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From: polisharabia
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  • ur canadian, who gives a fuck what u think??lol jk

  • You make too much sense.

  • Seriously Do you really want buerocrates to run your health care!!!! Don't fall the for the B.S. people they own your health care they own YOU!!

  • I don't want the government to own me. Logically, there must be a limited system in place for everything. Traffic lights are one example, or there would be anarchy. Is a fully free market system the answer, with no rules? Possibly. But then you may be uninsurable by every insurance company. Now what? I have no problem with a fully free market health care system But don't YOU cry when/if you have a heart attack, and it costs you 500 000, with no insurance. :)
  • Excellent point! Our tax dollars already go to police protection, roads, public education; why not healthcare?

    Plus, private insurers don't always cover the type of illness you have. You may get cancer, and come to find out that your insurance company does not cover that cancer. So you spent thousands paying your premiums only to have to front the cost of your medical bills. Studies show that most people who go bankrupt from medical bills actually had insurance. It just didn't cover them.

  • The U.S. has safety nets for people who cannot afford it. Your humanitarian argument has no merit. Govt. run health care is not about providing care for those who cannot afford it. Its all about control. If you control someone's access to health care, you effectively have control of that person.

  • You may be right. That is why I am here,

    to debate the issue. However, here in

    Canada, my family has had life saving

    operations. And each one successful,

    and in an appropriate time.  However, we

    were not allowed to pick the surgeon who

    operated.

  • The health care system in the US needs control. The people that run the health care system now can't seem to do it. The insurance companies are telling you which Dr. you can use. They are telling you what precedures you can have and if you can have it regardless of what your Dr. wants. The health care system is going to fail soon regardless of what Obama does.

  • The best combination is both private and public working inside an efficient system. America spends more on healthcare than any country in the world but the system is high corrupt and inefficient. 30% of the 2.4 trillion that US spends goes into marketing and paperwork of profit insurance firms. It is not a case of socialism and capitalism efficiency is the solution.

    I am a Republican andthe most sensible proposal I've seen so far is HR 676.

    Obama's healthcare plan is unbelievably stupid.

  • Fair enough. But what if some 'bum' on

    the street is hit by a car, and he has no

    money, and no insurance. He's got

    about 20 minutes to live, as long as an

    ambulance picks him up, and he gets

    some treatment. What about him?

    If HR 676 is implimented and the system

    runs efficently, how does the 'bum' fit in?

  • by the way, 27tentyseven27, I am

    confused on your numbers. In 2008,

    the US federal government spent about

    3 trillion. Of that 700 billion was spent

    on health care. About the same amount

    spent on defence. So your figure, 2.4

    trillion, means about 1.7 trillion comes

    from insurance companies and policy

    holders???

    Correct me if I am wrong :)

  • I think vouchers might be the way to go - along with government incentives to get more smart people to go into medical training.

    The voucher system will turn health recipients into paying customers who can reward efficiency and outcomes with patronage. This will increase quality and give more power to the small guy (note the price and quality improvements with competitive Lasac surgery).

    And with government subsidized training, we will avoid a market shortage of doctors.

    Ta Da!

  • Please explain the voucher system to

    me. I do not understand this. It seems

    to be an American deal. :)

  • There is an attractive alternative which I highly recommend based on my own personal experience.  Medical tourism! For example: It is cheaper for me to go to Bogota or Cali Colombia, and get my dental work, done by great doctors, highly qualified (Most of them speak English), at LESS THAN HALF the cost in the United States including the plane fare and the hotel. The Colombians now have hotel/hospitals specially designed for medical tourists. Think of it as foreign aid the republican way.

  • Really? Alot of Canadians go to Pheonix

    and Florida, in the winter, for 3 to 6 months. Some of them, go to Mexico

    for dental work, as it is cheaper than in

    Canada. Made money in Canada, spend

    in Mexico. Ok, make money is States,

    spend in Columbia. Cheaper. Long

    run..........less jobs for Americans. Less

    for Canadians. Is that the real answer?

  • Polisharabia I think it is a real answer because in capitalism prices are regulated by competition and the American and Canadian medical services must also learn to compete in the open America's market. I believe it is the best way to force the medical field to lower their ridiculous prices. In this case it is not less jobs for Americans (why not include Americans from the South?) because, as Morris said, doctors have their hands full already, not to mention their wallets.

  • what if you have a complication...do you make US doctors bail you out?

  • That's mythology. Colombians have world class doctors. Many Colombian doctors are heads of hospitals and research centers in the USA

  • No India has world class Doctors and they are the heads of hospitals and research centers, just like in Canada and the U.K.

  • When the life expectancy in India in 2005 was 63.9 years, in Colombia the life expectancy in the same year was 72.2 years of age. Which suggest Colombia by ratio of population has much better doctors than India. - I used the same life expectancy chart. keep in mind a Colombia is suffering an internal conflict with a large number of displaced citizens, and all the premature dead's caused by an internal war with guerrilla, drug dealers and paramilitary. Colombia has excellent school's of medicine

  • I would have no doubt Colombia has excellent medical schools, theres know room for ignorance here, we can learn something from everybody. From what I understand Cuba produces high quality doctors to .

  • To: DILV79

    Let's be realisitic. Comparing Canada

    or the USA to Cuba or Columbia is somewhat ridiculous. Those countries

    are in shambles, poor, economic disastors. You point to good medicine and others point to good education in

    Cuba. Fine. If true, what about starvation,

    no money, bad economy, starvation.....

    Be real man.

  • I can not respond concerning Canada, but as far as the U.S goes they have a shortage of Doctors and nurses and bringing in Doctors from other countrys has been the norm now for a while. The U.S has the lowest rate of people graduating from college out of any other western country in the border states the bring in nurses from Canada.

  • Thanx DIJV79,

    But you did not answer the question. So

    what if Columbia has the best doctors in

    the Universe!!!! What about the country

    in shambles, the drug trade, starvation,

    no money, bad economy, corrupt drug

    lords and police, and kids begging for

    food. But they have the best doctors

    in the Universe!!! Bar none!!! So what.

    DO YOU SEE MY POINT????????

  • Yeah ! I see your point.

  • Canada has alot less doctors then they ever had they have no incentive to become doctors.

    Please get you're facts right Canadian health care sucks!

  • I am not saying you are absolutely wrong

    JOHN. But why do Canadian people have

    no incentive to be a doctor? You tell

    me????

  • Cash incentive the Canadian government does not pay as much as Doctors get in America.

    In fact Canada has far less Doctors thanks to there garbage system plus it is rationed health care.

    That will not work in America.

    And Obamas plan cuts seniors health care and they vote i think Obama will be a one term president if he keeps up with these bad idea's and all his radical spending.

  • I cannot disagree with you :)

    However, one question. Should there

    be a limit on the amount a DR. can make?

    A heart surgeon in Canada may make

    $500 000 a year. A heart surgeon in

    The United States may make between

    2 million to 5 million a year. As such, free

    market only on a salary for a DR????

    Yes or no bud??? :)

  • No if they can make more that's fine.

    We can't limit peoples pay that is not the real American way.

    Socialit liberals would love to do that but not sane thinking American's.

  • Bad ideas?

    Most of the world is actually starting to not hate us now that he is president. I look at that as a positive, especially with nuclear-crazy countries like Iran and North Korea in our midst. If Bush or McCain were in office, we'd already be at war with Iran and preparing for war with North Korea. Both bad ideas.

  • That's another american right illusion. i am sure you have never even left the dustrict you leave, probably still living with your mum. Shut up and visit Canada, it is just ove the border and seefor yourself .

  • Hey moron i go to Canada to hunt and fish every year and i know all about the crappy health system in Canada moron!

    It sucks!

    If we get a garbage public option where will the Canadians go when they get sick they sure won't come to America in droves like they do now moron.

  • Huh? I am not promoting the Canadian

    system John. I was trying to explain that

    health care is a complicated deal. Also,

    if you believe everyone should be resp-

    onsible for their own health and buy their

    own insurance, or whatever your belief

    is, no big deal. Why am I a moron?

  • I can see how healthy you are. lol!!!! you go to canada to fish and hence you know all about the canadian health care system. how very smart. your measure of how good the US health care system of country is, by measuring how many canadians visit the Us for health care. Hmmm! would that mean the canadian drug industy is the best, because I know a lot of Americans but Canadian drugs :)) I expect another string of insults from you, but it still does not change the fact that our system is better.

  • What are you talking about? I am a

    Canadian. Did you not watch the video?

    I said in the video that alot of Canadians,

    including high level politicians go to the

    USA for their health care. I said all this

    in the video I made above. And what

    insults?????

    You ok bud?

  • Dude i was not was not refering to you. the person i was chatting to knows. A lot of politicians might go to america to for medical care. that does not indicate the health care system in america is better. A lot of people travel to eastern european countries for cosmetic sugery - that does not mean that the easter european comestic surgeoons are better? you have to look at it broadly. what works and what does not. u don't go saying one is rubbish...

  • ah!  No problemo dude ;)

  • @oneki I know many couldn't survive under the Canadian healthcare, so they went to the USA to get healthcare (available in Canada and some not available in Canada). They are thankful that USA was their system when the Canadian system failed them. Plus, the Canadian system sends many patients to USA hospitals because Canada lacks in supplies and technology or they are back-logged. Plus if you are uninsured foreigner, Canada will slam you financially, which is bad. "O Canada, O Canada"

  • @kodachromefilm i don't understand the premise of your statement " I know many couldn't survive under the Canadian healthcare". are you saying all the working class people are crossing over to america for healthcare? of course not. As with any system, there are pluses and minuses. If you are rich in canada and you want the best quickly and can pay for it then you can opt to go private / or travel to america, but majority of canadians use canadian healthcare and are pretty satisfied with it.

  • @oneki people will have to wait their turn if everyone will have access to healthcare. in america, options areu have no healthcare at all or will have to wait for it to be an emergency to have access (free) until you become stable or get a good samaritan to pay for you. if your premise is that america has better docs in "general medicine" than canada, i will again disagree. Most developed countries can and do have medicines at par with each other.difference is when it comes to specialised med

  • @oneki I am not saying "all the wotking class" are passing over into America. I am saying many from your population is passing over and also it's common that the canadian government is sending them over too, for many reasons. Examples: Cheaper for Canadian government to send them over, lack of technology to treat patients with certain conditions, and many have recieved better care from doctors that are not so restricted by government regulations.

  • @kodachromefilm i don't know where you are getting your information. but saying many is vague. that you have better technology is relative. as i mentioned, there are specialised areas of medicine where different countries will be better. yes, it is true that some people are sent to America, but it is not because your general medicine is better, it is for that particular specialty, you have more advanced knowledge and it is cheaper for what you call the canadian government ... cntd

  • @oneki By the way, my comment does not intend to be rude nor hateful. I respect much about Canada and the Canadians. There is much I do not respect about America and the Americans. So, with me, it's not "me against you" type of philosophy. Reality is, the taxpayer is paying for the system. Canadians are sent to America at profit of American health facilities, for several reasons I have mentioned earlier, at the expense of the Canadian taxpayer; not the system. The system does not create wealth.

  • @kodachromefilm for some reason have lost their jobs or is too lazy to get a job. the truth is this is the "give and take" of the system. the majority pays for the comfort of the society. there is general peace of mind of the people and if you are rich enough then you can get private health care, which is not astronomical because people have got basic cover already. yes, its the tax payer but you don't have to pay at point of use. Again +ves and -ves of both systems. none is better, just differ

  • @oneki My remarks do not intend to be hateful or rude. Do not think I am downing the Canadain system, only to hold the American system above all others; playing Yankee Doodle Dandy. I am not. But my remarks are truthful. There are many Canadians of different wealth classes coming over the border at the expense of the Canadian taxpayer. One more thing if room allows, the system is not free nor pays for anything. It's the taxpayer. The system takes from the taxpayer. Thus the system is not free.

  • @kodachromefilm I understand that you are not putting down the canadian system. my comment is more on the side of saying yours is the better system is not true. As for taxpayer or no taxpayer - of course i know its the taxpayer. Truth is that what socialist care is, the society pays for the care of all citizens not just those that can afford it. As a taxpayer, i don't go around hoping I don't fall ill becuase i have bought insurance a particular month, so does someone who for contd.

  • @kodachromefilm (which really is the canadian healthcare) that thinks it is cheaper for them to send these patients across the border, that create a whole new specialised hospital for a few hundred patients. Key thing here is that when waht you call the canadian government sends people to america, the canadian healthcare system which you seem to hate so much, actually pays for the patients. so your comment is more a plus of the canadian system than a minus.

  • @oneki I did not say I hate the Canadian system. You told me, I hate the system. You are thinking on the details too much. You need to look at the basics and reality rather than focus on minute details of people's intent. You are disecting it way too much. By that, you are not hearing what I am saying. That alone, shows me you are not understanding the reality of the system. By focusing on too much detail behind people's supposed intent leads to confusion in critical thinking. (cont.)

  • Sorry to insult you good luck with your garbage health care.

  • Its funny how liberals don't listen to you in America if we do get universal health care it will hurt harder than Canada because we have more people living here. Lines will be more than Canada and the taxes will come right then and now to pay for it.

  • Certainly you have a point. It's a 'bugger' to figure out.  One thing too. A little Capitalism in Health Care does allow alot of certain better procedures and medicine to be developed, wtih the competition aspect. But alot of people would say there should be no competition when it comes to 'medicine'. Again, a balancing act to be sure. And, universal health care for 300 million people would be a tough one, to say the least.
  • ...and of course, in Canada, a good heart surgeon may make 500 000 a year, but in the States, a good heart surgeon may make 5 000 000 a year. So guess where alot of Canadian trained doctors are going. Even my friend who is a 'surgical dentist' and does teeth and jaw and nose reconstruction is practising in the States. Trained here, now in Texas. Much more money working in the States than Canada.
  • Anywho...........it is a hard issue for me,

    Health Care. Many people believe it

    is the individuals responsibility, period.

    Many believe it is a social/universal

    issue, period. I just don't know what

    the right answer is. Here in Canada,

    where universal health care was started

    by Tommy Douglas, more than 50 years

    ago, it did start with small user fees.

  • Please dont rant in your post.

  • shall try to do better next time,

    thankyou :)

  • I agree. Which is why I stated, I don't know anyone smart enough to figure

    this out. Perhaps someone will come

    along. Have not yet seen any one qualified or on an IQ level able to do it.

    Maybe the solution will come from an

    average IQ person, with excessive common sence. I really don't know.

    It is sooooooooooo..... complicated :)

    And your comments just brought up

    more complications....good comments

    by the way.

  • I tend to agree Mareks..............

    However, you buy health care ins in States, it costs 10 000 per family. In

    Canada, where I am, it costs you

    about 10 000 in personal and hidden

    taxes. Kind of works out the same.

    Although better medicine in the States,

    obviously, as that is where canadians

    flock when they need hurried serious

    operations.

  • Good video Polish. It's a very complex problem. I'd like to think government intervention can make the system more efficient, less expensive w/out diminishing overall quality. I don't know if it can. Interesting getting a canucks perspective.

  • eh ;)

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