Flight 5055 part1 dramatization of Kabaty disaster

[paulmurphy42]

Which aircraft did they film this reconstruction in? It certainly isn't an IL 62. Does anyone recognise it?

[av21031]

@FlyerKBOS Other operators had engine failures but none resulted in a crash (and IL-62s were flown by 32 countries). If a plane has a low accident rate it can't also be unsafe - it's either one or the other. With 9 fatal crashes plus 3 other fatal incidents the IL-62 rate is lower than VC10, B-707, DC-8/DC9 but LOT never operated them so it's hard to compare. Also, other airlines did regularly service IL-62 engines - there is an Interflug website showing this.

[FlyerKBOS]

@av21031. True it's not impossible that common factor of LOT in both crashes might be possibly related to some additionnal factor, we don't know, deriving perhaps from lack of love to Solidarity by Russians. In any case it's not proof of airlines fault. Other operators suffered same engine problems none of them ever serviced engines. Once turbine explode it's just Russian rulette what blades will hit.

[FlyerKBOS]

There was not variety of engines IL62 used, but just two, both equally bad. Newer IL62M along other modifications simply recieved more efficient DKU. Read previous posts. Romanians and Cubans had very same engines problems too. Also no one who lived in communism gonna buy Russian and East German belony explanations to their incidents. They suffered it too. Typical communist propaganda of success.

[FlyerKBOS]

@av20131. None of the operators of IL-62 ever had, understand recieved license from USSR to service engines themselves, so All of existing IL62 engines were always serviced by Russians only. BTW with some exceptions this is common practice for all world operators not just Russians Poles. Say who can and who cannot service engines belongs to producent to whom operators must heel.

[cc1sportingtorver]

Xexeixeixxeiiiexdeixie... daaaamn... what language is this? =/

[grzestelicki]

@cc1sportingtorver Polish you dumbass! Go to school

[skier137]

Moja mama też miała przylecieć tym samoletem do Ameryki...

[frankyspeaker]

@Burbon108

Burbon108 wrote:

"This clearly shows Russian aviation industry was clearly backward as hell!"

At least Russian planes don't break up in mid air just like that like so many US build planes have. Russian planes don't loose their doors or engines in mid flight lol!! What's that for backwards aviation? Lockheed couldn't even design the engine layout of the F-35 STOVL!! They had to ask Yakovlev for help lol!!!!

You are just biased! No surprise there!

[frankyspeaker]

@Burbon108

LOL!! What i wrote is fact lol!! The IL-62 was build for 32 years wich says

a lot about the IL-62. What are trying to say? Why bring up stuff that has

nothing to do with the facts i posted?? I know about the fuel efficiency

issues and more modern Western planes lol! No need to bring it up.

But denying the fact that the IL-62 wiped the floor with the B 707 and

MD DC8 makes you clueless. Or are you just biased? The IL-62 is an

amazing plane.

[SCANDIN3]

thanks for this

[lilweasel526]

In 80's, when polish military head of state general Jaruzelski travelled to China on board a LOT IL-62, it's been equipped with "special" new engines provided by Russians. When the visit had finished they demanded that those engines were shipped back to Russia. This story is included in the "black series".

[lilweasel526]

I believe there were more cases of IL-62 engine failure in East Germany and USSR, despite the fact that official statements never point to it as the cause of any incident regarding an IL-62.

Living in a comunist country I've learned, that disinformation was one of the most common measures taken by communist authorities to maintain control over society. As flight5055 said before: the government constantly LIED to us. You should remember this when you quote results of soviet research.

[lilweasel526]

@flight5055: Can you give us some more information on LOT's il-62 breakdown over Canada, which you say was the third incident of an engine failure in polish il-62s? When did it happen and which plane did it concern? It's not a well know fact unlike the two previous catastrophies.

[ard767]

There is also a fundamental design flaw with 2 pairs of connected tail-mounted engines in a 3+1 config. The flaw is that the 2 engines are connected on each side, so that an uncontained failure in one engine could damage the one next to it. Hence, the failure mode is not independent. Contrast that to an MD-80 series aircraft, with 2 tail-mounted engines in a 1+1 config. Uncontained failure of one will not likely affect the other, although it can damage the fuselage and/or rear control surfaces.

[flight5055]

BTW in regard to previous discussion w augusta I did some digging. Actually there is 24 incidents relating to IL-62 which can be found in official sources ALONE not as previously thought 15. Romanians not only DID LOST IL-62, but actually they lost to same reason LOTs planes went down. Explosion of engine and fire in the tail. Incident occurred during take off, there was no human loss. Plane was chartered to Trans Asia. Apr 24 1998 / Istanbul (reg: YR-IRD).

[flight5055]

Beside known two cases of engine explosions (TAROM and Cubana) there are also AT VERY LEAST another two other disasters which are extremely suspicious for having same causes as Polish ones. Interflug crash on August 14 1972 was result of fire in the tail and loss of elevator control. According to the official report: //Cause of fire was never determined//.

[flight5055]

Aeroflot crash Jul 06 1982 official report states: Plane crashed as crew shut down two engines which they //mistakenly// (wink wink) thought were on fire.

I also found information in Russian sources about 1967 IL-62 crash in Boston USA. Information about very existence of the plane cannot be found in any official sources.

[aeroavia89]

@flight5055 usual soviet-style cover-up; nothing happened, it was a pure accident...

[augusta613]

If similar accidents occurred to other airlines then is plane problem but to only one airline, then is another reason. Was LOT operation/maintenance compared to other airlines by investigation? Some Polish compare IL-62 with Boeing 767 but 767 is era of IL-86 widebody (successor to IL-62) whereas IL-62 is era of Boeing 707 but with far better safety record. Perhaps get confused as IL-62 still flies today since 1967.

[flight5055]

@augusta613 Actually thats the whole point which I trying to make in this discussion:

1.Similar accidents occurred to other airlines? YES same problem happened to Cubana Airline (at very least) you wrote comment to video yourself there so must know.

2.Was LOT operation/maintenance compared to other airlines by investigation. Job of investigators of accidents (all investigators for that matter) is to find causes of disasters, not trying to make statistics showing which airlines are better.

[flight5055]

Point is: direct cause of disaster was engine, while engines are not maintenance by any airlines at all. They are never touched for any reasons. Each engines comes from manufacturer with certificate defining how long can engine be operated before it need check up. When its time comes, eventually some problem earlier manifest itself, engines are taken from plane in one piece and shipped to Russia.

[flight5055]

Afterwards they are shipped back with new certificate stating its good state, lacks of defects and amount of hr it can be operated. What point would have comparing airlines, while it is known engine was reason for disaster while it is manufacturer who performs maintenance for engines not airlines?

[augusta613]

@flight5055 2793 vs 2800 is 7hr. Point of investigation must be avoid further accident, loss of life. Comparison with other airline practice operating IL-62 for far longer than LOT and with few accidents (and none of this type) should have been point of SP-LAA report. If establish need for turbine vibration checks then, later accident is avoided. Possibly in '80s LOT works in isolation from others (Aeroflot CSA Interflug KLM Ukraine etc), and information not shared.

[flight5055]

Point is it WAS NOT overflown over allowed limit, hence 7h matter. In regard to your comment about commission report, I guess same idea must been shared by Russian which replied to Polish Commission findings. It has to be compared. Never happened it just wasnt it. No need to investigate. Also see you have brand new //isolation// theory LOL Besides correct me, when you referring to those other longer operating safe and honest airlines it gotta be: Aeroflot, Air China and North Korean Airlines.

[flight5055]

BTW - just interesting two pennies. I just watched short program yesterday about air disasters on TV, not sure what channel (living is US). Aeroflot has been called in the program THE MOST dangerous airline of the world. I also did some Googling and found whole bunch of pictures of various Russian planes (including IL-96) showing engines torn by turbines. I think thats very interesting.

[augusta613]

1) Many airlines did Il-62 engine servicing/modifications, including CSA and Interflug (to lower fuel use, amongst other reasons). 2) CCCP 866614 and 86470 were not in Russia, 866614 (1977) hit transmission lines at Havana and 86470 (1982) was a Luxembourg runway overrun. 3) If flight overhaul limit was 2500 as you state why did LOT Il-62 SP-LBG do 2800 hrs since overhaul? 4) If the Il-62 was a poor design why did it last so long? (and how many DC8/707/VC10 still fly today?)

[flight5055]

1) Even possible some modification were made, if they were they would be done on REQUEST of airlines in Russia not by Germans or Czechs

2) Point was they were Russian/Soviet operated

3) Dont know where you have information from. In any case ONLY Russian could have issued hr limit for engines not LOT. Personally never heard about cases above 2500.

4) Consider were it lasted Im sure DC8/707.VC10 are still operated in some third world countries, possible w/o license as well.

[flight5055]

Actually even modifications made to planes body in LOT were done not by LOT but by Russian employees in Poland. I know because I shared room with them while they were doing it. Only Swiss made vibration sensors and gauges were installed by Poles. They installation were considered affront to Russians. For one they were western made, for two their installation was demonstrating Poles question Russian recommendations and expertise.  In those days w/o doubt position could cause someones career.

[flight5055]

It also has to be said that entire process of including number of additional safety modifications and measures happened only after Polish Communist Government intervention in Moscow in which quote: in strong manly discussion Polish position relating to disaster causes was flatly dismissed. It is after this visit, when col Milkiewicz was released of his function.

[flight5055]

Despise fact that by word of LOTs management operating under Communist rules, extra measures made IL-62 safe to fly, common sense dictated that full solid safety could be achieved only after root of the problem was removed. Adding sensors and diagnostic technologies could helped in early detection of upcoming catastrophic engines failure, did not however removed manufacturing defects in engines, which very existence Russians denied.

[flight5055]

Some breakthrough came, when on trip to Canada, already after 2nd disaster one of engines exploded in the air on IL-62. Plane landed safely than returned w/o passengers back to Poland. Since this time plane didnt crash, its engines constituted evidence much harder to deny. It is after this incident where presence of Polish observators in some processes in Soloviev factory was finally allowed.

[flight5055]

Even so, official position of Russia to flight 5055 never changed, despise Glasonost full blown Perstroyka and supposedly changed Russia today. It is believed Russia never came completely clear in relation to many of its disasters. I remember as during Communism we were learning about Soviet air disasters from western short wave radio stations, as no official statements were ever made, especially in relation to disasters within USSR borders, where no westerner was killed.

[flight5055]

Only after IL-62 than Tu-154 which were using same engines type were finally sold, and brand new Beoings 767 bought, lot of people felt relieved. I know for fact pilots were scared. Personally dont blame them. Once sold, finally LOT came into position of operating state of the art equipment. Plane differences were simply beyond comparison in huge numbers of areas. Its fuel economy, service work load, avionics and electronics were raising many eyebrows.

[flight5055]

Despise saying all this, even in my opinion IL-62 besides engines, were quite not terrible for its time. Some people in LOT felt even sentiment to it. Still I believe, considering Polish experience with IL-62, all shady aspects of disaster including Russian denial, as well obvious continues lack of improvement till this very day, arguing about IL-62 safety sounds as denying reality or at very least truthfulness of Polish side of story.

[flight5055]

Frankly its not the first time I coming into arguments with someone who solidly believes no disasters in Russia were ever fully hidden or even possible to hid and IL-62 was safe. But thats usually result of fundamental differences in believe what really was possible or not in Russia. By reading J Oberg book, it appears opinion on that matter vary widely between western hemisphere and average Russian citizen, just as it vary in regard to interpreting many other issues for that matter.

[flight5055]

I heard arguments on different forum stating that such fundamental and massive faults in engines were simply impossible. If they would happen surely lots of people in Russia would beyond doubt be in prisons. For me on other hand, finding things as videos about Cubana flight demonstrates and form my opinion who Russians really are and what they capable of. Even quite ugly cover ups happen also on West, never they seem to happened even close to extend and on scale, as they do in Russia.

[flight5055]

While on West it seems both government propaganda and commercial interest at very least are not fully in control, in Russia it seems to be more of national policy, backed by heavy duty government machine of well greased with money professionals, treating brain washing as science, were deception is composed of many different levels, not scared to resort to brutal violence in its different forms if needed.

[rrynek]

@augusta613 3) Prior to accident in 1987 overhaul limit was 3000hrs for Il-62 and 5000hrs for Tu-154. Polish engineers decided during initial investigation that limit should be reduced to 2500hrs. Some time later Soloviev provided them with statistics showing that most of such failures occurred after more than 1500hrs so overhaul limit was halved- 1500hrs for Il-62 and 2500hrs for Tu-154.

[rrynek]

@augusta613 Vibration detectors were installed to distinguish engines that still could be used( after all engine in SP-LBG survived more than 2500hrs) from the ones that would fail. Thanks to this modification LOT could somewhat reduce maintenance cost because engine overhaul every 1500hrs was very expensive.

1) I have heard about weight reduction introduced by Interflug to reduce fuel use, but they modified planes not engines.2) Two Il-62s from Aeroflot crashed in 1982, CP86470 and CP86513

[rrynek]

@augusta613 4) Il-62 lasted so long because there was no better long-range jet airliner in USSR. In fact there was no other. Il-86 had shorter range due to inefficient engines. Tu-154 was a medium-range plane.

[augusta613]

Flight 5055 I strongly suggest you read 'Airliner in Service around the World, no 2: IL-62' (NARA-Verlag, 2001) by J. Thiel, and the wiki entry for Il-62 which details the history. I don't know why LOT was unable to remove/service Il-62 engines as others did. Interflug had 1 crash (DM-SEA) and 1 aborted takeoff (plane ran off runway). Fifteen incidents in USSR over 43 years with over 165 planes includes 2 fatal crashes: CCCP 86671 in 1972 and CCCP 86513 in 1982.

[flight5055]

Besides: CCCP-866614 68 Fatalities, CCCP-86470 14 fatalities, and lets not forget the most important point, thats all according to OFFICIAL statistics ONLY, where completeness and truthfulness of data is questionable. LOT WAS ABLE to remove engines and it frequently did. Servicing was done however by Russian manufacturer ONLY which was true to ALL airlines in which IL-62 was ever operated. So its not really something which LOT didnt do while others did.

[flight5055]

In aviation industry in general, it is always manufacturer which issues licenses (understand permissions) permitting some range of servicing, also supplying airlines with equipment, technical procedures and training of personnel. In general, airlines do not dare to go against those guidelines as it would void their warranties, service contracts, even possibly could present some serious international aviation law consequences, voiding planes certificate allowing it to fly for instance.

[flight5055]

More immediate reason was simply lack of technical means. Removing weighting few tons shaft from engine requires specially heavy equipment, documentation, tools, skilled personnel none of which Poles had a time. Additionally, any gestures of independence or insubordination to Big Brother , even of much lesser caliber, which btw Poles did anyway, were considered by Russians as hostile actions, which could always resulted (and often did) with range of consequences.

[flight5055]

According to Polish Commission findings, faults found in D-30KU engines in both disasters didnt really come down to some simple technical error (which sometimes happens in aviation), but were rather part of numerous, severe and scandalous manufacturing process lacks, deficiencies and practices, standing sharply against any international standards, even Russians own regulations. After first crash everybody assumed once aware, admitting or not Russian will take action.

[flight5055]

During Moscow visit of Polish Special Disaster Commission team member involved in flight 5055 investigation, one of authors of unfavorable to Russians report, Technical Chief of Polish Air Force col. Milkiewicz introduced himself as Chief in Polish Air Force. In reply, one of Russian officers replied to him: You are mistaken. You WERE chief of Polish Air Force. After his return to Warsaw, indeed he was removed from his function. Story comes from Black Serial.

[flight5055]

Frankly, Russian denial doesnt offend me that much, even I feel I have every right to be offended by it. We all get used to it in communism. Admitting fault would most likely open door to multi million dollar damages which victims families could seek. Personally I finding it however ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS, problems were never corrected neither after first crash, nor after second nor actually till this very day.

[flight5055]

BTW once again, Interflug aborted landing or not thats still 2 crashes. It also remains open question what could have been real reasons of those crashes, even those in Eastern Block Countries including Interflugs take off? In your argumentation augusta, you seems to stuck on one belief which you keep repeating. Safety records. As pointed already, problem is how good are records to which contributes countries known from notorious lies?

[flight5055]

No matter what records, even theoretically assuming you right, point is SAME PROBLEMS CONTINUING TO HAPPENED IN 2009! Or are you saying thats probably Cubans fault as well? Again where you get your 3500h? To my recollection there was no any 3500 hr. Limit was 2500, establish btw by Russian anyway. So even if it would be 4000 Polish would have no any say in it whatsoever, particularly during times were Poland was member of Warsaw Pact

[flight5055]

BTW Wiki article,(as anybody who feel pleased can write there) was written obviously by someone interested in spreading IL-62 propaganda, omitting all unfavorable to it aspects (starting from accusation of copying IL-62 from VC-10, and ending on totally omitting Polish side of the IL-62 story), as well containing all sort of discrepancies.

[flight5055]

Germans this, Czechs that as any of those airlines had any say whosoever in determining engine limits. Engines were sent to Russia. It is Russian which were issuing certificate to engine allowing it to operate defined amount of hours. Airlines were bound to head to those certificates no matter what they were.

[augusta613]

I don't think SP-LAA had D-30KU engines, it had NK-8-4 which are less powerful (part 1 of documentary makes same mistake). Only some Russian airforce planes still use NK-8-4 engine, no civilian ones. IL-86 airliner also uses similar engines (NK-86) but more powerful. IL-86 was planned to be half Polish-built but in Solidarity era, quality is very unreliable so Ilyushin drops Polish portion to 16% and all main structures/ wings/ engines made in Russia.

[flight5055]

I must admit indeed it seems possible I might overlook that planes used different engines. Still this does not change the main point of this discussion, it is that there are known from over 20 years engine problems, which caused human life, which existence was never acknowledged and which were apparently never corrected. Also it does not change fact that engine failures were result of numerous, severe and outrageous manufacturing lacks in BOTH CASES.

[flight5055]

Identically: both engines exploded in result of breaking of engine shaft, severing planes flight controls as well numerous vital systems being direct crash cause. In both cases fault was denied with identical arguments, claiming damage to shaft was result of impact of ground instead manufacturing defects and very reason of disaster

[flight5055]

According to my sources: only difference in first crash argumentation was presented without conducting any investigation or providing any reasons for position at all, while in seconds case 72 page document was sent. Frankly contemplating possibility that engines were possibly made in two entirely different factories (not sure they were), open entire new avenues for thinking.

[flight5055]

I always thought, entire problem came down to some single factory (in Rybinsk), while now it seems not impossible, same problems might be widespread through other manufacturers as well, who knows to what similarity and extend (and if not to entire Russia ???)

[flight5055]

Also in regard to comment regarding Solidarity era, dont you think real reason could have political nature? Again, argument sounds to me as propaganda designed for Russian public, which suppose to demonstrate evil nature of Solidarity. In LOT particular, if not for Solidarity, Special Commission Report would never exist. If crash would happen sufficiently long ago, it seem not impossible even some western spy saboteurs could have been caught and prosecuted.

[flight5055]

Quality was bad in entire communist camp, however if particularly terrible anywhere, it is my sense it was in USSR from always, not pre or post Solidarity Poland or any other Eastern Europe country for that matter.

[augusta613]

Ilyushin want 1/2 Polish built Il-86 but reduce to 16% due to poor quality and uncertain components. I know importer of car Polonez in Solidarity time - many problems - head gasket fail at 5000 mls - warranty costly for importer - needs engine rebuild. After that, import Russian Lada/Niva and tractors. Lada does 200,000-300,000 mls on same engine! Others import Russian lathes/heavy machinery, cameras, projectors other optical products - good quality and low price.

[rrynek]

Well, both Polonez and Lada were derived from Italian Fiat:) And Il-86 was based entirely on Soviet technology. Polish factories made tailplane, fin, engine pylons, control surfaces, flaps. Those are parts that have to be of excellent quality and Polish side started making them in 1977. Ilyushin wanted to transfer wing production to Poland to increase number of planes being built but at the same time protests and martial law in Poland meant that they could not rely on deliveries from Poland

[flight5055]

Very interesting comments. Adding to what already said, anyone who also watched Black Serial (also available on YouTube in English), will learn by mouth of prof Matusik (Polish Special Commission Member), special purpose planes (as for instance one for Polish Communist Party Members), were equipped with SPECIAL PURPOSE engines, which once used, were demanded afterwards back to Moscow.

[flight5055]

Since Russian denies that anything was ever wrong with their engines interesting why they feel Commie brothers need special ones. Doesn't it?

[aeroavia89]

Russian built= limited reliability, and not only with aircraft (e.g submarines)

[ginger0612]

It all came down to the engines for LOT Polish Airlines as the proximate causatiom of IL-62 crashes (March 14, 1980 & May 9, 1987). There might have been other superceding &/or contributing causes, but there is no disputing the proximate cause of the carsh was the engine failure (ironically, the same engine # 2, facing inward to the cabine distintegrated on both Kopernik IL-62 and Kosciuszko IL-62M). Does anyone have any alternative constructive thereoeries about tose two going down?

[augusta613]

42 airlines operated IL-62s since 1967 and it has a better safety record than Boeing 707, DC8/9, VC10 and not one fatality between 1989 & 2009. Most airlines overhauled engines after 2000-2500 hrs with regular turbine checks between but LOT used 3000-3500 hrs (this plane had flown 2800 hrs since overhaul). LOT reportedly could not do engine removal/turbine vibration checks until after 1987. These would have picked up any problem long before it became potentially dangerous.

[ginger0612]

Augusta613: I agree with you, IL-62 is one of the safer planes, and it has a better safety record than Boeng 707, and DC8/9. I was merely stating the "legal" or "proximate" cause of both LOT's crashes. I tell you what, it is still open for debate whether the "legal" or "proximate" cause for those flights going down was either: faulty engines; or, crews applying too much thrust. I know the answer for me: if the thrust wasn't applied to the limit, the engines wouldn't have disintegrated.

[flight5055]

Well, with all do respect, on other hand in regard to gingers reply I must say I disagree about statement pertaining to supposedly perfect safety record and/or safety of IL-62. To me IL-62 was actually anything but safe. What I finding however really SHOCKING it appears it not only was very unsafe, but it continues to be so as it seems problems were actually NEVER completely fixed till this very day (!!!). To remind (thought finished in next post)

[flight5055]

Same engine faults downed 2 planes in Polish Airlines, as well nearly third one. Faulty engines were found on 6 out of 7 LOT operated planes. Apparently the very same engine problem caused emergency landing of Cubana flight in year 2009 (!!! - see end of part 8 of this movie). Russians continues to deny their fault in Polish tragedy till this very day. Decision about getting rid off all IL-62 from LOT, was the very first LOTs decision after regaining independence by Poland.

[flight5055]

Besides Poland, also Czech, Romanians, Egyptians and East Germans lost IL-62 to disaster (Germans lost 2 of them). If you take into account each of airlines had just 5-7 of them, that produces statistic: 14 to 28 % of all ever operated IL-62 crashed. Now when you get additionally into account USSRs, Chinas and South Korea statistic all the sudden IL-62 becomes example of safety and reliability. Makes you wonder does in it?

[flight5055]

Where you get your information about 3500h augusta? Can you quote sources? I actually worked on IL-62 in LOT and must say hearing first time about it. What is true, after 2nd crash, LOT installed Swiss vibration sensors on engine boxes, by the way against the will and to much of dislike of Russian counterpart, plus made some other minor modifications and inventions including not invasive diagnostic methods of shaft (w/o removing it). In regard to Safety Records read reply to frankyspeaker below

[augusta613]

Czech Airlines, Interflug and Cubana had 21, 24 and 28 IL-62s respectively (not 5- 7!). Czech airlines lost 1 (language misunderstanding with Damascus control tower landing at night), Interflug 1 (aircon leak and fire, plus 1 with flaps mistakenly locked so plane didn't takeoff), and Cubana 1 (takeoff during storm). South Korea never operated IL-62. Romania = no accidents, Egypt had one land on a wrong runway (no fatalities). All these over 30 years (1969 and 1999).

[flight5055]

Interfulg: 2 disasters not 1. 08.14.1972 and 11.11.1998. South Korea is of course typo meant North Korea and they do operate IL-62. Romanian TAROM indeed seems like my mistake to all probability. Copied info from my old post and cannot find any source which would refer to it (possibly wrong info). Additionally USSR/Russia 15 incidents and crashes (only of those admitted). Where you get your data about fleet count?

[augusta613]

A 1987 aviation article published after the second crash quoted a LOT spokesperson. Usual IL-62 max limit is 2500 hrs between overhauls. SP-LBG had done 2800 hrs when it crashed.

[flight5055]

Can you quote exact magazine name and number? Was it Polish magazine? I managed to dig some information and if they correct it seems original hour overhaul for IL62 was 2800hr while for TU-154 (same engines) 5000hr. At the time of crash SP-LBG had nearly 2800hrs (even its not clear for which engine, as each engine had own certificate and numbers could very between). After 2nd crash limit was lowered to half for both planes.

[flight5055]

Well after 20+ years memory start to fade, even I do clearly remember 2500 hr limit. In my LOT career I worked on IL-62, TU-154, TU-134, Boeing 767 as well briefly on turboprops. My recollection is 2500 both for TU-154 and IL-62. Its not impossible Im wrong.

[flight5055]

In regard to changing limits, even I dont have exact details how it happened, I would imagine it was not Russian manufacturer which lowered number on their own, but to all likelihood it happened only after intervention from Polish Communist Government/LOT officials, only after 3rd incident, most likely during one of the Moscow visits.

[flight5055]

BTW anticipating question, why hour limit for TU-154 could be higher than IL-62 even they both used exactly same engines, I remember explanation offered once in LOT explaining why Polish TU-154s didnt suffered same fate as IL-62. Since TU-154 being lighter, more modern and economic, simply doesnt operate it engines in same range of loads, hence lower tear and wear and lower probability of failure.

[augusta613]

TU-154 limit is higher as engines are not paired & short haul flight. 2500 hrs limit for IL-62 is correct so not sure why SP-LBG had done 2800 hrs. In IL-62 history with 42 airlines, only 12 fatal accidents as follows: 1 aborted takeoff, 2 landing overruns, 9 crashes. Of 9 crashes, 2 = engine related (LOT SP-LAA & SP-LBG, engine # 2 in both), one = aircon/cargo fire (Inteflug DM-SEA) 5 = weather,navigational, and 1 = misunderstanding (OK-DBF). Accident rate is lower than TU-154.

[flight5055]

@augusta613

It did not have 2800 hrs. It had NEARLY 2800 hrs. Why it has almost 2800 hrs? Because thats what its Soloviev factory issued certificate defined it to be operated. Again quoting statistics. Will skip argumentation, since I did it already earlier.

[av21031]

@ginger0612 The problem is that these planes had different powerplants made by different manufacturers - the only comon factor was the operator. In 48 years flying with 32 nations (incl. 3rd world countries) only two 62s have ever crashed with engine failure and both were LOT. In the 1980s LOT was not equipped to maintain these engines so everything got left until the overhauls which is a very dangerous practice in aviation.

[exeuroweenie]

Isn't the plane in this dramatization a bit smaller than an Il-62?

[incheon]

Yes it was a Yak 20.

[exeuroweenie]

Ok thanks,Yak 42 was a small Russian built regional get right?

[incheon]

Yes 42 I'm sorry, they are small and would compare to a RJ. Some are still used, the newest version of it is much larger it's called the YAK 42D.

[rrynek]

@incheon It was Yak40, probably one of those used by Polish Air Force

[gandzia40]

This plane is a russian shit.

[frankyspeaker]

@gandzia40

Russian shit?? The IL-62 has a FAR better safety record than it's US conterparts from the same class and era it competed against!!! The boeing 707 and MD DC-8 .You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!

[flight5055]

Using Safety Records to make comparison, while it is known Soviets (but also China and North Korea other two large scale users of IL-62) had custom of denying very existence of their disasters, might be good argument for propaganda designed for Russian public, unfortunately I doubt it can persuade anyone living in the free world. It seems even after Glasnost, Russia never came completely clean with many of its faults, just as they continue denying their fault in this tragedy for that matter.

[flight5055]

Would like to recommend very interesting book by James E Oberg: UNCOVERING SOVIET DISASTERS: EXPLORING THE LIMITS OF GLASNOST. Dont believe everything they telling you in your TV- frankyspeaker.

[99arr0w99]

tbh that plane has a lame design lol

[Tupolev102]

Ohhhh It not Il-62 cockpit and cabin it's a yak-40 :) Movie is ok but that fatal misstake about changing planes.

[KarlosLatynos]

I think that IL 62 was just unavalible for them

[IvoryBrother]

I will never forget that day. This tragedy took place exactly the very next day after my 21st birthday. The day after the crash my best friend Daniel called me from New York and with a somber voice he said: "Alex, my mom was on that plane". I was devastated. Today, 22 years after this terrible accident... when I think of it... I still have tears forming in my eyes.

[ginger0612]

Czy podobny program byl zrobiony o Koperniku IL-62 (SP-LAA), ktory sie rozbil 14 marca 1980? Byloby fajnie go zobaczyc, jezeli istnieje. Dzieki.

Has a similar documentary been made about Kopernik IL-62 (SP-LAA) that crashed on March 14, 1980? It would be great to see it if it exists. Thanks.

[flight5055]

Yes it was, however it was more of documentary than dramatization. Search You Tube for: Katastrofa samolotu Ił - 62 "Kopernik" (1). I never made English caption translation to it, because I felt, movie contains number of serious errors and overstatements.

[ginger0612]

Flight5055, thank you for making this stuff available, amazing! Excellent re-construction of that fateful day. The reconstructive formula resembles the US series "seconds from disaster." Very informative and objective. Again, thanks.