Onboard Ayrton Senna's Last Battle In Imola San Marino vs Alain Prost

[ledanmercier]

Senna the best ever!!!! against all dirty F1 politics

[tutiatambien]

Such a different story at 1:08 and 2:51 one year later. A sad one.

[fernandovogel]

@azapro 911 My dear, I could go on and on, but I would say that: watch the first lap of Donington in 1993 and see how, on conditions where the limit is the human skill and not the car performance, Senna passed through Prost as he was a back marker... Or take into account driving in Monaco with manual gear boxes, one-handed mostly (55 gear changes per lap). Senna won six times there and Prost simply stop winning after Senna got a decent car (except for 88, when Senna "gave" him the victory)

[fernandovogel]

@azpro911 More on the subject. In 1988, when both pilots had clean races, they finished 1-2 in the dominant McLarens. That happened 10 times. Seven victories to Senna... being one of Prost's victories the last race, when the championship was already decided. In 1989, things were again the same 13-2 poles to Senna, and when a Williams took the other pole, Senna classified in front of Prost. Eight times in the season both pilots finished the race: six victories to Senna and NONE to Prost

[fernandovogel]

@azapro911 Continuing with Senna's 1988 domination over Prost: Senna "gave" Prost a victory out of pure inexperience, after being 55 s in the lead and having qualified 1,5 s (!!!) faster. Pole positions count was an amazing 13-2 to Senna (one of the races Prost was better was his home GP). In UK Ferrari took the pole, but Senna still qualified in front of Prost. Which makes a 14-2. This kind of record is still very much used today to compare team mates performances.

[fernandovogel]

@azapro911 It also worth mentioning that the system is not that unfair, as it would prevent Senna from being champion just because he got worst luck than his team mate, as he dominated Prost in every single ocasion except for three races (one of them the last one, when the championship was already decided). Why bad luck? He had gear problems in one race and than fuel meter problems in two other races. Prost abandoned in England because his car settings war poor (his fault, as his team mate won)

[fernandovogel]

@azapro911 You clearly is a fan of the great Alain Prost. However, you forget to remember that out of his four titles, he got three with this formula. Actualy, his long awaited first title came just when this system was introduced. You can't say that he wasn't used to this scoring system... Also, in 1988 the car was so reliable and dominant that for the first time a significant points difference between discarding the worst results and not apeared (18 points vs 2-5 points before and after that)

[sargatanas88]

the power disadvantage is just dishuman.

[tor378a]

Brilliant (and clean) defense of his position by Ayrton. Clearly, he was not only at a significant power disadvantage to Prost but a handling disadvantage as well. Simply the best.

[azapro911]

The funny thing is that, in my opinion, both the '88 and '89 titles went to the wrong guy! Ayrton was robbed in '89 by that dodgy collision (which Prost COULD have avoided) and subsequent iffy disqualification for cutting the chicane (well done Balestre), but Alain was likewise robbed in '88 - not by Ayrton, but by that rediculous "best 11 scores count" rule. Fortunately, that was the only time that the second place guy outscored the World Champion, only to get shafted by that rule.

[hristoitchov]

@azapro911 You're not right about 88, because everyone knew about the rule (obviously) and they approached the whole season with that rule in mind. That means Senna knew where he needed to win and where he was safe to finish second, and likewise Prost knew what he had to do as well. You can't take away anything from Senna's title, for that rule existed for many years and Prost himself benefited from it to win his previous championships, as did so many other drivers. It's not a bad rule at all.

[azapro911]

@hristoitchov I know the rule was totally legal, but that didn't make it any less bogus. And I would have said that about any would-be champion shafted by that nonsense from 1950-1990. Fortunately, '88 was the only time it actually came into force (no, no-one else scored more points than a champion during a season BTW, so no other drivers benefitted from it). Imagine: "hey, congrats on scoring the most points, but some hard-earned results don't count, so give that trophy to this other guy". Pft.

[hristoitchov]

@azapro911 It has always played a role, there's no "shafting". I've participated in championships with such a rule and it's quite good actually, it gives you a chance to come back if you have 1-2 bad races. It's the same for everyone. You have to realize that the rule is not applied after the championship is over, but as soon as they reach the penultimate race, so the points table looks natural all the time. It's not like Prost had more points and was suddenly robbed from the title.

[azapro911]

@hristoitchov You're saying that a guy who has 14 good races and two terrible ones should win the title over someone who has raced consistently and just as well for 16 races. Look, I can see what you mean to a point: it CAN generate an exciting end to a championship. But it can also unfairly kill a championship for a guy who has been more consistent over a greater number of races. That simply isn't fair.

[hristoitchov]

@azapro911 I'm saying that a guy who knows about the rule would keep it in mind throughout the season and not pretend to be oblivious about it. Senna knew about it, Prost knew about it, there's no unfairness. You make it sound like they were caught out by surprise, lol. Like, if you know you need to finish 2nd to win a title but you finish 3rd and still expect to win it. It's totally fair to everyone because the whole championship campaign is built around it, race after race. You prepare for it.

[azapro911]

@hristoitchov To be honest, it's a very admirable attitude you have. So, if you'd been racing in Formula 1 25 years ago, you'd scored, say, two more points than your nearest rival after all 16 races and then lost it because you had to give up three or four results, then losing the richest prize in motorsport like that wouldn't bother you at all? Not because of a DQ, not because of an on-track penalty, but because basically three of your results were told to go to Hell. You'd be fine with that?

[hristoitchov]

@azapro911 As I told you already, I've done multiple championships with that scoring system. You never really notice the difference, because the system is applied as soon as you reach the penultimate race, so the points calculation makes sense all the time. Your (and everyone else's) worst result is removed immediately and thus you never bother to think about it. You plan for it well in advance, during the championship. Prost surely did so and so did Senna.

[dermot14]

ford cosworth 6 wins 1993 world champion 1994, and people say it was a bad engine, get real honda lovers.

[IncognitoFloyd]

You can easily see how much Senna's car was inferior than Prost one. Despite that Senna didn't ever let Prost pass.

Senna is by far the BEST DRIVER EVER!

[lucianoestivill]

@IncognitoFloyd Yes, He didn't let Prost pass, but He overtook him eventually, and did it twice. He overtook Senna, and after tyre change He this duel happened again, this time Prost overtaking both Senna and Hill in one single move (two guys at the same time) and finally won the race by 1 minute ahead, completing a perfect weekend with Pole Position, Fastest Lap and Victory. There's no need to disregard Prost to enhance Senna's skills (and I AM A BIG FAN OF AYRTON).

[yusha27]

Ayrton had this amazing ability to defend his position for as long as he could with an inferior car. He was absolutely fearless and had more than one racing line. Prost could not get past Ayrton Senna as he was lifting off through temburello because the track was damp!!! And Senna was flat out through Temburello.

Prost hated damp and wet tracks. RIP Ayrton.

Timeless and Fearless....

[DiscoR53]

Point by damn it!

[nagasako7]

That Ford engine was horrible compared to the previous Honda.

You can clearly see the Renault tow him in each straight and Senna couldn't do anything but hope to get each corner right.

[kallo182]

@nagasako7

Yes something like this is always sad in Motorsport, if an Car got much better Performance.

But Senna Drive a lot of Years in the Fastest Car of the Field, so now he got the Chance to see like it looks from the other Side....

[ilgnah]

@kallo182 actually, in 7 of 10 of senna's seasons, he did not have the fastest car, not to mention getting the pole in 40% of his races.

he was just that amazing. and i'll quote jalopnik on this one:

[ilgnah]

@ilgnah jalopnik dot com/5823354/ayrton-sennas-sing­ular-relentless-magic

[lostwill86]

Senna was just fearless