amazing how he leaves out personal contributions via cash or insurance payments about how much money is spent on healthcare sayings almost all is medicare/medicaid.The army, and yes even congress is funded by government, To me everyone should have at least what the government has.But Ill just sit happy in my northern country where we care about people and take care of everything and noone no matter how much money jumps the cue.
he made some good points. but cellphones are a bad analogy, because 14$ upfront makes you obligated to pay hundreds more through the 'deals' you're linked to with the service providers.
@theunlitshadow I mite not can spell liar sometimes but I know when I hear B.S. so I am smarter then you. Kiss my ass you rude Repubican cock sucker people like make America not the the greatest country on Earth and the Repubicans make it that way.
@sonofatiger hahaha....so, we've decided that you're like 12? Without the balance of republicans and democrats, our country wouldn't be anywhere close to where it is today. And I'm not republican lol
HE IS TOTALLY RIGHT we gotta find any excuse possible to defend capitalism so that insurance companies can continue to take advantage of people. i like this guy , what an idiot bottom line is it is immoral to make profit off of healthcare
@transcendtheages if i shop often then i would know he is right, simple economics would suggest that if people had a universal access to healthcare than that would bring prices down limited demand causes limited supply therefor you have inflation of prices in healthcare. you give it for free "taxes" than the competition would be over quality and not money, everything revolves around the dollar with these conservatives
@transcendtheages One doesn't get more if something is free, one just TRIES to get more. Just try an experiment to see. Have two entrances to a movie; one free and one where one has to pay. Guess which will have the longest line?
Less than half of Americans pay income tax; how the hell can that be construed to be paying taxes for the service?
@4GooMan yeah your totally right , what was I thinking , lets keep all the fucking poor,jobless, idiots out of the line that way all us cool people can mosey on through because the line is shorter. you know its not thier fault they are poor but fuck emm any ways. RIGHT?
It's simple free market at its best... I build homes so let me explain like this... lets say you have a house you want built and I give you a bid... Then you get other bids... Now you can decide what bid best fits your budget, time frame, ect... Thats free market... Now look at medicare and medicade, doctors charge what they want, they know they will get it (no compitition), the consumer doesnt care what it cost (they dont pay for it), and because there is no competition, quality goes down...
@tazzmangotit competition = alienation, competition is the reason healthcare is as bad as it is, competition is not a noble reason for quality. And as for doctors charging what they want , if we had universal healthcare you dont think thier would be way more government intervention and regulation to make sure hospitals are doing thier job considering the tax payers are the ones footing the bill the goverment stands for the people not the private sector, the private sector stands for the dollar
@transcendtheages It doesnt guarantee quality, it ensures bad doctors will either have to improve or shut down, That translates into better quality. As for your arguement that compitition is the reason healthcare is as bad as it is, explain, cause that makes no sense... Are you saying that by competing at something you become worse at it? Not every team in football wins the super bowl each year but by competing they work hard to become the best they can if they want to win... No alienation there
@transcendtheages As for your arguement on universal healthcare... So we all need to have money taken from us to pay for everyones healthcare (even those that intentionally destroy their health with drugs, alcahol, junk food, cigerattes,ect) and then more money taken to pay for "more government intervention and regulation" so we can be sure our "healthcare" isnt being manipulated by doctors that couldnt care less about us patients so long as they get paid? There are definatly better alternatives
@tazzmangotit yes there are alot of things in america that are already socialized like police fire department education roads now if everyone had to pay a private corporation for the things ive just listed dont you think it would hurt the economy it would because people wouldnt be able to afford it.But they would be forced to to survive same principle with healthcare.Doctors dont care right, and why is that its because they do it for money (competition ) now you see how competition = alienation
@tazzmangotit Your points are well made. But before demonizing doctors (who spend 10 years of their life learning before they make a nickel), I'd focus on the lazy consumer who has no vested interest in finding a good deal, and damn sure doesn't feel obligated to be a part of any preventative measures.
Folks also expect the technology of today, but only want to pay the prices of the 60's. Our technology has outstripped our ability to pay.
Ran Paul and his brand of Capitalism is a total failure,he like his father are actually Fascist in disguise,people have to have less than half a brain to believe in these crooks.
@sarsanch You are confusing Capitalism with the Corporatist system we've had for a long time. Capitalism would be a system of no regulation from govt. The only regulation would be competition. As far as fascism. Everywhere Fascism has been tried, they first when through Socialism to get there.
@sarsanch according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary. Socialism is 1. any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. 2a. a system of society or group living in which there is no private property. 2b. a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.
@sarsanch 3. a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism an ddistringuished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.
@sarsanch "Fascist"? Mussolini, who invented the term and the system, defined fascism as the union of the state and corporations. Not too much difference from PrezBO's socialized medicine.
Rand Paul is a complete liar who has no idea what the poor, elderly, disabled, & middle class go through in this country. Check out the qualifications for medicaid, for example, you have to make less than $700 a month to qualify. Where's his proof that "illegals" (as he calls them) are calculated into the 46 million uninsured? This guy is so out of touch with reality it isn't funny. He serves the cons well with the attitude that only the rich deserve to live.
You have no idea why our health care costs are going through the roof. Rand is absolutely right. Lack of competition. Learn some economic laws. Turn off the Tv, stop watching CNN, MSN and reading the NYT. What a joke.
With similar health & social issues (obesity, diabetes, immigration, poverty, etc.) you can easily compare and contrast the USA and the UK (free-market dominated* healthcare vs nationalised provision & taxation, respectively.)
@ActionCameraReview How much in the UK is spent on treating the obese? Plastic surgery? Sexually transmitted diseases? Hypochondriacs seeking attention? People who don't want to endure a little pain? Organ transplants? Power Chairs? Drunkards and dope addicts? Smokers? High tech diagnostic equipment?
How many doctors are graduating from British medical schools? How many remain in the UK?
Free-mkt evangelists like Dr Paul never explain how the self-interest of a doctor can align with the best interests of their patients. It's pertinent (& worrying) that he admires champion of selfishness, Ayn Rand.
What compels the Dr to provide his patients with care that's in their best interests as opposed to dubious treatments that give him greatest profit?
With all the unnecessary but profitable treatments being inflicted on the US public no wonder their healthcare costs so much.
@ActionCameraReview The "unnecessary but profitable treatments" you complain of (and rightly so) are not a product of true free-mkt competition. It is largely driven by 2 factors: 3rd party payers (insurance or gov't) that insulate the patient/consumer from the actual costs of treatments, and out-of-control malpractice lawsuits that combine with 3rd party payment to encourage over-treatment.
@rmcdaniel423 Oops, should that'd be "know what good food tastes like".
I've suggested a plausible (albeit cynical) reason for why US healthcare costs are so high. I don't really follow the mechanism for the first of the 2 factors that you propose drive up US med costs. Are the gov't & insurance companies made to pay over the odds? If they're being duped by the medical profession, who's cynical now?
Sure, malpractice lawsuits are costly, but what's the data you've seen on their costs?
@ActionCameraReview Why would a Dr. provide care that's in the patient's interest? To ask that question is to be overly cynical of medical professionals. It's insulting. But let's suppose they're all a bunch of greedy jackals, as you imply. The incentive that prevents the "dubious treatment" you fear is the same incentive that keeps restaurants from feeding you garbage. Sure, some do. But it's only because some folks are content to buy garbage. Would YOU pay for dubious services?
@rmcdaniel423 No offence should be taken. I didn't imply ALL are greedy jackals, I just suspect that malpractice may go a long way to explain the massive funding gap between 15.2% vs. 8.4%. I would love to hear a compelling alternative theory & to think all was good in the world!
The comparison with restaurants is totally erroneous. I can cook, what good food tastes like & I notice a tummy bug the next day - How can I know whether medical treatment X was better than cheaper medical treatment Y.
Put down the Marxist rhetoric. It's SOCIALISM that doesn't work! Competition DOES lower prices. The fact that you would argue otherwise demonstrates YOUR ignorance. Dr. Paul's lasik surgery example clearly demonstrates this, along with thousands of other examples throughout the history of mankind. Your ideology is wrong, get over it, and move on!
If we have "free universal health care" who is going to provide it? Do you think doctors, nurses, x-ray techs, cna's, radiologists, and the millions of people who work in health care are going to work for free?! Maybe you (if you even have a job) should work for free. Why don't you ask GM to make you a free car while your at it,
or Sony to make you a PS3 and Flat Screen for free. Get a clue. Read some highschool level economics then maybe you can have an opinion!
@punkerleader I live in a country (Australia) with Universal Healthcare, & strictly speaking it's not 'free'. We pay for our system collectively through taxes and something called the 'medicare levy'. Even so, it still makes it very affordable for everyone to receive healthcare.
Prices NEVER lower through competition, its just never happend in the history of mankind.
His cell phone example shows his ignorance.
Cell phones are ALOT more expensive to make then what we pay for them, but the cost is externalized by cheap foreign labour and raw materials extracted in countries with 0 regulation.
You wanna send patients to Bangalore for operations?
I consider RP to be smart...so I must conclude that he is being disingenuous (at best) with his cell phone example...yes a 3rd party payment system is one issue...but he is leaving out the fact that a cell phone is a commodity and that it makes up less than 1% of a the ave person's income; the comparison b/t a cell phone and open heart surgery is ridiculous...having said that...there are some procedures that are standardized and should be cheaper...
AceClo below...is a idiot. Why is it America has the highest health care cost..I am pretty sure it is b/c the US already subsidizes it too much. AceClo, go to school for economics and then you will realize...America's health care cost are so high b/c the gov't subsidizes them. I know a teacher that worked for 25 years and then retired. He had a heart attack and lost his legs. 5yrs later he was told he should get new legs he did not need. They cost $50,000 and sit on a shelf. Do the math.
look up: Total health expenditure per capita, US Dollars
Why is it america spends the most? Sir with Universal health care, you make purchases in bulk, you buy for an entire nation right. No matter how much capitalism you bring in, you cant compete with lets say france, uk or canada who are buying in bulk for millions of people.
One thing though, until just last week I didn't have any health insurance. My job didn't offer it and even if it did, I may not have been able to afford it. I am one of the working Americans that work 40+ hrs a week at a low paying job that doesn't offer health insurance. I don't qualify for gov't medical care either. So, what I'd like to ask him is, what about someone like me? I do know that tort reform it is supposed to lower the cost and then maybe these employers wld offer health ins.
The federal government getting involved in health care is bad.
Bureaucrats are and have always been inefficient. Let private companies compete and then us Americans can choose how we want to proceed- instead of being forced into a terrible arrangement.
So please assholes, get those fingers ready, and argue with me, I'm bored, bitter lonely, and to be quite honest with you guys, I really don't give jack shit about healthcare, however I don't mind flooding forums with 300 pages of text just prove a stupid point.
Is it not essential for a person to have food? Is it not essential that a person be clothed? Is it not essential that people have shelter?
If you idiots think healthcare should be 100% free of that "evil" competition, then why in the fuck should we bother paying for other essentials? It worked out well in Russia didn't it? Tell me how healthcare is any different. You hypocrites have no logic or understanding of economics whatsoever, and don't understand the value of choices capitalism gives you
Plus the idea of competition between those companies is ridicule. First because of the amount of money in that you only going to have huge companies. These companies simple can fix the price of your insurance and that's it. There is no space for real competition when huge corporations take control. But if i was rich the US healthcare would be the best in the world...
The analogy of health-care versus cellphone is wrong because the production of a cellphone is totally outsource from componentes, design, software almost everything. The Cost of Medicare in Canada is going up not because the government is not controlling but because the cost of medication and things that are not people relating are going up. So the Doctor side is fix in Canada. In US you have a higher medical cost + a higher medication cost.
This country(USA capitalism addicts) believes in being the number one in everything make money like crazy and that's what runs this country. This country made a bussiness out of people being sick and that's the bottom line. Yohana Salk...invented the shot against polio....and what he did....sold the patten?...no..he gave it away to the people. For the people and by the people that's how this country should be run. Help fucking eaaaaaachother and stop all the bla bla bla...we live only once..
"This country made a "bussiness" out of people being sick"
So are you saying doctors are selfish because they don't want to go to school for 10 years of their life, to make jack shit?
I hate to break this to you, but the whole world is a business, even the government, however the government is an illegal business that doesn't have to follow competitive rules.
You know what this country also made a business out of?
its funny how some here disbelieve Dr. Rand Paul, when the statistics are so clear. Most people who are uninsured are either 1. in an income bracket in which they should be able to afford it (if they learn the old fashioned practice of SAVING) 2. are eligible for government insurance (medicaid) 3. or are illegal.
Its not our health care system's fault or the fact that its "too capitalistic" that the above are uninsured
So stop blaming capitalism and get government out of medical care.
I love how your listening to a doctor who is probably rich because of the system and you think he's giving an unbias criticial assertion on healthcare! of course hes going to stick with the system, he's obviously more of a buisnessman/entrepeneur than a doctor. I'd rather have someone treating me who is happy to have one mercedes rather than three, who cares more about helping people than lining his pockets. WAKE UP AMERICA.
I'm undecided on the capitalism vs socialism debate in general, as well as the healthcare debate specifically, but I have to say that I respect Rand Paul's education, intelligent argumentation, and civility. I wish there were more conservatives like him, with a voice in our gov.
Yes free-market is great, but certainly not in healthcare. Millions upon millions of people are continuously denied certain medical attention because of their income and so on and universal healthcare will guarantee any medical attention. It's for the greater good of America. People are too stingy to share their paycheck with other helpless human beings, we are so selfish. It's disgusting to be American and realize that we act in this way.
@trailw No, you don't get, "any kind of medical attention" in a country with universal healthcare. Making it "free" means that you increase demand. Therefore it has to be rationed to control costs and there are long lines for certain procedures. This is why countries like Canada have a whole illegal industry of private healthcare providers. The government turns a blind eye because the universal healthcare system can't meet the demand. America doesn't not have a free-market system.
@whiff1962 wow, separation of medicine and state? You're joking right? Medicine and religion shouldn't even be compared in that manner. Religious practice is a basic human right that is granted to all American citizens; it is a privilege. Medicine and the guarantee of being able to receive adequate medical attention is a necessity of life that shouldn't be a marketing aspect at all.
@trailw Part of your response to whiff1962 "Medicine and the guarantee of being able to receive adequate medical attention is a necessity of life that shouldn't be a marketing aspect at all."
Essential is a meaningless word in the healthcare debate. Food, clothing, housing, and even cars could be "essential", but we wouldn't want the government providing those things for everyone now would we? Look how well it worked in Russia, Cuba, and every other failed communist society you dipshit.
I do see the doctor as playing a ritual role in society; the practice of medicine, with its social prestige and power, in a secular age, would ask no less. The point I am trying to bring home is this notion of the Therapeutic state: the state and medicine; no less than church and state, until fairly recently in time. However, we live in an age of medicine (science), and the "religious" vocabulary might have changed, but the function is the same. Read Thomas Szasz.
I look at the issue with bureacratic medicine as part of, what I would call, the "Therapeutic matrix", not much unlike the alligning of Church and state of old. The only apparent change is comes by of "sacred" symbols; and the shift from the ritualistic of religion, to that of the technical, in medicine. The clergy, the medico-scientists, "dispense" with the sacraments of "health". So, Dr. Szasz, et. al., is correct in his assessments of medicine and politics. Welcome to the Therapeutic state.
So, were supposed to allow healthcare to become some type of marketing program that creates competition? This would continue to allow HMO's to receive absurd amounts of revenue (while they refuse surgical procedures to millions) and more and more people will also be unable to afford healthcare. Proper healthcare isn't some type of marketing program, it's an absolute necessity that should be guaranteed to EVERYONE. The thought that Rand Paul wants to do this frightens me and it's actually quite
@trailw How about popular protest? You should be aware of the power of the pocket book, too, right? Really, silly rabbit, you ought to show more favor in the power of people's pocketbooks! And as I see it, whose beneficient hand really engendered this mess? You really show your political stripes, and flourishing optimism in human nature and free-marketism.
How about popular protest? You should be aware of the power of the pocket book, too, right? Really, silly rabbit, you ought to show more favor in the power of people's pocketbooks! Whose "beneficient" hand really engendered this mess? You really show your political stripes, as well as the liberal's flourishing optimism in human nature and free-marketism.
i dont have health care but im only 22 so i feel i dont need it. Now that obamacare is active I have to buy into goverment care and if I dont i get penalized on my taxes waddfuck somthing about that doesnt sound right
@bc2pr0182 He belongs to the National Socialist party of pre-war Germany? If that is the case then Identify one thing he has said that the Nazis supported.
@bc2pr0182 how bout you go do somthing productive instead of trying to slander someone =) donate to a good cause or go help out at a soup kitchen. Sitting on you fat ass and talking shit wont do one bit a good keyboard warrior
Bringing capitalism into healthcare... AKA Doctors end up piled in dept after med school and have no choice but to only offer medical care the very wealthy. Under this man's plan more than half of the country will be uninsured.
Medical resources are diverted from providing basic cares to those in need to providing unnecessary procedures to the opulent... AKA...
poor person gets cancer and goes untreated while a rich person has plastic surgery. That is capitalism in healthcare.
Good luck today, Rand! I'm not in your district, or your state for that matter, but I've contributed to your campaign and am pulling for you. We need more sensible people in the senate.
If we vote enough people like rand paul, they would abolish medicare. libertarians like rand see medicare as an economic burden than a social responsiblity to our seniors.
He said that it is illegal for doctors to offer a lower price for medicare/medicaid patients. That is true, but the flip side to that is that they can't charge more. There are more and more medical clinics that simply can't afford to see those patients because they don't get paid enough to see them. The free market would make the costs go up.
Cell phones cost 15 dollars because they are made in China, should we go there for health care?
@chrisginzton Just look at any industry where gov't gets involved; prices go up. Look at medicine, but then look at higher education. Student loans drive up prices since there's so much "easy" money floating around. In industries where gov't stays out and doesn't regulate prices, prices drop over time, the computer industry is a good example. They found solutions to deliver quality and lower prices, and they did it without gov't. We've tried gov't involvement, lets try something else.
@mikejadoti Look at the BP oil spill. The free market isn't on our side. It is on the side that makes them the most money. I don't like our healthcare system. I, fortunately am insured and being treated fairly by the system, but there are so many that aren't and I don't want to leave them out. Everyone deserves to be healthy. I don't see profit minded free market driven healthcare to care about the people who can't pay.
@chrisginzton I don't disagree that everyone deserves the *opportunity* to be healthy, but there are tons of options open to lower prices (like getting gov't involvement out) before sticking the expense to everyone. And oil is anything but free market, gov't involvement is rampant, most notably the damages cap and our gov'ts active refusal to allow outside help by other nations.
@mikejadoti You're saying that if Medicaid/Medicare didn't exist there would be options for those who can't afford the thousands it costs for healthcare these days?
I'm in a unique position because I was just diagnosed with an autoimmune disease which requires monthly injections. Those injections cost $14,000 thousand a month. My insurance is covering a large percentage of that. Everyone who buys insurance from my insurance company is paying for that. How is that better than a public option?
@chrisginzton This is difficult to discuss in 500 character spaces. However, I'm sorry to hear about your disease, however, you bought a policy that accounted for that risk, it was in the price, and so did your co-workers and others in the pool. Do you think expanding the pool to include everybody without expanding the cost to include everybody is going to work? No. Find ways to lower the cost of medicine, and that involves getting gov't out of it.
I like the guy, he seems nice but he was wrong on a couple key points. He said that it is illegal for doctors to offer a lower price for medicare/medicaid patients. That is true, but the flip side to that is that they can't charge more. There are more and more medical clinics that simply can't afford to see those patients because they don't get paid enough to see them. The free market would make the costs go up.
@chrisginzton Bull, your conclusion doesn't flow from your arguments. He pointed out a great example, look at areas of medicine where the gov't is NOT involved, and see what happened. He cites LACIK eye surgery, where gov't is not involved, the price has gone down because providers COMPETE. In the vast of medicine, providers do NOT compete, they charge the full amount that Medicare/caid will pay, and since they can't charge less for cash, there's no competition.
he seems to be overlooking the fact that doctors and healthcare providers play a huge part in healthcare cost inflations which imo is what directly makes it controversial to heap onto national and taxpayer debt. If cost control is taken care of first we can move to single payer with less of an impact on quality of service and backlash from conservatives who foam at the mouth about taxes.
by simply making the satment about dentist in scrubs, and fitting you for your contacts.... that gives the precivable positiotn that you indeed have a wealth of knowlage about the syste the he dose not posess
???!?! who is going to shop around for a doctor in the middle of a health crisis? people pay cash?!? are you kidding me? there is no time for competition, health care is not a commodity. as for eye sight, nothing is pre-paid by insurance if you are average middle class..... ridiculousness words fm Rand Paul all obsfuscation.... medical savings account? are you kidding? you are privileged and you have no idea what you are talking about.
@mandi7and10 B.S., competition drives down prices, period. And you don't shop around during an emergency, you go to the ER. You can, however, shop around when you're healthy and find a good doctor on reasonable cash terms, IF you were allowed to do so. If they accept medicaid, you're stuck paying the rate that medicaid is billed at, it's illegal to charge less for cash, even though they get less headache and cashflow problems doing so. I would love to pay cash for my medical needs.
"Health care in America is lousy, but who is losing out are the patients, and not me, so I'm pretty cool with things the way they are, really." What a creep.
Exactly! We should make getting health care a compititin so our great doctors can make more money. Just think, if we had universal healthcare doctors would have to take less money to provide all people with proper healthcare. It sends shivers down my spine just thinking about it. Those GD libs are traying to distribut everything, her's a hint Distribute my work ethic, not my wealth.jk, he's full of shit.
@wdhoctor Whether or not he's right about health care isn't really the point. The government intervention into health care is A giant fraud. The bill known as health care reform was written by insurance company lobbyist that could give two shits about you seeing a doctor. The point was to mandate that you buy their crap insurance. The kind that does have death panels deciding your fate. Anything Rand brings up is bound to be picked apart by A controlled media and the dupes who parrot it.
@Drumvain Well said. If anyone believes that this healthcare bill is anything more than a thinly disguised way to pay off those in health insurance, they're kidding themselves.
@wdhoctor probably the most ignorant stament one could make.... the more people you put under one doctor the lower the qulity of service will be, plus real competition promots lower costs sooo your statment is invalid
@GibsonGuy93 how so? i'm not making any claims about my knowledge of the system, therefore making a presupposition about his knowledge in comparison to mine would be fundamentally naïve on your part.
I know one thing that government healthcare shouldn't exist.... With government it will get worse....Very soon will have shitty healthcare which will be accessable to everybody! Good luck with that..... Obama is a communist who denies that he is one. In addition, to that will have Arabs who will control USA
We are at A crossroads where we will either see liberty or tyranny rise. Rand Paul & his father may be our last hope before A peaceful revolution becomes impossible. Support them and all true patriots that have the guts to stand against this open threat to the future of free humanity.
This guy has no clue. Doctors can't offer a lower price with private insurances either! Doctors CANNOT offer lower prices, because hospitals and insurance companies dictate prices. NOT DOCTORS. Med schools put students in enormous debt. Malpractice insurance can be 50K per year. The myth here, is that there is capitalism in the health business. Sorry folks, that died a long time ago. A med-savings account is a joke. Even a mild problem will cost 100,000 dollars. Your piddly account wont help.
Rand Paul 2010 which is NOW people! Im doing my part, same as we did for his "Taxpayers best friend" father. This time lets not let the controlled MSM get away with the lies they continually espouse. Lets get some real politicians in DC for a real CHANGE we can believe in!
I believe that we need less government and we need tort reform. When I was younger my Mother used to take to doctors and she was charged reasonable prices. Ever sense the law was put in to protect the citizen in suits it left an avenue for abuse, therefore doctors have to raise prices to offset the negative aspect.
Yeah, let's have sick people shopping around for doctors. Great idea. Maybe accident victims could shop around for the cheapest ambulance, and hospitals, too.
That third of uninsured who make more than 50k may still not be able to afford insurance if they have pre-existing conditions or are older than 40 as the premiums were so high.
Thank goodness the health care reform bill passed.
@benjiebr0074l , it sounds that way on first look, but the expense of doctors and hospitals having to deal with thousands of insurance companies instead of a dozen now, would add layers of paper pushers we would all pay for.
Many of those out of state insurance companies with lower prices on closer examinations have a lot less covered in their policies. It would take a lawyer to be able to examine the fine print and tell your if policy a and b are actually alike.
@PissedFechtmeister, you are wrong. Why do you think the health care reform bill was so many pages, if it wasn't doing anything to lower costs? Why do you think the very wealthy insurance industry fought it tooth and nail, spending hundreds of millions of dollars to lobby against it?
Either read the bill or go to a reliable source to read highlights. AARP had a pretty good summary.
Or admit you work for and/or own health insurance stock.
@sophiemarie49 I've read the summaries from the liberal news sources. By eliminating pre-existing conditions, requiring everybody to have insurance, eliminating annual caps, etc. the libs think that the price will go down. It won't. All the reforms are going to drive prices up. The insurance companies love this because the government is going to subsidize it all. This is a health insurance bailout, not a health care reform law.
@sophiemarie49 "Wealthy insurance companies" I've never heard anyone using the word "wealthy" to describe a corporation. Liberals love to blame the "rich people." Obviously the insurance companies would fight it because they realize they will be eliminated overnight. BTW, why do you think pharmaceutical companies lobby for the bill? Also, if you own mutual funds, you also own stock in those companies. The U.S. already spends the most of health care as a % of GPD and this is the problem.
@BarackHOsama, I would think you could understand the distinction 'wealthy ins. companies' vs. companies not making out so good. I can't believe I'm explaining this, but wealthy means they have a lot of assets vs. debt. Sheesh!
Why would ins. companies be eliminated overnight?
I personally don't think medical insurance should be a for profit industry. The idea that some desk jockey will deny treatment to keep profits up just stinks.
'Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness', not profits.
@sophiemarie49 No buddy, businesses are usually described as being "profitable" or "not profitable." "Wealthy" is used to describe individuals, not businesses. Why would insurance companies be eliminated? BWAHAHA! Profit is the most effective way to drive innovation, improve quality, and reduce costs. How is having it controlled by bureaucrats any better? It would lead to waste and corruption because they are not governed by competition.
@BarackHOsama, oh, so now because 'usually' something is described with a certain word, that is now the rule? Hmmm
Ins. companies won't be eliminated even if a public option is ever passed, and certainly not with the current passed bill. I should say, the smart ones won't be. The greediest ones who won't tighten their belts, give their customers good service, will find it harder to find customers. But isn't that the beauty of the free market, the smart survive?
@BarackHOsama , and on your last point if you believe that regulation to protect the public from shoddy, unsafe or no-service service are government 'control' would you want to eat in restaurants if there was no sanitation inspections, would you want to hire that electrician if he didn't have to pass a rigorous test and training to get his license, would you want to share the road with other drivers if no license was required, the list is endless.
@sophiemarie49 I sure wouldn't want to pay more auto insurance to make life easier for those with multiple at fault accidents.
Health maintenance is not the same as insuring against calamities. If you're not paying at least $2,000 a year for maintenance, you're not getting insurance, you're getting subsidized.
Do you expect your auto insurance to pay your fuel and oil change bills?
@4GooMan Well said! Many people think that health insurance should cover EVERYTHING under the sun, and it shouldn't. They should budget their healthcare just like they budget their cellphone and cable bill. It's horrible to see people petitioning for free healthcare because they "can't afford it" when they sport a new iPhone on their hip... it's about priorities, and if the HC bill stays law, it won't be long before something else is deemed "necessary" that we should all subsidize for others
@BarackHOsama, your idea that profit is the best way to 'drive innovation, improve quality and reduce costs', is ignoring history. When the free market is not regulated the greediest rule, without those 'pesky' regulations to prevent worker abuse, unsafe working conditions, using poor ingredients, buying out competitors for a monopoly, etc.
Read about manuf. in 1800's. The same conditions exist in countries today w/ot regs. And they are not known for quality products, quite the opposite.
@sophiemarie49 Behind every monopoly there has been government regulation. Look at Bell System (AT&T). Bell was taken over by the government around WWI and rates were controlled and subsidized. Why do you think I get dropped calls every now and then and see little improvement? Why are there a few wireless oligopolies? Gov. control = inflating costs. Private control = the internet, the automobile, etc. Isn't it amazing how unregulated computer industry has lowered costs exponentially within years
@sophiemarie49 Behind every monopoly there has been government regulation. Look at Bell System (AT&T). Bell was taken over by the government around WWI and rates were controlled and subsidized. Why do you think I get dropped calls every now and then and see little improvement? Why are there a few wireless oligopolies? Gov. control = inflating costs. Private control = the internet, the automobile, etc. Isn't it amazing how unregulated computer industry has lowered costs exponentially within years
@sophiemarie49 Behind every monopoly there has been government regulation. Look at Bell System (AT&T). Bell was taken over by the government around WWI and rates were controlled and subsidized. Why do you think I get dropped calls every now and then and see little improvement? Why are there a few wireless oligopolies? Gov. control = inflating costs. Private control = the internet, the automobile, etc. Isn't it amazing how unregulated computer industry has lowered costs exponentially within years
@sophiemarie49 Behind every monopoly there has been government regulation. Look at Bell System (AT&T). Bell was taken over by the government around WWI and rates were controlled and subsidized. Why do you think I get dropped calls every now and then and see little improvement? Why are there a few wireless oligopolies? Gov. control = inflating costs. Private control = the internet, the automobile, etc. Isn't it amazing how unregulated computer industry has lowered costs exponentially within years
@sophiemarie49 Behind every monopoly there has been government regulation. Look at Bell System (AT&T). Bell was taken over by the government around WWI and rates were controlled and subsidized. Why do you think I get dropped calls every now and then and see little improvement? Why are there a few wireless oligopolies? Gov. control = inflating costs. Private control = the internet, the automobile, etc. Isn't it amazing how unregulated computer industry has lowered costs exponentially within years
@sophiemarie49 What have you done to form a cooperative to provide medical insurance? It can be done, but it's not going to be the panacea you might think.
If you want unlimited coverage, pay the extra premium to get it. Just like auto and homeowner insurance.
Pursuit of happiness doesn't equate to a free lunch. Pursuit means actively working for something, not expecting somebody else to pay for it.
@hobatu If all those "things are better" in France, how can you expect improvements in efficiency to magically drop the costs in the US to those in France? When Americans decide to stop being a part of the problem with their health and start being a part of the solution, you may well have a basis for recommending the French system.
@hobatu Being from Latvia, I assume you have spent a lot of time studying the French system. As a European, are you aware of how little the average American contributes to his/her own well being health wise? Are you also aware of what it costs to "care for" a population that is overweight, with plugged arteries, plagued with near epidemics of venereal disease and expects organ transplants for a few miserable more years of life?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
This is crazy. Sick people are going to shop around?
As far as those making more than 50k a year, how many of them have pre-existing conditions or are over 50, so they are priced out of the market?
No one is talking about throwing over our existing health care. The new health care bill doesn't put insurance companies out of business. This crazy rumor is a far right one.
Free market with little fed regulations brought us this mess we have now. Thank goodness the health care reform bill passed.
amazing how he leaves out personal contributions via cash or insurance payments about how much money is spent on healthcare sayings almost all is medicare/medicaid.The army, and yes even congress is funded by government, To me everyone should have at least what the government has.But Ill just sit happy in my northern country where we care about people and take care of everything and noone no matter how much money jumps the cue.
moocowdad 1 month ago
@moocowdad You mean, government should have at least what everyone else has, right?
streetcrazykenny 3 weeks ago
he made some good points. but cellphones are a bad analogy, because 14$ upfront makes you obligated to pay hundreds more through the 'deals' you're linked to with the service providers.
aresres 1 month ago
@aresres Yeah, I think cell phone companies are willing to take a loss on the phone in exchange for a contract.
Vondur 19 hours ago
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4:07 i didn't see capitalism do a much better job of distributing water during katrina. oh, and one more thing...bush was in charge.
LibertyArtist 1 month ago
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LibertyArtist 1 month ago
Doctors need to stop over billing.
sonofatiger 2 months ago
Mr. Paul, I respect you, but I find absolutely nothing wrong with MY healthcare. Get a Canadian model, it works
powerpunch180 3 months ago
What a fucking lier he just want to make more money for his self.
sonofatiger 3 months ago
@sonofatiger Lol you can't even spell liar right, much less make an educated argument against him :/
theunlitshadow 3 months ago
@theunlitshadow I mite not can spell liar sometimes but I know when I hear B.S. so I am smarter then you. Kiss my ass you rude Repubican cock sucker people like make America not the the greatest country on Earth and the Repubicans make it that way.
sonofatiger 3 months ago
@sonofatiger hahaha....so, we've decided that you're like 12? Without the balance of republicans and democrats, our country wouldn't be anywhere close to where it is today. And I'm not republican lol
theunlitshadow 3 months ago
@sonofatiger You sound like the typical freeloader/moocher who wants something for nothing.
4GooMan 2 months ago
HE IS TOTALLY RIGHT we gotta find any excuse possible to defend capitalism so that insurance companies can continue to take advantage of people. i like this guy , what an idiot bottom line is it is immoral to make profit off of healthcare
transcendtheages 4 months ago
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I'm sorry but you are simply uneducated
tazzmangotit 4 months ago
Rand Paul is definatly right... If you shop very often then you know this...
tazzmangotit 4 months ago
@tazzmangotit that doesnt make sense
transcendtheages 4 months ago
@transcendtheages if i shop often then i would know he is right, simple economics would suggest that if people had a universal access to healthcare than that would bring prices down limited demand causes limited supply therefor you have inflation of prices in healthcare. you give it for free "taxes" than the competition would be over quality and not money, everything revolves around the dollar with these conservatives
transcendtheages 3 months ago
@transcendtheages Common sense dictates that when something is free, people want more of it.
Everything revolves around "gimme" for you parasites.
4GooMan 2 months ago
@4GooMan how do you get more of something like healthcare if its free that sounds stupid, and second its not free if taxes pay for it
transcendtheages 2 months ago
@transcendtheages One doesn't get more if something is free, one just TRIES to get more. Just try an experiment to see. Have two entrances to a movie; one free and one where one has to pay. Guess which will have the longest line?
Less than half of Americans pay income tax; how the hell can that be construed to be paying taxes for the service?
4GooMan 2 months ago 2
@4GooMan yeah your totally right , what was I thinking , lets keep all the fucking poor,jobless, idiots out of the line that way all us cool people can mosey on through because the line is shorter. you know its not thier fault they are poor but fuck emm any ways. RIGHT?
transcendtheages 1 month ago
It's simple free market at its best... I build homes so let me explain like this... lets say you have a house you want built and I give you a bid... Then you get other bids... Now you can decide what bid best fits your budget, time frame, ect... Thats free market... Now look at medicare and medicade, doctors charge what they want, they know they will get it (no compitition), the consumer doesnt care what it cost (they dont pay for it), and because there is no competition, quality goes down...
tazzmangotit 3 months ago
@tazzmangotit competition = alienation, competition is the reason healthcare is as bad as it is, competition is not a noble reason for quality. And as for doctors charging what they want , if we had universal healthcare you dont think thier would be way more government intervention and regulation to make sure hospitals are doing thier job considering the tax payers are the ones footing the bill the goverment stands for the people not the private sector, the private sector stands for the dollar
transcendtheages 3 months ago
@transcendtheages It doesnt guarantee quality, it ensures bad doctors will either have to improve or shut down, That translates into better quality. As for your arguement that compitition is the reason healthcare is as bad as it is, explain, cause that makes no sense... Are you saying that by competing at something you become worse at it? Not every team in football wins the super bowl each year but by competing they work hard to become the best they can if they want to win... No alienation there
tazzmangotit 3 months ago
@transcendtheages As for your arguement on universal healthcare... So we all need to have money taken from us to pay for everyones healthcare (even those that intentionally destroy their health with drugs, alcahol, junk food, cigerattes,ect) and then more money taken to pay for "more government intervention and regulation" so we can be sure our "healthcare" isnt being manipulated by doctors that couldnt care less about us patients so long as they get paid? There are definatly better alternatives
tazzmangotit 3 months ago
@tazzmangotit yes there are alot of things in america that are already socialized like police fire department education roads now if everyone had to pay a private corporation for the things ive just listed dont you think it would hurt the economy it would because people wouldnt be able to afford it.But they would be forced to to survive same principle with healthcare.Doctors dont care right, and why is that its because they do it for money (competition ) now you see how competition = alienation
transcendtheages 3 months ago
@tazzmangotit Your points are well made. But before demonizing doctors (who spend 10 years of their life learning before they make a nickel), I'd focus on the lazy consumer who has no vested interest in finding a good deal, and damn sure doesn't feel obligated to be a part of any preventative measures.
Folks also expect the technology of today, but only want to pay the prices of the 60's. Our technology has outstripped our ability to pay.
4GooMan 2 months ago
@transcendtheages What is immoral is you wanting somebody else to pay your way.
4GooMan 2 months ago
yeh i find it hard to believe that more capitalism would not lower the cost, it has in every other area of life!!!
packerfan748 4 months ago
Ran Paul and his brand of Capitalism is a total failure,he like his father are actually Fascist in disguise,people have to have less than half a brain to believe in these crooks.
sarsanch 4 months ago
@sarsanch You are confusing Capitalism with the Corporatist system we've had for a long time. Capitalism would be a system of no regulation from govt. The only regulation would be competition. As far as fascism. Everywhere Fascism has been tried, they first when through Socialism to get there.
SuperNache 4 months ago
@SuperNache Like most Americans you are incline to believe your own lies,give me the definition of Socialism before we start.
sarsanch 4 months ago
@sarsanch according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary. Socialism is 1. any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. 2a. a system of society or group living in which there is no private property. 2b. a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.
SuperNache 4 months ago
@sarsanch 3. a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism an ddistringuished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.
SuperNache 4 months ago
@sarsanch "Fascist"? Mussolini, who invented the term and the system, defined fascism as the union of the state and corporations. Not too much difference from PrezBO's socialized medicine.
However do you purport the Pauls to be "Fascist"?
4GooMan 2 months ago
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fuck ron paul!
LICK5d 5 months ago
Rand Paul is a complete liar who has no idea what the poor, elderly, disabled, & middle class go through in this country. Check out the qualifications for medicaid, for example, you have to make less than $700 a month to qualify. Where's his proof that "illegals" (as he calls them) are calculated into the 46 million uninsured? This guy is so out of touch with reality it isn't funny. He serves the cons well with the attitude that only the rich deserve to live.
kyblueyes1000 5 months ago
@kyblueyes1000 Ur a joke. Learn some economics.
ModernDayPhilospoher 5 months ago
You have no idea why our health care costs are going through the roof. Rand is absolutely right. Lack of competition. Learn some economic laws. Turn off the Tv, stop watching CNN, MSN and reading the NYT. What a joke.
ModernDayPhilospoher 5 months ago 2
Shall I'll take it that I won that argument?
ActionCameraReview 7 months ago
With similar health & social issues (obesity, diabetes, immigration, poverty, etc.) you can easily compare and contrast the USA and the UK (free-market dominated* healthcare vs nationalised provision & taxation, respectively.)
WHO % health expenditure/GDP:
UK NHS = 8.4%
US = 15.2%
* Under 5% of GDP is spent on Medicare.
WHO ranking of healthcare quality:
UK = #18
US = #37
ActionCameraReview 8 months ago
@ActionCameraReview How much in the UK is spent on treating the obese? Plastic surgery? Sexually transmitted diseases? Hypochondriacs seeking attention? People who don't want to endure a little pain? Organ transplants? Power Chairs? Drunkards and dope addicts? Smokers? High tech diagnostic equipment?
How many doctors are graduating from British medical schools? How many remain in the UK?
4GooMan 2 months ago
@4GooMan All of those things are concerns for the British NHS - apart from medical schools, there are more than enough of those.
But no healthcare system is perfect. Yet I would pick the NHS over the American system any day.
BasilFawlty4444 1 month ago
Free-mkt evangelists like Dr Paul never explain how the self-interest of a doctor can align with the best interests of their patients. It's pertinent (& worrying) that he admires champion of selfishness, Ayn Rand.
What compels the Dr to provide his patients with care that's in their best interests as opposed to dubious treatments that give him greatest profit?
With all the unnecessary but profitable treatments being inflicted on the US public no wonder their healthcare costs so much.
ActionCameraReview 8 months ago
@ActionCameraReview The "unnecessary but profitable treatments" you complain of (and rightly so) are not a product of true free-mkt competition. It is largely driven by 2 factors: 3rd party payers (insurance or gov't) that insulate the patient/consumer from the actual costs of treatments, and out-of-control malpractice lawsuits that combine with 3rd party payment to encourage over-treatment.
rmcdaniel423 8 months ago
@rmcdaniel423 Oops, should that'd be "know what good food tastes like".
I've suggested a plausible (albeit cynical) reason for why US healthcare costs are so high. I don't really follow the mechanism for the first of the 2 factors that you propose drive up US med costs. Are the gov't & insurance companies made to pay over the odds? If they're being duped by the medical profession, who's cynical now?
Sure, malpractice lawsuits are costly, but what's the data you've seen on their costs?
ActionCameraReview 7 months ago
@ActionCameraReview Why would a Dr. provide care that's in the patient's interest? To ask that question is to be overly cynical of medical professionals. It's insulting. But let's suppose they're all a bunch of greedy jackals, as you imply. The incentive that prevents the "dubious treatment" you fear is the same incentive that keeps restaurants from feeding you garbage. Sure, some do. But it's only because some folks are content to buy garbage. Would YOU pay for dubious services?
rmcdaniel423 8 months ago
@rmcdaniel423 No offence should be taken. I didn't imply ALL are greedy jackals, I just suspect that malpractice may go a long way to explain the massive funding gap between 15.2% vs. 8.4%. I would love to hear a compelling alternative theory & to think all was good in the world!
The comparison with restaurants is totally erroneous. I can cook, what good food tastes like & I notice a tummy bug the next day - How can I know whether medical treatment X was better than cheaper medical treatment Y.
ActionCameraReview 7 months ago
@ActionCameraReview Because you would stop using Y and so would everyone else. Are you helpless. Can you not research or look up who is better.
ModernDayPhilospoher 5 months ago
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ActionCameraReview 7 months ago
@Ex0dus
Put down the Marxist rhetoric. It's SOCIALISM that doesn't work! Competition DOES lower prices. The fact that you would argue otherwise demonstrates YOUR ignorance. Dr. Paul's lasik surgery example clearly demonstrates this, along with thousands of other examples throughout the history of mankind. Your ideology is wrong, get over it, and move on!
jedmondson67 8 months ago
@punkerleader
If we have "free universal health care" who is going to provide it? Do you think doctors, nurses, x-ray techs, cna's, radiologists, and the millions of people who work in health care are going to work for free?! Maybe you (if you even have a job) should work for free. Why don't you ask GM to make you a free car while your at it,
or Sony to make you a PS3 and Flat Screen for free. Get a clue. Read some highschool level economics then maybe you can have an opinion!
jedmondson67 8 months ago
how about we pay NOTHING!
We should have free universal health care if ur from US
Like other countrys
punkerleader 8 months ago
@punkerleader I live in a country (Australia) with Universal Healthcare, & strictly speaking it's not 'free'. We pay for our system collectively through taxes and something called the 'medicare levy'. Even so, it still makes it very affordable for everyone to receive healthcare.
ceke72 8 months ago
Prices NEVER lower through competition, its just never happend in the history of mankind.
His cell phone example shows his ignorance.
Cell phones are ALOT more expensive to make then what we pay for them, but the cost is externalized by cheap foreign labour and raw materials extracted in countries with 0 regulation.
You wanna send patients to Bangalore for operations?
Capitalism, does not, and has never worked!
Ex0dus111 9 months ago
@Ex0dus111 That is rediculous. Cell phones cost little because they make more from the sale of plans and contracts and increase of customers.
tazzmangotit 3 months ago
I consider RP to be smart...so I must conclude that he is being disingenuous (at best) with his cell phone example...yes a 3rd party payment system is one issue...but he is leaving out the fact that a cell phone is a commodity and that it makes up less than 1% of a the ave person's income; the comparison b/t a cell phone and open heart surgery is ridiculous...having said that...there are some procedures that are standardized and should be cheaper...
dundura123 9 months ago
AceClo below...is a idiot. Why is it America has the highest health care cost..I am pretty sure it is b/c the US already subsidizes it too much. AceClo, go to school for economics and then you will realize...America's health care cost are so high b/c the gov't subsidizes them. I know a teacher that worked for 25 years and then retired. He had a heart attack and lost his legs. 5yrs later he was told he should get new legs he did not need. They cost $50,000 and sit on a shelf. Do the math.
ScrewSocialism 9 months ago
look up: Total health expenditure per capita, US Dollars
Why is it america spends the most? Sir with Universal health care, you make purchases in bulk, you buy for an entire nation right. No matter how much capitalism you bring in, you cant compete with lets say france, uk or canada who are buying in bulk for millions of people.
AceClo 9 months ago
@AceClo You are describing how the Veterans Administration runs their medical care system. Ask any veteran how that's working out for him.
4GooMan 2 months ago
US rednecks simply dont get the virtues of sharing a national system except a military that is designed to kill brown people.
000Evolution000 11 months ago
One thing though, until just last week I didn't have any health insurance. My job didn't offer it and even if it did, I may not have been able to afford it. I am one of the working Americans that work 40+ hrs a week at a low paying job that doesn't offer health insurance. I don't qualify for gov't medical care either. So, what I'd like to ask him is, what about someone like me? I do know that tort reform it is supposed to lower the cost and then maybe these employers wld offer health ins.
DizziNY 1 year ago
Rand Paul 2012!
DizziNY 1 year ago
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DizziNY 1 year ago
The federal government getting involved in health care is bad.
Bureaucrats are and have always been inefficient. Let private companies compete and then us Americans can choose how we want to proceed- instead of being forced into a terrible arrangement.
rossi094094 1 year ago
So please assholes, get those fingers ready, and argue with me, I'm bored, bitter lonely, and to be quite honest with you guys, I really don't give jack shit about healthcare, however I don't mind flooding forums with 300 pages of text just prove a stupid point.
EducationVids666 1 year ago
Is it not essential for a person to have food? Is it not essential that a person be clothed? Is it not essential that people have shelter?
If you idiots think healthcare should be 100% free of that "evil" competition, then why in the fuck should we bother paying for other essentials? It worked out well in Russia didn't it? Tell me how healthcare is any different. You hypocrites have no logic or understanding of economics whatsoever, and don't understand the value of choices capitalism gives you
EducationVids666 1 year ago
Plus the idea of competition between those companies is ridicule. First because of the amount of money in that you only going to have huge companies. These companies simple can fix the price of your insurance and that's it. There is no space for real competition when huge corporations take control. But if i was rich the US healthcare would be the best in the world...
ulyquime99 1 year ago
The analogy of health-care versus cellphone is wrong because the production of a cellphone is totally outsource from componentes, design, software almost everything. The Cost of Medicare in Canada is going up not because the government is not controlling but because the cost of medication and things that are not people relating are going up. So the Doctor side is fix in Canada. In US you have a higher medical cost + a higher medication cost.
ulyquime99 1 year ago
...we lived only once...let's make it a fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucking gooood one!
ehkymosis8 1 year ago
This country(USA capitalism addicts) believes in being the number one in everything make money like crazy and that's what runs this country. This country made a bussiness out of people being sick and that's the bottom line. Yohana Salk...invented the shot against polio....and what he did....sold the patten?...no..he gave it away to the people. For the people and by the people that's how this country should be run. Help fucking eaaaaaachother and stop all the bla bla bla...we live only once..
ehkymosis8 1 year ago
"This country made a "bussiness" out of people being sick"
So are you saying doctors are selfish because they don't want to go to school for 10 years of their life, to make jack shit?
I hate to break this to you, but the whole world is a business, even the government, however the government is an illegal business that doesn't have to follow competitive rules.
You know what this country also made a business out of?
Starving, homeless, and naked people.
Why aren't you bitching about that?
EducationVids666 1 year ago
its funny how some here disbelieve Dr. Rand Paul, when the statistics are so clear. Most people who are uninsured are either 1. in an income bracket in which they should be able to afford it (if they learn the old fashioned practice of SAVING) 2. are eligible for government insurance (medicaid) 3. or are illegal.
Its not our health care system's fault or the fact that its "too capitalistic" that the above are uninsured
So stop blaming capitalism and get government out of medical care.
mak2675 1 year ago
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mak2675 1 year ago
I love how your listening to a doctor who is probably rich because of the system and you think he's giving an unbias criticial assertion on healthcare! of course hes going to stick with the system, he's obviously more of a buisnessman/entrepeneur than a doctor. I'd rather have someone treating me who is happy to have one mercedes rather than three, who cares more about helping people than lining his pockets. WAKE UP AMERICA.
PHILIBOYLONDON78PH 1 year ago
I'm undecided on the capitalism vs socialism debate in general, as well as the healthcare debate specifically, but I have to say that I respect Rand Paul's education, intelligent argumentation, and civility. I wish there were more conservatives like him, with a voice in our gov.
theoryaction 1 year ago
Yes free-market is great, but certainly not in healthcare. Millions upon millions of people are continuously denied certain medical attention because of their income and so on and universal healthcare will guarantee any medical attention. It's for the greater good of America. People are too stingy to share their paycheck with other helpless human beings, we are so selfish. It's disgusting to be American and realize that we act in this way.
trailw 1 year ago
@trailw No, you don't get, "any kind of medical attention" in a country with universal healthcare. Making it "free" means that you increase demand. Therefore it has to be rationed to control costs and there are long lines for certain procedures. This is why countries like Canada have a whole illegal industry of private healthcare providers. The government turns a blind eye because the universal healthcare system can't meet the demand. America doesn't not have a free-market system.
voskresene 1 year ago
@whiff1962 wow, separation of medicine and state? You're joking right? Medicine and religion shouldn't even be compared in that manner. Religious practice is a basic human right that is granted to all American citizens; it is a privilege. Medicine and the guarantee of being able to receive adequate medical attention is a necessity of life that shouldn't be a marketing aspect at all.
trailw 1 year ago
@trailw Part of your response to whiff1962 "Medicine and the guarantee of being able to receive adequate medical attention is a necessity of life that shouldn't be a marketing aspect at all."
Essential is a meaningless word in the healthcare debate. Food, clothing, housing, and even cars could be "essential", but we wouldn't want the government providing those things for everyone now would we? Look how well it worked in Russia, Cuba, and every other failed communist society you dipshit.
EducationVids666 1 year ago
I do see the doctor as playing a ritual role in society; the practice of medicine, with its social prestige and power, in a secular age, would ask no less. The point I am trying to bring home is this notion of the Therapeutic state: the state and medicine; no less than church and state, until fairly recently in time. However, we live in an age of medicine (science), and the "religious" vocabulary might have changed, but the function is the same. Read Thomas Szasz.
whiff1962 1 year ago
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whiff1962 1 year ago
I look at the issue with bureacratic medicine as part of, what I would call, the "Therapeutic matrix", not much unlike the alligning of Church and state of old. The only apparent change is comes by of "sacred" symbols; and the shift from the ritualistic of religion, to that of the technical, in medicine. The clergy, the medico-scientists, "dispense" with the sacraments of "health". So, Dr. Szasz, et. al., is correct in his assessments of medicine and politics. Welcome to the Therapeutic state.
whiff1962 1 year ago
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whiff1962 1 year ago
So, were supposed to allow healthcare to become some type of marketing program that creates competition? This would continue to allow HMO's to receive absurd amounts of revenue (while they refuse surgical procedures to millions) and more and more people will also be unable to afford healthcare. Proper healthcare isn't some type of marketing program, it's an absolute necessity that should be guaranteed to EVERYONE. The thought that Rand Paul wants to do this frightens me and it's actually quite
trailw 1 year ago
@trailw How about popular protest? You should be aware of the power of the pocket book, too, right? Really, silly rabbit, you ought to show more favor in the power of people's pocketbooks! And as I see it, whose beneficient hand really engendered this mess? You really show your political stripes, and flourishing optimism in human nature and free-marketism.
whiff1962 1 year ago
How about popular protest? You should be aware of the power of the pocket book, too, right? Really, silly rabbit, you ought to show more favor in the power of people's pocketbooks! Whose "beneficient" hand really engendered this mess? You really show your political stripes, as well as the liberal's flourishing optimism in human nature and free-marketism.
whiff1962 1 year ago
RAND PAUL HAS RECEIVED OVER $180,000 OF CAMPAIGN MONEY FROM WALL STREET. DON'T THINK THAT HE IS NOT BROUGHT AND PAYED FOR!!!
ajahni 1 year ago
i dont have health care but im only 22 so i feel i dont need it. Now that obamacare is active I have to buy into goverment care and if I dont i get penalized on my taxes waddfuck somthing about that doesnt sound right
rast123456789 1 year ago
Rand Paul is a NAZI and an idiot. Screw the tea party.
bc2pr0182 1 year ago
@bc2pr0182 He belongs to the National Socialist party of pre-war Germany? If that is the case then Identify one thing he has said that the Nazis supported.
foolioay 1 year ago
@bc2pr0182 how bout you go do somthing productive instead of trying to slander someone =) donate to a good cause or go help out at a soup kitchen. Sitting on you fat ass and talking shit wont do one bit a good keyboard warrior
rast123456789 1 year ago
Bringing capitalism into healthcare... AKA Doctors end up piled in dept after med school and have no choice but to only offer medical care the very wealthy. Under this man's plan more than half of the country will be uninsured.
Medical resources are diverted from providing basic cares to those in need to providing unnecessary procedures to the opulent... AKA...
poor person gets cancer and goes untreated while a rich person has plastic surgery. That is capitalism in healthcare.
poleske 1 year ago
Good luck today, Rand! I'm not in your district, or your state for that matter, but I've contributed to your campaign and am pulling for you. We need more sensible people in the senate.
mikejadoti 1 year ago 2
This guy is insane, good luck Kentucky!
k1c2s3n4 1 year ago
FUCKING RETARDED.
amazingyou1uber 1 year ago
BRILLIANT
Heartsxoxo01 1 year ago
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Rand Paul - Sarah Palin 2012
ZalgoZalgo 1 year ago
If we vote enough people like rand paul, they would abolish medicare. libertarians like rand see medicare as an economic burden than a social responsiblity to our seniors.
KingLutherQ 1 year ago
He said that it is illegal for doctors to offer a lower price for medicare/medicaid patients. That is true, but the flip side to that is that they can't charge more. There are more and more medical clinics that simply can't afford to see those patients because they don't get paid enough to see them. The free market would make the costs go up.
Cell phones cost 15 dollars because they are made in China, should we go there for health care?
chrisginzton 1 year ago
@chrisginzton Just look at any industry where gov't gets involved; prices go up. Look at medicine, but then look at higher education. Student loans drive up prices since there's so much "easy" money floating around. In industries where gov't stays out and doesn't regulate prices, prices drop over time, the computer industry is a good example. They found solutions to deliver quality and lower prices, and they did it without gov't. We've tried gov't involvement, lets try something else.
mikejadoti 1 year ago
@mikejadoti Look at the BP oil spill. The free market isn't on our side. It is on the side that makes them the most money. I don't like our healthcare system. I, fortunately am insured and being treated fairly by the system, but there are so many that aren't and I don't want to leave them out. Everyone deserves to be healthy. I don't see profit minded free market driven healthcare to care about the people who can't pay.
chrisginzton 1 year ago
@chrisginzton I don't disagree that everyone deserves the *opportunity* to be healthy, but there are tons of options open to lower prices (like getting gov't involvement out) before sticking the expense to everyone. And oil is anything but free market, gov't involvement is rampant, most notably the damages cap and our gov'ts active refusal to allow outside help by other nations.
mikejadoti 1 year ago
@mikejadoti You're saying that if Medicaid/Medicare didn't exist there would be options for those who can't afford the thousands it costs for healthcare these days?
I'm in a unique position because I was just diagnosed with an autoimmune disease which requires monthly injections. Those injections cost $14,000 thousand a month. My insurance is covering a large percentage of that. Everyone who buys insurance from my insurance company is paying for that. How is that better than a public option?
chrisginzton 1 year ago
@chrisginzton This is difficult to discuss in 500 character spaces. However, I'm sorry to hear about your disease, however, you bought a policy that accounted for that risk, it was in the price, and so did your co-workers and others in the pool. Do you think expanding the pool to include everybody without expanding the cost to include everybody is going to work? No. Find ways to lower the cost of medicine, and that involves getting gov't out of it.
mikejadoti 1 year ago
I like the guy, he seems nice but he was wrong on a couple key points. He said that it is illegal for doctors to offer a lower price for medicare/medicaid patients. That is true, but the flip side to that is that they can't charge more. There are more and more medical clinics that simply can't afford to see those patients because they don't get paid enough to see them. The free market would make the costs go up.
chrisginzton 1 year ago
@chrisginzton Bull, your conclusion doesn't flow from your arguments. He pointed out a great example, look at areas of medicine where the gov't is NOT involved, and see what happened. He cites LACIK eye surgery, where gov't is not involved, the price has gone down because providers COMPETE. In the vast of medicine, providers do NOT compete, they charge the full amount that Medicare/caid will pay, and since they can't charge less for cash, there's no competition.
mikejadoti 1 year ago
he seems to be overlooking the fact that doctors and healthcare providers play a huge part in healthcare cost inflations which imo is what directly makes it controversial to heap onto national and taxpayer debt. If cost control is taken care of first we can move to single payer with less of an impact on quality of service and backlash from conservatives who foam at the mouth about taxes.
otterpops85 1 year ago
by simply making the satment about dentist in scrubs, and fitting you for your contacts.... that gives the precivable positiotn that you indeed have a wealth of knowlage about the syste the he dose not posess
GibsonGuy93 1 year ago
He's the Aqua Buddha
zep1234569 1 year ago
???!?! who is going to shop around for a doctor in the middle of a health crisis? people pay cash?!? are you kidding me? there is no time for competition, health care is not a commodity. as for eye sight, nothing is pre-paid by insurance if you are average middle class..... ridiculousness words fm Rand Paul all obsfuscation.... medical savings account? are you kidding? you are privileged and you have no idea what you are talking about.
mandi7and10 1 year ago
@mandi7and10 B.S., competition drives down prices, period. And you don't shop around during an emergency, you go to the ER. You can, however, shop around when you're healthy and find a good doctor on reasonable cash terms, IF you were allowed to do so. If they accept medicaid, you're stuck paying the rate that medicaid is billed at, it's illegal to charge less for cash, even though they get less headache and cashflow problems doing so. I would love to pay cash for my medical needs.
mikejadoti 1 year ago
"Health care in America is lousy, but who is losing out are the patients, and not me, so I'm pretty cool with things the way they are, really." What a creep.
fansipantz 1 year ago
Exactly! We should make getting health care a compititin so our great doctors can make more money. Just think, if we had universal healthcare doctors would have to take less money to provide all people with proper healthcare. It sends shivers down my spine just thinking about it. Those GD libs are traying to distribut everything, her's a hint Distribute my work ethic, not my wealth.jk, he's full of shit.
wdhoctor 1 year ago
@wdhoctor Whats your point? And yes I am dead serious.
Drumvain 1 year ago
@Drumvain my point is that he's full of shit.
wdhoctor 1 year ago
@wdhoctor Whether or not he's right about health care isn't really the point. The government intervention into health care is A giant fraud. The bill known as health care reform was written by insurance company lobbyist that could give two shits about you seeing a doctor. The point was to mandate that you buy their crap insurance. The kind that does have death panels deciding your fate. Anything Rand brings up is bound to be picked apart by A controlled media and the dupes who parrot it.
Drumvain 1 year ago
@Drumvain Well said. If anyone believes that this healthcare bill is anything more than a thinly disguised way to pay off those in health insurance, they're kidding themselves.
mikejadoti 1 year ago
@wdhoctor probably the most ignorant stament one could make.... the more people you put under one doctor the lower the qulity of service will be, plus real competition promots lower costs sooo your statment is invalid
GibsonGuy93 1 year ago
and recently in our paper he is wanting to charge people on Medicare a two grand deductable... Really... Rand Paul isn't for the people..
TheBeanie2k 1 year ago
a dentist wearing scrubs ≠ expert on healthcare economics
CymHastings 1 year ago
@CymHastings optometrist
finch8423 1 year ago
@finch8423 like that makes him any more of an expect on anything other than fitting me for contacts.
CymHastings 1 year ago
@finch8423 er expert (FAIL)
CymHastings 1 year ago
@CymHastings obviously knows more than you....
GibsonGuy93 1 year ago
@GibsonGuy93 how so? i'm not making any claims about my knowledge of the system, therefore making a presupposition about his knowledge in comparison to mine would be fundamentally naïve on your part.
CymHastings 1 year ago
Rand Paul is a dizzy dick like John Boehner!
padude64 1 year ago
I know one thing that government healthcare shouldn't exist.... With government it will get worse....Very soon will have shitty healthcare which will be accessable to everybody! Good luck with that..... Obama is a communist who denies that he is one. In addition, to that will have Arabs who will control USA
DInara1999 1 year ago
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wdhoctor 1 year ago
We are at A crossroads where we will either see liberty or tyranny rise. Rand Paul & his father may be our last hope before A peaceful revolution becomes impossible. Support them and all true patriots that have the guts to stand against this open threat to the future of free humanity.
Drumvain 1 year ago
Comment removed
wdhoctor 1 year ago
This guy has no clue. Doctors can't offer a lower price with private insurances either! Doctors CANNOT offer lower prices, because hospitals and insurance companies dictate prices. NOT DOCTORS. Med schools put students in enormous debt. Malpractice insurance can be 50K per year. The myth here, is that there is capitalism in the health business. Sorry folks, that died a long time ago. A med-savings account is a joke. Even a mild problem will cost 100,000 dollars. Your piddly account wont help.
qigong1001 1 year ago
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Rand Paul 2010 which is NOW people! Im doing my part, same as we did for his "Taxpayers best friend" father. This time lets not let the controlled MSM get away with the lies they continually espouse. Lets get some real politicians in DC for a real CHANGE we can believe in!
thorntongifts 1 year ago
Put the HMOs out of buisness and replace it with Single Payer, and negotiate lower prices for drugs and import cheper drugs...... Problem Solved.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
Go Jr Dr Paul, beat conway bigtime
sandythebear 1 year ago
Umm havent you heard of price goughing
Amazingjourney20 1 year ago
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this is a racist who vote for this hitler ?
billybob101013 1 year ago
THIS GUY IS NOT A DOCTOR!!!!!!!
newgarda 1 year ago
We need more real people in government like Rand Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
joe035 1 year ago 12
I love his analogy to the cellphone. My family actually gets all of its cellphones for free every few years when we buy new long-term plans.
TheLionSheikh 1 year ago
I believe that we need less government and we need tort reform. When I was younger my Mother used to take to doctors and she was charged reasonable prices. Ever sense the law was put in to protect the citizen in suits it left an avenue for abuse, therefore doctors have to raise prices to offset the negative aspect.
duvexy 1 year ago
I hope rand paul wins
texasaustin84 1 year ago 2
Yeah, let's have sick people shopping around for doctors. Great idea. Maybe accident victims could shop around for the cheapest ambulance, and hospitals, too.
That third of uninsured who make more than 50k may still not be able to afford insurance if they have pre-existing conditions or are older than 40 as the premiums were so high.
Thank goodness the health care reform bill passed.
sophiemarie49 1 year ago
@sophiemarie49
Y'all could have reduced the costs without massive expense by allowing purchase of Healthcare across state lines. Just a thought.
benjiebr0074l 1 year ago 2
@benjiebr0074l , it sounds that way on first look, but the expense of doctors and hospitals having to deal with thousands of insurance companies instead of a dozen now, would add layers of paper pushers we would all pay for.
Many of those out of state insurance companies with lower prices on closer examinations have a lot less covered in their policies. It would take a lawyer to be able to examine the fine print and tell your if policy a and b are actually alike.
sophiemarie49 1 year ago
@sophiemarie49 The health insurance "reform" doesn't do anything to lower costs. It justs says that you have to have insurance or face a huge fine.
PissedFechtmeister 1 year ago
@PissedFechtmeister, you are wrong. Why do you think the health care reform bill was so many pages, if it wasn't doing anything to lower costs? Why do you think the very wealthy insurance industry fought it tooth and nail, spending hundreds of millions of dollars to lobby against it?
Either read the bill or go to a reliable source to read highlights. AARP had a pretty good summary.
Or admit you work for and/or own health insurance stock.
sophiemarie49 1 year ago
@sophiemarie49 I've read the summaries from the liberal news sources. By eliminating pre-existing conditions, requiring everybody to have insurance, eliminating annual caps, etc. the libs think that the price will go down. It won't. All the reforms are going to drive prices up. The insurance companies love this because the government is going to subsidize it all. This is a health insurance bailout, not a health care reform law.
PissedFechtmeister 1 year ago
@PissedFechtmeister, you obviously didn't read my comment.
sophiemarie49 1 year ago
@sophiemarie49 "Wealthy insurance companies" I've never heard anyone using the word "wealthy" to describe a corporation. Liberals love to blame the "rich people." Obviously the insurance companies would fight it because they realize they will be eliminated overnight. BTW, why do you think pharmaceutical companies lobby for the bill? Also, if you own mutual funds, you also own stock in those companies. The U.S. already spends the most of health care as a % of GPD and this is the problem.
BarackHOsama 1 year ago
@BarackHOsama, I would think you could understand the distinction 'wealthy ins. companies' vs. companies not making out so good. I can't believe I'm explaining this, but wealthy means they have a lot of assets vs. debt. Sheesh!
Why would ins. companies be eliminated overnight?
I personally don't think medical insurance should be a for profit industry. The idea that some desk jockey will deny treatment to keep profits up just stinks.
'Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness', not profits.
sophiemarie49 1 year ago
@sophiemarie49 No buddy, businesses are usually described as being "profitable" or "not profitable." "Wealthy" is used to describe individuals, not businesses. Why would insurance companies be eliminated? BWAHAHA! Profit is the most effective way to drive innovation, improve quality, and reduce costs. How is having it controlled by bureaucrats any better? It would lead to waste and corruption because they are not governed by competition.
BarackHOsama 1 year ago 2
@BarackHOsama, oh, so now because 'usually' something is described with a certain word, that is now the rule? Hmmm
Ins. companies won't be eliminated even if a public option is ever passed, and certainly not with the current passed bill. I should say, the smart ones won't be. The greediest ones who won't tighten their belts, give their customers good service, will find it harder to find customers. But isn't that the beauty of the free market, the smart survive?
sophiemarie49 1 year ago
@BarackHOsama , and on your last point if you believe that regulation to protect the public from shoddy, unsafe or no-service service are government 'control' would you want to eat in restaurants if there was no sanitation inspections, would you want to hire that electrician if he didn't have to pass a rigorous test and training to get his license, would you want to share the road with other drivers if no license was required, the list is endless.
sophiemarie49 1 year ago
@sophiemarie49 I sure wouldn't want to pay more auto insurance to make life easier for those with multiple at fault accidents.
Health maintenance is not the same as insuring against calamities. If you're not paying at least $2,000 a year for maintenance, you're not getting insurance, you're getting subsidized.
Do you expect your auto insurance to pay your fuel and oil change bills?
4GooMan 1 year ago
@4GooMan Well said! Many people think that health insurance should cover EVERYTHING under the sun, and it shouldn't. They should budget their healthcare just like they budget their cellphone and cable bill. It's horrible to see people petitioning for free healthcare because they "can't afford it" when they sport a new iPhone on their hip... it's about priorities, and if the HC bill stays law, it won't be long before something else is deemed "necessary" that we should all subsidize for others
mikejadoti 1 year ago
@BarackHOsama, your idea that profit is the best way to 'drive innovation, improve quality and reduce costs', is ignoring history. When the free market is not regulated the greediest rule, without those 'pesky' regulations to prevent worker abuse, unsafe working conditions, using poor ingredients, buying out competitors for a monopoly, etc.
Read about manuf. in 1800's. The same conditions exist in countries today w/ot regs. And they are not known for quality products, quite the opposite.
sophiemarie49 1 year ago
@sophiemarie49 Behind every monopoly there has been government regulation. Look at Bell System (AT&T). Bell was taken over by the government around WWI and rates were controlled and subsidized. Why do you think I get dropped calls every now and then and see little improvement? Why are there a few wireless oligopolies? Gov. control = inflating costs. Private control = the internet, the automobile, etc. Isn't it amazing how unregulated computer industry has lowered costs exponentially within years
BarackHOsama 1 year ago
@sophiemarie49 Behind every monopoly there has been government regulation. Look at Bell System (AT&T). Bell was taken over by the government around WWI and rates were controlled and subsidized. Why do you think I get dropped calls every now and then and see little improvement? Why are there a few wireless oligopolies? Gov. control = inflating costs. Private control = the internet, the automobile, etc. Isn't it amazing how unregulated computer industry has lowered costs exponentially within years
BarackHOsama 1 year ago
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@sophiemarie49 Behind every monopoly there has been government regulation. Look at Bell System (AT&T). Bell was taken over by the government around WWI and rates were controlled and subsidized. Why do you think I get dropped calls every now and then and see little improvement? Why are there a few wireless oligopolies? Gov. control = inflating costs. Private control = the internet, the automobile, etc. Isn't it amazing how unregulated computer industry has lowered costs exponentially within years
BarackHOsama 1 year ago
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@sophiemarie49 Behind every monopoly there has been government regulation. Look at Bell System (AT&T). Bell was taken over by the government around WWI and rates were controlled and subsidized. Why do you think I get dropped calls every now and then and see little improvement? Why are there a few wireless oligopolies? Gov. control = inflating costs. Private control = the internet, the automobile, etc. Isn't it amazing how unregulated computer industry has lowered costs exponentially within years
BarackHOsama 1 year ago
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@sophiemarie49 Behind every monopoly there has been government regulation. Look at Bell System (AT&T). Bell was taken over by the government around WWI and rates were controlled and subsidized. Why do you think I get dropped calls every now and then and see little improvement? Why are there a few wireless oligopolies? Gov. control = inflating costs. Private control = the internet, the automobile, etc. Isn't it amazing how unregulated computer industry has lowered costs exponentially within years
BarackHOsama 1 year ago
@BarackHOsama Look at Amtrak, the USPS, medicare and medicaid.
whiff1962 1 year ago
@BarackHOsama Tell that to the Norwegians.
vargulf19 1 year ago
@sophiemarie49 What have you done to form a cooperative to provide medical insurance? It can be done, but it's not going to be the panacea you might think.
If you want unlimited coverage, pay the extra premium to get it. Just like auto and homeowner insurance.
Pursuit of happiness doesn't equate to a free lunch. Pursuit means actively working for something, not expecting somebody else to pay for it.
4GooMan 1 year ago
@hobatu If all those "things are better" in France, how can you expect improvements in efficiency to magically drop the costs in the US to those in France? When Americans decide to stop being a part of the problem with their health and start being a part of the solution, you may well have a basis for recommending the French system.
4GooMan 1 year ago
@hobatu Being from Latvia, I assume you have spent a lot of time studying the French system. As a European, are you aware of how little the average American contributes to his/her own well being health wise? Are you also aware of what it costs to "care for" a population that is overweight, with plugged arteries, plagued with near epidemics of venereal disease and expects organ transplants for a few miserable more years of life?
4GooMan 1 year ago
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This is crazy. Sick people are going to shop around?
As far as those making more than 50k a year, how many of them have pre-existing conditions or are over 50, so they are priced out of the market?
No one is talking about throwing over our existing health care. The new health care bill doesn't put insurance companies out of business. This crazy rumor is a far right one.
Free market with little fed regulations brought us this mess we have now. Thank goodness the health care reform bill passed.
sophiemarie49 1 year ago
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