That's the music industry for you, I'm a DJ/Producer in the uk, get a fucking agent like any good musician should, sort a contract out with a percentage and there you go, that's why I get a minimum of £500 per hour, it's not down to clubs or anyone but the musicians. DO IT RIGHT!!
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I think this is a great cause -- it's high time that jazz musicians are respected as the masters that they are -- and guess what -- respect means more than just a word to throw around.
Jazz scene in New York City? Barely holding on. The union is dishonest and robbing the poorest sector of the musical community - the jazz clubs. This pension is for pension members, not all musicians. Think, folks! No environment, no music. Instead of protesting, go to a show or a jam session. Why don't you folks actually go out and pay a cover charge?
willie seems more than a little unhinged and has contradicted himself about 10 times in the below thread. DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
of course i support jazz musicians AND the jazz clubs -- and that's why i'm supporting this petition. it doesn't cost the clubs a dime. I absolutely know that jazz clubs are a labor of love, and because of their love of the music, I'm sure the owners will come around. when they do, i'll be there applauding them.
what's more - yes, the clubs are supporters of the arts. It's jazz! We're not talking Brittany Spears here. Many of these clubs are run by one or two very hard working dedicated people who love this music and work their asses off to make sure there are gigs, jam sessions and other events. Don't paint the 802 Union as a selfless supporter of jazz musicians or of Black people. I mean come one, are you for real? Again, if you love jazz then support the remaining jazz venues. Ditch the union.
Nonetheless, no one makes a living in jazz clubs. The union did not get it repealed and if they did, why? Just so they can have the clubs give it do them? What is this really about? Also, this is not a racial issue - just because the jazz committee is 90% black doesn't mean that they are in touch with what is happening on the current jazz scene. This isn't 1952 with 200 clubs, this is 2009 with 7. Anyone that marches shows that they are completely out of touch with what's happening today.
As a jazz musician who has recently vested, I would say that this thread misses the point: A.) One can vest from teaching gigs or other freelance work with a form called an LS-1
B.) Vesting credits are really inexpensive--about $150 a year. C.) The tax has been around for 60 years--the clubs paid it then, and 802 got it repealed. IT SHOULD go to musicians. D.) The Jazz Committee at 802 is 90% Black: Don't paint the clubs as selfless supporters of the arts. I mean, come on, are you for real?
Estabishment? What are you talking about? No, I'm a professional jazz musician worried about the fact that jazz clubs are rapidly closing. This is not the time for the 802, which has been traditionally racist and anti-jazz, to mount an attack on jazz clubs. It's only going to embarass the union with its greedy and misguided effort. You want to help jazz? Let's get subsidies for concerts and education. The Jazz Foundation is an example of an excellent way to support jazz artists.
Willie is right. Getting vested is hard enough. Getting vested via jazz clubs is impossible which means most of the collected dollars will wind up in the Broadway retirement account. BTW - are you willing to declare what little you make at Small's or 55, fill out a paysheet and pay 802 dues? Couple that with comp & unemployment insurance and the club will buy a karaoke machine in a month. This is plain dumb. STAY HOME TOMORROW!! Now, everyone give me my thumbs down.
It's not as if the jazz club owners are taking this tax abatement money (what little there is) to spend on vacations to Aculpoco. Rather, they're spending it on the increased rents, the increased expenses and, yes, higher pay for jazz artists. All this during a horrible recession. On your protest march be sure to drop by The Village Gate, Bradleys, Visiones, Sweet Rhythm, The Village Corner, The Angry Squire - oh, I forget, those have all gone out of business...
willie you're missing an important point -- the union already lobbied for and got the tax break that would pay for this. so it's coming at no cost to the clubs. have you even read the website?
Of course i've read your misinformative site. No written agreement was ever made with the clubs. There is no legislative power to enforce this. One must wonder what the real reason behind this movement - because if it's to really help jazz musicians then paying into the 802 pension is one of the worst ideas and will help very few artists. Jazz clubs inherently help jazz musicians by providing a place to play, jam and congregate. In this day and age clubs need to be subsidized not attacked!
Long term investment? At the rate the clubs are closing, there will be none left in the 5 years it takes to get vested in the pension! How much revenue could you really generate from this anyway? It's pathetic. Most of the musicians in this video haven't led a club appearance in years and have made their money doing other musical work. This whole thing is hypocritical and foolish and most real jazz musicians don't support this or the 802. If you love jazz, support the remaining venues.
Incredible. There are only a handful of clubs left that are still willing to absorb the financial LOSS of hosting a jazz night. Now we're going to sign petitions, MARCH with our instruments to jazz clubs and harass the owners? Stupid, stupid, stupid. If there is a God it will rain really hard on Sept. 29.
ClickRec -- The funds come from a tax cut that the musicians lobbied for themselves. But you're right -- who needs money, health insurance or retirement when you've got NY's incredibly charitable jazz clubs?
This is a long term investment for the future of all Jazz musicians who live and perform in New York City. Most importantly, it can serve as a model for musicians nation wide. This is about dignity, respect and gratitude for the brilliant people who share their craft with untold numbers of fans, tourists and the like. Anyone you telling you otherwise is selling you something.
Please be careful when considering this issue. It's not as clear cut as the 802 would like you to believe. Collecting money from jazz clubs in this difficult economic situation may only hasten their demise. Sweet Rhythm closed on Thursday. If you love jazz, you should support the venues. The only ones who would really benefit from this would be musicians already vested in the pension: guys who made their money from Broadway or television, not from playing gigs in jazz clubs in New York City.
Finally, some cats telling some truth about this art form and the realities of life. Jazz music is loved by people from all countries. It cuts across the B.S. of politics and goes straight to the soul. Its time the jazz musician to receive some recognition for what they do to keep the US loved and respected throughout the world. Its patriotic!
I don't think it gets any truer or plainer than what the man said: "Musicians should not have to take an oath of poverty in order to make jazz." Jazz is America's musical heritage and is a cultural treasure. Support pensions and health care for the men and women who play it and create it. If jazz were to disappear tomorrow, rock, soul, funk, rap and hip hop would vanish right behind it. A world without jazz is not one I want to live in.
Comment removed
jazz1bro 9 months ago
Comment removed
jazz1bro 9 months ago
That's the music industry for you, I'm a DJ/Producer in the uk, get a fucking agent like any good musician should, sort a contract out with a percentage and there you go, that's why I get a minimum of £500 per hour, it's not down to clubs or anyone but the musicians. DO IT RIGHT!!
jonathanexley1983 2 years ago
ah'
well In that case I guess what I said didnt go down to well with the viewers.
Its kinda sad to see how undervalued the artist is in America. Who knows maybe youll kick up enugh noise that someone will take notice.
sorry about my fisrt reaction RonGrunhut, I just wasnt to happy at the idea of being censored... But now Im more aware of how it works, thanks.
Peace.
Instrumentals4Sale 2 years ago
Wow I had my comment removed because I didnt believe these players would get the justice theyre looking for...
What is that all about?
You delete comments that dont agree with you? Or dont believe you will be successful?
Wow, I supposes there is no point even writting this as ths will no doubt be deleted too.
...Respect to the artists.
Instrumentals4Sale 2 years ago
YouTube automatically ranks text-comments based on the average number of thumbs-up vs. thumbs-down they receive and shows or hides the comment based on this number.
YouTube's default setting allows each comment to receive an average of 5 thumb-down responses before it is automatically hidden by the site. Responses to your comment exceeded the thumbs-down threshold.
RonGrunhut 2 years ago
How many jazz musicians, even FAMOUS jazz musicians, have died penniless? Something's gotta change, and this sounds like a reasonable first step.
MegaSheilaE 2 years ago
I think this is a great cause -- it's high time that jazz musicians are respected as the masters that they are -- and guess what -- respect means more than just a word to throw around.
TheHungryjeff 2 years ago
Village Gate : RIP
Bradleys: RIP
Visiones: RIP
Angry Squire: RIP
Jays: RIP
Village Corner: RIP
Fat Tuesdays: RIP
Sweet Basil/Rhythm: RIP
Jazz scene in New York City? Barely holding on. The union is dishonest and robbing the poorest sector of the musical community - the jazz clubs. This pension is for pension members, not all musicians. Think, folks! No environment, no music. Instead of protesting, go to a show or a jam session. Why don't you folks actually go out and pay a cover charge?
williethelion6 2 years ago 4
The union isn't robbing anyone. The club owners are robbing the musicians.
ConcernedMusicians 2 years ago
I would like to reiterate, and Youtube is a pathetic forum but really the only place to post any kind of contrary opinion, the following:
1) 90% of the musicians at the protest have never done a gig in any of the clubs they are petitioning
2) Targeting the Blue Note as somehow the "evilest" jazz club is ridiculous. There's a reason the top artists play there: they pay the best.
3) All of the organizers have a huge pension from work other than jazz.
4) Worst sounding "When The Saints" ever!
williethelion6 2 years ago 4
Hey Superbone - I'm not unhinged. Please don't be so dishonest.
That march today was a joke and another shameful display by the union.
By the way, when's the next gig your playing at one of the clubs in town? I'd love to hear your music.
williethelion6 2 years ago 5
Jazz is THE American music, and it's a shame that we don't treat our own musicians as well as Europe does. It's time for a change!
1967jazzcat 2 years ago
willie seems more than a little unhinged and has contradicted himself about 10 times in the below thread. DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
of course i support jazz musicians AND the jazz clubs -- and that's why i'm supporting this petition. it doesn't cost the clubs a dime. I absolutely know that jazz clubs are a labor of love, and because of their love of the music, I'm sure the owners will come around. when they do, i'll be there applauding them.
superbone100 2 years ago
what's more - yes, the clubs are supporters of the arts. It's jazz! We're not talking Brittany Spears here. Many of these clubs are run by one or two very hard working dedicated people who love this music and work their asses off to make sure there are gigs, jam sessions and other events. Don't paint the 802 Union as a selfless supporter of jazz musicians or of Black people. I mean come one, are you for real? Again, if you love jazz then support the remaining jazz venues. Ditch the union.
williethelion6 2 years ago 5
Nonetheless, no one makes a living in jazz clubs. The union did not get it repealed and if they did, why? Just so they can have the clubs give it do them? What is this really about? Also, this is not a racial issue - just because the jazz committee is 90% black doesn't mean that they are in touch with what is happening on the current jazz scene. This isn't 1952 with 200 clubs, this is 2009 with 7. Anyone that marches shows that they are completely out of touch with what's happening today.
williethelion6 2 years ago 6
As a jazz musician who has recently vested, I would say that this thread misses the point: A.) One can vest from teaching gigs or other freelance work with a form called an LS-1
B.) Vesting credits are really inexpensive--about $150 a year. C.) The tax has been around for 60 years--the clubs paid it then, and 802 got it repealed. IT SHOULD go to musicians. D.) The Jazz Committee at 802 is 90% Black: Don't paint the clubs as selfless supporters of the arts. I mean, come on, are you for real?
mrfivebyfiveful 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Dont hold your breathe, what you are asking for in my opinion is at odds with the nature capitalism.
Sure jazz players deserve benifits, everyone does but here is the answer I expect you guys will ultimatly get...
"You want a pention? Go take one out yourself."
Justice is the enemy of capitalism, you ask Capitalism for justice ...Capitalism replies 'How much will it cost?'.
Peace,
L
Instrumentals4Sale 2 years ago
these musicians have given so much... it's the least we can do!
jonguitarjazz 2 years ago
Hey williethelion6: Establishment much?
pmolloy4 2 years ago
Estabishment? What are you talking about? No, I'm a professional jazz musician worried about the fact that jazz clubs are rapidly closing. This is not the time for the 802, which has been traditionally racist and anti-jazz, to mount an attack on jazz clubs. It's only going to embarass the union with its greedy and misguided effort. You want to help jazz? Let's get subsidies for concerts and education. The Jazz Foundation is an example of an excellent way to support jazz artists.
williethelion6 2 years ago 9
Willie is right. Getting vested is hard enough. Getting vested via jazz clubs is impossible which means most of the collected dollars will wind up in the Broadway retirement account. BTW - are you willing to declare what little you make at Small's or 55, fill out a paysheet and pay 802 dues? Couple that with comp & unemployment insurance and the club will buy a karaoke machine in a month. This is plain dumb. STAY HOME TOMORROW!! Now, everyone give me my thumbs down.
ClickRec 2 years ago
Awesome video!
489sammy 2 years ago
It's not as if the jazz club owners are taking this tax abatement money (what little there is) to spend on vacations to Aculpoco. Rather, they're spending it on the increased rents, the increased expenses and, yes, higher pay for jazz artists. All this during a horrible recession. On your protest march be sure to drop by The Village Gate, Bradleys, Visiones, Sweet Rhythm, The Village Corner, The Angry Squire - oh, I forget, those have all gone out of business...
williethelion6 2 years ago 3
willie you're missing an important point -- the union already lobbied for and got the tax break that would pay for this. so it's coming at no cost to the clubs. have you even read the website?
superbone100 2 years ago
Of course i've read your misinformative site. No written agreement was ever made with the clubs. There is no legislative power to enforce this. One must wonder what the real reason behind this movement - because if it's to really help jazz musicians then paying into the 802 pension is one of the worst ideas and will help very few artists. Jazz clubs inherently help jazz musicians by providing a place to play, jam and congregate. In this day and age clubs need to be subsidized not attacked!
williethelion6 2 years ago
Long term investment? At the rate the clubs are closing, there will be none left in the 5 years it takes to get vested in the pension! How much revenue could you really generate from this anyway? It's pathetic. Most of the musicians in this video haven't led a club appearance in years and have made their money doing other musical work. This whole thing is hypocritical and foolish and most real jazz musicians don't support this or the 802. If you love jazz, support the remaining venues.
williethelion6 2 years ago
Incredible. There are only a handful of clubs left that are still willing to absorb the financial LOSS of hosting a jazz night. Now we're going to sign petitions, MARCH with our instruments to jazz clubs and harass the owners? Stupid, stupid, stupid. If there is a God it will rain really hard on Sept. 29.
ClickRec 2 years ago
ClickRec -- The funds come from a tax cut that the musicians lobbied for themselves. But you're right -- who needs money, health insurance or retirement when you've got NY's incredibly charitable jazz clubs?
superbone100 2 years ago
This is a long term investment for the future of all Jazz musicians who live and perform in New York City. Most importantly, it can serve as a model for musicians nation wide. This is about dignity, respect and gratitude for the brilliant people who share their craft with untold numbers of fans, tourists and the like. Anyone you telling you otherwise is selling you something.
pmolloy4 2 years ago
Please be careful when considering this issue. It's not as clear cut as the 802 would like you to believe. Collecting money from jazz clubs in this difficult economic situation may only hasten their demise. Sweet Rhythm closed on Thursday. If you love jazz, you should support the venues. The only ones who would really benefit from this would be musicians already vested in the pension: guys who made their money from Broadway or television, not from playing gigs in jazz clubs in New York City.
williethelion6 2 years ago 3
Finally, some cats telling some truth about this art form and the realities of life. Jazz music is loved by people from all countries. It cuts across the B.S. of politics and goes straight to the soul. Its time the jazz musician to receive some recognition for what they do to keep the US loved and respected throughout the world. Its patriotic!
Doumbeck 2 years ago
I don't think it gets any truer or plainer than what the man said: "Musicians should not have to take an oath of poverty in order to make jazz." Jazz is America's musical heritage and is a cultural treasure. Support pensions and health care for the men and women who play it and create it. If jazz were to disappear tomorrow, rock, soul, funk, rap and hip hop would vanish right behind it. A world without jazz is not one I want to live in.
raposofan 2 years ago 9