"Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection" (CCC 2357– 2359). For the record homosexuality becomes a sin when it is acting on. The desires themselves are not sinful. This is when the church is against homosexuality
certainly the church should accept gay people, but it shouldnt be endorsed. it should be treated like any other sin; something jesus can do a work on. the bible talks about people sleeping with their own gender as an abomination. BUT WE ALL HAVE SIN, so dont look down on gay people, theyre just like every other sinner. but please, dont endorse it. thats just not biblical. I'm a sinner, i have alot of lust. i dont endorse lust, nor should homosexuals endorse homosexuality. jesus can help!
@MilkedMilkism the fact that the church should accept gay people is good, finally some breakthrough... what you said directly after cancels it out... why should it be treated as a sin? and the bible doesn't directly say someone sleeping with their own gender is an "abomination" so however you interpreted that is wrong, even if you are not going to agree with me on that, do you also think it's right to stone people to death? or separate menstruating women from everyone else?
@MilkedMilkism because the bible says those things 2... and i don't like the way you say "endorse it" like we're advertising now? since when has religion ever been about advertising or ENDORSING? the only thing you should "endorse" is love... and in my eyes, that includes ANY kind of love, not just heterosexual love... i agree that everyone sins, but i disagree that just because two people of the same gender love eachother and act upon it that in itself is a sin, because two heterosexual people
@MilkedMilkism can do the same thing, and they won't be "sinning".... it's just unfair and unjust and it's not about jesus "helping" homosexuals... gay people are born the way they are, with a certain sexual attraction to whomever they fall in love with... according to you the only way these people can live "justly" is to suppress every urge they have their entire lives? that is very unfair and wrong... that is why i say your logic is severely flawed...
@hermione1135 l, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13)
seems pretty hard to misinterpret to me. Biblical proof that it can indeed be treated as a sin. However i do acknowledge that this is old testament and we are no longer under the law. Jesus put an end to
@hermione1135 stonings and such. I havent considered the menstraution, and i would say know but im uneducated in that so i wont comment for now. Clearly this man, and many others, are trying to put homosexuality in a good light, thats what i mean by endorsing. You say gay people are born the way they are. Good, that makes them like me. I was born with sin too. I dont put myself above gay people, trust me, i love them. Just like any other sinner, they can be justified through jesus just by asking
@hermione1135 well, that was disappointing. i was rather looking forward to a nice rebuttal for me to consider. Just dont see me as the westboro baptist church or anything, im not like that. I love and accept gays, same as i do with all sinners. I'm thrilled that there are so many gay christians, especially given the taboo surrounding that issue.
I don't think quoting Leviticus is helpful. The first testament also calls for death as a punishment for eating shellfish, disrespecting parents and combining two forms of thread. Before you look at homosexuality from a religious perspective, realise that sexuality is something that cannot be changed, and is unhealthy to suppress. leading to depression, self abuse and suicide. It is no different from race. The healthiest way to express sexuality, gay or straight, is to accept it and express it.
@patrickwright1 i acknowledged that we are no longer under that testament, but i still think it bears some validity. is this any better, seems just as explicitly against it
"Do not be deceived: neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God" (Corinthians 6:9-10)
To suggest that old testament laws have any validity is ridiculous. Are you suggesting that the 'abomination' of combining two threads or eating shellfish still has validity? That is a contested quote from Corinthians, and varies according to what bible and interpretation you read. The term 'homosexual' did not exist until recently. The concept of a homosexual relationship as we know it today did not exist until recently. The passage has been suggested to refer more to male prostitution.
I believe religious people have to hold two positions on homosexuality. One has to be based on empirical, secular evidence, the other can be based on biblical teachings. While I am not spiritual, I believe that the bible has no specific teachings on homosexuality itself nor the specific act of male to male sex. I believe that homosexuality is deeply rooted in nature and a variation of human sexuality. I believe that if God exists, he did not create it for it to be repressed.
@MilkedMilkism Would God really create different skin colour, eye colour and hair colour, and then call them sinful? Sexuality is no different to this. We have discovered a lot about sexuality only very recently- I believe it is very dangerous for the church to adopt a hostile attitude to homosexuality when gay youth, simply because of the way they are born, have a six times higher rate of suicide.
@patrickwright1 this is a very non biblical perspective to what the church should be doing, and guess what, the church is based on the bible. Also, i dont like you using the word hostile. maybe catholics are yes, but my church for one would welcome homosexuals with open arms, just like they would for any other person.
The church still has a social responsibility to not drive queer youth to the point of depression, self abuse or suicide by denigrating their sexuality and demanding they change. By suggesting gay people who want to express their sexuality are participating in an evil is itself a form of abuse. Demanding they change or suppress their sexuality, which is impossible, is equally harmful. Can you explain how a prohibition on a particular sexuality is different from a prohibition on a particular race?
This depends on what you call "Gay". Usually it is said about Unchaste Homosexuals who are deep in their sexual sins. If someone suffers from SSA (same sex attraction) but is chaste, then they are truly loved by God and a blessing to the rest of us. The term "Gay" needs to be redefined, and in a big way. It's not about being "Gay" its about being chaste - and 2 men or 2 women having sex can NEVER be chaste.
@willthacheerleader18 You are a gay man, who has a god delusion. That is a whole lot different than identifying as gay catholic. And, most people don't have a clue about the Catholic faith, sadly
@So congrats my friend. To have the feelings for another man is not a sin, so keep in celibat than you dont commit a sin. Stay strong and in sanctity. I will pray for you, pray for me as well, to be faithful to God is not easy.
heterosexuality is a sin when is used outside marriage as well. God create the penis to the vagina, is a natural order but must be used inside of the Matrimony. The Church will never acept marriage between gays because goes against the Gods Law. You gays dont acept any of this, you want to do what you want, just like hetero couples that want to have sex before to marry and free casual sex. Ok I understand you want to be free. so be!!! But dont expect go to Heaven in end, just that.
@willthacheerleader18 The Church already acept the gays in the Church, but the Church cant understand them marrying, having sex. There are few gays that deeply can understand that. I have a lot of friends that says to be catholic but they have sex with every boyfriends they have, is wrong!!! You cant do this. Try to read the Commandments, understand the order of nature.
@willthacheerleader18 All the gays are welcome into the Church, in Brazil there are many gays working inside of the Church, but they live in celibat, because to feel something for the same sex is not wrong, the wrong is sex, that is what they want the Church acept, God creates the vagina for the penis, but none understand that. I come from a rich family in Brazil, was good to live free doing crazy things, until I decide to understand God, live in sanctity.
The catholic church helps a lot of gays and lesbians people all around the World, but homossexualism is a sin, is on that the Church will never acepts.
@anapaulacarlson yes that may be true, but we must also not generalize. We live in a gray world. The church is still called to love and help these people, just as they should not shut out divorced and remarried catholcis, which I can assure you there are many more of those than there are gay catholics.
The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality is an intrinsic evil. You cannot be gay and Catholic at the same time. This bloke and all his followers should be excommunicated.
@sukka113 actually that is where you are wrong. Look at what the Catechism of the Catholic Church actually teaches: that homosexuals are born into there situation. They are equal children of God and it is the duty of the Church to protect, help, love, care for, and support them. The church does not recognize being attracted to the opposite sex as a sin, it views sex outside of marriage a sin. It does not hate gay people, merely gay sex.
no no no no no no.. people, catholicism and homosexuality are like water and oil. mainly because this religion dooms gay persons. if you want to be a happy homosexual person you don't need to seek god through catolicism. Remember, catholic religion is sexist and homophobic no matter what. there might be nice persons but they'll never accept gays since it's one of the worst sins on Earth.
LEVITICUS 18:22: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is abomination."
LEVITICUS 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."
This is really just one of the reasons why I left Christianity. I didn't want to be part of something that thought this crap.
@willthacheerleader18 You are a child of God, who has same-sex attraction. That is a whole lot different than identifying as gay. And, most people don't have a clue about the Catholic faith, sadly.
1 CORINTHIANS 6 : 9 TO 11 SAY SURELY YOU KNOW THAT THE WICKED WILL NOT RECEIVE GOD'S KINGDOM. DO NOT FOOL YOURSELVES: PEOPLE WHO ARE IMMORAL, OR WORSHIP IDOLS, OR ARE ADULTERERS, OR HOMOSEXUAL PERVERTS, OR WHO ROB, OR ARE GREEDY, OR ARE DRUNKARDS, OR WHO SLANDER OTHERS, OR ARE LAWBREAKERS - NONE OF THESE WILL RECEIVE GOD'S KINGDOM AMEN.
@videresims3 on the contrary, you can believe there is a God without going to church or practicing organized religion... especially when you know you're not welcome...
Why would they consider themselves Catholics if they don't believe in what it teaches? The Church should change them, not the other way around. Think about it man...!!!
@manuel400 Being Catholic is more than a religion, like being Jewish it is a cultural identity. Many want to continue to participate in that heritage, whether or not they believe in or live 100% the teaching. Rather than be hidden hypocrites, some feel the need to be openly welcoming. Masturbators, fornicators and contraceptors are committing mortal sin according to the Catechism. Gays are much easier to pick on.
@manuel400 because all christians are sinners.. and no one is perfect. There are also catholics who have had abortions, catholics who have had sex outside of marriage, catholics who have used condoms, catholics who are divorced and remarried, catholics who are alcoholics, catholics who have commited murder, catholics who have robbed, catholics who do drugs, etc.. but they are still catholic. No human can percectly follow everything the church teaches. Christ died for our sins, and we try for him
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex...Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358...This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity...
If you cannot do this, you are not Catholic by choice.
@ebolingUtube The Catechism also says that chastity involves an "apprenticeship in self-mastery" which is "long and exacting work". It says, "One can never consider it acquired once and for all." That means that just because one fails doesn't mean they're not a Catholic. Possibly you haven't mastered chastity, but I'd never say you can't be a Catholic. And I'd never assume that spiritual friendship can't exist within a same-sex intimate relationship.
You did not fully read what I posted or misunderstood. I never said that one who fails cannot be Catholic. I said one who openly professes and practices something that is anti Catholic cannot be Catholic.
What does that have to do with my chastity? We are not talking about me. We are talking about people who proudly proclaim a homosexual lifestyle and claim to be Catholic at the same time.
@ebolingUtube There is no "homosexual lifestyle". There is lust and chastity and everything in between, but how homosexual people live their lives is as diverse as all humanity. Keep the standard of behavior aimed at the virtue, not on the orientation.
Really? Having sex with someone of the same gender is not a lifestyle? Well, I am sorry, I don't agree and neither does the Catholic church. That is a mortal sin and it is anti-Catholic.
So I would ask again, why would anyone who publicly professes to be having a homosexual relationship, want to call themselves Catholic?
I don't have any idea what you mean by "standard of behavior aimed at virtue not orientation".
@ebolingUtube Sorry that was awkward phrasing. When I say "aimed at virtue", what I'm saying is, we should speak of lust as a mortal sin and chastity as a virtue, and love as God. But, none of those things are dependent on sexual orientation, so I don't see the point in demarcating between gay/straight when lust is wrong and chastity is right for everyone.
You are right, we should speak of lust as a mortal sin and chastity as a virtue. When a homosexual publicly professes their sexual preference, are you saying that they are not willfully having sex with the same gender?
Because if that is what you are saying, I don't believe you. I am questioning those homosexuals who are not chaste as you put it.
Why would you want to openly claim you are homosexual if you are chaste?
@ebolingUtube "Why would you want to openly claim you are homosexual if you are chaste?"
Because lying is a sin too, and the lie is otherwise too hard to maintain. Because to have a homosexual orientation is NOT in itself a sin, and there shouldn't have to be any shame to admit something about oneself when one hasn't done anything wrong. Anyway, there is a degree of anonymity on the Internet. How the Catholic Church treats gay people affects me, and YouTube is a place to talk about it.
(continued) There is another ulterior motive I have for disclosing my sexual orientation on YouTube. Before you know anything about me, I've exposed your immediate and palpable suspicion of me. I can go on GayChristian[dot]net or talk to other Catholic sites where chastity is promoted and I am not immediately vilified as a wanton sinner. By contrast, I've gone on plenty of other pages and been told that I am contaminating the Church with my presence. This way, I know who I'm dealing with.
Do you think I am chastising you? On the contrary, you are very defensive. I am chastising what you have said about the Catholic church which is not true. I am concerned about everyone else who might read your incorrect statement and think it is ok to have sex with anyone outside of marriage (opposite gender).
You think very highly of yourself if you think I am talking about you only. You responded to my original question not vice versa.
@ebolingUtube I am not telling people that gay sex is acceptable or not a sin. What I'm saying is that straight people fornicate every day of the week and are still welcomed in their respective churches and still identify as Catholic. I'm trying to have you and others not slam the door in gay people's faces.
I perfectly well understand that you're writing to specific posters or to the larger Internet audience generally and not just me, but I posted a response, which others may do as well.
@DalisYT Re: I am not telling people that gay sex is acceptable or not a sin.
Yes straight people do fornicate and they are wrong also. If I saw a title that said "Catholic Fornicator" I would say something as well.
Welcomed into the church for fornication? Really? Not if they publicly proclaim it. I don't know of anyone who is Catholic and publicly proclaims fornication.
I would be amazed if I found one homosexual who was actually practicing chastity. That would be an awesome Catholic.
@ebolingUtube "I would be amazed if I found one homosexual who was actually practicing chastity. That would be an awesome Catholic."
That's way out of line. That's the sort of comment that concerns ME going out over the Internet. It's discouraging, as if you don't think that homosexuals are capable of living chastely. This is not what the Catechism says. Go to the Gay Christian Network (gaychristian[dot]net). There is an ample representation of what they call Side B, or celibate gay Christians.
Ok, If it is not true, then I apologize! I certainly hope it is not true but the claims against homosexual priests make it hard to believe. 81% of pedophile cases in the Catholic church are homosexual in nature. I have several sources if needed.
I would like to ask the question, why would one proudly proclaim homosexuality and Catholicism if it is against Catholic doctrine?
@ebolingUtube "why would one proudly proclaim homosexuality and Catholicism if it is against Catholic doctrine?"
If you're asking why someone would proclaim homosexual sex while Catholic, they might be members of Dignity or a liberal church, meaning they want doctrine to change. If you're asking why someone would acknowledge homosexual attraction while Catholic, that need not be the case at all but rather a simple acknowledgment of one's cross to bear.
@DalisYT Re:I am not telling people that gay sex is acceptable or not a sin.
Just because someone says they are Catholic does not mean it is true. One needs to believe what the Catholic church teaches to be Catholic.
I do know Catholic wanna bees who claim they are Catholic and say that abortion is ok. Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy and Joe Biden ring a bell. They are not Catholic because they do not believe what the Catholic church teaches about abortion.
I have no suspicion of you. I only have concern about your claims and the Catholic church.
As a Catholic, you cannot have sex outside of heterosexual marriage without being in a state of Mortal sin. That is my concern.
Your lifestyle concerns me only to the extent that Christ does not approve and it is sad that you have chosen it. But most people reading anything on this site also have chosen it.
@ebolingUtube Again, I said I DON'T lie. You're misquoting me completely. I already know you distrust me. You really should take my word for it or you'll be the one acting inappropriately.
Your profile and discussions have lead me to believe that you are a practicing lesbian. If it is not true, then remove it. Unless you want me and others to not believe you what you post.
Are you trying to say that you can go to confession, confess that you had sex with someone of the same gender and then do it again the next day?
You cannot make a confession if you are not sorry for the offense and fully intend to never commit that offense again. If you make this kind of a confession, it is invalid according to the Catechism of the Catholic church. Why bother confessing?
@ebolingUtube Not at all, although there is precedence for that in the straight world. I'm saying that to have sex with anyone in opposition to a priest's counsel (barring a compulsion) is schismatic. But, this is not unique to homosexuals, and the object of lust is irrelevant. So, why harp on homosexuals to the exclusion of others? Plenty of gay people do not live as you describe but are coupled in chaste relationships. Is this any less a gay lifestyle, though the Church may sanction it?
I think you are misunderstanding what I am asking and saying. If you want to live your life with a partner of the same gender and have sex with that partner, have at it. I won't try to stop you any more than one time. I will also not say anything against your choice to do that because there are plenty of other Christians who will say something to you.
Why do you want to call yourself a Catholic if you don't believe the Catechism?
Being a homosexual is not a sin but acting on it is. Why would any of you want to be called Catholic when the church clearly teaches that it is a mortal sin.
You cannot go to confession without being truly sorry for committing the sin, so I don't get it. There are plenty of Protestant religions that allow any kind of sexual behavior. Why not become one of them? What is the deal with wanting to be called Catholic when you openly profess that you do not believe what the Catholic church teaches?
@ebolingUtube If you think conversion is a question of throwing a dart at a phone book or shopping for the church that best fits how you are now, you're not going to understand the dilemma of being a Catholic who is also gay.
@DalisYT Re: If you think conversion is a question of throwing a dart at a phone book
What are you talking about? I never said you cannot be homosexual and Catholic at the same time. I said you cannot practice homosexual acts and be Catholic at the same time. Why argue with me; I did not write the Catechism? Argue with the Catechism.
2357 ...who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex...Under no circumstances can they be approved.
@ebolingUtube Well, basically, you can practice homosexual acts and be Catholic, but you wouldn't be a very good one - like many other Catholics. I know what the Catechism says, and I'm not arguing with it. I'm also not trying to bring your personal chastity into it, if only just to say to extend the allowance to make mistakes you grant yourself to other people. If we all had the grace to be sinless now, we wouldn't need confession.
@DalisYT Re:Well, basically, you can practice homosexual acts and be Catholic
That is the problem. No, you cannot anymore than a Catholic who has heterosexual sex without having sorrow for doing so. Both are in a state of Mortal sin because both have sinned against the Holy Spirit.
You must go to confession with sorrow in your heart if you want to be a Catholic. To do otherwise is not Catholic. It does not matter if you are homosexual or heterosexual.
@DalisYT Re:Well, basically, you can practice homosexual acts and be Catholic
Lets be clear: If you are struggling with homosexuality, then you have remorse and you can be a Catholic. You must still go to confession and make attempts not to repeat the sin.
A heterosexual can have sex if they are married to someone of the opposite gender and they have sex with that person only. A homosexual can never have sex. I mean NEVER just like a priest or single person.
@ebolingUtube Hey, I know the rules. I've been a Catholic all my life. I don't need to be lectured here. I'd really caution you not to be presumptuous here. If I reveal something personal on my profile or comments, it's for a perfectly good reason. That is to say, to inform other gay people, particularly Christians, on YouTube that they're not alone.
I'm willing to venture a guess that you reserve this special talk only for homosexuals, and this is precisely the problem - this scrupulosity.
(continued) So much time spent telling homosexuals everything that they can't do, while the rest of the wider world does whatever. No time at all guiding them in what they're supposed to do with their lives, how they're supposed to live out a chaste vocation. There's virtually no ministry for homosexual Catholics, and it's desperately needed. Instead, they are generalized by our Pope as a threat to the family. They're always referred to in the third person, but we are Catholics too.
@DalisYT - I do not have any issue with you, other than your attempt to redefine what the Catholic church teaches. I take issue with that because other people read it.
In case you have not noticed, the Catholic church is in the lime light for its homosexual priests who have committed horrific crimes. People need to know what the Church really teaches and not your views which are incorrect.
You cannot go around making false claims without having someone like me stand up and saying something.
When you said "Well, basically, you can practice homosexual acts and be Catholic". Again, that is not true and it is not Catholic teaching. That is when you redefined what the Catholic church teaches.
@ebolingUtube I never said you'd be a Catholic in good standing, because you wouldn't. I said you'd be a bad Catholic, but straight people get to be bad Catholics all the time. I am not redefining Church doctrine. I'm calling out doctrinal enforcement.
@DalisYT Re:So much time spent telling homosexuals everything that they can't do, while the rest of the wider world does whatever.
Oh, I get on others who make false claims about the Catholic church as well. Do not think I am after homosexuals only. I go after Protestants who try to teach everyone else what the Catholic church teaches.
No time guiding homosexuals huh? Try this link. They are talking to everyone including homosexuals.
w w w . catholictelevision . org / podcast / s2e7 . mp3
Great, I am glad to hear it. I am not lecturing you. I have said that heterosexuals cannot have sex with anyone other than their own spouse (opposite gender) which is in the Catechism.
It is not a special talk. I ask the question to understand why someone would put a stupid title like this video clip when it is an oxymoron. If there were a title like "Catholic Swingers", I would have just as much to say to them as people in this video.
@DalisYT Re:Well, basically, you can practice homosexual acts and be Catholic
You also need to know that you can still go to Catholic mass in a state of Mortal sin but you must not receive communion. That would only compound the problem with committing another Mortal sin. That sin is worse than homosexual sex.
There is no Purgatory for that kind of sin and as a Catholic you should know this is true. If you don't believe this, then you are not a Catholic but rather like to call yourself one.
To make a stupid statement like that means you need to say the same thing about all religions, school teachers, doctors, politicians, human race, etc... It is your opinion and an uneducated opinion at that.
If you research the topic; which you have obviously not done, you will find that the the cases peeked between 1960 and 1980 and declined rapidly between 1980 and 2000 in USA. Public schools are much worse today.
The Episcopal church isn't all a bed of roses either. Robinson was not allowed at Lambeth. Churches run by bigots (such as Pittsburgh) are splitting off for the right to discriminate against gay and lesbian people.
It's still a preposterous, exhausting, "am I good enough to be here" game there too. Just be self sufficient in your spirituality, don't buy ANYONE'S manipulative, controlling bull. It IS NOT WORTH IT.
Better idea: LEAVE the loony bigots and achieve some peace and self-respect rather than wasting years banging your head against a brick wall of demented ignorance and institutional misogyny and homophobia, and absurd proto-fascist authoritarianism.
Ratzinger has a BAD history--and reform is NOT forthcoming. Better than propping them up, and investing your self-worth in them, let them do themselves in with their irrelevance, scandal, bigotry, arrogance, far-right politics, and craziness.
How can these people confess to be catholic, if being catholic means understanding the Pope is infallible on faith and moral issues, such as Homosexuality? Is this to say they do NOT believe in papal infallibility? Or just think the pope is ONLY infallible when they WANT him to be?
It's nuts. The pope speaks from the chair of peter, many times saying homosexuality is WRONG. Accept it. Have mercy on us Lord.
That is a misunderstanding of Papal Infallibility. Papal infallibility is a specific invocation which is rarely exercised in reality. I think the last one was in 1950. And it would certainly not be used over such a matter as homosexuality.
In addition, the current dogma on homosexuality was written by Ratzinger when he was a cardinal, not Pope.
Uh, no. Sorry, you are mistaken. Papal infallibility is used a lot. When a pope writes an apolstolic letter, like john paull ll when rewriting the catechism of the catholic church, and this pope has done, well an apostolic letter means he is writing under his apostolic authority. Which means, he is writing using the authority of his seat, the chair of peter. Please look into this and understand it.
No, sorry. Writing under apostolic authority is certainly NOT the same as papal infallibility. Papal infallibility is almost never exercised. It is a statement that must fulfill a number of special requirements. Look up ex-cathedra.
Pope Benedict has not made any infallible statements, and himself stated in 2005 that "The Pope is not an oracle, he is infallible only in very rare situations".
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, that is, it is a function of the human body especially the hypothalamus in the brain. It is codified biologically like all other biological functions. The morning erection, the heart beat, the salivation, etc. Homosexuality is not an issue of faith and morals. So neither the pope nor any other human being has the right to form an opinion of it based on its own believes and perceived morality. Discriminating against people is a moral and legal issue.
well you are right the sexuality is something that is inherent in the body, however that does not mean that the practice of that function falls out side of the scope of moral and ethics. For example if i was to practice this function without a moral restraint it would lead to at least sexual harassment and maybe even rape. However our morals tell us that even though this is a natural thing it is to be practiced within certain boundaries. so yes sex is a matter of faith and morals.
Im glad that you are calling yourself a sexual harasser and a rapist and not someone ells. Sexual harassment and rape are not a moral issue or an issue of faith again as these are both covered by law. Yes civil legislation stops many people from committing them. And if they eventually do it they can be held responsible not on moral grounds(how absurd) but on legal grounds. Me personally I wouldnt do it because of simple human empathy, as I wouldnt like it to happen to me, I dont do it.
Sex is biologically determined. And its social implications are regulated by law. Civil Law is based on creating equal rights for all and equal responsibilities. Civil Law exists to defend everyone. We create these civil legislations to offer protection and to decrease the possible conflicts. Under a civil legislation it is virtually impossible to compare a sexual union that is forced to a sexual union that is of consent. Comparing these two is immoral, absurd and offensive, but not illegal.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
"Homosexual persons are called to chastity"... Uh, BY WHOM, exactly?
"...by the support of disinterested friendship..." What condescending and preposterous bunk. "Disinterested friendship" huh? What exemplarily "moral person" cooked that one up?
@cpmkw "What exemplarily "moral person" cooked that one up?" That would be Pope John Paul II, who had a passage expressly on homosexuality inserted into the Catechism for the first time. He also authored the series of encyclicals on the Theology of the Body. Perhaps have a sit-down and a relaxing drink and read them sometime. In fact, homosexuals aren't such a special case in Catholicism; all Christians - gay, straight, married, single - are called to reject lust and embrace chastity.
Of course, LGBT people "aren't such a special case in Catholicism..." Every day I hear open attacks on heterosexual people. Heterosexual people being targeted for political activism for civic marginalization as official policy. Every day I see heterosexuals being cynically scapegoated--AS A GROUP-- by the Vatican for it's it's criminal pedophilia problem and for its organized criminal coverup and evasion of justice for it.
It's all phoniness, hypocrisy, and a perverted racket.
@cpmkw LGBT people aren't such a special case in Catholic doctrine or a standard of behavior all Catholics are called to - to clarify. That's not to say that they aren't singled out as a special case by the Catholic Church body or heirarchy. In the cases you've alluded to, there is a great deal of scapegoating indeed.
The rules are simple, folks. If you're a gay Catholic you are perfectly welcome in the Catholic Church. But you are expected to remain celibate if you want to receive Communion (just like unmarried straight Catholics). If you stray from this, you must receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation (confession) before taking Communion again. Same as straight Catholics.
That's right, most Catholics who get up for Communion on Sunday probably have no business doing so that day. But that's the rules.
Here's a newsflash for you: Communion is a cracker. You're not being "deprived of Jesus" by "his authorized handlers" if they don't give you the cracker: You are being bullied with a disgustingly cynical and pathetic fear-tactic to make you tow the line to keep the most quintessential totalitarian organization in power.
Thank you so much. To think I wasted all this time on Catholicism. Thank you for letting me know its just a cracker! How could I have been so foolish? It's all so clear to me now. I really don't know what I would have done without your gracious help.
I'm glad it makes sense to you that the idea of "the rules" for you to access Jesus/God being controlled by a pedophile-ridden totalitarian cadre of ignorant misogynistic homophobic bigots can be nothing put pathetic and desperate fallacy.
Remember, if you're willing to buy that God is made into a saltine that some sycophant to this entity can decide whether you get or not--no wonder you'll buy any line of bull and allow yourself to be so manipulated.
I´m Gay, i´m Cathloic, but I don´t wanna live in celibacy. I mean, it was not my choice, I feel it as forced from outside. It is different if somebody wanna live in celibacy. I don´t wanna be alone all my life, I wanna partner. I´m glad I´m not only one who have his problem in catholic church. And I fear to tell my friends, and my dad, that I´m gay- because they are Christians. If I would only know they would accept it.
Well, that´s true. My whole point was, that if you are gay, Church force you to live in celibacy, and that´s not right. It is different if somebody chooses to live it (like priests). I didn´t chose it, ergo, I will not live it.
Well isnt this the huge problem with these two different identities. Being a Gay person and being a Catholic person as well. While you had no choice in being gay, as you are forced by your own brain and body to be what you are, and if you dont submit to yourself you may go crazy, the second identity, that of a Catholic is a choice that arises from education. One of my good friend died(accident) last year, and he was gay and catholic, and he lived in depression and with medication.
Dang, I doesn´t wanna end like him. Maybe it would be hard, but I still wanna remain Catholic. ONce a Catholic, always Catholic. In my case, it is almost a diagonsis :D
Well, that is your choice and it was his also. I dont know how old are you, or if you have any partner. But when you are 35, and you keep your relationships secret from your parents(for 15 years), and because of this secret you cant have a long term relationship, and because of feeling lonely you get depressed, and take medication like him did. Well I wouldnt wish that to anyone. Unfortunately he died young, but Im not sure that a longer life would have made any difference. Sad but true.
Well, I´m 23 and I do not have a partner , but my father know about my sexuality already, and so my closest friends, so if I would have a relationship, I woudn´t keep it secret. But I feel sorry for him, it must have been hard.
Well yes. It was really hard. His parents never accepted him, Im sure he never came out to them, only some of his friends knew about him. And of course he couldnt find anyone for a long term relationship, because no self respecting person would live with someone who feels shame for whom he is and whom he loves. I told him the same thing when he was interested in me at the beginning, that I can befriend him but I will not even consider the possibility of being with him.
The funny thing is that he was working as a professor of theology at the university in Vienna, and some of his so called well wishers where high officials in the Catholic church. He told me many times how one old bishop always tried to get in his pants. From him I know that a third of all priests are gay and that around 50% of the students are also gay in these schools. I found this information rather sad, as I have no idea how can so many people live with self hate.
Your infromation seems to be exxagerated (especially those 50 percent), but I am sure there are homosexuals in the church. What exactly did you tried to say with this information?
Its not my information, as Im neither religious, thus not Catholic, nor do I have insight in the affairs of this church or the schools sustained by it. It was his information.
My point? My point was that I have no idea how can so many people live in self hate like he did. Thats it.
In the end its their problem luckily, not mine.
But if you are interested in the topic I can send you a movie that deals with the issue.
OK, I understand now your point, but why do you think we hate ourselves? Do you really think that those peole who are in this youtube video hates themselves? I am sure they do not. And so do I. You know, when I said, that being Catholic in my case is diagnosis I meant this: I do believe in God, and Teaching of the Church along with the Tradition. I do not even mention Bible. But I am also aware about my sexuality, and this shoudn´t contradict my faith. Somebody wise once said ...
Somebody wise once said (I don´t remember his name) that religion and sexuality are the most strongest powers in human´s life, and if somebody puts them into contradictory position, he teaches you to be in endless divide. I would gladly see that movie. May I send you my comment on it after I will see it?
Not religion an sex but Taboo is the most powerful psychological tool. Many religions have used it and many politicians. Before the second world war the Nazi placed a taboo sign on Jewish people, and look how powerful it was. Taboos are in general related to sex, death, blood, birth. Christianity uses the original sin as a taboo, and they appoint their saviour as a freedom from this stigmatisation for example. By making a baby part of an original sin, they control his entire life.
How do I know about self hate in many of these people. Well its clearly because as grownups they decide to hide who they are and whom they love from everyone. To go to these schools and to be a professor or a priest, you have to deny whom you are. You have to feel shame. If you dont hate yourself that is a good thing, but I guess you dont want to be a priest. Anyways, the name of the movie is: Priest(1994) director is Antonia Bird.
@MamaMario13 Well, I still believe in God´s presence in Eucharist and I doesn´t wanna denounce my faith. And I found some Gay Christians around so now I see I´m not so alone in this and I doesn´t have a need of leaving.
Labels were the bane of my life. As soon as i opened my mouth about homosexual feelings when I was 18 it was 'gay' this and 'gay' that. The only people who weren't callinmg me 'gay' were proper Catholics. I'm celibate, why is this group encouraging poor young people to sin. Shame...
must it be insisted that someone is or isn't gay? why can't I be Catholic because I believe in Christ but also gay? Is there always a need for lables?
I'm just back from Holy Thursday mass, and it was the first time i really went to try and re-discover my faith. I'm also gay, and although i enjoyed the mass, i saw another guy there, and came away feeling lonely.
It's hard being gay and Catholic, but my faith is important to me. I only wish i had a companion to share my life with.
I totally agree with you. It is hard for being gay and faithful Catholic. We are the martyrs for our faith, I think, in someway. I want to quote what you said here "I only wish I had a companion to share my life with" I would add something to it...such as " I only wish I had companion to share my life and my faith with."
I cant understand why gays would want to insist on staying with the Roman Catholic Church and needing to feel validated by the organization when a Pope (the leader) condems you and makes you feel bad about who you are. Move on. If you must believe in God, then do so, but you do not need to be accepted by this organization. It is one of the oldest organized religions in the world. It is about control and does not want to show love but control - It is 2009 for G----Sake!
I have read several studies that have concluded that gay men and straight women are the most likely to attend church. I have also been reading about the doctors of the Church and many of the early fathers would have been classified as gay if they were alive today. The key phrase I read is "He was especially sensitive." It cannot be straight against gay. It needs to be brothers in Christ period. When we Catholics truly love according to our Faith, the bigotry will be defeated.
If Catholics would only focus on the essential meaning of the Eucharist. I am a former seminarian and I left because I would have been expelled from the order I had joined. If I had been a gay seminarian at any other abbey in the order, no one would have cared. I hated myself, because I tought God hated me, because of my orientation. All I knew is that I did not want to end up as an athiest, and many gays have left the Church because of the lack of true Christian love.
you cannot be catholic and gay, people have to understand that .
gigimarful 3 weeks ago
"Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection" (CCC 2357– 2359). For the record homosexuality becomes a sin when it is acting on. The desires themselves are not sinful. This is when the church is against homosexuality
TheHusker20 1 month ago
certainly the church should accept gay people, but it shouldnt be endorsed. it should be treated like any other sin; something jesus can do a work on. the bible talks about people sleeping with their own gender as an abomination. BUT WE ALL HAVE SIN, so dont look down on gay people, theyre just like every other sinner. but please, dont endorse it. thats just not biblical. I'm a sinner, i have alot of lust. i dont endorse lust, nor should homosexuals endorse homosexuality. jesus can help!
MilkedMilkism 3 months ago
@MilkedMilkism your logic is severely flawed...
hermione1135 3 months ago
@hermione1135 well dont just say that. How is my logic flawed? back yourself, maybe you can change my mind.
MilkedMilkism 3 months ago
@MilkedMilkism the fact that the church should accept gay people is good, finally some breakthrough... what you said directly after cancels it out... why should it be treated as a sin? and the bible doesn't directly say someone sleeping with their own gender is an "abomination" so however you interpreted that is wrong, even if you are not going to agree with me on that, do you also think it's right to stone people to death? or separate menstruating women from everyone else?
hermione1135 3 months ago
@MilkedMilkism because the bible says those things 2... and i don't like the way you say "endorse it" like we're advertising now? since when has religion ever been about advertising or ENDORSING? the only thing you should "endorse" is love... and in my eyes, that includes ANY kind of love, not just heterosexual love... i agree that everyone sins, but i disagree that just because two people of the same gender love eachother and act upon it that in itself is a sin, because two heterosexual people
hermione1135 3 months ago
@MilkedMilkism can do the same thing, and they won't be "sinning".... it's just unfair and unjust and it's not about jesus "helping" homosexuals... gay people are born the way they are, with a certain sexual attraction to whomever they fall in love with... according to you the only way these people can live "justly" is to suppress every urge they have their entire lives? that is very unfair and wrong... that is why i say your logic is severely flawed...
hermione1135 3 months ago
@hermione1135 l, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13)
seems pretty hard to misinterpret to me. Biblical proof that it can indeed be treated as a sin. However i do acknowledge that this is old testament and we are no longer under the law. Jesus put an end to
MilkedMilkism 3 months ago
@hermione1135 stonings and such. I havent considered the menstraution, and i would say know but im uneducated in that so i wont comment for now. Clearly this man, and many others, are trying to put homosexuality in a good light, thats what i mean by endorsing. You say gay people are born the way they are. Good, that makes them like me. I was born with sin too. I dont put myself above gay people, trust me, i love them. Just like any other sinner, they can be justified through jesus just by asking
MilkedMilkism 3 months ago
@MilkedMilkism *sigh* forget it.. you will just never see things the way i see them... i give up whatever...
hermione1135 3 months ago
@hermione1135 well, that was disappointing. i was rather looking forward to a nice rebuttal for me to consider. Just dont see me as the westboro baptist church or anything, im not like that. I love and accept gays, same as i do with all sinners. I'm thrilled that there are so many gay christians, especially given the taboo surrounding that issue.
MilkedMilkism 3 months ago
I don't think quoting Leviticus is helpful. The first testament also calls for death as a punishment for eating shellfish, disrespecting parents and combining two forms of thread. Before you look at homosexuality from a religious perspective, realise that sexuality is something that cannot be changed, and is unhealthy to suppress. leading to depression, self abuse and suicide. It is no different from race. The healthiest way to express sexuality, gay or straight, is to accept it and express it.
patrickwright1 3 months ago
@patrickwright1 i acknowledged that we are no longer under that testament, but i still think it bears some validity. is this any better, seems just as explicitly against it
"Do not be deceived: neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God" (Corinthians 6:9-10)
MilkedMilkism 3 months ago
To suggest that old testament laws have any validity is ridiculous. Are you suggesting that the 'abomination' of combining two threads or eating shellfish still has validity? That is a contested quote from Corinthians, and varies according to what bible and interpretation you read. The term 'homosexual' did not exist until recently. The concept of a homosexual relationship as we know it today did not exist until recently. The passage has been suggested to refer more to male prostitution.
patrickwright1 3 months ago
I believe religious people have to hold two positions on homosexuality. One has to be based on empirical, secular evidence, the other can be based on biblical teachings. While I am not spiritual, I believe that the bible has no specific teachings on homosexuality itself nor the specific act of male to male sex. I believe that homosexuality is deeply rooted in nature and a variation of human sexuality. I believe that if God exists, he did not create it for it to be repressed.
patrickwright1 3 months ago
@MilkedMilkism Would God really create different skin colour, eye colour and hair colour, and then call them sinful? Sexuality is no different to this. We have discovered a lot about sexuality only very recently- I believe it is very dangerous for the church to adopt a hostile attitude to homosexuality when gay youth, simply because of the way they are born, have a six times higher rate of suicide.
patrickwright1 3 months ago
@patrickwright1 this is a very non biblical perspective to what the church should be doing, and guess what, the church is based on the bible. Also, i dont like you using the word hostile. maybe catholics are yes, but my church for one would welcome homosexuals with open arms, just like they would for any other person.
MilkedMilkism 3 months ago
The church still has a social responsibility to not drive queer youth to the point of depression, self abuse or suicide by denigrating their sexuality and demanding they change. By suggesting gay people who want to express their sexuality are participating in an evil is itself a form of abuse. Demanding they change or suppress their sexuality, which is impossible, is equally harmful. Can you explain how a prohibition on a particular sexuality is different from a prohibition on a particular race?
patrickwright1 3 months ago
This depends on what you call "Gay". Usually it is said about Unchaste Homosexuals who are deep in their sexual sins. If someone suffers from SSA (same sex attraction) but is chaste, then they are truly loved by God and a blessing to the rest of us. The term "Gay" needs to be redefined, and in a big way. It's not about being "Gay" its about being chaste - and 2 men or 2 women having sex can NEVER be chaste.
drdst17 4 months ago
@drdst17 same sex attraction is NOT A DISEASE! and being chaste has nothing to do with WHO you are attracted to... wow...
hermione1135 3 months ago
@willthacheerleader18 Jst taking the piss, but why are you catholic if the running tradition of catholicism is anti gay?
It seems Sort of like a black man joining the KKK
shandcunt 5 months ago
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@willthacheerleader18 You are a gay man, who has a god delusion. That is a whole lot different than identifying as gay catholic. And, most people don't have a clue about the Catholic faith, sadly
shandcunt 5 months ago
You can tell the church are getting desperate now, first they started to let women speak in church, now they are accepting gays
shandcunt 5 months ago
not religious myself, but this is awesome! Don't listen to the haters, they don't know what they are talking about, pce
alinkyng 5 months ago
@So congrats my friend. To have the feelings for another man is not a sin, so keep in celibat than you dont commit a sin. Stay strong and in sanctity. I will pray for you, pray for me as well, to be faithful to God is not easy.
anapaulacarlson 9 months ago
heterosexuality is a sin when is used outside marriage as well. God create the penis to the vagina, is a natural order but must be used inside of the Matrimony. The Church will never acept marriage between gays because goes against the Gods Law. You gays dont acept any of this, you want to do what you want, just like hetero couples that want to have sex before to marry and free casual sex. Ok I understand you want to be free. so be!!! But dont expect go to Heaven in end, just that.
anapaulacarlson 9 months ago
@anapaulacarlson but not all gays do that. especially me. :'(
jaekimpark 9 months ago
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Im so fucking horny!
ulrik749 9 months ago
@willthacheerleader18 The Church already acept the gays in the Church, but the Church cant understand them marrying, having sex. There are few gays that deeply can understand that. I have a lot of friends that says to be catholic but they have sex with every boyfriends they have, is wrong!!! You cant do this. Try to read the Commandments, understand the order of nature.
anapaulacarlson 11 months ago
@willthacheerleader18 All the gays are welcome into the Church, in Brazil there are many gays working inside of the Church, but they live in celibat, because to feel something for the same sex is not wrong, the wrong is sex, that is what they want the Church acept, God creates the vagina for the penis, but none understand that. I come from a rich family in Brazil, was good to live free doing crazy things, until I decide to understand God, live in sanctity.
anapaulacarlson 11 months ago
@anapaulacarlson LOL so why are straight people allowed to have sex then? How unfair.
antiscience 9 months ago
The catholic church helps a lot of gays and lesbians people all around the World, but homossexualism is a sin, is on that the Church will never acepts.
anapaulacarlson 1 year ago
@anapaulacarlson yes that may be true, but we must also not generalize. We live in a gray world. The church is still called to love and help these people, just as they should not shut out divorced and remarried catholcis, which I can assure you there are many more of those than there are gay catholics.
willthacheerleader18 11 months ago
@anapaulacarlson LOL what a bunch of selfish buttheads.. if homosexuality is a sin then heterosexuality is a sin. DEALWITHIT!
antiscience 9 months ago
The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality is an intrinsic evil. You cannot be gay and Catholic at the same time. This bloke and all his followers should be excommunicated.
sukka113 1 year ago
@sukka113 actually that is where you are wrong. Look at what the Catechism of the Catholic Church actually teaches: that homosexuals are born into there situation. They are equal children of God and it is the duty of the Church to protect, help, love, care for, and support them. The church does not recognize being attracted to the opposite sex as a sin, it views sex outside of marriage a sin. It does not hate gay people, merely gay sex.
willthacheerleader18 11 months ago 2
no no no no no no.. people, catholicism and homosexuality are like water and oil. mainly because this religion dooms gay persons. if you want to be a happy homosexual person you don't need to seek god through catolicism. Remember, catholic religion is sexist and homophobic no matter what. there might be nice persons but they'll never accept gays since it's one of the worst sins on Earth.
fernandopox 1 year ago
@fernandopox this religion does not doom gay persons. I am gay and catholic. you obviosuly do not know much about the Catholic faith.
willthacheerleader18 11 months ago 2
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@willthacheerleader18
LEVITICUS 18:22: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is abomination."
LEVITICUS 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."
This is really just one of the reasons why I left Christianity. I didn't want to be part of something that thought this crap.
AWEF321 10 months ago
@willthacheerleader18 You are a child of God, who has same-sex attraction. That is a whole lot different than identifying as gay. And, most people don't have a clue about the Catholic faith, sadly.
TheLogicalPosition 5 months ago
@TheLogicalPosition I am gay and Catholic thank you. I know myself much better than you.
willthacheerleader18 5 months ago
I DONT PRETEND MY FAITH THUS THAT WOULD GIVE ME NOT PURPOSE I LIVE MY FAITH YOUTUBE IS FULL OF BULLSHITTERS LIEK YOU
videresims3 1 year ago
@videresims3 using fould language and showing anger is exactly what these trolls want you to do. Stay calm and loving. Remember the beatitudes.
willthacheerleader18 11 months ago
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1 CORINTHIANS 6 : 9 TO 11 SAY SURELY YOU KNOW THAT THE WICKED WILL NOT RECEIVE GOD'S KINGDOM. DO NOT FOOL YOURSELVES: PEOPLE WHO ARE IMMORAL, OR WORSHIP IDOLS, OR ARE ADULTERERS, OR HOMOSEXUAL PERVERTS, OR WHO ROB, OR ARE GREEDY, OR ARE DRUNKARDS, OR WHO SLANDER OTHERS, OR ARE LAWBREAKERS - NONE OF THESE WILL RECEIVE GOD'S KINGDOM AMEN.
DRUMMERAL100 1 year ago
Why don't gays just stop supporting the Church, and stop pretending there is a god.
MegaGayjesus 1 year ago
@MegaGayjesus gay people who support the church, dont pretend there is a God, they BELIEVE there is God.
videresims3 1 year ago 3
@videresims3 Stop pretending there are gods.
MegaGayjesus 1 year ago
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@videresims3 on the contrary, you can believe there is a God without going to church or practicing organized religion... especially when you know you're not welcome...
hermione1135 3 months ago
Why would they consider themselves Catholics if they don't believe in what it teaches? The Church should change them, not the other way around. Think about it man...!!!
manuel400 1 year ago
@manuel400 Being Catholic is more than a religion, like being Jewish it is a cultural identity. Many want to continue to participate in that heritage, whether or not they believe in or live 100% the teaching. Rather than be hidden hypocrites, some feel the need to be openly welcoming. Masturbators, fornicators and contraceptors are committing mortal sin according to the Catechism. Gays are much easier to pick on.
kimzeynkink 1 year ago
@manuel400 because all christians are sinners.. and no one is perfect. There are also catholics who have had abortions, catholics who have had sex outside of marriage, catholics who have used condoms, catholics who are divorced and remarried, catholics who are alcoholics, catholics who have commited murder, catholics who have robbed, catholics who do drugs, etc.. but they are still catholic. No human can percectly follow everything the church teaches. Christ died for our sins, and we try for him
willthacheerleader18 11 months ago
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The Kni/ghts of Colum/bus is a Ro/man Cat/holic dise/ase!
dirtbagcatholics 1 year ago
God Bless these people :] the Church needs to accept and love and comfort the gay members.
willthacheerleader18 1 year ago 13
Chatechism of Catholic church:
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex...Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358...This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity...
If you cannot do this, you are not Catholic by choice.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube The Catechism also says that chastity involves an "apprenticeship in self-mastery" which is "long and exacting work". It says, "One can never consider it acquired once and for all." That means that just because one fails doesn't mean they're not a Catholic. Possibly you haven't mastered chastity, but I'd never say you can't be a Catholic. And I'd never assume that spiritual friendship can't exist within a same-sex intimate relationship.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:The Catechism also says
You did not fully read what I posted or misunderstood. I never said that one who fails cannot be Catholic. I said one who openly professes and practices something that is anti Catholic cannot be Catholic.
What does that have to do with my chastity? We are not talking about me. We are talking about people who proudly proclaim a homosexual lifestyle and claim to be Catholic at the same time.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube There is no "homosexual lifestyle". There is lust and chastity and everything in between, but how homosexual people live their lives is as diverse as all humanity. Keep the standard of behavior aimed at the virtue, not on the orientation.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:There is no "homosexual lifestyle"
Really? Having sex with someone of the same gender is not a lifestyle? Well, I am sorry, I don't agree and neither does the Catholic church. That is a mortal sin and it is anti-Catholic.
So I would ask again, why would anyone who publicly professes to be having a homosexual relationship, want to call themselves Catholic?
I don't have any idea what you mean by "standard of behavior aimed at virtue not orientation".
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube Sorry that was awkward phrasing. When I say "aimed at virtue", what I'm saying is, we should speak of lust as a mortal sin and chastity as a virtue, and love as God. But, none of those things are dependent on sexual orientation, so I don't see the point in demarcating between gay/straight when lust is wrong and chastity is right for everyone.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:Sorry that was awkward phrasing
You are right, we should speak of lust as a mortal sin and chastity as a virtue. When a homosexual publicly professes their sexual preference, are you saying that they are not willfully having sex with the same gender?
Because if that is what you are saying, I don't believe you. I am questioning those homosexuals who are not chaste as you put it.
Why would you want to openly claim you are homosexual if you are chaste?
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube "Why would you want to openly claim you are homosexual if you are chaste?"
Because lying is a sin too, and the lie is otherwise too hard to maintain. Because to have a homosexual orientation is NOT in itself a sin, and there shouldn't have to be any shame to admit something about oneself when one hasn't done anything wrong. Anyway, there is a degree of anonymity on the Internet. How the Catholic Church treats gay people affects me, and YouTube is a place to talk about it.
DalisYT 1 year ago
(continued) There is another ulterior motive I have for disclosing my sexual orientation on YouTube. Before you know anything about me, I've exposed your immediate and palpable suspicion of me. I can go on GayChristian[dot]net or talk to other Catholic sites where chastity is promoted and I am not immediately vilified as a wanton sinner. By contrast, I've gone on plenty of other pages and been told that I am contaminating the Church with my presence. This way, I know who I'm dealing with.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:There is another ulterior motive
What?
Do you think I am chastising you? On the contrary, you are very defensive. I am chastising what you have said about the Catholic church which is not true. I am concerned about everyone else who might read your incorrect statement and think it is ok to have sex with anyone outside of marriage (opposite gender).
You think very highly of yourself if you think I am talking about you only. You responded to my original question not vice versa.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube I am not telling people that gay sex is acceptable or not a sin. What I'm saying is that straight people fornicate every day of the week and are still welcomed in their respective churches and still identify as Catholic. I'm trying to have you and others not slam the door in gay people's faces.
I perfectly well understand that you're writing to specific posters or to the larger Internet audience generally and not just me, but I posted a response, which others may do as well.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re: I am not telling people that gay sex is acceptable or not a sin.
Yes straight people do fornicate and they are wrong also. If I saw a title that said "Catholic Fornicator" I would say something as well.
Welcomed into the church for fornication? Really? Not if they publicly proclaim it. I don't know of anyone who is Catholic and publicly proclaims fornication.
I would be amazed if I found one homosexual who was actually practicing chastity. That would be an awesome Catholic.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube "I would be amazed if I found one homosexual who was actually practicing chastity. That would be an awesome Catholic."
That's way out of line. That's the sort of comment that concerns ME going out over the Internet. It's discouraging, as if you don't think that homosexuals are capable of living chastely. This is not what the Catechism says. Go to the Gay Christian Network (gaychristian[dot]net). There is an ample representation of what they call Side B, or celibate gay Christians.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:That's way out of line.
Ok, If it is not true, then I apologize! I certainly hope it is not true but the claims against homosexual priests make it hard to believe. 81% of pedophile cases in the Catholic church are homosexual in nature. I have several sources if needed.
I would like to ask the question, why would one proudly proclaim homosexuality and Catholicism if it is against Catholic doctrine?
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube "why would one proudly proclaim homosexuality and Catholicism if it is against Catholic doctrine?"
If you're asking why someone would proclaim homosexual sex while Catholic, they might be members of Dignity or a liberal church, meaning they want doctrine to change. If you're asking why someone would acknowledge homosexual attraction while Catholic, that need not be the case at all but rather a simple acknowledgment of one's cross to bear.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:If you're asking
Now that is a good answer. Thank you.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube The other possibility is that the person in question was not properly catechized. Wouldn't be the first time.
DalisYT 1 year ago
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@DalisYT Re:The other possibility is that the person
Another good response.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:I am not telling people that gay sex is acceptable or not a sin.
Just because someone says they are Catholic does not mean it is true. One needs to believe what the Catholic church teaches to be Catholic.
I do know Catholic wanna bees who claim they are Catholic and say that abortion is ok. Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy and Joe Biden ring a bell. They are not Catholic because they do not believe what the Catholic church teaches about abortion.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube I agree.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:There is another ulterior motive
I have no suspicion of you. I only have concern about your claims and the Catholic church.
As a Catholic, you cannot have sex outside of heterosexual marriage without being in a state of Mortal sin. That is my concern.
Your lifestyle concerns me only to the extent that Christ does not approve and it is sad that you have chosen it. But most people reading anything on this site also have chosen it.
Again; why would you want to be Catholic?
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube Again, what lifestyle? You don't know what my lifestyle is. Why do you assume I'm not in communion.
DalisYT 1 year ago
(hmm, I wonder at what point I tell the guy I'm a virgin.)
DalisYT 1 year ago
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@DalisYT Re:hmm, I wonder at what point I tell the guy I'm a virgin
Really? You wonder? You just said that you lie, so why should I or anyone believe that you are a virgin?
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube Again, I said I DON'T lie. You're misquoting me completely. I already know you distrust me. You really should take my word for it or you'll be the one acting inappropriately.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:I said I DON'T lie. You're misquoting me completely.
You said: "There is another ulterior motive I have for disclosing my sexual orientation on YouTube." Perhaps not a lie but definitely a deception.
Why should I believe anything you say? How do I know you are not deceiving me now?
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube I told you my answer before. You're pressing that matter too much for my comfort.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:what lifestyle?
Your profile and discussions have lead me to believe that you are a practicing lesbian. If it is not true, then remove it. Unless you want me and others to not believe you what you post.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube What precisely do you propose that I remove or change about my profile that would be more to your satisfaction?
DalisYT 1 year ago
Comment removed
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:There is no "homosexual lifestyle"
Are you trying to say that you can go to confession, confess that you had sex with someone of the same gender and then do it again the next day?
You cannot make a confession if you are not sorry for the offense and fully intend to never commit that offense again. If you make this kind of a confession, it is invalid according to the Catechism of the Catholic church. Why bother confessing?
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube Not at all, although there is precedence for that in the straight world. I'm saying that to have sex with anyone in opposition to a priest's counsel (barring a compulsion) is schismatic. But, this is not unique to homosexuals, and the object of lust is irrelevant. So, why harp on homosexuals to the exclusion of others? Plenty of gay people do not live as you describe but are coupled in chaste relationships. Is this any less a gay lifestyle, though the Church may sanction it?
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:There is no "homosexual lifestyle"
I think you are misunderstanding what I am asking and saying. If you want to live your life with a partner of the same gender and have sex with that partner, have at it. I won't try to stop you any more than one time. I will also not say anything against your choice to do that because there are plenty of other Christians who will say something to you.
Why do you want to call yourself a Catholic if you don't believe the Catechism?
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
Being a homosexual is not a sin but acting on it is. Why would any of you want to be called Catholic when the church clearly teaches that it is a mortal sin.
You cannot go to confession without being truly sorry for committing the sin, so I don't get it. There are plenty of Protestant religions that allow any kind of sexual behavior. Why not become one of them? What is the deal with wanting to be called Catholic when you openly profess that you do not believe what the Catholic church teaches?
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube If you think conversion is a question of throwing a dart at a phone book or shopping for the church that best fits how you are now, you're not going to understand the dilemma of being a Catholic who is also gay.
DalisYT 1 year ago
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@DalisYT Re: If you think conversion is a question of throwing a dart at a phone book
What are you talking about? I never said you cannot be homosexual and Catholic at the same time. I said you cannot practice homosexual acts and be Catholic at the same time. Why argue with me; I did not write the Catechism? Argue with the Catechism.
2357 ...who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex...Under no circumstances can they be approved.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube Well, basically, you can practice homosexual acts and be Catholic, but you wouldn't be a very good one - like many other Catholics. I know what the Catechism says, and I'm not arguing with it. I'm also not trying to bring your personal chastity into it, if only just to say to extend the allowance to make mistakes you grant yourself to other people. If we all had the grace to be sinless now, we wouldn't need confession.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:Well, basically, you can practice homosexual acts and be Catholic
That is the problem. No, you cannot anymore than a Catholic who has heterosexual sex without having sorrow for doing so. Both are in a state of Mortal sin because both have sinned against the Holy Spirit.
You must go to confession with sorrow in your heart if you want to be a Catholic. To do otherwise is not Catholic. It does not matter if you are homosexual or heterosexual.
The purpose of sex is to have children!
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:Well, basically, you can practice homosexual acts and be Catholic
Lets be clear: If you are struggling with homosexuality, then you have remorse and you can be a Catholic. You must still go to confession and make attempts not to repeat the sin.
A heterosexual can have sex if they are married to someone of the opposite gender and they have sex with that person only. A homosexual can never have sex. I mean NEVER just like a priest or single person.
You can be a protestant.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube Hey, I know the rules. I've been a Catholic all my life. I don't need to be lectured here. I'd really caution you not to be presumptuous here. If I reveal something personal on my profile or comments, it's for a perfectly good reason. That is to say, to inform other gay people, particularly Christians, on YouTube that they're not alone.
I'm willing to venture a guess that you reserve this special talk only for homosexuals, and this is precisely the problem - this scrupulosity.
DalisYT 1 year ago
(continued) So much time spent telling homosexuals everything that they can't do, while the rest of the wider world does whatever. No time at all guiding them in what they're supposed to do with their lives, how they're supposed to live out a chaste vocation. There's virtually no ministry for homosexual Catholics, and it's desperately needed. Instead, they are generalized by our Pope as a threat to the family. They're always referred to in the third person, but we are Catholics too.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT - I do not have any issue with you, other than your attempt to redefine what the Catholic church teaches. I take issue with that because other people read it.
In case you have not noticed, the Catholic church is in the lime light for its homosexual priests who have committed horrific crimes. People need to know what the Church really teaches and not your views which are incorrect.
You cannot go around making false claims without having someone like me stand up and saying something.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
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@ebolingUtube "your attempt to redefine what the Catholic church teaches" When have I done that?
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:When have I done that?
When you said "Well, basically, you can practice homosexual acts and be Catholic". Again, that is not true and it is not Catholic teaching. That is when you redefined what the Catholic church teaches.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@ebolingUtube I never said you'd be a Catholic in good standing, because you wouldn't. I said you'd be a bad Catholic, but straight people get to be bad Catholics all the time. I am not redefining Church doctrine. I'm calling out doctrinal enforcement.
DalisYT 1 year ago
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@DalisYT Re:So much time spent telling homosexuals everything that they can't do, while the rest of the wider world does whatever.
Oh, I get on others who make false claims about the Catholic church as well. Do not think I am after homosexuals only. I go after Protestants who try to teach everyone else what the Catholic church teaches.
No time guiding homosexuals huh? Try this link. They are talking to everyone including homosexuals.
w w w . catholictelevision . org / podcast / s2e7 . mp3
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:I know the rules.
Great, I am glad to hear it. I am not lecturing you. I have said that heterosexuals cannot have sex with anyone other than their own spouse (opposite gender) which is in the Catechism.
It is not a special talk. I ask the question to understand why someone would put a stupid title like this video clip when it is an oxymoron. If there were a title like "Catholic Swingers", I would have just as much to say to them as people in this video.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@DalisYT Re:Well, basically, you can practice homosexual acts and be Catholic
You also need to know that you can still go to Catholic mass in a state of Mortal sin but you must not receive communion. That would only compound the problem with committing another Mortal sin. That sin is worse than homosexual sex.
There is no Purgatory for that kind of sin and as a Catholic you should know this is true. If you don't believe this, then you are not a Catholic but rather like to call yourself one.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
If your gay, and you practice in "Homosexual activity" you are worthy of death. Repent and stop having sex, with the same sex!
Martinbegu21 1 year ago
all catholics are paedophile supporting scum
.
bigcherry99 1 year ago
@bigcherry99 Re:all catholics
You do not know what you are talking about.
To make a stupid statement like that means you need to say the same thing about all religions, school teachers, doctors, politicians, human race, etc... It is your opinion and an uneducated opinion at that.
If you research the topic; which you have obviously not done, you will find that the the cases peeked between 1960 and 1980 and declined rapidly between 1980 and 2000 in USA. Public schools are much worse today.
ebolingUtube 1 year ago
@peetieboypearson
The Episcopal church isn't all a bed of roses either. Robinson was not allowed at Lambeth. Churches run by bigots (such as Pittsburgh) are splitting off for the right to discriminate against gay and lesbian people.
It's still a preposterous, exhausting, "am I good enough to be here" game there too. Just be self sufficient in your spirituality, don't buy ANYONE'S manipulative, controlling bull. It IS NOT WORTH IT.
cpmkw 1 year ago
Better idea: LEAVE the loony bigots and achieve some peace and self-respect rather than wasting years banging your head against a brick wall of demented ignorance and institutional misogyny and homophobia, and absurd proto-fascist authoritarianism.
Ratzinger has a BAD history--and reform is NOT forthcoming. Better than propping them up, and investing your self-worth in them, let them do themselves in with their irrelevance, scandal, bigotry, arrogance, far-right politics, and craziness.
cpmkw 1 year ago
Catholic AND gay?
Well, one can always live in a pipe dream. More power to you then. Good luck.
6XPM5J2009 2 years ago
How can these people confess to be catholic, if being catholic means understanding the Pope is infallible on faith and moral issues, such as Homosexuality? Is this to say they do NOT believe in papal infallibility? Or just think the pope is ONLY infallible when they WANT him to be?
It's nuts. The pope speaks from the chair of peter, many times saying homosexuality is WRONG. Accept it. Have mercy on us Lord.
MrJohnnySharp 2 years ago
That is a misunderstanding of Papal Infallibility. Papal infallibility is a specific invocation which is rarely exercised in reality. I think the last one was in 1950. And it would certainly not be used over such a matter as homosexuality.
In addition, the current dogma on homosexuality was written by Ratzinger when he was a cardinal, not Pope.
kj474 2 years ago
Uh, no. Sorry, you are mistaken. Papal infallibility is used a lot. When a pope writes an apolstolic letter, like john paull ll when rewriting the catechism of the catholic church, and this pope has done, well an apostolic letter means he is writing under his apostolic authority. Which means, he is writing using the authority of his seat, the chair of peter. Please look into this and understand it.
MrJohnnySharp 2 years ago
No, sorry. Writing under apostolic authority is certainly NOT the same as papal infallibility. Papal infallibility is almost never exercised. It is a statement that must fulfill a number of special requirements. Look up ex-cathedra.
Pope Benedict has not made any infallible statements, and himself stated in 2005 that "The Pope is not an oracle, he is infallible only in very rare situations".
kj474 2 years ago
@MrJohnnySharp
Papal "infallibility" huh? You do realize how bat$#it that absurd manipulative ploy is, don't you?
cpmkw 1 year ago
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, that is, it is a function of the human body especially the hypothalamus in the brain. It is codified biologically like all other biological functions. The morning erection, the heart beat, the salivation, etc. Homosexuality is not an issue of faith and morals. So neither the pope nor any other human being has the right to form an opinion of it based on its own believes and perceived morality. Discriminating against people is a moral and legal issue.
eldadevata 2 years ago
well you are right the sexuality is something that is inherent in the body, however that does not mean that the practice of that function falls out side of the scope of moral and ethics. For example if i was to practice this function without a moral restraint it would lead to at least sexual harassment and maybe even rape. However our morals tell us that even though this is a natural thing it is to be practiced within certain boundaries. so yes sex is a matter of faith and morals.
sebastiancohrt 2 years ago
Im glad that you are calling yourself a sexual harasser and a rapist and not someone ells. Sexual harassment and rape are not a moral issue or an issue of faith again as these are both covered by law. Yes civil legislation stops many people from committing them. And if they eventually do it they can be held responsible not on moral grounds(how absurd) but on legal grounds. Me personally I wouldnt do it because of simple human empathy, as I wouldnt like it to happen to me, I dont do it.
eldadevata 2 years ago
Sex is biologically determined. And its social implications are regulated by law. Civil Law is based on creating equal rights for all and equal responsibilities. Civil Law exists to defend everyone. We create these civil legislations to offer protection and to decrease the possible conflicts. Under a civil legislation it is virtually impossible to compare a sexual union that is forced to a sexual union that is of consent. Comparing these two is immoral, absurd and offensive, but not illegal.
eldadevata 2 years ago
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Cachism of the catholic church
sebastiancohrt 2 years ago
Absurd and offensive.
eldadevata 2 years ago
@sebastiancohrt
"Homosexual persons are called to chastity"... Uh, BY WHOM, exactly?
"...by the support of disinterested friendship..." What condescending and preposterous bunk. "Disinterested friendship" huh? What exemplarily "moral person" cooked that one up?
cpmkw 1 year ago
@cpmkw "What exemplarily "moral person" cooked that one up?" That would be Pope John Paul II, who had a passage expressly on homosexuality inserted into the Catechism for the first time. He also authored the series of encyclicals on the Theology of the Body. Perhaps have a sit-down and a relaxing drink and read them sometime. In fact, homosexuals aren't such a special case in Catholicism; all Christians - gay, straight, married, single - are called to reject lust and embrace chastity.
DalisYT 1 year ago
@DalisYT
Of course, LGBT people "aren't such a special case in Catholicism..." Every day I hear open attacks on heterosexual people. Heterosexual people being targeted for political activism for civic marginalization as official policy. Every day I see heterosexuals being cynically scapegoated--AS A GROUP-- by the Vatican for it's it's criminal pedophilia problem and for its organized criminal coverup and evasion of justice for it.
It's all phoniness, hypocrisy, and a perverted racket.
cpmkw 1 year ago
@cpmkw LGBT people aren't such a special case in Catholic doctrine or a standard of behavior all Catholics are called to - to clarify. That's not to say that they aren't singled out as a special case by the Catholic Church body or heirarchy. In the cases you've alluded to, there is a great deal of scapegoating indeed.
DalisYT 1 year ago
The rules are simple, folks. If you're a gay Catholic you are perfectly welcome in the Catholic Church. But you are expected to remain celibate if you want to receive Communion (just like unmarried straight Catholics). If you stray from this, you must receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation (confession) before taking Communion again. Same as straight Catholics.
That's right, most Catholics who get up for Communion on Sunday probably have no business doing so that day. But that's the rules.
jakeharvey 2 years ago
@jakeharvey
Here's a newsflash for you: Communion is a cracker. You're not being "deprived of Jesus" by "his authorized handlers" if they don't give you the cracker: You are being bullied with a disgustingly cynical and pathetic fear-tactic to make you tow the line to keep the most quintessential totalitarian organization in power.
cpmkw 1 year ago
@cpmkw
Thank you so much. To think I wasted all this time on Catholicism. Thank you for letting me know its just a cracker! How could I have been so foolish? It's all so clear to me now. I really don't know what I would have done without your gracious help.
jakeharvey 1 year ago
@jakeharvey
Aw shucks, don't mention it.
I'm glad it makes sense to you that the idea of "the rules" for you to access Jesus/God being controlled by a pedophile-ridden totalitarian cadre of ignorant misogynistic homophobic bigots can be nothing put pathetic and desperate fallacy.
Remember, if you're willing to buy that God is made into a saltine that some sycophant to this entity can decide whether you get or not--no wonder you'll buy any line of bull and allow yourself to be so manipulated.
cpmkw 1 year ago
I´m Gay, i´m Cathloic, but I don´t wanna live in celibacy. I mean, it was not my choice, I feel it as forced from outside. It is different if somebody wanna live in celibacy. I don´t wanna be alone all my life, I wanna partner. I´m glad I´m not only one who have his problem in catholic church. And I fear to tell my friends, and my dad, that I´m gay- because they are Christians. If I would only know they would accept it.
Tarhiel 2 years ago 2
Well... you could always find someone else to live with that is similar to you. To keep you from being alone.
RockyBalboa211 2 years ago
Well, that´s true. My whole point was, that if you are gay, Church force you to live in celibacy, and that´s not right. It is different if somebody chooses to live it (like priests). I didn´t chose it, ergo, I will not live it.
Tarhiel 2 years ago
Well isnt this the huge problem with these two different identities. Being a Gay person and being a Catholic person as well. While you had no choice in being gay, as you are forced by your own brain and body to be what you are, and if you dont submit to yourself you may go crazy, the second identity, that of a Catholic is a choice that arises from education. One of my good friend died(accident) last year, and he was gay and catholic, and he lived in depression and with medication.
eldadevata 2 years ago
Dang, I doesn´t wanna end like him. Maybe it would be hard, but I still wanna remain Catholic. ONce a Catholic, always Catholic. In my case, it is almost a diagonsis :D
Tarhiel 2 years ago
Well, that is your choice and it was his also. I dont know how old are you, or if you have any partner. But when you are 35, and you keep your relationships secret from your parents(for 15 years), and because of this secret you cant have a long term relationship, and because of feeling lonely you get depressed, and take medication like him did. Well I wouldnt wish that to anyone. Unfortunately he died young, but Im not sure that a longer life would have made any difference. Sad but true.
eldadevata 2 years ago
Well, I´m 23 and I do not have a partner , but my father know about my sexuality already, and so my closest friends, so if I would have a relationship, I woudn´t keep it secret. But I feel sorry for him, it must have been hard.
Tarhiel 2 years ago
Well yes. It was really hard. His parents never accepted him, Im sure he never came out to them, only some of his friends knew about him. And of course he couldnt find anyone for a long term relationship, because no self respecting person would live with someone who feels shame for whom he is and whom he loves. I told him the same thing when he was interested in me at the beginning, that I can befriend him but I will not even consider the possibility of being with him.
eldadevata 2 years ago
The funny thing is that he was working as a professor of theology at the university in Vienna, and some of his so called well wishers where high officials in the Catholic church. He told me many times how one old bishop always tried to get in his pants. From him I know that a third of all priests are gay and that around 50% of the students are also gay in these schools. I found this information rather sad, as I have no idea how can so many people live with self hate.
eldadevata 2 years ago
Your infromation seems to be exxagerated (especially those 50 percent), but I am sure there are homosexuals in the church. What exactly did you tried to say with this information?
Tarhiel 2 years ago
Its not my information, as Im neither religious, thus not Catholic, nor do I have insight in the affairs of this church or the schools sustained by it. It was his information.
My point? My point was that I have no idea how can so many people live in self hate like he did. Thats it.
In the end its their problem luckily, not mine.
But if you are interested in the topic I can send you a movie that deals with the issue.
Cheers!
eldadevata 2 years ago
OK, I understand now your point, but why do you think we hate ourselves? Do you really think that those peole who are in this youtube video hates themselves? I am sure they do not. And so do I. You know, when I said, that being Catholic in my case is diagnosis I meant this: I do believe in God, and Teaching of the Church along with the Tradition. I do not even mention Bible. But I am also aware about my sexuality, and this shoudn´t contradict my faith. Somebody wise once said ...
Tarhiel 2 years ago
Somebody wise once said (I don´t remember his name) that religion and sexuality are the most strongest powers in human´s life, and if somebody puts them into contradictory position, he teaches you to be in endless divide. I would gladly see that movie. May I send you my comment on it after I will see it?
Tarhiel 2 years ago 3
Not religion an sex but Taboo is the most powerful psychological tool. Many religions have used it and many politicians. Before the second world war the Nazi placed a taboo sign on Jewish people, and look how powerful it was. Taboos are in general related to sex, death, blood, birth. Christianity uses the original sin as a taboo, and they appoint their saviour as a freedom from this stigmatisation for example. By making a baby part of an original sin, they control his entire life.
eldadevata 2 years ago
And yes you can send me your comments after youve seen the movie.
Im not sure if its still on YouTube because there was a time when it was then it was taken down and then someone ells placed it back.
But I guess you can download it also.
Its a very interesting one, and has many interesting informations for a gay catholic, but even for me.
Cheers!
eldadevata 2 years ago
How do I know about self hate in many of these people. Well its clearly because as grownups they decide to hide who they are and whom they love from everyone. To go to these schools and to be a professor or a priest, you have to deny whom you are. You have to feel shame. If you dont hate yourself that is a good thing, but I guess you dont want to be a priest. Anyways, the name of the movie is: Priest(1994) director is Antonia Bird.
eldadevata 2 years ago
Well, I´m not hiding it, neither these people :) So, I´ll write yuo back after watching this film ;)
Tarhiel 2 years ago
Cheers!
eldadevata 2 years ago
@Tarhiel then u could leave the church. I used to be baptist but they did not approve of my lesbian relationship so I said fuck them haha
MamaMario13 8 months ago
@MamaMario13 Well, I still believe in God´s presence in Eucharist and I doesn´t wanna denounce my faith. And I found some Gay Christians around so now I see I´m not so alone in this and I doesn´t have a need of leaving.
Tarhiel 8 months ago
@Tarhiel then u could leave the church. I used to be baptist but they did not approve of my lesbian relationship so I said fuck them haha
MamaMario13 8 months ago
@MamaMario13 what about the bible?
philip2260 8 months ago
Labels were the bane of my life. As soon as i opened my mouth about homosexual feelings when I was 18 it was 'gay' this and 'gay' that. The only people who weren't callinmg me 'gay' were proper Catholics. I'm celibate, why is this group encouraging poor young people to sin. Shame...
Raffzeee 2 years ago
Raffzeee, because it is not sin. It is a gift, just like being heterosexual.
Tarhiel 2 years ago
labels
nouaidount 2 years ago
must it be insisted that someone is or isn't gay? why can't I be Catholic because I believe in Christ but also gay? Is there always a need for lables?
nouaidount 2 years ago 2
I'm just back from Holy Thursday mass, and it was the first time i really went to try and re-discover my faith. I'm also gay, and although i enjoyed the mass, i saw another guy there, and came away feeling lonely.
It's hard being gay and Catholic, but my faith is important to me. I only wish i had a companion to share my life with.
cloverfield911 2 years ago
I totally agree with you. It is hard for being gay and faithful Catholic. We are the martyrs for our faith, I think, in someway. I want to quote what you said here "I only wish I had a companion to share my life with" I would add something to it...such as " I only wish I had companion to share my life and my faith with."
I would love to know more about you.
duongjoseph 2 years ago
I'm gay, I'm Catholic, and I'm proud.
CBCadet02 2 years ago
Very good for you!
duongjoseph 2 years ago
I cant understand why gays would want to insist on staying with the Roman Catholic Church and needing to feel validated by the organization when a Pope (the leader) condems you and makes you feel bad about who you are. Move on. If you must believe in God, then do so, but you do not need to be accepted by this organization. It is one of the oldest organized religions in the world. It is about control and does not want to show love but control - It is 2009 for G----Sake!
robertgmg 3 years ago
God bless all Catholics!
nmatysiakj 3 years ago 2
I have read several studies that have concluded that gay men and straight women are the most likely to attend church. I have also been reading about the doctors of the Church and many of the early fathers would have been classified as gay if they were alive today. The key phrase I read is "He was especially sensitive." It cannot be straight against gay. It needs to be brothers in Christ period. When we Catholics truly love according to our Faith, the bigotry will be defeated.
BigBearPaul 3 years ago 2
If Catholics would only focus on the essential meaning of the Eucharist. I am a former seminarian and I left because I would have been expelled from the order I had joined. If I had been a gay seminarian at any other abbey in the order, no one would have cared. I hated myself, because I tought God hated me, because of my orientation. All I knew is that I did not want to end up as an athiest, and many gays have left the Church because of the lack of true Christian love.
BigBearPaul 3 years ago 2