Gaza Solidarity Demonstration in Manchester, UK 3rd Jan 2009 - Part b

[robtuk75]

Now are they protesting against the muslim thugs that murder and target Christians in Gaza? Watch the videos on youtube to see how Islam treats people who hold a different religion. You can deceive some of the people but not all of the people. Truth sets you free and Christ is my only allegiance! May His judgement avenge their blood!

[romanali1]

"Now are they protesting against the muslim thugs that murder and target Christians in Gaza?"

No. Should they be? Maybe so. Are you?

Btw, Muslim is one who performs Islam. Islam doesn't allow harming of innocents. Self-defense is allowed however, as long as it does not transgress "reasonable" self defense. The meter for what is reasonable is already intrinsicaly placed within us, since we have God-given morality and believe in accountability.

[romanali1]

"Watch the videos on UTube to see how Islam treats people who hold a different religion"

Some people who claim to be Muslims indeed do terrible things. This does not mean Islam is to blame.

Hitler was a Christian. We don't blame Christianity for what he did. Let's be consistent.

I don't need to watch. I accept there are bad apples in every society. I lived in a Muslim country for some years. My Hindu barber didn't harm me with his cut-throat razor, and I didn't kill him. That's proof enough.

[romanali1]

Many Palestinian Christians have and continue to die from the illegal Zionist occupation; i.e. deaths caused by the Israeli military.

"You can deceive some of the people but not all of the people"

-- This is probably a true statement, but what's that got to do with me? Did you know that the Torah mandates that Jews aren't allowed to form a "homeland" until their messiah comes. Yes you believe he came as Jesus. We believe so too, but they don't. So why are they deceiving themselves that it's ok?

[romanali1]

"Truth sets you free"

-- Free of what? For me, truth is the truth. It doesn't set you free from anything, because that means that until you learn the truth you are shackled. My Lord is a merciful Lord. He does not shackle me in until I am fortunate enough to chance by some truth.

Islam says, the truth is there, and so is falsehood. Truth stands clear from error. You start from a neutral postion and you choose one or the other using your own free will.

[romanali1]

"Christ is my only allegiance!"

Great. For the purposes of clarity and making it easy for non-Xtians to understand , wouldn't it be better to say, Christ the son, God the father, and the Holy Ghost is my only allegiance?

..with the disclaimer that in fact this is not bad grammar, and that you indeed are correct in saying three things but using "is" instead of "are", since these three DISTINCT entites are actually one (and therefore not distinct at the same time)

[romanali1]

"May His judgement avenge their blood!"

So much for turning the other cheek. I thought he was supposed to be here for love. You make him sound a bit bloodthirsty. If not wantonly, then at least for revenge. God needs revenge? Can God get emotional? In fact can God get hungry ... not know that the fig tree is not in season? is not able to force it to bear fruit instantly? and the God curses the tree?

That's seriously below the belt.

We love Jesus. We don't attribute false stories to him.

[robtuk75]

So let me see, islam is a religion of peace but they commit the worst crimes, such as beheading american soldiers captured, cut the left breast of a black woman in somalia because she refused to convert, beheaded christians in indonesia.

Islam justifies all of these things in the holy books. If Islam is so great why do all the muslims flee their countries to come to the West? To escape Sharia Law.

Says it all.

[romanali1]

"islam is a religion of peace but they commit the worst crimes"

Notice the words you used... Islam is a RELIGION ... but THEY commit worst crimes

Islam and THEY are not the same. They are Muslims, i.e. those who affiliate with Islam. It does not mean they are model Muslims.

"Islam justifies all of these things in the holy books"

No it doesn't. Show the reference (with context) if you are truthful.

[romanali1]

"If Islam is so great why do all the muslims flee their countries to come to the West? To escape Sharia Law."

Not everyone flees. Why do people from the UK (for example) emigrate to Spain? ... For a better life in general; economic reasons.

It is presumtuous of you to think that the cause is the Shariah, especially since no country in the world actually implements the shariah as it was implemented in the time of the prophet pbuh. Not even Saudi. Shariah doesn't allow Kings.

[muslim123ish]

@romanali1 they came here to make money and live a good life not escape shariah

[neilam6]

catchy chanting there haha

[romanali1]

Thanks.

I partially lost my voice after it. (chuckles)

It was worth it though. The message has to be heard. :)

[JLHailes]

SO do you agree firstly that it isn't a racist state? Why do you shot it?

Isn't zionism the political movement to take the Jews back to Israel? Why is that wrong, they were there first after all??

[romanali1]

Israel is indeed a racist state. What I said in my first comment is that NOT ALL Jews are Zionists.

Zionists wanted a homeland, and got it (through force). Nevertheless, "Israel" was recognised by most nations in 1967.

Zionists are racist, terrorist, illegal land-grabbing persecutors of innocent people of Palestine (both Muslim [majority] and Christian [minority]). Zionists illegally OCCUPY extra Palestinian land OUTSIDE 1967 borders.

It is not mere occupation; it is increasing occupation.

[romanali1]

Israel did withdraw from Gaza recently, under pressure, but the situation didn't improve. The reason is, it withdrew physically from the territory BUT it's influence/control was not withdrawn.

Israel controls the border (except Rafah [Egypt]), it prevents food/goods/medicine to go into Gaza on excuse of preventing weapons smuggling, not only through border crossings, but the sea as well. It controls the airspace. It is a land, sea and airlocked open prison.

[romanali1]

Before Zionism (under Muslim rule), Muslims, Christians and Jews all lived in relative peace for about a thousand years. Nowadays, I think Muslims don't expect to "rule" again, though it would result in peace I believe, but at least create peace under the present rule by ending illegal occupation ... that is what the world is demanding!

Jews left Israel 2000 years ago, I think it is silly to demand it "back" on account of birth 2000 years later.

Holocaust survivors shouldn't create another one

[romanali1]

True Jews have always been against Zionism. They spoke out against it when it started, and continue to do so. The problem is, "half-Jews", ie the moderates who don't know the Torah as well as they should, grew up in Israel or in an illegal Israeli settlement, and because Israel/their settlement is all they know, they aren't going to accept they are in the wrong; but they are.

Real Jews know that they aren't supposed to have a homeland until the messiah comes; and Jews don't accept Jesus as him.

[romanali1]

In summary:

A sovereign nation/"state", as far as law is concerned, is defined by its leadership, so though not all Jews are Zionists; Israel IS a racist state.

Though Jews believe in superiority of Jewish race, some coexist peacefully with non-Jews, and we are ok with them. In fact, as far as theology, Jews and Muslims are closer than any other two religions.

watch?v=gs4mK_FEAjY

watch?v=X3AjnmDWDC8 (3 parts)

watch?v=1y6rh79OKVQ (you will LOVE this one, watch till end)

[JLHailes]

So just because jews think there religeon is the right religion there racist? I believe christianity is the right religeon but i'm not racist. Muslims believe what the believe is right and not what we believe.

To be racist is to be prejudice or discriminant to another race. It does also mean that people who think a race is superior is racist but that would make everyone racist. As every religeon believes what they believe is the truth and other religions aren't fully right.

[JLHailes]

therefore thinking they are superior to other religeons. Non religious people/athiest think there way is right and no god exists, therefore thinking there beliefs are superior.

[JLHailes]

So these people whose fault it isn't that they are in Israel, what do you want or expect them to do? They are in Israel that is there home and where they have grown up.

I am a christian, but i now that when the messiah returns, christians and jews go to heaven. Or are you going to say i'm wrong?

[JLHailes]

I disagree, Changing a name wouldn't do anything the Israeli people would be discriminated because of the hate if a Islamic government came into power. They also haven't occupied gaza all they have done is controlled the imports which is fair enough, as it protect them.

They don't demand it back, they were given it back, whether right or wrong. Israel is a recognised country by most countries. It is stupid like many do to deny this. This is hardly on the same scale as the holocaust...

[JLHailes]

The holocaust, was a slaughtering of people, by a man who was pure evil. A man who just wanted these people dead. And millions of Jews died in that. Hardly comparable to 600. Israel are in this to kill every palistinian, they want peace like palistinians but you don't want peace until all zionists are removed from israel!

[JLHailes]

I'm sorry but those channels are now open, they control it for there own safety. To make sure weapons that will be used against them don't get into gaza

[romanali1]

"So just because jews think there religeon is the right religion there racist?"

None of my statements suggest that thinking one is of the "correct" religion necessitates one to be racist. I have no idea where you inferred that from.

"To be racist is to be prejudice or discriminant to another race"

Indeed. Zionists have been prejudiced and discriminatory towards non-Jews, especially the Palestinians. Look at historical fact; don't let emotion cloud your judgement. See the links I gave you.

[romanali1]

"It does also mean that people who think a race is superior is racist but that would make everyone racist"

No, not everyone. I don't believe my race is superior. No Muslim believes any race is superior to another. See Qur'an 49:13 & Prophet Muhammad's last sermon.

You're confusing race and religion. Jews are a race. Judaism is a religion. Judaism is a religion for the Jewish race. Believing Judaism as true is fine. Believing Jews are better than us MAY be acceptable IF they didn't persecute.

[romanali1]

"So these people whose fault it isn't that they are in Israel"

It's their own fault. They have MIGRATED to Israel from Europe within the last 2 generations. They are not hereditary "Israelis". The Palestinians welcomed them, but didn't expect to be then driven out/killed when the migrants decided to take over.

"what do you want or expect them to do?"

Though return to Muslim rule would bring peace to the region, I am not expecting that, but at least stop the persecution of Palestinians.

[romanali1]

"I am a christian"

As are some of the Palestinians. Don't you care for them?

"when the messiah returns, christians and jews go to heaven"

Christianity believes that the Jews will all convert to Christianity, or will be killed by Jesus. It does not believe they will go to heaven as Jews; a race that "killed" your "God".

"Changing a name wouldn't do anything the Israeli people would be discriminated because of the hate if a Islamic government came into power"

Who said about changing name?

[romanali1]

I suggested changing the leadership and the attitude. Over a millennia of history shows Jews and Muslims coexisted peacefully when the Muslims had power. Half a decade of Zionist rule (with Christian backing) shows peace as a near-impossible dream. Colonialism made the West think it could just take/give away other people's land.

"They also haven't occupied gaza"

Please don't lie. Only recently they "left" Gaza, but by controlling the land, sea and air, their occupational control remains.

[romanali1]

"all they have done is controlled the imports which is fair enough, as it protect them"

No sovereign nation can have someone else controlling inflow/outflow of anything through its borders against its will. The "protection" of Israel is not acceptable if the protectionary measure KILL the alleged threat, who only want to live IN PEACE. You think they choose to engage in conflict hardship?! That's crazy! The "protection" of Israel is the thing that is creating the hate. They should relax more.

[romanali1]

"They don't demand it back"

Yes they do.

"they were given it back"

...by the British. A third party. Where the settlers legally bought land from Palestinians, that's fine. Those were some of the early ones. Now it is about "taking".

"Israel is a recognised country by most countries"

My morality is given by God. Not by countries. Look. Both France and USA have veto right in UN. EVERY time Israel is condemned by UN (with good reason), USA vetos it. When France vetos war; it is "criminalised".

[romanali1]

"This is hardly on the same scale as the holocaust"

One innocent life lost is too many. I didn't know you Christians could be so cruel.

"The holocaust, was a slaughtering of people, by a man who was pure evil"

I guess you don't notice the HUGE numbers of Palestinian dead because you rely on your mass media.

"Hardly comparable to 600"

As I said, one is too many. What if one of the 600 were you or your family? Don't have a memory of 2 weeks. Please compare the dead of the last 50 years.

[romanali1]

"they want peace like palistinians"

Thanks for admitting that the Palestinians want peace. I am glad you have this view of Palestinians, though it contradicts what you said earlier. You see, you need to be more coherent my friend.

"but you don't want peace"

Please don't presume to know my intentions. In Christianity, that would be considered blasphemous, because only God knows the unseen. Arrogance is not "Christian" is it? I've stated already I want peace. Why do you think I made this video?

[romanali1]

"I'm sorry but those channels are now open"

I don't play reactionary politics. There was a 3 hour truce for humanitarian aid. I hardly think that is something to shout about as a concession or an act of goodwill by Israel. It was a truce; meaning both sides agreed to conditions, so neither side gave something voluntarily. Hence it is not exactly something to shout about ... unless you don't mention that it was only for 3 hours, which you didn't ... as I would have expected.

[romanali1]

OK this has gone on long enough. You raised some arguments publicly, so I had to respond in public. I would have preferred PM for such lengthy communication.

Anyway, we have both made our points. Please don't post any more comments, because I don't want a debate. I made this video to share the message contained in it; not to have a lengthy discussion with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

Go in peace and try to not be so paranoid of Muslims. We don't want to kill you.

[JLHailes]

Israel is clearly not a racist state...just a load of people coming together that hate Jews!!!

[romanali1]

My video description says that we (Muslims, and other supporters of innocent people; who/wherever they are) don't hate Jews. We hate Zionism.

If a Jew isn't involved in Zionism, and wants peace; like there was for about a thousand years before "Israel" as we know it forced it's way in, then that Jewish person could not be any closer to the Muslim.

In terms of theology, no religion is closer to Islam than Judaism. The main difference is Muslims don't accept "chosen people" mentality.

[JLHailes]

So as long as they don't live in Israel and want peace then you like them. Why can't they live in Israel?

[romanali1]

I didn't say Jews shouldn't live in the land called Israel. Please read more carefully.

I said, the Zionist idea of Israel as a land exclusively for the Jews (operative word "exclusively"), which they have in fact expanded beyond legal internationally-recognised borders, where they choose to simply eliminate or drive out anyone in their way, is the objectionable position.

You clearly did not study the links I gave you, which are unbiased factual presentations.