Thanks for this informed, and articulate engagement with the culture from a Catholic perspective. I found this really encouraging. You should self this as a DVD I Like to buy it if you have for sell.
Aquinas said "The infinite regression HAS to end". This is not proof of anything. Is just an arbitrary way of ending his own argument. Same thing for the intelligibility of the universe. There is a big assumption that because we can understand it was designed.
Even if we agree to call god those things that we do not understand about our existence. How do you jump to the from that ethereal definition of god to Jesus, power of the prayer and things upon which the church makes money?
We don't "call god those things that we do not understand about our existence". We actually attribute to a beneficient and intelligent God the authorship of the exquisitely designed and balanced things that we do understand.
You have to live a long and full life (as I have) to appeciate that the teachings of Jesus make more sense in the life of humankind than has ever been heard from any person. Otherwise pick some ism, give it long enough, and watch it collapse on you...
@francisxcc Jesus might have been an exceptional person. But he was not god. That is using the same definition of Fr. Barron. Jesus is a contingency. It does not matter how it makes you feel. It is not proof that god exists or that it/she/he has a personal relationship with humans.
Yes, I suppose Jesus was just an exceptional person who even after His death continued in His exceptional ways by rising from His grave. As He Himself said of skeptics, "If I told you, you would not believe; if I asked, you would not answer. Even if the dead came to life to testify to the truth you would not believe."
Now there's a cue for you to claim that Jesus was actually a myth, not an actual historical person. And that all the witnesses of the resurrected man lied.
@francisxcc The fact that you believe in it does not make it true. You have to understand that concept.
Jesus and xtianity is the celebration that human sacrifice is the way god helps others. Is no different from any religion where human sacrifice is the center of the dogma. It does not make any difference if Jesus existed or not. What it matter is that people buy into the idea that god killed himself to make things better. Yet things are not better. Did he/she/it fail?
Either you don't know the obvious difference between human sacrifice and a compassionate, incarnated God laying down His own life (and rising again) to destroy the eternal death that mankind had brought upon itself, or you're just being cute, because you don't really have a point to make. Sorry, you owe youself a better performance if you're going to take on topics of any depth such as this.
@ Human sacrifice and the celebration of it is not obvious to me. I feel that the death of the morons flying the planes into the towers are as meaningless as the death of Jesus.
However my point was on how Fr. Barron goes from Aquinas' definition of god to a a human incarnation of it. In one paragraph he said "science cannot find god in the universe" in another one he says "Jesus is god"
Aquinas was ignorant to many scientific facts. How can his view be the reference to define god?
So you believe that the death of someone who sacrifices his life (a soldier or a fireman, for instance) to save yours is the same (or as "meaningless") as that of a suicide bomber (who's out to kill you)?
God is spirit. He chose to reveal Himself to His creation by His incarnation as man, died, rose and ascended to heaven. That's the Christian claim. Given that, you're not exactly going to find Him looking through your telescope or whatever - exactly as Fr Barron contends.
@francisxcc We are not talking the same language. I would like to ask my questions directly to Fr. Barron.
The fact that I benefit or suffer from the death of someone does not make any difference to the person who dies. The point is that they are death and they did it for a cause that is not worth doing it or by accident.
There are many ancient myths in the xtian mythology that come from ancient religions. Born from a virgin and sacrifice among many others. Myth is not reality.
@symplythebest Yes, Christian does have parallels with older religions, and so does Judaism. It better, or it couldn't possibly be true. Finding parallels does nothing to undercut truth. I'd like to know your definition of myth, because it's a word scholars have argued about, and not settled, for hundreds of years.
@symplythebest There are true myths and true-er myths. It was the first lesson I learned from the author of 'The Lord of the Rings' who spent his life studying the many myths and also categorising them. The first six books of the Old Testament, for instance, thread the myths of Israel together with the myths of the Catholicos (the wider world). Truth is found everywhere. Myths point toward realities unseen. Aristotle and Socrates talk about this in their non-Theistic philosophy; pointing toward.
Maybe this is a bit of an odd question, but you say that genesis is a religious saga, Daniel is an apocalypse etc. What would you say, in those terms, are the rest of the books of the bible?
@Operaandchant90 Psalms are poetry (and also they are the Temple's prayer book). Proverbs was intended to be memorized sayings on how to live and conduct one's life. Leviticus and parts of Exodus are the code of law. On into the New Testament, the epistles can be seen as essays discussing the faith.
My Parish is watching Jeff Cavin's Bible Timeline series, and we just got to Joshua. He was giving some details about the Canaanite culture: ritual prostitution and orgies, sacrificing infants. Really puts the "glories" of modernism into perspective. I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in a sex-obsessed culture that kills its babies. Put the ban on modernism, not literally, but spiritually. Test it by fire, and offer all that survives...all that's good... to God!
Same arrogance, same half-baked thinking, same mistakes, same egoistic self-pandering, over and over again - sad epoch after sad epoch.
This time around though, there isn't going to come a Redeemer.
This time around there'll only be a Just Judge, before Whom all transgressors will be paralysed and dumb struck. No more cute and ingenious platitudes to justify wrongdoing.
Those who have ears are hearing. The rest go merrily, suicidally, their own way.
The truth can't be argued with. You have shown this over and over again One common "theory" modern science has for the creation of the universe is that "it all came from an infinitely small amount of matter @ >infinte density< (for eternity) that "somehow" exploded into the entire universe." You have shown the logic and "Logos" in everything we see. We live in a small corner and only see a fraction of the universe, yet "modern science" spreads this lunacy as fact. Anything to deny God. Mercy.
Fr. Barron you are of my Spiritual hero's .. to be honest with you Catholicism gave me the power to be open on science and accept it without fear, it even took me to another level in my relationship to God and my understanding of him .
I believe many people are fearing science because they read the bible with disconnection from the tradition that the church have to interrupt it correctly
My heart leapt when you spoke of the importance of biblical interpreters' sensitivity to poetry, drama, and fiction. Science can not explain what beauty is, or why it exists. I hope we as a generation can lose the interpretation that beauty is frivolous or a distraction of God, but rather it is a creation of God and why to come to know Him and His Love for us.
Father Barron - You've done a wonderful job here. The faithful are in desperate need of this type of preaching. I have one suggestion though FAther. When you speak of the Bible I suggest that you explain the dynamics of truth and literal accuracy. I think when most people hear you say that the Bible contains fiction and poetry they immediately assume an absense of truth. Of course this is not so. Is it any suprise that the Bible reveals truth in all ways perceivable by the human mind?
Thanks for this informed, and articulate engagement with the culture from a Catholic perspective. I found this really encouraging. You should self this as a DVD I Like to buy it if you have for sell.
NiallMcNally 1 month ago
Aquinas said "The infinite regression HAS to end". This is not proof of anything. Is just an arbitrary way of ending his own argument. Same thing for the intelligibility of the universe. There is a big assumption that because we can understand it was designed.
Even if we agree to call god those things that we do not understand about our existence. How do you jump to the from that ethereal definition of god to Jesus, power of the prayer and things upon which the church makes money?
symplythebest 3 months ago
@symplythebest
We don't "call god those things that we do not understand about our existence". We actually attribute to a beneficient and intelligent God the authorship of the exquisitely designed and balanced things that we do understand.
You have to live a long and full life (as I have) to appeciate that the teachings of Jesus make more sense in the life of humankind than has ever been heard from any person. Otherwise pick some ism, give it long enough, and watch it collapse on you...
francisxcc 3 months ago
@francisxcc Jesus might have been an exceptional person. But he was not god. That is using the same definition of Fr. Barron. Jesus is a contingency. It does not matter how it makes you feel. It is not proof that god exists or that it/she/he has a personal relationship with humans.
symplythebest 3 months ago
@symplythebest
Yes, I suppose Jesus was just an exceptional person who even after His death continued in His exceptional ways by rising from His grave. As He Himself said of skeptics, "If I told you, you would not believe; if I asked, you would not answer. Even if the dead came to life to testify to the truth you would not believe."
Now there's a cue for you to claim that Jesus was actually a myth, not an actual historical person. And that all the witnesses of the resurrected man lied.
francisxcc 3 months ago
@francisxcc The fact that you believe in it does not make it true. You have to understand that concept.
Jesus and xtianity is the celebration that human sacrifice is the way god helps others. Is no different from any religion where human sacrifice is the center of the dogma. It does not make any difference if Jesus existed or not. What it matter is that people buy into the idea that god killed himself to make things better. Yet things are not better. Did he/she/it fail?
symplythebest 3 months ago
@symplythebest
Either you don't know the obvious difference between human sacrifice and a compassionate, incarnated God laying down His own life (and rising again) to destroy the eternal death that mankind had brought upon itself, or you're just being cute, because you don't really have a point to make. Sorry, you owe youself a better performance if you're going to take on topics of any depth such as this.
francisxcc 3 months ago
@ Human sacrifice and the celebration of it is not obvious to me. I feel that the death of the morons flying the planes into the towers are as meaningless as the death of Jesus.
However my point was on how Fr. Barron goes from Aquinas' definition of god to a a human incarnation of it. In one paragraph he said "science cannot find god in the universe" in another one he says "Jesus is god"
Aquinas was ignorant to many scientific facts. How can his view be the reference to define god?
symplythebest 3 months ago
@symplythebest
So you believe that the death of someone who sacrifices his life (a soldier or a fireman, for instance) to save yours is the same (or as "meaningless") as that of a suicide bomber (who's out to kill you)?
God is spirit. He chose to reveal Himself to His creation by His incarnation as man, died, rose and ascended to heaven. That's the Christian claim. Given that, you're not exactly going to find Him looking through your telescope or whatever - exactly as Fr Barron contends.
francisxcc 3 months ago
@francisxcc We are not talking the same language. I would like to ask my questions directly to Fr. Barron.
The fact that I benefit or suffer from the death of someone does not make any difference to the person who dies. The point is that they are death and they did it for a cause that is not worth doing it or by accident.
There are many ancient myths in the xtian mythology that come from ancient religions. Born from a virgin and sacrifice among many others. Myth is not reality.
symplythebest 3 months ago
@symplythebest
You can address questions to Fr Barron on his channel, which is "wordonfirevideo".
francisxcc 3 months ago
@symplythebest Yes, Christian does have parallels with older religions, and so does Judaism. It better, or it couldn't possibly be true. Finding parallels does nothing to undercut truth. I'd like to know your definition of myth, because it's a word scholars have argued about, and not settled, for hundreds of years.
BoethianAcolyte 3 months ago
@symplythebest There are true myths and true-er myths. It was the first lesson I learned from the author of 'The Lord of the Rings' who spent his life studying the many myths and also categorising them. The first six books of the Old Testament, for instance, thread the myths of Israel together with the myths of the Catholicos (the wider world). Truth is found everywhere. Myths point toward realities unseen. Aristotle and Socrates talk about this in their non-Theistic philosophy; pointing toward.
ammazzamoro 5 days ago
man, I'm so glad he talked about the great spaguetti monster, my athist friend drives me crazy with that one!
sopinion1 3 months ago
@sopinion1
"I think, therefore I'm not an atheist!"
:)
francisxcc 3 months ago
Maybe this is a bit of an odd question, but you say that genesis is a religious saga, Daniel is an apocalypse etc. What would you say, in those terms, are the rest of the books of the bible?
Pax
Operaandchant90 3 months ago
@Operaandchant90 Psalms are poetry (and also they are the Temple's prayer book). Proverbs was intended to be memorized sayings on how to live and conduct one's life. Leviticus and parts of Exodus are the code of law. On into the New Testament, the epistles can be seen as essays discussing the faith.
sulkow82 3 months ago
My Parish is watching Jeff Cavin's Bible Timeline series, and we just got to Joshua. He was giving some details about the Canaanite culture: ritual prostitution and orgies, sacrificing infants. Really puts the "glories" of modernism into perspective. I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in a sex-obsessed culture that kills its babies. Put the ban on modernism, not literally, but spiritually. Test it by fire, and offer all that survives...all that's good... to God!
GruntLogic 3 months ago
@GruntLogic
History repeats itself.
Same arrogance, same half-baked thinking, same mistakes, same egoistic self-pandering, over and over again - sad epoch after sad epoch.
This time around though, there isn't going to come a Redeemer.
This time around there'll only be a Just Judge, before Whom all transgressors will be paralysed and dumb struck. No more cute and ingenious platitudes to justify wrongdoing.
Those who have ears are hearing. The rest go merrily, suicidally, their own way.
francisxcc 3 months ago
The truth can't be argued with. You have shown this over and over again One common "theory" modern science has for the creation of the universe is that "it all came from an infinitely small amount of matter @ >infinte density< (for eternity) that "somehow" exploded into the entire universe." You have shown the logic and "Logos" in everything we see. We live in a small corner and only see a fraction of the universe, yet "modern science" spreads this lunacy as fact. Anything to deny God. Mercy.
bheadh 3 months ago
Fr. Barron you are of my Spiritual hero's .. to be honest with you Catholicism gave me the power to be open on science and accept it without fear, it even took me to another level in my relationship to God and my understanding of him .
I believe many people are fearing science because they read the bible with disconnection from the tradition that the church have to interrupt it correctly
newtochrist 6 months ago in playlist newtochrist's Favorited Videos 5
My heart leapt when you spoke of the importance of biblical interpreters' sensitivity to poetry, drama, and fiction. Science can not explain what beauty is, or why it exists. I hope we as a generation can lose the interpretation that beauty is frivolous or a distraction of God, but rather it is a creation of God and why to come to know Him and His Love for us.
sdunlevy1 6 months ago 7
@sdunlevy1
Amen!
francisxcc 6 months ago
Father Barron - You've done a wonderful job here. The faithful are in desperate need of this type of preaching. I have one suggestion though FAther. When you speak of the Bible I suggest that you explain the dynamics of truth and literal accuracy. I think when most people hear you say that the Bible contains fiction and poetry they immediately assume an absense of truth. Of course this is not so. Is it any suprise that the Bible reveals truth in all ways perceivable by the human mind?
oldschoolsaint 6 months ago
As a former atheist, I'm so thankful for men like Fr.Barron!!
megaead69 9 months ago 24
Fr. Barron...what can I say. God Bless him. The guy is amazing and I hope more and more people discover him.
equitemcroce 9 months ago 5
Simply amazing...God bless you Fr. Barron....we need an army like you!!!!!
ivan99val 9 months ago 4
Such a brilliant train of thoughts!
FIDESetRATIOihtys 9 months ago 3
Great!
kjempevanskelig 10 months ago
Just excelent
soymartinrodri 10 months ago 3
profound
XSC3 11 months ago