Ice Climber's Uber Chaingrab(Hylian)

[Devandevande]

An easy IC Combo is Having Popo Do Downthrow, Then time it so Nana Does Side B, And your opponent wont be able to move, giving Popo a chance to grab again. then Continue on with the Chaingrabbing gayness.

[Kyronexx]

lol we were playing tonight learned some stuff. hmm looks im sure hes gunna win the tourney tomorrow :3

[Riickable]

Hylian. Too good. <3

[greenowns18]

This is a b-throw with popo, grab with nana (which is VERY hard), d-throw with nana, grab with popo and it repeats

[hyuugamoto]

What you just described is the EASIEST and most widely used infininte chaingrab on medium sized characters. The only thing remotely impressive about this video is its date (a month after Brawl came out).

Wanna know what's actually hard? Doing it with the climbers in reverse roles, i.e. Nana Bthrow into Popo Dthrow.

[hdrevolution123]

some1 please tell me how to do this!

[shabtulation]

i cant do infinite but when theyre 0 grab them and with control stick

do down and up than left and a than repeat

it works for me til 58 dmage but thats it

[UchihaSurvivor360]

How do you make nana turn like that . I keep trying and I can't do it, she turns back to popo when I throw. Someone help!

[nanaiss3xy]

Nana's hotness breaks brawl!

[Dorliminator]

Omg... Nice

[thebirdislost54]

very good!

[Jeimusn]

The ONLY thing that actually makes Brawl a "terrible competitive game" is tripping, which can be circumvented by:

A.) Making a rule that replays matches won by random tripping, 1-stock would work best.

B.) Hack, but I advise against it.

About Ice Climbers and Dedede, why is fd legal?!!?! Bowser can't beat Dedede without platforms, that's broken by definition. In Melee, Falco can just spam his darn laser and then infinite Bowser just by jabbing, DI doesn't work well enough.

[fraudster111]

stfu only newbs for those petty tricks

[clayvision]

that an l canceling

[burnfireburn]

I like the sounds they make.

So cute...yet so angry.

Nana is hot btw.

[jjjamie12]

Hylian is my hero in ssb he's the best

[carrmig]

is dat sum MM music i hear? :D

[Vwashk]

WW actually.

[carrmig]

Aw, you're right. xP Its style made me immediately think of MM, but now I realize it's from WW. Thanks.

[PhoeniXPimP411]

I neva used the Ice Climbers... So, flame me all u want.. How do u control Nana during the chain grab.

[Noobdemon]

I JUST ATE A WHOLE FUCKING CHEESECAKE

[lefthooknaruto2034]

Cold blooded Ice Climbers...

[skullfyre7]

What are you guys on about???

I thought i was good without having to know about tiers. I mean, im no american at the thing, but im something like 28th best in australia on melee.

[Dovieandi23]

Why exactly does the D-throw re-grab work? Is it a really hard timing, or does it have something to do with doing it right after the b-throw re-grab?

[RizardoLawless942]

he's good

[bobaryanmage]

This is easy as hell to learn

grow some balls and actually train u bunch of non wavedashers

props on mega de sync action

[gamefreaker00nick]

HOLY ******* *** CRACKERS

[orangevertigo]

that was cool...but dont you have to "de-synch" them or something?

[SSBTham]

cool^^

[theitalianplumber]

wow that was sick

[MalcolmLcz]

Falcon i easy to use and is still deadly as fuck. And you can do this on people i did it to my friends who aren't n00bs and they play pretty much every chance they get since the N64 days.

[TeeKayDee]

This combo seems too long and too hard to be practical.

No matter how much trash Brawl haters type, you aren't going to make people stop playing brawl.

[Nintemagic]

it is, its so complicated and the timing changes, he probably had to do this 500x before he got it right

[starfox15]

wow this is so gay i dnt care how much skill it takes i mite use these 2 fags juss to piss ppl off

[exoskelett]

i love ice climbers :)

i'm using a n00b strat:

smashing up to 40%, then attract the emeny to the edge, grab and meteor :D

works with every cpu XD

[Zryuken]

There is NO WAY you could pull this off against someone who is actually fighting back. 9_9

This is like a grade school "lol look wut I can do" technique.

[kynelius]

ive done it to more htan one of my frinends. one just never lets me grab because he knows the consequences. it is suprisingly easy in a real fight. its harder than a cpu but yeah, definately not a look what i can do technique, although it doubles as that

[AsianFlavaFlav]

I dair you to phale moar.

[AKHomicide]

lol, brawl ftl

[xzbiytezx]

go hylian

[TheManaLord]

brawl sucks ROFL

[Xanskar]

^^^

[Frozzn4]

this technic will be banned!!!!!!

[jambostringo]

Shit im pissed. The game got a decreased hitsun and nobody sat and thought things through at HAL . Thing is, characters who depend on comboing to be succesful (like captain falcon) are now completely buttfucked.

[IHFilms]

how in the...

I'm already godly with IC's, this technique will make me UNSTOPPABLE

[AsianPride228]

hes a monster...

[Jamnt0ast]

You people do realize that the ice climbers have a REALLY short grab, and if you separate them with any attack that has knockback they are useless right? The ice climbers are far from top tier. Just don't get grabbed.

[BillyRVaughan]

Pfeh, another day, another chain throw. Melee was never this broken.

[1337is1337]

Wavedashing.

[jambostringo]

sakurai's an asshole, he destroyed captain falcon and left ic's with their infinite chain grab.

Good job idiot.

[ATVSmash]

Dude, honestly, why the fuck is jambostringo's post -1'd? It's true. Captain Falcon is garbage in Brawl, and ICs get a retarded chaingrab, while this shit's supposed to be balanced. I'm fucking sick of you Brawlfaggots ignoring everything negative about Brawl and -1ing it before actually thinking about how it might actually be RIGHT.

[inuyashad]

lol

[AMP3D23]

Lol, I know! C. Falcon was the best in melee, now they made him SUCK in Brawl.

[killik119]

You got -1ed. He's not garbage, he's just not as easy to gimp or rack up combos with. He was pretty cheap with his Falcon knee, know there's more skill needed to own with him.

[TeeKayDee]

Wrong. Falcon's possibly the worst character in the game.

[MuraRengan]

I agree with ATVSmash. He's a good guy.

[shinkudrygun]

i just threw up in my mouth a little bit

[Ravingrabbidsfan]

Oh my god.

GET TO DA CHOPPA!!!!

[ppinillas]

OH MY... *shocked* And i thought camping was gay... lets ban that *writes "banned" on the video

[WindOwl]

Isn't Brawl awesome? The only combos are chaingrabs!

[qwasdninja]

This is funny 'cause its true :]

[KosukeKGA]

Too good and too true.

[MEWUVSHADOW]

Too bad and too false. This is funny 'cause its false :] The only combos aren't chaingrabs!

[KosukeKGA]

HUUUUUURRRRRRR YOU ARE A TOOL

[MEWUVSHADOW]

I AM A TOY

[jambostringo]

there ARE combos in brawl, but only SOME characters can do them.

[KosukeKGA]

Which is why Melee is better.

[TeeKayDee]

Melee's about having great control over your character, edgeguarding and avoiding comboes. Brawl's about having good spacing, racking up percentage and saving your KO moves for KOing. To me, both games are great. Melee though, has the dissadvantage that it left zero chance for new players. They could NEVER catch up.

[shadowzero6]

Well, I have to disagree a bit with that last part there.

As I have gone through this process myself, learning all the techniques is just the beginning. The implementation of said techniques is what makes good players what they are. Melee has always been about thinking, planning ahead, laying out a strategy. (That's why I like it)

While I admit learning all the techs takes a long while to do them consistently, any new player has the chance to be good if they think the right way, per se.

[bowserknight]

Yeah it's like with my two cousins, they often visit me and then we play SSBM (SSBB isn't out yet in Europe). They know many techniques but all they do is run to the enemy and attack it. They could be so good if they'd wait for the right moment, avoid attacks etc.

[DarthYoda27]

What TeeKayDee is saying is actually a lot like a lot of Nintendo online games. I'm not saying I hate them at all, I'm just saying when you stop playing them, all of the sudden everyone is better than you even when you were really good at the start and it's hard to catch up...

[jkshoujk]

Meh, there's some who are fast learners. Mango caught up to M2K, when he joined in the last year or so. It just depends on the person really.

I hate Brawl too, but no one has to whine about either game (anyone wanna stop the war and just move the fuck on?).

I absolutely hate it when people go on to videos just to start one of these conversations because it gets no one anywhere and it ruins the entertainment for those who enjoy it.

[Nintemagic]

melee sucked, you had to be fox/falco/marth to win anything, brawl kicks the shit out of melee

[smavey]

True that

[halfdragonchad]

Hardly true.

[HeroRaven]

^

Aniki, a link player, beat ken, the king of smash (without wavedashing at that)

lurk moar, faggot

[popertop]

that was a friendly.

lurk moar.

[MissEek]

and he also plays link so wavedashing excessively wont help him at all.

[HeroRaven]

I'm pretty sure aniki doesn't l-cancel either but I'm not too certain..

[BlueFoxXT]

Aniki L-cancels. You have to L-cancel in competitive play, but you don't -have- to wavedash. It just helps. But Link doesn't need to, his is slow and short.

[TheFleeingPhoenix]

@halfdragonchad Or truly hard?

[Mainac666]

is it just me...or do i notice stupidity in ur head?

[Mainac666]

this is for Nintemagic people lol

[BlueFoxXT]

as opposed to Brawl, where you have to be Snake, MK, or D3. Right.

[Nintemagic]

no? you can easily win with anyone on the roster, those are just the ones that have a sightly higher win %, in melee fox won like 80% of the time >_>, 70% of the roster was completely useless

in brawl EVERYONE has counters, therefore no one can be the best, eventually since counters have counters have counters... well u get it

everyone on the roster counters at least 5-15 characters

where as in melee, no one countered anyone, except maybe jigs

[BlueFoxXT]

Mario, Luigi, DK, Cpt Falcon, Samus, Ice Climbers, hell there's even some good Ganons. So don't act like Brawl is any more balanced than Melee, just because it's easier to play.

[Nintemagic]

dude you just mentioned about 30% of the characters, proving my point

its not really easier to play, not by much if at all, it has about the same amount of button presses

in fact melee is a LOT easier to play, all marth needs to be good is Fair, Fsmash and upB >_>

in brawl you need to think of match up counters, spacing, defense, combos, stale move negation, stage advantages

instead of just laser spamming with falco or Fair spamming with marth

not just me... everyone thinks brawl = balanced

[Nintemagic]

i mean if we could, who would win? snake or melee fox? dude melee fox would kick the shyyt out of snake

stale move negation, infinite dodging, less hit stun, no uber glitches to make it unbalanced

yeah i mean who hell thinks melee is more balanced? i can beat anyone with anyone on the roster, in melee beating marth with the low tiers was physically impossible

in brawl the tiers are so freaking close together that all i can see is med/high tiers, i cant see anyone so bad/good for low/god

[BlueFoxXT]

(cont)

Brawl is NOT balanced, not even close. Snake is top tier, MK and Dedede are closing in on that, and within a week of release an infinite was found with almost every character. DDD can infinite chaingrab 5 characters standing -still-, basically wiping off that many characters from his matchup sheet. Fox was the best character in Melee, but Snake is probably going to end up like that in Brawl. End-season Melee, a Jigglypuff player (Mango) defeated m2k (best fox player in the world)

[Nintemagic]

you're ignoring the games logic, the infinite air dodging made each character THAT much better, its like... each character was 1-10 pts, and IADing gave them all 50 pts

thus making the gap tiny

the best is snake, the worst 1on1 is ganon(better ffa guy), however i can easily beat pro snakes i meet online with ganon, but consider that from melee

pichu>marth? never, impossible unless other guy sucks

the roster is either mid/high tier

no one is god/bottom/low the tiers are WAY too small

[BlueFoxXT]

Pro's don't really play online, and even if they do, the smash community as a whole doesn't think online matches mean sh*t. I agree, I've sandbagged on almost every online match I've done. The lag and lack of player presence just makes it that less interesting. Go have a match with DSF's Snake offline.

Infinite air dodging made the game easier, not better. Only a newbie would think otherwise. Lacking the need for skilled DI and creative escapes is anything but improvement.

[BlueFoxXT]

One more thing, I only mentioned the more popular characters to add to your list. There's a skilled player on YouTube for almost every character. Taj and Kaito's Mewtwos. Luke and Gimpyfish's Bowsers. Neo/Masashi's Roys. Chu Dat's Y. Link and Pikachu. Bob$ and S-Royal's Docs. Bombsoldier's G&W. And I suppose you can say t!mmy and t0mmy handle Pichu and Kirby. Fumi's Yoshi. The only character unmentioned is Ness, who would be a good character if not for his terrible Up+B.

[Nintemagic]

and? dude in online play for the SBR, AiB, BC sites, i see EVERY character being used, not just fox/falco/marth like melee

almost no one mains mk or snake, only 1 guy mains d3

do you know why? because every character sucks vs half the roster, they ALL have counters, the so called bad characters even counter the good ones, its very odd, the counters are somewhat random

tiers exist so very little in brawl, infinite dodging, everyone has counters!

dsf: brawls balc is rock, paper, scissors

[27CDruid]

I dunno. Metaknight pretty much has no counter except perhaps DK. DK is a counter at a stretch really.

He's overpowered but not overpowered enough to be banned.

[clayvision]

i agree

ice climbers are just plain broken imo

[dansflamable]

Broken is such an ignorant phrase. While I agree they are quite "effective" I will say they are broken when I see this done in a tourney against a human with some skill, not mindless AI.

[dragonmaster951753]

and thats where you are wrong, what you just saw (minus him slipping up at first) was an impossible to escape chain grab, nothing you do could have gotten you out of that, you could have been hitting every button but it would mean nothing seeing how your damage would have been to high, Ice climbers are broken one grab equals a lose of a stock if the player knows what they are doing

[LavaEdge324]

The problem here is, if the ICs were truly broken, they'd be winning the most tournaments, not Metaknight. Last I checked, they're only around R9 in tournament standings... Still high rank wise, but nothing incredible.

No, the ICs aren't broken. The CG Infinite is a lost stock, yes, but there's also the factor of the IC's abysmal grab range. To quote you, if the player knows what they are doing, they'll be spacing for their lives versus the ICs and won't be within grab range most of the time.

[dragonmaster951753]

most people haven't mastered this with the ice climbers i only know one person who is close to mastering this, well he actually did zero to death... but a good IC should know how to space the fight and not just go for grabs... its very obvious, and a lost stock from one grab is serious, Metaknight is good simply because you don't need to practice that much, but i see ICs more as a threat than metaknight anyday from personal experience

[LavaEdge324]

The fact that most people haven't mastered this is moot. When speaking of metagame play, you assume that the players (and the degree of skill to which they use their characters) are at the top level and have thus mastered everything necessary to using the character at peak play. In which case, an IC chaingrab would be no problem to pull off once initiated.

That being said, I stick to my original point: If they are broken, why have they not surpassed R9 (or really, past R10 until recently)?

[dragonmaster951753]

recently i heard of the new tier list, and i was disappointed to hear that all the characters on the list got their list because people voted... they didn't take character information, or tournament results they voted on it. The tier list is very biased. People find Metaknight as the most annoying followed by snake and from there its just people's opinion, and since there are not that many ice climbers out there they obviously won't get that much credit and the few that do play don't inifite CG

[LavaEdge324]

But I never referenced the Tier List that the SBR made, which obviously has some sort of human bias to it (because let's face it, nearly everything does >_>). I only referenced the tournament listings, which is entirely a data compilation.

The infinite in itself is horrendously overpowered; however, the ICs are not, because again, of their horrible grab range.

[dragonmaster951753]

well put i have to say nice to see someone knows their stuff... whats your online tag name i may have heard of you before

[LavaEdge324]

Eh I'm not really well-known at all. It's NeonCrusader though, CRSDR in-game.

[Gaspacho79]

This, and you have to carry a retarded nana around to do so.

[MisterG694]

i agree with you. Also, arent the chaingrabs somewhat restricted in tournaments?

[Bgimmy360]

you can only chain grab three times with three following grabs, but theres a way over it and still make it infinite.

[Qmaster7]

nope

[Ezpioipze]

Your grabs are limited but if you dont feel you can beat ice climbers learn how to spam grenades with snakes

[Vwashk]

@MisterG694 No they aren't restricted at all.

Don't get grabbed and you won't get raped.

[ce62293]

^ win

[Cass731]

@Vwashk So true... people whine over crazy brawl strategies and want them banned, but all you gotta do is learn how to avoid it and you're fine.

[Nintemagic]

no, yoshi rapes meta, he can cg him then do an impossible to miss sliding upsmash @ the end

yoshi, dk, diddy, falco counter him

oh & he sux at FFAs

[27CDruid]

Yoshi is so poor that despite having many counter moves against meta he is still only a 50:50.

DK is to easily gimped.

If you think diddys forward tilt counts as a counter to tornado then i disagree. he is a neutral at the very best.

Falco counters the tornado but his recovery is so easily gimped that theres no way you can count him as a counter.

[dragonmaster951753]

DK has reach over metaknight that means a lot seeing how if you know the approach you can always stop it, plus DK can kill him at like 50, diddy can keep throwing bananas and playing smart about it, falco can laser his approach and chaingrab him to about 30 percent plus kill quite nicely with a spike, i don't see how you think they are not counters, plus toon link makes a good counter with his projectiles meta is good but not impossible to beat

[SolidSnakeRules]

you forgot Snake whose range and projectiles can destroy MK especially with that U tilt, Bowser who can CG MK potentially to like 70% which is kill range for bowser vs mk, Yoshi who has grab release on MK and kills easy with uair, Link is also good against MK with superior range and a bunch of projectiles

[SolidSnakeRules]

lol that doesn't make yoshi poor, MK is just op..plus Yoshi's grab goes through nado which leads to grab release games and an easy kill, and dragonic egg lay destroys any part of MK's ground game.

[ComputerJA]

Totally agree with you.

I believe Snake is also a good counter against Metaknight. I've played a few good MK and I've done pretty well. The good this is that Snake is hard to KO and Snake KO's at low percentages.

[HeroRaven]

wrong

go play competitive melee thx

[BlueFoxXT]

ROFL okay one, I mentioned "30%" more than you mentioned previously, and if that's all you do with Marth in melee, you will never win. In fact, in Melee, usmash is one of his worst attacks.

Melee has several technical aspects that require time and practice; wavedashing, L cancelling, SHFFL, SHL, etc. Brawl has...um...

...

In Melee, you have a lot more to think about in terms of match-ups than in Brawl. You can't even combo in Brawl, so how does that involve any skill? ---

[Nintemagic]

wavedashing and Lcanceling take no skill at all if you havent noticed, wow 1 button press everytime you land makes you leet!

brawl DOES take more skill, it actually involves thought instead of random spam

stale move negation, more defined auto cancel timing(new Lcancel), spacing, defense, timing, reverse arials, better gimp timing, pivot grabbing, dash attack canceling, pivot attacking, spam doesnt work in brawl because staleing kills it, and the rest of melee techs are in brawl

[BlueFoxXT]

About 90% of that is in Melee. You're knocking competitive Melee when you weren't a part of it. L Cancelling and wavedashing don't take skill, no. But it takes skill to use in combat and use it effectively. While Melee techs don't necessarily take that much skill, Brawl takes far less. YOu can't DI out of chaingrabs, making them -that- much easier to do, and I mastered DA-cancelling in less than five minutes, while all the basic advanced techs in Melee took far longer. Pivot grabbing too.

[fraudster111]

i like you (no homo)

[27CDruid]

Oh and im sorry to tell you but you CAN combo in Brawl BlueFoxXT...

[crizthakidd]

wooot 2,000 new players just start maining IC now

[ChromePirate]

EAT THAT SAKURAI!

[MEWUVSHADOW]

EAT THAT YOU!

[matthewmilad]

Fuking Ice Climbers... not again... and this time no one else is broken enough to stop make this even negligible...

[matthewmilad]

*make

not stop make sorry

[gibax]

yay ice climbers are broken again!

[Artanisix]

Yawnnn. Standard chain grab.

[nubfail]

HOW DO YOU DO THAT

[metaXzero]

This further proves Sakurai fails at balance!! Ruins everything else, but leaves this alone.

"Everyone wins" he says...

[MEWUVSHADOW]

This further proves Sakurai rocks at balance!! Improves everything else, but leaves this alone.

"Everyone loses" he says...

[TrucidOL8R]

lol What a great game.

[Speedsk8er]

lol Good luck getting the grab. Our approach is ass and we honestly can't camp that well.

[JFLikesPie]

Are you kidding? Approaching with ice block and alternating freeze is very hard to get around. Not to mention they can just walk up and shield. You grab them? Guess what, there's two, you get hit. You attack, you get grabbed. You have to play stupid careful vs ICs.

[AquadiustheHedgehog]

D3's CG is nothing compared to this one. D3 can do it forever against a wall, and can do it off the edge, but this is infinite without the need of a wall.

CGs are going to HAVE to be banned now, because ICs have an advantage over everyone else, regardless of the stage.

[Stowick]

Don't get grabbed.

[AquadiustheHedgehog]

That's like saying that every stage is perfectly fair because you can just not get hit by the hazards. True, on a lot of them it's easy, but to say that is idiotic. Things happen, and grabs aren't hard to execute.

I've heard this kind of reasoning so many times and it's the most idiotic reasoning in the world...

[FishyFist]

0.o *finds a new game to play*

[RyanJRA64Abella]

LOL. You invented this, Hylian? Stop trying to be like me =).

[Hylian88]

I did actually. The chaingrab you were doing at trashday is different, and I already knew about that before trashday. I was showing sethlon it the night before trashday. Also, what I found, was the way to bthrow with nana to popo without pivoting. You just do the normal popo bthrow to nana.

[tangeoats11]

he didnt invent jackshit. why do you put your name on a simple ic chaingrab?

this isnt even descriptive, its just backthrow to fthrow alt grabs, how is that new? its not

[center425]

Did you watch it? He doesn't alt grab, he does everything without having to pivot, and its faster :/

[RyanJRA64Abella]

Everyone shut up. Hylian did discover this on his own. But, I was doing it at Trashday, you may not have noticed it, but I showed it to Felix a very long time ago. Hylian did discover this on his own, though. I hate reading stupid comments, by the way. So if you think you have something to say, think to yourself, "Am I a fucking idiot, though?"

Good to see you are finding out shit, Hylian. =).

[Hylian88]

Thanks man. And yeah, you saw you were doing another variation of this where you bthrow first instead of dthrow at trashday. I was very impressed you could do it so well XD.

[RyanJRA64Abella]

Lol. I was really irritated with people when I wrote my comment. Keep findin' out shit =D.

[Ykoahi]

i hate ice climbers

[cajunslash]

*sigh*

I hate you so much Ice Climbers...

[MysticKenji]

Owned.

Nice find, Hylian.

[scibbybombop]

GAME BREAKING

[jaraha]

That looks very hard to time.

[ILessthan3]

HYPER GRAB!!!!

[Dogysamich]

XD Fuck it, somebody call in Magneto.

[leafslash]

Oh man, and I thought D3's was cheap.

[Awesomeasusual]

I hate to say it, but I already knew about this. To be honest, it was very obvious this was possible from the snowstorm IC tech video where he is demonstrating the alternating grab combo. It doesn't say infinite there, but it is infinite (or at least very nearly). This is actually the same thing, just turning the grab around a lot.

[Hylian88]

It's actually not the same thing, because I am bthrowing with nana to popo without pivoting. In voids videos he pivots to grab them. I found a way to remove that step and came up with this. You can really learn any series of ALT throws though. This one is just unique because of the nana bthrow without pivot.

[MechaSoul]

this is different from the replay I got.

Still cool though.

[kernelcolonel]

Alright, I'm convinced, go Ice Climbers.

I'll still never take that much time to develop my wobble skills though.

Whee

[faceurhell]

We're all screwed now. Ice Climbers are top tier now.

[Hylian88]

:). Thanks for putting this up.

[kazenoz]

No problem man =P

[koopatroop123]

how did he do that?

[hotfoteacha27]

....wow talk about pwned