@ChristianEastern Hi.............it varies from LCMS congregation. Pastoral decisions have to be made. Having said that..........we are not in Fellowship with either the ELCA or the WELS..............however, there is a dfiference......the LCMS broke relationships with the ELCA whereas the WELS broke relationship with the LCMS....the LCMS and WELS are much closer doctrinally than with the ELCA. Does this help?
ok, in the first video I watched of this guy I thought he was ELCA, he seems more confessional Lutheran in this video and the one on the rapture. I was confused when he disagreed with the creed on Jesus being a judge.
Cont.--. Thank you, pastor for your comments, but I’m off youtube over Great Lent (starts tomorrow after vespers for us). If you respond, I am not ignoring your comment,--I hope that you too have a joyful Lent and Pascha.
Cont.--I don't understand this legalistic and minimalist view of doing only what is required. Actually, I would argue that in protesting against the Catholic church. Protestants have thrown out much that in fact is required. I have no interest in defending R.C., but I do believe that they preserve more fullness of the faith than Protestants, although I understand why Luther felt spiritually betrayed by the R.C.
cont. ...Protestantism is very selective in its beliefs and practices. How can you justify a belief or practice historically and then turn around and deny the crucial nature of Holy Tradition passed down to us by the Apostles and the Church Fathers?
@ukerkater Hi..I used tradition/history as a SECONDARY support for closed communion..........closed communion is based on SCRIPTURE and supported by tranditon/history....that's Lutheranism....thanks for your comment!
@nschaub But Holy Tradition precedes the compilation of the 27 book canon of the New Testatment. The Church Fathers determined the value of inspiration of texts based on their support of Holy Tradition--there is no conflict. Why are Scripture and Holy Tradition not complementary in your view?...
@ukerkater HI.........You cannot bind a person's conscience with any tradition that cannot be found in Scripture..........note how I said that: you cannot BIND a person's conscience with something unless it is required in SCRIPTURE........otherwise, human opinion and "traditions of men" start to rule in the Church.............Lutherans value traditions that are not CONTRARY to Scripture........thanks again for your comments......
@nschaub Holy Tradition (distinct from manmade tradition) is the life of the Church before Scripture is given to us by the Church, through the action of the Holy Spirit. Holy Tradition is referred to in scripture as the oral Tradition of the Church which preceded the written text. Holy Tradition is never contrary to Scripture. It encapsulates the fullness of the teachings and practices of the Early (Orthodox--"correct teaching") Church.
By referring to history, you are actually pointing to Holy Tradition. Orthodoxy holds Holy Tradition, that is the faith of the Holy Fathers in very high regard...not only in terms of closed communion, the mystery of the Holy Eucharist,...but also in praising (blessing) the Theotokos, the saints
@OneFaithMinistries Hi.......you're not serious. Lutherans believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world and that we are justified by grace though faith in Jesus. Do you reject that?
@nschaub They also teach Baptism is necessary for salvation and that unbaptized infants could perish. They also teach the physical presence of Christ in communion, which is far beyond heresy.
@OneFaithMinistries Hi...........well, that's what I thought....You don't think the EVERYTHING taught by Lutherans is hersey....just some things.........fair enough...
@OneFaithMinistries HI..........I see...and what is it about Lutheranism (and you know there are conservative Lutheans) which makes it not Christian. I would certainly like to know that...........
@nschaub I am speaking of the Conservative Lutherans. You should know that liberals are not Christians no matter what denomination they are in. Lutheranism is nothing more than diet Catholicism. That is why it is not Christian. Martin Luther held too many Catholic doctrines; Lutherans are almost a road back to Catholicism. When i say it is not Christian, I mean the system as a while. Lutheranism is not Christian.
@OneFaithMinistries Hi.wow........you certainly dismiss justificaiton by grace thorugh faith as if it's not very important.........that's the heart of Christianity.......how we are saved. What do Lutherans "add" that is not scriptural but man made? What teaching of Lutheranism takes away or destroys Justification by grace through faith?
@nschaub Hi..ok...so are you saying that baptism is optional for a christian and as well the Lord's Supper? And before you answer........Lutheranism believes that it is possible to be saved without baptism (thief on the cross) or without the Lord's Supper............but a christian cannot be saved if they DESPISE baptism and the Lord's Supper and refuse to use them. They are not optional. Christ comands us to use them both.
Dear Brother...I know 25 miles is a long ways. And I have no idea of the "quality" of the LCMS congregation there. But I would pray that you would start your way to the LCMS and leave it in God's loving hands how it ends up...It seems your options are limited. But being a devout Lutheran leaving Lutheranism does not seem to be an option. I hope you will stay in touch with me and I would be happy to visit with you by phone: work: 206.524.0024. Home: 206. 526.8820. Cell: 206. 979. 1551.
Yes...I am a very sincere when I and others pray for you in your situation which is very difficult. I do not mean to add to your pain/anguish. I am sorry if I did that...you are in my prayers...
Hi..ouch indeed! Yes..I know about the ALC I have been in the ministry for 31 years...but your rejection of closed communion is also the official teaching of the ELCA..that's why I said that....I fear that many conservative people like you in the ELCA will not look at the LCMS because of the issue of closed communion..that's why I said that...which is really too bad (from my perspective of course!) So did you understand why I put you and the ELCA together on Closed Communion?
No you are not a nusiance! A person cannot approach the table and deny the Real Presence..that's calling Jesus a liar..which is a lack of faith...surely you can understand that. And would you take communion with someone who believes that practicing gays should be ordained? By your very action you would be approving their belief. Martin Luther taught and practiced Clsoed Communion...you are the one with the non-Lutheran view...including all the ELCA...
Well, my friend, I am afraid that you are mixing up apples and oranges that is, what the Sacrament IS and how it is USED...Luther Did NOT see the Lord's Supper as something only of the heart..otherwise he would have approved of Communion with Ulrich Zwingli which he did not. And You are confusing who administers the Sacrament of the Altar with whom receives it. Unfortunately I don't think I can expalin this all to you over this little youtube boxes.
Hi..maybe Imissed sometlhing..but I can't follow your logic at all ...I understand what Luther says about baptism but would you explain to me how you conclude that what he says rules out closed communion..because I can't...Pastor Lassman
Hi there..I can't tell to whom your comment is directed..if to me..I agree with you and you have misunderstood me...the body and blood of Crhist are there regardless of the worthiness of a person..Pastor Lassman
In Sweden we have a sign which we make if we do not want or can not take part of the full communion in the eucharist and that is the right hand on the left shoulder (both in the Church of Sweden and the Catholic Church). Then we reiceve a blessing in the name of the Father, +Son and Holy Spirit with the holy sacrament. Is this also practised in the Missouri Synod?
That is very good, something you can recommend to other pastors who do not yet know this practise. Myself, when I on some occasions have attended catholic masses I go up to the priest or bishop myself, bow and show that I want the blessing and be in the communion of all christians although I am not in full communion with the Bishop of Rome and confess to all the catholic teachings, and also respect that I may not receive the eucharist without an exemption).
I am not sure how it is with the Missouri synod, but there may be a difference between closed communion in the catholic church and the Missouri Synod. The catholic priest do not ask the communicant if he is a catholic but assumes he is. If he is not he would not recieve it. However, if I believe in the real precense in the eucharist, and I stay for a while where I can't go to the communion otherwise I may ask the bishop for excemption. Is it also so in the Missouri Synod?!
HI..yes, if there is belief in the oral eating and drinking of the body and blood of Christ then pastor exceptions can be made for certain situations. Does this explain it?? Pastor Lassman
I am Eastern Orthodox. I have to thank you for explaining the notion closed communion very well.
I used to belong to one of the liberal-evangelical churches that practiced open communion, but that church probably didnt really believe in it in the 1st place (i.e. grape juice, whch they used instead of wine, is really a testament to the idea that its only represnetative anyway)
The opinion that you have to agree with all of the church doctrine when recieving the Holy Communion is the Catholic point of view (but I have respect for the belief). It should be sufficient when being 1. baptized (that is indeed a must), 2. believing in the real presence. For myself I would not accept the bread and wine in the baptist church only because their faith but the lack of priests in apostolic succession with the apostles. WIthout there are no Blood and Body of Christ!
The blood and body of Christ is given for all. I know our church welcomes all who believe in Christ to partake in communion whether they are Roman Catholic Baptist ect. Christ shed his blood for all and all are welcomed to receive his blood and body. We may have many different denominations and discrepancies on beliefs but all who believe are welcomed to the table.
I believe that communion should be taken with faith in God, and in your beliefs, not with conformity to a denomination's doctrine.
I believe that if you take it in faith that this is the transfigured body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, your actions DO NOT mean acceptance to the doctrine of the denomination offering the communion.
We are all children of Christ, therefore, it doesn't matter who is offering the communion, but the reason you take it.
Sharing in Christs true flesh & true blood is a sign of unity. We know it is just that as Jesus proclaimed it John 6:32--71. A Protestant that believes communion to be a mere symbol has clouded Christs message of the new covenant. As Catholic Christians, we can receive the body of our savior as true brothers and sisters in Christ. It is important that Christians do not stand divided, and unfortantely the Eucharist has become the subject of division. We should commune where we agree on doctrine.
HI..obviously we don't agree. Your actions DO mean acceptance of the doctrine of the church where you commune. If you commune at a Roman Catholic Church you say you agree with them...or a Mormon Church..etc. Communion is not just with God but with those you choose to commune with. It is not just an indivudual act but a communal one..thus you need to agree with them. You signed your name with "Rev." What church are you with? Thanks...
He is with the Ecumenical Catholic Church. I looked at his website. From what I can tell it is quasi Roman Catholic but not completely Protestant and not in communion with Rome. But I do agree with your statement above as Paul pretty much tells the rules governing Communion. It also shows respect as well.
Hi..In an LCMS church"Technically"......"no" an ELCA because the two churches are not in fellowship with each other.. but does it happen? Yes. The ELCA practices open communion so. "yes" they would commune an LCMS member...Pastor Lassman
I was raised in the ELCA. I am now a Traditional Roman Catholic. Open communion shows no need to believe in sound doctrine. The ELCA is so liberal I would not even call them Lutheran. Just as I would call the religion that Vatican II started is not the Catholic Church.
Hi. I maintain a love-hate relationship with the ELCA. I have really liked every LCMS pastor I ever met, though I know that church has problems too; I'm not that naive. But I always wondered how LCMS military chaplains (there are many of them) can function in such an ecumenical context without practicing open communion. Roman Catholic chaplains can, because there are so many Catholic soldiers, but not so many LCMS ones. Do they just avoid the sacrament most of the time, or bend the rules?
HI..you make a good obervation...an LCMS chaplain will try to keep true to his beliefs...but it must be hard. That's one reason I did not become a military chaplian...but I do believe many (most?) try to stay true to their beliefs...You would have to ask a chaplain how he does it...Pastor Lassman
I know something about this. By "Evangelical Lutheran" I assume you mean ELCA. The ELCA has declared pulpit & altar fellowship w/ all churches that subscribe to the Augsburg Confession. That includes the Missouri Synod. However, the Missouri Synod has not reciprocated. So, ELCA can commune with Missouri, and ELCA pastors can commune Missouri Synod members (or anyone desiring the sacrament) but Missouri Synod pastors might not commune ELCA members & teach their own not to commune with them .
Just wondering what would be the certain circumstances that I, as a Roman Catholic, would need to commune at a Lutheran Church? As Pastor Lassman said sometimes there are certain circumstances. The only thing I can think of would be a wedding or a funeral perhaps?
Hi..our position on this is very similar to the OFFICIAL position of Rome. You could commune at Messiah only under emergency circumstances which by definition if not very likely. And it would be the same for me in a Roman Catholic Parish. Pastor Lassman
I don't get why some of you folks are bashing the LC-MS. I'm not a Lutheran, but if I were, I would choose such a conservative congregation as that of the Missouri Synod. And who says they're not Trinitarians?
I am speaking about truth..not denominations. Truth is truth. Everything the LCMS teaches is found in the Bible and the early church. WE DO NOT TEACH ANYTING THAT HAS NOT BEEN TAUGHT IN THE PAST IN THE WRITINGS OF THE FATHERS. So maybe we should just stop this dicussion since it's hard to communicate in a meaningful way with 500 words or less. As a last attempt to educate you check out Werner Elert's book (a German theologian): "Eucharist and Church Fellowship in the First Four Centuries."
Stick to your beliefs that taking communion is about endorsement of demoninations, it isn't. Perhaps Missouri Synod Lutherans instruct those that communion is about belief in a church, not the Trinity. Most Lutherans (globally) disagree with you...(yes, by numbers overwelmingly) - so please don't claim to speak on behalf of "Lutherans" in your belief that communion is about belief in a church. People join churches. Communion is not "owned" by a particular church body.
I am speaking about truth..not denominations. Truth is truth. Everything the LCMS teaches is found in the Bible and the early church. WE DO NOT TEACH ANYTING THAT HAS NOT BEEN TAUGHT IN THE PAST IN THE WRITINGS OF THE FATHERS. So maybe we should just stop this dicussion since it's hard to communicate in a meaningful way with 500 words or less. As a last attempt to educate you check out Werner Elert's book (a German theologian): "Eucharist and Church Fellowship in the First Four Centuries."
Don't you understand that wherever you commune you are saying by your action that you agree with that church? So, if you communed at an LCMS church you would be saying you agreed with its official teaching (including closed communion)..if you communed at a Catholic church you would be saying you agreed that the Pope is the head of the church, purgatory and other teachings of the Catholic church..Pastor Lassman
To be clear for anyone reading most "protestant" churches, including Lutheran (less Missouri Synod and WELS) are in and welcome open communion - methodists, Presyb, UCC, Episcopalians, others, (even Missouri-Synod Lutherans) are welcome at God's table in Lutheran churches. Don't be scared off from attending or taking communion in a church with name Lutheran - just check that it is not a member of Missouri Synod if you are concerned you will not be welcomed to commune.
Thank you for you comments. First, truth is not determined by numbers. Second, if it were most Christians belong to churches that practice closed communion...when you add Rome and Easteran Orthodoxy. YOU are in the minority. And finally, the Early Church also practiced closed communion. Pastor Lassman
What about communing in a Lutheran Church (non Missouri Synod, like majority of Lutherans around the US and world?) For all seeing/listening, most Lutherans DO NOT have closed communion. In fact, the Lutherans are in full communion with most other major church bodies (only this small group of Lutherans not in full communion).
Most Lutherans do practice closed communion. The only ones that do not are the more free and willy nilly thinking ELCA congregations. The official teaching of the LCMS is you must be mo synod lutheran to take holy communion.
Does LCMS allow other Lutherans (ELCA, WELS) to commune in its churches?
ChristianEastern 2 weeks ago in playlist Favorite videos
@ChristianEastern Hi.............it varies from LCMS congregation. Pastoral decisions have to be made. Having said that..........we are not in Fellowship with either the ELCA or the WELS..............however, there is a dfiference......the LCMS broke relationships with the ELCA whereas the WELS broke relationship with the LCMS....the LCMS and WELS are much closer doctrinally than with the ELCA. Does this help?
nschaub 1 week ago
@nschaub Yes it does, thanks. Mainly when you referred to individual pastoral discretion
ChristianEastern 1 week ago
Comment removed
catchzz 2 months ago
@NixonisLord I bet Mount Rushmore just appeared there too.
catchzz 2 months ago
Closed Communion-is the wafer supposed to burn a hole in the tongue if you have another set of fantasies than yours? Religion is so weird!
NixonisLord 2 months ago
@NixonisLord The world without religion is so weird!
catchzz 2 months ago
ok, in the first video I watched of this guy I thought he was ELCA, he seems more confessional Lutheran in this video and the one on the rapture. I was confused when he disagreed with the creed on Jesus being a judge.
MrWelsluth 10 months ago
Nice Clip!
edwardchen2009 11 months ago
Cont.--. Thank you, pastor for your comments, but I’m off youtube over Great Lent (starts tomorrow after vespers for us). If you respond, I am not ignoring your comment,--I hope that you too have a joyful Lent and Pascha.
ukerkater 1 year ago
Cont.--I don't understand this legalistic and minimalist view of doing only what is required. Actually, I would argue that in protesting against the Catholic church. Protestants have thrown out much that in fact is required. I have no interest in defending R.C., but I do believe that they preserve more fullness of the faith than Protestants, although I understand why Luther felt spiritually betrayed by the R.C.
ukerkater 1 year ago
cont. ...Protestantism is very selective in its beliefs and practices. How can you justify a belief or practice historically and then turn around and deny the crucial nature of Holy Tradition passed down to us by the Apostles and the Church Fathers?
ukerkater 1 year ago
@ukerkater Hi..I used tradition/history as a SECONDARY support for closed communion..........closed communion is based on SCRIPTURE and supported by tranditon/history....that's Lutheranism....thanks for your comment!
nschaub 1 year ago
@nschaub But Holy Tradition precedes the compilation of the 27 book canon of the New Testatment. The Church Fathers determined the value of inspiration of texts based on their support of Holy Tradition--there is no conflict. Why are Scripture and Holy Tradition not complementary in your view?...
ukerkater 1 year ago
@ukerkater HI.........You cannot bind a person's conscience with any tradition that cannot be found in Scripture..........note how I said that: you cannot BIND a person's conscience with something unless it is required in SCRIPTURE........otherwise, human opinion and "traditions of men" start to rule in the Church.............Lutherans value traditions that are not CONTRARY to Scripture........thanks again for your comments......
nschaub 1 year ago
@nschaub Holy Tradition (distinct from manmade tradition) is the life of the Church before Scripture is given to us by the Church, through the action of the Holy Spirit. Holy Tradition is referred to in scripture as the oral Tradition of the Church which preceded the written text. Holy Tradition is never contrary to Scripture. It encapsulates the fullness of the teachings and practices of the Early (Orthodox--"correct teaching") Church.
ukerkater 1 year ago
By referring to history, you are actually pointing to Holy Tradition. Orthodoxy holds Holy Tradition, that is the faith of the Holy Fathers in very high regard...not only in terms of closed communion, the mystery of the Holy Eucharist,...but also in praising (blessing) the Theotokos, the saints
ukerkater 1 year ago
Pastor Lessman,
Good on you. Your exposition of truth will always received challenge from those who want to make God in their own image
ChristianEastern 1 year ago
Lutheranism is Heresy
OneFaithMinistries 1 year ago
@OneFaithMinistries Hi........so does this mean you reject Lutheranism totally? Or just certain teachings.........and which teachings are heretical?
nschaub 1 year ago
@nschaub I reject every bit of Lutheranism. It is nothing more than Diet Catholicism.
OneFaithMinistries 1 year ago
@OneFaithMinistries Hi.......you're not serious. Lutherans believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world and that we are justified by grace though faith in Jesus. Do you reject that?
nschaub 1 year ago
@nschaub They also teach Baptism is necessary for salvation and that unbaptized infants could perish. They also teach the physical presence of Christ in communion, which is far beyond heresy.
OneFaithMinistries 1 year ago
@OneFaithMinistries Hi...........well, that's what I thought....You don't think the EVERYTHING taught by Lutherans is hersey....just some things.........fair enough...
nschaub 1 year ago
@nschaub Let me put it this way, Lutheranism is not Christian. I feel so bad for people stuck in this DEAD religious system.
OneFaithMinistries 1 year ago
@OneFaithMinistries HI..........I see...and what is it about Lutheranism (and you know there are conservative Lutheans) which makes it not Christian. I would certainly like to know that...........
nschaub 1 year ago
@nschaub I am speaking of the Conservative Lutherans. You should know that liberals are not Christians no matter what denomination they are in. Lutheranism is nothing more than diet Catholicism. That is why it is not Christian. Martin Luther held too many Catholic doctrines; Lutherans are almost a road back to Catholicism. When i say it is not Christian, I mean the system as a while. Lutheranism is not Christian.
OneFaithMinistries 1 year ago
@OneFaithMinistries So. I trust in Jesus alone as my Savior from sinand death and eternal damnation and that means I am not Christian?
nschaub 1 year ago
@nschaub No. But Lutheranism ADDS things to that. They also corrupt the sacraments. Luther was no Christian. Lutheranism is a man-made religion.
OneFaithMinistries 1 year ago
@OneFaithMinistries Hi.wow........you certainly dismiss justificaiton by grace thorugh faith as if it's not very important.........that's the heart of Christianity.......how we are saved. What do Lutherans "add" that is not scriptural but man made? What teaching of Lutheranism takes away or destroys Justification by grace through faith?
nschaub 1 year ago
@nschaub BAPTISM! You confine God's Grace to something physical and then require it for salvation. You treat Communion the same way!
OneFaithMinistries 1 year ago
@nschaub Hi..ok...so are you saying that baptism is optional for a christian and as well the Lord's Supper? And before you answer........Lutheranism believes that it is possible to be saved without baptism (thief on the cross) or without the Lord's Supper............but a christian cannot be saved if they DESPISE baptism and the Lord's Supper and refuse to use them. They are not optional. Christ comands us to use them both.
nschaub 1 year ago
"Lutheranism":
It's like Catholicism with out all the fat.
Indutrial321 2 years ago
Dear Brother...I know 25 miles is a long ways. And I have no idea of the "quality" of the LCMS congregation there. But I would pray that you would start your way to the LCMS and leave it in God's loving hands how it ends up...It seems your options are limited. But being a devout Lutheran leaving Lutheranism does not seem to be an option. I hope you will stay in touch with me and I would be happy to visit with you by phone: work: 206.524.0024. Home: 206. 526.8820. Cell: 206. 979. 1551.
nschaub 2 years ago
Yes...I am a very sincere when I and others pray for you in your situation which is very difficult. I do not mean to add to your pain/anguish. I am sorry if I did that...you are in my prayers...
nschaub 2 years ago
Hi..ouch indeed! Yes..I know about the ALC I have been in the ministry for 31 years...but your rejection of closed communion is also the official teaching of the ELCA..that's why I said that....I fear that many conservative people like you in the ELCA will not look at the LCMS because of the issue of closed communion..that's why I said that...which is really too bad (from my perspective of course!) So did you understand why I put you and the ELCA together on Closed Communion?
nschaub 2 years ago
No you are not a nusiance! A person cannot approach the table and deny the Real Presence..that's calling Jesus a liar..which is a lack of faith...surely you can understand that. And would you take communion with someone who believes that practicing gays should be ordained? By your very action you would be approving their belief. Martin Luther taught and practiced Clsoed Communion...you are the one with the non-Lutheran view...including all the ELCA...
nschaub 2 years ago
Well, my friend, I am afraid that you are mixing up apples and oranges that is, what the Sacrament IS and how it is USED...Luther Did NOT see the Lord's Supper as something only of the heart..otherwise he would have approved of Communion with Ulrich Zwingli which he did not. And You are confusing who administers the Sacrament of the Altar with whom receives it. Unfortunately I don't think I can expalin this all to you over this little youtube boxes.
nschaub 2 years ago
Hi..maybe Imissed sometlhing..but I can't follow your logic at all ...I understand what Luther says about baptism but would you explain to me how you conclude that what he says rules out closed communion..because I can't...Pastor Lassman
nschaub 2 years ago
Hi there..I can't tell to whom your comment is directed..if to me..I agree with you and you have misunderstood me...the body and blood of Crhist are there regardless of the worthiness of a person..Pastor Lassman
nschaub 2 years ago
In Sweden we have a sign which we make if we do not want or can not take part of the full communion in the eucharist and that is the right hand on the left shoulder (both in the Church of Sweden and the Catholic Church). Then we reiceve a blessing in the name of the Father, +Son and Holy Spirit with the holy sacrament. Is this also practised in the Missouri Synod?
karpov89 2 years ago
Hi...yes we do have that practice..I don't know how many congregations use it...but it is used...thanks!
nschaub 2 years ago
That is very good, something you can recommend to other pastors who do not yet know this practise. Myself, when I on some occasions have attended catholic masses I go up to the priest or bishop myself, bow and show that I want the blessing and be in the communion of all christians although I am not in full communion with the Bishop of Rome and confess to all the catholic teachings, and also respect that I may not receive the eucharist without an exemption).
karpov89 2 years ago
Hi...very well said...
nschaub 2 years ago
Thanks Pastor Lassman, I think this is sound.
karpov89 2 years ago
I am not sure how it is with the Missouri synod, but there may be a difference between closed communion in the catholic church and the Missouri Synod. The catholic priest do not ask the communicant if he is a catholic but assumes he is. If he is not he would not recieve it. However, if I believe in the real precense in the eucharist, and I stay for a while where I can't go to the communion otherwise I may ask the bishop for excemption. Is it also so in the Missouri Synod?!
karpov89 2 years ago
HI..yes, if there is belief in the oral eating and drinking of the body and blood of Christ then pastor exceptions can be made for certain situations. Does this explain it?? Pastor Lassman
nschaub 2 years ago
Good eveing Pastor
I am Eastern Orthodox. I have to thank you for explaining the notion closed communion very well.
I used to belong to one of the liberal-evangelical churches that practiced open communion, but that church probably didnt really believe in it in the 1st place (i.e. grape juice, whch they used instead of wine, is really a testament to the idea that its only represnetative anyway)
jesujoyofmansdesirin 2 years ago
The opinion that you have to agree with all of the church doctrine when recieving the Holy Communion is the Catholic point of view (but I have respect for the belief). It should be sufficient when being 1. baptized (that is indeed a must), 2. believing in the real presence. For myself I would not accept the bread and wine in the baptist church only because their faith but the lack of priests in apostolic succession with the apostles. WIthout there are no Blood and Body of Christ!
karpov89 3 years ago
The blood and body of Christ is given for all. I know our church welcomes all who believe in Christ to partake in communion whether they are Roman Catholic Baptist ect. Christ shed his blood for all and all are welcomed to receive his blood and body. We may have many different denominations and discrepancies on beliefs but all who believe are welcomed to the table.
Lavan9118 3 years ago
Hello,
I believe that communion should be taken with faith in God, and in your beliefs, not with conformity to a denomination's doctrine.
I believe that if you take it in faith that this is the transfigured body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, your actions DO NOT mean acceptance to the doctrine of the denomination offering the communion.
We are all children of Christ, therefore, it doesn't matter who is offering the communion, but the reason you take it.
Rev. Andrew Hamilton
2008805 3 years ago
Sharing in Christs true flesh & true blood is a sign of unity. We know it is just that as Jesus proclaimed it John 6:32--71. A Protestant that believes communion to be a mere symbol has clouded Christs message of the new covenant. As Catholic Christians, we can receive the body of our savior as true brothers and sisters in Christ. It is important that Christians do not stand divided, and unfortantely the Eucharist has become the subject of division. We should commune where we agree on doctrine.
catchzz 3 years ago
HI..obviously we don't agree. Your actions DO mean acceptance of the doctrine of the church where you commune. If you commune at a Roman Catholic Church you say you agree with them...or a Mormon Church..etc. Communion is not just with God but with those you choose to commune with. It is not just an indivudual act but a communal one..thus you need to agree with them. You signed your name with "Rev." What church are you with? Thanks...
nschaub 3 years ago
He is with the Ecumenical Catholic Church. I looked at his website. From what I can tell it is quasi Roman Catholic but not completely Protestant and not in communion with Rome. But I do agree with your statement above as Paul pretty much tells the rules governing Communion. It also shows respect as well.
bobbyke31 3 years ago
Does anybody know if an Evangelical Lutheran can commune in a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church, or the other way around?
bobbyke31 3 years ago
Hi..In an LCMS church"Technically"......"no" an ELCA because the two churches are not in fellowship with each other.. but does it happen? Yes. The ELCA practices open communion so. "yes" they would commune an LCMS member...Pastor Lassman
nschaub 3 years ago
I was raised in the ELCA. I am now a Traditional Roman Catholic. Open communion shows no need to believe in sound doctrine. The ELCA is so liberal I would not even call them Lutheran. Just as I would call the religion that Vatican II started is not the Catholic Church.
47split 3 years ago
Hi. I maintain a love-hate relationship with the ELCA. I have really liked every LCMS pastor I ever met, though I know that church has problems too; I'm not that naive. But I always wondered how LCMS military chaplains (there are many of them) can function in such an ecumenical context without practicing open communion. Roman Catholic chaplains can, because there are so many Catholic soldiers, but not so many LCMS ones. Do they just avoid the sacrament most of the time, or bend the rules?
boriato 3 years ago
HI..you make a good obervation...an LCMS chaplain will try to keep true to his beliefs...but it must be hard. That's one reason I did not become a military chaplian...but I do believe many (most?) try to stay true to their beliefs...You would have to ask a chaplain how he does it...Pastor Lassman
nschaub 3 years ago
I know something about this. By "Evangelical Lutheran" I assume you mean ELCA. The ELCA has declared pulpit & altar fellowship w/ all churches that subscribe to the Augsburg Confession. That includes the Missouri Synod. However, the Missouri Synod has not reciprocated. So, ELCA can commune with Missouri, and ELCA pastors can commune Missouri Synod members (or anyone desiring the sacrament) but Missouri Synod pastors might not commune ELCA members & teach their own not to commune with them .
boriato 3 years ago
how can wine and bread turn into body and blood do you become cannibals?
bandjoboy 4 years ago
Just wondering what would be the certain circumstances that I, as a Roman Catholic, would need to commune at a Lutheran Church? As Pastor Lassman said sometimes there are certain circumstances. The only thing I can think of would be a wedding or a funeral perhaps?
bobbyke31 4 years ago
Hi..our position on this is very similar to the OFFICIAL position of Rome. You could commune at Messiah only under emergency circumstances which by definition if not very likely. And it would be the same for me in a Roman Catholic Parish. Pastor Lassman
nschaub 4 years ago
I don't get why some of you folks are bashing the LC-MS. I'm not a Lutheran, but if I were, I would choose such a conservative congregation as that of the Missouri Synod. And who says they're not Trinitarians?
AnHonestChristian 4 years ago
read THE KING JAMES BIBLE AND LEARN THE TRUTH
LADYTIRE3 4 years ago
I am speaking about truth..not denominations. Truth is truth. Everything the LCMS teaches is found in the Bible and the early church. WE DO NOT TEACH ANYTING THAT HAS NOT BEEN TAUGHT IN THE PAST IN THE WRITINGS OF THE FATHERS. So maybe we should just stop this dicussion since it's hard to communicate in a meaningful way with 500 words or less. As a last attempt to educate you check out Werner Elert's book (a German theologian): "Eucharist and Church Fellowship in the First Four Centuries."
nschaub 4 years ago
Stick to your beliefs that taking communion is about endorsement of demoninations, it isn't. Perhaps Missouri Synod Lutherans instruct those that communion is about belief in a church, not the Trinity. Most Lutherans (globally) disagree with you...(yes, by numbers overwelmingly) - so please don't claim to speak on behalf of "Lutherans" in your belief that communion is about belief in a church. People join churches. Communion is not "owned" by a particular church body.
jschiferl 4 years ago
I am speaking about truth..not denominations. Truth is truth. Everything the LCMS teaches is found in the Bible and the early church. WE DO NOT TEACH ANYTING THAT HAS NOT BEEN TAUGHT IN THE PAST IN THE WRITINGS OF THE FATHERS. So maybe we should just stop this dicussion since it's hard to communicate in a meaningful way with 500 words or less. As a last attempt to educate you check out Werner Elert's book (a German theologian): "Eucharist and Church Fellowship in the First Four Centuries."
nschaub 4 years ago
Don't you understand that wherever you commune you are saying by your action that you agree with that church? So, if you communed at an LCMS church you would be saying you agreed with its official teaching (including closed communion)..if you communed at a Catholic church you would be saying you agreed that the Pope is the head of the church, purgatory and other teachings of the Catholic church..Pastor Lassman
nschaub 4 years ago
To be clear for anyone reading most "protestant" churches, including Lutheran (less Missouri Synod and WELS) are in and welcome open communion - methodists, Presyb, UCC, Episcopalians, others, (even Missouri-Synod Lutherans) are welcome at God's table in Lutheran churches. Don't be scared off from attending or taking communion in a church with name Lutheran - just check that it is not a member of Missouri Synod if you are concerned you will not be welcomed to commune.
jschiferl 4 years ago
Thank you for you comments. First, truth is not determined by numbers. Second, if it were most Christians belong to churches that practice closed communion...when you add Rome and Easteran Orthodoxy. YOU are in the minority. And finally, the Early Church also practiced closed communion. Pastor Lassman
nschaub 4 years ago
What about communing in a Lutheran Church (non Missouri Synod, like majority of Lutherans around the US and world?) For all seeing/listening, most Lutherans DO NOT have closed communion. In fact, the Lutherans are in full communion with most other major church bodies (only this small group of Lutherans not in full communion).
jschiferl 4 years ago
Most Lutherans do practice closed communion. The only ones that do not are the more free and willy nilly thinking ELCA congregations. The official teaching of the LCMS is you must be mo synod lutheran to take holy communion.
joeshel1128 4 years ago