bush doesn't need to have been the mastermind of 9/11. the people who carried out the attack were officially formed, armed and trained by the US as a terrorist organization in 1979, and chomsky has stated this. the same corporations/politicians who did that in 1979 are the same people backing W. bush. chomsky knows this and has stated that anyone who wants to learn about al qaeda should read Jason Burke.
Is it reasonable to think our Government 'innocently failed' us on 911 when defense spending was PREDICTABLY doubled cos of 911 at a time when everyone was wondering WHY we still had a huge 'Cold War' (size) military?Cos the Cold War had been over for 10 years!It's NOT! What would defense spending be today with no 911?CIA budget without it?Would people support the wars if they were told they were for control of other nations resources (Oil)? or Tolerate the Patriot Act without 911?
@waitew This isn't a game show gullible shill. There's no need to phrase your "answers" in the form of unrelated questions. Just answer the questions - UNLESS YOU'RE AFRAID OF THE TRUTH!
@ctcole77 I'll answer your 1st question.6 minutes after WTC1 was hit (according to the official story of today) They knew of NO other hijacked aircraft to intercept!So,your question is a LIE!But according to the original official story(until at least 9/16/01) those planes weren't scrambled at all cos none were until after the Pentagon strike(9:36),but from 2001-2004 they did know about FL 175 & FL77 Before they hit their targets & scrambled in time to stop both.The times have been changed.
I've read Chomsky for decades. He has an enormous intelligence. But sometimes even the most intelligent people take on some of the most absurd beliefs. Reading Chomsky over time is like taking a grad course in the crafting of clever rhetoric. Obviously, since he is a linguist, and probably the most renowned one ever, crafting rhetoric comes easy for him. But all the crafty linguistic contortions & even logic only lead to bad conclusions if you start with bad premises. Garbage in, garbage out.
CHOMSKY IS CONTROLLED. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. Read the published email correspondence between him and Kevin Barrett regarding arrangements to appear on his radio program. Its a long read but worth it. Chomsky's evasiveness and willful ignorance is overwhelming.
CHOMSKY IS CONTROLLED. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. Read the publish email correspondence between him and Kevin Barrett regarding arrangements to appear on his radio program. Its a long read but worth it. Chomsky's evasiveness and willful ignorance is overwhelming.
If anybody with half a brain(debunkers excluded, there 50% sheep)listens closely to how he talks in this HE KNOWS. You think his zionist as* will turn on his but* buddy Silverstein?
3 QUESTIONS 911 TRUTHERS DON'T WANT YOU TO ASK THEM:
If NORAD was told to “stand down” how do you explain F-15 fighters ordered to intercept the high-jacked planes 6 minutes after WTC 1 was hit?
How can Dick Cheney order NORAD to “stand down” if he was never in charge of NORAD?
If WTC 7 was destroyed via controlled demolition, how do you explain firefighters predicting the building's collapse 3 hours before the actual collapse?
@ctcole77 ~ Let's have an HONEST investigation, and find out! Or, we could have a criminal trial. The evidence is there. WTC 7 is the "smoking gun", but there's plenty of evidence for the other aspects of the mass murder.
Regarding WTC 7: There is hard evidence of CD (controlled demolition). As for what the firefighters knew, that's not as important as hard evidence. NIST reports it was "office fires". It was not office fires, it was CD, and this can be proven in court.
@ctcole77 Exactly thats why its so suspicious!!!! Why would the biggest super power in the world send one plane 6 mins late? Cheney was never in charge of NORAD which makes it worse and finally the fact that people new it was coming down proves they had inside info. How are you proving truthers wrong exactly?
@ctcole77 Exactly thats why its so suspicious!!!! Why would the biggest super power in the world send one plane 6 mins late? Cheney was never in charge of NORAD which makes it worse and finally the fact that people new it was coming down proves they had inside info. How are you proving truthers wrong exactly?
@ctcole77 1.How do you explain both sets of fighters (Otis & Langley) were set out over the ocean AWAY from the 'attacking' aircraft? 2.How can you explain that no shoot down order was issued until after the last airliner (93) had crashed,that NEADS commander Col. Marr refused to relay the order to the fighter pilots & that the pilots say they NEVER any time that day got a shoot down order?
3.Why did they say WTC7 was going to "blow up"?How did they know when within a few minutes?
@ctcole77 "If NORAD was told to “stand down” how do you explain F-15 fighters ordered to intercept the high-jacked planes 6 minutes after WTC 1 was hit?"[Quote] PLANES?Really?6 minutes after WTC1 was struck (8:46) (ie at 8:53am) exactly what hijacked planes were they aware of that they were ordered to intercept? Answer that! I challenge you!
@SvenSteffens1987 I fully agree and if he's not do a wiki on him. He's 100% pure JEW! That there completely disqualifies him from any discussion on this subject.
@skuterixas91 Why has there been only one video of the pentagon released to the public? You think him not being a jew matters? When the fuc*stick is friends with Silverstein..I bet you didn't know that did you fuc*head! Study like I have you as*hole before you spout off..You think I haven't did hours upon hours of research before I came to my conclusion? If your watching his zionist rhetoric then you feel it too!
Islamist statistic and facts the media doesn't tel--- 1:Statistics Islamist attacks in Nov 2011 **Dead=685 **Critical injured=1087. **Countries=23 **Religions=5. **Jihad Attacks=151 ------ Worldwide dead per year: **2011=8198 and 1 more month to count **2010=9175 ---- Detailed database is available.Google search:thereligionofpeace ---- 2:The leading parties in the Arab countries and Iran don’t include in their agenda the demand to end the Islamist ideology using terror tactics
@historypoliticsbb Yeah, it sucks doesn't it - but they keep getting away with it. I suppose that's why they thought they could get away with 911 - they're like an out of control serial killer who's starting to get sloppy . What next a dirty bomb? A chemical attack? At least the conspiracy community might have made them think twice. Would the public buy it again?
@32peartree TBH it doesn't really matter anymore whether or not the public buys it. The military/CIA/FBI are so closely interlinked in the US and so powerful that they really can do anything they want now. The main purpose of 9/11 domestically was to pass the Patriot Act. The military hold drills occupying US towns and cities, especially in Texas. The global elites who control Washington have reached their endgame. The mass media doesn't cover dissent as the OWS protests have shown. It's over.
@historypoliticsbb I don't know about that - I've seen plenty of media coverage of OWS albeit negative. But I wouldn't give up on democracy just yet - perhaps that's what they want us to do - The people of syria are dying for the freedoms we still enjoy - we should stop this anarchist nonsense and try to save our democracy - think of all the parties out there you could canvas for social democrat, socialist, green, liberal even communist - there are more than just two flavors of ice-cream
@32peartree Syria is about overthrowing a government which does not completely acquiesce to globalist policy - it has a state run central bank (crucial) and as a result runs its own economy. This situation is like Libya under Gaddafi - not acceptable to the global banking/corporate elites who want total control of every economy in the world (see Iran and North Korea as well). And what exactly does our 'democracy' consist of? Putting a cross in a box on a piece of paper once every 5 years. And
@32peartree (cont.) that's it. Coverage of the bloodshed of countries we've 'liberated' is sparse and yet we always get shown Iraqis and Afghans walking out of polling stations - because they've got democracy! 'Democracy' is nothing but a propaganda term in our society. We are given an illusion of choice but that's it. Any politician who strays outside of what is expected is left as a backbencher, demonised or worse. The Bank of England controls UK economic policy - it's a private corporation.
@historypoliticsbb I totally agree - but all I'm saying is- nihilism plays into their hands.Democracy was a joke in the 19th Century only people with property could vote excluding 80% of the population but our forebears didn't say what's the point - they reformed it. Its obvious now the media controls the masses - so its imperative we get control over a major net work - this can be done quite easily - if these brave young protesters change their tactics and target the media networks.
@32peartree It often makes me laugh when anarchists try to smash up a bank - when the greatest tool of modern slavery is a matter feet away filming them. The BBC is paid for by the license fee - we are essentially paying to be propagandized - The governor of the BBC should be elected by the people - not hand picked by the establishment - we should start a campaign of civil disobedience to demand an election to be held for who runs this essential service
@32peartree It's not nihilism to acknowledge that, even with the (intentional) inefficiencies of the current system, there's enough food to feed everyone 3,000 calories a day, and with the astonishing advances in technology it's unecessary to have some people work 8-12 hrs/day, 5-7 days/week while billions are unemployed and thus live in poverty. In the 1960s/70s people were taught in school that there would be more leisure time because wouldn't have to spend much time performing manual tasks.
@32peartree (cont.) What they failed to factor in was the need for profit in the capitalist system. I would alter your analysis of the banks and media - the greatest propaganda tool for modern slavery is the television, while the system of slavery is the monetary system run by the central banks. No one under the age of 25 buys the newspapers anymore, and the internet is fairly unregulated so most get their news from a variety of sources. Even if we closed down the corporate media, the elites
@historypoliticsbb You are now out of the matrix of media manipulations - so it's hard for you to see things from joe six pack's pov. The future battles are not going to be fought on the streets - protests are now pointless spectacles which the media use to underscore their phony democracy. As Jean Baudrillard contests we are now existing in a viral, virtual hyper reality were real events are sucked up into vast simulacrum. Its this within hyper reality were the new class war will be fought.
@32peartree In large part, the illusion of democracy is over, if 'joe six pack' (working class I presume?) believed we lived in a true democracy he wouldn't be on streets of London protesting. As long as the internet remains unregulated, the information war can be won, and vast strides are being made as demonstrated by the ever decreasing voting numbers for the mainstream parties. But on its own victory within the hyperreality is meaningless if, in reality, the bankers still control the monetary
@32peartree (cont.) system, and the monetary system itself is still the active means of exchange. Power thus, in reality, still remains with those who control the monetary system, and everything that flows from that, the control of politicians, the army, police, intelligence services etc. And surely you can see that bringing up 'obsession' and 'anti-semitism' is precisely what the global elite intends when someone tries to discuss the monetary system. It is pop psychology and name-calling
@historypoliticsbb but I what should we do about the banks - probably nationalizing them would be an option - bringing them back under democratic control and printing currency without creating a deficit. But you'd create inflation and the rich would moan that it was a silent tax. Moreover, it wouldn't stop profiteering by the rest of the corporations. China doesn't float its currency or employ fractional reserve banking - but its elite still exploits its people horribly.
@32peartree A lot of people have been arrested, beaten even killed by the police (although it never makes the news) in the UK and US so, I know what you mean, but we shouldn't denigrate these brave people. And please don't use the word 'conspiracy' - it's simply a smear like 'kulak' 'communist' 'rascist' etc. (they once had meanings). I think you've implied again that I may be of the 'right'. I am not. I refuse to play the 'left-right' game in this theme park. Anyone who does is living firmly
@32peartree (cont.) in hyperreality, playing around with these simulacra. It's like playing the 'Jews vs. Christians' game, or the 'Black vs. Whites' or the 'Working class vs. Bourgeouisie' (yes Marx was firmly engrained in the system). Divide and Rule. Order out of Chaos. Anything to distract people from who's really in charge. I believe in abolishing the monetary system - abolish banks, abolish money, all of it. Socialism is, in reality, simply state-centralised capitalism. Whoever controls
@32peartree (cont.) the monetary system controls the state. It's no different under socialism except they do away with the whole 'democracy' and 'left vs. right' charade. That's why it's so confusing for people. Marx simply got the working class to fight the middle class, the elites remained in control. We need to move to a Resource-based economy. Like I explained in my 6th (!) post we have more than enough resources to give everyone on earth a good standard of living. People could work
@32peartree (cont.) 5 hours a day, 4 days a week. Maybe more, maybe less. Perhaps people could work full-time 10 year careers. These details would evolve. Technology is so advanced, that's why so many are unemployed, but the problem is people need money to survive. So do away with money, divide work equally to continue progress, everyone is given the appropriate resources for good standard of living. No money = no rich, no poor, it would be almost like returning to tribal times living in
@historypoliticsbb Baudrillard will be like the Marx of the 21st Century - he will give us new strategies to subvert the simulacrum. Because the new political conflicts in a western sense will be fought on the battleground of the screen - the politicians already realize this - that's why they are spending a fortune on PR consultants and spin doctors . The spin doctors are not there to manage the public image they are there to create the media narrative
@32peartree The media might seem like a trivial matter compared with the stuff you talk about - but it isn't - the indoctrinated masses are under its spell - just like religion - and that lasted for the best part of 2000 years. There is a worship of the screen almost akin to icons or rosary beads. Everyone caries around their little screen even though its the symbol of their slavery. Perhaps their should be a new iconoclasm to destroy the screen. Otherwise I can't see anything changing.
@32peartree (cont.) communes where everyone is provided for except with 21st century living standards. In terms of steps to get there. 1) Nationalise the central banks (very difficult because you get overthrown like Gaddafi, Assad etc.). 2) Nationalise all other banks. 3) Abolish all money. The main sticking point is that this really requires a revolution in the USA which is the vehicle the elites use to conquer/overthrow other governments. These steps are clear and tangible. The global elites
@historypoliticsbb - he divided events into strong and weak categories - ows is a weak event - not as you experience it in reality - but through its mass media simulation. You can't ignore hyper reality because its now more important than what's happening in real time - the news event is the real event so to speak. So taking to the public square is ultimately ineffective because the public sphere now exists inside television.
@32peartree (cont.) never began with a full plan, neither did the inventor of the automobile or anything else for that matter, so I just want to pre-empt that common 'Where's your full plan?' chestnut in case it appears, please don't take offence :)
@historypoliticsbb I have some sympathy with what you anarchists are saying but I find it a little utopian to say the least - but never the less the young should be utopian - it's their political role. As for the brave people protesting - I agree they are making enormous sacrifices but I just think in our digital age there's got to be a cleverer way of beating the system - perhaps 'anonymous' will be the way of the future. As for them getting hurt - Baudrillard talked about this -
@32peartree I never talk about utopia. You never get there. And everyone's definition of it is different - your vision will be very different from mine. You could argue that Tony Blair's vision of 'Freedom' and 'Democracy' is utopian at a superficial level. We should aim for absolute justice. Human nature is not ultra-competitive and socially Darwinistic as we've been taught - this is simply the result of our social conditioning and environment. The idea that humans have to consistently be at
@32peartree (cont.) war, and in competition is of course fed to us through education and the mass media by the very people who benefit from these things. For most of human history we lived in communes of 50 to 150 people. There was very little hierarchy certainly nothing comparable to 'rich' and 'poor'. We've ended up in the ridiculous positoin of Merkel telling us that the Euro can't break up because its prevented WWII - she's literally set the bar as low as it could possibly go. If we accept
@historypoliticsbb "For most of human history we lived in communes of 50 to 150 people."
Here's the ontological fact of human history that must be faced. Once the density of human populations increases beyond these small communities of which you speak, then power will go somewhere. Absent an institution like the modern nation state, power goes into the hands of warlords and gifted psychopaths. The M.N.S. is no ideal, but remains essential for our decent impulses to have struggling chance.
@GenSButler Chomsky offers vague generic notions about systems of power and authority being inherently bad, but fails to let you in on his common ground with finance oligarchs and the central banking system over which they preside: both want a weaker nation state. Chomsky spins it by presenting idealistic notions about a U.N. unfettered by US co-opting, a loose global federation of various people's, but behind the curtain is the real power which is finance capital.
@GenSButler Yeah that's what I spent 15 posts saying - the monetary system is a form of slavery, those in charge of it (the central banks' anonymous board members) are the slave masters. The purpose of WWI was the League of Nations, it failed so they initiated WWII and got the UN. A governing world body is vital if you're going to control the world economy. The idea that it is a moral agent is absurd as the UN resolution for a 'no-fly zone' in Libya showed, or its resolutions on Afghanistan.
@historypoliticsbb So let me get this straight - ww1 was deliberately engineered to set up the LGE of nations - I think some of this stuff is getting out of control. I mean i'm no fan of the financial elite but you ascribing them with god- like powers.
@32peartree They're certainly not god-like the L of N was an utter failure, and they have setbacks like Chavez in Venezuela, Morales in Bolivia, Brazil refusing to take toxic assets in the form of derivatives (hence their economy is stronger than most), Argentina simply refusing to pay debt, the NHS etc. I don't have the time to explain WWI, simply that the orthodox histories of it are, like 9/11, extremely selective and full of non-sequiters. Check out Theodore Herzl's speech from the Sixth
@32peartree (cont.) Zionist Congress in Switzerland 1903. Truly shocking stuff. No sensible person could possibly buy Nationalism + Arms race = WWI as I was taught in school. The reasons for Britain's involvement, and that of the US or anybody else for that matter never did seem convincing. I recommend you do your own research, Niall Ferguson's 'Pity of War' is actually pretty helpful.
@32peartree I know this stuff is absolutely mind-blowing, but I'm obliged to say it, even if it makes me look mad. After all, Galileo and all that right? Just keep this in mind - what in your life can you do without money? Think about it. Virtually nothing, they even tax exhaling (CO2).
@historypoliticsbb I don't go in for Niall Ferguson -I think he's a old Tory boy at heart. However, I admit there does seem to be a secret push toward globalization that has its roots in classical liberalism. But this is what Conrad would call the big idea like Christianity, Imperialism or communism. Below the big idea is some good old fashioned vested interest. Liberal Capitalism would exist regardless of a financial conspiracy because there are gargantuan profits to made from global trade.
@historypoliticsbb there are conflicts between domestic capital and international capital - international capital will always win because there are more profits to be made from trading with the world than just trading within your own market. These conflicts between capitalists - generally pass for what we call democracy - the masses are allowed to choose a party from either camp. Although recently the globalized liberals have gone into overdrive and trounced their opponent.
@historypoliticsbb Perhaps there is a grand conspiracy but I get the feeling the world would be little different without it. The likes of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs require free trade - cheap labor costs - and low inflation which is by and large is what the politicians and the Fed give them - why? because the bankers and the politicians also own shares in the same corporations - so they're all juiced in together. This is what Adam Smith calls the hidden hand - which seems like a vast conspiracy.
@32peartree If only Ferguson was just a 'Tory boy' lol, he's a leading intellectual for the global elite - the official biographer of the Rothschilds and Kissinger. Hobsbawm is an unrepentant Stalinist. So what? If you only read authors with whom you agree you severely limit your ability to assimilate information. Judge books on their own merits, while keeping in mind the prejudices of the author. 'The Pity of War' is an excellent book on WWI I don't know of a better one, I recommend reading it.
@32peartree (cont.) With regards to labor costs, free trade, inflation etc. these are capitalist propaganda terms and simulacra. 'Free trade'? We have nothing of the kind. It's a propaganda term like 'Democracy' and 'Freedom'. The giant corps and banks do whatever they want, the rest are enslaved with taxes, rents, regulations, laws etc. The US has huge tariffs on foreign steel and food imports. What does inflation have to do with inventing an Ipod? Nothing. Inflation is a method of controlling
@historypoliticsbb the rich don't like inflation - naturally they like a safe stable currency, If inflation goes up they see it has a hidden tax - if a billion dollars loses its value overnight - you're half has rich. I know what you're saying about Ferguson - he's astute - but beneath the effete exterior everything he says is underpinned with his monetarist bias - so I generally don't trust him - what is it Henry Ford said about history?
@32peartree No. Inflation is bad for the poor and middle classes (ie. the 99%) because food is more expensive, drink is more expensive, petrol, transport etc. life becomes more difficult - look at Peru where the price of bread increased 41 times overnight in 1990 thanks to the IMF - who suffered most? The rich? No. Inflation means people's savings in the bank become worthless - however small those savings are. The global elite have their wealth in hard assets - property, land, commodities, gold
@32peartree (cont.) silver, real estate- things of real and lasting value. Their money is 'safe havens' like Switzerland. That's why they willingly crash the economy and the value of their assets skyrocket - just look at gold and silver and commodities prices right now. Then as people and governments stuggle on their payments, the banks take people's houses, airports, water, hospitals, roads, coal mines, oil fields... the endgame is to take everything. You're wrong on inflation, no disrespect :)
@historypoliticsbb all what you say is true about the bankers but also of the rich more generally - like the difference between the good poor and bad poor, people like to make distinctions between the good rich and the bad rich. Big corporations make hostile takeovers, asset strip, price fix to take out a competitor - Murdoch, Turner, Gates also put their money in Switzerland. The Bankers get the most stick because they're are offering the service of usury which is of course a sin.
@historypoliticsbb so this hatred of bankers goes very deep in Western culture - in bad times - the banks are always the scapegoats - and the rest of the rich who invested in them are happy for them to take the brunt of the hatred. This is not to excuse what the banks did - but I didn't hear many people complaining at the time. Of course, the bankers are greedy - but that's like criticizing a prostitute for being promiscuous. But you still haven't told me how the banks engineered ww1
@32peartree (cont.) the population through manipulation of the monetary system. Was Newton dependent on inflation? Was Einstein? Was Mozart? The idea we can't create things without the monetary system is propaganda like saying 'We have to put a no-fly zone over Benghazi to prevent genocide' (UN resolution 1973). It bares no resemblance to reality. Just like what we call capitalism bares no resemblance to what's set out in 'Wealth of Nations'. None at all.
@GenSButler The UN has done more than any governing body outside the US Congress to legitimise mass-murder in the past 60 years. It is a vehicle the global elite use for world domination. Chomsky's hands are tied, as this video shows, by the fact he is paid by MIT. I agree that a fully sovereign MNS is the probably the best form of governance that we have come up with so far, as it has the capability to distribute resources evenly.
@32peartree (cont.) simply accept 'avoiding genocidal world war' as success then we truly are doomed. Just because in 1800 it was impossible to move at the speed of sound or fly at 3,000 feet, didn't mean it was irrational/utopian to claim these things were possible. Just because we havent been able to define absolute justice doesn't mean we should deny it's existence and stop trying to reach it.
@32peartree (cont.) ,simply a way of dodging discussion. It's understandable that this is the reaction people get however when they discuss the monetary system. It is literally never discussed in the corporate mass media, and most independent media outlets simply don't know about or understand the monetary system anyway. It is a complete shock to the system when discussed. People find it easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of money. My critique of your position on how the war can
@historypoliticsbb In regards to the banking conspiracy - there was a time before the FED and it was called the 19th Century - and it was hardly a bed of roses. I'm no fan of the FED but getting rid of it wouldn't be some magic wand - capitalism has always boomed and bust - its the nature of the beast. The right like to believe there was purer less corrupt form of capitalism once upon a time - but this is a myth - the rich have always rigged the market.
@32peartree (cont.)be won is the similar to Merrin’s critique of Baudrillard. Reality does still exist, and is where wars are won. As Mao said, Revolution is not a Dinner party. Real resistance always involves fists, guns and blood. Tweeting can help, but that’s it.
@historypoliticsbb In all due respect, the West is now too rich to have a traditional revolution - although the poor are still with us - they are now in the minority - this is not the hungry 30s. The real sharp end of capitalism is in the third world that's why we're seeing all these popular insurrections. In truth, what's happening in Wall Street is a pale imitation - or rather a simulation. Its almost like we feel we have to take part to keep up the tradition.
@32peartree (cont.) BTW I agree that the banks and corps prefer 'democracy' and 'freedom' to dictatorship. However, they behind these simulacra, they have been laying the foundations for dictatorship. With internet surveillance, CCTV, mobile phone tracking, DNA databases etc. and finally the RFID chip (when they get round to it) they are close to reaching a position of power against which effective resistance may be close to impossible.
@32peartree (cont.) would simply revert to more open methods of coercion just as they do when there are protests. The 1,000 electricians and 10-15,000 students on 9 Nov. had seen through the propaganda and were faced with 4,000 police with horses, riot gear and rubber bullets. There were thousands of police protecting the banks in the City, nowhere near the protesters. Beating the media is the easy part. The real battle is with the bankers, CEOS and their political puppets themselves.
@historypoliticsbb - if the veil of the corporate media lifted and they reverted to pure power - this, paradoxically, would be a victory for democracy - the illusion would be over. Dictatorships will always crumble no matter how draconian - this is why the banks and the corps don't desire dictatorship - the cat would be out of the bag - instead they prefer to fool the masses with freedom under brainwashing.
@historypoliticsbb this obsession with the banks I find dangerous - it seems a thinly veiled form of anti-semitism from the right - 'if it wasn't for the those jewboy bankers Capitalism would work just fine' banking is only a part of the problem - the military industrial complex, big oil, media moguls like Ted Turner, Murdoch, Forbes - all the retail giants, dot com tycoons - the richest most powerful people in the world are not Bankers.
@32peartree I often found the charges of anti-semitism a compelling reason not to look into the control of society through the issuance of currency. Now that I have taken some time to study the nature of finance capital, the history of the Federal Reserve, etc... I am inclined to believe that charges of anti-semitism often work in favor of finance oligarchs much the way that the term "conspiracy theory" can prompt an a priori dismissal of a line of reasoning about 911 or JFK.
@historypoliticsbb Such civil disobedience could take the form of disrupting sporting events - reality TV shows- vox pops - etc - this is the weak underbelly of the beast. They need interactivity with the public in order to deceive them. The Media is the modern religion - the corporations are the modern aristocracy - like Martin Luther we have to nail our petition to the church door.
Not to mention the anarchist use of the jolly roger, the fact that anarchists assassinated President McKinley and Franz Ferdinand and burnt down the Reichstag. And why does the mainstream news keep bombarding us with images of Anarchists in wall street and london - when other groups are ignored. Maybe this is why Shelly called his poem - The Masque of Anarchy.
Its starting to make sense - anarchy in all its forms is the ideology of NWO not communism and fascism has the right like to suggest. The Illuminati were the progenitors of Anarchism. Marx expelled Bukunin for belonging to a secret organisation. The Great Seal equates to A inside the circle symbol. Both Neo Conservatism and Neo Liberalism are vulgar anarchist concepts. Anarchists within the Young Hegelians formed the skull and bones club. Anarchists use the agenda of terror and assassination.
@32peartree I don't think that anarchy is the ideology of the NWO, but I do think that the finance oligarchs are happy to use anarchy as an ideological front for wrecking movements. In this regard, is anarchy much different from Al-CIA-da? Drawing dissent into dysfunctional extremist postures is now a well practiced trick.
@GenSButler The finance oligarchs are anarchists - they are just the rich variety. Rolling back the state, minimal taxation, free trade are not just economic gambits - they have deep ideological roots. They stem from profound hatred of the state which can be traced back to Germany and the Rosicrucians. The anarchists/ neo liberal/neo conservatives and paleo conservatives all see the state has the root of all evil. Which might originate from the persecution of the KT - but that's just conjecture
Any respect I had for Chomsky for his intellectual achievements just went out he window. He is a treasonous, poisoned, angry man. What happened in his life that made him so angry?
Terrorists have no religion, no culture, and no nation, though they wear those as costumes to incriminate others. They have loyalty only to their own egos.
The 9/11 assault was an attack against Islam. If you don't believe that, look at the results.
To be good citizens, we must follow love and reason in protecting America.
Our government is a collection of public servants. We must protect our American servants from the few among them who would poison the government with dark intentions and criminal actions.
I love our government. The vast majority of our public servants have good intentions. But it only takes a few to ruin it for the many. We need to protect the many from the crimes of those few.
@vladdrac88 Well, he seems like a kindly old man, but he is poisoning people (especially the easily influenced college-age students where he works) into thinking the USA is somehow the epitome of evil. Unless you do your homework, you might agree with him. Do yourself a favor and do your homework. If after you still agree with Chomsky, please go live in Sweden - or one of the many other countries he lauds over the USA as superior - and live the reality of his preaching. He doesn't...
@beeroosterm It is not the USA which is the epitome of evil, and he does not say that. He blames those who at the moment control US "Public Opinion". Some who control US public opinion are not even really Americans. One of FOX's major share holders is a member of the Gulf Oil aristocracy. I've been doing my homework for half a century. At the moment, the quality of life in America is much damaged by the fantastic sums of money we have wasted on war to protect private interests control of oil
@vladdrac88 Chomsky DOES blame the U.S. and denounces the nation state as just another authoritarian form. He ignores the power of the modern nation state to act as a firewall against the worst excesses of the finance oligarchy. And, the institutions that are purely the dominion of the finance oligarchy? The CFR? The Federal Reserve? Well, people who talk about that stuff are "conspiracy theorists" wasting their time. Some activist!
@GenSButler You picked General Butler for you're avatar. He picks 'banksters' as malefactors in his writings. Was Andrew Jackson a conspiracy theorist?. I agree with you in that government should be the firewall between the people and the financial oligarchs, but it seems to me and many others that the government has failed in that respect. There is a great national discussion about the oligarchs purchase of political power in the legislature. Are these people all crackpots?.
@GenSButler You know perfectly well what I mean unless somehow you took only physical sciences and no liberal arts courses. Perhaps you attended Hillsdale College, in which case communication may prove impossible.
@vladdrac88 "You know perfectly well what I mean..."
No, I really don't know what you mean. You're asking about four different things at once. You are all over the map. Please hone your inquiry to me and ask again. There's no need to be so defensive.
Chomsky and the rest of those anti-establishment pundits aren't morons so they know it was an inside job. They're all probably being threatened. They don't want their grandchildren to start having "Accidents".
Anyone 40+ who grew up being told we needed a huge military to fight Communism (fighting Communism was a way of life,millions of Jobs) & who grew up with the gas shortage of the '70's,driving 55,hating Arabs cos they had us by the shorts,should see just how conveniently the War on Terror replace$ the Cold War & how conveniently it has allowed us to invade the Middle East & use our sole superpower status.If you see & say nothing then blood's on your hands.911=inside job
I wonder why it is that the following post has twice been flagged as spam:
To Big Mike: re: "I am part of the conspiracy. Spooky!"
Part of the conspiracy or not, you are part of the problem. If you believe what you say, that this is a distraction, then stop making enemies with a group of people who are, person for person, against the war. As long as you're doing that, no one is going to trust you and most will recognize your obvious hypocrisy.
It would be great if Chomsky came to believe that it was a conspiracy.He is such a big name.If 9/11 was an inside job it is vital for the world to realize it.Because it was the beginning of the "war on terror" which is no concrete enemy and is continual.The perfect war! If 9/11 was in inside job than this War On Terror is a hoax.Its agenda entirely different from what it states
I think eventually Chomsky will admit the veracity of the 9/11 conspiracy theories.You cant dispel so many smoking guns
@iankyoko If there was any real evidence for it Noam Chomsky wouldn't hesitate to back it. He's made a career of going against the grain and calling the government on its evil. The fact that he is NOT supportive of these theories should tell you something. A smart guy like Noam Chomsky who is a lifelong opponent of governments isn't convinced by your so-called "smoking guns". Maybe you ought to take a second look at why you believe what it is you believe.
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ I'll admit that Chomsky probably has 50 IQ points on me, but...based on what he said in parts 1 and 2 of this video, I can confidently state that Chomsky is a complete IDIOT! His argument is idiotic. Then, "...And even if it were true, who cares?"
Hey, Chomsky: F*** you! I care and millions of others care. The evidence is there in droves, you idiot! (Chomsky)
@ucancallmeOh His arguments make sense. The experts overwhelmingly reject an explosives-based conspiracy, the logistics of rigging three huge buildings for demolition without being detected is basically impossible, and a conspiracy that vast would require many, many people and would certainly have leaked by now. It's really pretty obvious stuff.
The "who cares?" part you need to listen to in context. He's saying this is a small-scale event in the global scale of things. 9/11 isn't that important
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ If you check out the video I helped make, "An Animated Discussion about 9/11" including the Resources Page at the end, there are pertinent facts to address these issues.
Nothing can ever excuse the "Who cares?" statement. It is inhuman.
@ucancallmeOh Do you have any idea how many deaths the US is in some way responsible for around the world, every day? Or if not responsible for, could easily prevent? You really ought to read some of what Chomsky has written. The idea that 3000 Americans dying is this Earth-shattering tragedy is laughable when you look at the scale of death and suffering the US instigates or shrugs its shoulders at. Even amongst its own people, for lack of basic human rights like universal health care.
@ucancallmeOh So yeah, as Chomsky said, who cares? It's only a big deal because the USA isn't used to having the deaths it's responsible for so visible. It prefers to watch its death on the sands in the Middle East, or in the gutters of its streets. Not amidst its big, phallic landmarks of greed and imperialism.
@ucancallmeOh Go watch the Republican Primary debates. People cheered loudest of all when mention was made of how many people Perry executed in Texas. When Ron Paul was asked who should pay for the health care of someone without insurance, and was asked in jest if they should "let him die" instead, audience members clapped and shouted "yes!".
The USA is full of tragedies much worse than 9/11 which happen every day, and it commits crimes worse than 9/11 upon others to the cheers of its citizens.
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ I'm not taking your bait. I'm not going to change the subject. 9/11 was an inside job. The evidence is overwhelming in this regard. This is the topic. Chomsky doesn't care; evidently you don't care, Big Mike, but I care and I am pretty sure that many thousands if not millions of other people care. We need an international court to provide justice so that we can end the wars and occupations.
@ucancallmeOh This isn't bait, it's exactly what Chomsky meant when he said "who cares". If you think 3000 people dying in an attack is a big deal, why don't you look around you for a change? Policies the US government INTENTIONALLY pushes forward routinely lead to the deaths of its own citizens in a far greater magnitude than 9/11. And yet you act as if the government being behind a measly 3000 deaths would be a big deal. Are you really so ignorant of your own government and its policies?
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ 3,000 deaths will never be "measly" to me. There have been many more deaths and more suffering as a consequence of 9/11, and there have been other deaths and sufferring that are not directly linked with 9/11, but that doesn't change the fact that the World Trade Center buildings (the twin towers and Bldg 7) were brought down by explosives, and all the other evidence of a false flag operation and cover-up. Let's have the international court case, and let the chips fall...
@ucancallmeOh You're surrounded by death and suffering that is purposefully instigated by your own government, and yet you chase ghosts and talk about international courts for something as uncertain as 9/11 being a conspiracy. If you actually gave a shit about your own countrymen being killed, you wouldn't have any time in the day for something like this 9/11 business to occupy your thoughts.
Unless it's of the 9/11 emergency workers your government refuses to provide health care for, that is.
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ There's no point discussing Chomsky's statements on 911 with someone who will not watch the definitive answer to the WTC building collapses: AE911truth(dot)org. There's a 15 min. video. But you just wanna do the old razzle dazzle re-direction bit. I'm done with this discussion with you (at least until you watch that video with an open mind).
@ucancallmeOh I've seen all that shit before. I've seen the Loose Change crap, I've seen the AE911Truth crap, I've seen the general practitioner Jeff King pass himself off as an "MIT engineer" and talk to people as if he knows something, I've seen it all.
But go ahead, pretend like 9/11 is the biggest scandal facing the US, that its casualties are unprecedented. Be blind to the real crimes and the real tragedies happening all around you while you chase your own tail.
@ucancallmeOh People who devote significant amounts of energy to 9/11 debunking, and then claim that the topic is a distraction... their own actions elude credibility. The press for 9/11 truth helped neutralize the push for war against Iran in 2006, and has more generally contributed to eroding the base of support for the war and other egregious policies. It is foolish to challenge the current wars without challenging the unsubstantiated premise on which it rests.
@BigMikeMcBastard Thanks for the tip on the Eagar paper. He was an eagar beaver. He gets the prize for promptness. Very interesting, but it, like the NIST report doesn't consider the collapse of building 7 and the molten metal in the rubble reported by NASA satellites and workers on the ground months afterwards.. I appreciate the brilliant Noam Chomsky. I was only angered by his cavalier, "Who cares?" when the prevailing understanding of the event led to 2 wars and a million dead.
@dfesteelguitar The molten metal has been addressed. The rubble burned hot enough in the days after the collapse that workers and reporters both commented on the rivers of molten metal at the base of the structures.
The collapse of WTC 7 is a non-issue. Firefighters heard it groaning hours before the collapse and watched as it collapsed later in the day. No one died because they knew it was coming. I'm not sure what your theory of choice is on its collapse, but explosives would not be possible.
@BigMikeMcBastard Building 7 exhibited all the characteristics of classic controlled demolition. Pulverized building materials were ejected horizontally at 160 to 200 mph many floors below the falling top floors. They could only have been pulverized and ejected at that speed through the use of explosives. 13 top defenders of the official conspiracy theory were invited to debate AE911Truth. Eagar and 11 others declined. I do appreciate your civility; it's so easy to lose tempers about this.
@dfesteelguitar I imagine if debris were ejected at that speeds people outside the collapse zone would have likely been killed, as the area was swarming with workers and onlookers. Nobody was either hurt nor made mention of any such high-speed debris. There was also no explosion heard, and no windows were blown outward as they would've been if explosives were used.
There's also the rather large question of how or why explosives would have been used at all. The former, especially, is a big one.
@BigMikeMcBastard You can see the squibs on quite a few videos. Danny Ochenko, the top controlled demolition guy in Holland watched the videos and was sure it was controlled demolition.
@dfesteelguitar Odd, Google has never heard of this "Danny Ochenko". And if watching the video were enough to make it a "sure" thing that it's a controlled demolition you wouldn't have had to look to mysterious figures in Europe for assurances that it was. There are no doubt many thousands of people who are in the controlled demolition business who watched those videos and came to a different conclusion.
Moreover, no explosions heard, no windows blown out, took almost a minute to collapse.
@BigMikeMcBastard Sorry for the wild goose chase, Mike! My bad. Danny Jawenko is the name. I was way off. For a more complete list try googling "People with demolition expertise questioning 9/11." A New Yorker actually tops the list. Building 7 fell at near free-fall speed with a lot of eyewitness reports of explosions. Everyone should watch 9/11 Blueprint For Truth by AE911Truth.
@dfesteelguitar There are videos of it collapsing on YouTube. It collapses in sections and not at freefall speed. I'm not sure why you need "a lot of eyewitness reports of explosions" when you can see it fall without explosions, not at freefall speed, without windows blowing outward from a blast, etc. And, again, firefighters knew it was going to fall and that's why nobody was hurt.
@BigMikeMcBastard "WTC7 in Freefall: No Longer Controversial" is a very informative video on youtube. The reason we need eyewitnesses is because they're there. They exist. If I'm investigating a murder and there are eyewitnesses, I want to hear what they have to say. I'm not going to say, "Send em home. We don't need em. FEMA and NIST already told us what happened."
@dfesteelguitar You need to not watch videos so much and instead try and focus on actual written materials. The conspiracy people tend to use videos, everyone else tends to use written reports. In this case, there are a variety of write-ups about the physics behind the collapses specifically related to whether they were freefall or not. In short, they weren't, but for a lark you can read what Frank Greening, a fellow Canadian, wrote on it.
I am not going to watch yet another video on this.
@BigMikeMcBastard Greening was very clear in his writing that he has nothing more than a hypothesis that must be verified by actual tests in the real world. Please point me to the tests in the real world. Otherwise, by his own account, we have no verification.
@nealkassanoff Eyewitnesses in general are fairly useless. On a day as chaotic as that one, even moreso. I tend to go by what the firefighters reported at the time though, as at least there are actual recordings of their activities in a lot of cases. Or they were interviewed very shortly afterward. Other eyewitness testimonies are bound to be conflicting.
@BigMikeMcBastard Wow, you completely and absolutely mischaracterized and/or ignored my point, which is that Greening is very clear in his own writing- "here is what might have happened. someone should test this hypothesis or there is no proof that its true." Greening passes the buck. He draws no conclusions but the need for further research. Period.
@BigMikeMcBastard Again, thanks for the tip. I'll look up Greening, but I must say, Mike, you're obviously very interested in this issue but not interested in eyewitnesses, not even interested in what you're own eyes can tell you. That's why you think it took a minute for 7 to fall. If you'd look you'd see it's less than 10 sec., at least 2 & 1/2 in free fall. That much free-fall means a lot of steel got moved first. Have you read the Steven Jones paper on the red and gray chips?
@dfesteelguitar Steven Jones really overstepped himself in his writings. It's cool to write on what you have expertise on, but him going into that whole schtick involving the geopolitical motives behind the conspiracy he alleges exists and just in general has lack of really being scientific about it all.
Either way, he is in a small minority of people with credentials who allege this stuff to be the work of explosives. There are more qualified people who disagree with his assessment.
@BigMikeMcBastard "Either way, he (Steven Jones) is in a small minority of people with credentials who allege this stuff".
This is a moot point. Scientific credibility is not determined by majority rule. Talk to Galileo about that. Jones points to observable evidence that a fire hypothesis can be ruled out empirical observation and experiments, and that a thermite hypothesis is supported by the same.
@nealkassanoff It's true that science isn't a democracy, but it's important to realize that everything has its detractors. The analogue between the 9/11 conspiracy stuff and creationism challenging evolution is a very good example. People who work in science careers do not always apply scientifically rigorous standards to all of their beliefs. There are qualified biologists who reject evolution, after all, but that doesn't really say anything about evolution as a scientific principle.
Have you found the input data or the peer review on the NIST Final Report on Building 7? Lets see some sound science to back up your belief in the fire hypothesis.
Generally speaking, scientists who evade peer review and conceal the data on which they draw their conclusions receive contempt from their peers, as well they should.
Nonetheless, trying to conjure associations between creationism and 911 truth is a commendably manipulative tactic, if your into manipulation.
@BigMikeMcBastard Evolution has over a hundred years of peer reviewed evidence and is supported by the fossil record. According to a Pew Poll in 2009 (Google it), 97% of scientists believe that humans and animals evolved. 6 of the 10 9/11 commissioners have stated that the 9/11 commissioners doubted the findings, stating that they were obstructed from completing a full investigation. Lifelong experts in terror like Dr. Steve Pieczenik who worked through 4 Presedential administrations (cont)
@EyesDownfield said that he would be willing to testify in Federal courts that his expert analysis is that 9/11 was an inside job. So you have 60% of the 9/11 commissioners saying the investigation was inaccurate and over 1500 architects and engineers who have refuted the idea that the airplanes could have the potential to destroy or warp the steel core of the building. The only unscientific stance is to dogmatically accept this flawed investigation as 100% factual when 6/10 have expressed doubt
@EyesDownfield And despite the mountain of evidence supporting evolution and the scant evidence supporting creationism, creationism still has a major following amongst laypeople in the USA.
Steve Pieczenik is welcome to provide actual evidence that bin Laden was dead before 9/11 and that the entire thing was an inside job.
@ucancallmeOh It's pretty tragic how you people use a single issue like this to decide someone's value. Noam Chomsky is a man who has spent his entire adult life speaking out against the government and trying to expose its tricks and lies. For you to claim he's "nothing" because he doesn't share your love for believing things on scant evidence is absurd.
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ I am a very polite person, generally speaking. But this 'great intellectual' is suggesting that I not believe what a mountain of evidence is showing me, right in front of my eyes. We are talking about alleged treason and mass murder as well as starting wars based on lies...and this man says, "...Even if it were true, who cares?" No, Big Mike, this is unacceptable. Please check out this video "An Animated Discussion about 9/11".
@ucancallmeOh Your jokes regarding Eagar and his paper are fairly laughable themselves. Who are you to judge the quality of such papers? As Chomsky points out, if browsing some opinions on the Internet is enough to qualify someone as an authority on building collapses, why then are there universities which offer actual programs to that end? MIT is one of the foremost engineering schools on the planet, and Eagar a well-regarded expert on the matter. You'd be wise to parrot better opinions.
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ No problema. During the interim, I was trying to remember the name of the MIT professor who is in a you tube video about the collapses...it's Jeff King. If you type in "MIT professor on WTC building collapses" it'll come up. Good stuff.
There is just so much evidence and expert testimony available now...it seems moot to even discuss it. Bring it on in international court. I swear, if I won the lottery, I'd use 90% of it to fund that endeavor.
@ucancallmeOh Jeff King actually isn't an MIT professor. He did an electrical engineering/biology undergrad at MIT, then went to medical school after working for some time as an undergrad engineer, and he's been a physician since.
He doesn't work for MIT, nor has he ever, and his engineering expertise is in the electrical variety and is limited to undergrad level, which means it's worth basically nothing. He's not an authority on the matter.
Google "jeff king mit". "Plaguepuppy" is his own page.
@ucancallmeOh Jeff King actually isn't an MIT professor. He did an electrical engineering/biology undergrad at MIT, then went to medical school after working for some time as an undergrad engineer, and he's been a physician since.
He doesn't work for MIT, nor has he ever, and his engineering expertise is in the electrical variety and is limited to undergrad level, which means it's worth basically nothing. He's not an authority on the matter.
Google "jeff king mit". "Plaguepuppy" is his own page.
bush doesn't need to have been the mastermind of 9/11. the people who carried out the attack were officially formed, armed and trained by the US as a terrorist organization in 1979, and chomsky has stated this. the same corporations/politicians who did that in 1979 are the same people backing W. bush. chomsky knows this and has stated that anyone who wants to learn about al qaeda should read Jason Burke.
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Is it reasonable to think our Government 'innocently failed' us on 911 when defense spending was PREDICTABLY doubled cos of 911 at a time when everyone was wondering WHY we still had a huge 'Cold War' (size) military?Cos the Cold War had been over for 10 years!It's NOT! What would defense spending be today with no 911?CIA budget without it?Would people support the wars if they were told they were for control of other nations resources (Oil)? or Tolerate the Patriot Act without 911?
waitew 1 week ago
@waitew This isn't a game show gullible shill. There's no need to phrase your "answers" in the form of unrelated questions. Just answer the questions - UNLESS YOU'RE AFRAID OF THE TRUTH!
ctcole77 1 week ago
@ctcole77 I see.You can't answer my questions.so,you attack them instead.Ok,got you.
waitew 1 week ago
@ctcole77 I'll answer your 1st question.6 minutes after WTC1 was hit (according to the official story of today) They knew of NO other hijacked aircraft to intercept!So,your question is a LIE!But according to the original official story(until at least 9/16/01) those planes weren't scrambled at all cos none were until after the Pentagon strike(9:36),but from 2001-2004 they did know about FL 175 & FL77 Before they hit their targets & scrambled in time to stop both.The times have been changed.
waitew 1 week ago
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I've read Chomsky for decades. He has an enormous intelligence. But sometimes even the most intelligent people take on some of the most absurd beliefs. Reading Chomsky over time is like taking a grad course in the crafting of clever rhetoric. Obviously, since he is a linguist, and probably the most renowned one ever, crafting rhetoric comes easy for him. But all the crafty linguistic contortions & even logic only lead to bad conclusions if you start with bad premises. Garbage in, garbage out.
fedwatcher9 2 weeks ago
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CHOMSKY IS CONTROLLED. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. Read the published email correspondence between him and Kevin Barrett regarding arrangements to appear on his radio program. Its a long read but worth it. Chomsky's evasiveness and willful ignorance is overwhelming.
google: "Barrett Outs Chomsky"
bassefa1984 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
CHOMSKY IS CONTROLLED. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. Read the publish email correspondence between him and Kevin Barrett regarding arrangements to appear on his radio program. Its a long read but worth it. Chomsky's evasiveness and willful ignorance is overwhelming.
bassefa1984 2 weeks ago
Ron Paul 2012
bassefa1984 2 weeks ago
Please check-out this NEW video re: 9/11:
MLuCj7DBqjc (just cut and paste to YT search box)
9/11: A Case Study of Ponerology
ucancallmeOh 1 month ago
If anybody with half a brain(debunkers excluded, there 50% sheep)listens closely to how he talks in this HE KNOWS. You think his zionist as* will turn on his but* buddy Silverstein?
sixerjones 1 month ago
3 QUESTIONS 911 TRUTHERS DON'T WANT YOU TO ASK THEM:
If NORAD was told to “stand down” how do you explain F-15 fighters ordered to intercept the high-jacked planes 6 minutes after WTC 1 was hit?
How can Dick Cheney order NORAD to “stand down” if he was never in charge of NORAD?
If WTC 7 was destroyed via controlled demolition, how do you explain firefighters predicting the building's collapse 3 hours before the actual collapse?
ctcole77 4 weeks ago
@ctcole77 ~ Let's have an HONEST investigation, and find out! Or, we could have a criminal trial. The evidence is there. WTC 7 is the "smoking gun", but there's plenty of evidence for the other aspects of the mass murder.
Regarding WTC 7: There is hard evidence of CD (controlled demolition). As for what the firefighters knew, that's not as important as hard evidence. NIST reports it was "office fires". It was not office fires, it was CD, and this can be proven in court.
ucancallmeOh 3 weeks ago
@ctcole77 Exactly thats why its so suspicious!!!! Why would the biggest super power in the world send one plane 6 mins late? Cheney was never in charge of NORAD which makes it worse and finally the fact that people new it was coming down proves they had inside info. How are you proving truthers wrong exactly?
MrLettuceguy 3 weeks ago
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@ctcole77 Exactly thats why its so suspicious!!!! Why would the biggest super power in the world send one plane 6 mins late? Cheney was never in charge of NORAD which makes it worse and finally the fact that people new it was coming down proves they had inside info. How are you proving truthers wrong exactly?
MrLettuceguy 3 weeks ago
@ctcole77 1.How do you explain both sets of fighters (Otis & Langley) were set out over the ocean AWAY from the 'attacking' aircraft? 2.How can you explain that no shoot down order was issued until after the last airliner (93) had crashed,that NEADS commander Col. Marr refused to relay the order to the fighter pilots & that the pilots say they NEVER any time that day got a shoot down order?
3.Why did they say WTC7 was going to "blow up"?How did they know when within a few minutes?
waitew 1 week ago
@ctcole77 "If NORAD was told to “stand down” how do you explain F-15 fighters ordered to intercept the high-jacked planes 6 minutes after WTC 1 was hit?"[Quote] PLANES?Really?6 minutes after WTC1 was struck (8:46) (ie at 8:53am) exactly what hijacked planes were they aware of that they were ordered to intercept? Answer that! I challenge you!
waitew 1 week ago
noam chomsky cia operative
SvenSteffens1987 1 month ago
@SvenSteffens1987 I fully agree and if he's not do a wiki on him. He's 100% pure JEW! That there completely disqualifies him from any discussion on this subject.
sixerjones 1 month ago
@sixerjones
wow you are the most ignorant redneck dumbass i've seen in a while. A JEW OMFG HES THE DEVIL.
skuterixas91 1 month ago
@skuterixas91 Why has there been only one video of the pentagon released to the public? You think him not being a jew matters? When the fuc*stick is friends with Silverstein..I bet you didn't know that did you fuc*head! Study like I have you as*hole before you spout off..You think I haven't did hours upon hours of research before I came to my conclusion? If your watching his zionist rhetoric then you feel it too!
sixerjones 1 month ago
Doubters of the Official Story (OS) of 9/11. This video shows that even well-respected intellectuals can be full of BS. Please, think for yourself!
Patriotsquestion911(dot)com
AE911truth(dot)org
book: Debunking 9/11 Debunking, by David Ray Griffin
uDnhBIuNzSU (just cut and paste to YT search box)
Military Officers for 9/11 Truth
All truthers agree on this: The Official Story is filled with lies.
ucancallmeOh 1 month ago
MordechayAriely 1 month ago
Loading explosives on the Lusitania, goading the Japanese and then ignoring Pearl Harbour warnings, Operation Gladio, Radio Free Europe, Operation Mockingbird, Operation Ajax, Operation CHAOS, Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, Tuskegee experiment, COINTELPro, Iraq WMD, Iraq-Al Qaeda connection, Saudi ambassador assasination fraud, Guantanamo Bay, Iran-Contras, Operation Paperclip, Operation MK-Ultra, Operation PHEONIX, Operation PBSuccess... 9/11?
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb Yeah, it sucks doesn't it - but they keep getting away with it. I suppose that's why they thought they could get away with 911 - they're like an out of control serial killer who's starting to get sloppy . What next a dirty bomb? A chemical attack? At least the conspiracy community might have made them think twice. Would the public buy it again?
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree TBH it doesn't really matter anymore whether or not the public buys it. The military/CIA/FBI are so closely interlinked in the US and so powerful that they really can do anything they want now. The main purpose of 9/11 domestically was to pass the Patriot Act. The military hold drills occupying US towns and cities, especially in Texas. The global elites who control Washington have reached their endgame. The mass media doesn't cover dissent as the OWS protests have shown. It's over.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb I don't know about that - I've seen plenty of media coverage of OWS albeit negative. But I wouldn't give up on democracy just yet - perhaps that's what they want us to do - The people of syria are dying for the freedoms we still enjoy - we should stop this anarchist nonsense and try to save our democracy - think of all the parties out there you could canvas for social democrat, socialist, green, liberal even communist - there are more than just two flavors of ice-cream
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree Syria is about overthrowing a government which does not completely acquiesce to globalist policy - it has a state run central bank (crucial) and as a result runs its own economy. This situation is like Libya under Gaddafi - not acceptable to the global banking/corporate elites who want total control of every economy in the world (see Iran and North Korea as well). And what exactly does our 'democracy' consist of? Putting a cross in a box on a piece of paper once every 5 years. And
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) that's it. Coverage of the bloodshed of countries we've 'liberated' is sparse and yet we always get shown Iraqis and Afghans walking out of polling stations - because they've got democracy! 'Democracy' is nothing but a propaganda term in our society. We are given an illusion of choice but that's it. Any politician who strays outside of what is expected is left as a backbencher, demonised or worse. The Bank of England controls UK economic policy - it's a private corporation.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb I totally agree - but all I'm saying is- nihilism plays into their hands.Democracy was a joke in the 19th Century only people with property could vote excluding 80% of the population but our forebears didn't say what's the point - they reformed it. Its obvious now the media controls the masses - so its imperative we get control over a major net work - this can be done quite easily - if these brave young protesters change their tactics and target the media networks.
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree It often makes me laugh when anarchists try to smash up a bank - when the greatest tool of modern slavery is a matter feet away filming them. The BBC is paid for by the license fee - we are essentially paying to be propagandized - The governor of the BBC should be elected by the people - not hand picked by the establishment - we should start a campaign of civil disobedience to demand an election to be held for who runs this essential service
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree It's not nihilism to acknowledge that, even with the (intentional) inefficiencies of the current system, there's enough food to feed everyone 3,000 calories a day, and with the astonishing advances in technology it's unecessary to have some people work 8-12 hrs/day, 5-7 days/week while billions are unemployed and thus live in poverty. In the 1960s/70s people were taught in school that there would be more leisure time because wouldn't have to spend much time performing manual tasks.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) What they failed to factor in was the need for profit in the capitalist system. I would alter your analysis of the banks and media - the greatest propaganda tool for modern slavery is the television, while the system of slavery is the monetary system run by the central banks. No one under the age of 25 buys the newspapers anymore, and the internet is fairly unregulated so most get their news from a variety of sources. Even if we closed down the corporate media, the elites
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb You are now out of the matrix of media manipulations - so it's hard for you to see things from joe six pack's pov. The future battles are not going to be fought on the streets - protests are now pointless spectacles which the media use to underscore their phony democracy. As Jean Baudrillard contests we are now existing in a viral, virtual hyper reality were real events are sucked up into vast simulacrum. Its this within hyper reality were the new class war will be fought.
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree In large part, the illusion of democracy is over, if 'joe six pack' (working class I presume?) believed we lived in a true democracy he wouldn't be on streets of London protesting. As long as the internet remains unregulated, the information war can be won, and vast strides are being made as demonstrated by the ever decreasing voting numbers for the mainstream parties. But on its own victory within the hyperreality is meaningless if, in reality, the bankers still control the monetary
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) system, and the monetary system itself is still the active means of exchange. Power thus, in reality, still remains with those who control the monetary system, and everything that flows from that, the control of politicians, the army, police, intelligence services etc. And surely you can see that bringing up 'obsession' and 'anti-semitism' is precisely what the global elite intends when someone tries to discuss the monetary system. It is pop psychology and name-calling
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb but I what should we do about the banks - probably nationalizing them would be an option - bringing them back under democratic control and printing currency without creating a deficit. But you'd create inflation and the rich would moan that it was a silent tax. Moreover, it wouldn't stop profiteering by the rest of the corporations. China doesn't float its currency or employ fractional reserve banking - but its elite still exploits its people horribly.
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree A lot of people have been arrested, beaten even killed by the police (although it never makes the news) in the UK and US so, I know what you mean, but we shouldn't denigrate these brave people. And please don't use the word 'conspiracy' - it's simply a smear like 'kulak' 'communist' 'rascist' etc. (they once had meanings). I think you've implied again that I may be of the 'right'. I am not. I refuse to play the 'left-right' game in this theme park. Anyone who does is living firmly
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) in hyperreality, playing around with these simulacra. It's like playing the 'Jews vs. Christians' game, or the 'Black vs. Whites' or the 'Working class vs. Bourgeouisie' (yes Marx was firmly engrained in the system). Divide and Rule. Order out of Chaos. Anything to distract people from who's really in charge. I believe in abolishing the monetary system - abolish banks, abolish money, all of it. Socialism is, in reality, simply state-centralised capitalism. Whoever controls
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) the monetary system controls the state. It's no different under socialism except they do away with the whole 'democracy' and 'left vs. right' charade. That's why it's so confusing for people. Marx simply got the working class to fight the middle class, the elites remained in control. We need to move to a Resource-based economy. Like I explained in my 6th (!) post we have more than enough resources to give everyone on earth a good standard of living. People could work
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) 5 hours a day, 4 days a week. Maybe more, maybe less. Perhaps people could work full-time 10 year careers. These details would evolve. Technology is so advanced, that's why so many are unemployed, but the problem is people need money to survive. So do away with money, divide work equally to continue progress, everyone is given the appropriate resources for good standard of living. No money = no rich, no poor, it would be almost like returning to tribal times living in
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb Baudrillard will be like the Marx of the 21st Century - he will give us new strategies to subvert the simulacrum. Because the new political conflicts in a western sense will be fought on the battleground of the screen - the politicians already realize this - that's why they are spending a fortune on PR consultants and spin doctors . The spin doctors are not there to manage the public image they are there to create the media narrative
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree The media might seem like a trivial matter compared with the stuff you talk about - but it isn't - the indoctrinated masses are under its spell - just like religion - and that lasted for the best part of 2000 years. There is a worship of the screen almost akin to icons or rosary beads. Everyone caries around their little screen even though its the symbol of their slavery. Perhaps their should be a new iconoclasm to destroy the screen. Otherwise I can't see anything changing.
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) communes where everyone is provided for except with 21st century living standards. In terms of steps to get there. 1) Nationalise the central banks (very difficult because you get overthrown like Gaddafi, Assad etc.). 2) Nationalise all other banks. 3) Abolish all money. The main sticking point is that this really requires a revolution in the USA which is the vehicle the elites use to conquer/overthrow other governments. These steps are clear and tangible. The global elites
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb - he divided events into strong and weak categories - ows is a weak event - not as you experience it in reality - but through its mass media simulation. You can't ignore hyper reality because its now more important than what's happening in real time - the news event is the real event so to speak. So taking to the public square is ultimately ineffective because the public sphere now exists inside television.
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) never began with a full plan, neither did the inventor of the automobile or anything else for that matter, so I just want to pre-empt that common 'Where's your full plan?' chestnut in case it appears, please don't take offence :)
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb I have some sympathy with what you anarchists are saying but I find it a little utopian to say the least - but never the less the young should be utopian - it's their political role. As for the brave people protesting - I agree they are making enormous sacrifices but I just think in our digital age there's got to be a cleverer way of beating the system - perhaps 'anonymous' will be the way of the future. As for them getting hurt - Baudrillard talked about this -
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree I never talk about utopia. You never get there. And everyone's definition of it is different - your vision will be very different from mine. You could argue that Tony Blair's vision of 'Freedom' and 'Democracy' is utopian at a superficial level. We should aim for absolute justice. Human nature is not ultra-competitive and socially Darwinistic as we've been taught - this is simply the result of our social conditioning and environment. The idea that humans have to consistently be at
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) war, and in competition is of course fed to us through education and the mass media by the very people who benefit from these things. For most of human history we lived in communes of 50 to 150 people. There was very little hierarchy certainly nothing comparable to 'rich' and 'poor'. We've ended up in the ridiculous positoin of Merkel telling us that the Euro can't break up because its prevented WWII - she's literally set the bar as low as it could possibly go. If we accept
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb "For most of human history we lived in communes of 50 to 150 people."
Here's the ontological fact of human history that must be faced. Once the density of human populations increases beyond these small communities of which you speak, then power will go somewhere. Absent an institution like the modern nation state, power goes into the hands of warlords and gifted psychopaths. The M.N.S. is no ideal, but remains essential for our decent impulses to have struggling chance.
GenSButler 2 months ago
@GenSButler Chomsky offers vague generic notions about systems of power and authority being inherently bad, but fails to let you in on his common ground with finance oligarchs and the central banking system over which they preside: both want a weaker nation state. Chomsky spins it by presenting idealistic notions about a U.N. unfettered by US co-opting, a loose global federation of various people's, but behind the curtain is the real power which is finance capital.
GenSButler 2 months ago
@GenSButler Yeah that's what I spent 15 posts saying - the monetary system is a form of slavery, those in charge of it (the central banks' anonymous board members) are the slave masters. The purpose of WWI was the League of Nations, it failed so they initiated WWII and got the UN. A governing world body is vital if you're going to control the world economy. The idea that it is a moral agent is absurd as the UN resolution for a 'no-fly zone' in Libya showed, or its resolutions on Afghanistan.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb So let me get this straight - ww1 was deliberately engineered to set up the LGE of nations - I think some of this stuff is getting out of control. I mean i'm no fan of the financial elite but you ascribing them with god- like powers.
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree They're certainly not god-like the L of N was an utter failure, and they have setbacks like Chavez in Venezuela, Morales in Bolivia, Brazil refusing to take toxic assets in the form of derivatives (hence their economy is stronger than most), Argentina simply refusing to pay debt, the NHS etc. I don't have the time to explain WWI, simply that the orthodox histories of it are, like 9/11, extremely selective and full of non-sequiters. Check out Theodore Herzl's speech from the Sixth
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) Zionist Congress in Switzerland 1903. Truly shocking stuff. No sensible person could possibly buy Nationalism + Arms race = WWI as I was taught in school. The reasons for Britain's involvement, and that of the US or anybody else for that matter never did seem convincing. I recommend you do your own research, Niall Ferguson's 'Pity of War' is actually pretty helpful.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree I know this stuff is absolutely mind-blowing, but I'm obliged to say it, even if it makes me look mad. After all, Galileo and all that right? Just keep this in mind - what in your life can you do without money? Think about it. Virtually nothing, they even tax exhaling (CO2).
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb I don't go in for Niall Ferguson -I think he's a old Tory boy at heart. However, I admit there does seem to be a secret push toward globalization that has its roots in classical liberalism. But this is what Conrad would call the big idea like Christianity, Imperialism or communism. Below the big idea is some good old fashioned vested interest. Liberal Capitalism would exist regardless of a financial conspiracy because there are gargantuan profits to made from global trade.
32peartree 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb there are conflicts between domestic capital and international capital - international capital will always win because there are more profits to be made from trading with the world than just trading within your own market. These conflicts between capitalists - generally pass for what we call democracy - the masses are allowed to choose a party from either camp. Although recently the globalized liberals have gone into overdrive and trounced their opponent.
32peartree 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb Perhaps there is a grand conspiracy but I get the feeling the world would be little different without it. The likes of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs require free trade - cheap labor costs - and low inflation which is by and large is what the politicians and the Fed give them - why? because the bankers and the politicians also own shares in the same corporations - so they're all juiced in together. This is what Adam Smith calls the hidden hand - which seems like a vast conspiracy.
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree If only Ferguson was just a 'Tory boy' lol, he's a leading intellectual for the global elite - the official biographer of the Rothschilds and Kissinger. Hobsbawm is an unrepentant Stalinist. So what? If you only read authors with whom you agree you severely limit your ability to assimilate information. Judge books on their own merits, while keeping in mind the prejudices of the author. 'The Pity of War' is an excellent book on WWI I don't know of a better one, I recommend reading it.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) With regards to labor costs, free trade, inflation etc. these are capitalist propaganda terms and simulacra. 'Free trade'? We have nothing of the kind. It's a propaganda term like 'Democracy' and 'Freedom'. The giant corps and banks do whatever they want, the rest are enslaved with taxes, rents, regulations, laws etc. The US has huge tariffs on foreign steel and food imports. What does inflation have to do with inventing an Ipod? Nothing. Inflation is a method of controlling
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb the rich don't like inflation - naturally they like a safe stable currency, If inflation goes up they see it has a hidden tax - if a billion dollars loses its value overnight - you're half has rich. I know what you're saying about Ferguson - he's astute - but beneath the effete exterior everything he says is underpinned with his monetarist bias - so I generally don't trust him - what is it Henry Ford said about history?
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree No. Inflation is bad for the poor and middle classes (ie. the 99%) because food is more expensive, drink is more expensive, petrol, transport etc. life becomes more difficult - look at Peru where the price of bread increased 41 times overnight in 1990 thanks to the IMF - who suffered most? The rich? No. Inflation means people's savings in the bank become worthless - however small those savings are. The global elite have their wealth in hard assets - property, land, commodities, gold
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) silver, real estate- things of real and lasting value. Their money is 'safe havens' like Switzerland. That's why they willingly crash the economy and the value of their assets skyrocket - just look at gold and silver and commodities prices right now. Then as people and governments stuggle on their payments, the banks take people's houses, airports, water, hospitals, roads, coal mines, oil fields... the endgame is to take everything. You're wrong on inflation, no disrespect :)
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb all what you say is true about the bankers but also of the rich more generally - like the difference between the good poor and bad poor, people like to make distinctions between the good rich and the bad rich. Big corporations make hostile takeovers, asset strip, price fix to take out a competitor - Murdoch, Turner, Gates also put their money in Switzerland. The Bankers get the most stick because they're are offering the service of usury which is of course a sin.
32peartree 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb so this hatred of bankers goes very deep in Western culture - in bad times - the banks are always the scapegoats - and the rest of the rich who invested in them are happy for them to take the brunt of the hatred. This is not to excuse what the banks did - but I didn't hear many people complaining at the time. Of course, the bankers are greedy - but that's like criticizing a prostitute for being promiscuous. But you still haven't told me how the banks engineered ww1
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) the population through manipulation of the monetary system. Was Newton dependent on inflation? Was Einstein? Was Mozart? The idea we can't create things without the monetary system is propaganda like saying 'We have to put a no-fly zone over Benghazi to prevent genocide' (UN resolution 1973). It bares no resemblance to reality. Just like what we call capitalism bares no resemblance to what's set out in 'Wealth of Nations'. None at all.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@GenSButler The UN has done more than any governing body outside the US Congress to legitimise mass-murder in the past 60 years. It is a vehicle the global elite use for world domination. Chomsky's hands are tied, as this video shows, by the fact he is paid by MIT. I agree that a fully sovereign MNS is the probably the best form of governance that we have come up with so far, as it has the capability to distribute resources evenly.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb Re: Chomksy's tied hands
I don't believe that Chomsky's hands are tied.
GenSButler 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) simply accept 'avoiding genocidal world war' as success then we truly are doomed. Just because in 1800 it was impossible to move at the speed of sound or fly at 3,000 feet, didn't mean it was irrational/utopian to claim these things were possible. Just because we havent been able to define absolute justice doesn't mean we should deny it's existence and stop trying to reach it.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) ,simply a way of dodging discussion. It's understandable that this is the reaction people get however when they discuss the monetary system. It is literally never discussed in the corporate mass media, and most independent media outlets simply don't know about or understand the monetary system anyway. It is a complete shock to the system when discussed. People find it easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of money. My critique of your position on how the war can
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb In regards to the banking conspiracy - there was a time before the FED and it was called the 19th Century - and it was hardly a bed of roses. I'm no fan of the FED but getting rid of it wouldn't be some magic wand - capitalism has always boomed and bust - its the nature of the beast. The right like to believe there was purer less corrupt form of capitalism once upon a time - but this is a myth - the rich have always rigged the market.
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.)be won is the similar to Merrin’s critique of Baudrillard. Reality does still exist, and is where wars are won. As Mao said, Revolution is not a Dinner party. Real resistance always involves fists, guns and blood. Tweeting can help, but that’s it.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb In all due respect, the West is now too rich to have a traditional revolution - although the poor are still with us - they are now in the minority - this is not the hungry 30s. The real sharp end of capitalism is in the third world that's why we're seeing all these popular insurrections. In truth, what's happening in Wall Street is a pale imitation - or rather a simulation. Its almost like we feel we have to take part to keep up the tradition.
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) BTW I agree that the banks and corps prefer 'democracy' and 'freedom' to dictatorship. However, they behind these simulacra, they have been laying the foundations for dictatorship. With internet surveillance, CCTV, mobile phone tracking, DNA databases etc. and finally the RFID chip (when they get round to it) they are close to reaching a position of power against which effective resistance may be close to impossible.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@32peartree (cont.) would simply revert to more open methods of coercion just as they do when there are protests. The 1,000 electricians and 10-15,000 students on 9 Nov. had seen through the propaganda and were faced with 4,000 police with horses, riot gear and rubber bullets. There were thousands of police protecting the banks in the City, nowhere near the protesters. Beating the media is the easy part. The real battle is with the bankers, CEOS and their political puppets themselves.
historypoliticsbb 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb - if the veil of the corporate media lifted and they reverted to pure power - this, paradoxically, would be a victory for democracy - the illusion would be over. Dictatorships will always crumble no matter how draconian - this is why the banks and the corps don't desire dictatorship - the cat would be out of the bag - instead they prefer to fool the masses with freedom under brainwashing.
32peartree 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb this obsession with the banks I find dangerous - it seems a thinly veiled form of anti-semitism from the right - 'if it wasn't for the those jewboy bankers Capitalism would work just fine' banking is only a part of the problem - the military industrial complex, big oil, media moguls like Ted Turner, Murdoch, Forbes - all the retail giants, dot com tycoons - the richest most powerful people in the world are not Bankers.
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree I often found the charges of anti-semitism a compelling reason not to look into the control of society through the issuance of currency. Now that I have taken some time to study the nature of finance capital, the history of the Federal Reserve, etc... I am inclined to believe that charges of anti-semitism often work in favor of finance oligarchs much the way that the term "conspiracy theory" can prompt an a priori dismissal of a line of reasoning about 911 or JFK.
GenSButler 2 months ago
@historypoliticsbb Such civil disobedience could take the form of disrupting sporting events - reality TV shows- vox pops - etc - this is the weak underbelly of the beast. They need interactivity with the public in order to deceive them. The Media is the modern religion - the corporations are the modern aristocracy - like Martin Luther we have to nail our petition to the church door.
32peartree 2 months ago
Not to mention the anarchist use of the jolly roger, the fact that anarchists assassinated President McKinley and Franz Ferdinand and burnt down the Reichstag. And why does the mainstream news keep bombarding us with images of Anarchists in wall street and london - when other groups are ignored. Maybe this is why Shelly called his poem - The Masque of Anarchy.
32peartree 2 months ago
Its starting to make sense - anarchy in all its forms is the ideology of NWO not communism and fascism has the right like to suggest. The Illuminati were the progenitors of Anarchism. Marx expelled Bukunin for belonging to a secret organisation. The Great Seal equates to A inside the circle symbol. Both Neo Conservatism and Neo Liberalism are vulgar anarchist concepts. Anarchists within the Young Hegelians formed the skull and bones club. Anarchists use the agenda of terror and assassination.
32peartree 2 months ago
@32peartree I don't think that anarchy is the ideology of the NWO, but I do think that the finance oligarchs are happy to use anarchy as an ideological front for wrecking movements. In this regard, is anarchy much different from Al-CIA-da? Drawing dissent into dysfunctional extremist postures is now a well practiced trick.
GenSButler 2 months ago
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32peartree 2 months ago
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32peartree 2 months ago
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32peartree 2 months ago
@GenSButler The finance oligarchs are anarchists - they are just the rich variety. Rolling back the state, minimal taxation, free trade are not just economic gambits - they have deep ideological roots. They stem from profound hatred of the state which can be traced back to Germany and the Rosicrucians. The anarchists/ neo liberal/neo conservatives and paleo conservatives all see the state has the root of all evil. Which might originate from the persecution of the KT - but that's just conjecture
32peartree 2 months ago
Chomsky is an anarchist. For all his criticism of the American elite - when it comes to the crunch he'll jump in bed with Milton Friedman.
32peartree 2 months ago
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32peartree 2 months ago
Any respect I had for Chomsky for his intellectual achievements just went out he window. He is a treasonous, poisoned, angry man. What happened in his life that made him so angry?
beeroosterm 3 months ago
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@beeroosterm
Terrorists caused 9/11. Case closed.
Terrorists have no religion, no culture, and no nation, though they wear those as costumes to incriminate others. They have loyalty only to their own egos.
The 9/11 assault was an attack against Islam. If you don't believe that, look at the results.
Who would want to hurt Islam? The zionazis?
eastariel 3 months ago
@beeroosterm
To be good citizens, we must follow love and reason in protecting America.
Our government is a collection of public servants. We must protect our American servants from the few among them who would poison the government with dark intentions and criminal actions.
I love our government. The vast majority of our public servants have good intentions. But it only takes a few to ruin it for the many. We need to protect the many from the crimes of those few.
eastariel 3 months ago
@beeroosterm Maybe it was all those dead Iraqi kids ?
vladdrac88 2 months ago
@vladdrac88 No. He's been like this for decades.
beeroosterm 2 months ago
@beeroosterm Sorry guy, but , I like the man. I have yet to hear him say something I disagree with.
vladdrac88 2 months ago
@vladdrac88 Well, he seems like a kindly old man, but he is poisoning people (especially the easily influenced college-age students where he works) into thinking the USA is somehow the epitome of evil. Unless you do your homework, you might agree with him. Do yourself a favor and do your homework. If after you still agree with Chomsky, please go live in Sweden - or one of the many other countries he lauds over the USA as superior - and live the reality of his preaching. He doesn't...
beeroosterm 2 months ago
@beeroosterm It is not the USA which is the epitome of evil, and he does not say that. He blames those who at the moment control US "Public Opinion". Some who control US public opinion are not even really Americans. One of FOX's major share holders is a member of the Gulf Oil aristocracy. I've been doing my homework for half a century. At the moment, the quality of life in America is much damaged by the fantastic sums of money we have wasted on war to protect private interests control of oil
vladdrac88 2 months ago
@vladdrac88 Chomsky DOES blame the U.S. and denounces the nation state as just another authoritarian form. He ignores the power of the modern nation state to act as a firewall against the worst excesses of the finance oligarchy. And, the institutions that are purely the dominion of the finance oligarchy? The CFR? The Federal Reserve? Well, people who talk about that stuff are "conspiracy theorists" wasting their time. Some activist!
GenSButler 2 months ago
@GenSButler You picked General Butler for you're avatar. He picks 'banksters' as malefactors in his writings. Was Andrew Jackson a conspiracy theorist?. I agree with you in that government should be the firewall between the people and the financial oligarchs, but it seems to me and many others that the government has failed in that respect. There is a great national discussion about the oligarchs purchase of political power in the legislature. Are these people all crackpots?.
vladdrac88 2 months ago
@vladdrac88 You're going to have to titrate your point as I really don't understand what you're asking. You're all over the map with your response.
GenSButler 2 months ago
@GenSButler You know perfectly well what I mean unless somehow you took only physical sciences and no liberal arts courses. Perhaps you attended Hillsdale College, in which case communication may prove impossible.
vladdrac88 2 months ago
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GenSButler 2 months ago
@vladdrac88 "You know perfectly well what I mean..."
No, I really don't know what you mean. You're asking about four different things at once. You are all over the map. Please hone your inquiry to me and ask again. There's no need to be so defensive.
GenSButler 2 months ago
@GenSButler You refer to Chomsky as a "treasonous, poisoned, angry man". I do not agree with you at all. I think he is wise, temperate and loving.
vladdrac88 2 months ago
@vladdrac88 You are confusing my statements with the statements of another because I responded to a thread you had started with someone besides me.
GenSButler 2 months ago
@GenSButler OK
vladdrac88 2 months ago
Noam Chomsky is protecting his tribe, because Israel and their sayanim did 9/11.
Have you all watched:
9/11 Missing Links
beppu 3 months ago
jew, no mention of israel, but rssia and inda? lol, what a shill
mussolinitho 3 months ago
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Occupy Together!
-->meetup.com/occupytogether/
infiniteinfiniteinfi 3 months ago
@theonlyone246 congrats on that ridiculas rant
derpotni3riots 3 months ago
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The proof that 9/11 was an inside job is crushing. Here's a link to some of it.
spurstalk (dot) com/forums/showthread (dot) php?t=144746
Chomsky and the rest of those anti-establishment pundits aren't morons so they know it was an inside job. They're all probably being threatened. They don't want their grandchildren to start having "Accidents".
Cosmored 3 months ago
Anyone 40+ who grew up being told we needed a huge military to fight Communism (fighting Communism was a way of life,millions of Jobs) & who grew up with the gas shortage of the '70's,driving 55,hating Arabs cos they had us by the shorts,should see just how conveniently the War on Terror replace$ the Cold War & how conveniently it has allowed us to invade the Middle East & use our sole superpower status.If you see & say nothing then blood's on your hands.911=inside job
waitew 4 months ago
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Smedley2323 4 months ago 8
Sorry, that's ASCE (American Society of Civil Engineers) that journal falls under the umbrella of. Not "ACSE".
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I wonder why it is that the following post has twice been flagged as spam:
To Big Mike: re: "I am part of the conspiracy. Spooky!"
Part of the conspiracy or not, you are part of the problem. If you believe what you say, that this is a distraction, then stop making enemies with a group of people who are, person for person, against the war. As long as you're doing that, no one is going to trust you and most will recognize your obvious hypocrisy.
GenSButler 4 months ago
@benladen9892 posted on my profile:
"LONG LIVE HITLER,LONG LIVE EGYPT,LONG LIVE IRAN,your day is coming"
What a perfect example that Nazi Himmler knew what he talked about:
1:Himmler SS head established Islamische Zentralinstitu to create Islamic leaders that would
USE ISLAMAISM AS A CARRIER FOR NATZI IDEOLOGY IN THE 21 CENTURY
2:Arabs volunteered to Nazi army-40000 in Balkan divisions.
3:Muslim brotherhood leader:
The Nazi dint finished the job.The Muslim brotherhood will finish
MordechayAriely 4 months ago
It would be great if Chomsky came to believe that it was a conspiracy.He is such a big name.If 9/11 was an inside job it is vital for the world to realize it.Because it was the beginning of the "war on terror" which is no concrete enemy and is continual.The perfect war! If 9/11 was in inside job than this War On Terror is a hoax.Its agenda entirely different from what it states
I think eventually Chomsky will admit the veracity of the 9/11 conspiracy theories.You cant dispel so many smoking guns
iankyoko 4 months ago
@iankyoko If there was any real evidence for it Noam Chomsky wouldn't hesitate to back it. He's made a career of going against the grain and calling the government on its evil. The fact that he is NOT supportive of these theories should tell you something. A smart guy like Noam Chomsky who is a lifelong opponent of governments isn't convinced by your so-called "smoking guns". Maybe you ought to take a second look at why you believe what it is you believe.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ I'll admit that Chomsky probably has 50 IQ points on me, but...based on what he said in parts 1 and 2 of this video, I can confidently state that Chomsky is a complete IDIOT! His argument is idiotic. Then, "...And even if it were true, who cares?"
Hey, Chomsky: F*** you! I care and millions of others care. The evidence is there in droves, you idiot! (Chomsky)
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh His arguments make sense. The experts overwhelmingly reject an explosives-based conspiracy, the logistics of rigging three huge buildings for demolition without being detected is basically impossible, and a conspiracy that vast would require many, many people and would certainly have leaked by now. It's really pretty obvious stuff.
The "who cares?" part you need to listen to in context. He's saying this is a small-scale event in the global scale of things. 9/11 isn't that important
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ If you check out the video I helped make, "An Animated Discussion about 9/11" including the Resources Page at the end, there are pertinent facts to address these issues.
Nothing can ever excuse the "Who cares?" statement. It is inhuman.
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh Do you have any idea how many deaths the US is in some way responsible for around the world, every day? Or if not responsible for, could easily prevent? You really ought to read some of what Chomsky has written. The idea that 3000 Americans dying is this Earth-shattering tragedy is laughable when you look at the scale of death and suffering the US instigates or shrugs its shoulders at. Even amongst its own people, for lack of basic human rights like universal health care.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh So yeah, as Chomsky said, who cares? It's only a big deal because the USA isn't used to having the deaths it's responsible for so visible. It prefers to watch its death on the sands in the Middle East, or in the gutters of its streets. Not amidst its big, phallic landmarks of greed and imperialism.
Who cares. Who cares. Who fucking cares.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ I care! Big Mike and Chomsky: brothers in sociopathic tendencies.
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh Go watch the Republican Primary debates. People cheered loudest of all when mention was made of how many people Perry executed in Texas. When Ron Paul was asked who should pay for the health care of someone without insurance, and was asked in jest if they should "let him die" instead, audience members clapped and shouted "yes!".
The USA is full of tragedies much worse than 9/11 which happen every day, and it commits crimes worse than 9/11 upon others to the cheers of its citizens.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ I'm not taking your bait. I'm not going to change the subject. 9/11 was an inside job. The evidence is overwhelming in this regard. This is the topic. Chomsky doesn't care; evidently you don't care, Big Mike, but I care and I am pretty sure that many thousands if not millions of other people care. We need an international court to provide justice so that we can end the wars and occupations.
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh This isn't bait, it's exactly what Chomsky meant when he said "who cares". If you think 3000 people dying in an attack is a big deal, why don't you look around you for a change? Policies the US government INTENTIONALLY pushes forward routinely lead to the deaths of its own citizens in a far greater magnitude than 9/11. And yet you act as if the government being behind a measly 3000 deaths would be a big deal. Are you really so ignorant of your own government and its policies?
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ 3,000 deaths will never be "measly" to me. There have been many more deaths and more suffering as a consequence of 9/11, and there have been other deaths and sufferring that are not directly linked with 9/11, but that doesn't change the fact that the World Trade Center buildings (the twin towers and Bldg 7) were brought down by explosives, and all the other evidence of a false flag operation and cover-up. Let's have the international court case, and let the chips fall...
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh You're surrounded by death and suffering that is purposefully instigated by your own government, and yet you chase ghosts and talk about international courts for something as uncertain as 9/11 being a conspiracy. If you actually gave a shit about your own countrymen being killed, you wouldn't have any time in the day for something like this 9/11 business to occupy your thoughts.
Unless it's of the 9/11 emergency workers your government refuses to provide health care for, that is.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ There's no point discussing Chomsky's statements on 911 with someone who will not watch the definitive answer to the WTC building collapses: AE911truth(dot)org. There's a 15 min. video. But you just wanna do the old razzle dazzle re-direction bit. I'm done with this discussion with you (at least until you watch that video with an open mind).
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh I've seen all that shit before. I've seen the Loose Change crap, I've seen the AE911Truth crap, I've seen the general practitioner Jeff King pass himself off as an "MIT engineer" and talk to people as if he knows something, I've seen it all.
But go ahead, pretend like 9/11 is the biggest scandal facing the US, that its casualties are unprecedented. Be blind to the real crimes and the real tragedies happening all around you while you chase your own tail.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh People who devote significant amounts of energy to 9/11 debunking, and then claim that the topic is a distraction... their own actions elude credibility. The press for 9/11 truth helped neutralize the push for war against Iran in 2006, and has more generally contributed to eroding the base of support for the war and other egregious policies. It is foolish to challenge the current wars without challenging the unsubstantiated premise on which it rests.
nealkassanoff 4 months ago
what is chomsky's faith background?
8erfromdec 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Thanks for the tip on the Eagar paper. He was an eagar beaver. He gets the prize for promptness. Very interesting, but it, like the NIST report doesn't consider the collapse of building 7 and the molten metal in the rubble reported by NASA satellites and workers on the ground months afterwards.. I appreciate the brilliant Noam Chomsky. I was only angered by his cavalier, "Who cares?" when the prevailing understanding of the event led to 2 wars and a million dead.
dfesteelguitar 4 months ago
@dfesteelguitar The molten metal has been addressed. The rubble burned hot enough in the days after the collapse that workers and reporters both commented on the rivers of molten metal at the base of the structures.
The collapse of WTC 7 is a non-issue. Firefighters heard it groaning hours before the collapse and watched as it collapsed later in the day. No one died because they knew it was coming. I'm not sure what your theory of choice is on its collapse, but explosives would not be possible.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Building 7 exhibited all the characteristics of classic controlled demolition. Pulverized building materials were ejected horizontally at 160 to 200 mph many floors below the falling top floors. They could only have been pulverized and ejected at that speed through the use of explosives. 13 top defenders of the official conspiracy theory were invited to debate AE911Truth. Eagar and 11 others declined. I do appreciate your civility; it's so easy to lose tempers about this.
dfesteelguitar 4 months ago
@dfesteelguitar I imagine if debris were ejected at that speeds people outside the collapse zone would have likely been killed, as the area was swarming with workers and onlookers. Nobody was either hurt nor made mention of any such high-speed debris. There was also no explosion heard, and no windows were blown outward as they would've been if explosives were used.
There's also the rather large question of how or why explosives would have been used at all. The former, especially, is a big one.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard You can see the squibs on quite a few videos. Danny Ochenko, the top controlled demolition guy in Holland watched the videos and was sure it was controlled demolition.
dfesteelguitar 4 months ago
@dfesteelguitar Odd, Google has never heard of this "Danny Ochenko". And if watching the video were enough to make it a "sure" thing that it's a controlled demolition you wouldn't have had to look to mysterious figures in Europe for assurances that it was. There are no doubt many thousands of people who are in the controlled demolition business who watched those videos and came to a different conclusion.
Moreover, no explosions heard, no windows blown out, took almost a minute to collapse.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Sorry for the wild goose chase, Mike! My bad. Danny Jawenko is the name. I was way off. For a more complete list try googling "People with demolition expertise questioning 9/11." A New Yorker actually tops the list. Building 7 fell at near free-fall speed with a lot of eyewitness reports of explosions. Everyone should watch 9/11 Blueprint For Truth by AE911Truth.
dfesteelguitar 4 months ago
@dfesteelguitar There are videos of it collapsing on YouTube. It collapses in sections and not at freefall speed. I'm not sure why you need "a lot of eyewitness reports of explosions" when you can see it fall without explosions, not at freefall speed, without windows blowing outward from a blast, etc. And, again, firefighters knew it was going to fall and that's why nobody was hurt.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard "WTC7 in Freefall: No Longer Controversial" is a very informative video on youtube. The reason we need eyewitnesses is because they're there. They exist. If I'm investigating a murder and there are eyewitnesses, I want to hear what they have to say. I'm not going to say, "Send em home. We don't need em. FEMA and NIST already told us what happened."
I see I got Jowenko's name wrong again. Jowenko.
dfesteelguitar 4 months ago
@dfesteelguitar You need to not watch videos so much and instead try and focus on actual written materials. The conspiracy people tend to use videos, everyone else tends to use written reports. In this case, there are a variety of write-ups about the physics behind the collapses specifically related to whether they were freefall or not. In short, they weren't, but for a lark you can read what Frank Greening, a fellow Canadian, wrote on it.
I am not going to watch yet another video on this.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Greening was very clear in his writing that he has nothing more than a hypothesis that must be verified by actual tests in the real world. Please point me to the tests in the real world. Otherwise, by his own account, we have no verification.
nealkassanoff 4 months ago
@nealkassanoff Eyewitnesses in general are fairly useless. On a day as chaotic as that one, even moreso. I tend to go by what the firefighters reported at the time though, as at least there are actual recordings of their activities in a lot of cases. Or they were interviewed very shortly afterward. Other eyewitness testimonies are bound to be conflicting.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Wow, you completely and absolutely mischaracterized and/or ignored my point, which is that Greening is very clear in his own writing- "here is what might have happened. someone should test this hypothesis or there is no proof that its true." Greening passes the buck. He draws no conclusions but the need for further research. Period.
nealkassanoff 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Again, thanks for the tip. I'll look up Greening, but I must say, Mike, you're obviously very interested in this issue but not interested in eyewitnesses, not even interested in what you're own eyes can tell you. That's why you think it took a minute for 7 to fall. If you'd look you'd see it's less than 10 sec., at least 2 & 1/2 in free fall. That much free-fall means a lot of steel got moved first. Have you read the Steven Jones paper on the red and gray chips?
dfesteelguitar 4 months ago
@dfesteelguitar Steven Jones really overstepped himself in his writings. It's cool to write on what you have expertise on, but him going into that whole schtick involving the geopolitical motives behind the conspiracy he alleges exists and just in general has lack of really being scientific about it all.
Either way, he is in a small minority of people with credentials who allege this stuff to be the work of explosives. There are more qualified people who disagree with his assessment.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard "Either way, he (Steven Jones) is in a small minority of people with credentials who allege this stuff".
This is a moot point. Scientific credibility is not determined by majority rule. Talk to Galileo about that. Jones points to observable evidence that a fire hypothesis can be ruled out empirical observation and experiments, and that a thermite hypothesis is supported by the same.
nealkassanoff 4 months ago
@nealkassanoff It's true that science isn't a democracy, but it's important to realize that everything has its detractors. The analogue between the 9/11 conspiracy stuff and creationism challenging evolution is a very good example. People who work in science careers do not always apply scientifically rigorous standards to all of their beliefs. There are qualified biologists who reject evolution, after all, but that doesn't really say anything about evolution as a scientific principle.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard
Have you found the input data or the peer review on the NIST Final Report on Building 7? Lets see some sound science to back up your belief in the fire hypothesis.
Generally speaking, scientists who evade peer review and conceal the data on which they draw their conclusions receive contempt from their peers, as well they should.
Nonetheless, trying to conjure associations between creationism and 911 truth is a commendably manipulative tactic, if your into manipulation.
nealkassanoff 4 months ago 4
@BigMikeMcBastard Evolution has over a hundred years of peer reviewed evidence and is supported by the fossil record. According to a Pew Poll in 2009 (Google it), 97% of scientists believe that humans and animals evolved. 6 of the 10 9/11 commissioners have stated that the 9/11 commissioners doubted the findings, stating that they were obstructed from completing a full investigation. Lifelong experts in terror like Dr. Steve Pieczenik who worked through 4 Presedential administrations (cont)
EyesDownfield 4 months ago
@EyesDownfield said that he would be willing to testify in Federal courts that his expert analysis is that 9/11 was an inside job. So you have 60% of the 9/11 commissioners saying the investigation was inaccurate and over 1500 architects and engineers who have refuted the idea that the airplanes could have the potential to destroy or warp the steel core of the building. The only unscientific stance is to dogmatically accept this flawed investigation as 100% factual when 6/10 have expressed doubt
EyesDownfield 4 months ago
@EyesDownfield And despite the mountain of evidence supporting evolution and the scant evidence supporting creationism, creationism still has a major following amongst laypeople in the USA.
Steve Pieczenik is welcome to provide actual evidence that bin Laden was dead before 9/11 and that the entire thing was an inside job.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
These two videos (parts 1 and 2) contain all you need to know about Chomsky. This is the great intellectual that so many revere? He is n-o-t-h-i-n-g.
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago 5
@ucancallmeOh It's pretty tragic how you people use a single issue like this to decide someone's value. Noam Chomsky is a man who has spent his entire adult life speaking out against the government and trying to expose its tricks and lies. For you to claim he's "nothing" because he doesn't share your love for believing things on scant evidence is absurd.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ I am a very polite person, generally speaking. But this 'great intellectual' is suggesting that I not believe what a mountain of evidence is showing me, right in front of my eyes. We are talking about alleged treason and mass murder as well as starting wars based on lies...and this man says, "...Even if it were true, who cares?" No, Big Mike, this is unacceptable. Please check out this video "An Animated Discussion about 9/11".
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh Your jokes regarding Eagar and his paper are fairly laughable themselves. Who are you to judge the quality of such papers? As Chomsky points out, if browsing some opinions on the Internet is enough to qualify someone as an authority on building collapses, why then are there universities which offer actual programs to that end? MIT is one of the foremost engineering schools on the planet, and Eagar a well-regarded expert on the matter. You'd be wise to parrot better opinions.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ I couldn't figure out who "Eager" was... You got your wires crossed with dfesteelguitar.
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh Hah, fancy that. Well, apologies. Happens to the best of us.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard ~ No problema. During the interim, I was trying to remember the name of the MIT professor who is in a you tube video about the collapses...it's Jeff King. If you type in "MIT professor on WTC building collapses" it'll come up. Good stuff.
There is just so much evidence and expert testimony available now...it seems moot to even discuss it. Bring it on in international court. I swear, if I won the lottery, I'd use 90% of it to fund that endeavor.
ucancallmeOh 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh Jeff King actually isn't an MIT professor. He did an electrical engineering/biology undergrad at MIT, then went to medical school after working for some time as an undergrad engineer, and he's been a physician since.
He doesn't work for MIT, nor has he ever, and his engineering expertise is in the electrical variety and is limited to undergrad level, which means it's worth basically nothing. He's not an authority on the matter.
Google "jeff king mit". "Plaguepuppy" is his own page.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago
@ucancallmeOh Jeff King actually isn't an MIT professor. He did an electrical engineering/biology undergrad at MIT, then went to medical school after working for some time as an undergrad engineer, and he's been a physician since.
He doesn't work for MIT, nor has he ever, and his engineering expertise is in the electrical variety and is limited to undergrad level, which means it's worth basically nothing. He's not an authority on the matter.
Google "jeff king mit". "Plaguepuppy" is his own page.
BigMikeMcBastard 4 months ago