Peter Joseph amp;#39;s Response to Stefan Molyneux Zeitgeist Moving Forward

[thintwexaslem]

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[kropotkinbeard1]

ANYTIME you hear someone trying to use the "Marxism is evil" card your first thought should be that in probably 99.99% of cases they know precisely nothing about Marx. Those who do know Marx, which includes MANY people who may not agree with all aspects of his thought often respect it greatly. Marx has most recently been shown to be correct on many things, and they're still popping up every day. Peter is correct regarding the mind lock many have on the capitalist economy. Non-issue.

[cybermutagen1]

Okay it wasn't an "insane rant" by PJ, it was an "unsane rant". ;)

[cybermutagen1]

One last thing. It's because of THE STATE that this shiz has gotten completely out of control. The FED, the Congress, the Supreme Court, the White House and the citizens have all failed. PJ you read Mises? Reread his theory of the business cycle. Thanks to this insane rant by PJ I've heard enough of this video, thanks for the posting anyway. Stefan, you sounded like a clown too lol! Hey PJ, everyday call the Peter Schiff show and debate him on one topic at a time, be good practice for ya ;)

[cybermutagen1]

WOW! Just heard the next few seconds. Peter is really giving props to the "state". He says he's not in favor of the state either but at vid count 15:35 he loses all respect from anyone that understands the difference between corporatism and the free market. As I said, I advocate an RBE but this kind of rant just hurts the cause of TZM and shows sheer ignorance. You didn't like when Stef talked about gold standard and not our current system so don't talk about corporatism like its a free market

[cybermutagen1]

PETER IS WRONG on at least one point (haven't heard it all yet). At vid count 15:16 he says that the state breaks up monopolies. The state actually helps monopolies and cartels via corporatism.Google: socialism vs corporatism by Ron Paul for a better understanding. I advocate an RBE but TZM needs to separate the free market from corporatism. The legal system, also corrupt. RBE will ONLY happen in a free market of volunteerism. First step in transition: elect Ron Paul.Try RBE under Mussolini lol!

[GtheMVP]

Peter the pussy wouldn't debate one on one, typical cult style, hiding behind his sheep.

[zeitguy311]

you FAILED as an intellectual Stefan Molyneux !!!!!!!!

[TheSchaefReport]

PJ, why are you even arguing with this dickhead? Stefbot likes bit coins for Christ's sake. He's off his rocker. Anyway, all this arguing and debate is really meaningless. The current system is unsustainable and will eventually implode, therefore your focus should be on preparing for that - not on arguing about which alternative is better. That discussion is important, but it should take place after the collapse.

[DayTradersWin]

Invitation - friend and subscribe to my channel - hot day trading videos to come

[zealotnut]

@Akibadono *Sigh* There you go again. On the contrary, i'll do anything to destroy the corrupt, failed and immoral system we live in today, please refrain from presuming you know anything about me whatsoever.

Hydroponics don't employ the natural energy of the sun, as i said - not for me.

'H G. Wells had alot of good ideas', is that not praise? Peter Mercola's middle name is Joseph, he sings the praises of Wells too.

[zealotnut]

@Akibadono 'Fucking wake up'. Who the fuck do you think you fucking are? The food industry of the entire world is not unsustainable, it is very very badly managed. By design. Yes, i know all about the necessity to leave ground fallow...don't need any lectures on agriculture thank you. You praise H. G. Wells too as well as peter mercola, you're spokesperson? Enjoy your cult, admittedly not as bad as $cientology, but a cult all the same.

[zealotnut]

@Akibadono Such as skyscrapers of hydroponically grown vegetables? Not for me. I do not think in terms of nation states, government or any other patriotic nonsense...it's just one step from fascism.

Jaques has said plenty of things.

Jaques Fresco hob nobs with elitists and Peter Joseph Mercola praises H. G. Wells.

hmm

[zealotnut]

@Akibadono Oh how horrible.

Pls explain why you think it's o.k. for Jaques to endorse Agenda 21?

[zealotnut]

@Akibadono erm....Jaque Fresco at the Rio Earth Summit?

[711Daniels]

Omg people are crazy tzm is nwo it would have a lot more funding buddy it so isnt

[zealotnut]

The Z.M. is a U.N. front and therefore should be rejected as it is predicated entirely along elite lines.

[rebelutionary503]

@zealotnut What aspects of TZM would cause harm to society? These UN front accusations are empty if you dont explain why the system they advocate would cause harm

[SiYanara]

@zealotnut Please explain yourself, I dont understand your statement " it is predicated entirely along elite lines " if you listen to what the TZM and VenusProject purpose you will understand they are no "elites" in this society. So I'd like a clear answer.

[zealotnut]

@SiYanara Parallels to Agenda 21 much?

[crud4]

As Molyneux should know private property is coercive and if given the choice between collective ownership of the means of production (freedom) and submitting to a boss who will take a large portion of the fruits of your labor only an idiot would choose submission and exploitation. I'll suggest Molyneux and any other free market capitalist masquerading as 'voluntarists' read Kropotkins Conquest Of Bread- especially the chapter on expropriation. I'll be over here holding my breath.

[crud4]

Of course it wasn't voluntary. Land was taken from the peoples and private ownership of the means of sustenance forced them into playing the game. It started when feudal lords/kings began selling farm land to an aristocratic class and this helped a minority class accumulate wealth. Over time everything from water supply to industry was held in this classes hands so the only way to survive was to submit to the system they were forming. There's nothing voluntary about this.

[crud4]

A society based on wage slavery can never be voluntary. Any society where a minority controls the industrial means of production will be coercive. Freedom and equality is all centered around our relation to the means of production/sustenance. The actual history of capitalism is quite different than the fantasy world Molyneux lives in. I'd like to hear Molyneux's description of primitive accumulation as happened in reality. How did wage slavery/capitalism arise? Was it voluntary?

[IronsidesX]

This guy, Stefan Molyneux claims that the resource-based system has been tried before in the 18-or-1900's, but it never was tried on a global scale. Also, people never had the level of understanding we have today, to motivate them to make it work.

[stutek]

You should mark this video as a response to the original to attract more views.

[bdmenne]

Peter Joseph, you are connected, it seems, to the simple truth. It is a pleasure to see you at work. I also believe you have good intentions and so, I would like to have a cup of coffee/tea with you to chat.

[mikedietrich]

Co-Herced. Co-Hercion. Oh wait. There's no H. Not even a silent one. This makes the video hard to listen to.

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

12:42 mises would not support very much of the current system let alone fiat currency! slander! the austrian science is not limited to fiat currency.

12:50 who's entertaining marxist ideals then?

13:20 what comes first? the job or the money? the job stupid. plant a tree to recieve the fruit. economics 101 FAIL. "hahaha"

15:10 no tangible basis? is the threat of prison if you sell weed not a tangible basis for the argument that government makes llife difficult. you're mad.

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

11:59 for an austrian school view on sustaining natural resources: walterblock [DOT] com/wp-content/uploads/publica­tions/EconomicsandtheEnvironme­nt [DOT] pdf YOU'RE FULL OF ASSUMPTIONS!

11:42 mises would not support very much of the current system. fiat currency included. the austrian science is not limited to fiat currency.

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

11:59 for an austrian school view on sustaining natural resources: walterblock [DOT] com/wp-content/uploads/publica­tions/EconomicsandtheEnvironme­nt [DOT] pdf YOU'RE FULL OF ASSUMPTIONS!

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

11:25 those corporation NEED the state to preserve their market share, employees... because the state is the only thing that can enslave the market. and by market i mean us. get it... free market.

12:19 you've read numerous things "ABOUT" lvm. yet have you read any actual LVM?

12:30 there is no "market system". there is a market and there is control system called the state. the only market system is the market regulation system. a free market is free of the system

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

10:45 they compete against new ideas by bribing the state to regulate against the competition. without the state regulating the market by force, competition would be to outdo your competitors on innovation. F A C T.

OK, it's late here. I'll be back to finish this 45 minute corruption of language.

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

8:40 you clearly know nothing of stefans on record views on sustainability and the environment. so leave out the drama.

9:40 "where we are today" you observe problems stemming from statism and not from the free market. statism regulates the market - the internet, technology, batteries, home construction... all regulated, all problems dude!

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

6:45 we CAN'T "build things on our understanding" or "follow the state of science" exactly because we are not allowed. the trade barriers are coercive.

8:00 you don't get value from corporations backed by the coercion of the state. but you might just see it on a free market. the most affordable things are the least valued. you know about scarcity yeah? the free market drives efficiency, it is coercive monopolies that don't (the system).

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

6:12 the kind of cost efficiency you mean (corporate policy pretty much) is actually very easy to compete with. unfortunately the coercion of the state grants corporations monopolies via legislation so others are not allowed to make superior products.

6:30 we actually don't consume at a rate even high enough to maintain employment. 10% unemployed and surplus wastage everywhere. that's the machine and it's not a free market.

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

4:20 there's nothing wrong with interest and what you're asking to see is actually the free market. i would like to see it too. without interest there is no progress.

5:40 read ayn rand please. your "should" is a implies a universal application, which you now withdraw with an "if you wanna make something that lasts". then you describe a free market ("exchange parts") situation which you then say can't be a market.

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

3:20 if i GIVE you some gold, you can use it as money. if you dig some gold out of the ground, it's actually yours. unless you believe you don't believe in property rights (like owning your own mind and body).

3:50 interest is the cost of a loan. money is not always fiat dollars and sheckles. it can be favours, labour, beans... the produce of the earth, which would be sustainable in a free market but whatever, i digress.

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

2:00 stefan has never claimed that the system is free. of course you fail to address the fact that stefan does not define this system as being a free market. thus your following point about the system being socially darwinistic does not follow.

2:35 OH BUT IT IS RELEVANT! The point you make about currencies being innately based on the "need for coercion" is unfounded. Scarcity does not absolutely cause coercion.

3:00 so you rule out defacto money. yet somehow this means ALL money is ALWAYS debt?

[AnarchoCapitalistTV]

00:30 by definition coercion is not a staple of the free market market interactions. if there is coercion in a trade it is no longer a "free" trade. you talk about "the free market" as if it a statist system.

00:50 the choice to leave the system (volunteer their NON-participation). duh!

01:00 (not even english) people who can't find a job are not in that situation because of the free market, they are in that position because of the system.

01:25 "this system" (we live in) is NOT the free market

[mrebus]

Building a road is a scientific concept! Ok. Im a engineer and one thing I can tell you is I've never met an engineer that agrees on how to best build a road. Is it safe. does it use this amount of resources. should it use that amount of resources. thats just for roads.

[mrebus]

Who makes the decisions?  and what if my research suggests a different allocation than yours.

[SunBeamsan]

3. Interest are NOT required in a currency system. Currency is simply a medium of exchange by which the two parties involve voluntarily chose to trade. If X has 20 bananas, and Y has 40 stray berries, and they want each other's products, then they can trade. Or they can use another medium of exchange lets say leaves, they can do that too. Both parties have to have some sort of value vested on the traded goods.

[SunBeamsan]

1. If you ask any poor person in Africa or Indonesia if they want to work in a factory, or go back to live in sub-human tribal conditions in the forest, most will tell you they want those factories. They chose move TO the factories, no one is forcing them.

2. When business CHOSE to acquire a loan to get started, they voluntarily agree to take on some extra debt because of the potential benefit outweighing the cost of the loan. May not work every time but thats their decision.

3.

[Candeh77]

Stephan is typical egocentric, his head is filled with dogmas, the guy cannot even translate the supstance from free market to resource based economy. Unfortunate for him, he has invested a lot of time and effort to be that self assured arrogant jerk, that he has lost his hair in process, making him less attractive to woman, hence making his neurosis grow even more.

The sources are finite, Stephan, if you dont want to belive that just look at your hair dude.

[AwesomeTurd]

@Candeh77

ROFL man i LOLed.. but.. dont blame stephan, blame the system, the system make him that way.

peace:)

[WorldFleece]

so I just watched this guys opening video on freedomain's website.....he just spent 15min. debunking the arguments he made here....cultural bias ect. wtf?

[WorldFleece]

Im glad you can do this Peter. Sounds like your patience for Public Relations is wearing thin. This is the new form of repression; corporate PR, soft insults and meaningless counterpoints. Keep repeating them and the public cant make informed decisions. It is scarry to know that many of the people that practice this are unaware of what they're actually playing at; repression.

It's always amazing to see people caught-up in the cultural homogeny. (not hedgemony)

[Rickdeckard2020]

@MoneyIsSilver

How does a "Free Market" as you imagine it, Provide an environment where a situation cannot be taken advantage of? If someone is starving the situation may coherce his to accept a trade he would not otherwise agree. Do you/SM advocate an unconditional basic revenu for all so that all basic needs are met to the extent where work becomes voluntary choice rather than a necessity?

[MoneyIsSilver]

Ok, 2 minutes in and its pure straw man. He's arguing against the system as it is now as if Molyneux supports the status quo. He's also still arguing as if the current system is a free market.

He's either really dumb, or really evil. I'm guessing the latter.

[petepamf]

@MoneyIsSilver Evil is a loaded word that means nothing..

Just saying.. You might want to elaborate.

On second thought.. Don't bother.

[alzico]

@MoneyIsSilver Either-or argumentation coupled with subjective identifications (dumb/evil) which have absolutely no existential referents. Such outdated rhetorical devices almost always attack the person and not the argument. Attacking the person is the tactic of the intellectually lazy or emotionally invested to discredit ALL contained points via a top-down character assassination by use of pejoratorative labelling. Thanks for being our case study of the day in how not to conduct a debate.

[MoneyIsSilver]

@alzico Didn't you just attack the person with your comment!..lol..nice try, but epic fail there!

[alzico]

@MoneyIsSilver Err actually no, my post specifically defined the action of 'attacking' in this context as pejorative labelling of the individual behind the arguments which if you actually bother to read the post you'll see I did not revert to, dealing only with content of your comments. If you want to play with semantics we can swap attack for deconstruction, yes it was a deconstruction of your post. Thank you come again.

[MoneyIsSilver]

@alzico The whole statement is attacking a supposed ad hominem which plainly isn't the case. Ad hominem is attacking the messenger WITHOUT debating the merits. I did argue specifically that Joseph was using a straw man by framing Molyneux as supporting the status quo.

YOU failed to address that point and instead launched into a pseudo-intellectual rant that I'm intellectually lazy, while never addressing the merits of how Joseph presents Molyneux's views. That's ad hominem, dumbass.

[MoneyIsSilver]

Lemme guess...comments censored

[blancman]

@MoneyIsSilver no. just a new video (for now) and you're the first comment. congrats! :)