Proportional Representation and Democracy: Don Ferguson:

[pkucharc]

The more democracy, the worse for the country.

[nemsison]

loved the part with the women vote.

[machoman8699]

MMP is taking away our real voting rights. Currently, we vote for each person as an individual with the leader of the province chosen from the party with the most people elected. If MMP gets put into place, we end up putting 39 unelected individuals into power.

[linuxluver]

You can't be serious. MMP gives you exactly the same "voting rights" you have now PLUS another vote that is a direct vote for a party province-wide. That second vote is also the vote that lets you ELECT those province-wide MMPs.

As it is today, your vote ONLY holds ONE MPP o account IF your vote makes any difference at all.

That party vote is what elects the province-wide MPPs. If they get no votes, they get no seats. Period. It's the votes that elect them and nothing else.

[OneRyt]

To quote:

"The defenders of the status quo have been repeating a statement about MMP that is fundamentally wrong: that the new at-large seats would be filled by "appointment" rather than by election.

Set aside for a moment the obvious question: why would a Citizens' Assembly of Ontario voters propose something so stupid? Because they didn't."

[Willyliam]

Hmmm, likening MMP to extending the franchise to women and eliminating the land-holding requirement is a bit of a stretch, to say the least.

[linuxluver]

Not at all. MMP ill give every Ontarian a vote they can sincerely cast for the party of their choice, knowing that it that party gets more than 3% of the party vote they will win seats in proportion to their share of the vote. Having lived under MMP for 11 years in NZ, that IS revolutionary.

[Willyliam]

You are missing the point, my dear. It doesn't matter whether one is arguing for the widely accepted and practiced demoratic systems of STV, FPTP, MMP or PR. The adoption of any of these systems is nowhere near as significant as extending the franchise to women and non-land holders. I understand that you support MMP, but to liken it to those two democratic milestones is disingenuous.

[linuxluver]

I don't agree. Giving a vote that actually ELECTS people to the more than 50% of voters who currently cast their votes and elect no one, IS on a scale comparable to the other two reforms.

[dirglemore]

Willyliam, the issue of female participation in electoral process is actually quite relevant to the MMP debate and Linuxluver should have pointed out that in the NZ case, minority and women representation improved dramatically with MMP - a well documented phenomenon as parties under FPTP tend to play safe and appoint white men to run in each riding. Under MMP, parties tend to compensate by appointing many female and minority candidates as their "list members".

[djheap]

Where is your "tested proof" that our current FPTP system free of error or fraud?

Some form of proportional representation is used -- without major problems -- almost everywhere in the world, with a few exceptions (like the U.S. where Guv'nor Jeb can always buy his brother Bush out of an inconvenient ballot result). The antiquated system currently used in Canada and the U.S. is certainly not immune to fraudulent abuse.

Problem-free MMP implementation: New Zealand, Germany, Scotland, Wales...

[linuxluver]

If there are more MPPs, then it is asier to access one. Mike Harris cut them from 130 to 103 ...and it ended up costing MORE money because they had to hire more support staff and open more offices. Ridings got much larger. Returning to 129 will help fix that damage that was done in 1995. The list MPPs will allow people to have access to MPPs from several parties, not just the single MPPs who won the local seat.

[emperorinsaino]

88th most linked YouTube video today in News and Politics.

[adaigen]

Brilliant! Bless you Don Ferguson! Vote MMP!

[davebekker]

Nice one. Vote MMP!