Jean Philippe Rameau - Les Paladins - Les arts florissants

[LaPopliniere]

...je n'ai rien contre, mais toujours la même mise en scène quel que soit le spectacle, non seulement ça devient lourd, mais en plus il y a toujours un moment où ça ne marchera plus !

[LaPopliniere]

...mais il faut également, je pense, les mêler avec des productions anciennes (cf le magnifique Cadmus et Hermione par Dumestre et Lazar). L'important est simplement que la musique et la mise en scène se comprennent mutuellement. Ce n'est pas le cas ici, simplement parce que le metteur en scène et le chorégraphe (Montalvo et Hervieux) n'ont depuis de nombreuses années jamais innové !! Toujours le même fond bleu et les danseurs nus...

[LaPopliniere]

Pourquoi tant de querelles quant à la mise en scène, et à la chorégraphie...Profitez donc de la musique, c'est ce qu'il y a de meilleur à prendre dans ce que vous avez en face de vous. La redécouverte de l'art lyrique ancien passe certes aussi par la redécouverte des arts de la scène de l'époque. Mais il faut aussi savoir vivre avec son temps et savoir accepter l'innovation. Je pense que des productions modernes comme celle-ci sont effectivement nécessaires...

[turtledream82]

bullshit

[tvnp4]

Mais quand est-ce qu'on va nous délivrer de cette PENSEE UNIQUE de "Mozart en jeans" ??? Aujourd'hui pour être "intelligents" il faut systématiquement faire du lyrique classiques en vêtements contemporains. Et ceux qui demandent le contraire se font traiter de retrogrades. Voilà : le génie de Rameau déglingué par la "culture Playmobil". Mais que c'est... CON !

[haranoe]

@GribeauvalClassique La raison principale est que la danse de l'époque classique ne s'est pas développée au même degré que sa musique... la décadence vient déjà du fait de considérer comme classique une danse décadente, raide, "néoclassique", celle du XIXème siècle, et comme néoclassique une danse qui enfanta ce spectacle qui vous choque.

Les ballets du XVIIIème, orphelins, coupés de leur souche, deviennent le bibelot de n'importe quel "modernisme", et celui qui est trop sincère vous effraie.

[haranoe]

@GribeauvalClassique Rassurez-vous, la mise en scène des siècles passés était aussi ennuyante et ennuyeuse qu'elle l'est aujourd'hui : elle est toujours bien au-dessous des partitions parce qu'elle a tout des conventionnalismes de l'époque et rien de comparable au génie du musicien.

Même dans les ballets néoclassiques les plus classiques, depuis Giselle jusqu'au Lac des Cygnes, la musique très riche la danse trop raide s'ignorent mutuellement.

[yglofmi]

@GribeauvalClassique Pour commencer pardonnez mon français (je suis brésilien) mais je suis tout à fait d'accord avec vous. Le plus choquant pour moi c'est que nous vivons dans une époque où on respecte la partition (parfois avec beaucoup d'érudition et instruments d'époque) mais au même temps on fait tout un cauchemar dans la scène. Pour moi c'est un simptôme de l'eschizophrénie de notre époque.

[dmpetrick]

I find the staging and costumes and nudes all distract from the beauty of the music, and clash discordantly with such sweet, fancy music. This is a nudist Bennetton ad that should be set to Phillip Glass. Appalling! Does Mr. Christie have a nudist bent? I bought Les Indes Galantes and the one poor soul sings the whole first act nude.

[seanchristopherfranc]

they are blindfolded ... they see not the naked posing black people in their midst ... draw your own conclusions ... i say nothing ... except ... i think they could have used a large rusting combine center stage.

[haranoe]

@seanchristopherfranc You seem to have just said everything you had to say.

[seanchristopherfranc]

@haranoeforgive me: i am a crude, unsophisticated american. i could never comprehend this deceptive simplicity that hides such depth of meaning. On the other hand - I enjoyed the music :-)

[Audiolink]

I dont like it when, for example, David McVicar adds random background dancers to distract the audience during long Handel arias... but for some reason i like it in French operas, I think it works. i've watched this video a few times now.... though maybe i just like it cos of the tits and ass on display :p

[norcalrobbie2]

@Audiolink It may be because French opera from this period is extremely heavy on dance. Rameau especially is noted for his mastery of dance music from his time. If you cut out all the ballet interludes in an opera like Zoroastre you wouldn't be left with much. Ballet was FAR less important in the Italian style in which Handel composed his operas. Anyway, I find French baroque more interesting. The Aria-Recit-Aria pattern of Italian opera gets boring. The French were far more innovative.

[haranoe]

@norcalrobbie2 For the French, opera was more than everywhere else a show, and a brilliant and exciting one, that's why dance and staging in general was so important even in the XIXth century, and music just an element of the whole, while in German countries it was more music-oriented (even Wagnerian opera, theoretically the meeting-point of all arts) and in Italy it was more about bravura in the composition and, particularly, execution.

[Audiolink]

@GribeauvalClassique ...j'espere de ne pas vous avoir mal compris car mon francais n'est pas si bon, mais j'imagine que c'est soeulement une version moderne de la meme décadence du temps de Rameau. les artistes et compositeurs d'opera, malgres leur talents et merits, se vends au service de l'espectacle et amusement. l'art n'est pas detruite, elle as un refuge dans les salles de concert , heh

[nanohurtz]

Please help.. need help finding the following collection: "Dardanus (excerpts)"

Music by Antonio Sacchini

Performed by Jean-Paul Fouchécourt (tenor) with Les Arts Florissants

Conducted by William Christie..please reply with link. It's impossible to find :(

[Fuliginosus]

Nice to see naked people on YouTube.

[octoberigrl]

ummm are they naked??!!! Oh my god

[saliere3mozart]

amazing Wonderful

[jmtappenden]

Great comedy.Beautiful music & dance.Allez Rameau.

[LaPrimavera2006]

AHHH!! Dancing statues! Beautiful and bold! Worth the risk! Thank you :)

[iddqds]

I have always enjoyed Rameau and opera but this acting is crazy. Why they have to be naked? I didn`t like that art sorry.

[norcalrobbie2]

I'll never understand why some people are so uptight about the human body.

[baldevis]

Has anybody ever even TRIED to do an authentic baroque production of a baroque-era opera? I'm not able to personally experience the European opera scene except through videos and DVDs, but I can't even find one instance where it's been done. Damn it, I'd at least like to see it done a FEW TIMES. Is THAT so bloody much to ask? Every single production I've come across is all campy and modern and "wink-wink-nudge-nudge-aren't-­I-clever-and-witty-and-aren't-­you-reactionary-and-stupid."

[LazlosPlane]

It would be financially IMPOSSIBLE to reproduce a baroque opera exactly the way it was done. You should read about some of these productions, like Cesti's "Il Pomo D'Oro" Wow. But they can certainly come a lot closer to authenticity.

Not all the "modern," interpretations "wink-wink" or "campy." Some honetly try to create an authentic opera experience in the spirit of the original and I think this one fails miserably as such.

But their production of Les Indes Galantes is a joy.

[carolinahermelina]

this is so amazing!!!

very sensual.

[MaciasEnglish]

Was that Sandrine Piau? She's just awesome!

[Harmonieuniverselle]

Yes it's she :)

[NorbertZF]

So why, again, isn't baroque choreography/costumes used?

I understand that Christie doesn't have much regard for musicology and considers himself merely a "specialist" on the French Baroque. Ok, so then why not use MODERN instruments and a symphony orchestra? His approach is inconsistent as far as being "authentic".

[norcalrobbie2]

Because there's no reason baroque choreography/costumes MUST be used. Again, it's called artistic license. Why does everything with you have to be ultra-modern or ultra-classical? I have my degree and doctorate in musicology and find absolutely nothing wrong with this, whereas people like you feel the need to place all opera under a powdered wig and thereby deter modern audiences from it. God forbid opera be entertaining. Please pull the stick out of your butt.

[eucezinha]

First, a degree and doctorate in musicology does not mean per se that the musical taste and sensibility is developed. I find this very tasteless and distracts from the harmony between the music and the stage. It is overdone.

[norcalrobbie2]

No, his point was Christie's lack of "regard for musicology." As a musicologist, there's nothing wrong with the musical interpretation.

As for the STAGING, you and Norbert seem to forget that opera is a living, breathing art form - Rameau had to update Castor & Pollux, as did Debussy later. Mozart did the same with Don Giovanni, Beethoven with Fidelio/Leonore...  Opera is entertainment, not just science and philology.

[LazlosPlane]

If it means anything I have three degrees in musicology, I have lectured around the world, conducted and performed, and I think this kind of interpretation, as pretty as it is, as humorous, is basically, childish and ultimately, insulting.

I'm afraid that all I hear/see when this kind of "make it modern" "make it relevant" "Oh, just have fun with it" talk is made, it really means something else: either, "We have no insight into the original genius of the piece so let's f**k with it" or...

[LazlosPlane]

... "We have to dumb it down in order to sell tickets, then we can show nudity and balloons, and just say, hey! We're having fun with it! We've made it MODERN,"

It's all bulll**t.

Sorry. But it is.

How about doing a Rigoletto that takes place on Venus 10,000 years in the future? Or a Giuglio Ceseare that takes place in the old West? Makes no sense and distorts so much of the original meaning of the works.

Hey! Everybody let's just do it nude! Like, "Oh, Calcutta!"

[revoltinglibrarian]

I haven't lectured around the world, but I've had sex all over NYC - and I can say that ANY excuse to get a black man's hot round ass into live theater is worth it. Yes, even if I have to bear Rameau's insipid music.

[LazlosPlane]

Hey! Thanks for sharing!

Um, by the way, you may want to check out St. Vincent's Hospital Clinic on 12th Street. They'll charge on a sliding scale and will surely come up with the proper therapy (drugs, etc) to help you and your quite frightening disease.

Don't despair! There IS help!

[CactusHazretleri]

I wish I were more surprised you're from New York, Lazios. There's nothing wrong with making a more conventional version of this, and you're welcome to take your three degrees and do so - I'd enjoy seeing it. I agree that modernizing things for the sake of modernizing them is stupid. It's exactly as stupid as condemning modernizations on principle. We aren't producing these works for their authors, we're making them for ourselves, and accordingly can do so to our own tastes. You may object

[CactusHazretleri]

(cont'd) that it's aesthetically displeasing as you might to any more traditional rendition that uses garish costumes or the wrong colors, or if the singing is not up to par. I happen to find this quite nice, but really, what is this obsession of yours with the "authenticity" of the production? People will doubtless continue to perform opera in the traditonal modes, so all this can do is to enrich an already excellent art form, making it available to those who might otherwise not be interested

[LazlosPlane]

Typical of the spoiled brat, self-centered diletente, I wish I could say your narrow, arrogant reply surprised me.

I actually think very highly of this production, I just don't care for the use of arbitrary male frontal nudity. I find it offensive, ugly, and stupid, yes, peurile.

As I find you.

And, by the way, you can go fuck yourself, from NYC.

[CactusHazretleri]

I'm rather astonished that you're so offended by an artistic choice (albeit one with which you did not agree) to show male nudity, but have no qualms at all about using such vulgar language in an unprovoked manner. Narrow and arrogant? I'm not the one questioning people's sanity for disagreeing with me - though the manner in which you have replied raises serious questions about your character. You're saying everything has to be done exactly the way you want it like you're some sort of

[CactusHazretleri]

(cont'd) opera Gestapo. I was saying that a wide variety of styles might be appropriate and may have some sort of benefit. I would like you to explain, civilly, rationally, and without resorting to ad hominem attacks, how that is self-centered, spoiled, arrogant, or narrow. It doesn't make sense to me. If I've misunderstood you or your views, I'd be glad to listen to your points and respond to them - I might even agree. But why stir up rancor needlessly?  I do associate that with New York.

[LazlosPlane]

I thought I made myself quite clear: male nudity on stage is highly ugly and offensive.

I find gratuitous and rather silly, the point more to shock than to entertain or instruct.

It is insulting.

Okay?

Have you ever been offended by an "artistic" choice? Suppose I wanted to create a work of "art" that depicted your mother sucking the cocks of several men of various ehtnicities, while being fucked anally -- and she's smiling and happy.

Think you'd be offended by THAT?

[lazlocarreidas]

wow, yu're a complete stupid!

[lazlocarreidas]

idiot

[xenigirl]

As someone without a music background of any kind and is just getting into opera "for fun", I think that the choreography/costumes in this particular case is distracting from the music. Nothing wrong with modernizing choreography/costumes in general though.

[Bauldolino84]

I've seen many modernizations of classical operas. Some good, some bad. The Salzburg/Harnoncourt production of Figaro was awful, attempting to cast a dark cloud on a comic opera. The Christie production of Les Indes was intensely modern, but for some reason it worked. This is even more of a drastic modernization, but for some reason it works for me. The plot is ridiculous and it was meant to be gaudy- why not make it so, but in a modern sense?

[BernardProfitendieu]

someone is trying a little too hard, and it shows

[kubinko444]

this is a great performance, I have this DVD and the whole opera takes about 3 hours and I couldn´t stop watching the video!!!

[cyendsj]

can you upload it on rapidshare

[StCorentin]

Sandrine Piau en soliste.

[nicostrauss]

Excelente, orquesta , voces, coreografía