Shit sry I meant to post that on another vid and it's not letting me remove it whatever what I meant to say was that there is no reason to believe an arbitrary claim is true, they aren't for certain false but I can pretty comfortably say they probabally aren't real.
@kyekire Then we agree. All I was doing was pointing out the flaw in cropperb's argument saying that he knew the arbitrary claim was false, which he couldn't possibly know.
7. Already answered that it doesn't work that way. 8. Who cares its a law that isn't related to evolution. 9 Already answered that. 10. Because we started keeping track 2000 years ago and personally I don't want to say that it's the year 4.54 billion whatever thousand something hundred and something. 11. Already answered. 12 Yes. 13. Science changes because it tries to prove things based on evidence unlike your book of faith. 14. That's our argument.
@kyekire Right, but you can't know for a fact that those things aren't real either. Is there a reason to believe in them without evidence? No. I'm not sure what is hard about accepting that you can't KNOW for certain that arbitrary claims are false or true.
@skelepieow that's not how it works I'm afraid. For something to be true there MUST be evidence, thats just how it is, I can just say unicorns are real without evidence and have it be true.
@kyekire If you're saying that there must be evidence for something to be true, then I agree. If you're saying that we must possess the evidence for something to be true, then you are completely wrong. For instance, people used to believe that the world was flat and they did not possess the evidence to suggest that it was not. However, just because they did not possess the evidence did not mean that they were wrong in their belief that the world was flat.
@CALICOTV301 yeah I don't get why not believing somethIng without evidence exists is bad. Thinking that a magical god is real seems utterly crazy to me.
@kyekire Right! I mean, unbelievable! A mental disease? How is me opening my hand, with nothing in it, and you not believing because you clearly don't see it, a mental disease for you? SMH People are idiots! They are acting like Atheists don't believe after God came to our homes and ate dinner, and we are like "Whatever, God is not real!" SMH! Religion is a mental disease becuase they rely on it to live, when Atheists live the same EXACT way with the same lives. SMH
@kyekire None that should be taken seriously, no, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't know that an arbitrary claim is false or true. Once you have evidence to support either way, it is no longer an arbitrary claim.
@stallion4life sir, you're the one who needs to become educated... atheism IS
logic-based, i'm an atheist, my reasons for that are PURELY logical i.e. how can some "God" create the ENTIRE universe. everyone knows that the universe is big, but the true scale of everything is unfathomable. that's my first point.
@stallion4life My second point is that why would "God" create the entire universe, including millions of quadrillions of stars and trillions of planets, and put life on just 1 little rock orbiting a fairly small star? it just doesn't make sense, it goes against LOGIC.,hance making it ILLOGICAL.
My third point: If he made all these planets and only put life on 1, why can he still not be bothered to offer help to those who truly need it? the sick, the poor, the oppressed e.t.c
@elmotouchesme97 You don't understand what logic is. Logic is how we deductively arrive at conclusions that necessarily follow from our chosen premises.
Your points don't PROVE anything, ergo, they're not logic. It may not make sense to you that God made the entire universe just to put people on one planet, but that doesn't PROVE that He didn't. Would it be any more difficult for an all-powerful being to create a large Universe rather than a small Universe? Large and smell compared to *what*?
@stallion4life Can you prove to me that there is no purple pony in another solar system manipulating everyone's minds in secret? Like the gremlin in this vid, you cannot prove they do not exist, but yet they are both far more plausible than the god you believe in because they do not contradict any evidence we have found about the history of the earth.
@Nidair Even Augustine talked about not taking everything in Genesis literally. There are plenty of good reasons to think an all-powerful God exists, and was the first cause of the Universe.
@stallion4life Of course there are. But is it not important to know if your beliefs reflect the truth?
Every religion, whether it still exists or not, had 1 or more gods responsible for the creation of the universe. While none of them have been proven to be true, non have been proven wrong either. You, however, do not believe in the validity of any of those religions but still cling to one, which is just as absurd as all the others. Why?
An arbitrary claim isn't false because of a lack of evidence. An arbitrary claim is arbitrary because of a lack of evidence, which means it can't be considered false or true. To try and claim that you know that an arbitrary claim is false just because there is a lack of evidence (remember, a lack of evidence is not an absence of evidence) is utter bull shit. Just as much bull shit as the person who claims to know that the arbitrary claim is true. You can believe it's false, but you don't know.
@skelepieow Do you realize how much an open window you are leaving? Based on your logic, there could we could be living inside of an invisible vagina but because you don't know it doesn't mean it's NOT true. In that case, EVERYTHING can exist. In life, we accept things based on proof of them. You believe in snakes because you've seen it or a cogent depiction of one, and there's no dispute right? Aren't atheists living just as religious folks? Every heard of Radical Atheists? Hmmm.
@CALICOTV301 Regardless, an arbitrary claim can not be considered false nor true, because there is no evidence to show either way. However, I'm not saying that we should believe every arbitrary claim made. You should only believe in things if there is evidence for them, however, claiming to KNOW that an arbitrary claim is false is just as ridiculous as claiming to KNOW that an arbitrary claim is true. It goes against the very definition of an arbitrary claim.
@skelepieow In that case, again, that goes for anything. So, how do you know there isn't a planet in your ear? I mean, seriously. Science says that when you take a tylenol it will rid your headache, take a tylenol during a headache and see if it's proven. Science says if you take a certain amount of pressure to the head you will get knocked out. Is it true? Science vs Faith. You rely on doctors more than faith Im sure
@CALICOTV301 Of course I rely on doctors more than faith. I'm an atheist. Like I've said, regardless of how big of a window it leaves open, that is the definition of an arbitrary claim. You can't just get upset with it not being clear cut and "proven" false just because you can't find the evidence for it. That is changing the definition and it is intellectually dishonest to do so. However, a claim made without any evidence should never be taken seriously, but you can't know it is true or false.
@skelepieow ??? Im Atheist, so what's the debate? I don't get what you are getting at. We don't know what exists in this world technically. You don't know if you exist, or if you are in a dream. Yeah, WE MUST POSSESS THE EVIDENCE FOR SOMETHING TO BE TRUE TO US. He's correct. Otherwise, it's not true. Meaning, you don't know. Yes, there earth may be round, be not to you unless you possess the evidence that it is. Otherwise, you wouldn't know that it is, in your mind it's still flat.
@CALICOTV301 Well, I do know that I exist, just not necessarily in the form that I see in the mirror or with my eyes. We can talk about Renee Descartes and the "I think, therefor I am" bit, but that's really beyond the point. Regardless of if we possess the evidence to a truth or not, the truth is still a truth. We are just ignorant of the truth, which in all honesty is the way it should be. However, you can't just say that you KNOW for certain it is not true if there is no evidence.
@skelepieow Therefore it is not TRUE to you until you have evidence of it being true. If you are ignorant of it, how do you know it's true? If someone says "did the guy steal the ladies purse," althought it may be yes, it's unfair for you to say yes because you had no proof. You don't have to prove something FALSE if it hasn't been proven to exist. That's backwards. You need at least a starting point which is not in someone's mind. Until evidence is given it's in the mind.
@CALICOTV301 You're correct that it would be unfair for you to say yes when you have no proof, but it would be just as unfair to say no without any proof (not in a court of law mind you, because then you have to add in the "innocent until proven guilty" if you're in America, although some other countries go the "guilty until proven innocent" route). You would be left with one statement to make, which is "I don't know", because you do not know. What are we disagreeing on here?
@skelepieow Therefore to say that fire burns, you must show why you think it burns. I mean, if fire is just sitting in one spot, and nobody knowing that it bears heat, we could also say that it's freezing cold. No? Therefore, you need more of a conviction than me just having faith in it's heat. I could have faith in not dying of dehydration if I hadn't drank water in weeks, however, the laws of science will debunk that notion quickly
@CALICOTV301 There's a difference in these examples and the god claim. These examples are not arbitrary claims, there is evidence to support the first claim and evidence to prove the second claim false. There is neither one of these things with the god claim, which is the reason it is an arbitrary claim. With an arbitrary claim you can not say that you know it is false or that you know it is true, because there is no evidence (in other words, because it is arbitrary).
@skelepieow Again, there's is no evidence to support that fire breathing dragons are real, but there are none to prove they are false. There's nothing to say that there is an invisible clone of you standing beside you every day. However, you'd spend a lifetime trying to prove something false that you don't have evidence of it's existence. Wouldn't the burden be on the person who claimed it true, and why? I can't come to you and say, "I believe Mars is made of candy." You'd say why right?
@CALICOTV301 The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, yes, but that doesn't dispel anything that I've said. While the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, if they do not have proof you can not simply say that it is a false claim because they don't have the evidence. All that you can really say is that you have no reason to take their claim seriously until they have evidence. You can not say that their claim is false without evidence of your own.
@skelepieow But clearly, you are missing the gist. You CANNOT DISPROVE something that has not yet been proven. When you are trialed for murder, someone is trying to prove someone's innocence only been someone is trying to prove someone's guilt. But, I don't go to court saying, let's prove that this guy didn't murder someone, why? Because nobody said that he did. However, if someone say that he didn't, but said they only BELIEVED he did, then again, they still have no case.
@CALICOTV301 I'm pretty sure you just agreed with my original point, intentionally or not. If you "CANNOT DISPROVE something that has not yet been proven" how could you possibly claim to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that an arbitrary claim (a claim without any evidence, meaning that it has not yet been proven) is false? You can't, because as you just said, you can't disprove it. As I've said before, until someone provides evidence for an arbitrary claim you have no reason to take it seriously
@skelepieow At the end, we are on the same page, different lines perhaps. No postulate can be disproved when it lacks the evidence to prove it. So, yes, if you want to go with that one, then fair enough. But, that would kindle another argument which is how do we determine when something exists? When we know of it? I mean, realize that we don't know that it exists or that it may, until even when someone else tells us. Therefore, we were ignorant before we knew, so did it exist before we knew?
I belive in a goddess is name Hatsune Miku tough is a virtual idol meet all the req to be a goddess and we can see and hear her, so a new god in our times :D
1) Religion is an invention, God has nothing to do with it.
2) I HAVE found God. If you REALLY want to find him, you WILL. But you must seek him. Close your eyes and say, with your whole heart: "God, I'm nothing, and I know nothing. I need you. Please give me faith, and reveal yourself to me." Then, in the proper moment, you WILL find God, and live in great peace. Just try it. Somehing WILL happen.
atheism isnt logic in of itself, atheism is just not accepting the idea of god(s) to be true. How you arrive at that conclusion is irrelevant for what atheism is. Sure most atheists use logic to arrive at that conclusion, but atheism doesn't automatically mean the use of logic.
Atheism is a non-term. It is the norm, the control group so to speak. It is the belief in nothing but recognizes proven facts and an understanding that some facts are yet to be identified and proven. All religious folk do not recognize fact and truth but prefer to "believe" fantasies that are instilled in them by parents, teachers and peers. Religion provides a sense of belonging, understanding, control and exploitation.
Do u know Christians were called "Atheists" by the ancient Greeks? I agree w/ Sam Harris when he says that the word "Atheism" shouldnt exist. We dont have a word 4 ppl who don't believe in Santa Claus. We dont call them "a-Santa-Clauists". For me its about intellectual honesty. It's the result of applying rational skepticism 2 da claims of religions. I dont think it's a disease 2 B a Christian but I do think it's intellectual dishonesty & it could become pathological.
Being agnostic would be logical, as it is the default position. Consider, a mouse in a box. It has never seen outside the box. It could consider that there was a bigger world outside the box. It could say that it does not know. Or it could say that it is certain there is nothing outside the box, and the box came to exist all by itself. The latter would be the least logical option. In fact, to me it is the only option that has no logic. That is atheism.
@thecatman2000 Atheism isn't the claim that no gods exist. It is disbelief in theistic claims. Atheists don't claim to know. Anti-theists do, and they are a VERY small group. You, as well as the person who made the video, don't properly understand the terms. Agnosticism on its own means nothing. Gnosticism and agnosticism have to do with what you know. Atheism and theism are in regards to your beliefs. In response to your analogy, the mouse considering an outside world is like agnostic theism.
Well atheism can't explain the real hard questions of life, it never has, and it never will. And there's one simple logical answer to that. Matter can't produce thoughts and feelings. Until you don't answer these questions, atheism is just another believe system.
@cmpresents If believing that there isn't a god is a belief system itself then every religion you don't believe to be untrue is a also a belief system. And why do you think the job to answer question is of the atheists? Why do you not answer anything without an "I believe", or "it ought to be". People who claim extraordinary things need to prove them, not the other way around. If you believe in a flying person performing miracles in the sky YOU need to come up with the proof for it.
@cmpresents We don't use "atheism" to explain how the world works, we use science for that. Atheism is just the rejection of the notion of a creator. You don't need to explain or prove anything to reject a positive claim that is made entirely without evidence.
It is quite annoying that most atheists don't even know what an 'atheist' actually is and seem to be fundamentally confused over the difference between believing something and having proof for something.
Atheism is the belief that god does not exist.
It is not the belief that there is proof that god does not exist.
Similarly, someone who believes in god (and so contradicts the atheist) can also believe that there is no proof that god exists.
I wouldn't so much say it's logic, but the proper application of skepticism to the "theism" claim, to the same extent you would apply it to any other claim (IE the Nigerian prince who wants to give you money, a gremlin who lives on the moon, etc). It's the absence of compartmentalization of this one idea away from the natural skepticism you apply to everything else.
@Defhrone people turn to god when they're not strong enough to deal with shit on their own. so yes, that is usually the reason. people are scared. they want to know there's more to life.. but who is anyone to say?
@ihmawrtl You know what. I am in a predicament right now which I can't deal myself. But since I'm an Atheist I don't have a God to turn to. So your attempt to raise simpathy doesn't work on me. I am in such a situation... You know who I turn to? My friends. People who might actually be able to help me out and give me a real hope of getting out of this hole I fell down. God may give comfort. But he doens't solve anything. If he did he'd also be responcible. Take your own responcibility. Peace
Once again: I positively believe there's a computer in front of me. But it isn't necessarily true. So, while believing it to be the case, I also accept that it might not be. Just as I believe that my partner is not having an affair, but accept that it is logically possible that she might be.
Believing that god does not exist is, therefore, compatible with believing that it is possible he exists. However, one still believes he does not exist, and so one is just a plain atheist.
I positively believe there is a computer in front of me. The fact I acknowledge the possibility that there may not be (because I accept the possibility that I may be hallucinating) does NOT mean I'm agnostic about the computer. I positively believe it to be here.
SImilarly, if one believes that god does not exist, yet accepts the possibility that he may do, one is an ATHEIST. There's no agnosticism in that view at all. Not a shred.
I positively believe there is a computer in front of me. The fact I acknowledge the possibility that there may not be (because I accept the possibility that I may be hallucinating) does NOT mean I'm agnostic about the computer. I positively believe it to be here.
SImilarly, if one believes that god does not exist, yet accepts the possibility that he may do, one is an ATHEIST. There's no agnosticism in that view at all. Not a shred.
I'm a Agnotis Atheist. Of course theres a possibility! You can't be called a researcher/scientist without questioning yourself. Something as simply as " Is God real?" may pop up in your head. BUT bear in mind this. Chrisitianity is a whole other story. Your trying to influence other people to become what you believe, as the video says, what is a disease? Can you seriously prove that there is such a thing as god? No. (Don't give me that historical bull shit, you just interpret the bible as true)
Coming from a former Christian. It's not an egotistical choice for it. I think for a lot of Christians, my brothers and myself included it was more having God shoved down our throat and not giving the choice of Logic or God. I think if Americans as a society didn't shove God down our youths throats and let them decide logic or God in their teenage years when they can really understand the material there would be a lot more Atheists.
You don't KNOW there isn't a god because you don't know if there is a god. In other words, you can't call something not when you don't know if it is at all. End of the day. You DON'T know. Sure you can disagree with theism. but you can't realistically say that god doesn't exist because you haven't experienced god. You have nothing to base your assumptions on. You got nothing bro. Put all your cards on a paper tiger... Who'se crazy now??? You can't prove your point man. You have nothing.
I'm not entirely sure what atheism is, because I'm not entirely sure what counts as a god.
For instance, I believe that there is some kind of agency or agencies behind appearances. In other words, I believe that my stream of perceptions are (or are likely to be) being organised by an agency of some kind.
But I see no reason to think the agency is all powerful, omniscient, and perfectly good.
@TheHeraldic How could I fall into that category. I believe that there is an agent or agencies behind appearances. And given that appearances constitute the world, then I blieve in an agent behind the world.
My point is 'what counts as a god'. Does a god have to be all powerful and all knowing and perfectly good or is it enought that they created and are sustaining the universe. I mean take Zeus.
@Clear404 Within agnosticism there are agnostic atheists (who do not believe any deity exists, but do not deny it as a possibility). Maybe you're not entirely agnostic. The god of Plato is more like the Agent you think excists. He talks about a god but often he uses it as a synonym for rationallity/reason. Meaning, the forces that make things do what they do. So it's NOT the god Christian have in mind, although christianity is based upon plato and aristotle.. anyway, read about plato, Aquino and
@TheHeraldic Ah, I did not see this earlier reply - this now makes sense and I now see that you are not unhinged.
However, I think it is misleading in the extreme to start talking about agnostic atheists.
To believe something is not to believe that it is necessarily true.
I believe that there is a computer monitor in front of me. But it is not a necessary truth and thus I accept the possibility that I may be halucinating. Does that make me an 'agnostic' about the computer? No.
@TheHeraldic No, you're misusing words. An agnostic is someone who does not assent to either belief in god or disbelief in god. They suspend judgement. that's an agnostic.
An atheist is someone who believes god does not exist.
That is compatible with accepting that it is possible that god might exist.
why?
Becasue believing something doesn't mean believing it to be necessarily the case.
@TheHeraldic Well, because you said 'Augustinus' in response to my last post. I do not know what that means. I do not know how that could constitute an intelligible response to what I said. So I've concluded that you're unhinged.
Mr cropper has no real understanding of the long intellectual tradition of christianity especially with individuals like St Thomas Aquinas.And he like Ayn Rand have this misconception of the word faith due to inadequate understanding biblical literature.Faith is not properly defined as unfounded belief instead as a firm trust in God who one knows exist.So the question of God's existence is not a matter of faith.Faith is a corollary of accepting theism.So Faith is not cause but effect.
I trust/ have faith in my girlfriend that she wont cheat on me, this trust is based on previous actions of her not cheating, peer response, her devoting herself to me, etc etc
let's say you trust in god for the same reasons, based on previous experiences, "I can feel him" etc etc
What if i then told you i've never met or seen my girlfriend before... would you question she exists? would you maybe think my trust is a tad misguided? would you maybe think im a crazy nut job? lul
hey, youtubers, i have just proven god exists (at least somewhat). but please don't ask me how cause i haven't a clue, ask 'smp2qbl'. he/she is the one asserting it.
@smp2gbl "More often than not I'd find your life a nightmare."
lmao even more. because not one person who asserts their is a god/s has given me reason to believe, my life is "a nightmare"?
"..painful past..."
do you mean like those faith-heads out there saying "god saved me from the brink of despair, in jesus's name"? if you want to see pain, go and look in your place of worship and stop judging people you know sweet F A about.
@smp2gbl you say to seek god (not sure which one of the thousands you mean) and he/she/it will be known to us but what you fail to realise is the fact that many atheists turn away from faith/s only after believing and seeking to know your god/s better.
great point of view..... perfect...................... only a religious nut that hates atheists will respond with hate. a religious nut will come out and say let me help you find your savior.... and then give church more money
@smp2gbl No you just pointed out that it's possible to make yourself believe it which has no bearing on it's validity. Hindus believe in their religion, Muslims in theirs, Christians in theirs, "truth" has been given to all these people as they see it and their God given" truths" contradict and mutually exclude each other as well as changing over time. The fact that if you try hard enough you can believe it is meaningless.
Well ok, then just admitt that you cant prove that its true. Because all you have done is convinced yourself that you are right by faith, and faith IS stupid. I wouldnt believe something ON faith.
christianity would be a mental disease... unfortunately it's not called a disease if we all have it... and we all either have it or are very susceptible to it.
You CAN be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist contrary to what the person in the vid is saying. Agnosticism talks about knowledge, atheism/theism talks about belief. An agnostic atheist would say "I don't believe in God because we don't know if he/she/it/they exist or not". Most atheists are agnostics anyway.
Whenever somebody asks me why I'm an atheist I give a legitimate reason, when I ask why they are christian they respond because I am or because of the bible, then I respond that the bible was written when man couldn't explain almost anything and what makes it more realistic than fiction, their only response is "Because it's the bible." Honestly people need to face the truth and realize that what they have been arguing is false and makes them look like idiots.
actually, no, it is not logic and when you think about it, it dosn't make sence at all. I mean realy, what's easier to believe, that the univers happend by it self for no reason at all. or that someone who know what he was doing created it.
@MsWolverine98 Look into the answer that quantum physics, particularly loop theory, has to say about this question. Besides that, all I can say is that your idea of nothing is a human simplification. Nothing is an abstract concept. It doesn't exist independent of human thought. Show me, "nothing." Describe it. Define it. If you say it's "a lack of something," you're saying that nothing is actually something--a lack of another thing.Therefore "nothing" requires, "something" to exist.
@PostgodAfterbirth well I can describe nothing as in not anything as in not any as an the amount of evedance that you have that the big bang happend. and not any as an the opposite of the amount of evedance that God exists.
In a way, atheism IS a disease; or a weakness, anyway. Consider this: characteristics which make you stronger make it more likely you'll reproduce, meaning that evolution favors them. Belief makes you stronger. A lack of belief isn't necessarily BAD for you: it's just one less strength you have. Whether or not there's a god is immaterial: BELIEF in one is a strength.
@PluralOfEverything actually you can be an agnostic theist, or an agnostic atheist. how does not knowing=not believing, they're not synonymous. MANY people don't know if ghosts truly exist, but they still believe in them, so they are agnostic ghost believers. The theist people who DON'T knock on your door, go to church casually and don't interfere with your life are usually agnostic theist (my dad is one). On the other hand people who affirm they KNOW are Gnostic theist/atheist. Both are dumb.
@PluralOfEverything Well.......Agnostic/Gnosticism deals with the position of knowledge. Atheism/Theism deals with belief, I don't see why you don't understand this. You can disagree all you want, but agnosticism is NOT exclusive to atheism. If you Google "agnostic theist" you will get a better more in dept answer about this, should you still disagree with me. I'm too lazy to type more regarding this issue.
BTW i'm an Agnostic.....something..i swing between atheism and deism lol.
@ArmanCortez1 Belief follows knowledge. You can't just believe something simply because you decided it's true. You have to have been convinced of its veracity. Anyone who claims to believe in a god without knowing it exists is just fooling himself or herself.
@PluralOfEverything Hmm at the end you said "Anyone who claims to believe in a god without knowing it exists is just fooling himself or herself." So that means you DO understand. In case you haven't noticed, agnostic theists(really all theists) really are just fooling themselves and call it faith, but they are harmless(agnostic theists that is) so i see no reason to worry about them. Worry about Gnostic theists(fundies). They are the ones who impact our life, trying to make their religion law.
@ArmanCortez1 You have a point. Even if the people who pretend to believe did come around, it wouldn't change the fact that there are people who think that their desires have the power to cause something that makes no logical sense to be true. I would argue that a gnostic theist is someone who bases his or her beliefs on what he or she doesn't know, but it seems like there should be a different word for that, since gnostic deals with knowledge rather than ignorance.
@PluralOfEverything Yeah...that threw me off lol. I think i have beaten this dead horse of a subject long enough(for real this time). I would like to commend you for keeping this little debate civil. It's refreshing to see someone that disagree's with me comment back with no name calling or belittling. Sorry if i sounded antagonizing at any time. I hope one day, humanity will mature knowing that we all have different opinions and that it is wrong to enforce your way of living on others.
@IAmGeorgeSagan Yeah..but that's the thing. Gnostic Theists(and Gnostic atheists also are guilty of this) have DELUDED themselves to the point where without a shadow of a doubt think they are 100% right, hence the guy in the video saying that theists(Gnostic theists really) are the ones with the mental disease here. Agnostic theists are just silly, Gnostic theists(and atheists) are just plain deluded to the point where they are plain mental.
I wish everyone would come to reality that's just plain and simple... but why do people make a big deal over it... we have freedom of belief in america so it's really no one's business
Why can't people learn to accept that people will have their opinions, and we could all get along better if we didn't descriminate against each other? Sure, your beliefs are important, but you can't force them on people like that. Exactly why I hate religion...But at least I respect your beliefs, so respect mine. For all you guys out there of any belief, let me say this: Don't see people as "christians" or "atheists", but as "humans". I'm Atheist, let's see if you Christians will accept it.
@283kieran Yes, I understand your point. It's disrespectful. I have been around it all my life so far, and I hope to escape such scum. They act as if we're as bad as people who murder, when in fact there are some willing to murder us because they believe we don't have our rights. We point out their problems and they act like we're persecuting them when in fact we are the ones who have been wronged. Freedom of speech should be "Freedom of Belief".
Like i got bought up saying if someone murdered my family and i murdered them back for it i would be as bad as that person.
Like the reason i am not a religion mainly is because i am gay.
And i have a lot of Christian friends and some of them still do and others not at all now think it is wrong for me being like this but the ones who do a little do not say anything though i know there are some who would happily kill me.
@283kieran That's sad to hear. I definately couldn't care less of your sexuality, it's just not something to hate about. I can see why you'd be against it, since Christians in particular cannot respect personal sexuality. My best friend is a Christian, but at least she respects things such as sexuality and beliefs. It's ridiculous really-if Christianity is about repenting, then why are they using it to hurt others? To me, that would be a sin.
So does that mean (If there is a god) that god is wrong, they are following something that is wrong and then that makes us all right for not going for that!?
Also i would like to tell your friend thank you because people like her and them few of my friends are why i am partially OK with Christianity.
Religion is definitely a psychosis. However, so are (for example) PC leftism and deathism, so better take that plank out of your own eye before trying to remove the speck of dust from your neighbor's eye.
How rational is it to believe there is a giant invsible fairy story character who is interested in your sex life. The only people who can believe such codswallop are suffering from sexual repression and narcissistic personality disorder. Which relefcts the nature of their fairy story character.
Atheism is about people who do wish to play God with the world, who really want all that power to create worlds and rule over them, but if anyone else has been there and done that and so is God , already, then they do not wish to obey anything called God, unless that God is themselves. So it is quite clear Atheists are ready to believe in God the day they are elected God. But can they obey God ? No, that is their pathological depression, wish to be God, but not obey God. etc.
@Crosell Atheism is about people who wish themselves to play God, but cannot accept a moral authority reasoned by faith that is gathered collectively by people in society. You want a free hand to define marraige and clone human beings and determine when someone should be permitted to be born or die, at your hand by the Government ! George Bernard Shaw defied God and the Jews ended up in the concentration camps because of liberal progressive atheist propaganda. Atheists are mental.
atheism is an argument set up to let the beholders get what they want.and it must be just to aggrevate incite those opposed to it whether they be cristians muslim etc you name it.then we are getting into the true motive of all which must be criminality and opposition to authority this can be their only true self they are hiding deflecting their thoughts from ackknowledging it.and lack of prior decipline in their growing up . so it is a monetary venture. but thats just my opinion.
so you would think sexual promiscuity is something to be supported and to make jokes about it is stupid. Physical forever sound right then. Wish you you get spiitual forever and not mental forever.
I think its possible thet one guy created the universe in a way,he may have made a alot of suggestions thet others adopted as fact and somehow shaped the worlds perception of reality but other than that im not sure if there was a creator of our physical design.We only see and hear what they want us to see and hear.Sometimes there is something out of the ordinary but for the most part our view of the world was manipulated and istorted,this guy could be relying on what he has learned in school.
Shit sry I meant to post that on another vid and it's not letting me remove it whatever what I meant to say was that there is no reason to believe an arbitrary claim is true, they aren't for certain false but I can pretty comfortably say they probabally aren't real.
kyekire 1 month ago
@kyekire Then we agree. All I was doing was pointing out the flaw in cropperb's argument saying that he knew the arbitrary claim was false, which he couldn't possibly know.
skelepieow 1 month ago
7. Already answered that it doesn't work that way. 8. Who cares its a law that isn't related to evolution. 9 Already answered that. 10. Because we started keeping track 2000 years ago and personally I don't want to say that it's the year 4.54 billion whatever thousand something hundred and something. 11. Already answered. 12 Yes. 13. Science changes because it tries to prove things based on evidence unlike your book of faith. 14. That's our argument.
kyekire 1 month ago
I agree that is an arbitrary claim but so are fairies or unicorns, or flying monkeys.
kyekire 1 month ago
@kyekire Right, but you can't know for a fact that those things aren't real either. Is there a reason to believe in them without evidence? No. I'm not sure what is hard about accepting that you can't KNOW for certain that arbitrary claims are false or true.
skelepieow 1 month ago
@skelepieow that's not how it works I'm afraid. For something to be true there MUST be evidence, thats just how it is, I can just say unicorns are real without evidence and have it be true.
kyekire 1 month ago
@kyekire If you're saying that there must be evidence for something to be true, then I agree. If you're saying that we must possess the evidence for something to be true, then you are completely wrong. For instance, people used to believe that the world was flat and they did not possess the evidence to suggest that it was not. However, just because they did not possess the evidence did not mean that they were wrong in their belief that the world was flat.
skelepieow 1 month ago
@CALICOTV301 yeah I don't get why not believing somethIng without evidence exists is bad. Thinking that a magical god is real seems utterly crazy to me.
kyekire 1 month ago
Something without evidence is false until there is evidence.
kyekire 1 month ago
@kyekire Right! I mean, unbelievable! A mental disease? How is me opening my hand, with nothing in it, and you not believing because you clearly don't see it, a mental disease for you? SMH People are idiots! They are acting like Atheists don't believe after God came to our homes and ate dinner, and we are like "Whatever, God is not real!" SMH! Religion is a mental disease becuase they rely on it to live, when Atheists live the same EXACT way with the same lives. SMH
CALICOTV301 1 month ago
@kyekire Wrong. If something is true, then it is true even if you don't have the evidence.
skelepieow 1 month ago
@skelepieow However it means theories about god cannot be made if there is no evidence.
kyekire 1 month ago
@kyekire None that should be taken seriously, no, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't know that an arbitrary claim is false or true. Once you have evidence to support either way, it is no longer an arbitrary claim.
skelepieow 1 month ago
Religion is the mental disease psychological patterns show that within a few hundred years religion will be scarce if not completely gone.
kyekire 1 month ago
Also, your tie and shirt are horribly mismatched, and your opinions are horribly glib.
stallion4life 1 month ago
"Atheism is logic"!?! Please educate yourself on what logic is!
stallion4life 1 month ago
@stallion4life sir, you're the one who needs to become educated... atheism IS
logic-based, i'm an atheist, my reasons for that are PURELY logical i.e. how can some "God" create the ENTIRE universe. everyone knows that the universe is big, but the true scale of everything is unfathomable. that's my first point.
elmotouchesme97 1 month ago
@stallion4life My second point is that why would "God" create the entire universe, including millions of quadrillions of stars and trillions of planets, and put life on just 1 little rock orbiting a fairly small star? it just doesn't make sense, it goes against LOGIC.,hance making it ILLOGICAL.
My third point: If he made all these planets and only put life on 1, why can he still not be bothered to offer help to those who truly need it? the sick, the poor, the oppressed e.t.c
elmotouchesme97 1 month ago
@elmotouchesme97 You don't understand what logic is. Logic is how we deductively arrive at conclusions that necessarily follow from our chosen premises.
Your points don't PROVE anything, ergo, they're not logic. It may not make sense to you that God made the entire universe just to put people on one planet, but that doesn't PROVE that He didn't. Would it be any more difficult for an all-powerful being to create a large Universe rather than a small Universe? Large and smell compared to *what*?
stallion4life 1 month ago
@stallion4life Can you prove to me that there is no purple pony in another solar system manipulating everyone's minds in secret? Like the gremlin in this vid, you cannot prove they do not exist, but yet they are both far more plausible than the god you believe in because they do not contradict any evidence we have found about the history of the earth.
Nidair 1 month ago
@Nidair Even Augustine talked about not taking everything in Genesis literally. There are plenty of good reasons to think an all-powerful God exists, and was the first cause of the Universe.
stallion4life 1 month ago
@stallion4life Of course there are. But is it not important to know if your beliefs reflect the truth?
Every religion, whether it still exists or not, had 1 or more gods responsible for the creation of the universe. While none of them have been proven to be true, non have been proven wrong either. You, however, do not believe in the validity of any of those religions but still cling to one, which is just as absurd as all the others. Why?
Nidair 1 month ago
Everyone are born atheists. Some grow up to be forced to believe, some are not.
gurra1351 2 months ago
Jesus - Santa for adults
XplosivCookie 2 months ago
UR A MENTAL DESEASE! 'nuff said
xMBrosx 2 months ago
An arbitrary claim isn't false because of a lack of evidence. An arbitrary claim is arbitrary because of a lack of evidence, which means it can't be considered false or true. To try and claim that you know that an arbitrary claim is false just because there is a lack of evidence (remember, a lack of evidence is not an absence of evidence) is utter bull shit. Just as much bull shit as the person who claims to know that the arbitrary claim is true. You can believe it's false, but you don't know.
skelepieow 2 months ago
@skelepieow * "a lack of evidence is not the evidence of absence" is what I meant to say, but I guess they both mean the same thing.
skelepieow 2 months ago
@skelepieow Do you realize how much an open window you are leaving? Based on your logic, there could we could be living inside of an invisible vagina but because you don't know it doesn't mean it's NOT true. In that case, EVERYTHING can exist. In life, we accept things based on proof of them. You believe in snakes because you've seen it or a cogent depiction of one, and there's no dispute right? Aren't atheists living just as religious folks? Every heard of Radical Atheists? Hmmm.
CALICOTV301 1 month ago
@CALICOTV301 Regardless, an arbitrary claim can not be considered false nor true, because there is no evidence to show either way. However, I'm not saying that we should believe every arbitrary claim made. You should only believe in things if there is evidence for them, however, claiming to KNOW that an arbitrary claim is false is just as ridiculous as claiming to KNOW that an arbitrary claim is true. It goes against the very definition of an arbitrary claim.
skelepieow 1 month ago
@skelepieow In that case, again, that goes for anything. So, how do you know there isn't a planet in your ear? I mean, seriously. Science says that when you take a tylenol it will rid your headache, take a tylenol during a headache and see if it's proven. Science says if you take a certain amount of pressure to the head you will get knocked out. Is it true? Science vs Faith. You rely on doctors more than faith Im sure
CALICOTV301 1 month ago
@CALICOTV301 Of course I rely on doctors more than faith. I'm an atheist. Like I've said, regardless of how big of a window it leaves open, that is the definition of an arbitrary claim. You can't just get upset with it not being clear cut and "proven" false just because you can't find the evidence for it. That is changing the definition and it is intellectually dishonest to do so. However, a claim made without any evidence should never be taken seriously, but you can't know it is true or false.
skelepieow 1 month ago
@skelepieow ??? Im Atheist, so what's the debate? I don't get what you are getting at. We don't know what exists in this world technically. You don't know if you exist, or if you are in a dream. Yeah, WE MUST POSSESS THE EVIDENCE FOR SOMETHING TO BE TRUE TO US. He's correct. Otherwise, it's not true. Meaning, you don't know. Yes, there earth may be round, be not to you unless you possess the evidence that it is. Otherwise, you wouldn't know that it is, in your mind it's still flat.
CALICOTV301 1 month ago
@CALICOTV301 Well, I do know that I exist, just not necessarily in the form that I see in the mirror or with my eyes. We can talk about Renee Descartes and the "I think, therefor I am" bit, but that's really beyond the point. Regardless of if we possess the evidence to a truth or not, the truth is still a truth. We are just ignorant of the truth, which in all honesty is the way it should be. However, you can't just say that you KNOW for certain it is not true if there is no evidence.
skelepieow 1 month ago
@skelepieow Therefore it is not TRUE to you until you have evidence of it being true. If you are ignorant of it, how do you know it's true? If someone says "did the guy steal the ladies purse," althought it may be yes, it's unfair for you to say yes because you had no proof. You don't have to prove something FALSE if it hasn't been proven to exist. That's backwards. You need at least a starting point which is not in someone's mind. Until evidence is given it's in the mind.
CALICOTV301 1 month ago
@CALICOTV301 You're correct that it would be unfair for you to say yes when you have no proof, but it would be just as unfair to say no without any proof (not in a court of law mind you, because then you have to add in the "innocent until proven guilty" if you're in America, although some other countries go the "guilty until proven innocent" route). You would be left with one statement to make, which is "I don't know", because you do not know. What are we disagreeing on here?
skelepieow 1 month ago
@skelepieow Therefore to say that fire burns, you must show why you think it burns. I mean, if fire is just sitting in one spot, and nobody knowing that it bears heat, we could also say that it's freezing cold. No? Therefore, you need more of a conviction than me just having faith in it's heat. I could have faith in not dying of dehydration if I hadn't drank water in weeks, however, the laws of science will debunk that notion quickly
CALICOTV301 1 month ago
@CALICOTV301 There's a difference in these examples and the god claim. These examples are not arbitrary claims, there is evidence to support the first claim and evidence to prove the second claim false. There is neither one of these things with the god claim, which is the reason it is an arbitrary claim. With an arbitrary claim you can not say that you know it is false or that you know it is true, because there is no evidence (in other words, because it is arbitrary).
skelepieow 1 month ago
@skelepieow Again, there's is no evidence to support that fire breathing dragons are real, but there are none to prove they are false. There's nothing to say that there is an invisible clone of you standing beside you every day. However, you'd spend a lifetime trying to prove something false that you don't have evidence of it's existence. Wouldn't the burden be on the person who claimed it true, and why? I can't come to you and say, "I believe Mars is made of candy." You'd say why right?
CALICOTV301 1 month ago
@CALICOTV301 The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, yes, but that doesn't dispel anything that I've said. While the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, if they do not have proof you can not simply say that it is a false claim because they don't have the evidence. All that you can really say is that you have no reason to take their claim seriously until they have evidence. You can not say that their claim is false without evidence of your own.
skelepieow 1 month ago
@skelepieow But clearly, you are missing the gist. You CANNOT DISPROVE something that has not yet been proven. When you are trialed for murder, someone is trying to prove someone's innocence only been someone is trying to prove someone's guilt. But, I don't go to court saying, let's prove that this guy didn't murder someone, why? Because nobody said that he did. However, if someone say that he didn't, but said they only BELIEVED he did, then again, they still have no case.
CALICOTV301 1 month ago
@CALICOTV301 I'm pretty sure you just agreed with my original point, intentionally or not. If you "CANNOT DISPROVE something that has not yet been proven" how could you possibly claim to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that an arbitrary claim (a claim without any evidence, meaning that it has not yet been proven) is false? You can't, because as you just said, you can't disprove it. As I've said before, until someone provides evidence for an arbitrary claim you have no reason to take it seriously
skelepieow 1 month ago
@skelepieow At the end, we are on the same page, different lines perhaps. No postulate can be disproved when it lacks the evidence to prove it. So, yes, if you want to go with that one, then fair enough. But, that would kindle another argument which is how do we determine when something exists? When we know of it? I mean, realize that we don't know that it exists or that it may, until even when someone else tells us. Therefore, we were ignorant before we knew, so did it exist before we knew?
CALICOTV301 1 month ago
I will use an analogy that was used on a podcast i heard once:
"if a man was talking into his hairdryer he would be put in a mental asylum, take away the hairdryer and it is called praying"
NuclearMellon 2 months ago
Being open minded is a "mental disease" now?
Kavono1 2 months ago
@Kavono1 an atheist is not open-minded, but an agnostic is
yoanar2 2 months ago
I belive in a goddess is name Hatsune Miku tough is a virtual idol meet all the req to be a goddess and we can see and hear her, so a new god in our times :D
xen000 2 months ago
The thing is: you will NEVER find God by physical evidence.
The evidence is this:
There is a hole in our souls, we are incomplete without God. You are sure that God exists when he fills this hole.
juancpgo 2 months ago
1) Religion is an invention, God has nothing to do with it.
2) I HAVE found God. If you REALLY want to find him, you WILL. But you must seek him. Close your eyes and say, with your whole heart: "God, I'm nothing, and I know nothing. I need you. Please give me faith, and reveal yourself to me." Then, in the proper moment, you WILL find God, and live in great peace. Just try it. Somehing WILL happen.
juancpgo 2 months ago
@juancpgo Sounds like schizophrenia to me...You need to see a psychiatrist as soon as possible!
slim240293 2 months ago
You also use forms of straw man to make your argument look better. Congrats tricking people into your reasoning
tryan310 3 months ago
how is the bible not evidence?
tryan310 3 months ago
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SCIENCE FLIES YOU TO THE MOON. RELIGION FLIES YOU INTO BUILDINGS...
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IncomingMonkeyTurd 3 months ago
lol "athiesm a mental disease"
thats the same as saying "someone who thinks innocent till proven guilty has a mental disorder"
its actually the other way around its religious people that are mental, because they are willing to convict without evidence
gorlist187 3 months ago
Everything that exists was created by something.
God exists.
Therefore, God was created by something.
God was created by man.
mattdd05 3 months ago 9
@mattdd05 You hit the nail on the head. god was created by man.
Religion was created by some people as means to control many people.
tranquility4all 3 months ago
atheism isnt logic in of itself, atheism is just not accepting the idea of god(s) to be true. How you arrive at that conclusion is irrelevant for what atheism is. Sure most atheists use logic to arrive at that conclusion, but atheism doesn't automatically mean the use of logic.
Im an atheist btw
pf37rss 4 months ago
i liked this video as soon as he said atheism is logic
jordanartuso 4 months ago
Atheism is a non-term. It is the norm, the control group so to speak. It is the belief in nothing but recognizes proven facts and an understanding that some facts are yet to be identified and proven. All religious folk do not recognize fact and truth but prefer to "believe" fantasies that are instilled in them by parents, teachers and peers. Religion provides a sense of belonging, understanding, control and exploitation.
lizardgizard2002 4 months ago
i had to subsrcribe to intelligent rational thinker. if i could put two thumbs up .. u know.
kathy160 4 months ago
The comment of personal testimony is vey clever. I never thought of that.
You put everything so well. Well played.
tomwiddv2 4 months ago
In response to your parting quote, I prefer the term Mental Stability, other than that, good job. Have a Great Day.
JesusFknChrist666 4 months ago
Do u know Christians were called "Atheists" by the ancient Greeks? I agree w/ Sam Harris when he says that the word "Atheism" shouldnt exist. We dont have a word 4 ppl who don't believe in Santa Claus. We dont call them "a-Santa-Clauists". For me its about intellectual honesty. It's the result of applying rational skepticism 2 da claims of religions. I dont think it's a disease 2 B a Christian but I do think it's intellectual dishonesty & it could become pathological.
cre599 4 months ago
it's not a desease, it's the force to see thinks u don't see.
it's intellectual maturity.
DjOxymoron 4 months ago
1,000th thumbs up. You, my friend, are welcome.
rowenholmes 4 months ago
Being agnostic would be logical, as it is the default position. Consider, a mouse in a box. It has never seen outside the box. It could consider that there was a bigger world outside the box. It could say that it does not know. Or it could say that it is certain there is nothing outside the box, and the box came to exist all by itself. The latter would be the least logical option. In fact, to me it is the only option that has no logic. That is atheism.
thecatman2000 4 months ago
@thecatman2000 Atheism isn't the claim that no gods exist. It is disbelief in theistic claims. Atheists don't claim to know. Anti-theists do, and they are a VERY small group. You, as well as the person who made the video, don't properly understand the terms. Agnosticism on its own means nothing. Gnosticism and agnosticism have to do with what you know. Atheism and theism are in regards to your beliefs. In response to your analogy, the mouse considering an outside world is like agnostic theism.
123454321qcat 4 months ago
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What are your thoughts on:
DNA
Cloning
Dinosaur Fossils
Organ transplants
Medicine
Biogenetics
Biochemistry
guayacan07 4 months ago
Well atheism can't explain the real hard questions of life, it never has, and it never will. And there's one simple logical answer to that. Matter can't produce thoughts and feelings. Until you don't answer these questions, atheism is just another believe system.
cmpresents 4 months ago
@cmpresents If believing that there isn't a god is a belief system itself then every religion you don't believe to be untrue is a also a belief system. And why do you think the job to answer question is of the atheists? Why do you not answer anything without an "I believe", or "it ought to be". People who claim extraordinary things need to prove them, not the other way around. If you believe in a flying person performing miracles in the sky YOU need to come up with the proof for it.
bhriguaneja 4 months ago
@cmpresents You dont even know what atheism is! whyyyyy???
1GTX1 4 months ago
@cmpresents We don't use "atheism" to explain how the world works, we use science for that. Atheism is just the rejection of the notion of a creator. You don't need to explain or prove anything to reject a positive claim that is made entirely without evidence.
Axcalzia 4 months ago
atheism isn't a belief, it is the lack of belief.
atheism isn't a mental disease, it is the lack of mental disease.
Forcefield23 4 months ago 39
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bassbass99able 3 months ago
@Forcefield23 LOL!
GrimInstincts 1 month ago
If atheism is a mental disease, then Jim Jones was sane?
medicbr549 4 months ago
Atheism is Logic......str8 up!!!
LV07TSK 4 months ago
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It is quite annoying that most atheists don't even know what an 'atheist' actually is and seem to be fundamentally confused over the difference between believing something and having proof for something.
Atheism is the belief that god does not exist.
It is not the belief that there is proof that god does not exist.
Similarly, someone who believes in god (and so contradicts the atheist) can also believe that there is no proof that god exists.
Please stop being confused.
Clear404 4 months ago
I wouldn't so much say it's logic, but the proper application of skepticism to the "theism" claim, to the same extent you would apply it to any other claim (IE the Nigerian prince who wants to give you money, a gremlin who lives on the moon, etc). It's the absence of compartmentalization of this one idea away from the natural skepticism you apply to everything else.
Flyborg 4 months ago
well put sir !!!
peterwetton 4 months ago
I've believed in a God for maybe a year or 2. But that's just because I used to fear death and I needed an insurance policy for myself.
And I am damn sure atleast 50+% of people believe it for that reason.
Defhrone 4 months ago 21
@Defhrone people turn to god when they're not strong enough to deal with shit on their own. so yes, that is usually the reason. people are scared. they want to know there's more to life.. but who is anyone to say?
ihmawrtl 3 months ago
@ihmawrtl You know what. I am in a predicament right now which I can't deal myself. But since I'm an Atheist I don't have a God to turn to. So your attempt to raise simpathy doesn't work on me. I am in such a situation... You know who I turn to? My friends. People who might actually be able to help me out and give me a real hope of getting out of this hole I fell down. God may give comfort. But he doens't solve anything. If he did he'd also be responcible. Take your own responcibility. Peace
Defhrone 3 months ago
Once again: I positively believe there's a computer in front of me. But it isn't necessarily true. So, while believing it to be the case, I also accept that it might not be. Just as I believe that my partner is not having an affair, but accept that it is logically possible that she might be.
Believing that god does not exist is, therefore, compatible with believing that it is possible he exists. However, one still believes he does not exist, and so one is just a plain atheist.
Clear404 4 months ago
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I positively believe there is a computer in front of me. The fact I acknowledge the possibility that there may not be (because I accept the possibility that I may be hallucinating) does NOT mean I'm agnostic about the computer. I positively believe it to be here.
SImilarly, if one believes that god does not exist, yet accepts the possibility that he may do, one is an ATHEIST. There's no agnosticism in that view at all. Not a shred.
Clear404 4 months ago
I positively believe there is a computer in front of me. The fact I acknowledge the possibility that there may not be (because I accept the possibility that I may be hallucinating) does NOT mean I'm agnostic about the computer. I positively believe it to be here.
SImilarly, if one believes that god does not exist, yet accepts the possibility that he may do, one is an ATHEIST. There's no agnosticism in that view at all. Not a shred.
Clear404 4 months ago
an*
TheNarutoUzumakiXD 4 months ago
I'm a Agnotis Atheist. Of course theres a possibility! You can't be called a researcher/scientist without questioning yourself. Something as simply as " Is God real?" may pop up in your head. BUT bear in mind this. Chrisitianity is a whole other story. Your trying to influence other people to become what you believe, as the video says, what is a disease? Can you seriously prove that there is such a thing as god? No. (Don't give me that historical bull shit, you just interpret the bible as true)
TheNarutoUzumakiXD 4 months ago
Coming from a former Christian. It's not an egotistical choice for it. I think for a lot of Christians, my brothers and myself included it was more having God shoved down our throat and not giving the choice of Logic or God. I think if Americans as a society didn't shove God down our youths throats and let them decide logic or God in their teenage years when they can really understand the material there would be a lot more Atheists.
CaptainMorgan6777 4 months ago
You don't KNOW there isn't a god because you don't know if there is a god. In other words, you can't call something not when you don't know if it is at all. End of the day. You DON'T know. Sure you can disagree with theism. but you can't realistically say that god doesn't exist because you haven't experienced god. You have nothing to base your assumptions on. You got nothing bro. Put all your cards on a paper tiger... Who'se crazy now??? You can't prove your point man. You have nothing.
Landotter1 5 months ago
I'm not entirely sure what atheism is, because I'm not entirely sure what counts as a god.
For instance, I believe that there is some kind of agency or agencies behind appearances. In other words, I believe that my stream of perceptions are (or are likely to be) being organised by an agency of some kind.
But I see no reason to think the agency is all powerful, omniscient, and perfectly good.
Am I an atheist or not?
Clear404 5 months ago
@Clear404 agnosticism.
TheHeraldic 4 months ago
@TheHeraldic How could I fall into that category. I believe that there is an agent or agencies behind appearances. And given that appearances constitute the world, then I blieve in an agent behind the world.
My point is 'what counts as a god'. Does a god have to be all powerful and all knowing and perfectly good or is it enought that they created and are sustaining the universe. I mean take Zeus.
Clear404 4 months ago
@Clear404 Within agnosticism there are agnostic atheists (who do not believe any deity exists, but do not deny it as a possibility). Maybe you're not entirely agnostic. The god of Plato is more like the Agent you think excists. He talks about a god but often he uses it as a synonym for rationallity/reason. Meaning, the forces that make things do what they do. So it's NOT the god Christian have in mind, although christianity is based upon plato and aristotle.. anyway, read about plato, Aquino and
TheHeraldic 4 months ago
@TheHeraldic Ah, I did not see this earlier reply - this now makes sense and I now see that you are not unhinged.
However, I think it is misleading in the extreme to start talking about agnostic atheists.
To believe something is not to believe that it is necessarily true.
I believe that there is a computer monitor in front of me. But it is not a necessary truth and thus I accept the possibility that I may be halucinating. Does that make me an 'agnostic' about the computer? No.
Clear404 4 months ago
@Clear404 But you are an agnostic atheist because you don't deny there could really be a computer
TheHeraldic 4 months ago
@TheHeraldic No, you're misusing words. An agnostic is someone who does not assent to either belief in god or disbelief in god. They suspend judgement. that's an agnostic.
An atheist is someone who believes god does not exist.
That is compatible with accepting that it is possible that god might exist.
why?
Becasue believing something doesn't mean believing it to be necessarily the case.
Clear404 4 months ago
@Clear404 Augustinus ;)
TheHeraldic 4 months ago
@TheHeraldic ? Are you unhinged?
Clear404 4 months ago
@Clear404 No, why?
TheHeraldic 4 months ago
@TheHeraldic Well, because you said 'Augustinus' in response to my last post. I do not know what that means. I do not know how that could constitute an intelligible response to what I said. So I've concluded that you're unhinged.
Clear404 4 months ago
@Clear404 No, It was the last word of my comment, but I was out of characters. So I finished my sentence with a new comment...
TheHeraldic 4 months ago
Nope agnosticism is not in the middle, because knowing and believing are two very different things.
YAMAHADIVERSION33 5 months ago
@YAMAHADIVERSION33 what is the Middle then, sir? Agnosticism is about as Neutral as it gets. Pure Skepticism becomes Unrealistic.
UnexpectedWonder 4 months ago
"Personal testimony doesn't qualify." That is f'n brilliant!! If only everyone on Fox News realized this!!!!
becker286 5 months ago
Mhmmm.... a mental disease? Religion!
goodriddance86 5 months ago
Mr cropper has no real understanding of the long intellectual tradition of christianity especially with individuals like St Thomas Aquinas.And he like Ayn Rand have this misconception of the word faith due to inadequate understanding biblical literature.Faith is not properly defined as unfounded belief instead as a firm trust in God who one knows exist.So the question of God's existence is not a matter of faith.Faith is a corollary of accepting theism.So Faith is not cause but effect.
TheTruthgeneral 5 months ago
@TheTruthgeneral
I trust/ have faith in my girlfriend that she wont cheat on me, this trust is based on previous actions of her not cheating, peer response, her devoting herself to me, etc etc
let's say you trust in god for the same reasons, based on previous experiences, "I can feel him" etc etc
What if i then told you i've never met or seen my girlfriend before... would you question she exists? would you maybe think my trust is a tad misguided? would you maybe think im a crazy nut job? lul
DataSe7en 5 months ago
hey, youtubers, i have just proven god exists (at least somewhat). but please don't ask me how cause i haven't a clue, ask 'smp2qbl'. he/she is the one asserting it.
fourbabies1 5 months ago
@smp2gbl i've changed my mind, don't point out your so called victories. one so deep in sky-daddy delusion will never see sense.
fourbabies1 5 months ago
@smp2gbl didn't realise you were arguing. excuse my ignorance but could you point out your victories in your "arguments" with me.
fourbabies1 5 months ago
@smp2gbl "More often than not I'd find your life a nightmare."
lmao even more. because not one person who asserts their is a god/s has given me reason to believe, my life is "a nightmare"?
"..painful past..."
do you mean like those faith-heads out there saying "god saved me from the brink of despair, in jesus's name"? if you want to see pain, go and look in your place of worship and stop judging people you know sweet F A about.
fourbabies1 5 months ago
@smp2gbl "..atheism.......is based on irrational emotion based logic."
lmao. how can logic be irrational emotion based? no, don't answer that. have fun with your god/s.
fourbabies1 5 months ago
@smp2gbl you say to seek god (not sure which one of the thousands you mean) and he/she/it will be known to us but what you fail to realise is the fact that many atheists turn away from faith/s only after believing and seeking to know your god/s better.
fourbabies1 5 months ago
Anyone who thinks atheism is a mental disease is projecting.
Snipe4261 5 months ago
Id say that we are most likely all agnostic, even theists.
The pope cant REALLY know that there is a god.
He cant even really believe it, if hes looked into the possibility of there not being one.
But he CAN have faith in a god... Which is stupid but faith means you dont know but you just neeeeeed to believe that you know.
Yahweigh 5 months ago
if you think about it, energy can never disappear nor be created.. so you always where, still is and always will be.. you just change forms!
maxman2324 5 months ago
@smp2gbl Once you believe something of course it makes sense.
Leftunloved 5 months ago
great point of view..... perfect...................... only a religious nut that hates atheists will respond with hate. a religious nut will come out and say let me help you find your savior.... and then give church more money
kathy160 5 months ago
@smp2gbl No you just pointed out that it's possible to make yourself believe it which has no bearing on it's validity. Hindus believe in their religion, Muslims in theirs, Christians in theirs, "truth" has been given to all these people as they see it and their God given" truths" contradict and mutually exclude each other as well as changing over time. The fact that if you try hard enough you can believe it is meaningless.
ketsan 5 months ago
@smp2gbl So you have no proof then?
Well ok, then just admitt that you cant prove that its true. Because all you have done is convinced yourself that you are right by faith, and faith IS stupid. I wouldnt believe something ON faith.
gulbirk 5 months ago
@smp2gbl So how did he actually prove himselfe?
gulbirk 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
actually... since there can be agnostic theists AND atheists
and there can be gnostic theists AND atheists
agnosticism is NOT "somewhere in the middle", agnosticism is something else.
but whatever, i'm not here to teach you stuff, i'm here to be entertained. so i'm switching channel, cuz you're not very interesting.
De4sher 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
christianity would be a mental disease... unfortunately it's not called a disease if we all have it... and we all either have it or are very susceptible to it.
De4sher 6 months ago
You CAN be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist contrary to what the person in the vid is saying. Agnosticism talks about knowledge, atheism/theism talks about belief. An agnostic atheist would say "I don't believe in God because we don't know if he/she/it/they exist or not". Most atheists are agnostics anyway.
TheYipedo 6 months ago
Whenever somebody asks me why I'm an atheist I give a legitimate reason, when I ask why they are christian they respond because I am or because of the bible, then I respond that the bible was written when man couldn't explain almost anything and what makes it more realistic than fiction, their only response is "Because it's the bible." Honestly people need to face the truth and realize that what they have been arguing is false and makes them look like idiots.
TheGilden00 6 months ago
actually, no, it is not logic and when you think about it, it dosn't make sence at all. I mean realy, what's easier to believe, that the univers happend by it self for no reason at all. or that someone who know what he was doing created it.
MsWolverine98 6 months ago
@MsWolverine98 Look into the answer that quantum physics, particularly loop theory, has to say about this question. Besides that, all I can say is that your idea of nothing is a human simplification. Nothing is an abstract concept. It doesn't exist independent of human thought. Show me, "nothing." Describe it. Define it. If you say it's "a lack of something," you're saying that nothing is actually something--a lack of another thing.Therefore "nothing" requires, "something" to exist.
PostgodAfterbirth 6 months ago
@PostgodAfterbirth well I can describe nothing as in not anything as in not any as an the amount of evedance that you have that the big bang happend. and not any as an the opposite of the amount of evedance that God exists.
MsWolverine98 6 months ago
In a way, atheism IS a disease; or a weakness, anyway. Consider this: characteristics which make you stronger make it more likely you'll reproduce, meaning that evolution favors them. Belief makes you stronger. A lack of belief isn't necessarily BAD for you: it's just one less strength you have. Whether or not there's a god is immaterial: BELIEF in one is a strength.
chackers 6 months ago
I'm going to get a tattoo of a green gremlin with chain mail socks on the dark side of the moon. It's going to be awesome.
pentatonic184 6 months ago
Not knowing = not believing.
Agnostics are atheists.
PluralOfEverything 6 months ago
@PluralOfEverything actually you can be an agnostic theist, or an agnostic atheist. how does not knowing=not believing, they're not synonymous. MANY people don't know if ghosts truly exist, but they still believe in them, so they are agnostic ghost believers. The theist people who DON'T knock on your door, go to church casually and don't interfere with your life are usually agnostic theist (my dad is one). On the other hand people who affirm they KNOW are Gnostic theist/atheist. Both are dumb.
ArmanCortez1 6 months ago
@ArmanCortez1 I disagree. You can't believe something you don't claim to know is true.
PluralOfEverything 6 months ago
@PluralOfEverything Well.......Agnostic/Gnosticism deals with the position of knowledge. Atheism/Theism deals with belief, I don't see why you don't understand this. You can disagree all you want, but agnosticism is NOT exclusive to atheism. If you Google "agnostic theist" you will get a better more in dept answer about this, should you still disagree with me. I'm too lazy to type more regarding this issue.
BTW i'm an Agnostic.....something..i swing between atheism and deism lol.
ArmanCortez1 6 months ago
@ArmanCortez1 Belief follows knowledge. You can't just believe something simply because you decided it's true. You have to have been convinced of its veracity. Anyone who claims to believe in a god without knowing it exists is just fooling himself or herself.
PluralOfEverything 6 months ago
@PluralOfEverything Hmm at the end you said "Anyone who claims to believe in a god without knowing it exists is just fooling himself or herself." So that means you DO understand. In case you haven't noticed, agnostic theists(really all theists) really are just fooling themselves and call it faith, but they are harmless(agnostic theists that is) so i see no reason to worry about them. Worry about Gnostic theists(fundies). They are the ones who impact our life, trying to make their religion law.
ArmanCortez1 6 months ago
@ArmanCortez1 You have a point. Even if the people who pretend to believe did come around, it wouldn't change the fact that there are people who think that their desires have the power to cause something that makes no logical sense to be true. I would argue that a gnostic theist is someone who bases his or her beliefs on what he or she doesn't know, but it seems like there should be a different word for that, since gnostic deals with knowledge rather than ignorance.
IAmGeorgeSagan 6 months ago
@IAmGeorgeSagan Whoops, I forgot to switch accounts. IAmGeorgeSagan is me.
PluralOfEverything 6 months ago
@PluralOfEverything Yeah...that threw me off lol. I think i have beaten this dead horse of a subject long enough(for real this time). I would like to commend you for keeping this little debate civil. It's refreshing to see someone that disagree's with me comment back with no name calling or belittling. Sorry if i sounded antagonizing at any time. I hope one day, humanity will mature knowing that we all have different opinions and that it is wrong to enforce your way of living on others.
Peace...
ArmanCortez1 6 months ago
@IAmGeorgeSagan Yeah..but that's the thing. Gnostic Theists(and Gnostic atheists also are guilty of this) have DELUDED themselves to the point where without a shadow of a doubt think they are 100% right, hence the guy in the video saying that theists(Gnostic theists really) are the ones with the mental disease here. Agnostic theists are just silly, Gnostic theists(and atheists) are just plain deluded to the point where they are plain mental.
With our current knowledge, god is unknown.
ArmanCortez1 6 months ago
The Atheist Delusion
13SuperKings 6 months ago
But i thought everyone knew there was a green goblin on the far side of the moon.
1zacster 6 months ago
You are my new favourite person
Muzz606 6 months ago 12
"Atheism is logic."
I've never heard it so eloquently put.
cdmillig 6 months ago 28
@cdmillig prove how it is Logical?
UnexpectedWonder 4 months ago
I wish everyone would come to reality that's just plain and simple... but why do people make a big deal over it... we have freedom of belief in america so it's really no one's business
quickninja21 7 months ago
Why can't people learn to accept that people will have their opinions, and we could all get along better if we didn't descriminate against each other? Sure, your beliefs are important, but you can't force them on people like that. Exactly why I hate religion...But at least I respect your beliefs, so respect mine. For all you guys out there of any belief, let me say this: Don't see people as "christians" or "atheists", but as "humans". I'm Atheist, let's see if you Christians will accept it.
TheSurfaceofTheMoon 7 months ago
@TheSurfaceofTheMoon The thing is i don't go on about it and i wish like you i hope we have our own opinion and that is it!
But it does annoy me when they say they want right when they hate and argue more so what they go against they hate.
But for me it is like i don't believe you do but who cares we do what we want and that is it.
I wish there was more like me and you.
We think something then not go on though i do think religion is the worse for that.
283kieran 7 months ago
@283kieran Yes, I understand your point. It's disrespectful. I have been around it all my life so far, and I hope to escape such scum. They act as if we're as bad as people who murder, when in fact there are some willing to murder us because they believe we don't have our rights. We point out their problems and they act like we're persecuting them when in fact we are the ones who have been wronged. Freedom of speech should be "Freedom of Belief".
TheSurfaceofTheMoon 7 months ago
@TheSurfaceofTheMoon Yeah i agree with you fully.
Like i got bought up saying if someone murdered my family and i murdered them back for it i would be as bad as that person.
Like the reason i am not a religion mainly is because i am gay.
And i have a lot of Christian friends and some of them still do and others not at all now think it is wrong for me being like this but the ones who do a little do not say anything though i know there are some who would happily kill me.
283kieran 7 months ago
@283kieran That's sad to hear. I definately couldn't care less of your sexuality, it's just not something to hate about. I can see why you'd be against it, since Christians in particular cannot respect personal sexuality. My best friend is a Christian, but at least she respects things such as sexuality and beliefs. It's ridiculous really-if Christianity is about repenting, then why are they using it to hurt others? To me, that would be a sin.
TheSurfaceofTheMoon 7 months ago
@TheSurfaceofTheMoon That is what i say but yet they always say.
"BUT GOD SAY'S IT IS WRONG!"
So does that mean (If there is a god) that god is wrong, they are following something that is wrong and then that makes us all right for not going for that!?
Also i would like to tell your friend thank you because people like her and them few of my friends are why i am partially OK with Christianity.
I wish everyone of them were like her!
283kieran 7 months ago
Lol, my are all born atheists. What a retard!
LeeMcLoughlin1975 7 months ago
Religion is definitely a psychosis. However, so are (for example) PC leftism and deathism, so better take that plank out of your own eye before trying to remove the speck of dust from your neighbor's eye.
Parapon3ra 7 months ago
Comment removed
MrPennysPop 7 months ago
Fantastic video and very funny too. I favorited.
MrPennysPop 8 months ago
How rational is it to believe there is a giant invsible fairy story character who is interested in your sex life. The only people who can believe such codswallop are suffering from sexual repression and narcissistic personality disorder. Which relefcts the nature of their fairy story character.
Valthepixie 8 months ago
Atheism is about people who do wish to play God with the world, who really want all that power to create worlds and rule over them, but if anyone else has been there and done that and so is God , already, then they do not wish to obey anything called God, unless that God is themselves. So it is quite clear Atheists are ready to believe in God the day they are elected God. But can they obey God ? No, that is their pathological depression, wish to be God, but not obey God. etc.
CarmineFragione 8 months ago
@CarmineFragione lol, go on with your bullshit, this is funny to read
Crosell 8 months ago
@Crosell Atheism is about people who wish themselves to play God, but cannot accept a moral authority reasoned by faith that is gathered collectively by people in society. You want a free hand to define marraige and clone human beings and determine when someone should be permitted to be born or die, at your hand by the Government ! George Bernard Shaw defied God and the Jews ended up in the concentration camps because of liberal progressive atheist propaganda. Atheists are mental.
CarmineFragione 8 months ago
Great video you explain it so easy people should watch this
anyrock22 8 months ago
atheism is an argument set up to let the beholders get what they want.and it must be just to aggrevate incite those opposed to it whether they be cristians muslim etc you name it.then we are getting into the true motive of all which must be criminality and opposition to authority this can be their only true self they are hiding deflecting their thoughts from ackknowledging it.and lack of prior decipline in their growing up . so it is a monetary venture. but thats just my opinion.
mikr671 8 months ago
@PhysicalsimForever
so you would think sexual promiscuity is something to be supported and to make jokes about it is stupid. Physical forever sound right then. Wish you you get spiitual forever and not mental forever.
fourteatwo 8 months ago
I think its possible thet one guy created the universe in a way,he may have made a alot of suggestions thet others adopted as fact and somehow shaped the worlds perception of reality but other than that im not sure if there was a creator of our physical design.We only see and hear what they want us to see and hear.Sometimes there is something out of the ordinary but for the most part our view of the world was manipulated and istorted,this guy could be relying on what he has learned in school.
DaAlphaOmega 8 months ago