fight consumerism

[Dupet]

resoucesmap.de is a website where people may put their needs and offers online on a map. Instead of throwing away something you don't need anymore, try to find someone who needs it.

[DragonAurora]

I wrote a paper on this subject; if anyone is interested in reading it, send me a message.

[Nosferat23]

We have only ourselves to blame. We wanted stuff based on how they make us feel, now we are the prisoners of our own desires. You do not buy based on value for money or what it can do for what you pay. You pay for how that thing makes you feel, making yourself even more empty on the inside, even more hooked to buy stuff you do not need. search on YouTube after Adam Curtis : The Century Of The Self.

[TheBrutalDeluxe]

Just above the Wikipedia paragraph you copied and pasted regarding Cuban child immigrants in the USA, there's a paragraph stating that 100, 000 Cubans emigrated to the US prior to the revolution. It would seem that emigrating to the USA had been a choice Cubans had been making regardless of what economic system was in place in their homeland.

Here we go again with the pro-consumerism non-argument about the hypocrisy of an anti-consumerist using a PC. I am NOT a Luddite!

[LoganBlackP]

Consumerism is the reason why modern medicine and technology exsist. Your on a computer because a "Capitalist Pig" thought that they could make fame and fortune with the bonus of benifieting humanity by inventing it. So of course greed drives the system. But is it bad? Sometimes, sure. But in the long run it got us from the victorian age to our modern capitalist society. And if you dont like it, join an amish community.

[TheBrutalDeluxe]

@LoganBlackP

Balls! Lister & Fleming didn't work for multinationals. Their pioneering work was motviated by altruism not profit. Technology has been been steadily advancing since the first flint hand tool was crafted and was therefore in existence well before capitalism or consumerism. Technology was and still should be about making our lives easier. Not bringing out an I-phoneX that offers little improved functionality over its predecessor in order to boost profit.

[LoganBlackP]

@TheBrutalDeluxe Why would they make flint hammers? It wasnt for the good of the group but so that they had a lead over the other animals. Soon that led to consumerism, but if your so certain that we could advance without capitralism. Then please, tell me two things that cuba managed to invent before it became a communist country. Not a god damn thing. Infact they are stuck in time with cars from the 50's and 80 year old buildings because they cant even afford new technology.

[TheBrutalDeluxe]

@LoganBlackP

I don't understand your contradictory 1st statement. Surely it would be for the good of the group to have a lead over other animals. Advances in technology do not lead to consumerism. Capitalism leads to consumerism and consumerism feeds a capitalist economy.

Again, I don't understand your contradictory 2nd statement. You seem to be using communist Cuba to knock communism yet you ask me to tell you 2 things invented in Cuba before it became a communist country.

[LoganBlackP]

@TheBrutalDeluxe My apologies, i meant "after". And it's good to have a lead over other animals. But that was fueled by greed. The main ingredient for consumerism. And consumerism does lead to advances in technology, its been proven again and again in capitalist or near capitalist countries. But for some reason you people believe that if we get rid of consumerism (which will no doubt result in government owned companies) we will still be able to advance as a civilization. Look at cuba and berlin

[TheBrutalDeluxe]

@LoganBlackP

Point one:

A quick look at your profile tells me you're Canadian. If you're French-Canadian and struggling with the English Language then fair enough. If not, you seem to be confusing the social phenomenon of Consumerism (a preoccupation with and an inclination toward the buying of consumer goods) with the economic system Capitalism (an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods).

There is a difference.Use the search engine of your choice.

[TheBrutalDeluxe]

Point two:

You repeatedly use Cuba to denounce anti-consumerism yet the argument you make about Cubans driving cars from the 50's only highlights the anti-consumerism viewpoint. Who cares that Cubans drive old cars? Only people with shinier cars. Surely as 21st century humans we should be less obsessed with comparing our shiny things and be more interested in things that matter, such as healthcare and education.

[TheBrutalDeluxe]

cont...

The mighty economic powerhouse that is the USA ranks 37th in the ranking

of the world's health systems. "Backwards" Cuba lies a mere 2 places behind. The USA is ranked 20th in the worlds literacy rate league. Cuba is ranked 2nd. Surely that's more important to the people of Cuba than having the latest I-pod/pad/phone or gas guzzling SUV. But I'm not trying to defend communism, just trying to point out the superficiality of consumerism. Watch a film called The Joneses. It might help.

[LoganBlackP]

@TheBrutalDeluxe The chart that you pulled up is not really based on the quality of health care but actaully on life expectancy which has nothing to do with health care. Think about it, if you get hit by a car and die, was that the health care systems fault (keep in mind that american cars go 200 km/h while cubans can hardly get theres to work? Of course not, also keep in mind that in America they eat to die while in cuba they eat to survive.

[TheBrutalDeluxe]

@LoganBlackP

The WHO ranking of health systems wasn't based solely on life expectancy at all. If it was it would be called the WHO ranking of life expectancy. In the United Nations table of life expectancy the USA and Cuba lie joint 36th. Your claim that Americans eat to die implies excess, which is the whole point of anti-consumerism. Every time you knock Cuba, you substantiate the anti-consumerism viewpoint.

[LoganBlackP]

@TheBrutalDeluxe And as for illiteracy, castro decided that no cuban should be illiterate and promptly did so in 1960. So what did he do? He allowed 120 000 volenteers come and teach them from OTHER countries. But if you dont believe me then ask the millions of cubans who immagrated from their homeland to the U.S. Cuban parents even sent children alone to the united states with just the clothes on their back; 14,000 to be exact. And what did the horrible capitalist U.S do?

[TheBrutalDeluxe]

@LoganBlackP

Why should I believe you when you don't know the difference between immigration and emigration? Don't even start me on the irony of your spelling in a post about literacy. But even if what you say about 120 000 volunteers is true, so what! Why should it matter where their teachers came from?

[LoganBlackP]

@TheBrutalDeluxe I can see your running out of arguments cause the only one you really have is about my spelling. Well lets just ignore that for a second and pretend its perfect, try sticking to the topic. And immigration is the exact same as emigration except its seen from the perspective of the original country. Our topic is American consumerism so its still immigration. And the point i was making about volenteers is the fact that cuba was too poor to train its own teachers, i wonder why...?

[TheBrutalDeluxe]

@LoganBlackP

Life's too short for me to waste any more of mine responding to you. As you clearly are either not reading or failing to understand what I'm writing this is how it's going to work. I'm going to advise you again to watch the Joneses, while hoping that Canadians have a better grasp of satire than irony, and you can respond with an internet insult of your choice. Though I'd like to point out beforehand that I am straight and I'm not retarded.

[LoganBlackP]

@TheBrutalDeluxe Your straight and not retarded? what does that have to do with... God damnit, i wont even bother. And your right about the 100 000, if you read on you would realize that it was during the great depression, a time of economic crisis. No doubt a flaw in the system, but still better than any system you have to propose. Now go find some more statistics to manipulate for me

[LoganBlackP]

@TheBrutalDeluxe They gave them access to public assistance, medicare, free english speaking classes, and low intrest loans to start a buisness. Did they come because of the terrible lure of consumerism? Not at all, they came because they new there was a better life for them in america. A place where you start with nothing and end up building an empire. Thats true capitalism. If you dont like it then take off our clothes you bought, throw away the pc/mac computer and go to Cuba.

[MTCoblivsicas12345]

Many a man thinks he is buying pleasure, when he is really selling himself to it.

[skuflix]

If you are into consumerism commentary and sarcasm, have a look at channel "StillUsing". We're looking for other users who, instead of buying the latest technology, are happy to keep using older ones, for the lousy reason that they still work. We're hoping for some real finds: typewriter, tape recorder, etc.

[StillUsing]

We're into fighting consumerism. We're also making fun of it with our "still using" channel. Pretending that using outdated technology is like drug use that needs to be cured. Because that's the message we get from ads and media. Gotta have the latest iPad, iPhone, etc. We're hoping that other youtubers will come and share their usage of "outdated" technology...

[tasmanfist]

let's have half the world's population live the fashion as Socrates did, the other half shall do the same not long afterwards...

[saintgauden]

American Consumerism is idiotic and its only purpose is to make Americans slaves to the elites and to make the elites wealthy. There is no way to convince the average American that this is what it really is...so trying to enlighten anyone is usually a waste of time...go ahead pigs...consume...soon the elites will come to slaughter you.

[exitsevenyouth]

Anyone know where I can get a high quality copy of this video

[zoquibax]

Fight everything? Challenge all? So I should start rejecting the left and that whole "progressive" political cadre then.

[crowbs90]

i never understood consumerism... even with ads glamourising products, i never understood why people fell for it that hard when you have to spend most of your life working just to afford it. i dunno why we can't have a free market and just let people buy what they need without encouraging them to buy extra. can't we outlaw it or something? because the sort of psychological techniques that corporations use in their ads is beyond good salesmanship, it's nothing short of brainwashing.

[joshblf]

@ ILoveRavenc walking away = running away. At this stage of consumerism you have to actively start change by educating the general public on the pro's and con's of the issue and let them decide for themselves. If you walk away and do nothing that leaves it a one party system with consumerist profiteers on top with no opposition.

[ILoveRavenc]

literally fighting against something has never in the history of mankind produced 100% success,whatever your ideas of "right" and "wrong" may be ,in the end you are still doing the exact same thing to another person you don't wish to be done to you and that is forcefully shoving your ideals down their throats for your own personal greater good.

while i am against addiction to materialistic things and perfectionism aswell ,i will never start some sort of crusade against it,i will just walk away

[Thecrazytwistedworld]

The Crzy Twisted World... degekgedraaidewereld.bogspot.c­om

[nethacker91]

Good job guys, many are blinded and can't realize this spin zone we got into ..

[TomaSkTemplar]

people argue about things that are not the point really. Its not about resources of this planet growing thin, but about how they feed you with misinformation. No matter what lie you will believe unless you know what their aims are... to control and rob you you the whole life and become a slave ... of a lie. It will never make somebody happy, They may think they are, but always temporarily, wanting more.

may I ask what means sequitur ? :-)

[ShowtekGER]

i agree with the sentiment but blaming everything on the "greed of the corporations" is getting old. corporations are no magical entities, they are run by humans. so is the over-consumption of the western world and the suffering of peoples in less fortunate countries. we must find solutions together. we don't fight a war against deliberate oppressors.

[CesarManiaX]

A communist made this video

[trakkaton]

Stoping consumersim a a first sign that a person has woken up.

[DEW409]

What a worthless video. More left wing hypocrisy. I suppose you used a commodore 64 to make this video? Point is, I will buy what I need / want, You buy what you need / want, and you stop preaching your BS. Do you think all of us are so stupid we run out and get everything we see advertised? Besides, most of that stuff makes life better. If you do not think so, get rid of your computer, your iphone, and the rest of your junk and go live in a cave.

[CaptainKrauser]

@DEW409 That's right. This whole mentality is just fascism masquerading as "fighting the power".

[trakkaton]

@DEW409

1. It is the goal of advertising to buy stuff you don't need. Grow a brain, seriously.

2. Obviously you haven't ever lived in a different way and haven't traveled much. Otherwise you'd know that most of the trash affluent chauvinists consume is expendable.

3. If consumerism would be necessary, the corporaions wouldn't spend so much money on manipulation/ thought control to programm the zombies into buying. But obviously you neither understand the economy nor psychology.

[oorgah]

@DEW409 One of the many bad things about marketing is that it s hijacked every single notion, value and meaning.. and - with the help of propaganda techniques like repetition in ridiculous levels- turned them into cheap imitations. If we choose to live without seeing the bigger picture is another thing. . .

[CaptainKrauser]

Anybody who wants to control what you do with your money on your own terms is a fascist. It doesn't make them any less fascist because they crusade in cute little new age "possessions maaaaan!" clothing.

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

"Your money" is just the result of slavery, destruction, looting and murder.

[CaptainKrauser]

@trakkaton It's also the result of me getting a job and working for it. I don't buy what I don't need, however, if I want something, and it's completely within reason, I'll buy it.

Anti-consumerists are right to caution people about mindless buying and encourage practicality. However, when their ulterior motive is simply to control people, I draw the line.

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

If political activists would want to control people, they'd become some gov drones, collaborators of the system,instead of getting sprayed on with chemical weapons and hit on by fascist pigs on demonstrations they join purely because of idealism.

If you really think that what you do at a job has any realtion to the money you get then what is a chinese sweatshop worker with a 100h-week supposed to earn? Not the 100th part of what you get?

And 95% of jobs are unproductive anyway.

[CaptainKrauser]

@trakkaton If I get paid by my boss at the (relatively small) business I work at, how does that relate to the Chinese sweatshop worker? If you're talking about corporations that still use sweatshops, then I agree those are bad and should be boycotted.

But if you want to tell people they don't have a right to buy things the way they see fit, you are, in fact, looking to control them. Besides, what's the hypothetical solution to the system we have now? Anti-consumerists never have one...

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

1. Oh, then name one sport shoe manufacturer that doesn't exploit people in sweatshops?

2. The money you get from an owner of capital only is worth as much as you can buy from it. And you buy products of slavery from it. If you would buy fair products you might start to get into financial trouble. So the slavery of people is reproduced down the hierarchy. You must have slaves because you are one.

3. Consumism is total control: manipulation, brainwashing, coercion, all combined.

[CaptainKrauser]

@trakkaton

1. I don't wear sport shoes, so I don't worry about my money going to them...

2. You say this as if I condoned sweatshop slavery or said it didn't exist or didn't matter. Yes, sweatshop slavery is bad, and should be gotten rid of, by that I mean the companies who do it should be boyotted. I already said that, so what are you doing besides agreeing with me? Did I trivialize or undermine the suffering of slaves and sweatshop workers somewhere in my comment? Where?

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

1. It's called a pars pro toto. You DO wear shoes, do you? Answer the question. And don't stop with the shoes, go on with all your clothing, all the stuff you buy.

2. You can't boycott the whole system, unless you become a drop out. What you don't understand is that it's not about specific corporations, but about almost ALL corporations. I didn' talk about condoning or not, don't put words in my mouth. I described what actually happens in the system, not whether you like it.

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

4. Ignorance is no viable argument. You can't say something doesn't exist just because you are too ignorant to know about it. There's Panocracy, Raeterepublicans, the Venus Project, the Permaculture movement, Anarchoprimitivists, Transition Towns, regional money, to just not know about all those things is not a position of strength.

[CaptainKrauser]

@trakkaton 3. Did I...deny this? Did I say "Consumerism is awesome" or something? Yes, they trick us where did I say the opposite of this?

4. More words in my mouth. I never said these options didn't exist, nor did I object to any of them. It's ironic that you bring up panocracy, as that's what I've been talking about--the rights of all. In fact, this whole angle you’re running on here is the *economic* angle of anti-consumerism, the angle of it that I already said I mostly agreed with.

[MrJimmyNapoleon]

CaptainKrauser, I think you maybe confusing anti-consumerism with anti-materialism.

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

3. You claimed that Anti-consumism could be some form of control+coercion where it rather is the exact opposite: The abolishment of control and coercion. You don't understand it because you don't understand the despotic nature of our money system, of capitalism, of consumerism and think that those systems are OK and the opponents of those are some kind of troublemakers.

4. "Anti-consumerists never have one..." - "I never said these options didn't exist" Ouch! Read your own stuff.

[CaptainKrauser]

@trakkaton

It's all based on massive assumption. Despite corporations that are exploiting slaves, people could be encouraged to shop at mom-and-pop stores, restaurants, shop at places like Goodwill or pawn shops for things they need, as these are not massive corporations, but other people.

That would be an option, excpept anti-consumerists expect us to do away with the entire system just because of what some corrupt coporations are up to.

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

1. MnP-stores sell the same slave labor products.

2. Trying to convince the masses to do something is always a poor strategy as it has the least chance of success. People follow their socialization and most of the socializations are: Dumb fat square couch potato with no conscience. That's why you won't get rid of Nike and CocaCola with boycots.

3. Concentration of power is immanent in capitalism.

4. The "entire system" is still all we have, your alternatives are an illusion.

[CaptainKrauser]

@trakkaton

It hardly even matters if we could take slavery and suffering out of the equation of the system--if we worked out some sort of society, ie, one without capitalism, anti-consumerists would still find a way to keep people from buying things, telling them they don't need "posessions", what they really need is "spirituality", or some BS variation of that.

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

Fallacies:

- not responding to the comment

- baseless speculation

- missing the point

- absence of any evidence

- non sequitur

[CaptainKrauser]

@trakkaton

And, of course, if you're on the Interwebs, then you have absolutely no right to point fingers at the "masses" of "consumers". Unless you built your computer out of twigs in the wild, or sow clothes yourselves from animals, then most likely you've "consumed", and you're just another one of the masses. As am I. As ol' Mr. Durden would say, "We're not special".

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

Fallacies:

- false dichotomy

- quote mining

- non sequitur

[santis142]

So how do we end consumerism? The same way Tyler Durden did in Fight Club by blowing up all the credit card companies?

[trakkaton]

@santis142

That's just one aspect of it. Don't forget the human sacrifices, the fight clubs, the undermining of the police, the destruction of corporate art and shopping malls, the blackmailing of corporations, the adbusting, the destruction of sat antennas, the blanking of video tapes, and all the other great stuff in the book/ film. Diversity is the key.

[CaptainKrauser]

Actually, santis142, "Fight Club" wasn't condoning those actions--rather, it was portraying the anti-consumeists as being just as reprehensible as the corporations.

[CaptainKrauser]

@trakkaton Except for where the movie showed the main character as a cult leader and a terrorist who ends up getting people killed, you're right, I definitely don't have anything to back that up.

[CaptainKrauser]

@CaptainKrauser Oh, and of course, the part where the director outright said it was mocking the fascist ideology of the the main character(s). That's a little difficult to tiptoe around.

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

What "part" are you even talking about? I remember the press conference where Brad Pitt claimed that the movie is about our society becoming more brutal - you don't believe that silly trash either, do you? Still Brad Pitt impersonated Tyler Durden (while this fictional Tyler Durden is ridiculing the real person Brad Pitt).

[CaptainKrauser]

@trakkaton "What "part" are you even talking about?" An interview with director David Fincher from Empire in 1999.

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

That interview, if it exists, doesn't seem to be online, so it's a moot point.

Besides, you really didn't address the point that I made: That Brad Pitt impersonates a person he doesn't understand and that is actualy mocking him ("you are not your cargo pants" - Brad Pitt Ad for luxury watches TAGHeuer "What are you made of?" - and that IS online). Artist don't have the sole authority to make valid interpretations, in fact, in Fight Club it's OBVIOUS how that fails.

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

That's your personal interpretation, nothing more. Anyone could claim that it shows a charismatic leader and freedom fighter.

[CaptainKrauser]

@trakkaton But it's not an interpretation that he gets countless people killed at the end, and robs the members of club of their identities. If he's a hero, then so is Jim Jones, so is Marshall Applewhite.

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

He doesn't get people killed. The only one that is actually killed is Robert Paulson, who says about the time with T.D. that "He has never been so happy in his life". All the skyscrapers are evacuated because the security staff is in on Project Mayhem (as is the police). Have you even watched the movie???

And how is he "robbing" any identity? You don't know what identity theft is. Robbing is actually using violence to steal something. Not founding an org that you can join.

[CaptainKrauser]

@trakkaton And the buildings collapsing at the end, surely someone's going to get a wee bit of a scratch? Even if the buildings are empty, there's debris and wreckage of the COLLAPSING buildings that are sure to jack up the death toll.

The point the movie's making is that you need to hold onto your individuality at all costs--society will rob you of it, and so will false prophets and cults.

[CaptainKrauser]

Also, there are obvious references to religious cults: having the space monkeys shave their heads, the chanting ("His name is Robert Paulson"), the fact that they would do anything Tyler told them without question.

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

Fallacies:

- baseless speculation

- non sequitur

Shove your unending fallacies up your ass and continue to talk to yourself, ever repeating the same long-debunked and alogical BS!

[santis142]

@CaptainKrauser You mean it wasnt against consumerism?

[CaptainKrauser]

@santis142 Well, it was, but not entirely. The true message behind the story is for individualism, to find your own way, to free your mind from both society's clucthes AND to question the false prophets (e.g, Tyler Durden) who try to offer alternatives, but are really only there to exploit people (i.e, Tyler was only building the Space Monkey army to wreak havoc and get people killed).

[trakkaton]

@CaptainKrauser

Next time when you try to discuss a movie WATCH IT FIRST.

T.D. was blowing up the buildings in order to reset the debt, therefore freeing all those people that are in debt slavery. He saved countless lives. He saved countless lives with everything that he did. How many suicides did he prevent with the fight clubs, the human sacrifices?

[david0861513636]

@guyotg Capitalism has "lifted the qualities of lives in an unprecedented way"?Then why is America almost not in the top 20 leader board in terms of university science graduates. Why has the Americas national happiness index been steadily falling since the post WWII consumerism was initiated. Why is America ranked THIRTY SEVENTH in the World Health Organization's ranking

of the world's health systems. Go buy a HD T.V subscription you brainwashed moron.

[guyotg]

@david Well this is exactly the level of debate I expect from conspiratorial hippies. I find it hard to believe that consumerism is the sole factor causing 'happiness' indexes to fall in the Americas: consumerism isn't the only thing happening in those countries. Simple ad hominem arguments and flashy videos dosn't really put forth any argument against it, either. Some of the points in the presentation just stated facts without citing its supposed immorality. And I'm supposedly brainwashed!

[guyotg]

Lolololol. Yeah everything is made so you'll want it, thanks for stating the obvious. This is how things are sold, this is how companies afford to pay workers, this is how workers afford things like a place to live, utilities, health, transport and so much more. Capitalism and 'consumerism' has lifted the quality of lives in an unprecedented way.

[trakkaton]

@guyotg

Nothing is made so you'll need it, everything is advertized so you'll buy it. That's a difference, and nothing is obvious here. The best things die out in capitalism, because it is a system that fails on multiple levels.

[samizdabestdude]

@guyotg Yeah I agree with the way that you say Capitalism and consumerism has lifted the quality of lives, but who's lives? Mainly the rich, and that is it, and I'm talking about the bigger picture here, its ok over in our developed countries, but there is still poverty and 4000 children die a day from unsanitised water, so overall for the globe it has made things worse, but its easy for you to say because your like me and the rest of us in the rich 6% that own 96% of the worlds wealth.

[samizdabestdude]

@guyotg and the reason it has made it a worse place is many reasons but Ill give two, #1, people would rather help themselves and live in luxury and just forget about the poor and be greedy because that's how were brought up today, so rather than help the poor, you'd spend that money on a brand new material possession. and #2 all the wealth has been obtained by the greedy and the few, instead of being shared for the good of the world.

[Trackfresh]

@guyotg Yea especially when you consider sweatshops and slavery. I'm sure their lives were vastly improved. Fuck you.

[MaskedMarvel20XX]

They've lifted the quality of your life. Its devastated the quality of life for many more. If we dumped the waste somewhere you could see it you would probably be changing your tune.

[MaskedMarvel20XX]

@guyotg They've lifted the quality of your life. Its devastated the quality of life for many more. If we dumped the waste somewhere you could see it you would probably be changing your tune.

[CommonPurpose1]

sanitized media handed in nice bite size blocks of information so people think at a level less the one percent of what it was 70 years ago before this enfected our lifes like a Virus do you ever hear some one with there own point of View or what was handed to them ?

[ShowtekGER]

it's so ironic that i can fully agree with this and call myself an "anarchist", an "anti-consumerist" and an "absurdist" while i still try to be the one that has more than anyone else- like everyone else does. if i can't change even if i do see the necessity in it, how can billions of other people before it's too late?

[mormor39]

where did this video come from? who made it? I'd like to ask them some questions.

[DarkLordCallMeDickC]

Good video.

[sugartearsxm]

I like the video, but the source of our problems does not originate from the greed of corporations. That is like pointing your finger at a large glob of problems, which solves nothing and just makes the solution more vague. The reason why this is such a touchy subject, is because our country is as linked to consumerism as modern interpretation of Constitution allows. We are now world citizens, we need to start acting like ones. Every individual must take responsibility for their own freedom.

[bad4ever2001]

@sugartearsxm

So where do our problems come from? I am sure you did not finish that tangent properly. Please elaborate :}

[sugartearsxm]

I don't know, bad4ever2001, the answer is beyond me, but thank you for asking because it got me thinking. I don't think I can respond objectively from the rigidities of consumerism when I'm wearing a Juicy Couture T shirt. Nonetheless I can try, I'll get back to you and offer my two cents in time.

[bad4ever2001]

@sugartearsxm

Ah no worries. You should see the lacoste shirt I bought for 75 pounds a year ago... I think a part of my face is still sore from the obligatory face palms I administer on a daily basis. As to your earlier post, I have been exposed to information which leads me to believe that the source of our problem lies with the monetary system of economics we have today. For as long as money exists and is in use, there will always be greed and corruption. You heard of the Venus Project?

[WiseApe7]

I also notice that the video doesn't offer up any solutions or viable alternatives - in fact it really has no purpose at all in that regard.

its only effect is to stir up some transient indignation in the sort of fool who simultaneously decries the evils of western consumerism whilst also lapping up its myriad benefits.

The hypocrisy is almost palpable...

[bad4ever2001]

@wiseape7

Would you then agree that our current economic system demands infinite consumption even though we live on finite resources?

[WiseApe7]

I'm certainly no economist but the issue of sustainability is one i find to be a bit too complex to talk about it such basic terms

Although its certainly true to say that our current rate of consumption [of natural resources] is not sustainable into the long term (next two centuries say), such a statement fails to take into account a number of very important factors that determine the rate of consumption. (continued)

[WiseApe7]

For one it doesn't consider technologocal development, which promises us more from less, alternative sources of energy etc.

It ignores basic economic drivers, if we take oil for instance - as it gets more and more difficult to supply, prices go up and consumers look to alternatives (in the form of alternative fuels, electric vehicles, micro-generation etc.) (continued)

[WiseApe7]

this drives competition in the alternative energy generation sector - increasing its market share (the multiplier effect kicks in) and lowering its prices - making it available to more and more consumers and thus increasing its demand. Eventually the demand for oil dimishes until it is again very much sustainable for its then limited use. This mechanism can be applied across any number of resources. (Continued)

[WiseApe7]

As i say, im no expert and all of what i have said is certainly a simplification of the matter and whether or not it stands true is open for debate, but one thing i will say is that in my opinion it is a far more complex and nuanced situation than you suggest.

[sugartearsxm]

I find it respectable that you defend your views, but the fact that you are flaming many who are not consistent with your beliefs damages your credibility. But then again, you do bring up a good point, that none of us have a solution. Perhaps I have misread, but you believe the solution is no solution because there is no problem in the beginning. Thank you for sharing that belief. Here, I wonder why that viewpoint is not my own.

[WiseApe7]

I don't mean to come across as pig-headed (i can see how it can seem that way though) but i wouldn't go as far as to say i was flaming.

I dont have any emotional attachment to my views, im interested in what works and what is true and im more than willing to have my views challenged and proven incorrect.

It's not that i dont believe there to be a problem - it's just that i dont even fully comprehend what that problem is, let alone its solution.

[scolaynic]

What if its too late? Im not sure if my generation understands. We grew up in the 90s during the largest economic expansion in U.S. history. The fact that we grew up around consumerism makes it difficult to change sadly.

[elbowbiter1]

Dear John Q Public,

Great Vid, Now everyone stop voting and shopping and get to producing new sustainable infrastructure. No more complaining about the war... we are the war. Brown babies die every day so that we can own the shit we loose interest in the moment it get's through the front door. Fuck money and "Reject the system dictating our norms."

Peace,

Biter.

[bad4ever2001]

@elbowbiter1

I like your thoughts man, have you heard about the Venus Project?

[elbowbiter1]

Yep, sure have. Joined the ZM in '08. Big week coming up are you in?

[bad4ever2001]

@elbowbiter1

Am currently working on a promo video [which is very late now but heck...] for the event. I do plan to visit one in London if it hasn't sold out :D

[therarasblabla]

This video is too fast and the type is too small to read with ease. I think its a good message though.

[PureCore]

Its a big problem, without consume , theres no development, i think consume should be an ecollogical consume, if this possible ?

[bad4ever2001]

@purecore

It is. Look up the Venus Project.

[ConsumerBear]

I would really love to see this expanded into about a 10- or 20- minute video that goes more in depth.

[ashpash0812]

great video!!! im suing this as a visual aid 4 my speech tomorrow!!! thanx!

[immahotpepper]

great video. It educated me, you see im doing a project right now about this XD.

[Fight4Privacy]

Consumerism is in my opinion an un-natural way of living. Our minds are exploited by people who want to take advantage of us for their own personal gain. At the end of your life will you be thinking my life could have been so much better if I had consumed more products?

[mainmenu895]

People should be educated to live in a more phylosofical way. While the masses are more interested in sitting their butt on a comfortable chair that the TV recommended, we will go nowhere. Aren't human interactions entertaining enough already? Do we need junk like MP4's, cellphones, new school material every year, a big car, flat screens all over the place? No! Stop living an individualist society, forget materialism.

[bad4ever2001]

@mainmenu895

Even if it seems I am spamming this side of you tube, I would highly recommend you look up the Venus Project. It is a possible solution to our society's problems. Peace onto you brother.

[RunYazRun]

I stoped watching tv for almost a year and my life has changed...much happier and I care less about materials

[Gaznugget]

Yes, I could easily imagine how watching no television would make you happier. It's a shame, I'm glued to these crappy programs. If I could do what you did, give it up, then I could go shopping more, go bowling with friends, or go to the cinema (if you count that as not watching TV!)

[nocturnezero]

I doubt the point of his video against frivolous shopping is to stop watching TV so you can shop more.

[Gaznugget]

You must excuse what I said earlier, reading it now, I understand how wrong it is. I only meant in my personal life I would rather be out there enjoying the world, rather than staying home and being brainwashed by adverts telling me to buy things I don't need. I do not think consumerism is good at all, even the word sounds awful. No one can justify a world where parasites (us) consume all the Earth has to offer, draining it of it's recourses so that there will be none left for our children.

[nocturnezero]

No problem. I totally understand what you're saying now.

[Bizarrnonsense]

@RunYazRun yeah i did that too! the deal with watching tv stop making sense as soon as the next row of commercials flushs through the screen.. ouh yeah thx film and music industry, you reached such a big level of disgust, that i wont ever feel a need of buying something from you again :]

pointing people more and more towards the way of piracy will sure help us getting rid of you, thx

[soia421]

@RunYazRun that is completely true im a couple years off of tv. Now I cant stand the mind numbing sound of commercials i truly think that commercial images cause brain damage. READ ADBUSTERS!!!!

[sausagerollnah]

Stunning video.

[Harpenboper]

Really good vid, you should include the links at the end in you'r sidebar.

[kutthroat84]

very good

[millball]

we ARE forgetting that the majority of the masses are mindless dolts that need junk like iPods and shit to give their lives meaning... if we all stopped what would happen? I agree with the message... but you take something out of the picture, you're gonna have to put something in its place.

[devinodonnell2]

just wanted to let you know i put your theme in my paper on consumerism and my teacher liked it....thanks

[bad4ever2001]

@millball

I totally agree with you. If we drastically reduced consumption, we would have a recession in this fucked up economy but it would also crash the system. As to what can replace it, I am throwing my bet in with the Venus Project. I highly recommend you look it up.

[romanticcatastrophe]

awesome

[wearesource]

If people are truly interested in knowing the true nature of the consumer illusion, social control and social psychology, an immeasurable wealth of information can be found in Adam Curtis' 2 series, 'The Century of Self' The consumer culture that was indeed engineered to rebuild post war America, and became a popular model and the very heart of capitalism. Also recommend 'The Power of Nightmares'. We face a crescendo of crises culminating to one point. Inform yourself and then others. Mindshift.

[wearesource]

We fail to educate ourselves so who is to blame? Enough pointing the finger, and pull OUR finger out and do something about it. Sure we have been mesmerised by the targeted advertising that focus groups produce (and they do it oh so well). We lap it up! Companies are designed to give us what we want. If we change our buying patterns, OR STOP BUYING ALL TOGETHER, or make informed purchasing decisions based on the full impact the product has. We need to understand the key issues and unify action!

[bad4ever2001]

@wearesource

Totally agree with you buddy. Mind me asking, have you heard of the Venus Project?

[eric731]

True. Our religion of Consumerism is destroying us.

[Almostguru]

this is great, man

[WiseApe7]

i agree that it is a well made film, though the message is something that i don't agree with.

[millball]

whats your opinion on it WiseApe?

[nocturnezero]

You think Consumerism is a good thing?

[WiseApe7]

Consumerism works well for me, its allowed me improve my standard of living dramatically over what previous generations have endured - i find this video patronising and condescending (whether it was intended or not) and i dont like the implication that im unable to take control of my own choices or that i need soemone to tell me the 'true' meaning of happiness or the key to it.

I enjoy the trappings the modern age has provided me, as im sure many others do too..

but thats just my opinion.

[safiwoo]

I agree 100% I'm from China and i also have friends in China want everything the west has, we too can finally live like you to a point. More and more of my commrades can afford these things in life, i just purchase my first side by side refridgerator. It's made here of course. But is a state of the art fridge. Next months i buy big flat screen television.

[bad4ever2001]

@safiwoo

Safi, have you ever considered that the essence of our economic system demands non stop consumption? But do you also realize that our planet has finite resources? What if we run out of these resources? I highly suggest you change your current outlook. We are wasting mass loads of resources for nothing due to over consumption; it is insanity; pure undilluted insanity, our species cannot continue this way.

[canaan1967]

@WiseApe7

You are a self interested parasite. Like we give a fuck aobut your "standard of living". Do you know what your standard of living costs the world? Those people in the World Trade Towers suffered painful unimaginable deaths for your lifestyle. 911 was a false flag operation committed by the components of the US State.

The US has killed nearly 6 million people to allow you your standard of living. You have no sense of political economy and the consequences of your happiness

[WiseApe7]

well its an interesting opinion you hold there, its just a shame for you thats its utter bullshit.

9/11 really as nothing whatsoever to do with what is being discussed here, and i think you'll find it is you who is the parasite - leeching off of the tragedy of the 9/11 attacks just so you can snatch some vague feeling of superiority over other people by believing that you know something we don't. Get a grip or shut up.

[canaan1967]

@WiseApe7

It would be a "tragedy" not to. Did they suffer for nothing? 911 has everything to do with it. You are able to purchase consumer goods because the US has created an empire by robbing countries of their resources, markets, labor, land and open them up to capital transnational penetration at great cost to the public domain of those countries. 911 was yet another in a long line of black operations committed by the US to further adventurist wars killing hundreds and thousands

[canaan1967]

@WiseApe7

I'm not superior,. I am a victim of capitalism. Capitalism is not progress it is the opposite of democracy.

Architects and Engineers for Truth

Pilots for 911 Truth

dozens of former intelligence officers, Military officers and scholars all know it was a false flag operation. Conspiratorial crimes are an integral part of US state , they are not a deviation from it.

[canaan1967]

@WiseApe7

Correction: Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth

[WiseApe7]

On the 9/11 point i dont think it's worth carrying on discussing it. Your view ultimately depends on how credible you found the NIST report, which i'm assuming you have read. If you have, you have clearly dismissed it so theres nothing i or anyone else could say to change your mind. I'll have a look through the stuff you suggested also.

On the so called 'evil' of capitalism, i'd like to ask you what you think developing nations would be like now without direct foreign investment (cont)

[WiseApe7]

(continued) and suggest a more effective and realistic means of addressing the problem of global poverty.

And i genuinely am interested to read your views so i'll apoligise for my unessecary language earlier.

[WiseApe7]

I find it amusing that my comment is thumbed down 4 times, wheras the comment directly following it (the one agreeing with my point of view...) has three thumbs up!

Goes to show the how short the attention span is of most people watching this that they cant be bothered to read beyond,

"i agree 100% i'm from china..." before immediately thumbing up on that flimsy basis alone.

See the intellectual dishonesty laid bare...

[StuffSwapEvents]

I only wish it was slowed down a bit so I could have more time to read everything.

[StuffSwapEvents]

fantastic!

[blissGurl8]

kudos on the beautiful work!

[jaysteinbourg]

Fuckin ell! Those motion graphics are fucking beautiful. I love the Graphic design work in this video. Its awsome! Good message too by the way.