Bodyline-Sydney-"They want to see you broken"

[TheKing2494]

lolz Elrond playing cricket

[11muel]

@irishgodfatherchris The aim of bodyline or also known as leg theory was to take wickets. Sure the odd intentionaly harmful deleviry was sent down to their opposite number but that happens in every game just to show who top dog is. Explain why you cant have 3 men behind square on the leg side? Body line brought that ristriction in because men would just crowd around the bat on the leg side in hope of the batsmen avoiding a short ball and poping it up to the men in close

[nphanlon1973]

seeing these actors reminds me of the point made to by an american bloke about baseball,which is just as true about cricket.you can be fit and strong but the vast majority will stuggle to bowl/throw a ball over 60 mph.you need flexibility,coordination and a body that won't break under the strain.very few have these traits.

[GERAINT17]

Nothing in the bodyline series would be considered exceptional today, even at county level. Just because (as usual) the Brits got there first doesn't make it unsportsman-like. Look at the windies in the 70's snd how they roughed up the likes of Brian Close.

[vizmouli]

@GERAINT17 U forget one crucial part. No helmets then. Today even a tailender batsman is not afraid to take a blow knowing his head wont be blown off.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@moss7573 no but thats where most of the bowls ended up, the whole point of bowling is knock the batsman's stumps not knock the batsman out

[Stokie09123]

@irishgodfatherchris The whole point of bowling is to take a wicket, not bowl him out, in this case bouncers on the leg side were the orders of the day.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@Stokie09123 with the intention of hitting him, not getting him out.

[GERAINT17]

@irishgodfatherchris bollocks

[Stokie09123]

@irishgodfatherchris With the intention of causing deflections via the bat to the leg side field.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@Stokie09123 so they say but when you are bowling intentionally at the batsman's body and nowhere else there is clearly the intention of hitting him and in many cases they did

[Stokie09123]

@irishgodfatherchris Then it's the batsman's job to get out of the way. That's Cricket.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@Stokie09123 when the ball is coming at you at 90 mph 99 times out of 100 you can't get out of the way.

[Stokie09123]

@irishgodfatherchris And after all this we've come to the reason as to why bodyline was so successful, a masterstroke by Jardine.

[xwingclass]

cricket is the only game where God decides its result.

[CinnAlla]

[By the way folks, the words of Ian Chappell that I quoted are from 2010]

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla my point still stands regarding him whether he said it yesterday or 30 years ago it doesn't matter

[CinnAlla]

@irishgodfatherchris I don't really understand why you consider Ian Chappell's words so irrelevant, irrespective of how long ago he played and when he said them. His words come from a transcript of a series of talks about who were the best Ashes captains in his opinion (on cricinfo.com). He's a cricketer of good standing, an Aussie, and was a fine captain.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla I do not rate Chappell as a captain, I do however for Benaud, Bradman, Border and Taylor. Also did they ask any other living captains of their opinions too. the point of bowling as I said is to knock the batsman's stumps (thats why they're there in the first place) not knock the batsman out, which was clearly Jardine's intention if it wasn't he wouldn't have tried it or he at least wouldn't have done it to all 11 players on the Australian team

[CinnAlla]

@irishgodfatherchris You're wrong about bowling - there is so much more to bowling than aiming at the stumps, that's such a narrow view. If that's all there was to it, no one would be stumped, or caught in the slips off a nick, or caught from a badly-executed pull or hook. Aiming at the stumps just isn't the whole science of bowling, and that's that!

[irishgodfatherchris]

@xwingclass then explain why he had bowlers aiming at the batsman's body, if he didn't want to injure them why did he employ the tactic

[irishgodfatherchris]

@xwingclass then how is it that as a result the Australian keeper received major damage to his body after he copped a 85mph ball in the head

[irishgodfatherchris]

@xwingclass that was a one off whilst you were fielding these batsmen were consistently forced to defend their lives how would you like it if you had every bowler aiming every delivery at your head

[wpcooper1978]

@CinnAlla I like Ian Chappell, but I think he believes too much in his own myth. Sometimes his opinions are bang on. Other times his opinions are too personal and unjustified, like his calling of Steve Waugh, selfish.

[CinnAlla]

@wpcooper1978 He's not the first cricketer to be self opinionated and won't be the last. Jeff Boycott springs to mind... :-)

[wpcooper1978]

@CinnAlla True, Boycott is unbearable. Chappelli is likeable. I just think he got it wrong about Waugh.

[CinnAlla]

@irishgodfatherchris Ah, at least we agree about something, Benaud, Bradman, Border, and Taylor were fine skippers. Let's leave it there for today, as we're not getting anywhere with the rest of the debate.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla farewell then ladeen.

[CinnAlla]

“If you want to encapsulate what Test cricket is all about, just look at what Jardine did... Bradman at that stage had an average of about a hundred. So what Jardine decided to do was to try to cut his average down. If you want to increase your chances of winning in a Test Series, you’ve got to try and disrupt the averages of the best players in the opposition… I’ve always looked upon Jardine as a very smart captain and obviously a very good captain” – Ian Chappell, Capt of Australia 1971-75

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla and your using an Australian player from 40 years ago to make your point here, would you like to face a 90 mph ball coming directly at your body without padding at a constant rate

[CinnAlla]

@irishgodfatherchris

1] You too are using examples from the past (actually almost 80 years ago rather than 40).

2] Both I and my late father have faced just such bowling, maybe not quite as accurate as Larwood, but I have had loads of bruises and a couple of fat lips.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla of course and as a cricketer myself I have scars and lumps too but I iterate that you would've been wearing protection whilst you received these injuries by much slower bowlers, players we're knocked unconscious, they had broken jaws they received all manner of injuries as a result of this tactic.

[CinnAlla]

@irishgodfatherchris Actually both myself and my late father played our cricket before the days of protection. Like Bradman, McCabe, and Jardine all we had were pads and a box. My father regularly faced overseas professionals (Windies, Indians, Aussies) who bowled to a high standard and damned fast. Myself less so, I grant you.

[CinnAlla]

[Some of my comments are disappearing as I post them - apologies if duplicates turn up]

[CinnAlla]

@getupkid1984 Bill Voce used it as well as Larwood. It was also used the following season by West Indian bowlers Constantine and Martindale. Martindale was about as fast as Larwood, but Jardine kept his nerve, soaked up the bowling and made a century - against "bodyline" bowling!

[raunaksood]

in which year was this match played?

[CinnAlla]

@raunaksood It was the MMC tour of Australia in the winter of 1932/33

[Imrankniazi]

@ASkywalker1 Unquestionably!

[imemadhu]

The series in wich Bradmans average fell low to 2 digits.....low to 60....

[EnigmaticMayur]

2:45 that's it? that was bradman ? huh all that hype.

Tendulkar is the greatest batsman ever in the game.

Scored 5 times more runs against 10 times better bowlers all over the world !

[figjam999]

@EnigmaticMayur

You do realise it's an actor right? It's not actually Bradman?

99.94 makes a mockery of your claim.

[Fricasso79]

Australian media loves to point out which England players are south-african born. They can't mention Trott or KP or Prior or even Strauss without mentioning 'south-african born' at some point.  I wonder if they were the same with 'Indian born' Jardine.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@Fricasso79 well how bad must your county players be if you require half an overseas team to win

[CinnAlla]

@irishgodfatherchris Re "overseas players" - overused argument!

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla half of your team aren't English all of your key players are South African or Irish

[CinnAlla]

@irishgodfatherchris I'm a Scot! LOL

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla fair point then why are you defending them or has the SNP fought for nothing

[CinnAlla]

@irishgodfatherchris Sorry, but if you're going to bringing in irrelevant nonsense like the SNP then I'm not going to bother discussing things with you.

It's not a case of "defending' but of taking a dispassionate, disinterested look at the game of cricket of the time.

(By the way, Jardine was a Scot, born in India - work that one out! LOL)

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla Jardine was born in British India not the Republic so he was a Brit to begin with but fact that in order to win he decided if I can't get them out I'll knock them out instead.

[CinnAlla]

@irishgodfatherchris

"if I can't get them out I'll knock them out instead."

An old argument not supported by contemporary accounts and certainly not the words of Jardine himself. Percy Fender, captain of Sussex, had drawn to Jardine's attention the fact that Bradman flinched from rising balls. This indicates that the tactic was intimidatory. A brave batsman could stand up to it and hit the ball. NSW's Stan McCabe did just that, and Jardine did it himself.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla I never once mentioned that it was a quote I said thats essentially in his mind what he decided because if he didn't bodyline wouldn't have happened

[CinnAlla]

@irishgodfatherchris " I never once mentioned that it was a quote I said thats essentially in his mind what he decided because if he didn't bodyline wouldn't have happened."

You would have to be a mind-reader to be able to state that. Actually consider the available evidence and you might change your opinion. I'm not asking you to like bodyline bowling, just to be objective about the subject.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla if you intentionally bowl at someone's body you clearly have the objective of injuring them with secondary objective of actually getting them out.

[055697]

next time i captain my club side i am gonna say ''leg theory please harold''.

[CinnAlla]

@055697 Nah - say what they say in the Windies: "Rough him up a bit". :)

[eagerterrier]

@ronnydev Yes, Bill Woodfull did indeed just pat it back to Larwood. In this day and age, simply unbelievable sportsmanship - look up Bill_Woodfull#Bodyline on wikipedia - towards the bottom of that section

[tomodude6542]

i personnally think that is the most sportsmanship ever displayed by a cricketer in the game's history.

[MrPetercriss1971]

douglas jardine.our greatest skipper!!!!

[JasonRadley]

Bodyline and Gallipoli - the Aussies have got an obsession about demonising the Poms for national defeats.

[Roper122]

@JasonRadley " Bodyline and Gallipoli - the Aussies have got an obsession about demonising the Poms for national defeats. "

Don't know about Gallipoli.. but in the case of Bodyline.. they've clearly got a point.

[JasonRadley]

@Roper122 Did England ever demonise Punter or Warney?

[Bernie8330]

If I'm not mistaken Larwood then went and scored 98 as a nightwatchmen in that same final test.

[theuglyhairmonster]

whats the name of this film then?

[paramoreistheshiz]

the poms just cant take that we have and always will have the best batsmen why do they go and make all this shit, its because they are jealous

[gt3107]

oi its an aussie movie

[paramoreistheshiz]

id charge it and send it down the ground and make him run lol

[8742leeds]

i understand he did and jardine made him field in the covers for three overs after

[cavalier080854]

Yes, this clip is essentially correct, Larwood finished the over with the ball paddled back to him, though i'm not sure about the picking the ball up part.

[shmedo1]

@cavalier080854 no he would have been out handled the ball if he picked it up

[Imrankniazi]

I reckon, sir, you are being over-critical of your countrymen.

It was tactical thinking by Jardine, IMO, and many captains and pace bowlers have done it after him as well. Maybe not the 4-man leg side field, but similar bowling tactics have been employed.

It's the game...Get on with it!

[Imrankniazi]

Stop whinging about things like these.

Snow bowled deliberately to hurt Aussie batsmen (remember Terry Jenner?) in the 70/71 series. Thommo and Lillee launched a bumper assault in 1974/75.

Holding and co., with the blessings of Lloyd, went for Indian blood in Sabina Park in 1976.

My point is that cricket is a tough game and things like these happen sometime. Lets just get on with it and stop complaining like wussies. Kudos to Jardine for a master-stroke!

[Roper122]

@Imrankniazi " My point is that cricket is a tough game and things like these happen sometime. Lets just get on with it and stop complaining like wussies "

Every single example you mentioned was from the 70s.

If this was so normal for 1932, then it would not have rated a mention...

It wasn't.

Kudos to Jardine? Your point shows no knowledge of the history of the game.

[Imrankniazi]

@Roper122 "Every single example you mentioned was from the 70s."

Fair enough. How about Bishop and Walsh against Robin Smith and co. in WI's Eng tour (late 80s)? Holding bowling three beamers (NOT bouncers) to Syed Kirmani in Madras, 1984? Or Donald targetting Michael Atherton famously in 1998?

Fast bowlers have always used pace to injure or frighten batsman. Jardine was the first to do it in 1932 and thus drew flak. I would still maintain that he was a man ahead of his time!

[Roper122]

@Imrankniazi ...I pointed out that your examples were from the 70's, and you responded with examples from the 80's and 90's???

Way to miss the point entirely!

If you think bodyline is comparable to the West Indies in the 80's...then you need a history lesson.

[Imrankniazi]

@Roper122 The only difference is that they employed 4 men on the leg side to get the batsman fending off. Clive Lloyd always had two short-legs for his bowlers. In special cases (for eg. against David Steele) an extra leg gully was employed as well.

The intention was always to hit the batsman on his body, get him fending off or backing away. In Jardine's case that was berated as 'bodyline' but if Ian Chappell or Lloyd does it, it is called a 'master tactic'. Some double standards there!

[Roper122]

@Imrankniazi .... I see, and did Clive Lloyd play in 30's?

Seems to me you keep avoiding the point... could it be that you're comparing the 70's to the 30's? Clive Lloyd of course had fielding restrictions...restrictions that were brought in..surprise, surprise - after body line, funny that.

Hmmmmmm.

[Imrankniazi]

@Roper122 What is so difficult to understand here? I gave Clive Lloyd just as an example because he had the means to do it. Same with Chappelli.

In the 1930s, this kind of tactic was not heard of. I realise that and in a sense Jardine gave the game a new direction. Field restrictions were brought in after that but it did little to discourage captains from employing this theory. Everybody has missed the basic point and is demonising Jardine. How far would this 'moral policing' work?

[Roper122]

@Imrankniazi ..there's nothing to understand.

You tried to equate the 30's with the 70's 80's and beyond.

You were forced to admit that the rules were changed

( oddly enough, no rules were ever changed for Clive Lloyd )

Now you grasp at "moral policing".

Perhaps what Jardine did was immoral, but it was definitely, unsafe, mean spirited, desperate and unsportsmanlike...

no one holds him up as an innovative sportsman ( oh..except you )

[CinnAlla]

@Imrankniazi

I'm with you on this.

Former Australian Test captain Ian Chappell rates Jardine's captaincy very highly, says his decision to order fast, short-pitched balls on leg stump was within the rules of the game, and was a legitimate way of attacking the batting averages of the opposition. I agree. When I was young and played cricket I had ball-shaped bruises all over me - it was part of the game.

Stan McCabe showed that fast leg bowling was playable during the 32/33/ Ashes series.

[Imrankniazi]

@CinnAlla I was 11 years old and less than 5 feet tall when I played my first house game in school with the proper cricket ball. A gangling 16-yr old 6'3" bowler bowled a length ball which took off on a matting wicket and hit me flush on the unprotected jaw.

I lost 4 teeth and along with the pain learnt a very important lesson. That there is no man's game without some blood shed and people who whinge and complain have no place in competitive sport. Pussies that complain can go play ludo!

[CinnAlla]

@Imrankniazi Meanwhile England have just won the Second Ashes Test at Adelaide by an innings and 71 runs. Cricket is now in the 21st century. :)

[Imrankniazi]

@CinnAlla I cannot say that I am surprised. For the first time in over a decade, I have serious questions about the ability of an Australian attack to take 20 wickets to win a Test. It'll be interesting to see if the hosts can up their game for the third one!

[CaptainMark87]

@Imrankniazi Once the bell is rung, there's no way to unring it. They have been captured and memorialized. Happy new year.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla be that as it may but the whole idea of bowling is to knock the batsman's stumps not knock him out yes it was legal but was it in the spirit of the game

[CinnAlla]

@irishgodfatherchris Well that of course is the whole matter of the debate.

I would however argue that the "whole idea of bowling" is NOT in fact "to knock the batsman's stumps". There are other aspects of bowling, such as to tempt a batsman to play at a ball which moves away, creating a catching opportunity.

Also the object of "fast leg theory" bowling was not to "knock the batsman out", but to restrict, intimidate, and to tempt into rash shots; there's plenty of contemporary evidence.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@CinnAlla aiming at the body of the batsman has the obvious intention of doing some serious damage to the batsman especially when they don't have padding of any kind on their person

[lozzag13]

@Imrankniazi What a pity they didn't have that mindset back then, Larwood would have enjoyed such a better career

[NathanF11989]

2:16 - forty-six years later Andrew Hilditch would be given out for doing that!!

[dannycatch]

Biggest whinge in the History of sport

[coolioto]

Everythings gonna be ok

[Grayling57]

Say what you like about this episode in cricketing history - but facts remain. Jardine was a driven man. He was obsessed with finding Bradman's few weak spots and exploiting them. Bradman was approaching his absolute peak so was near invicible but Jardine found his 'Achilles Heel'. If an Aussie had gone to these lengths and risked everything to breakdown a seemingly unbeatable opponent, his statue would be a national shrine. Jardine is still loathed by some but he was ahead of his time.

[DoctorScrumpy]

Leg theory was the true term, not bodyline.

[irishgodfatherchris]

true the but the idea of fast leg theory is deliberatley bowling into the body of the batsmen which is not only dangerous but potentially illegal

[wrexhamjack123]

Potentially illegal? That makes no sense.

It was perfectly legal at the time.

[irishgodfatherchris]

i meant in a criminal sense

[wrexhamjack123]

Well that's ridiculous, if you go on that basis most of Rugby is illegal, as is Boxing and martial arts etc.

[irishgodfatherchris]

ahh... Yeah it is if a Policeman thinks that it over steps the boundary so to speak he could chrge them on summons (in Australia that has happened)

[coolioto]

I would have danced down the wicket and smashed the English bastard back over his head!

[paramoreistheshiz]

i agree but how when hes bowling round his legs lol

[theuglyhairmonster]

its a respect thing he was made to finish the over by his captain he didnt think it was fair and respected his injury

[coolioto]

I figured that

[Lockyb24]

where can i download this????

[fireblade929]

i got an origianl copy off ebay, came from australia, good buy but different region so make sure u have a dvd player that can play it, also got anzacs too, nearlly all the same actors.

[Imrankniazi]

Respect for Gilchrist..A great batsman, but an even greater sportsman.

[Taran00123]

Great batsman yes, great sportsman NO

reason, u walk when u edge ball ok good, then why do u appeal behind stumps when batsman didnt edge?

[pubuman]

All bouncers are deliberate... That's a plainly idiotic comment!

[adityamidas]

mate can you post more of the series ! great to see it again ...

[gthotshot]

WOW, excellent strokeplay, some fiery bowling there.

[Majocu]

I remember watching this mini-series. Anyone know where the theme might be heard?

[esucil]

I used to love this as a kid.. they used to show it in a local channel in srilanka in some odd hour and i used to stay up to watch it..

[ImmortalAmethyst]

I watched this on television when it was first aired - I'd totally forgotten about it until now. How wonderful to see it again.

I agree with Cambronne2005 - the book "Bodyline Autopsy" is excellent.

[Wilshire101]

That is a ridiculous comment to make. No team deserves that sort of unsportsmanlike treatment, not Australia, not England, not even India. The Australian cricket team were perfect Gentlemen at the time that this series was played, unfortunately that can't be said for the present lot, excepting Hussey and Gilchrist. But nor can it be said of the Indian team, excepting perhaps Tendulkar.

[yesvinnie]

Really? What about Dravid? Kumble? Sehwag-he never got into any real trouble? I'd say on average there are a lot more gentlemen in other teams than Australia at the moment. I understand you were trying to say that Australian team has lost it's way the spirit of the game but, you don't necessarily need to put down other teams especially without a truthful reason. Also, what makes u think that the Australians at that time were saints? U wouldn't know that unless you are one hundred years old.

[ToadiAcceleratio]

Rahul Dravid for sure, he is a true gentleman.

[mutinyvizier]

I'm Indian and appreciate getup's comments, but in this day and age with umpires giving so many bad decisions against batsmen when they're not out, it would be unreasonable and unrealistic to expect them to walk

what i would ask of ponting is to play the game hard, yes, but without ill-will or rancour on the the field - by which I mean sledging and trash talking - that demeans the sport and the world's greatest cricketing nation - australia don't need such tactics - they are too talented a side

[gatesrocks]

Whatever happened to Australian sportsmanship over the last 7 decades?

[theuglyhairmonster]

we got tough

[Playtechy]

What to you suggest to Ponting; to be more sportsman like?

[cavalier080854]

Larwood, Voce and Bowes all bowled Bodyline. Only Gubby Allen (who was an amateur)refused to bowl this style of attack.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@cavalier080854 but since Allen was actually an Australian you'd understand why he refused

[yogikanna]

which team is bowling and which team is batting. Which team used the bodyline technique?

[cavalier080854]

England used Bodyline tactics, in the blue caps are bowling, Australia, in the baggy green caps are batting.

[Tripo3792]

They didn't deserve that. How would you like to be bowled to like that. They should have apologized, the English from that ashes were the worst sports ive ever seen and heard off. What if australia was the one who bowled the bodyline, wat would you all say than that england dont need to be apoligised to. And the india test in sydney was the umpire not just the australians i think that test should be fergotten for al time. A bit redikulouse about the week of fuss.

[cavalier080854]

After this series, the english bowlers returned to their counties and played this style of attack in the english counties matches. Jardin played against bodyline and was hit repeatedly without complaint. A case of sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind. If you cant take it, don't dish it out.

[uibyong]

apology for what? The Aussies are the worst sportsmen on the planet.... cheat and do anything to win at all costs...check out the recent test against India!!!

[cavalier080854]

The point i was trying to make was, if an apology had to be made it should have been given by Jardin, though no apology should have been given.

[cavalier080854]

Yes, i obtained it from e-bay, unfortunately it is only available in PAL region 4.

[808D3]

Bizarre

[cavalier080854]

Bizarre, but true. After this series, Lords asked Larwood to sign an apology to australian cricket. Even though he was a miner, married with kids, he asked if he could consult his mother. Who replied "Harold, if you sign that, you'll never see me alive again". A ringing endorsement for the sportsmanship of her son.

The apology should have been given by Jardin, the England skipper.