I am 56, have gone on a full-time mission, and have been actively LDS all but the last 10 years of my life. I have earned the right to say that if these calm, reasonable, and fair-minded people are the raving, vengeful, deeply troubled ex-Mormon apostates I was warned about, then we are all through the looking glass where white is black and up is down.
This is a great video! After 50 years I left the Mormon Church too! The very last statement of video is where I'm at....What the Hell am I going to do now? Well, two years out and I am still unwinding....... I think the hardest thing for me is all the emotions and family issues that arise....I finally "LET GO" ! No more reading until my eyes hurt. No more research. I know enough!
@IamExExmormon Which one? I noticed a couple of ex-Bishops in that video. I think this is a great video. I have relatives and friends who are Mormons, and I'm fascinated by the fact that they are able to swallow all that hogwash happily and unquestioningly. Seeing anyone let go of unsubstantiated beliefs and face reality is a wonderful thing.
also, the laws of God are first, then the laws of men, so its totally okay for me that polygamy was illegal in the 19th century, I myself would have practice it in the 19th century, but I don't practice it now, primarily because its now against the law of GOD now. This days anyone practicing polygamy is excommunicated. Again we believe in honoring the laws of men, as long as they are not in conflict with the laws of GOD.
Ex-Mormons are just bitter because they couldn't live up to the high moral standards of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints!!
Profit Joseph WAS NOT "having sex"with Fannie Alger. When Emma caught Joseph in the barn with his hands on Fannie's fanny, he was simply EDUCATING Fannie about what Fannie shouldn't allow other men to do with her fanny!!
I KNOW the book of Mormon is true!!
I KNOW that Joseph SmYth was a true PROFIT of God!!
This is stupid and you know it. Your "prophet" broke the law, kept it a secret, including keeping the truth from his wife, but then again she knew he liked to have a little something on the side as far back as Kirtland when she found Smith doing a little laying on of hands with 16 year old Fanny Alger in the barn, and might I add, prior to his supposed receiving of the super special secret sealing power via Elijah. Your defending the absurd and indefensible. Press on!
@ExmormonFoundation Lets ignore what Compton said about Helen (Your false accusation in previous post), now lets change the issue to Alger. If you haven't read all the D&C, I am letting you know that we believe in honoring the law, as long the laws are not in conflict with the laws of GOD. As for Alger, lets use our 2st century judgement, against 19th century people. You forgot to mention that Alger was married to JS. Lets ignore what the family of Alger says, and other account say
From that last post it is evident that you live in a retarded mind. So now Smith was married to Fanny? Wasn't he already married to Emma? So when did this marriage take place and how could such have been sanctioned by your schizo god when he supposedly had not even given Smith the keys nor the permission to bang other women? Remember Smith was doing the dipsy-doodle with Fanny in the barn in 1833, yet supposedly Elijah did not show up until 1836. Uh oh! Kolob we have a problem with the story!
@ExmormonFoundation Yes Emma was his first wife. JS did not have an affair with Fanny. Fanny was married to JS, its called priesthood plural marriage. Compton says that she is his first plural wife. Joseph, Fanny's family, Levi Hancock, and even Hostile accounts report they were married. Let alone that we have to little information about Fanny Alger. Now did I say that he got sealed to her?? No! Stop confusing things, you are being totally DISHONEST. First Helen, and now Fanny.
Smith+Fanny banging in the Barn in 1833 = Adultery. Emma did not know of the "marriage" nor did the other Mormons, including Oliver who labeled this "marriage" as a "dirty, nasty little affair." Why would he call it such if it was a "priesthood marriage"? Why was Emma so upset? Why was Fanny kicked out the house if she was his "wife"? How could this have happened without the priesthood sealing keys to do so, which according to the story did not show up until 1836? It's utter rubbish & a fraud.
@ExmormonFoundation JS did not commit adultery, you are being DISHONEST, ignoring what Compton said. Alger was his wife, I never said that he got sealed to her, its called priesthood plural marriage, not sealing marriage. The facts seem to be that Emma became aware of this marriage at some point. Besides, Emma always changed her mind, she gave permission to JS at times, but then she got upset. U forgot to mention, that even hostile accounts of this Fanny issue, contradict each other
@ExmormonFoundation (read my refutation in the previous message about the Fanny Alger issue) What a stupid name calling, Cult. Even Daniel Dennet refutes this. The reason why we are called a cult, is because we are the minority. Minority are always get Outsiders Biased Judgement. But yea, keep ignoring the statistics, I still don't understand why you only talk crap about Mormonism, and not other religions, like Baptists, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Evangelicals, Just us, why just on us???
Just to be clear there are many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who didn't grow up in the Gospel . They had all the so called ''freedoms'' growing up everyone claims on these videos makes them so happy now They left the world behind and have been members from 3 years to 6 years and more and they say they can't imagine their lives without the gospel . So everyone doesn't fall under the grew up brainwashed in the church and glory be I'm finally free to be me catagory .
"So everyone doesn't fall under the grew up brainwashed in the church and glory be I'm finally free to be me catagory ". And some people, like yourself, fall for cons and allow themselves to be duped while avoiding investigating the claims of said group in favor of a warm fuzzy. This happens all the time, everywhere, hence the importance for evidence to support claims. If you think the evidence supports Mormon claims, think again as you study the heavens looking for Kolob.
@ExmormonFoundation I'm a convert to the LDS church since 1981. I was in my 20's when I investigated the church all on my own! I had a hard time finding things about it. All I could find were anti-Mormon books, in Christian book stores of all places! Then I found A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrand Richards in the local library. That book was so helpful! After about a year of studying, pondering and praying, THEN I contacted the missionaries to ask how I could be baptised.
People should self educate and pray to find an answer. There are all kinds of reasons that people choose to be or not to be active in a church. It is sad that people struggle in this life with faith, family, and life in general. You cannot rely on things said by people, you have to eventually know from your Heavenly Father, who loves you. James 1:5
I wholeheartedly agree that one should research and study to find out the realities surrounding Mormonism. Prayer however is a very unreliable way to determine truth and factual reality. If you doubt this, try asking your god to locate the Lamanites.
A good place to start in your studies is an excellent site run by Mormons, MormonThink d o t c o m.
Where? The Lamanites exist because Mormon Inc.'s website says so? Are you familiar with the term "Circular Logic"? Example: The Lamanites exist because the Book of Mormon says so. The Mormon leaders say that they exist, therefore they do indeed exist. Lamanites exist because Mormonism says they exist. This is a fine example of circular logic, not evidence. So again, where are the Lamanites?
Please research. The Lamanites, Smith's claims & Brigadoon are not real.
IF you are looking into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints be sure to ask a active member not a non member or someone who is having problems at this time in their lives . If you want to know about the Baptist Church go to their site . If you want to learn about us ask us. And ask yourself about the fruit you see from us.
That's the wonder and beauty of the internet. Everyone CAN investigate the claims of Mormonism, despite your attempts to control those who view this video (how typically Mormon) by classifying who people should talk with. Interesting how all cultists take the same tack. The Scientologitst, Moonies and JW's would not say anything different. Mormonism is not what it claims to be, no matter how much you wish it were so. Please visit the Mormon run site, MormonThink d o t c o m
@ExmormonFoundation so still giving references to the Mt website? The most Biased website I seen on the internet. What unfair of supposibly giving both sides of the issue, especially when critics always have the last word. They are doing outsiders approch to issues, they give an outsider perspective, and its so sad if the Mt guys really are, what they claim to be. I can give better arguments against the church than them, but I won't do it, because I know the church is true, and is of GOD.
@ExmormonFoundation You should take a look at the statistics man, in my video
watch?v=FE8NtkqWZEE
Its unfair that you only complain about Mormonism, and not about other known religions in America. But the statistics prove positive things about Mormonism :)
@ExmormonFoundation try LDS .org or Mormon.org . Ask yourself where did the Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ come from . Can only be explained one way , by the gift and powerr of God . But the anti people will dance all around the 800 lbs gorilla in the room . Have never heard a good explanation of it . That's cause there is only one . Not from Spalding not from Life of Hebrews not from the Prophet Joseph Smith or him and a group of helpers or aliens etc.
Ask yourself where did the Koran, Another Testament of Allah come from? or Ask yourself where did Dianetics, Another Testament of The Galactic Overlord Xenu come from? or Ask yourself where did the Upanishads, Another Testament of Kali come from? Ask yourself where did The Book of the Dead, Another Testament of Ra come from?
The reality is oh defender of nonsense is that Smith et al did indeed make it all up. Please get back to us when you can locate a Lamanite. All the best!
@mollymu1 Don't lisent to the Exmomo Mt website is not a good website, its bad. Besides, I can refute many of the "our thoughts" section and "critics respose" of that evil website. Don't look at such website, like the Exmomo is telling you. By the way the Exmomo, should take a look at my video
watch?v=FE8NtkqWZEE .
I wonder why he only complains about Mormonism, and not about evangelical Christians, mainstream christians, catholic. He really needs to look at the statistics in my video.
The LDS church is not for everyone. I dont think there is one church with a perfect background. The LDS have some of the best values around. Even their college enforces what they believe.
Perhaps you should check out our online presentations of "Lying for the Lord" and "Will the Real Joseph Smith Please Stand Up" to get a closer look at those "values" you're so eagerly touting.
Just click on the play-list section on our main page and enjoy!
I've read/seen it all & way before you & from an outside view of it all (not LDS) Of course there R those that will do anything to degrade, tear down & trash the name of those that do not lock step with them. It is human nature to fear that which is different. The funny thing I've found with the good anti stuff is that it is from LDS that left the church & smeared only JS. But never denied their testimony of the church, BoM or anything else it was a personal thing against JS
All the rest... is half truth and twisting or portraying a falsity of the facts. Or just an out right lie of the facts or the views and beliefs of the LDS. I think you are caught dipping your hands in the mud. Lets talk straight facts. Not your opinion or interpretation of them.
Actually it's both. It is through the discovery of the old teachings, practices & claims (many of which are recorded in earlier Mormon publications) that you begin to realize that those "eternal" doctrines are not so eternal after all. For example, in the temple ceremony, it was taught that Adam was indeed god the father and that such was one of the great mysteries of the ages. (Young required that this be taught at the veil) but now, such is denied. Kolob, we have a problem!
The Adam God theory is a twist on the fact that Adam is the Father and/or god of the human race being the first man... that is it... Remember.... the LDS have a different view of what a god is. They understand that we as children of God have the potential to be like him and are gods in our own right... you deny that.
Utter rubbish. The teaching is clear and unambiguous. Let me help you out. The doctrine originally taught that Elohim was Great Grandpa God, Jehovah was Grandpa God and Michael or Adam was our God and the Father of Jesus Christ. The original teachings came from Smith via the Kabbalah (he "borrowed" this one too during his Hebrew studies no doubt) and Young took it further and taught it openly, in the newspapers, speeches and of course in the temple at the veil ceremony.
I love how because of their faith and devotion to Mormonism, that's what pushed them to learn everything there is to know about Mormonism, and that's when they discovered the cult's history is lied about, fishy, mysterious, and messed up...proving that Mormonism is a crazy, false cult.
Words can't begin to describe how good it is that they made it clear (starting at the 5-minute mark) that they read MORMON PUBLICATIONS, NOT what LDS call "anti Mormon" literature, that led to their departure from the Mormon Church!!
So-called "anti Mormon" literature is simply the findings presented by people who research the Mormon Church! It's not researchers' fault that the truth about the LDS Church is unflattering.
Have you ever read from the Journal of Discourses, History of the Church, Ensign and Teaching Manuals? Mormonism is its own worst enemy because it keeps such good records of its own absurd claims. From Kolobial Adam, to Blood Atonement and Inhabitants of the Moon and Sun, you just can't beat Mormon publications to find "anti" info.
To aid you in your studies, may we suggest an excellent site run by Mormons, MormonThink d o t c o m.
Kolobial Adam? What are you talking about? Yes Blood Atonement is real. If you do not accept the Atonement of Christ you will die spiritually. Or do you believe you do not need the atonement of Christ?
Both Smith & Young taught that Adam was god the father, going as far as having such included in the ceremony at the veil for over 30+ years. It's well documented, Mormon sources, journals etc. Now apparently it's false doctrine. So much for eternal doctrine & the "true" nature of god. Young did claim that the Sun was inhabited, (It get's its light from Kolob too!) early Mormons had patriarchal blessings which informed them of future missions to other planets including the Moon.
Mormonism claims that there was a global flood, yet the evidence clearly shows that such an event never took place. Mormonism claims that humanity began in Jackson County, Missouri, yet the evidence clearly shows this to be absurd. Mormonism also claims Adam & Eve were real people, yet the evidence shows such to be nonsense. Mormonism claims (via the BoA) that the Sun gets its light from Kolob, yet we know through the wonders of science, not magic, that fusion is the key to its power & light.
You see oh defender, you have no evidence whatsoever to support Mormon claims. They are unfounded & utterly absurd in the light of examination, evidence & inquiry. These are but a few of the many nonsensical, absurd & downright dumb claims made by Mormonism. Mormons cannot even locate a Lamanite any more, all while trying their best to distance themselves from past claims, pronouncements and "revelations." If Mormonism is what it claims to be, it sure does its best to reflect otherwise.
Well, it's a real book and contains writings from many interesting sources, but as far as it being considered a divine and inspired work then I must part ways with such claims. Reading the Bible is enough to convince me that I want nothing to do with that sort of blood thirsty desert tyrant known as the "God of the Bible." Once you realize that your own personal morals are better than those of the deity recorded in those pages, the jig is as they say, up.
I have a hard time believing you are not a religious person or have faith in the bible when you promote a agenda that favors one religion over another. Or leave the Saints and become a BAC.
Well, I personally am not religious, and would consider myself as an agnostic atheist. The Foundation is a non-sectarian organization with no promotion of any particular religious ideology post-Mormon. We believe (unlike Mormonism) that folks really should just believe and live as they personally desire. We're not missionaries, we don't have an agenda or a long-term plan to do anything other than reach out to those who leave Mormonism or who question such.
The Moon and Sun people is a classical half truth anti drum beat. In context BY was pointing out how the religious leaders mocked those that believed the Sun was the center of the earth & then started talking about men on the moon. why? to get people like you to mock him. Way to fall into the trap and get snared. Context... you got none and only half the truth like I pointed out.
Where did you find this gem of a rebuttal? FAIR? Is this the defense they are telling you to regurgitate? Please for the sake of reason & sanity, stop defending nonsense and see just what actual, hard evidence you can find to support Mormon claims, otherwise your claims are no different from the Scientologist, Moonie or local nut shouting on the corner. Here's a little something to guide you as you search: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Evidence is key.
That rebuttal is my own... and it came after reading your post and then reading your channel page post... See... I write original stuff... your stuff is not only not original but very weak with your denial of biblical events and trying to use science to prove a religion wrong.
Please show me evidence for the existence of a God in heaven and for a the Atonement of Christ?
The only extraordinary evidence i need is the Spirit. Christianity is an occult religion.
Um, you can't prove a negative, but as a person of science you knew that right? Prove to me that Allah is not the god of this world and Muhammad is not his messenger, see, it's not a good defense. This is why evidence is so very, very important. Mormonism makes very specific claims which are soundly debunked when compared with what is known and what continues to be learned and discovered on a vast array of subjects. Again, Evidence is the key, not magic or superstition.
My morals are my own. I do not believe God pulls my strings & that my works are not mine but his that he does though me (metaphor again). I did not get my morals from a book or my religion. I’m religious because I’m moral. Please don’t look down your nose at those that are religious and claim that they are only moral because a book told them to be. I not sure why you single our LDS when you have issues with all religions.
Morality is derived from culture, assuming you being raised in a Mormon culture, have Mormon morals. Your morals are not absolute or eternal, they are a product of Mormon/ religious culture. For example, in Papua New Guinea, tribes once consumed the brain of their recently deceased relative in order to obtain that person's wisdom. To them, such is perfectly "moral" to you it would seem immoral and wrong. Culture has had a far greater effect on your "morals" than you give credit for.
Yes you can not prove a negative. Yet you can not debunk anything just claim so. So far I’ve only seen you claim that the flood is false and that the sun does not get it’s power from adamkolob The flood can not be proved one way or another. Yet there is a flood story in most cultures even the Native Americans have one. I do not believe in magic superstition or tradition.
I’m sure Muhammad along with Luther, Calvin and Joseph were all inspired by the same God.
Since you seem loathe to research anything, I will help you out. I only cite these simple examples to give you a place from which to start your research into the veracity of Mormon claims. So let's begin with the Kolob-Sun connection: The Book of Abraham states specifically that such is the case. Here is some further information on this matter so that you are fully apprised of the Mormon claim:
According to Mormon cosmology, Kolob is the governing star located near the home planet of Elohim, the Mormon god. According to Facsimile 2 in the Book of Abraham, Founding Mormon prophet Joseph Smith interpreted Figure 5 this way:
Joseph Smith said, Is called in Egyptian Enish-go-on-dosh; this is one of the governing planets also, and is said by the Egyptians to be the Sun, and to borrow its light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash, which is the grand Key, or, in other words, the governing power, which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars, as also Floeese or the Moon, the Earth and the Sun in their annual revolutions.
This planet receives its power through the medium of Kli-flos-is-es, or Hah-ko-kau-beam, the stars represented by numbers 22 and 23, receiving light from the revolutions of Kolob. (Abraham Facsimile 2, Figure 5)
In contrast to modern science and a firm understanding of how the Sun opperates, Mormonism teaches that the planet Enish-go-on-dosh (the Sun) borrows its light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrish, which is the governing power. It also teaches that this planet receives its power (Kae-e-vanrish) from two other stars (or planets), which in turn receive their light from Kolob.
Other LDS scriptures also teach that the universe is connected together to, shall we say, power lines (Kae-e-vanrish, the governing power) and that through this outside source of power or light, all things remain in their present state, giving light or power to each other. (See D&C 88: 4-13, 42-47.) So, Mormonism teaches that the Suns power comes from an outside source, whereas mainstream science teaches that the Suns power comes from an internal source, i.e. fusion.
Now how do we know this? The scientific method, which can be applied to the study of science and even Mormonism. The claims must hold up if they are to be true. If Mormonism was the truth, and could be verified as such, then we would not be here discussing the veracity of Mormon claims. As it is, Mormonism and her claims continually become more and more irrelevant in the bright light of scrutiny and investigation. In other words, the evidence just is not there to support Smith's fantasy.
The same can be applied to the doctrinal claim of the world wide flood. Now before do the Mormon backtrack and try and claim that such was a localized event, then I suggest you consult your religious leaders and have them correct what has been taught from the beginning on the matter, specifically that such was a world wide event, a baptism of the Earth no less. Again, the evidence is clear on this matter, there was no such thing as a global deluge. It is a myth.
Everyone can verify these claims and see if they are valid. One can investigate the claims of the BoM and see if such a civilization existed, if it is actually a history of the ancient Americas etc. Unfortunately, only Mormons believe these claims, as the evidence is clear and direct in showing that the claims of BoM are invalid, and have no bearing in the real world of the ancient Americas. Again, Smith's myths lose to the overwhelming evidence against his claims.
I highly recommend you visit mormon think d o t c o m to become more familiar with the many claims which stand in serious need of defense if your faith in your religion is to remain valid. Take your time, be committed to truth and see if the old process of evidential evaluation actually supports the claims of your religion.
So where is this proof that JS taught this great grand dad god theory of yours? As I understand what you do not is that Adam is only god by and thought the fact that he was the first human and it was though him that we all have life as he is the father of us all. This does not mean he is God the Father but merely a reflection of God the Father. As was Moses and Abraham and Israel and Noah and Jesus… Metaphor… get it yet?
Again, you have not done your research. Your "spirit" communication means of obtaining information is failing you, but then again it's not a very reliable means of knowing anything. This is called research dear Mormon, it's what one does when one wants to understand the whole picture, not just defend one's testimony. But I do applaud your efforts, we were all there once. Let me help you out a bit:
In 1877 Brigham Young asked L. John Nuttall, his private secretary, to transcribe the endowment ceremony in a book now in the LDS Archives in Salt Lake City. Fortunately, Elder Nuttall also transcribed part of the temple ritual's "lecture at the veil" into his own personal diary (Journal 2: December 1876 - August 1877), which is in the BYU Special Collections, in Provo, Utah. The "lecture" reveals that Brigham Young's "Adam-God Doctrine" was taught in the temple ceremonies.
"In January 1877, shortly after the lower portion of the St. George Temple was dedicated, President Brigham Young, in following up in the Endowments written, became convinced that it was necessary to have the formula of the Endowments written, and he gave directions to have the same put in writing.
Shortly afterwards he explained what the Lecture at the Veil should portray, and for this purpose appointed a day when he would personally deliver the Lecture at the Veil. Elder J.D.T. McAllister and L. John Nuttall prepared writing material, and as the President spoke they took down his words. Elder Nuttall put the same into form and the writing was submitted to President Young on the same evening at his office in residence at St. George.
He there made such changes as he deemed proper, and when he finally passed upon it said: This is the Lecture at the Veil to be observed in the Temple.
A copy of the Lecture is kept at the St. George Temple, in which Presi-dent Young refers to Adam in his creation &c.
/s/ L. John Nuttall
For Presidents W. Woodruff
Geo. Q. Cannon
Jos. F. Smith
June 3, 1892
Salt Lake City" (Source: L. John Nuttall Papers; BYU Special Collections, Mss 188, Letterpress copy book #4, p. 290.)
In the creation the Gods entered into an agreement about forming this earth. & putting Michael or Adam upon it. these things of which I have been speaking are what are termed the mysteries of godliness but they will enable you to understand the expression of Jesus made while in Jerusalem. This is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. We were once acquainited [acquainted] with the Gods & lived with
them but we had the privilige of taking upon us flesh that the spirit might have a house to dwell in. we did so and forgot all and came into the world not recollecting anything of which we had previously learned. We have heard a great deal about Adam and Eve. how they were formed &c some think he was made like an adobie and the Lord breathed into him the breath of life. for we read "from dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return" Well he was made of the dust of the earth but not of this
earth. he was made just the same way you and I are made but on another earth. Adam was an immortal being when he came. on this earth he had lived on an earth similar to ours he had received the Priesthood and the Keys thereof. and had been faithful in all things and gained his resurrection and his exaltation and was crowned with glory immortality and eternal lives and was numbered with the Gods for such he became through his faithfulness
and had been faithful in all things and gained his resurrection and his exaltation and was crowned with glory immortality and eternal lives and was numbered with the Gods for such he became through his faithfulness. and had begotten all the spirit that was to come to this earth. and Eve our common Mother who is the mother of all living bore those spirits in the celestial
world. and when this earth was organized by Elohim. Jehovah & Michael who is Adam our common Father. Adam & Eve had the privilege to continue the work of Progression. consequently came to this earth and commenced the great work of forming tabernacles for those spirits to dwell in. and when Adam and those that assisted him had completed this Kingdom our earth he came to it
. and slept and forgot all and became like an Infant child. it is said by Moses the historian that the Lord caused a deep sleep to come upon Adam and took from his side a rib and formed the woman that Adam called Eve-this should be interpreted that the Man Adam like all other Men had the seed within him to propagate his species. but not the Woman. she conceives the seed but she does not produce it.
consequently she was taken from the side or bowels of her father. this explains the mystery of Moses's dark sayings in regard to Adam and Eve. Adam & Eve when they were placed on this earth were immortal beings with flesh. bones and sinews. but upon partaking of the fruits of the earth while in the garden and cultivating the ground their bodies became changed from immortal to mortal beings with the blood coursing through their veins as the action of life.
Adam was not under transgression until after he partook of the forbidden fruit that was nesesary that they might be together that man might be. the woman was found in trans-gression not the Man- Now in the law of Sacrifice we have the promise of a Savior and man had the privilege and showed forth his obedience by offering of the first fruits of the earth and the firstlings of the flocks- this as a showing that Jesus would come and shed his blood.
Father Adam's oldest son (Jesus the Saviour) who is the heir of the family is Father Adams first begotten in the spirit World. who according to the flesh is the only begotten as it is written. (In his divinity he having gone back into the spirit World. and come in the spirit [glory] to Mary and she conceived for when Adam and Eve got through with their Work in this earth. they did not lay their bodies down in the dust, but returned to the spirit World from whence they came.
(Source: Journal of L. John Nuttall; BYU Special Collections; Pres. Brigham Young; delivered in St. George; Wed., Feb. 7, 1877. This was the first draft of the Lecture at the Veil. Brother L. John Nuttall was the private secretary to President Brigham Young until his (Brigham's) death in 1877. He then became the private secretary to President John Taylor (1879-1887) and again to President Wilford Woodruff (1887-1892
Now this doctrine was denied over the pulpit in 1976 by Kimball, claiming that such was not doctrine and was indeed heretical. So I who's right? Was Brigham right or Kimball? If Kimball is right, then Brigham was teaching false doctrine, in the temple no less. If Brigham is right, then Kimball is wrong and he has led the Mormons into believing a false doctrine. Either way, the contradiction is astounding and frankly shows just how uninspired the whole enterprise really is.
Seeing as I have more research in my few posts than you have in all your hours of video but that is another topic altogether.
Now where does it say Kolob is the nearest to Elohiem home planet? It simple says that it is the nearest unto me (God speaking)
So is your thing against the LDS scientific or is it doctrinal? You should not have an issue with the adamgod thing if you are not christian or religious.
I take it you are hiding who you really are. You are using science to give your words credit & then give other things as facts that just aren’t. Yet another propaganda tactic & similar to the last one I pointed out. Why set up your real topic of adamgod theory and Kimball dening it with the sun gets its power from fusion not Kolob? These two arguments are not even related to one another. I think you are a sneaky BAC that will do anything to discredit the LDS.
Even deny that you believe in (Jesus and/or God) to make your words seem more neutral & honest. Why would you care about what religious people consider to be inspired if you are not religious? No it is not an astounding contradiction. As BY was never directly contradicted even you admitted that it was this guys personal journal or not really you but who ever you plagiarized it from.
Ya i do have it all figured out. And i did not defend anything just pointed the facts out to you that has a hard time discerning the facts your you pointed out.
You have provided nothing other than hyperbole. Again, you have nothing to sustain your claims so instead you give yourself some sort of Pyrrhic victory. Ah to live in the simple world of the believer where facts are not necessary so long as you have a warm fuzzy. Get back to us when you can locate a Lamanite.
@Sk8er408 The Exmomo is being totaly dishonest. He claimed that Joseph SMith like to sleep with teenagers, but their is no evidence that he had sex with his youngest wife. and he claimed he had sex with other mens wives, however the available evidence dosen't seem to support that claim. I can refute the exmomo claims, and "our thoughts" and "critics respose" of the Mt bad website.
Yes, that's right. Smith just got together with these women to "hold hands." Glad to see that facts and reality aren't getting in the way of your testimony. Hold to the rod brother, hold to the rod!
@ExmormonFoundation almost finish reading Mt webcrap now, my testimony is still the same. I read the testimony section, didn't hurt my testimony at all. Even if JS had sex with his youngest wife, it was perfectly okay and legal back then, different time period, but their is NO evidence to assume that he did have sex with her. Ask Mr. Compton. U can't dismiss the possiblity that JS may have gotten sealed to married women, for and in favor of their husbands (yes even their nonlds husbands)
"it was perfectly okay and legal back then" this is simply not true. Polygamy or better termed polygyny has never been legal in the United States. It was never legal in Smith's time just as it is not legal in the U.S. today. Even when the Mormons moved out of the U.S. into Mexico, it was still illegal in Mexico as well as in Canada. But don't let those pesky facts get in the way of your testimony.
@ExmormonFoundation "Polygamy has never been legal in the United States" I never said it was legal, I said that marrying young girls was legal. but again, their is absolutely no evidence that JS had sex with his youngest wife. Trust me, I also studied Mt crap, but I prefer FAIR. Which I think is FAIR is more fair in a Mormon perspective.
Ahem, "Even if JS had sex with his youngest wife, it was perfectly okay and legal back then" Bigamy, polygyny, polygamy or whatever you want to call it, was ILLEGAL. So much for "honoring and sustaining the law." Smith was 37 at the time he took Helen into his sexual schemes, and you have the gall to even defend such behavior. Again we see how easily the Mormon will condone the unthinkable if it means they can defend their testimony and avoid reality. Sad, very sad indeed.
@ExmormonFoundation " polygamy was ILLEGAL" True! I never said it was Legal. If you read carefully what I say, but thats the typical anti-mormon, always misreading statements. It was okay for someone to marry young women back then in the 19th century, and socially acceptable. If JS had sex with his youngest wife, it was okay back then, however, their is no evidence that all, that JS had sex her. " he took Helen into his sexual schemes" thats not true according to Todd Compton.
Nice red herrings but your prophet broke the law, lied about his affairs & banged other women on the side all while lying to his wife, the Mormons & the general public about the practice, going as far as to include such in the Book of Commandments under section 100 which was a part of the Mormon cannon until 1872 when it was changed to comport with the open polygamy the Mormons then practiced. You're obsessed in trying to keep Smith the virtuous wonder-man you've got in your mind. Truth matters.
What is truly tragic is that you probably would never accept Smith's behavior in any other person. You eschew Warren Jeffs, David Koresh & Jim Jones who all did the same practice of banging members of their flocks, as cult leaders throughout history have done & are doing today. The only reason you give Smith a pass is because you want Mormonism to be real & what you hope it is, but Smith's behavior throws a wrench into that madness, so you cover for him. You make excuses & pretend. Good luck.
What is also intriguing is how you try so hard to keep Smith from having sex with other women, such as Hellen, Lucy et al yet you have no problem knowing that Brigham was banging his 56 wives. Now don't you see this as problematic? Smith never did such vile things yet it was OK for Brigham? You Mormons truly do live in bifurcated minds, where contradictions, falsehoods and outright absurdities can simply be ignored because "the church is twoo." Your founding leaders were scum.
Helen thought her marriage to Joseph Smith was only dynastic. But to her surprise, it was more. Helen confided to a close friend in Nauvoo: "I would never have been sealed to Joseph had I known it was anything more than ceremony. I was young, and they deceived me, by saying the salvation of our whole family depended on it." (Mormon Polygamy: A History by LDS member Richard S. Van Wagoner, p. 53.)
Smith and many other Mormon Apostles loved 'em young. There's ample documentation that such was so!
@ExmormonFoundation I never said that Joseph Smith did not have sex with his plural wifes, but their is no evidence that he had sex with women already married, the evidence even goes against the idea, and their is no evidence that Joseph had sex with Helen.
"but their is no evidence that he had sex with women already married, the evidence even goes against the idea, and their is no evidence that Joseph had sex with Helen." Why is it that you assume such did not take place when his behavior showed otherwise? Do we need to locate the bloody sheets, sperm samples or personal journals recording Smith's sexual liaisons with these women? You are a member of a personality cult, defending nonsense and the absurd.
@ExmormonFoundation I don't mind to believe that JS had sex with Helen, but I need evidence first, yes historical evidence would be enough, no need for DNA testing. But is their reliable historical evidence? No!!! Todd Compton says that their is no evidence that she had sex with him. Compton probably is One of the world leading experts on the plural marriage issue. Now before making accusations, Evidence first please!!! Stop being biased an add my video to your favorites
Did Smith have sex with other women outside of his marriage? yes. Was this against the law? yes. Did he lie to others including his wife, fellow Mormons & the public at large, going as far as publicly decrying the practice of polygamy and saying he only had one "wife"? yes. Therefore, the historical evidence gives us a clear understanding that Smith was a liar and in contempt of the law. The record is clear on this. Again, you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. Smith lied.
@ExmormonFoundation Thats an outsiders approach . Bushman, states that Joseph's "main point as always was that he was not committing adultery, nor was he practicing 'spiritual wifeism,' another name for polygamy. To Joseph's enemies, the speech was blatant hypocrisy, but in his own mind, priesthood plural marriage was based on another principle than polygamy." (Bushman, p. 538). The available evidence doesn't seem to support that he had sex with married women. I will be back to keep refuting..
@ExmormonFoundation "cult leaders" cult??? You sure ignore my video, you as an atheist, calling is a cult is nothing more than a childish name calling. Why are not other famous religions a cult then? The statistics prove that we are last ones (the last religion) that deserved to be called a cult.
They all started out as cults, but then with time, politics & heavy financing they gain an undeserved aura of respectability. That's just what Mormonism is trying to do as it jettisons its past, re-invents itself and its doctrines to change with the marketplace. Fortunately for the world, Mormonism will always remain a small, obscure little group with a fondness for aprons and odd ceremonies with handshakes and pass codes. Mormonism is a cult and you've been duped by such.
There is proof that he married other women... but that proof is not the greatest. Some choose to believe anything that makes their opinion stronger... while denying much better evidence that does not agree with their opinion...
"There is proof that he married other women... but that proof is not the greatest." Hmmm, do the folks at Family Search know this? The sworn affidavits Brigham had Smith's wives obtain for the benefit of Smith's son Joseph III's investigation of the realities of his fathers polygamist past? The women's own personal journal accounts? (Lucy Walker was my relative) Yes, as you said, "the proof is not the greatest." You guys sure are doing a great job in your research! All the best!
@ExmormonFoundation "You guys sure are doing a great job in your research!" why did you ignor my last message, I told you to ask Mr. Compton. Did you read that part. :)
There is no proof that he didn't have sex with them... All in all i do not think it matters... We can not just ones teachings on his personal affairs. Your typical BAC christian is a hypocrite when it comes to this matter. They ignore Peter's denial of Christ (x3.. and i would say that denial can easily be equated to denying the HG) but want a blood atonement for what they think JS did.
@Sk8er408 "There is no proof that he didn't have sex with them" Their is proof that he didn't, with some women, that he was accused of. So far, the evidence is going against those claims, and the claim that he had sex with his youngest wife.
I might be wrong on you being a Christian… but I’m not on the propaganda tactics you employ to give you words power they do not have with out it. Something you imply the LDS do with your claim that they only offer “incomplete data”. Do you also claim that all religions do this? Or are you just set against the LDS
I personally think that they are all absurd and many are not disclosing everything about their origins, teachings and doctrines just like Mormonism. Mormonism is just the cult I was raised in, so I'm most familiar with their tactics and nonsense. Regardless of what I personally believe etc. it has no bearing on the veracity of Mormon claims. If Mormonism is what it claims to be, then the evidence for such would be self evident. Mormonism simply is not what it claims to be.
I'm still failing to see this evidence that proves your point. You keep pointing to a lack of... didn't you agree that you can not prove a negative? Lack of evidence is not proof.
The Kolob thing... remember it was a dream/vision... usually dreams are not based in reality but metaphor in nature when it comes to scripture. Flood... not a metaphor... The seven skinny cows eating the 7 fatty cows... Metaphor.
Keep it up, I can see you as an apologist with such "crafty" defenses. Yes, a metaphor. Interesting how Mormon claims once debunked become "metaphors." It won't be long until even the Book of Mormon will become one big metaphor for Mormons. After all, no one can even find a Lamanite these days, and the book was supposedly written for them. Oh well. Evidence can be such a bitch!
What evidence? you have none yet act like you hold it all. And yes a metaphor as lots of the teachings in the bible and BoM are. Key word being teachings. The Kolob giving it's like to the sun is a lot like saying God is the Alpha and Omega or Omnipotent. Do you understand this way of thought? Do you even consider yourself a Christian or a person that believes in the Bible? If you dont i'm not sure what your kick is with the LDS. No one can prove there are no Lamanites.
I don't think you understand what evidence means. If you claim that you can fly without the aid of a machine, I would ask for proof. You would then tell me that I need to believe that you can do it without having any proof. This is known as an unsubstantiated claim because you did not provide sufficient evidence for your claim to be counted as real. You cannot claim something is real and verifiable and then retreat to the world of the metaphysical for cover. If your claims are real, prove it.
Again you do not understand. MORMONISM IS MAKING THE CLAIMS! How much clearer can this be? If Mormonism is the CLAIMANT then the onus is always on the CLAIMANT to support their claims. EVIDENCE is the key here. I'm done playing your mental masturbation games. Do some actual research on these and all of the other claims made by Mormonism. If it is what it claims to be, then you will be able to find the EVIDENCE to support those claims. It IS that simple. Good luck!
The issues is not proving the flood... your real issue is with what you see as a contradiction of the adam god. I've already pointed out that their is no real contradicting as you yourself or the person who wrote your assay points out that it was not BY but some one else that wrote it in his personal journal. The only stroking going on is you to your ego.
I left the church by examining church history and church doctrine in comparison to the Bible. As a result, I came to know Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. Is this an "excuse," absolutely not! It IS a VALID reason to leave.
Alright, if believing that keeps you from investigating the reality behind Mormonism all while making you feel better about yourself, then yes, these people left Mormonism behind because they were weak. Obviously it could not be because Mormonism is a fraud, that's just absurd right?
Ask yourself this, if Mormonism was not what it claimed to be would you want to know? Why or why not?
@ExmormonFoundation I know the reality behind the church. It is lead by Christ through His chosen prophet. People find excuses to leave. Mormonism is what it claims to be, 100%. I know this without influence from anyone else.
I know that makes you feel good inside to say these things as well as squelch your own inner doubts. But you have made some serious claims in your last reply. Unfortunately, the evidence does not support your claims. Do you want to know why? Are you willing to investigate the claims of your religion to see if they really do hold up to investigation or are you going to rely on the warm fuzzy instead?
Start simple. If Mormonism is what it claims to be, you've got nothing to lose right?
Then you have not researched enough. It is that simple. If Adam & Eve, the Global Flood & Kolob as the source of LIGHT for our sun, Ameri-Indians are descended from Hebrew Sailors, Magically Protective & Evil Deflective Underwear, Seer Stones & so on and so forth are real, then you MUST provide EVIDENCE to support your claims. You have yet to do so. If these & other Mormon claims are real, then the evidence will support not debunk said claims. Faith can't cover facts, but delusion always will.
@ExmormonFoundation -- Faith deniers and faith destroyers like yourself are all too common in the world. Destroying a building can take minutes; building one takes months. The ex-Mormon/anti-Mormon crowd is notorious for negativity, childish mocking without trying to understand, criticizing, and plenty of whining about what victims they are because of the Mormon Church! If/when certain points of doctrine are explained, then they dig up something else.
Good to have you back. Our videos are just not the same without the inane & absurd comments from the likes of Galactic Truth Squad defenders such as yourself. It is good to know that the super special sacred not secret Kolobian doctrines are safe in your steady hands, and defended at a moments notice against all who would dare mock such sublime truths as magic, global floods and Lamanites. Elohim must be so proud of your efforts. Way to go!
@LDStothecore I had no desire to leave the Church. In fact, it took me six months to leave after I realised it wasn't true, because it was hard to let go. Like some in this video I was trying to help a friend with their testimony when I came across the facts that led to me leaving. To say that people 'find excuses to leave' is insulting and false and an attempt to hide from the possibility that what you believe could be false. Trust me, better the painful truth than a comforting lie.
@rivenrock Are you humble enough to consider that you might be mislead? Like I said before, I have done plenty of research and I still know the LDS church is God's church.
@LDStothecore Is it important for you to label them weak, or wicked, or easily led, so that you don't ever have to consider that maybe these are rational, strong people who questioned and got an answer that was difficult, but true? When I realised, after almost 30 years, that the Church was not in fact true I was so sad, because I had been happy there and still knew that I couldn't support a lie or pretend to have a testimony in order to stay. Now I'm glad, but it's not like I wanted to leave.
An excellent reply. It is simply beyond most Mormons to even consider that their whole belief system is a sham and contrivance foisted on the world by a backwoods charlatan. It is much easier to denigrate and dismiss those who show the whole thing to be a fraud than it is to investigate, validate and support one's claims.
@rivenrock It's not important to me, but it is sad. I once knew someone that constantly bashed the church after having been a member and serving a couple months of a mission. I finally asked him how he went from knowing it's true to hating it. He had no response.
@LDStothecore That's a shame. I have a response, as do most people who leave - especially those who were active and attending when they made the decision. Even those who weren't don't necessarily have frivilous reasons for leaving. And to be quite honest, if they honestly have no testimony of the Church, then it doesn't matter if their reasons are frivilous or serious. If it is not true, they have no reason to stay, or to care about leaving.
LOL!!! Keep 'em coming. I've got one.. You too can know that Smith was a true prophet because god really did tell him to have sex with all of those teenage girls & other men's wives, or a city one day magically floated up to space, or there really was a magical tower which changed everyone's languages, & glowing rocks really can help you see better in wooden submarines & aid one in translating the odd ancient text now & then. Yes, anyone who is "humble" can know the truth of these things. :P
@ExmormonFoundation Why must you attack The Blessed Prophet, Joseph Smith?? As far as Smith's cavorting with other women?? Shall we examine the case of Joseph Smith's wife, Emma, catching him porking Fanny Alger in the barn??
The ONLY reason Brother Joseph had his hands on Fannie's fanny was because he was EDUCATING her about what Fannie should never allow other men to do with her fanny!!
Why must you hateful AntiMormons constantly distort the TRUTH about our One True Church??
I am 56, have gone on a full-time mission, and have been actively LDS all but the last 10 years of my life. I have earned the right to say that if these calm, reasonable, and fair-minded people are the raving, vengeful, deeply troubled ex-Mormon apostates I was warned about, then we are all through the looking glass where white is black and up is down.
callahanstudio 2 weeks ago
This is a great video! After 50 years I left the Mormon Church too! The very last statement of video is where I'm at....What the Hell am I going to do now? Well, two years out and I am still unwinding....... I think the hardest thing for me is all the emotions and family issues that arise....I finally "LET GO" ! No more reading until my eyes hurt. No more research. I know enough!
gbonbon452 3 weeks ago
I have yet to meet a testimony that withstood academic investigation.
KaiRoland8 5 months ago 3
Its so sad to hear the story of that Bishop.
IamExExmormon 8 months ago
@IamExExmormon Which one? I noticed a couple of ex-Bishops in that video. I think this is a great video. I have relatives and friends who are Mormons, and I'm fascinated by the fact that they are able to swallow all that hogwash happily and unquestioningly. Seeing anyone let go of unsubstantiated beliefs and face reality is a wonderful thing.
babelfishable 5 months ago
also, the laws of God are first, then the laws of men, so its totally okay for me that polygamy was illegal in the 19th century, I myself would have practice it in the 19th century, but I don't practice it now, primarily because its now against the law of GOD now. This days anyone practicing polygamy is excommunicated. Again we believe in honoring the laws of men, as long as they are not in conflict with the laws of GOD.
TheSkepticChristian 8 months ago
Comment removed
CounterCultureLives 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ex-Mormons are just bitter because they couldn't live up to the high moral standards of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints!!
Profit Joseph WAS NOT "having sex"with Fannie Alger. When Emma caught Joseph in the barn with his hands on Fannie's fanny, he was simply EDUCATING Fannie about what Fannie shouldn't allow other men to do with her fanny!!
I KNOW the book of Mormon is true!!
I KNOW that Joseph SmYth was a true PROFIT of God!!
CounterCultureLives 6 months ago
Again, it was Legal back then, for someone to marry A young women. I never said that polygamy was Legal.
TheSkepticChristian 8 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
This is stupid and you know it. Your "prophet" broke the law, kept it a secret, including keeping the truth from his wife, but then again she knew he liked to have a little something on the side as far back as Kirtland when she found Smith doing a little laying on of hands with 16 year old Fanny Alger in the barn, and might I add, prior to his supposed receiving of the super special secret sealing power via Elijah. Your defending the absurd and indefensible. Press on!
ExmormonFoundation 8 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation Lets ignore what Compton said about Helen (Your false accusation in previous post), now lets change the issue to Alger. If you haven't read all the D&C, I am letting you know that we believe in honoring the law, as long the laws are not in conflict with the laws of GOD. As for Alger, lets use our 2st century judgement, against 19th century people. You forgot to mention that Alger was married to JS. Lets ignore what the family of Alger says, and other account say
TheSkepticChristian 8 months ago
From that last post it is evident that you live in a retarded mind. So now Smith was married to Fanny? Wasn't he already married to Emma? So when did this marriage take place and how could such have been sanctioned by your schizo god when he supposedly had not even given Smith the keys nor the permission to bang other women? Remember Smith was doing the dipsy-doodle with Fanny in the barn in 1833, yet supposedly Elijah did not show up until 1836. Uh oh! Kolob we have a problem with the story!
ExmormonFoundation 8 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation Yes Emma was his first wife. JS did not have an affair with Fanny. Fanny was married to JS, its called priesthood plural marriage. Compton says that she is his first plural wife. Joseph, Fanny's family, Levi Hancock, and even Hostile accounts report they were married. Let alone that we have to little information about Fanny Alger. Now did I say that he got sealed to her?? No! Stop confusing things, you are being totally DISHONEST. First Helen, and now Fanny.
TheSkepticChristian 8 months ago
Smith+Fanny banging in the Barn in 1833 = Adultery. Emma did not know of the "marriage" nor did the other Mormons, including Oliver who labeled this "marriage" as a "dirty, nasty little affair." Why would he call it such if it was a "priesthood marriage"? Why was Emma so upset? Why was Fanny kicked out the house if she was his "wife"? How could this have happened without the priesthood sealing keys to do so, which according to the story did not show up until 1836? It's utter rubbish & a fraud.
ExmormonFoundation 8 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation JS did not commit adultery, you are being DISHONEST, ignoring what Compton said. Alger was his wife, I never said that he got sealed to her, its called priesthood plural marriage, not sealing marriage. The facts seem to be that Emma became aware of this marriage at some point. Besides, Emma always changed her mind, she gave permission to JS at times, but then she got upset. U forgot to mention, that even hostile accounts of this Fanny issue, contradict each other
TheSkepticChristian 8 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation (read my refutation in the previous message about the Fanny Alger issue) What a stupid name calling, Cult. Even Daniel Dennet refutes this. The reason why we are called a cult, is because we are the minority. Minority are always get Outsiders Biased Judgement. But yea, keep ignoring the statistics, I still don't understand why you only talk crap about Mormonism, and not other religions, like Baptists, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Evangelicals, Just us, why just on us???
TheSkepticChristian 8 months ago
Well Mr. Exmomo, I will talk with you later. (Just claim something innacurate, like I assume you always do), and I will refute it right away. :)
TheSkepticChristian 9 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Where is your posts . site .
mollymu1 9 months ago
Just to be clear there are many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who didn't grow up in the Gospel . They had all the so called ''freedoms'' growing up everyone claims on these videos makes them so happy now They left the world behind and have been members from 3 years to 6 years and more and they say they can't imagine their lives without the gospel . So everyone doesn't fall under the grew up brainwashed in the church and glory be I'm finally free to be me catagory .
mollymu1 9 months ago
@mollymu1
"So everyone doesn't fall under the grew up brainwashed in the church and glory be I'm finally free to be me catagory ". And some people, like yourself, fall for cons and allow themselves to be duped while avoiding investigating the claims of said group in favor of a warm fuzzy. This happens all the time, everywhere, hence the importance for evidence to support claims. If you think the evidence supports Mormon claims, think again as you study the heavens looking for Kolob.
ExmormonFoundation 9 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation I'm a convert to the LDS church since 1981. I was in my 20's when I investigated the church all on my own! I had a hard time finding things about it. All I could find were anti-Mormon books, in Christian book stores of all places! Then I found A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrand Richards in the local library. That book was so helpful! After about a year of studying, pondering and praying, THEN I contacted the missionaries to ask how I could be baptised.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
People should self educate and pray to find an answer. There are all kinds of reasons that people choose to be or not to be active in a church. It is sad that people struggle in this life with faith, family, and life in general. You cannot rely on things said by people, you have to eventually know from your Heavenly Father, who loves you. James 1:5
ehoucek1 9 months ago
@ehoucek1
I wholeheartedly agree that one should research and study to find out the realities surrounding Mormonism. Prayer however is a very unreliable way to determine truth and factual reality. If you doubt this, try asking your god to locate the Lamanites.
A good place to start in your studies is an excellent site run by Mormons, MormonThink d o t c o m.
Mormonism is not what it claims to be.
All the best in your studies! -EMF
ExmormonFoundation 9 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation They are all around us . Lamanites. Try LDS.org or Mormon.org instead .
mollymu1 9 months ago
@mollymu1
Where? The Lamanites exist because Mormon Inc.'s website says so? Are you familiar with the term "Circular Logic"? Example: The Lamanites exist because the Book of Mormon says so. The Mormon leaders say that they exist, therefore they do indeed exist. Lamanites exist because Mormonism says they exist. This is a fine example of circular logic, not evidence. So again, where are the Lamanites?
Please research. The Lamanites, Smith's claims & Brigadoon are not real.
ExmormonFoundation 9 months ago
@ehoucek1 true
mollymu1 9 months ago
IF you are looking into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints be sure to ask a active member not a non member or someone who is having problems at this time in their lives . If you want to know about the Baptist Church go to their site . If you want to learn about us ask us. And ask yourself about the fruit you see from us.
mollymu1 10 months ago
@mollymu1
That's the wonder and beauty of the internet. Everyone CAN investigate the claims of Mormonism, despite your attempts to control those who view this video (how typically Mormon) by classifying who people should talk with. Interesting how all cultists take the same tack. The Scientologitst, Moonies and JW's would not say anything different. Mormonism is not what it claims to be, no matter how much you wish it were so. Please visit the Mormon run site, MormonThink d o t c o m
ExmormonFoundation 10 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation so still giving references to the Mt website? The most Biased website I seen on the internet. What unfair of supposibly giving both sides of the issue, especially when critics always have the last word. They are doing outsiders approch to issues, they give an outsider perspective, and its so sad if the Mt guys really are, what they claim to be. I can give better arguments against the church than them, but I won't do it, because I know the church is true, and is of GOD.
TheSkepticChristian 9 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
Thank you for your testimony Brother Skepto. We have all been edified by your words this day.
By the way, how's that search for the Lamanites coming along? I'm sure you'll find them. Any day now, any day. Good luck in your search!
ExmormonFoundation 9 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation You should take a look at the statistics man, in my video
watch?v=FE8NtkqWZEE
Its unfair that you only complain about Mormonism, and not about other known religions in America. But the statistics prove positive things about Mormonism :)
TheSkepticChristian 9 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation try LDS .org or Mormon.org . Ask yourself where did the Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ come from . Can only be explained one way , by the gift and powerr of God . But the anti people will dance all around the 800 lbs gorilla in the room . Have never heard a good explanation of it . That's cause there is only one . Not from Spalding not from Life of Hebrews not from the Prophet Joseph Smith or him and a group of helpers or aliens etc.
mollymu1 9 months ago
@mollymu1
Ask yourself where did the Koran, Another Testament of Allah come from? or Ask yourself where did Dianetics, Another Testament of The Galactic Overlord Xenu come from? or Ask yourself where did the Upanishads, Another Testament of Kali come from? Ask yourself where did The Book of the Dead, Another Testament of Ra come from?
The reality is oh defender of nonsense is that Smith et al did indeed make it all up. Please get back to us when you can locate a Lamanite. All the best!
ExmormonFoundation 9 months ago
@mollymu1 The mormon church is deceptive. Those questioning mormonism are not going to only rely upon LDS responses.
987chesster 10 months ago
@mollymu1 Don't lisent to the Exmomo Mt website is not a good website, its bad. Besides, I can refute many of the "our thoughts" section and "critics respose" of that evil website. Don't look at such website, like the Exmomo is telling you. By the way the Exmomo, should take a look at my video
watch?v=FE8NtkqWZEE .
I wonder why he only complains about Mormonism, and not about evangelical Christians, mainstream christians, catholic. He really needs to look at the statistics in my video.
TheSkepticChristian 9 months ago
The LDS church is not for everyone. I dont think there is one church with a perfect background. The LDS have some of the best values around. Even their college enforces what they believe.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Perhaps you should check out our online presentations of "Lying for the Lord" and "Will the Real Joseph Smith Please Stand Up" to get a closer look at those "values" you're so eagerly touting.
Just click on the play-list section on our main page and enjoy!
Mormonism is not what it claims to be.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
I've read/seen it all & way before you & from an outside view of it all (not LDS) Of course there R those that will do anything to degrade, tear down & trash the name of those that do not lock step with them. It is human nature to fear that which is different. The funny thing I've found with the good anti stuff is that it is from LDS that left the church & smeared only JS. But never denied their testimony of the church, BoM or anything else it was a personal thing against JS
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
All the rest... is half truth and twisting or portraying a falsity of the facts. Or just an out right lie of the facts or the views and beliefs of the LDS. I think you are caught dipping your hands in the mud. Lets talk straight facts. Not your opinion or interpretation of them.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
Wait... so what is it? Is the LDS Church, "its own worst enemy because it keeps such good records of its own absurd claims"
OR
Do they only provide, "incomplete data"
Taken from your page
"As truth-seekers, we provide support, community and balanced information to supplement the often incomplete data provided by the LDS church."
This is a classic propaganda tactic. "They are so stupid. Don't be tricked by their cleaver actions" Extreme claims from both ends. Nice.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Actually it's both. It is through the discovery of the old teachings, practices & claims (many of which are recorded in earlier Mormon publications) that you begin to realize that those "eternal" doctrines are not so eternal after all. For example, in the temple ceremony, it was taught that Adam was indeed god the father and that such was one of the great mysteries of the ages. (Young required that this be taught at the veil) but now, such is denied. Kolob, we have a problem!
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
The Adam God theory is a twist on the fact that Adam is the Father and/or god of the human race being the first man... that is it... Remember.... the LDS have a different view of what a god is. They understand that we as children of God have the potential to be like him and are gods in our own right... you deny that.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Utter rubbish. The teaching is clear and unambiguous. Let me help you out. The doctrine originally taught that Elohim was Great Grandpa God, Jehovah was Grandpa God and Michael or Adam was our God and the Father of Jesus Christ. The original teachings came from Smith via the Kabbalah (he "borrowed" this one too during his Hebrew studies no doubt) and Young took it further and taught it openly, in the newspapers, speeches and of course in the temple at the veil ceremony.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
I LOVE THIS!!!
eternalloveabbie 11 months ago
I love how because of their faith and devotion to Mormonism, that's what pushed them to learn everything there is to know about Mormonism, and that's when they discovered the cult's history is lied about, fishy, mysterious, and messed up...proving that Mormonism is a crazy, false cult.
mneunbamboon 1 year ago
Words can't begin to describe how good it is that they made it clear (starting at the 5-minute mark) that they read MORMON PUBLICATIONS, NOT what LDS call "anti Mormon" literature, that led to their departure from the Mormon Church!!
So-called "anti Mormon" literature is simply the findings presented by people who research the Mormon Church! It's not researchers' fault that the truth about the LDS Church is unflattering.
wannawatchu66 1 year ago
@wannawatchu66
Sorry... but all the "anti" stuff i've read has employed half-truth.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Have you ever read from the Journal of Discourses, History of the Church, Ensign and Teaching Manuals? Mormonism is its own worst enemy because it keeps such good records of its own absurd claims. From Kolobial Adam, to Blood Atonement and Inhabitants of the Moon and Sun, you just can't beat Mormon publications to find "anti" info.
To aid you in your studies, may we suggest an excellent site run by Mormons, MormonThink d o t c o m.
Mormonism is not what it claims to be.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
Kolobial Adam? What are you talking about? Yes Blood Atonement is real. If you do not accept the Atonement of Christ you will die spiritually. Or do you believe you do not need the atonement of Christ?
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Both Smith & Young taught that Adam was god the father, going as far as having such included in the ceremony at the veil for over 30+ years. It's well documented, Mormon sources, journals etc. Now apparently it's false doctrine. So much for eternal doctrine & the "true" nature of god. Young did claim that the Sun was inhabited, (It get's its light from Kolob too!) early Mormons had patriarchal blessings which informed them of future missions to other planets including the Moon.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
Mormonism claims that there was a global flood, yet the evidence clearly shows that such an event never took place. Mormonism claims that humanity began in Jackson County, Missouri, yet the evidence clearly shows this to be absurd. Mormonism also claims Adam & Eve were real people, yet the evidence shows such to be nonsense. Mormonism claims (via the BoA) that the Sun gets its light from Kolob, yet we know through the wonders of science, not magic, that fusion is the key to its power & light.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
You see oh defender, you have no evidence whatsoever to support Mormon claims. They are unfounded & utterly absurd in the light of examination, evidence & inquiry. These are but a few of the many nonsensical, absurd & downright dumb claims made by Mormonism. Mormons cannot even locate a Lamanite any more, all while trying their best to distance themselves from past claims, pronouncements and "revelations." If Mormonism is what it claims to be, it sure does its best to reflect otherwise.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
So you deny the bible?
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Well, it's a real book and contains writings from many interesting sources, but as far as it being considered a divine and inspired work then I must part ways with such claims. Reading the Bible is enough to convince me that I want nothing to do with that sort of blood thirsty desert tyrant known as the "God of the Bible." Once you realize that your own personal morals are better than those of the deity recorded in those pages, the jig is as they say, up.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
I have a hard time believing you are not a religious person or have faith in the bible when you promote a agenda that favors one religion over another. Or leave the Saints and become a BAC.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Well, I personally am not religious, and would consider myself as an agnostic atheist. The Foundation is a non-sectarian organization with no promotion of any particular religious ideology post-Mormon. We believe (unlike Mormonism) that folks really should just believe and live as they personally desire. We're not missionaries, we don't have an agenda or a long-term plan to do anything other than reach out to those who leave Mormonism or who question such.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation "We believe (unlike Mormonism) that folks really should just believe and live as they personally desire."
Really? Never head of the JS quote "I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves."???
You project an opinion... why do you feel you have to shut others opinion down that does not lock step with yours?
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
The Moon and Sun people is a classical half truth anti drum beat. In context BY was pointing out how the religious leaders mocked those that believed the Sun was the center of the earth & then started talking about men on the moon. why? to get people like you to mock him. Way to fall into the trap and get snared. Context... you got none and only half the truth like I pointed out.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Where did you find this gem of a rebuttal? FAIR? Is this the defense they are telling you to regurgitate? Please for the sake of reason & sanity, stop defending nonsense and see just what actual, hard evidence you can find to support Mormon claims, otherwise your claims are no different from the Scientologist, Moonie or local nut shouting on the corner. Here's a little something to guide you as you search: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Evidence is key.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
That rebuttal is my own... and it came after reading your post and then reading your channel page post... See... I write original stuff... your stuff is not only not original but very weak with your denial of biblical events and trying to use science to prove a religion wrong.
Please show me evidence for the existence of a God in heaven and for a the Atonement of Christ?
The only extraordinary evidence i need is the Spirit. Christianity is an occult religion.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Um, you can't prove a negative, but as a person of science you knew that right? Prove to me that Allah is not the god of this world and Muhammad is not his messenger, see, it's not a good defense. This is why evidence is so very, very important. Mormonism makes very specific claims which are soundly debunked when compared with what is known and what continues to be learned and discovered on a vast array of subjects. Again, Evidence is the key, not magic or superstition.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
My morals are my own. I do not believe God pulls my strings & that my works are not mine but his that he does though me (metaphor again). I did not get my morals from a book or my religion. I’m religious because I’m moral. Please don’t look down your nose at those that are religious and claim that they are only moral because a book told them to be. I not sure why you single our LDS when you have issues with all religions.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Morality is derived from culture, assuming you being raised in a Mormon culture, have Mormon morals. Your morals are not absolute or eternal, they are a product of Mormon/ religious culture. For example, in Papua New Guinea, tribes once consumed the brain of their recently deceased relative in order to obtain that person's wisdom. To them, such is perfectly "moral" to you it would seem immoral and wrong. Culture has had a far greater effect on your "morals" than you give credit for.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
Yes you can not prove a negative. Yet you can not debunk anything just claim so. So far I’ve only seen you claim that the flood is false and that the sun does not get it’s power from adamkolob The flood can not be proved one way or another. Yet there is a flood story in most cultures even the Native Americans have one. I do not believe in magic superstition or tradition.
I’m sure Muhammad along with Luther, Calvin and Joseph were all inspired by the same God.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Since you seem loathe to research anything, I will help you out. I only cite these simple examples to give you a place from which to start your research into the veracity of Mormon claims. So let's begin with the Kolob-Sun connection: The Book of Abraham states specifically that such is the case. Here is some further information on this matter so that you are fully apprised of the Mormon claim:
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
According to Mormon cosmology, Kolob is the governing star located near the home planet of Elohim, the Mormon god. According to Facsimile 2 in the Book of Abraham, Founding Mormon prophet Joseph Smith interpreted Figure 5 this way:
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
Joseph Smith said, Is called in Egyptian Enish-go-on-dosh; this is one of the governing planets also, and is said by the Egyptians to be the Sun, and to borrow its light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash, which is the grand Key, or, in other words, the governing power, which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars, as also Floeese or the Moon, the Earth and the Sun in their annual revolutions.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
This planet receives its power through the medium of Kli-flos-is-es, or Hah-ko-kau-beam, the stars represented by numbers 22 and 23, receiving light from the revolutions of Kolob. (Abraham Facsimile 2, Figure 5)
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
In contrast to modern science and a firm understanding of how the Sun opperates, Mormonism teaches that the planet Enish-go-on-dosh (the Sun) borrows its light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrish, which is the governing power. It also teaches that this planet receives its power (Kae-e-vanrish) from two other stars (or planets), which in turn receive their light from Kolob.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
Other LDS scriptures also teach that the universe is connected together to, shall we say, power lines (Kae-e-vanrish, the governing power) and that through this outside source of power or light, all things remain in their present state, giving light or power to each other. (See D&C 88: 4-13, 42-47.) So, Mormonism teaches that the Suns power comes from an outside source, whereas mainstream science teaches that the Suns power comes from an internal source, i.e. fusion.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
Now how do we know this? The scientific method, which can be applied to the study of science and even Mormonism. The claims must hold up if they are to be true. If Mormonism was the truth, and could be verified as such, then we would not be here discussing the veracity of Mormon claims. As it is, Mormonism and her claims continually become more and more irrelevant in the bright light of scrutiny and investigation. In other words, the evidence just is not there to support Smith's fantasy.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
The same can be applied to the doctrinal claim of the world wide flood. Now before do the Mormon backtrack and try and claim that such was a localized event, then I suggest you consult your religious leaders and have them correct what has been taught from the beginning on the matter, specifically that such was a world wide event, a baptism of the Earth no less. Again, the evidence is clear on this matter, there was no such thing as a global deluge. It is a myth.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
Everyone can verify these claims and see if they are valid. One can investigate the claims of the BoM and see if such a civilization existed, if it is actually a history of the ancient Americas etc. Unfortunately, only Mormons believe these claims, as the evidence is clear and direct in showing that the claims of BoM are invalid, and have no bearing in the real world of the ancient Americas. Again, Smith's myths lose to the overwhelming evidence against his claims.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
I highly recommend you visit mormon think d o t c o m to become more familiar with the many claims which stand in serious need of defense if your faith in your religion is to remain valid. Take your time, be committed to truth and see if the old process of evidential evaluation actually supports the claims of your religion.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
So where is this proof that JS taught this great grand dad god theory of yours? As I understand what you do not is that Adam is only god by and thought the fact that he was the first human and it was though him that we all have life as he is the father of us all. This does not mean he is God the Father but merely a reflection of God the Father. As was Moses and Abraham and Israel and Noah and Jesus… Metaphor… get it yet?
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Again, you have not done your research. Your "spirit" communication means of obtaining information is failing you, but then again it's not a very reliable means of knowing anything. This is called research dear Mormon, it's what one does when one wants to understand the whole picture, not just defend one's testimony. But I do applaud your efforts, we were all there once. Let me help you out a bit:
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
In 1877 Brigham Young asked L. John Nuttall, his private secretary, to transcribe the endowment ceremony in a book now in the LDS Archives in Salt Lake City. Fortunately, Elder Nuttall also transcribed part of the temple ritual's "lecture at the veil" into his own personal diary (Journal 2: December 1876 - August 1877), which is in the BYU Special Collections, in Provo, Utah. The "lecture" reveals that Brigham Young's "Adam-God Doctrine" was taught in the temple ceremonies.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
He writes:
"In January 1877, shortly after the lower portion of the St. George Temple was dedicated, President Brigham Young, in following up in the Endowments written, became convinced that it was necessary to have the formula of the Endowments written, and he gave directions to have the same put in writing.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
Shortly afterwards he explained what the Lecture at the Veil should portray, and for this purpose appointed a day when he would personally deliver the Lecture at the Veil. Elder J.D.T. McAllister and L. John Nuttall prepared writing material, and as the President spoke they took down his words. Elder Nuttall put the same into form and the writing was submitted to President Young on the same evening at his office in residence at St. George.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
He there made such changes as he deemed proper, and when he finally passed upon it said: This is the Lecture at the Veil to be observed in the Temple.
A copy of the Lecture is kept at the St. George Temple, in which Presi-dent Young refers to Adam in his creation &c.
/s/ L. John Nuttall
For Presidents W. Woodruff
Geo. Q. Cannon
Jos. F. Smith
June 3, 1892
Salt Lake City" (Source: L. John Nuttall Papers; BYU Special Collections, Mss 188, Letterpress copy book #4, p. 290.)
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
Below is Brigham's Lecture at the Veil
In the creation the Gods entered into an agreement about forming this earth. & putting Michael or Adam upon it. these things of which I have been speaking are what are termed the mysteries of godliness but they will enable you to understand the expression of Jesus made while in Jerusalem. This is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. We were once acquainited [acquainted] with the Gods & lived with
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
them but we had the privilige of taking upon us flesh that the spirit might have a house to dwell in. we did so and forgot all and came into the world not recollecting anything of which we had previously learned. We have heard a great deal about Adam and Eve. how they were formed &c some think he was made like an adobie and the Lord breathed into him the breath of life. for we read "from dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return" Well he was made of the dust of the earth but not of this
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
earth. he was made just the same way you and I are made but on another earth. Adam was an immortal being when he came. on this earth he had lived on an earth similar to ours he had received the Priesthood and the Keys thereof. and had been faithful in all things and gained his resurrection and his exaltation and was crowned with glory immortality and eternal lives and was numbered with the Gods for such he became through his faithfulness
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
and had been faithful in all things and gained his resurrection and his exaltation and was crowned with glory immortality and eternal lives and was numbered with the Gods for such he became through his faithfulness. and had begotten all the spirit that was to come to this earth. and Eve our common Mother who is the mother of all living bore those spirits in the celestial
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
world. and when this earth was organized by Elohim. Jehovah & Michael who is Adam our common Father. Adam & Eve had the privilege to continue the work of Progression. consequently came to this earth and commenced the great work of forming tabernacles for those spirits to dwell in. and when Adam and those that assisted him had completed this Kingdom our earth he came to it
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
. and slept and forgot all and became like an Infant child. it is said by Moses the historian that the Lord caused a deep sleep to come upon Adam and took from his side a rib and formed the woman that Adam called Eve-this should be interpreted that the Man Adam like all other Men had the seed within him to propagate his species. but not the Woman. she conceives the seed but she does not produce it.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
consequently she was taken from the side or bowels of her father. this explains the mystery of Moses's dark sayings in regard to Adam and Eve. Adam & Eve when they were placed on this earth were immortal beings with flesh. bones and sinews. but upon partaking of the fruits of the earth while in the garden and cultivating the ground their bodies became changed from immortal to mortal beings with the blood coursing through their veins as the action of life.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
Adam was not under transgression until after he partook of the forbidden fruit that was nesesary that they might be together that man might be. the woman was found in trans-gression not the Man- Now in the law of Sacrifice we have the promise of a Savior and man had the privilege and showed forth his obedience by offering of the first fruits of the earth and the firstlings of the flocks- this as a showing that Jesus would come and shed his blood.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
Father Adam's oldest son (Jesus the Saviour) who is the heir of the family is Father Adams first begotten in the spirit World. who according to the flesh is the only begotten as it is written. (In his divinity he having gone back into the spirit World. and come in the spirit [glory] to Mary and she conceived for when Adam and Eve got through with their Work in this earth. they did not lay their bodies down in the dust, but returned to the spirit World from whence they came.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
I felt myself much blessed in being permitted to associate with such men and hear such instructions as they savored of life to me-
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
(Source: Journal of L. John Nuttall; BYU Special Collections; Pres. Brigham Young; delivered in St. George; Wed., Feb. 7, 1877. This was the first draft of the Lecture at the Veil. Brother L. John Nuttall was the private secretary to President Brigham Young until his (Brigham's) death in 1877. He then became the private secretary to President John Taylor (1879-1887) and again to President Wilford Woodruff (1887-1892
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
Now this doctrine was denied over the pulpit in 1976 by Kimball, claiming that such was not doctrine and was indeed heretical. So I who's right? Was Brigham right or Kimball? If Kimball is right, then Brigham was teaching false doctrine, in the temple no less. If Brigham is right, then Kimball is wrong and he has led the Mormons into believing a false doctrine. Either way, the contradiction is astounding and frankly shows just how uninspired the whole enterprise really is.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation Can you give me a hug?
IamExExmormon 8 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
Seeing as I have more research in my few posts than you have in all your hours of video but that is another topic altogether.
Now where does it say Kolob is the nearest to Elohiem home planet? It simple says that it is the nearest unto me (God speaking)
So is your thing against the LDS scientific or is it doctrinal? You should not have an issue with the adamgod thing if you are not christian or religious.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
I take it you are hiding who you really are. You are using science to give your words credit & then give other things as facts that just aren’t. Yet another propaganda tactic & similar to the last one I pointed out. Why set up your real topic of adamgod theory and Kimball dening it with the sun gets its power from fusion not Kolob? These two arguments are not even related to one another. I think you are a sneaky BAC that will do anything to discredit the LDS.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
Even deny that you believe in (Jesus and/or God) to make your words seem more neutral & honest. Why would you care about what religious people consider to be inspired if you are not religious? No it is not an astounding contradiction. As BY was never directly contradicted even you admitted that it was this guys personal journal or not really you but who ever you plagiarized it from.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Ok, it looks like you've got it all figured out. Testimony safe, nonsense defended, facts ignored.
All the best in your studies.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
Ya i do have it all figured out. And i did not defend anything just pointed the facts out to you that has a hard time discerning the facts your you pointed out.
All the best in your opinionated commentary.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
You have provided nothing other than hyperbole. Again, you have nothing to sustain your claims so instead you give yourself some sort of Pyrrhic victory. Ah to live in the simple world of the believer where facts are not necessary so long as you have a warm fuzzy. Get back to us when you can locate a Lamanite.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@Sk8er408 The Exmomo is being totaly dishonest. He claimed that Joseph SMith like to sleep with teenagers, but their is no evidence that he had sex with his youngest wife. and he claimed he had sex with other mens wives, however the available evidence dosen't seem to support that claim. I can refute the exmomo claims, and "our thoughts" and "critics respose" of the Mt bad website.
TheSkepticChristian 9 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
Yes, that's right. Smith just got together with these women to "hold hands." Glad to see that facts and reality aren't getting in the way of your testimony. Hold to the rod brother, hold to the rod!
ExmormonFoundation 9 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation almost finish reading Mt webcrap now, my testimony is still the same. I read the testimony section, didn't hurt my testimony at all. Even if JS had sex with his youngest wife, it was perfectly okay and legal back then, different time period, but their is NO evidence to assume that he did have sex with her. Ask Mr. Compton. U can't dismiss the possiblity that JS may have gotten sealed to married women, for and in favor of their husbands (yes even their nonlds husbands)
TheSkepticChristian 9 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
"it was perfectly okay and legal back then" this is simply not true. Polygamy or better termed polygyny has never been legal in the United States. It was never legal in Smith's time just as it is not legal in the U.S. today. Even when the Mormons moved out of the U.S. into Mexico, it was still illegal in Mexico as well as in Canada. But don't let those pesky facts get in the way of your testimony.
ExmormonFoundation 9 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation "Polygamy has never been legal in the United States" I never said it was legal, I said that marrying young girls was legal. but again, their is absolutely no evidence that JS had sex with his youngest wife. Trust me, I also studied Mt crap, but I prefer FAIR. Which I think is FAIR is more fair in a Mormon perspective.
TheSkepticChristian 9 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
Ahem, "Even if JS had sex with his youngest wife, it was perfectly okay and legal back then" Bigamy, polygyny, polygamy or whatever you want to call it, was ILLEGAL. So much for "honoring and sustaining the law." Smith was 37 at the time he took Helen into his sexual schemes, and you have the gall to even defend such behavior. Again we see how easily the Mormon will condone the unthinkable if it means they can defend their testimony and avoid reality. Sad, very sad indeed.
ExmormonFoundation 8 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation " polygamy was ILLEGAL" True! I never said it was Legal. If you read carefully what I say, but thats the typical anti-mormon, always misreading statements. It was okay for someone to marry young women back then in the 19th century, and socially acceptable. If JS had sex with his youngest wife, it was okay back then, however, their is no evidence that all, that JS had sex her. " he took Helen into his sexual schemes" thats not true according to Todd Compton.
TheSkepticChristian 8 months ago
Nice red herrings but your prophet broke the law, lied about his affairs & banged other women on the side all while lying to his wife, the Mormons & the general public about the practice, going as far as to include such in the Book of Commandments under section 100 which was a part of the Mormon cannon until 1872 when it was changed to comport with the open polygamy the Mormons then practiced. You're obsessed in trying to keep Smith the virtuous wonder-man you've got in your mind. Truth matters.
ExmormonFoundation 8 months ago
What is truly tragic is that you probably would never accept Smith's behavior in any other person. You eschew Warren Jeffs, David Koresh & Jim Jones who all did the same practice of banging members of their flocks, as cult leaders throughout history have done & are doing today. The only reason you give Smith a pass is because you want Mormonism to be real & what you hope it is, but Smith's behavior throws a wrench into that madness, so you cover for him. You make excuses & pretend. Good luck.
ExmormonFoundation 8 months ago
What is also intriguing is how you try so hard to keep Smith from having sex with other women, such as Hellen, Lucy et al yet you have no problem knowing that Brigham was banging his 56 wives. Now don't you see this as problematic? Smith never did such vile things yet it was OK for Brigham? You Mormons truly do live in bifurcated minds, where contradictions, falsehoods and outright absurdities can simply be ignored because "the church is twoo." Your founding leaders were scum.
ExmormonFoundation 8 months ago
Helen thought her marriage to Joseph Smith was only dynastic. But to her surprise, it was more. Helen confided to a close friend in Nauvoo: "I would never have been sealed to Joseph had I known it was anything more than ceremony. I was young, and they deceived me, by saying the salvation of our whole family depended on it." (Mormon Polygamy: A History by LDS member Richard S. Van Wagoner, p. 53.)
Smith and many other Mormon Apostles loved 'em young. There's ample documentation that such was so!
ExmormonFoundation 8 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation I never said that Joseph Smith did not have sex with his plural wifes, but their is no evidence that he had sex with women already married, the evidence even goes against the idea, and their is no evidence that Joseph had sex with Helen.
TheSkepticChristian 8 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
"but their is no evidence that he had sex with women already married, the evidence even goes against the idea, and their is no evidence that Joseph had sex with Helen." Why is it that you assume such did not take place when his behavior showed otherwise? Do we need to locate the bloody sheets, sperm samples or personal journals recording Smith's sexual liaisons with these women? You are a member of a personality cult, defending nonsense and the absurd.
ExmormonFoundation 8 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation I don't mind to believe that JS had sex with Helen, but I need evidence first, yes historical evidence would be enough, no need for DNA testing. But is their reliable historical evidence? No!!! Todd Compton says that their is no evidence that she had sex with him. Compton probably is One of the world leading experts on the plural marriage issue. Now before making accusations, Evidence first please!!! Stop being biased an add my video to your favorites
watch?v=FE8NtkqWZEE
TheSkepticChristian 8 months ago
Did Smith have sex with other women outside of his marriage? yes. Was this against the law? yes. Did he lie to others including his wife, fellow Mormons & the public at large, going as far as publicly decrying the practice of polygamy and saying he only had one "wife"? yes. Therefore, the historical evidence gives us a clear understanding that Smith was a liar and in contempt of the law. The record is clear on this. Again, you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. Smith lied.
ExmormonFoundation 8 months ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
@ExmormonFoundation Thats an outsiders approach . Bushman, states that Joseph's "main point as always was that he was not committing adultery, nor was he practicing 'spiritual wifeism,' another name for polygamy. To Joseph's enemies, the speech was blatant hypocrisy, but in his own mind, priesthood plural marriage was based on another principle than polygamy." (Bushman, p. 538). The available evidence doesn't seem to support that he had sex with married women. I will be back to keep refuting..
TheSkepticChristian 8 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation "cult leaders" cult??? You sure ignore my video, you as an atheist, calling is a cult is nothing more than a childish name calling. Why are not other famous religions a cult then? The statistics prove that we are last ones (the last religion) that deserved to be called a cult.
watch?v=FE8NtkqWZEE
TheSkepticChristian 8 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
They all started out as cults, but then with time, politics & heavy financing they gain an undeserved aura of respectability. That's just what Mormonism is trying to do as it jettisons its past, re-invents itself and its doctrines to change with the marketplace. Fortunately for the world, Mormonism will always remain a small, obscure little group with a fondness for aprons and odd ceremonies with handshakes and pass codes. Mormonism is a cult and you've been duped by such.
ExmormonFoundation 8 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
There is proof that he married other women... but that proof is not the greatest. Some choose to believe anything that makes their opinion stronger... while denying much better evidence that does not agree with their opinion...
Sk8er408 9 months ago
@Sk8er408 I have nothing to ignor
TheSkepticChristian 9 months ago
@Sk8er408
"There is proof that he married other women... but that proof is not the greatest." Hmmm, do the folks at Family Search know this? The sworn affidavits Brigham had Smith's wives obtain for the benefit of Smith's son Joseph III's investigation of the realities of his fathers polygamist past? The women's own personal journal accounts? (Lucy Walker was my relative) Yes, as you said, "the proof is not the greatest." You guys sure are doing a great job in your research! All the best!
ExmormonFoundation 9 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation "You guys sure are doing a great job in your research!" why did you ignor my last message, I told you to ask Mr. Compton. Did you read that part. :)
TheSkepticChristian 9 months ago
@Sk8er408 "There is proof that he married other women" the available evidence dosen't seem to support the idea that JS had SEX with married women.
TheSkepticChristian 9 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
There is no proof that he didn't have sex with them... All in all i do not think it matters... We can not just ones teachings on his personal affairs. Your typical BAC christian is a hypocrite when it comes to this matter. They ignore Peter's denial of Christ (x3.. and i would say that denial can easily be equated to denying the HG) but want a blood atonement for what they think JS did.
Sk8er408 9 months ago
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@Sk8er408 "There is no proof that he didn't have sex with them" Their is proof that he didn't, with some women, that he was accused of. So far, the evidence is going against those claims, and the claim that he had sex with his youngest wife.
TheSkepticChristian 9 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
I might be wrong on you being a Christian… but I’m not on the propaganda tactics you employ to give you words power they do not have with out it. Something you imply the LDS do with your claim that they only offer “incomplete data”. Do you also claim that all religions do this? Or are you just set against the LDS
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
I personally think that they are all absurd and many are not disclosing everything about their origins, teachings and doctrines just like Mormonism. Mormonism is just the cult I was raised in, so I'm most familiar with their tactics and nonsense. Regardless of what I personally believe etc. it has no bearing on the veracity of Mormon claims. If Mormonism is what it claims to be, then the evidence for such would be self evident. Mormonism simply is not what it claims to be.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
I'm still failing to see this evidence that proves your point. You keep pointing to a lack of... didn't you agree that you can not prove a negative? Lack of evidence is not proof.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
I'd say mainstream Christianity is not what it claims to be. Especially those that mock others that strive to follow the example of Christ.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
"I'd say mainstream Christianity is not what it claims to be." Couldn't have said it better myself.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
I'm guessing you are not a Christian at all.
The Kolob thing... remember it was a dream/vision... usually dreams are not based in reality but metaphor in nature when it comes to scripture. Flood... not a metaphor... The seven skinny cows eating the 7 fatty cows... Metaphor.
Get it?
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Keep it up, I can see you as an apologist with such "crafty" defenses. Yes, a metaphor. Interesting how Mormon claims once debunked become "metaphors." It won't be long until even the Book of Mormon will become one big metaphor for Mormons. After all, no one can even find a Lamanite these days, and the book was supposedly written for them. Oh well. Evidence can be such a bitch!
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
What evidence? you have none yet act like you hold it all. And yes a metaphor as lots of the teachings in the bible and BoM are. Key word being teachings. The Kolob giving it's like to the sun is a lot like saying God is the Alpha and Omega or Omnipotent. Do you understand this way of thought? Do you even consider yourself a Christian or a person that believes in the Bible? If you dont i'm not sure what your kick is with the LDS. No one can prove there are no Lamanites.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
I don't think you understand what evidence means. If you claim that you can fly without the aid of a machine, I would ask for proof. You would then tell me that I need to believe that you can do it without having any proof. This is known as an unsubstantiated claim because you did not provide sufficient evidence for your claim to be counted as real. You cannot claim something is real and verifiable and then retreat to the world of the metaphysical for cover. If your claims are real, prove it.
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
I dont have to prove anything. You are still without evidence as you claim religion is.
I'm not the one that calimed i have evidence. that was you.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Again you do not understand. MORMONISM IS MAKING THE CLAIMS! How much clearer can this be? If Mormonism is the CLAIMANT then the onus is always on the CLAIMANT to support their claims. EVIDENCE is the key here. I'm done playing your mental masturbation games. Do some actual research on these and all of the other claims made by Mormonism. If it is what it claims to be, then you will be able to find the EVIDENCE to support those claims. It IS that simple. Good luck!
ExmormonFoundation 11 months ago
@ExmormonFoundation
The issues is not proving the flood... your real issue is with what you see as a contradiction of the adam god. I've already pointed out that their is no real contradicting as you yourself or the person who wrote your assay points out that it was not BY but some one else that wrote it in his personal journal. The only stroking going on is you to your ego.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@4:00 That was precious!! (Daddy, I have to go to the bathroom!!)
This man has five kids. We were only able to have one child. Moments like that are all so blessed, all too fleeting.
CounterCultureLives 1 year ago
@alicecarroll1313 When you yell, people stop listening. Can't you just say what you want to say without SCREAMING IT IN CAPS? It's obnoxious.
rivenrock 1 year ago
I left the church by examining church history and church doctrine in comparison to the Bible. As a result, I came to know Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. Is this an "excuse," absolutely not! It IS a VALID reason to leave.
akg771959 1 year ago 2
These people are weak.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
@LDStothecore
Alright, if believing that keeps you from investigating the reality behind Mormonism all while making you feel better about yourself, then yes, these people left Mormonism behind because they were weak. Obviously it could not be because Mormonism is a fraud, that's just absurd right?
Ask yourself this, if Mormonism was not what it claimed to be would you want to know? Why or why not?
All the best in your studies. -EMF
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
@ExmormonFoundation I know the reality behind the church. It is lead by Christ through His chosen prophet. People find excuses to leave. Mormonism is what it claims to be, 100%. I know this without influence from anyone else.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
I know that makes you feel good inside to say these things as well as squelch your own inner doubts. But you have made some serious claims in your last reply. Unfortunately, the evidence does not support your claims. Do you want to know why? Are you willing to investigate the claims of your religion to see if they really do hold up to investigation or are you going to rely on the warm fuzzy instead?
Start simple. If Mormonism is what it claims to be, you've got nothing to lose right?
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
@ExmormonFoundation I have zero doubts. I have done plenty of research and the LDS Church is still True.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
Then you have not researched enough. It is that simple. If Adam & Eve, the Global Flood & Kolob as the source of LIGHT for our sun, Ameri-Indians are descended from Hebrew Sailors, Magically Protective & Evil Deflective Underwear, Seer Stones & so on and so forth are real, then you MUST provide EVIDENCE to support your claims. You have yet to do so. If these & other Mormon claims are real, then the evidence will support not debunk said claims. Faith can't cover facts, but delusion always will.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
@ExmormonFoundation -- Faith deniers and faith destroyers like yourself are all too common in the world. Destroying a building can take minutes; building one takes months. The ex-Mormon/anti-Mormon crowd is notorious for negativity, childish mocking without trying to understand, criticizing, and plenty of whining about what victims they are because of the Mormon Church! If/when certain points of doctrine are explained, then they dig up something else.
Be happy! Be Mormon!
DrTerminus 1 year ago
@DrTerminus
Good to have you back. Our videos are just not the same without the inane & absurd comments from the likes of Galactic Truth Squad defenders such as yourself. It is good to know that the super special sacred not secret Kolobian doctrines are safe in your steady hands, and defended at a moments notice against all who would dare mock such sublime truths as magic, global floods and Lamanites. Elohim must be so proud of your efforts. Way to go!
Up! Up! and Away!
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
@LDStothecore
Then why do you watch these videos. Your masters have told you to avoid things like this. You are breaking the rules.
Naughty naughty! Now, go confess to the Bishop.
exmoagogo 1 year ago
@LDStothecore I had no desire to leave the Church. In fact, it took me six months to leave after I realised it wasn't true, because it was hard to let go. Like some in this video I was trying to help a friend with their testimony when I came across the facts that led to me leaving. To say that people 'find excuses to leave' is insulting and false and an attempt to hide from the possibility that what you believe could be false. Trust me, better the painful truth than a comforting lie.
rivenrock 1 year ago
@rivenrock Are you humble enough to consider that you might be mislead? Like I said before, I have done plenty of research and I still know the LDS church is God's church.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
@LDStothecore
Never fear! It's Super LDStothecore to the rescue! He is mighty and strong!
Not even these lowly apostates can penetrate his defenses!
But he keeps watching for some reason..........
exmoagogo 1 year ago
@LDStothecore Is it important for you to label them weak, or wicked, or easily led, so that you don't ever have to consider that maybe these are rational, strong people who questioned and got an answer that was difficult, but true? When I realised, after almost 30 years, that the Church was not in fact true I was so sad, because I had been happy there and still knew that I couldn't support a lie or pretend to have a testimony in order to stay. Now I'm glad, but it's not like I wanted to leave.
rivenrock 1 year ago
@rivenrock
An excellent reply. It is simply beyond most Mormons to even consider that their whole belief system is a sham and contrivance foisted on the world by a backwoods charlatan. It is much easier to denigrate and dismiss those who show the whole thing to be a fraud than it is to investigate, validate and support one's claims.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
@rivenrock It's not important to me, but it is sad. I once knew someone that constantly bashed the church after having been a member and serving a couple months of a mission. I finally asked him how he went from knowing it's true to hating it. He had no response.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
@LDStothecore That's a shame. I have a response, as do most people who leave - especially those who were active and attending when they made the decision. Even those who weren't don't necessarily have frivilous reasons for leaving. And to be quite honest, if they honestly have no testimony of the Church, then it doesn't matter if their reasons are frivilous or serious. If it is not true, they have no reason to stay, or to care about leaving.
rivenrock 1 year ago
@rivenrock The LDS church is true and anyone that is sincere and humble can have that same witness.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LOL!!! Keep 'em coming. I've got one.. You too can know that Smith was a true prophet because god really did tell him to have sex with all of those teenage girls & other men's wives, or a city one day magically floated up to space, or there really was a magical tower which changed everyone's languages, & glowing rocks really can help you see better in wooden submarines & aid one in translating the odd ancient text now & then. Yes, anyone who is "humble" can know the truth of these things. :P
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
@ExmormonFoundation Why must you attack The Blessed Prophet, Joseph Smith?? As far as Smith's cavorting with other women?? Shall we examine the case of Joseph Smith's wife, Emma, catching him porking Fanny Alger in the barn??
The ONLY reason Brother Joseph had his hands on Fannie's fanny was because he was EDUCATING her about what Fannie should never allow other men to do with her fanny!!
Why must you hateful AntiMormons constantly distort the TRUTH about our One True Church??
CounterCultureLives