Avro Vulcan XA897 Crash

[saabturbo16]

Also anyone see the film of the scimitar of the fleet air arm that went off the side of a carrier and people had to watch the plane sink beneath the waves with the pilot desperately trying to release the canopy so he could eject?

i wonder how many posters here were alive in that period of pushing aircraft design? remember this was the very first vulcan delivered to the RAF and broadhurst had woked his way up through the ranks and was a highly decorated bomber cmd survivor of ww2

[saabturbo16]

attaching modern day high tech thinking to that periods aicraft is misguided - Ejection seats were at an early stage of develoment in those days and in many instances didnt save crew members.

Look at the size of the crew bubble only the front part has clear panel areas and the bubble itself is very small.

how many ejection seats were fitted to the shackleton? none.

also the cockpit had to be manually removed before ejection taking up valuable time.

[telemetry9]

In an awful kind of way. The vulcan selective ejector seat design mimics British society. Perhaps the lucky ones are those that died - not so lucky for their families and children though.

It was purely money that stopped more ejector seats being fitted. I'm alright jack in the front - you boys in the back are f******d.

A tragedy of exclusiveness - a little like the United kingdom in general.

[xoio]

Supersonic?

Whilst it mostly operated sub-sonically, if what the narrator is correct, i wonder how much past mach 1 the vulcan could go, given that it has no variable intakes to create shock waves to slow the incoming air down...

[michaeljefferies909]

@xoio according to wikipedia it only can get to mach 0.96, and has a cruising speed of mach 0.86. so i'm presuming that it was transonic (ie some of the air flowing over parts of it is at supersonic speeds, even though the plane itself isn't), and the narrator mistook that to mean that the plane is supersonic

[xoio]

@michaeljefferies909

This is what i was thinking too.

Apparently the VC10 'could' nip supersonic in level flight it really pushed . Mach 1.01- .02

[197Bruce]

I understand that the crash was caused by the altimeter misreading due to the large wing causing a pressure increase under the wing. Also high-ranking staff subsequently not allowed on the flight deck due to 'rank-pressure' problems.

[Sqdrn1]

A stupid insensitive remark about ejector seats and class or costs. No large crew of this era gets a full compliment of ejector seats be that in the UK US or anywhere and I would imagine there are still today aircraft in the US and UK fleets that might offer ejection from below the canopy ( thus inherently the pilots) but not elsewhere. It does seem odd that on the Vulcan you couldn't use the escape hatch with the nose gear down but maybe the a/c was then assumed too low to benefit.

[guamsst]

@Sqdrn1 Right, The saying in the U.S. was that the B-47 crew chief wasn't given an ejection seat to make sure he did his job correctly....lol

It was still fairly new technology and not as much value was placed on life at the time either. As to the crash. It's obviously a structural failure and I doubt it was any fault of the crew. I am not aware of any aircraft type that has never crashed or had a mechanical failure.

[brooksdp]

My grandad and grandmother were headed to 'London International' as it was known then (Heathrow now?). The aircraft they were on had to circle around the airfield whilst the debris of the Vulcan was cleared up, according to them. I think that would be 1954 or 55?

[stretchmark8]

you are quite right,the three people in the back were never given ejector seats, it cost too much money apparently !!!!

[carroj9]

@stretchmark8 A Labour party decision having overturned the wishses of the designr and othr experts they went ahead with the decision to have no ejector seats so each crash 4 good men died for no reason other than money just as now the bastards never learn

[thedreamdealer]

there's some interesting reading at johnDASHdillonDOTcoDOTuk including excerpts from a letter by the Air Marshall and report findings etc

[mcwolfus]

if you went to Oxford university, then you could get the ejector seat, if you went to the other place-Cambridge, then you just got a paracute. even in a crashing aircraft, there is a class struggle.

[ianupton]

i can remember this. i was 15 at the time. we all thought it was going to blow up like an atomic bomb. we were really scared and some people even left to stay with relatives away from the area in case of fallout.

[ArcherBellGallagher]

Saw one fly over my house yesterday heading for the airshow in southport, great site

[LordFlasheart575]

Glynhoyland, the novelty wears off after a while, then it becomes a bit of an arse. I spent 16 hours in one earlier this year. And molthemackem, vulcans dont have afterburners. The only vulcans that flew with afterburning engines were the olympus testbeds and the rb199 testbed.

[sorePenis]

I love how the two public school posh boys get thrown clear by their ejector seats but the working class crew with no ejector seats burn in flames.

[MrOmniscient]

there's no political angle in this, go don your anorak!

[LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH]

@sorePenis Ridiculous comment. You display your inverted snobbery by assuming the RAF pilots were/are all public school boys. In WW2, the vast majority of aircrew were from grammar school backgrounds-NOT public schools. You are extremely cynical to say the least.

[carroj9]

@sorePenis One pilot had to do it twice and lost 8 crew, another rode it down and died with his crew, i would not have liked to have been forced to make the choice, all down to labour party caring more for money than the lives of valuable men they are not fit to lick the boots of. Yes labour failed them as much as they failed our soldiers and military personnel in the past 14 years.

[glynhoyland]

look , i no your all having an orgasm from "seeing it fly over your house" , iv been inside one if u want ask me and il tell you where u cn av a look inside one (its fuckin worth it belive me)

[Robsta1974]

you are a cunt , ill say no other words , go die in a corner you freak of nature , you have no freinds and you are gay

[elviskevinb]

i seen a vulcan crash at wingate ,,co durham many moons ago

[molthemackem]

I Saw the Vulcan that landed and is now at Sunderland, UK Air museum give a show at the last Airshow at RAF Usworth.

It flew over my brothers house on finals at around 500' but then went vertical to i guess at least 20,000 with AB's a truely awesome sight. i can still hear the noise...

[airraideagle]

My father saw the Vulcan that crashed into a landfill near Naval Air Station Glenview,

Illinois (near Chicago) in 1978.

[ferahgo90]

My dad saw one of these crash near his school in Spilsby, Lincolnshire, while playing football.

Anyone know which one it was?

[aviopromet]

XM600. All the crew jumped/ejected and were fine.

[ferahgo90]

Cheers! Good to know they all got out! Dad says that the pilot stayed in to make sure it cleared the houses

[pkamross]

check the full report. It was found that pressure differential could cause under-reading on the altimeters at low level (ie landing). Modifications were made to solve this.Weather minimums and PR pressure were a factor as you say.

[egerhardcore]

Have you been in a turkish prison?

[Ovechkin81]

I had the pleasure of visiting the Midland Air Museum in Warwickshire this past summer and was shown around the grounds by the custodian, who was himself a former aviator in the RAF. He took us inside the Vulcan B.2 (XL360) and the most disturbing piece of information I remember listening to was the fact only the two pilots had ejections seats, the other airmen had to escape from a hatch and parachute to safety. Unfortunately there wasn't always enough time to adequately inflate the parachutes.

[tjp353]

Ovechkin81. When I was an apprentice at Woodford we would sometimes help the old guys (ex Avro & RAF) work on Vulcan B2, XM603. One old boy used to fly in Vulcans and actually had to bail out of one. He was last out - just as the airflow was beginning to close the hatch.

He told me about one Vulcan crash where the pilots ejected but, due to a loss of communications (and the in-flight partition behind the cockpit), the 3 in the back didn't try to bail out and were killed on impact.

[tjp353]

(read this 2nd - it will probably appear first)

Ejector seats were considered for the Vulcan's 3 rear crew but since they all sat side-by-side facing aft an opening in the fuselage roof, the whole width of the cabin, wasn't structurally feasable.

One novel idea was 3 seats firing sequentially through 1 hole (middle first, then another would slide to the middle to fire, etc).

Not having ejector seats might seem old fashioned but today's Nimrods fly at low level without any ejector seats.

[speedbanana2008]

I was able to sit in the cockpit of a Vulcan at RAF St Athan a long time ago.

Only the pilot and co-pilot had ejector seats, but also the joystick/control column had sideways handles which would severely injure your legs if you ejected.

Therefore pilots would push the joystick forward to avoid having their legs chopped off when ejecting, which helped them, but probably made the chances for the other crew in the back very slim indeed. Bail out of a nosediving Vulcan anyone? No.........

[JohnBadElk]

speedbanana,It must have been a VERY long time ago.... The Vulcan is famous for having a fighter style control column,so RAF pilots didn't have to nosedive into the ground "to avoid having their legs chopped off"when ejecting-although I recall that Folland Gnat pilots DID have to have their legs chopped off so they could fit in the tiny cockpit......

[SAHBfan]

The idea was that in an emergency the rear seat crew were suppossed to bail out WW2 style, out of the crew door, whilst the pilot held the plane steady. Then he ejected when the rest of the crew were safely out.

Trouble is, if he's got time to do all that, then it isn't much of an emergency ^_^

[e633xx]

So what's the ultimate cause of the crash?

[jp3492]

Pilot error, they undershot the runway on an ILS approach - below weather minimums as there was intense pressure to make the airport for PR reasons.

[newforestroadwarrior]

I don't think that aircraft had an ILS fitted.

[jp3492]

Correct, it was GCA, not ILS, my bad, I believe that the cause was flying below minimums for the decision height to fly the visual touchdown. Fogged in at the time. They struck short of the runway, bounced, P1 and P2 ejected, rear crew and jump seat passengers died..

[scismgenie]

Downward ejection isn't that uncommon, the US B-52 Stratofortress has six ejection seats, on two decks, the two 'downstairs' eject through the floor.

[shaneasmith6]

may not be uncommon but sounds as scary as hell.

[tjp353]

scismgenie. Some early F104 starfighters had downward firing ejection seats too.

[Finglesham]

not much use at 100 feet though?

[dcs103]

Not really. On the other hand, upward firing ones aren't of much use in common emergency situations such as 100ft, inverted, either.

[Marauder0090]

So do the Bombadier and Radigator in B-52s..

[koko440]

loool

the old TV men were speaking weirdly :)

[Terrorbore]

crazy stuff, especially the ejector seat in vulcans, cant believe they ejected downwards o.o

[tjp353]

Terrorbore. The 2 Vulcan pilots ejected upward while the the 3 (sometimes 4) chaps in the back didn't eject at all - after opening the hatch they bailed out which obviously required sufficient altitude for their static line parachute to open. As an apprentice I was fortunate enough to meet an old boy who had bailed out of a doomed Vulcan. It's tragic, but not surprising, that the 4 men died in this vulcan during a landing accident as they had no way out - no time or altitude to help them escape.

[carlsplace]

this is just another example of the english "class system"...bombers only have pilot ejection seats in the indian air force too....get over it

[LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH]

What a ridiculous comment about the class system. FFS! So ALL RAF pilots are born with a silver spoon & a plumb in their mouths?! Engage your brain- it had more to do with design practicalities. I very much doubt the designers sat there & cynically said, "We must allow the upper class twits who pilot the aircraft to eject, but bugger the other plebs on board!" What a ridiculous concept. Class system my arse!

[grazyarnie]

Can someone explain me what pathe means ?

sorry for the question but I was not raised with english tongue...

thx in forward

[xlqex]

I'm English...and I don't know what it means.

[grazyarnie]

thanks

Maybe a vintage TV-show...who knows :o)

thx for your reply

[Michaelxxx1936]

Pathe News was shown as short programmes in cinemas up to around the early 1960's. As TV became more popular it was discontinued.

[grazyarnie]

thx for the information

Like the german Wochenschau in the postwar Germany...as I said thx for the info and your post

[Gramaisc]

Pathe was the name of the french brothers who founded Pathe News.

[grazyarnie]

thx for Your reply with that very profound information concerning my little question, I am very delighted how much people answered my question.

[scismgenie]

Ther french form of the root word for PATHETIC.

(Pathos)- (Laid Back, uncaring, pitiable.)

[grazyarnie]

thx for Your reply

it makes sense now...

greetings from Germany

[simon199418]

i like the vulcan but i hate that it only had 2 ejection seats only for the pilots

[mrnathanielvictor]

yeah i no the others had to drop out the undercarridge and hope the shoot deployed

[carlsplace]

the raf has been blighted by homosexuals since 1956....the vulcan is a joke

[vince14vince14]

Was 1956 the year you joined the RAF then?

[carlsplace]

no...i didnt hear about the poof influx till 1957 when i immediately enlisted....how about yourself?....and that ejection seat thingie sounds interesting

[mrnathanielvictor]

and what the fuck has th usaf ever done oh yeah get shot out the skies over vietnam and bomb women and children all over the world and your own men the raf employs profesionals the usaf employs cowboys and hillbillis go back to fucking your sister redneck

[carlsplace]

everyone in the usaf can spell professional....you moron...lol

[mrnathanielvictor]

im dislexic you fucking idiot if i wanted a english lesson ill take my cock out your mums mouth and ask her

[guerresinge]

Of course, dyslexia prevents you from using a spellchecker, and indeed, knowing how to actually spell 'dyslexic'.

Why don't you take your cock out of his mum's mouth and ask her what a spellchecker is?

Dick.

[carlsplace]

please feel free to stick your cock where the vacancy occurs

[carlsplace]

check out my comment above minidick....or dyslexic dick...you decide

[TillyWolves]

Unlike the Yanks, who have no class at all....

Yee Haa cowboys....its you dumb asses that got Bush elected...

[FalconKPD]

@TillyWolves What does that have to do with this video? And that makes you sound VERY classy.

[yak52aholic]

oh dear like every thing british its gotta have a class system.

[waspfarmer]

A huge step in military intelligence. Those pesky Ruskies (with French genes) won't get us! How be we pack a few highly trained personelle into the cargo area of that aircraft that was never designed for the purpose we will use it for? (Not enough French there). Who would have thought? Things explode every day.

[ayutthayatrojan]

Typical British solution - fit ejector seats for the pilot and co-pilot and forget the rest. No problem they were probably only non-com people. Another aspect no toilet or cooking facilities onboard either.

[ALANSHEARERISGOD]

No cooking facilities? They were well done.

[ayutthayatrojan]

To a crisp I expect!

[STURNWULFEN]

LAME BRAIN

[headshot992]

no its actually quite the opposite, he was wrinkly and soft

[RTFishall]

It was this crash that probably lead to the grounding of non-commissioned aircrew. After all, we can't have officers "banging out" leaving the NCO's behind. Not cricket old boy!

[kendo813]

There are still NCO aircrew in the RAF.

[TillyWolves]

Yep, they are all still in the taly ho brigade...

[jonhestananet]

brave lads ! respect for them

[cycimian]

Those were desperate times, with the cold war, Its sad the cost in life to perfect a weapon that only takes more life,

[megalolerz]

XH558 FLEW AGAIN TODAY! at COTTESMORE FOR COMPASS CHECKS

[telemetry9]

Not the greatest safety record.

[jsd23]

"Miraculously thown clear by their ejector seats" which the RAF refused to equip the backseaters with. Only the pilots got ejector seats.

[anthrax2525]

An extremely dumb decision on the RAF's part.

[DeathAngel84299]

i bet the other guys where like, oh shit, NO EJECTOR SEATS! THEY DIDNT BRIEF ON THIS--BOOM

[hudson501]

I recall seeing the British Vulcan bomber when it flew into the Chicago area for airshows back in the 60's and 70's. A fantastic looking aircraft in all white or camouflage. Sadly one of them crashed near Glenview Naval Air Station outside of Chicago back in the 1970's killing all on board.

[hxckid84]

apologies for the previous comment, it wasn't me.

[scepticchristian]

I was fortunate enough to fly in one (in the 5th or 6th seat) in both the early and mid 1980s. I was based at RAF Scampton (35 Sqn) and RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire. It was just a jolly and I was a supplier. Thanks for this video.

[johncr100]

What was the flight like?

[rockinroy555]

Greatest plane ever!

[mslrman]

My dad was there waiting to weigh the Vulcan but he never got to do that one, he used to go round the country weighing planes, after he retired he started a company making stainless steel exhausts for trucks and buses, his company was called Eminox

[ivanmorgan1963]

Supersonic! I guess the real speed was classified at the time. Great video though.

[OKIEMARK]

Not supersonic,but fast enough for the time it was one of the best bombers around

[Dean3000plus]

that is not funny and is very cruel i suggest you think before you say

[hxckid84]

hahahaha

[thunderstruck154]

No one has ever left anyone to burn alive in a Vulcan you dick, it's a design fault/feature that only the cockpit has ejector seats. Everyone else has to slide out of the egress door under the aircraft, which isn't an easy thing to do. I doubt any V bomber crew member would leave his mates to burn alive as you put it. You obviously know jack about the RAF or Vulcan's.

[ivanmorgan1963]

No it has happened - pilots had to save themselves. See the Malta crash in the 1970s. Oh and the plural is Vulcans.

[scismgenie]

I remember in the 1970s when one landed at my base in Alaska, I looked at it and said "what the Hell is that?"

[carlsplace]

i remember when you landed at my base in alaska...i said...what the hell is that

[tinvek]

when one crahsed on anglesey, they all got out ok

[tambarum]

You know nothing.Ejection Systems were planned for the rear seaters but Binned because The Vulcan was to be scrapped!!!Many,many years later She was scrapped-Commie labour decided,as today,that money is more important than peoples lives.

Every time that The Vulcans flew it was uppermost in the jockeys thoughts that the Rear Crew were Extremely Vulnerable.

Go into search engine and input Vulcan crash in New Zealand!!!!!

[ivanmorgan1963]

Okay the Vulcan was retired in 1984, under during the Tory era. Similarly the last flying one was retired in 1993 - also Tory time. Facts rather than rants please.