@WaterySylph god is especially evil considering satan is supposedly super-human and super-powerful, so much higher than humans, and yet god apparantly lets satan fuck with humanity and try to mislead us. How negligent...
@matthewjumps And going by the claim that god is everything and created everything then god is evil and created evil. So running with this claim god actually is Satan and Satan is god. If god is not Satan than this means that Satan is more powerful than god because Satan is something god cannot be.
@WaterySylph Satan was not evil at first,but when he did not bow to Adam,and rebeld against God,God wanted to put him in hell,but satan made a deal with God.
Satan told God that he will try to take as many humans as he can,and God accepted,God wants to test us if we follow satan or not,if God did not make satan and we where all good,what is our purpose on this world,he could have put us all in heaven.
@2paclove2 firstly, wheres the proof that ANY of this is true, and not just another myth like the stories of zeus or vishnu?
second, your attempt to justify satans evil nature as part of gods 'test to see if we follow satan' makes god all the more responsible and malevolent. youre literally saying god had to make satan, along with all the pain and suffering, because there would be no purpose to living in perfect peace and harmony. but hey, if god wants us all in heaven, why create earth AT ALL?
@matthewjumps My dear friend you blinded you think you are advanced and all,well the babylonians were more advanced and the egyptians,and yet in our advanced time we can not do half of what they were doing,so explain to me how were we made,not how but from where and how did earth form,i know the theory but the materials that made earth from where did it come and the whole universe.
@2paclove2 really? you think that just because we cant explain everything regarding how the universe began, that automatically makes YOUR particular mythology true? every religion claims its gods are real, and every one uses the same dishonest tactic of saying 'where did everything come from? you dont know? i win, my religion is true! hahaha no, not the other religions... MY religion'
how stupid do you think i am? the only blinded person here is you if you think that is a valid argument.
and you actually BELIEVE that nonsense about the babylonians? REALLY? are you INSANE? again, you are the only blinded one here if you think that the babylonians achievements somehow compare to modern science, with our knowledge of electricity, powered flight, computing, the internet, DNA, nuclear energy, relativity, germs, neuroscience and SO much more.
you are going to compare that to a people that used animal entrails and stars to try and foretell the future?
@matthewjumps Well i know i came from Adam,and God made Adam,all 3 religions judiasim,christianity,Islam are the same God,i dont care if you dont believe in God but dont infect other people because some people dont know well their religion and they will get confused about it.
@2paclove2 oohhhhh, riiiiight.... you 'know' these things do you? tell me, how do you 'know' you came from some fellow called adam when there is no evidence other than your religions book of fairytales? all the ACTUAL evidence points to your common male ancestor living tens of thousands of years before you think your magical god created mythical adam. oh, thats right, you DONT know anything, youre just easily fooled by indoctrination.
you and your backwards beliefs are the only infection here.
@2paclove2 OOOH a DENTIST! you should have told me mr bigshot 'ill be a dentist next year.'
so youll be an 'almost' doctor? maybe? IF you pass college, which, judging by your arguments here, might actually be kind of hard for you.
you have morals from god? ah, right. so did god create the morals? or do they exist independent of him? cause if he made them, they are arbitrary and meaningless (big words for you there dentist-boy), if they exist without him, they arent from god are they?
i guess i shouldnt laugh, youre obviously young, and your beliefs mean a lot to you, despite your strangely hypocritical love of a drug-taking, violence-encouraging rapper, and you know what, at your age i was equally passionate and devoted to defending my faith... but im sorry to say that if you have even the slightest shred of honesty and integrity, and you do even the slightest bit of truly unbiased research, your faith wont stand up.
i hope you do, youll be better off for it. good luck.
@matthewjumps I am not saying that i am perfect in following religion,but you can not deny that humas are messed up in the head just like making the gay thing as normal,whats next sleeping with animals and they will call it normal 300 years from now?
@2paclove2 ah wonderful, another example of a young mind poisoned with bigotry & intolerance.
there is nothing wrong with homosexuality/bisexuality. the only people with a problem are the self-important judgemental pricks who think its ok to mess with peoples private business.
if you want to say its unnatural, look up 'homosexual stabbing rape bug' or 'gay animals' to see what your god supposedly 'created'.
bestiality is different, animals cant give informed consent, you make a dumb argument.
look, like i said, you are obviously young, devout and passionate about your beliefs. nothing i say will change that, and i know how you think and feel because i used to be a devout, passionate christian who believed the bible was true, homosexuality was wrong, evolution was a lie, and that god existed.
you may think i am an idiot, but my deconversion was only a result of reading about biology, physics, history, theology and philosophy. it took me a while, but eventually i let the facts win.
@matthewjumps I knew there homosexuality in animals,but animals dont get judged because they are not as inteligent as we are,and for the animals that dont make informed consent some of our grand grand etc children will say that we were non tolerant just as you say that homophobes are nontolerant.
@2paclove2 ok, thats what you believe, but all im saying is if god hates homosexuality so much why did he program it into so many animals instincts?
as for our grandchildren, youre commiting a slippery slope fallacy. its a common religious mistake. its quite a silly argument. according to your logic eventually we will all be necrophiliac murderous cannibals and calling it normal, but despite your worst fears, i dont think we need a magical god myth to stop that from happening.
@matthewjumps Animals kill and eat other animals,so by your logic we should kill each other and eat each other as well,if God was invented why did the 3 religions did not say that we should serve one person,help the poor,love every body and so on?,while an athiest can believe in what he thinks is alright.
@2paclove2 no, by my logic we should find our morals using reason, logic and empathy, and not some outdated, sexist, racist book written thousands of years ago by ignorant bronze age idiots.
morals dont come from the bible. your bible says slavery is moral, as well as genocide and rape. if you dont believe me, look up 'slavery in the bible' and read about how the bible justifies beating a slave to death as long as he dies after suffering 2 days. of course you will make excuses, i used to too.
@matthewjumps I am not christian,i am a Muslim,i did not read the bible but i know its a good religion but it was changed by the church after Islam came to remain in power,and i dont believe in blowing up towers and killing anyone,GOd judges not me.
@2paclove2 wow, you didnt read the bible yet you "know" its a "good" religion.
i give up, youre a deluded nut. you somehow think you can "know" all these things without even studying them properly. islam and christianity are both incredibly immoral, both contain passages in their holy books that justify slavery, sexism, violence and intolerance, and you are morally corrupt if you are ok with that.
go babble your nonsense elsewhere, your stupidity is no longer welcome here.
@matthewjumps I know good christians which are forgiving,and the muslim book says slaves are ok?Our prophet used to buy slaves and then set them free,islam sees every one as human,all colours races are invited,and sexism?did you know the prophets last words on bed were treat the women good and with respect,intolerence did you hear this verse you have your religion,i have mine and we muslims are allowed to marry women of the books,witch are jews,christians,learn your facts right.
@2paclove2 the quran recognises slavery, and concubinage of slaves. while there are provisions for freedom (as in the bible), the issue here is that slavery is immoral, and yet both the bible and quran not only condone slavery but give instructions on how to enact this immoral practice.
as for woman, the quran repeatedly indicates women are worth less than, and are more unclean than men. women are to be submissive and subservient to men, and men can take sex slaves.
you tell me to learn my facts right, but i have read verse after verse in the quran that condones slavery, condones sexism and violence towards woman, and encourages intolerance and hatred for homosexuals and non-believers.
you are probably a moderate muslim, like moderate christians, who pick the 'nice' parts from the bible/quran and ignore all the immoral parts, but because you are doing so, dont waste my time with your claims of morality.
i could sit here and read you verse after verse that clearly state women are inferior, having slaves is acceptable, homosexuals and non-believers are hated by allah, and a whole range of other backwards bullshit
but the truth is, your 'god-goggles' are so firmly in place you are ready to defend and make excuses (lame rubbish like 'it was an ancient time' or 'its out of context') for all of them, without paying attention to how immoral they are. learn some morals.
@matthewjumps and last time i checked, there were a LOT more than 3 religions you ignorant twit. forget about hinduism or buddhism? there are billions of people in those (and many more) faiths... and they dont believe in your silly god, they have their own silly gods.
unless you can bring some HARD EVIDENCE to the table that YOUR god exists, and not the other religions gods, then get lost and stop wasting everyones time... oh, and maybe try using your brain for a change.
its all about faith. christians seem STUPID to the world because we operate through our faith. but it is what it is
2 corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, its probably a duck.
If it sounds stupid, seems stupid, acts stupid and looks stupid... chances are its stupid.
If god lets satan, an apparently super-powerful being, mess with simple little humans and blind them to gods existence, god is a negligent asshole. If god hides from everyone and then punishes them for not believing, god is a vindictive moron.
Exercising healthy skepticism is a virtue. Blind, stupid faith, is not.
GOD acts as any decent parent would. when a child is being bullied some parents would go up to the bully and give him a taste of his own medicine. but God is like a parent who would realize that the bully is not his equal, and would instead show his child how to defend himself.
No, god did NOT act like a 'decent parent' - again, he set up a test that had the possibility of KILLING his children and their offspring, and then when his children failed, he demanded someone DIE for their failure, and then once jesus died, he HID from most people and demands everyone believe in and love him or they will go to hell or die at armageddon or whatever u believe.
Youre nuts if you think thats a 'loving parent' - if you really think that, I hope you dont have kids...
(cont) the past is not what matters what matters is the present and the future. what you chose in your present state will effect your eternity. what are you even arguing that God doesn't exist? that he's evil? that he doesnt love you? if that's the case your wrong 3 times. Just as a tree cancels out a tree. the new law cancels out the old. so that sin which once could not be forgiven now can be through Jesus Christ.
You are wrong. If something EVIL happened in the past, it DOES matter. If a parent set a test up for their children that KILLED their children when they failed it, then that is FUCKED. The whole idea completely negates the bibles claim of a loving, perfect god.
And dont give me the new law cancels out the old law rubbish. God is supposed to be unchangeing and eternal. If he did something in the past, he would do it again today and have no problems with it.
What DEATH are you talking about? spiritual or physical. because spiritual death is the most important because its eternal. and believers have no fear of that. you only fear DEATH because you chose death. Chose life the answer is so plain to see.
Rubbish, adam and eve supposedly died a physical death, and passed on physical death to their children, and apparently they would NOT have died if they hadnt eaten from the tree. They were supposed to live forever according to the bible.
because of the fact that God is a just and unchanging God he cant go back on his law That God and sin dont mix. and we are by nature sinful so he found a way to MAKE us pure and spotless in his sight. just to be with him. which toatally affirms the fact that he is a loving God. Think of his sacrifice its the only thing that matters.
Why couldnt he just forgive adam and eve without demanding people be killed to appease him? What a self-righteous prick.
If someone wronged you, broke your rules etc, forgiveness comes from YOU. A GOOD person wont demand PUNISHMENT, they are able to forgive the offender out of mercy and the goodness of their hearts.
The idea of the ransom again shows how ridiculous the bible and your god is.
HE DID FORGIVE US its up to US to accept the forgiveness under the condition we wont do it again. Like if your 18 year old destroys your house you ask him to leave, when he begs you forgive him under the condition he changes his ways. that not cruel matt its just logical.
Um no that illustration is flawed. He apparantley only forgave us AFTER someone (jesus) was KILLED to appease him.
So that would be like your 18 year old destroying your house (much worse than eating a fruit), and then you KILLING someone else and saying "OK now I killed someone cause thats how much I love you, now love me back or I will kill you too".
And dont talk to me about logic. You are totally incapable of logic, you have your god-goggles on and you cant see how ridiculously circular and backwards your logic is.
Dont waste your time continuing to justify your violent, self-righteous, unmerciful god with the same tired excuse.
so i have my GOD goggles on and you have your WORLD goggles on who's seeing things for what they really are? you dont even know that what you define as cruelty and and violence has been instilled in your mind through man. who's to say that blue is really blue bud.
I live in the physical universe. Its the only realm we can verify and confirm. I am completely right to base my understanding of the universe on ... the physical universe. You, on the other hand, believe in a realm and a being that, by definition CANNOT be verified.
Like I say in this video, if god DID care, he would SHOW HIMSELF to EVERYONE. That or he DOESNT EXIST.
And I DO know that morals are a construct of humanity, as a result of thousands of years of civilisation. No gods required.
by the way your calling me all sorts of names i can tell your angry that was not my attention, but it simply reminded me of every other atheist i've spoken to who just had to resort to name calling because they had no other way of backing up their closed mindedness. If your so secure in your belief why feel the need to change mine. I actually care about your soul. Your soul isn't satisfied with worldy logic, but that's all you will allow yourself to live by.
My 'soul'? You cant even prove i HAVE a soul? I, personally, AM satisfied by logic and reason. This universe is my universe, and I will look for answers within it.
I AM very angry. I am angry that I too wore god-goggles for 20 years. That I too was brainwashed and decieved by the total nonsense in the bible, that I too could spout excuses and justifications for gods apparent behaviour in the bible, actions that no sane human would EVER be able to justify.
could you please tell me what was the main thing that turned you from christianity? because i sense hurt, deeper than what you are expressing here. sometimes the best way to get answers are to think outside of yourself, and try to reason with the opposing side. so long as you put up a wall you can never understand.
I am trying to reason with you, but Im finding it hard to reason with someone who is so brainwashed they accept the rape and genocide in numbers 31 : 17-18.
I turned from religion, not just christianity. From religion, superstition, magical thinking, 'faith' (which means belief without evidence), i turned to reason, logic, healthy skepticism and science.
I hate religion for how it morally blinds and brainwashes people. I can, and DO understand christianity, thats why I see it for what it is.
i dont need to justify my God. He justifies himself. i had only hoped that you weren't as blinded as you are. you know if you ask questions sometimes you wont like the answers but it doesnt change them. I just hope if you didnt hear a word i said you hear that JESUS LOVES YOU WITH A PERFECT LOVE! i pray that holy spirit opens your eyes so that you can see God for who he really is. because only he can prove himself to you. i can only pray and i will be praying for you.
Yes, pray. Talk to your imaginary friend in the sky. Unfortunately prayer has been proven to work at the EXACT SAME RATE as RANDOM CHANCE.
Good luck with that. While youre busy praying for the things you want, people with brains are out there working hard for them instead of waiting for magical beings to drop them into their lap.
I hear you saying lots of things - but youre not making any SENSE. It is my right to attempt to use logic and reason to understand the world around me. I want to be CAREFUL what I believe, and not just accept things because they 'feel' right.
You can tell me jesus loved me. That has about as much effect on me as saying 'allah loves you' or 'santa claus loves you'.
omg. JESUS IS GOD. so what he killed himself? no he chose to die instead of us. and why do you attach the earthly stigma to death. it doesn't work that way to God, and jesus is not DEAD. so it would better said that ur 18 year destroyed the house, and there was already a rule that vandalism resulted in death. so instead of him being punished you say take my life instead. that is pure perfect LOVE
Again your illustration is ridiculous. Let me fix it for you - a guy vandalises your house and YOU have made a rule that demands someone DIE for the crime. So YOU kill YOURSELF instead of killing the vandal, but then you come back from the dead, (technically negating your punishment), and then continue to threaten the vandal with death unless he loves you.
I am saying that there is NO evidence that yahweh, allah, vishnu, cthulu, unicorns, fairies or leprecauns exist.
Im also saying there is so much WRONG with the character of yahweh as portrayed by the bible. If he is a perfect being, why does he need worship? How can I love a god who will kill me if I dont? Why would he create a deadly test for his children? Why did he command rape & genocide in the bible?
Even if your god did exist, how could anyone worship such a cruel, jealous, violent god?
even if their are no miracles that doesn't mean God doesnt exist. If you you can give me a sensible answer of how we/ the world was created with out there being a God then you might have something..
Sure, a total lack of miracles doesnt DISPROVE god, but it definately disproves ANY god that claims to be BOTH loving and fair, and ALSO willing to KILL or TORTURE anyone for not believing in him.
In other words, the god the bible describes CANT exist, because if he did exist and he really WAS loving and fair and cared about human life, he would appear to everyone, globally, personally, in an effort to make sure EVERYONE was saved from the punishment he was going to deal out.
And its very hard for anyone to really know how this universe came into existance. But if you can accept your god is able to always have existed, why cant the singularity have? One things for sure, outdated books of violence, genocide, bigotry, sexism and ignorance (the bible, the quran), are NOT the correct source for answers.
As far as how humans got here, it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt we evolved. Again showing how completely wrong the bible is.
The 'ENTIRE' bible isn't meant to be taken as a whole truth. The Bible is a collection of both Historical and Symbolic books. taking every single word literally is NOT what the Catholic Church teaches. Evolution isn't a 'proven' method. There is a reason it is called a Theory. I believe in the concept of Evolution though, and I still believe in God. science cannot explain all things..thats where religion comes in. check out peter kreeft's existance of God on youtube :) he's a philosopher
I already know that the catholics dont take every word literally. However, one thing they DO take literally is hell. And if people are going to be punished in hell for not believing in god, then if god really loves people he would perform miracles for EVERYONE like he did for Saul/Paul so that everyone would be more likely to avoid hell.
Also, you dont understand the term 'theory'. Science uses the term gravitational theory, theory of relativity, germ theory - in science a 'theory' is a collection of explanations for observed phenomenon supported by facts and evidence.
You have as much right to doubt evolution as you do gravity or atoms. They too are labelled 'theories'.
And when we cant explain something, that is NOT where religion comes in you moron. If we cant explain something, we look for FACTS & EVIDENCE, not fairytales.
It's very intelligent to call somone a moron I don't understand the reason for name calling. Many people have difficulty understanding this concept you mention. Many people say "If God can prove His existance to me I'll believe" but the thing is that God doesn't want to force people to believe and love Him he wants us to do it on our own using the free will that He gave us. His revelation to the entire world will defeat this purpose. He wants us to want to know Him. He truly loves us.
First, Hell is not some burning Pit. Hell is basically the absense of what God is, i.e. Love, Happiness and all that is good. Also, God doesn't send us to Hell it is we who send ourselves to Hell when we turn our back on God and don't follow His teachings because we choose to ignore His love for us. Also that is one of the reasons why He wanted His word to be spread because He WANTS us to be there with Him in heaven. You've probably heard about the various Mariyan Apparitions all over the world.
You ARE a moron. Using free will to explain gods total absence shows how stupid you really are.
If god is hiding to avoid 'forcing us to believe in him' why did he appear to people in the bible? And according to the bible, the free will aspect is regarding wether or not people SERVE god, not wether or not they believe in him. There is NO REASON for god to hide.
And "Marian Apparations" are bullshit. They have never been substantiated or confirmed, they are meaningless hoaxes & hallicunations.
maybe reading up on some actual theology may help you understand the concept then since it's a lot more complex to understand if one is not open to understanding it. On a final note why are you so worried about the concept of Hell you won't be going there right? since it doesn't exist? God has his ways of coming into a person's life when they least expect it :) hopefully He comes into your life :)
Mother Mary has appeared in Lourdes (France), Fatima (Portugal), Guadalupe(Mexico) at various times over the centuries yet people still don't believe and call them Hallucinations. So I think no matter how much proof God provides a non believer IF one is not willing to believe he won't. Miraculous things only happen to those who have FAITH in God..there are plenty of people I know who have experienced it.
Im not worried about hell, Im worried about the millions of people alive today who live their lives governed by religion. People like you who are brainwashed and ignorant, people who are so gullible that they could believe the bullshit stories about magical appearances and ghosts and resurrections, when there is NO scientific evidence of any of it.
Find me a scientific study confirming just ONE miracle. You cant, so stop wasting my time with your fairytales.
And there is nothing WRONG with wanting proof of something. If you dont need proof, why dont you believe in Allah and Vishnu and Buddha and all the other gods? Why not have faith in them too? Only IDIOTS believe things without evidence.
The problem with your second-hand stories and rumors is EVERY religion has countless people who claim to have seen gods and angels - the only way to filter out the all nonsense is by SCIENTIFICALLY TESTING the claims, NONE of which have been substantiated.
What is your opinion about Scientists who also believed in God like Galileo, Pascal, Newton and Pastuer? Do you think they were ignorant too? this i'm asking just as an opinion. Also, what do think about Atheists who find God?
i'm not being rude just asking a question. what is so wrong about daring to believe that there might be something more than what we see and are told, what's wrong with believing that there is someone who love's us so much that he gave his life, so we could have new life and is guiding us through this one. If i were God i would want you to love me perfectly" not because i look like this, or i can do that. but simply cause i loved you perfectly first.
There is something VERY wrong with a story about someone who supposedly loves you, yet tests your ancestors with a deadly test (the tree in the garden of eden), and then when his children fail the test he set up, curses you for something you never even did, then demands that blood has to be shed so you can be forgiven.
If god really loved you he would forgive you. Forgiveness doesnt need sacrifice or punishment, it comes from the forgiver.
The whole story is clearly fucked. Its VERY wrong.
While its a touching idea that someone would give their life for others, and I applaud that, if the life is being shed simply to appease a god who's total lack of mercy and forgiveness demands his own son DIE to make him happy, that is DISGUSTING.
There is NOTHING positive about that story. The actions of the god of the bible is FAR from 'perfect love' - more like self-righteous, violent, psychotic, contradictory, jealous and really, all too HUMAN, clearly because god was invented by... humans.
Gods ways are not our ways. what you see as unforgivenes is worldly logical.jesus who btw is God knew he would die before he created us because sin had already existed. Satan had a plan to pervert the "perfect plan of God, by corrupting man, and so God chose to give his life. its up to us to take or to refuse his hand. matt hes even now holding out his hand to you. I was an unbeliever b4 but i asked God to show me he was real and he did. i bet if you ask him to he'd do the same.
He set up a test, and left instructions. eat and die or eat everything else in the garden and be fine. How is it his fault that we disobeyed him, and if "we" didnt "we" would eventually. He knew satan's plan, the tree was to warn us. but we screwed it up and so God found another way to save us. ( How cruel of God to give his life for the love of "us" who dont deserve it)
Im sorry, but it is completely right to attempt to use our logic when deciding which, if any gods, to believe in.
You must understand the idea that setting up a test that is deadly to the participants if they should happen to fail, is plainly disgusting. What my video "God, the worst father ever" for more regarding how wrong it is to create a test for your children that will kill them if they mess up.
You cant hide behind nonsense like "gods ways are higher" - the story is clearly fucked.
And again, if god is only offering his life to appease HIMSELF and his OWN sense of justice, because our ancestors supposedly failed a deadly test HE SET UP, and HE demands a life be taken to satisfy HIS unwavering, unmerciful and self-righteous standards of conditional forgiveness, then that IS cruel and twisted.
Btw, I highly doubt any demonstrations of gods reality to you. While they may have been good enough for you, I dont think they would be good enough for anyone commited to REAL truth.
what is so wrong with just chosing the right path so you dont have to worry about death. the sting of death has been conquered, and now all that is left for those who chose it is eternal life.
Whats so wrong is youre oversimplifying the issue, & completely ignoring GODS part in the so-called 'fall of man'. IF GOD DIDNT PUT THE TREE THERE, NO-ONE WOULD HAVE HAD TO DIE. EVER! WHY RISK KILLING YOUR CHILDREN WITH A DEADLY TREE? Would you set up a test that could KILL your child? The idea is NONSENSE!
Then again, youre probably also completely ignoring all the scientific evidence that demonstrates all living things evolved, so I guess you might as well maintain the ignorance.
look i'm not insulting you, an ignorant person would have told you to go to hell. i'm seriously trying to understand and maybe you would too if you were trying. i believe your totally oversimplifying the issue by focusing on the wrong tree. The tree that Jesus hung from represents the cancellation of the tree of knowledge good and evil. it was a test. it would have been a cruel one if that tree were the only one in the garden.
Look, you cant IGNORE the tree in the garden and just focus on the tree jesus hung on. Yes, the tree of knowledge was a test. But again, how can you not understand that the test was a disgusting, DEADLY test?
Answer me this - if you had a son or daughter, would YOU test their obedience to you with a test that could KILL them if they failed it? Answer that question DIRECTLY please.
If you answered yes, you would be considered insane and your children would be put in protective custody.
your making it seem as if God created the test so that you would fail. This was and is a test that God has fully equipped us for, and is basically giving us the answers to. the only way we could fail is if we said Lord i choose the wrong answer despite it all. and evidently it would be your own fault not his.
The option adam and eve would fail was obviously a possiblity when god created the test. If it wasnt, then there would be no point making the test. Would you create a test for your children that COULD result in their death? Even if that was a less likely outcome, would you create such a test?
Of course not. Think about it properly and you will see how wrong it is.
The test was necessary even with the risk in order for him to be sure that we loved him FREELY. That we would chose him. He didnt say love me or die. he said love me and be aware of the rules. I cant tolerate sin and the wages of sin is death. just like satan fell anyone who sins will die. so there was only a possiblity of death if WE chose to ignore the law (which by the way is now easier to follow) becasuse of christ. but if we chose to love him freely we die to our flesh and live like christ.
That is ridiculous. WHY INVOLVE DEATH IN THE TEST? Why test your childrens love with a test that will kill them?
He DID say love me or die. And HE was the one who set up the system whereby exercising 'free will' resulted in death.
And how can you accept a god who's laws are supposedly perfect and unchangeing, yet the mosaic law is now NOT perfect, and HAS changed, even though it WAS perfect? How ridiculous.
Billions of people do believe in a God and find comfort and order in that. I love science don't get me wrong and like many people I believe science and religion can coexist. I don't belive in Allah, Vishnu and Buddha simply because I already believe in Christ and his teaching. I've had plenty of evidence of God in my life and that is why I believe in Him. Many people don't see religion as restriction but as freedom.
The number or type of people who hold a false belief doesnt change the fact that the belief is false.
Like you, some great scientists believe in a god because its the god they were raised with and are used to. Does that justify their belief or make it true? Of course not.
When youre in a religion, brainwashed by it, you dont see it as a restriction. But from the outside looking in, objectively, religion needlessly controls and manipulates billions of people.
Youre comment shows how mentally stagnant you are. You believe your beliefs and arent interested in questioning them or changing them.
How can you justify your personal beliefs when the EXACT SAME justifications you offer can be used by EVERY OTHER religion? They cant ALL be right. You have to be willing to investigate your beliefs, to question them regularly, to research and to learn.
And what evidence have you had in your life? My guess - phony miracles and emotional responses - eg, none.
exactly, thats the point - no miracles occur for amputees or people with downs syndrome etc - the only 'miracles' that ever happen are those that could have happened without any supernatural intervention, in other words, NOT MIRACLES.
But GodsEvangilist is insane and seems to think magical miracles happen all the time. If it really did, it would be BIG news.
Just because it's not being spoken about doesn't mean it doesn't happen.The simple reason people aren't brought back to life is merely that God doesn't will it! miracles aren't needed for amputees because man was able to use his mind which was given by God to invent devices to aid amputees..so i see tht as a miralce in that :)
Thats ridiculous. If god chooses not to perform miracles for amputees simply because we can invent devices to help them (poor substitutes for having a real limb) - then why the hell would god do ANY miracles, since most of the things that DO get claimed to be miraculous, are things that we can PROPERLY fix ourselves with modern medicine etc.
Your logic is unbelievably stupid. Amputees NEED miracles more than almost anyone else.
And there is no miracle in medicine, just hard work & science.
There have been many, many documented miracles such as healings, in fact the hospital in my town probably has some. We have prayed for many people with cancer, tumors, heart disease etc. However there are not many people that get raise from the dead nowadays. Yet there are still a few documentations of that too. We have also seen things such as jewels that fall from heaven and the jewelers say that there cut and quality is so perfect that they cannot place a value on them, no matter there size.
Oh really? Thankyou for enlightening us all! Now we believe you!
What the hell are you smoking? Sure, you may have prayed for people with cancer, heart disease, and SOME of them may get better, but some of the ones you pray for die, & at exactly the same rate people who DONT get prayers offered for them.
And all this bullshit about jewels from heaven and resurrections? Where did you pull that from? Show me one article, paper or study about the 'magical jewels from heaven' or a resurrection.
And the other thing you dont seem to understand is - even if something DOES happen which we have no explanation for, doesnt mean its a miracle! It means we need to study it more.
If your bullshit about perfect gems from heaven is true, then who says meteorites cant fall into the atmosphere and crystalise? As for resurrection, who says the 'dead' person wasnt actually just incorrectly pronounced dead?
Anyway, youre talking nonsense, there is no GLOBALLY accepted account of even ONE miracle.
did you take that video on the loo?
silverntiger 1 year ago
Satan would not have any power that God did not give him and let him utilize. God created Satan the way he is. If Satan is evil than God is evil.
WaterySylph 2 years ago
@WaterySylph god is especially evil considering satan is supposedly super-human and super-powerful, so much higher than humans, and yet god apparantly lets satan fuck with humanity and try to mislead us. How negligent...
matthewjumps 1 year ago
@matthewjumps And going by the claim that god is everything and created everything then god is evil and created evil. So running with this claim god actually is Satan and Satan is god. If god is not Satan than this means that Satan is more powerful than god because Satan is something god cannot be.
WaterySylph 1 year ago
@WaterySylph Satan was not evil at first,but when he did not bow to Adam,and rebeld against God,God wanted to put him in hell,but satan made a deal with God.
Satan told God that he will try to take as many humans as he can,and God accepted,God wants to test us if we follow satan or not,if God did not make satan and we where all good,what is our purpose on this world,he could have put us all in heaven.
2paclove2 7 months ago
@2paclove2 firstly, wheres the proof that ANY of this is true, and not just another myth like the stories of zeus or vishnu?
second, your attempt to justify satans evil nature as part of gods 'test to see if we follow satan' makes god all the more responsible and malevolent. youre literally saying god had to make satan, along with all the pain and suffering, because there would be no purpose to living in perfect peace and harmony. but hey, if god wants us all in heaven, why create earth AT ALL?
matthewjumps 7 months ago
@matthewjumps My dear friend you blinded you think you are advanced and all,well the babylonians were more advanced and the egyptians,and yet in our advanced time we can not do half of what they were doing,so explain to me how were we made,not how but from where and how did earth form,i know the theory but the materials that made earth from where did it come and the whole universe.
2paclove2 7 months ago
@2paclove2 really? you think that just because we cant explain everything regarding how the universe began, that automatically makes YOUR particular mythology true? every religion claims its gods are real, and every one uses the same dishonest tactic of saying 'where did everything come from? you dont know? i win, my religion is true! hahaha no, not the other religions... MY religion'
how stupid do you think i am? the only blinded person here is you if you think that is a valid argument.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
and you actually BELIEVE that nonsense about the babylonians? REALLY? are you INSANE? again, you are the only blinded one here if you think that the babylonians achievements somehow compare to modern science, with our knowledge of electricity, powered flight, computing, the internet, DNA, nuclear energy, relativity, germs, neuroscience and SO much more.
you are going to compare that to a people that used animal entrails and stars to try and foretell the future?
you are COMPLETELY RETARDED.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
@matthewjumps Well i know i came from Adam,and God made Adam,all 3 religions judiasim,christianity,Islam are the same God,i dont care if you dont believe in God but dont infect other people because some people dont know well their religion and they will get confused about it.
2paclove2 7 months ago
@2paclove2 oohhhhh, riiiiight.... you 'know' these things do you? tell me, how do you 'know' you came from some fellow called adam when there is no evidence other than your religions book of fairytales? all the ACTUAL evidence points to your common male ancestor living tens of thousands of years before you think your magical god created mythical adam. oh, thats right, you DONT know anything, youre just easily fooled by indoctrination.
you and your backwards beliefs are the only infection here.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
@matthewjumps Next year i will go to college to be a dentist what will you be mr. future advanced thinker?
You call me backwards because i have morals from God,leave me alone and mind your own bussines and leave teens alone to.
2paclove2 7 months ago
@2paclove2 OOOH a DENTIST! you should have told me mr bigshot 'ill be a dentist next year.'
so youll be an 'almost' doctor? maybe? IF you pass college, which, judging by your arguments here, might actually be kind of hard for you.
you have morals from god? ah, right. so did god create the morals? or do they exist independent of him? cause if he made them, they are arbitrary and meaningless (big words for you there dentist-boy), if they exist without him, they arent from god are they?
matthewjumps 7 months ago
i guess i shouldnt laugh, youre obviously young, and your beliefs mean a lot to you, despite your strangely hypocritical love of a drug-taking, violence-encouraging rapper, and you know what, at your age i was equally passionate and devoted to defending my faith... but im sorry to say that if you have even the slightest shred of honesty and integrity, and you do even the slightest bit of truly unbiased research, your faith wont stand up.
i hope you do, youll be better off for it. good luck.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
@matthewjumps I am not saying that i am perfect in following religion,but you can not deny that humas are messed up in the head just like making the gay thing as normal,whats next sleeping with animals and they will call it normal 300 years from now?
2paclove2 7 months ago
@2paclove2 ah wonderful, another example of a young mind poisoned with bigotry & intolerance.
there is nothing wrong with homosexuality/bisexuality. the only people with a problem are the self-important judgemental pricks who think its ok to mess with peoples private business.
if you want to say its unnatural, look up 'homosexual stabbing rape bug' or 'gay animals' to see what your god supposedly 'created'.
bestiality is different, animals cant give informed consent, you make a dumb argument.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
look, like i said, you are obviously young, devout and passionate about your beliefs. nothing i say will change that, and i know how you think and feel because i used to be a devout, passionate christian who believed the bible was true, homosexuality was wrong, evolution was a lie, and that god existed.
you may think i am an idiot, but my deconversion was only a result of reading about biology, physics, history, theology and philosophy. it took me a while, but eventually i let the facts win.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
@matthewjumps I knew there homosexuality in animals,but animals dont get judged because they are not as inteligent as we are,and for the animals that dont make informed consent some of our grand grand etc children will say that we were non tolerant just as you say that homophobes are nontolerant.
2paclove2 7 months ago
@2paclove2 ok, thats what you believe, but all im saying is if god hates homosexuality so much why did he program it into so many animals instincts?
as for our grandchildren, youre commiting a slippery slope fallacy. its a common religious mistake. its quite a silly argument. according to your logic eventually we will all be necrophiliac murderous cannibals and calling it normal, but despite your worst fears, i dont think we need a magical god myth to stop that from happening.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
@matthewjumps Animals kill and eat other animals,so by your logic we should kill each other and eat each other as well,if God was invented why did the 3 religions did not say that we should serve one person,help the poor,love every body and so on?,while an athiest can believe in what he thinks is alright.
2paclove2 7 months ago
@2paclove2 no, by my logic we should find our morals using reason, logic and empathy, and not some outdated, sexist, racist book written thousands of years ago by ignorant bronze age idiots.
morals dont come from the bible. your bible says slavery is moral, as well as genocide and rape. if you dont believe me, look up 'slavery in the bible' and read about how the bible justifies beating a slave to death as long as he dies after suffering 2 days. of course you will make excuses, i used to too.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
@matthewjumps I am not christian,i am a Muslim,i did not read the bible but i know its a good religion but it was changed by the church after Islam came to remain in power,and i dont believe in blowing up towers and killing anyone,GOd judges not me.
2paclove2 7 months ago
@2paclove2 wow, you didnt read the bible yet you "know" its a "good" religion.
i give up, youre a deluded nut. you somehow think you can "know" all these things without even studying them properly. islam and christianity are both incredibly immoral, both contain passages in their holy books that justify slavery, sexism, violence and intolerance, and you are morally corrupt if you are ok with that.
go babble your nonsense elsewhere, your stupidity is no longer welcome here.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
@matthewjumps I know good christians which are forgiving,and the muslim book says slaves are ok?Our prophet used to buy slaves and then set them free,islam sees every one as human,all colours races are invited,and sexism?did you know the prophets last words on bed were treat the women good and with respect,intolerence did you hear this verse you have your religion,i have mine and we muslims are allowed to marry women of the books,witch are jews,christians,learn your facts right.
2paclove2 7 months ago
@2paclove2 the quran recognises slavery, and concubinage of slaves. while there are provisions for freedom (as in the bible), the issue here is that slavery is immoral, and yet both the bible and quran not only condone slavery but give instructions on how to enact this immoral practice.
as for woman, the quran repeatedly indicates women are worth less than, and are more unclean than men. women are to be submissive and subservient to men, and men can take sex slaves.
of course you will deny it.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
you tell me to learn my facts right, but i have read verse after verse in the quran that condones slavery, condones sexism and violence towards woman, and encourages intolerance and hatred for homosexuals and non-believers.
you are probably a moderate muslim, like moderate christians, who pick the 'nice' parts from the bible/quran and ignore all the immoral parts, but because you are doing so, dont waste my time with your claims of morality.
i wont be wasting my time with this conversation
matthewjumps 7 months ago
@matthewjumps Where did you get these info on the Koran,a site for atheists?
2paclove2 7 months ago
@2paclove2 no, from your quran
i could sit here and read you verse after verse that clearly state women are inferior, having slaves is acceptable, homosexuals and non-believers are hated by allah, and a whole range of other backwards bullshit
but the truth is, your 'god-goggles' are so firmly in place you are ready to defend and make excuses (lame rubbish like 'it was an ancient time' or 'its out of context') for all of them, without paying attention to how immoral they are. learn some morals.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
@matthewjumps and last time i checked, there were a LOT more than 3 religions you ignorant twit. forget about hinduism or buddhism? there are billions of people in those (and many more) faiths... and they dont believe in your silly god, they have their own silly gods.
unless you can bring some HARD EVIDENCE to the table that YOUR god exists, and not the other religions gods, then get lost and stop wasting everyones time... oh, and maybe try using your brain for a change.
matthewjumps 7 months ago
its all about faith. christians seem STUPID to the world because we operate through our faith. but it is what it is
2 corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
nadua1 2 years ago
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, its probably a duck.
If it sounds stupid, seems stupid, acts stupid and looks stupid... chances are its stupid.
If god lets satan, an apparently super-powerful being, mess with simple little humans and blind them to gods existence, god is a negligent asshole. If god hides from everyone and then punishes them for not believing, god is a vindictive moron.
Exercising healthy skepticism is a virtue. Blind, stupid faith, is not.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
GOD acts as any decent parent would. when a child is being bullied some parents would go up to the bully and give him a taste of his own medicine. but God is like a parent who would realize that the bully is not his equal, and would instead show his child how to defend himself.
nadua1 2 years ago
No, god did NOT act like a 'decent parent' - again, he set up a test that had the possibility of KILLING his children and their offspring, and then when his children failed, he demanded someone DIE for their failure, and then once jesus died, he HID from most people and demands everyone believe in and love him or they will go to hell or die at armageddon or whatever u believe.
Youre nuts if you think thats a 'loving parent' - if you really think that, I hope you dont have kids...
matthewjumps 2 years ago
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WaterySylph 2 years ago
(cont) the past is not what matters what matters is the present and the future. what you chose in your present state will effect your eternity. what are you even arguing that God doesn't exist? that he's evil? that he doesnt love you? if that's the case your wrong 3 times. Just as a tree cancels out a tree. the new law cancels out the old. so that sin which once could not be forgiven now can be through Jesus Christ.
nadua1 2 years ago
btw christianity is a lifestyle of humility. the proud will never be able to understand or accept that WE are sinful God cannot be.
nadua1 2 years ago
You are wrong. If something EVIL happened in the past, it DOES matter. If a parent set a test up for their children that KILLED their children when they failed it, then that is FUCKED. The whole idea completely negates the bibles claim of a loving, perfect god.
And dont give me the new law cancels out the old law rubbish. God is supposed to be unchangeing and eternal. If he did something in the past, he would do it again today and have no problems with it.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
What DEATH are you talking about? spiritual or physical. because spiritual death is the most important because its eternal. and believers have no fear of that. you only fear DEATH because you chose death. Chose life the answer is so plain to see.
nadua1 2 years ago
Rubbish, adam and eve supposedly died a physical death, and passed on physical death to their children, and apparently they would NOT have died if they hadnt eaten from the tree. They were supposed to live forever according to the bible.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
because of the fact that God is a just and unchanging God he cant go back on his law That God and sin dont mix. and we are by nature sinful so he found a way to MAKE us pure and spotless in his sight. just to be with him. which toatally affirms the fact that he is a loving God. Think of his sacrifice its the only thing that matters.
nadua1 2 years ago
Why couldnt he just forgive adam and eve without demanding people be killed to appease him? What a self-righteous prick.
If someone wronged you, broke your rules etc, forgiveness comes from YOU. A GOOD person wont demand PUNISHMENT, they are able to forgive the offender out of mercy and the goodness of their hearts.
The idea of the ransom again shows how ridiculous the bible and your god is.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
HE DID FORGIVE US its up to US to accept the forgiveness under the condition we wont do it again. Like if your 18 year old destroys your house you ask him to leave, when he begs you forgive him under the condition he changes his ways. that not cruel matt its just logical.
nadua1 2 years ago
Um no that illustration is flawed. He apparantley only forgave us AFTER someone (jesus) was KILLED to appease him.
So that would be like your 18 year old destroying your house (much worse than eating a fruit), and then you KILLING someone else and saying "OK now I killed someone cause thats how much I love you, now love me back or I will kill you too".
matthewjumps 2 years ago
And dont talk to me about logic. You are totally incapable of logic, you have your god-goggles on and you cant see how ridiculously circular and backwards your logic is.
Dont waste your time continuing to justify your violent, self-righteous, unmerciful god with the same tired excuse.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
so i have my GOD goggles on and you have your WORLD goggles on who's seeing things for what they really are? you dont even know that what you define as cruelty and and violence has been instilled in your mind through man. who's to say that blue is really blue bud.
nadua1 2 years ago
I live in the physical universe. Its the only realm we can verify and confirm. I am completely right to base my understanding of the universe on ... the physical universe. You, on the other hand, believe in a realm and a being that, by definition CANNOT be verified.
Like I say in this video, if god DID care, he would SHOW HIMSELF to EVERYONE. That or he DOESNT EXIST.
And I DO know that morals are a construct of humanity, as a result of thousands of years of civilisation. No gods required.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
by the way your calling me all sorts of names i can tell your angry that was not my attention, but it simply reminded me of every other atheist i've spoken to who just had to resort to name calling because they had no other way of backing up their closed mindedness. If your so secure in your belief why feel the need to change mine. I actually care about your soul. Your soul isn't satisfied with worldy logic, but that's all you will allow yourself to live by.
nadua1 2 years ago
My 'soul'? You cant even prove i HAVE a soul? I, personally, AM satisfied by logic and reason. This universe is my universe, and I will look for answers within it.
I AM very angry. I am angry that I too wore god-goggles for 20 years. That I too was brainwashed and decieved by the total nonsense in the bible, that I too could spout excuses and justifications for gods apparent behaviour in the bible, actions that no sane human would EVER be able to justify.
My mind is open - to EVIDENCE.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
could you please tell me what was the main thing that turned you from christianity? because i sense hurt, deeper than what you are expressing here. sometimes the best way to get answers are to think outside of yourself, and try to reason with the opposing side. so long as you put up a wall you can never understand.
nadua1 2 years ago
I am trying to reason with you, but Im finding it hard to reason with someone who is so brainwashed they accept the rape and genocide in numbers 31 : 17-18.
I turned from religion, not just christianity. From religion, superstition, magical thinking, 'faith' (which means belief without evidence), i turned to reason, logic, healthy skepticism and science.
I hate religion for how it morally blinds and brainwashes people. I can, and DO understand christianity, thats why I see it for what it is.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
i dont need to justify my God. He justifies himself. i had only hoped that you weren't as blinded as you are. you know if you ask questions sometimes you wont like the answers but it doesnt change them. I just hope if you didnt hear a word i said you hear that JESUS LOVES YOU WITH A PERFECT LOVE! i pray that holy spirit opens your eyes so that you can see God for who he really is. because only he can prove himself to you. i can only pray and i will be praying for you.
nadua1 2 years ago
Yes, pray. Talk to your imaginary friend in the sky. Unfortunately prayer has been proven to work at the EXACT SAME RATE as RANDOM CHANCE.
Good luck with that. While youre busy praying for the things you want, people with brains are out there working hard for them instead of waiting for magical beings to drop them into their lap.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
I hear you saying lots of things - but youre not making any SENSE. It is my right to attempt to use logic and reason to understand the world around me. I want to be CAREFUL what I believe, and not just accept things because they 'feel' right.
You can tell me jesus loved me. That has about as much effect on me as saying 'allah loves you' or 'santa claus loves you'.
Extraordinary claims (gods, miracles, aliens) require EXTRAORDINARY JUSTIFICATION, or PROOF.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
omg. JESUS IS GOD. so what he killed himself? no he chose to die instead of us. and why do you attach the earthly stigma to death. it doesn't work that way to God, and jesus is not DEAD. so it would better said that ur 18 year destroyed the house, and there was already a rule that vandalism resulted in death. so instead of him being punished you say take my life instead. that is pure perfect LOVE
nadua1 2 years ago
Again your illustration is ridiculous. Let me fix it for you - a guy vandalises your house and YOU have made a rule that demands someone DIE for the crime. So YOU kill YOURSELF instead of killing the vandal, but then you come back from the dead, (technically negating your punishment), and then continue to threaten the vandal with death unless he loves you.
What an INSANE, STUPID load of NONSENSE.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
I am saying that there is NO evidence that yahweh, allah, vishnu, cthulu, unicorns, fairies or leprecauns exist.
Im also saying there is so much WRONG with the character of yahweh as portrayed by the bible. If he is a perfect being, why does he need worship? How can I love a god who will kill me if I dont? Why would he create a deadly test for his children? Why did he command rape & genocide in the bible?
Even if your god did exist, how could anyone worship such a cruel, jealous, violent god?
matthewjumps 2 years ago
even if their are no miracles that doesn't mean God doesnt exist. If you you can give me a sensible answer of how we/ the world was created with out there being a God then you might have something..
leakim26 2 years ago
Sure, a total lack of miracles doesnt DISPROVE god, but it definately disproves ANY god that claims to be BOTH loving and fair, and ALSO willing to KILL or TORTURE anyone for not believing in him.
In other words, the god the bible describes CANT exist, because if he did exist and he really WAS loving and fair and cared about human life, he would appear to everyone, globally, personally, in an effort to make sure EVERYONE was saved from the punishment he was going to deal out.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
And its very hard for anyone to really know how this universe came into existance. But if you can accept your god is able to always have existed, why cant the singularity have? One things for sure, outdated books of violence, genocide, bigotry, sexism and ignorance (the bible, the quran), are NOT the correct source for answers.
As far as how humans got here, it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt we evolved. Again showing how completely wrong the bible is.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
The 'ENTIRE' bible isn't meant to be taken as a whole truth. The Bible is a collection of both Historical and Symbolic books. taking every single word literally is NOT what the Catholic Church teaches. Evolution isn't a 'proven' method. There is a reason it is called a Theory. I believe in the concept of Evolution though, and I still believe in God. science cannot explain all things..thats where religion comes in. check out peter kreeft's existance of God on youtube :) he's a philosopher
leakim26 2 years ago
I already know that the catholics dont take every word literally. However, one thing they DO take literally is hell. And if people are going to be punished in hell for not believing in god, then if god really loves people he would perform miracles for EVERYONE like he did for Saul/Paul so that everyone would be more likely to avoid hell.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
Also, you dont understand the term 'theory'. Science uses the term gravitational theory, theory of relativity, germ theory - in science a 'theory' is a collection of explanations for observed phenomenon supported by facts and evidence.
You have as much right to doubt evolution as you do gravity or atoms. They too are labelled 'theories'.
And when we cant explain something, that is NOT where religion comes in you moron. If we cant explain something, we look for FACTS & EVIDENCE, not fairytales.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
It's very intelligent to call somone a moron I don't understand the reason for name calling. Many people have difficulty understanding this concept you mention. Many people say "If God can prove His existance to me I'll believe" but the thing is that God doesn't want to force people to believe and love Him he wants us to do it on our own using the free will that He gave us. His revelation to the entire world will defeat this purpose. He wants us to want to know Him. He truly loves us.
leakim26 2 years ago
First, Hell is not some burning Pit. Hell is basically the absense of what God is, i.e. Love, Happiness and all that is good. Also, God doesn't send us to Hell it is we who send ourselves to Hell when we turn our back on God and don't follow His teachings because we choose to ignore His love for us. Also that is one of the reasons why He wanted His word to be spread because He WANTS us to be there with Him in heaven. You've probably heard about the various Mariyan Apparitions all over the world.
leakim26 2 years ago
You ARE a moron. Using free will to explain gods total absence shows how stupid you really are.
If god is hiding to avoid 'forcing us to believe in him' why did he appear to people in the bible? And according to the bible, the free will aspect is regarding wether or not people SERVE god, not wether or not they believe in him. There is NO REASON for god to hide.
And "Marian Apparations" are bullshit. They have never been substantiated or confirmed, they are meaningless hoaxes & hallicunations.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
maybe reading up on some actual theology may help you understand the concept then since it's a lot more complex to understand if one is not open to understanding it. On a final note why are you so worried about the concept of Hell you won't be going there right? since it doesn't exist? God has his ways of coming into a person's life when they least expect it :) hopefully He comes into your life :)
leakim26 2 years ago
Mother Mary has appeared in Lourdes (France), Fatima (Portugal), Guadalupe(Mexico) at various times over the centuries yet people still don't believe and call them Hallucinations. So I think no matter how much proof God provides a non believer IF one is not willing to believe he won't. Miraculous things only happen to those who have FAITH in God..there are plenty of people I know who have experienced it.
leakim26 2 years ago
Im not worried about hell, Im worried about the millions of people alive today who live their lives governed by religion. People like you who are brainwashed and ignorant, people who are so gullible that they could believe the bullshit stories about magical appearances and ghosts and resurrections, when there is NO scientific evidence of any of it.
Find me a scientific study confirming just ONE miracle. You cant, so stop wasting my time with your fairytales.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
And there is nothing WRONG with wanting proof of something. If you dont need proof, why dont you believe in Allah and Vishnu and Buddha and all the other gods? Why not have faith in them too? Only IDIOTS believe things without evidence.
The problem with your second-hand stories and rumors is EVERY religion has countless people who claim to have seen gods and angels - the only way to filter out the all nonsense is by SCIENTIFICALLY TESTING the claims, NONE of which have been substantiated.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
What is your opinion about Scientists who also believed in God like Galileo, Pascal, Newton and Pastuer? Do you think they were ignorant too? this i'm asking just as an opinion. Also, what do think about Atheists who find God?
leakim26 2 years ago
i'm not being rude just asking a question. what is so wrong about daring to believe that there might be something more than what we see and are told, what's wrong with believing that there is someone who love's us so much that he gave his life, so we could have new life and is guiding us through this one. If i were God i would want you to love me perfectly" not because i look like this, or i can do that. but simply cause i loved you perfectly first.
nadua1 2 years ago
There is something VERY wrong with a story about someone who supposedly loves you, yet tests your ancestors with a deadly test (the tree in the garden of eden), and then when his children fail the test he set up, curses you for something you never even did, then demands that blood has to be shed so you can be forgiven.
If god really loved you he would forgive you. Forgiveness doesnt need sacrifice or punishment, it comes from the forgiver.
The whole story is clearly fucked. Its VERY wrong.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
While its a touching idea that someone would give their life for others, and I applaud that, if the life is being shed simply to appease a god who's total lack of mercy and forgiveness demands his own son DIE to make him happy, that is DISGUSTING.
There is NOTHING positive about that story. The actions of the god of the bible is FAR from 'perfect love' - more like self-righteous, violent, psychotic, contradictory, jealous and really, all too HUMAN, clearly because god was invented by... humans.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
Gods ways are not our ways. what you see as unforgivenes is worldly logical.jesus who btw is God knew he would die before he created us because sin had already existed. Satan had a plan to pervert the "perfect plan of God, by corrupting man, and so God chose to give his life. its up to us to take or to refuse his hand. matt hes even now holding out his hand to you. I was an unbeliever b4 but i asked God to show me he was real and he did. i bet if you ask him to he'd do the same.
God bless u.
nadua1 2 years ago
He set up a test, and left instructions. eat and die or eat everything else in the garden and be fine. How is it his fault that we disobeyed him, and if "we" didnt "we" would eventually. He knew satan's plan, the tree was to warn us. but we screwed it up and so God found another way to save us. ( How cruel of God to give his life for the love of "us" who dont deserve it)
nadua1 2 years ago
Im sorry, but it is completely right to attempt to use our logic when deciding which, if any gods, to believe in.
You must understand the idea that setting up a test that is deadly to the participants if they should happen to fail, is plainly disgusting. What my video "God, the worst father ever" for more regarding how wrong it is to create a test for your children that will kill them if they mess up.
You cant hide behind nonsense like "gods ways are higher" - the story is clearly fucked.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
And again, if god is only offering his life to appease HIMSELF and his OWN sense of justice, because our ancestors supposedly failed a deadly test HE SET UP, and HE demands a life be taken to satisfy HIS unwavering, unmerciful and self-righteous standards of conditional forgiveness, then that IS cruel and twisted.
Btw, I highly doubt any demonstrations of gods reality to you. While they may have been good enough for you, I dont think they would be good enough for anyone commited to REAL truth.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
what is so wrong with just chosing the right path so you dont have to worry about death. the sting of death has been conquered, and now all that is left for those who chose it is eternal life.
nadua1 2 years ago
Whats so wrong is youre oversimplifying the issue, & completely ignoring GODS part in the so-called 'fall of man'. IF GOD DIDNT PUT THE TREE THERE, NO-ONE WOULD HAVE HAD TO DIE. EVER! WHY RISK KILLING YOUR CHILDREN WITH A DEADLY TREE? Would you set up a test that could KILL your child? The idea is NONSENSE!
Then again, youre probably also completely ignoring all the scientific evidence that demonstrates all living things evolved, so I guess you might as well maintain the ignorance.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
look i'm not insulting you, an ignorant person would have told you to go to hell. i'm seriously trying to understand and maybe you would too if you were trying. i believe your totally oversimplifying the issue by focusing on the wrong tree. The tree that Jesus hung from represents the cancellation of the tree of knowledge good and evil. it was a test. it would have been a cruel one if that tree were the only one in the garden.
nadua1 2 years ago
Look, you cant IGNORE the tree in the garden and just focus on the tree jesus hung on. Yes, the tree of knowledge was a test. But again, how can you not understand that the test was a disgusting, DEADLY test?
Answer me this - if you had a son or daughter, would YOU test their obedience to you with a test that could KILL them if they failed it? Answer that question DIRECTLY please.
If you answered yes, you would be considered insane and your children would be put in protective custody.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
your making it seem as if God created the test so that you would fail. This was and is a test that God has fully equipped us for, and is basically giving us the answers to. the only way we could fail is if we said Lord i choose the wrong answer despite it all. and evidently it would be your own fault not his.
nadua1 2 years ago
The option adam and eve would fail was obviously a possiblity when god created the test. If it wasnt, then there would be no point making the test. Would you create a test for your children that COULD result in their death? Even if that was a less likely outcome, would you create such a test?
Of course not. Think about it properly and you will see how wrong it is.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
The test was necessary even with the risk in order for him to be sure that we loved him FREELY. That we would chose him. He didnt say love me or die. he said love me and be aware of the rules. I cant tolerate sin and the wages of sin is death. just like satan fell anyone who sins will die. so there was only a possiblity of death if WE chose to ignore the law (which by the way is now easier to follow) becasuse of christ. but if we chose to love him freely we die to our flesh and live like christ.
nadua1 2 years ago
That is ridiculous. WHY INVOLVE DEATH IN THE TEST? Why test your childrens love with a test that will kill them?
He DID say love me or die. And HE was the one who set up the system whereby exercising 'free will' resulted in death.
And how can you accept a god who's laws are supposedly perfect and unchangeing, yet the mosaic law is now NOT perfect, and HAS changed, even though it WAS perfect? How ridiculous.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
Billions of people do believe in a God and find comfort and order in that. I love science don't get me wrong and like many people I believe science and religion can coexist. I don't belive in Allah, Vishnu and Buddha simply because I already believe in Christ and his teaching. I've had plenty of evidence of God in my life and that is why I believe in Him. Many people don't see religion as restriction but as freedom.
leakim26 2 years ago
The number or type of people who hold a false belief doesnt change the fact that the belief is false.
Like you, some great scientists believe in a god because its the god they were raised with and are used to. Does that justify their belief or make it true? Of course not.
When youre in a religion, brainwashed by it, you dont see it as a restriction. But from the outside looking in, objectively, religion needlessly controls and manipulates billions of people.
False beliefs are ALWAYS bad.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
Youre comment shows how mentally stagnant you are. You believe your beliefs and arent interested in questioning them or changing them.
How can you justify your personal beliefs when the EXACT SAME justifications you offer can be used by EVERY OTHER religion? They cant ALL be right. You have to be willing to investigate your beliefs, to question them regularly, to research and to learn.
And what evidence have you had in your life? My guess - phony miracles and emotional responses - eg, none.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
exactly, thats the point - no miracles occur for amputees or people with downs syndrome etc - the only 'miracles' that ever happen are those that could have happened without any supernatural intervention, in other words, NOT MIRACLES.
But GodsEvangilist is insane and seems to think magical miracles happen all the time. If it really did, it would be BIG news.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
Just because it's not being spoken about doesn't mean it doesn't happen.The simple reason people aren't brought back to life is merely that God doesn't will it! miracles aren't needed for amputees because man was able to use his mind which was given by God to invent devices to aid amputees..so i see tht as a miralce in that :)
leakim26 2 years ago
Thats ridiculous. If god chooses not to perform miracles for amputees simply because we can invent devices to help them (poor substitutes for having a real limb) - then why the hell would god do ANY miracles, since most of the things that DO get claimed to be miraculous, are things that we can PROPERLY fix ourselves with modern medicine etc.
Your logic is unbelievably stupid. Amputees NEED miracles more than almost anyone else.
And there is no miracle in medicine, just hard work & science.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
excellent arguement. watch this channel people its gona be big
kolista 2 years ago
There have been many, many documented miracles such as healings, in fact the hospital in my town probably has some. We have prayed for many people with cancer, tumors, heart disease etc. However there are not many people that get raise from the dead nowadays. Yet there are still a few documentations of that too. We have also seen things such as jewels that fall from heaven and the jewelers say that there cut and quality is so perfect that they cannot place a value on them, no matter there size.
GodsEvangelist1 2 years ago
Oh really? Thankyou for enlightening us all! Now we believe you!
What the hell are you smoking? Sure, you may have prayed for people with cancer, heart disease, and SOME of them may get better, but some of the ones you pray for die, & at exactly the same rate people who DONT get prayers offered for them.
And all this bullshit about jewels from heaven and resurrections? Where did you pull that from? Show me one article, paper or study about the 'magical jewels from heaven' or a resurrection.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
And the other thing you dont seem to understand is - even if something DOES happen which we have no explanation for, doesnt mean its a miracle! It means we need to study it more.
If your bullshit about perfect gems from heaven is true, then who says meteorites cant fall into the atmosphere and crystalise? As for resurrection, who says the 'dead' person wasnt actually just incorrectly pronounced dead?
Anyway, youre talking nonsense, there is no GLOBALLY accepted account of even ONE miracle.
matthewjumps 2 years ago
Are you reading a script?
Bronsini 2 years ago
@Bronsini ye i have some stuff written up on screen. Why?
matthewjumps 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Aussie Aussie Aussie!!
grubyub 2 years ago