thanks for posting!

[Eittap]

I get it and I think it's a great video. Love what you do and say. I have had just as much fun reading the comments as I have enjoyed all your videos.

[tsummerlee]

@Eittap :)

[tsummerlee]

@MissAppleNerd  Ya, poor baby.

[tsummerlee]

@LoveInADitch Who did I bash? Anyone in particular?

[tsummerlee]

@AmazingCrafts And you're just dumb. If you sell it, you don't own it any more.

[angelsoulnme]

@xxmouthrotxx Dont the designers who have their work published in beading magazines that millions of people buy get paid by said magazine? If a pattern is NOT copywritable then it's not copewritable ... I design all of my own work but I use the same stitches as everyone else does - If i am paid for a pattern by a magazine then of course others are going to replicate it - what is WRONG with someone selling a piece they purchased a pattern for?

[tsummerlee]

@angelsoulnme  This is "beyond" their comprehension.

[TheClarixxa]

are of the opinion that if a person is able to play something with their hands, the object in question is his property ... and if I copy the same object .. itself becomes the object of my property! We craft ... do not forget. Greetings and kisses from italy .. Rome! : o) p.s. Tsummerle ... six very nice and talented ... I admire you! Ciaoooooo

[tsummerlee]

@xxmouthrotxx  Mmmm, no. Bye!

[tsummerlee]

@Hodgepodge39 Damn, you're too ignorant to be here. Bye.

[Beautyforhire]

LOL show them who BOSS lol Copy this right BAWHHHHAAA BITCHES.......lol

[marlibpretty]

Good for you, good for you.............I just wish more people believed this! ...........Bitches! hahaha, can't stop laughing

[rosaaquino1]

this is great

[Pammellam]

... And I get to keep the money!

[Pammellam]

You have to put this to music.

Rap might be good.

[tsummerlee]

@Pammellam lol! That would be fun.

[ouir1abraham]

OMG I love you! Finally the truth!

[CricketsDaughter1]

This is just toooooooooooo funny......I can hear it now....."Well, who does SHE THINK SHE IS??/ SHE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING....blah, blah and blah..."...hahahah KEEP up the great work and THANKS for making us all laugh.

[tsummerlee]

@CricketsDaughter1 I could b a r e l y put this together I was laughing so hard. What a huge steaming pile of fun!