Ving Tsun Chi Sao - No Slop Hands! Sifu Tom Chi

[combatvingtsun]

Great video. Thanks Sibak !!

Mark Messare

[Wingchunkangaroo]

Can you please explain why when rolling you don't keep forward force? it seems that you test the structure ever roll but don't have a constant force engaged. I do not practice Ving tsun I practice chui shong tin Hong Kong lineage of Wing Chun and we are trained to maintain an even and constant level of force so as to spring through an opponents guard when ever there is a hole. i am just trying to understand what you get out of doing it that way? could you please respond? This is a genuine query.

[heartslord]

Complex answer.

First, this is training and there is always a forward energy however as we construct our tools and learn technique we need to be able to come to rest (in the beginning). There is always a "living" connection. The thing is that everytime you use force you may be expecting to receive force back. However, you have created a "handle" or "step" for me to use against you by either bypassing your force (a commitment you've made that I use against you) or jutting or otherwise.. (contd)

[heartslord]

part II

redirecting or dismantling you. Some people play like "mud" with constant power and think this is an achievement because in chi sau you can't penetrate them. In a fight though instead of my staying at chi sao range and engaging with the mud I would use it to my advantage and use a laser strike, presumably deadly, like going between the blades of a turbine and striking at the engine.

VERY IMPORTANT The springing forward energy you speak of to "fill a hole" or otherwise enter is (contd)

[heartslord]

actually coming from the floor through your feet, waist and the structure of the upper body, just like a "one inch" punch. In advanced practice it's not apparent that all that happens with a one inch punch but it's not just the arms or fist. In the same way when we move forward in chi sau or full combat it's not the arms being flung it's the entire body that moves forward having earned the right to enter. That happens because the other person overmatches energy, loses contact or doesn't (contd)

[heartslord]

part 4

have the ability to pin your centerline with absolute control and flexibility to adapt to the tiniest variation of your movement. So the forward energy is there when the situation calls for it however you can only enter when you've earned it and the chung chi comes from the feet. When you are tight all the time it's the EXACT same thing as "telegraphing", all you've done is to let me know exactly where you are. I on the other hand and completely poised to enter but you can't read a ..

[heartslord]

part 5

single thing from the contact you've made with me. And my job then becomes to be the guy seated in the boat and rocking it about while you stand in the boat trying not to fall in. It's childs play. So the answer is, the arms are always on alert, never giving information to the other, taking advantage of minute energy & directional changes as well as the slighest breach of proper alignment.

It's puppetry. And some of us are puppet masters. Brute force? Nope. Intelligent application. Thx!

[heartslord]

p.s. It's worth it to make the trip to better understand what I'm speaking of. Look forward to seeing you.

[heartslord]

One final thing, actually I am giving you information with my arms and energy/force that you can read however, it is all intended to cause you to move about. It's the kitten and the string, all just to get you to move about sloppily and allow me to advance and destroy. Sometimes explosive but a moment later it appears that I've dissapeared as I've run and used the situation to my advantage. (Here I say "I" and "you" but mean the players involved).

[yogirode]

thank you for the detail your explanations you helped to clear ,a long time arguement with my training partner,Can you put in a video on muk jong leg positioning

[heartslord]

thanks, it's now on the list. May wait for warmer weather as we train in the main house during the winter, jong is in the workshop and I would like to do several vids for the jong discussing technique. There are a number of great vids on youtube showing the jong being played, I have not seen so far any that break things down.

thx

[kurosakilito]

Awesome. Great explanation. didn't like the karate comment though. They stop at points for a reason. But, the chi sao is so crisp and neat, I love it. I really hate sloppy hands too.

[heartslord]

sounds good. easy though to pin a bong and tan together with pal jong. plus if you have bong & a tan and you roll to a new bong and tan you have to circle (small) the hands to arrive at the new positoning. the less unecessary movement the better. one can still maintain the two hands close to and next to each other. also allows for height differences. conscious movement is the only one that works. We are the guy sitting in the boat and shaking it. not the one standing up and losing balance! :-)

[fanofkimboslice]

Have you ever experinced the guys who roll their bong (wrist directly on the line) to the tan and the with the tan now pointing towards the shoulder of the second player.

Why would they do this ? Is it to create an opening or just bad kungfu ?

[heartslord]

Love to see the example however based on your description it's an interesting point.

Realistically one doesn't want an engaged tan to be directly occupying the center. Both hands should share the center. There are times when blocking you may point the tan toward a shoulder and retracting it toward your shoulder to deal with an advancing blow. Important not to use sideways energy as that leads to easy defeat. Also, if your tan is a hair wide either way the elbow would not be on the center but

[heartslord]

instead remaining plumb with the hand. A tan can turn into a punching hand that would either completely take the center or more likely if the forearm is not blocking but just contacting and controlling less center force would be necessary.

The simple answer is, if your bong is (incorrectly) on the center (as in not sharing with the other hand) and you turn to the shoulder it would be a sideways sloppy turn and not good kung fu.

;-)

[heartslord]

Excellent. Though, are You the Richmond sifu?

[moy4you2]

Richmond, is Moy Tung

Not the Cat skill up-stateNew York school

[mcmcc2]

Another young Moy Yat Sifu in Richmond, Va. Wonderful...simply wonderful.  Continue to the good fight.

[heartslord]

Great comment. The "roll" is a necessary evil to move through these practice positions. The forward energy is most significant as it helps to test the bong, allows for "matching" energy as well as determining whether both players turn on and turn off energy (VERY important). "loose" energy, such as a bong that doesn't go forward but pushes out is detected. Maintaining "wrist-to-wrist" is tested and discerning "beats" of on/off energy for transitions etc. So, this "pushing" is essential.

[trondyne]

Ummm... you're not supposed to "push" on each roll either, the energy should be constant and even, not push, roll, push roll, etc,,,

[GrumblingOldMan]

i agree with this method...thanks for sharing

[butane216]

I like your explanations, I'm no a ving tsun/wing chun guy, but I am martial trained. I teach class tonight, I may play with this concept a bit.

[Exbar10der]

Good thorough explination. Articulate and well instructed.

[heartslord]

Clearly, You TOO are a Master!

(starting to spot a trend here).

Make a great comment, become a great Master, my new policy!

thanks,

tc

[Exbar10der]

Haha...I'm not even close! 7 years down and a lifetime left to go before I reach that goal! But thanks. Your clearity in articualtion for instruction is very good. I am sure your students are very well trained. All the best.

Dominick

Student

Philip Nearing Academy of Wing Chun

Chicago

[YangShengVT]

Good Video nicely explained! Good VingTsun so!

[heartslord]

thanks, I keep trying. :-)

Hope to see you all one day so we can train together and look at the system.

[kungfucritic]

I know your gonna delete my comments but both hands should never occupy the centre line At ALL ! Protecting centre line does not mean you have to occupy it. Instead you need to point to the guys centre off his arms so when they attack you cut across centre otherwise you greatly restrict your flow and power.If your Tan occupies centre then you will get a punch to the face, it should be mid way between your centre and shoulder

[heartslord]

I could more accurately have said "protect" instead of "share as the hands do indeed sit between the centre & the shoulder. But that's obvious from the video. Good points you make, & coincidentally, same points are made in the video. You are like an amazing echo, like a replicant that doesn't know its a replicant. Please guys, spend more time watching and imbibing, THEN make the comments. It's a waste of my time.

Nonetheless, the comments are by someone w very good kung fu.

thanks,

tc

[Tianshou88]

catskills is a great area. thanks for this video very helpful to see the breakdown of positioning. thanks again!

[RagingUtai]

dr phil of wing chun. love it

[heartslord]

that was very moving, spoke of your soul, your dreams, it went beyond the bad kung fu fighter. Hahahaaaaaa. Hope I make it to the tabloids. ROFL

[wingchunandherbs]

I really appreciated the information regarding the center line and where/how you should roll. However, I find that your bon sao is collapsed.

[heartslord]

and here I thought it was my tan that was collapsed.

[heartslord]

and in time, there will be no need for sustained force at all!

sifu tom chi

[devilzmantis]

good basics.  would love to hear you speak of the stance... another must have basics.

[heartslord]

Thank you. Stance video and blindolded video soon coming. The stance is VERY important as we train with many dynamics creating our "tripod" of foundation to move the vertical body but also to be strong while transfering perhaps 1000 lbs of force horizontally. Thanks for your comments! Sifu Tom Chi

[devilzmantis]

Thank you! My teacher explained Wing Chun the same way as you. He was much older and I don't see too many teachers explain it this way. This is absolutely the correct way of explaining Wing Chun.

He made me work on my stance spin and walks for a whole year because I am only 115 lbs. Now, i go to many schools and those that are 150lbs+ can't push me.

Thanks again!

[heartslord]

A flat tan is just an entry ramp for the opponents punch. As we keep our elbows in when we punch a tan needs the integrity of being on abouta 45degree angle to be an effective deterent to incoming techniques. Plus, a tan must respect wrist to wrist not to be easily overcome. Please see my video on "wrist to wrist". You can still slap the short guy on the head for fun (just kidding!).I'll posta "blindfolded" video sometime soon. Thanks for the comments.

Sifu Tom Chi

[camiguin]

first post!!! hey, that was a pretty good demo. how long have you been practising? your explanation of the drills is much better than most that i've heard. if your partner is much shorter than you so that you have to lower the tan wrist to waist level, what is the harm? the short guy still has to remove the tan to do anything first, which is pointed at his neck. by the way how do you address grappling locks and please post your video about the blindfolded rolling.