Riveted Sen. Bunning Catches Z's During Health Care Debate

[userid8765]

He's dead!

[GretchenDawntreader]

Right, there might not be enough doctors, so clearly tens of millions of Americans, your fellow citizens, should do without affordable health care.

Always classy, Kyl.

[Zakdayak]

This talk is all over the place. Visfen just ignored my historical facts (how the S&L crisis began) to go back to his talking points about the bailout. Bailouts always happen when you deregulate. That was the point of the examples, which he asked for-when he thought I was just talking out of my neck on market fuck-ups. Now, he skips Enron and the S&L's because there was only one motivation that brought on deregulation in those cases. GREED. So he goes back to the current mess to avoid it.

[jedisenior]

@Zakdayak

Sorry man, I arrived late to this discussion, so I missed that bit. I was just trying to appeal to common sense!

[Zakdayak]

Good luck with that! Here's a guy that is arguing for unfettered markets, so to be consistent his only form of correction is bankruptcy. We tried that. It was called the panic of 1893, Great Depression, S&L, Enron, etc...what will take for this guy to wake up?

[jedisenior]

@Zakdayak

Yeah and it's also called destroying ordinary peoples lives. This guy clearly has no moral center!

[Zakdayak]

(continued from below) SO THAT THE BANKS COULD COMPETE WITH CREDIT UNIONS! They payed the gov't to lessen the rules and as a result created a disaster. That's what I fucking mean by market fuck ups. Now, go back to your free market religion, to worship the almighty dollar and let us adults talk.

[Visfen]

The real bastard here is the bail out, be it the FDIC or Fannie and Freddy, or the "regular" sort. Because when the industry knows that the government is just going to prop these companies up, rescue them, they don't regulate themselves. When you basically tell the entire market "gamble all you want, we'll save you", that creates a disaster.

How is it a market fuck up that the government insure the players?

As it is now the FED has made the USD into the carry trade. You're screwed!

[nicojx]

God these comments make me feel better. Still some sane people out there. Quite a few it seems.

[publicgood]

At least Bunning is keeping his mouth shut, unlike the other Republicans

[squidb8]

They? How about something deeper. One congressman sleeping may be part of a block, albeit large block, but there might be those who have legitimate concerns.

To lump the two groups together would mean missing something, that could become an important problem, that both sides will jump on as "I told you so". I expect political commentators to be a little more savy then that.

[asphyxiafeeling]

pretty embarrassing but eh who knows what his schedule is? maybe the bro is just "tired" of all the "bullshit" so he caught a few Zs.

[gisforgary]

bunning has his medicare and i am sure hes got scripts -- this vid is proof. why would anyone on as many meds as he is on want reform?

[inmyforties]

which begs the question, rick, how naive really is your question?

[bboris92]

It's supposed to be Zs, not Z's.

[AtheistOnTheEdge]

If he was a Democrat, the dickheads at Fox News would be having a field day.

[Z200a]

Exactly. Glenn Beck would pop another 20 million capillaries in his ever-withering brain.

[macks3123]

Why is this News? We already know they are just there for the Benefits of being in GOV. oh I forgot, rather than Educate us about something substantial, they'd rather rather clobber us with Congressional Gossip. No Child Left Behind.

[junkforkaryn]

the delay might actually be helping the reform movement as we get more and more of these damaging images and people get more time to "wake up" to the lies and misinformation.

[WKaliberr]

out taxpayer money at work

[JBeatty17]

We're paying this guy to sleep on the job?  This is worse than the cops who were busted playing Wii on the taxpayer's dime!

[MooseOfReason]

WKaliberr, I'd rather have all of them sleeping than spending hundreds of billions of dollars on wasteful programs.

[FullOfFail]

let's fire his ass ;)

[MooseOfReason]

He could be reading something.

[redblur78]

Yes, if it's written inside his eyelids.

[tankwfw]

it happens. no big deal. I don't think it plays badly for Republicans. I think they're inability to compromise plays bad for them

[terrence0258]

For all the people who think Rick Sanchez was reaching when he questioned Republicans passion for reform you may be right. But if you remember it was Republicans that came back from the August recess saying that Americans wanted the entire process to start over. It is the Republicans that spread lies about death panels, tax payer funded abortions and coverage for non citizens. It was Republicans that failed to add anything to the debate besides a desire to get into the pockets of trial lawyers.

[VeryEvilPettingZoo]

This obviously isn't good, but it's not a big deal either. We're all human beings - even Republicans (though sometimes I wonder...)

[freedom8758]

fucking disgrace

[NoCensorshipYT]

Ruth Ginsburg sleep at the Surpreme Court hearings ALL THE TIME!

Sen Robert BYRD?

Nice try RICK JACKASS!

[terrence0258]

Two wrongs don't make it right.

[EmperorAtahualpa]

It's quite a cheap shot to cast a Republican's commitment into doubt just because he falls asleep during a debate. If you think you can score with this kind of rhetoric, you're no better than FOX News.

[LastPosterStanding]

Yeah all we need to do is look at the previous 8 years in which they did nothing to reform health care and used their time to run the country into the ground.

[flyyspit]

That is part of the reason why those people should be put out to pasture at age 70....

[ehkinoh]

Cut the man some slack...

He's tired from lugging around all that insurance company cash that's filled up his pockets.

[Smartassawhip]

Howard Dean just sent out a new petiton and is hoping to get 250,000 signatures in favor of the public option. I have it in the comment section of my profile. Please take a moment to sign it and then pass it on. Thank you.

[lamouchemorte]

He probably stayed up too late getting dominated by his hooker.

[njcarlos1]

Love the logic Sanchez. Sometimes when I see a student sleeping in class, I wonder... how serious is this entire class about learning?

[PTurchan1]

Good point, thank you - thought, I am troubled by a Senator sleeping.

[oliverleehornbake]

I am too. And it doesn't matter if it was a Republican or Democrat. The fact that ANY senator was sleeping during a speech, no matter what the subject is, is a problem

[oldtownkid]

well, if the class if full of students that didn't do anything about the subject for the last 8 years I guess it is only logical to connect one student taking a nap as a sample of what the whole class is about.

[njcarlos1]

Definitely not going to argue for the Republicans, but you're out of place arguing for the Democrats who are equally idiotic. Democrats have actually been holding majority status for the last 3 years (including 09), with 09 as the beginning of a filibuster-proof majority. Interestingly enough, they still won't do anything substantial about reforming the health care system and won't pass a key agenda point for a Democratic President: a public option. Incompetence isn't party-specific.

[TrollBuster9090]

That's not incompetnece. It's corruption and spinelessness, and it's endemic to both parties. The problem is the way campaigns are financed, with business lobby groups and stealth business lobby groups (PACs) having more influence over Congress than oridnary voters.

Campaign finance rules need to be changed, but with the recent (and STUPID) Supreme Court decision, the problem is going to get WORSE, not better.

[Pleblian]

"but with the recent (and STUPID) Supreme Court decision, the problem is going to get WORSE, not better. "

You're right, and the media outlets aren't paying it enough attention, where it should be the most news of our time.

SCOTUS hasn't got to the meet of the "McCain, Feingold law yet but ya, it's well on way.

NYT article on the matter, if anybody is interested. Google: "Justices Loosen Ad Restrictions in Campaign Finance Law"

[LarcheOsborne]

We have too many blue dog democrats in Congress for real health care reform. We always have.

[TheIllegit]

That's hardly evidence of sleeping.. unless you see his head start to nod over, then jerk back up or something then he could easily just be looking downward given the camera angle.

That said, I could care less even if he was sleeping.

[TrollBuster9090]

Did you ever see that 60 minutes documentary on the useless farm co-op officer who used to sleep in his office? People would make appointments to see him, his sec would tell them he was busy, then they'd go around and look through the window and see him asleep.

When Ed Bradley confronted him about it he claime he was really "concentrating on mathematical figures with his eyes closed."

So there you go. Bunning was just calculating the net cost of the program ahead of the CBO estimates.

[aphexmandelbrot]

Congratulations, you have the only relevant comment on the first page.

[fl00ders]

So, you care?

Thanks for clearing that up.

[iknewitalready]

The senator was not sleeping, he was in deep meditation.

[TrollBuster9090]

He was channeling Dick Cheney.

[DeletedDelusion]

Well, politicians most of the time already know what they will- (have to) vote, so the theater before the vote is of no relevance to them anyway....

[iknewitalready]

there is no feeling as good as sleeping at work.

[iknewitalready]

aw....the sleeping senator.

i wonder what his dream was.......hmmm...that is hard to figure it out ...........maybe dreaming of derailing and obstructing of health care reform.

sweet dreams, senator!

[daddydon48]

The only thing that keep Republicans awake is Taxes and Guns. Hell they even sleep in church instead of being honest as in "I don't really believe this crap, just putting up a front, rather be home watching football"

[Tokkemon]

They're not serious at all, seconded.

[Visfen]

Maybe because they keep changing the bill every other day so it is impossible to know what is in it.

Reform? How is obama care serious reform to begin wiht "uurgh, more government. Yup that'll solve it" even though that is the same bs we've been trying for 30 years.

Can somebody address the question? I don't want either party to line the pockets of big business, but that seems to be what they are fighting for. Let's discredit them and come with a free market solution that benefits the customer

[Zakdayak]

Visfen, the entire system is privatized. Even Medicare subcontracts with Blue Cross, and Medicare D (Republicans with George W.Bush thought that up) is a program which pays what Pharma charges, no negotiation whatsoever. And yet it sucks out loud. If the "market" was going to deliver, as it has been promising for those 30 years you cite, it would have by now.

[Visfen]

What does it matter if it is private if it is so extremely regulated that the owner can't do anything outside what the government mandates? You know the difference between fascism and socialism? Mousilini expressed it as "why would we need to own the means of production when we can simply force the private industry to do what we want under the barrel of a gun".

That's what has been going on for 30 years. The system is already more government controlled than most in the world.

[nicojx]

I've never heard greater bollocks. There's no Western democracy that has a less state-controlled, or worse, healthcare system than the US. On a global scale, you might be right. Countries such as Afghanistan, Ethiopia or Congo probably do have a less controlled system. But I wouldn't be sure.

[Visfen]

What do you meassure by then? Because I would argue that the US system is much more regulated than that of Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand or Germany.

For instance, in Maryland you are mandated as an insurance to cover massage therapy because the chiropractor lobby has lobbied with the state legislator.

That is not covered in Sweden, where I live, so I would argue that your system is more regulated than ours. You just use fascism instead of socialism as a means to govern with the state.

[nicojx]

What utter shite. First of all, since when does regulation equal fascism. Regulation makes sense whenever markets don't or can't regulate themselves. Try reading a bit about the history of food regulation. The same thing applies to healthcare.

As for different countries, you can't measure the extent of regulation by what is mandated to be covered. I would argue greater regulation is about who can be excluded, and that is the crucial issue. Where is the Western world is that as easy as in the US?

[Visfen]

Since Mussolini defined what fascism is. Fascism is when government doesn't need to take over the private industry, because they are holding them all at gunpoint, forcing them to do whatever the state decides.

Markets can always regulate themselves. As you yourself suggest, read about food regulation, in particular, read about FDR and crop burning.

If you're talking about standards, there already is such a thing as a certificate in the private sector, that works just fine.

[Visfen]

What you don't seen to understand that in these other countries where the government covers these people it is at the cost of something else, it is ALWAYS at the cost of something else. The general level of care and accessibility becomes much lower in order to keep costs down and still cover everyone.

If the politicans are really good they transfer the cost of the medical coverage to areas of innovation or growth, where it is so much more easy to hide.

Ready HenryHazlit,Economics in one lesson

[Zakdayak]

You show all the signs of someone in denial, Visfen. Despite the fact that the industry pays Congress millions of dollars (Cuz it LIKES to be regulated? HELLO?) to write the laws THEIR way, despite the fact that doctors choose expensive tests without gov't mandate, and despite the fact that premiums remain high in places with less gov't regulation (here in CA we decreased lawsuits and yet healthcare is STILL expensive), no it's the gov'ts fault! And WTF do I need a lecture on Fascism for?

[Visfen]

Every regulation is an opportunity for lobbying, sometimes it is even the direct result of previous lobbying. Yes, some parts of the industry LOVE regulation, particularly big players, as they can afford the extensive work it sometimes requires.

Doctors would not chose expensive test if there were limits on the payers pockets, if they did, the customers would go elsewhere.

[Visfen]

In Maryland disaster insurance is even illegal, that spikes prices tremendously. The largest problem is that in this moronic system is the pervese incentive in the tax code to pay for health care trough employeers.

Clearly I need to lecture you what the principle of fascism is, but nevermind that. Read what Mussolini has said about his philosophy, it is very much in line with what I am telling you. If it is not, point out what you think is wrong.

[Zakdayak]

I have a degree in political science. Regulation is no more fascist than the Fire Department is communist (most work free, and taxes support the rest for the benefit of all) or traffic lights are dictatorial. What do you when you approach a stop sign, assert your rights as an individual and ignore it? Gimme a break dude. Fascism is the combination of the corporatist agenda and right-wing gov't. It has nothing to do with giving you healthcare as the corporatist agenda is the exact opposite!

[Visfen]

Regulation, taken to the extreme, is the principle of fascism. That's the point I was making. Are you disagreeing with that? Want to prove that political science is a useless major? Go ahead

You're suggesting traffic rules are regulations? You're all over the place. No, that is different as we sadly don't have private roads but public ones. It is different because the owner, the one taking the risk, should decide the rules. To further that, we need some restrictions if we are going to have FDIC

[Visfen]

Seems you have illdefined fascism in very much the same way that other boneheads do. Corporatist agenda? There's no such things, there is such a thing as some companies agenda, but not as a collective - the market is in competition. That is further a reason why government should stay out of it

The free market is like evolution and we're the natural selection, whenever government gets involved it distorts the natural selection

The current health care system will not be helped by more goernment

[Zakdayak]

DE NILE...not just a river anymore. No matter how bad the market fucks us UP THE ASS, (S&L's, derivatives, tax havens, high premiums, pollution) there are always some people who want it harder...OK, bend over some more Visfen.

[Visfen]

Lol, you're a child.

How did the market fuck up? Explain that you imbecile and maybe we have something to start with.

Do you even understand what the market is? How it functions? It's you and me, everyone, to say it has failed is like suggesting everyone is a moron.

This isn't a fuck up of the market, get a fucking education instead of spouting your abject nonsense and being an ignorant tool. It's quite pathetic, and the worst is, you run in packs here on youtube.

Morons...

[Zakdayak]

You called me a bonehead before I said anything "child" -ish. Doesn't really matter what I say because you have a closed mind and it's quite made up. You needn't resort to the language of your religion "How the Market works." LOL. Don't make me laugh. Politics is about money and power, and that's what the healthcare "debate" is about. The industry is not going to blow 250 Mill because they're interested in Free Markets, and THERE ARE NO CONSUMERS because healthcare is not a commodity, dumbass.

[Zakdayak]

As for an explanation of market fuck-ups, I gave you examples. Like the S& L fiasco, or say Enron fraud on California Utility users. A lot of people have blamed the current fiasco on gov't interference (it was the banks that wanted a lowering of rates and loan qualifications and hired people like Rick Davis to lobby FOR IT) but the aforementioned scandals had nothing to do with gov't interference. FERC refused to control Enron and the gov't lessened loan rules on behalf of banks ...

[Visfen]

No, you gave me your misconceptions and an example of popular misunderstanding of the market forces.

The savings and loan scandal is rooted in the FDIC insurance. If you ensure up to 200 000 of deposits and depositors have no reins whatsoever they can basically run amok with risk taking - and they did. It is basically just like Fannie and Freddie, a government player that gives hand outs end up distorting the market.

And of course, the FED gave tons of easy credit back then too.

[Visfen]

Banks rates are related to one of these hand outs, again the FDIC is in play.When the government gives out these ridiculous insurances then there needs to be reins on industry. BUT they should never be a player in the first place, the FDIC is a fucking terrible idea because you can't have the government working as an insurance, they don't know how to, they get corrupted and manipulated

Enron was made possible because of changes in accounting with market to market presentations. Again regulation

[Visfen]

Closed mind? Your responses consist of internet jargon and campaign slogans.

You talk about the free market. THIS IS NOT A FREE MARKET. For 30 years the government has been a major player and before that they have been involved since the beginning of the 20th century. It all started with mandating everyone to get AMA licensing, putting a union in charge of all the supply of workforce. Since then it has been a steep down hill.

Health care is a commodity, just like any other service, "dumbass"

[jedisenior]

@Visfen

"Corporatist agenda? There's no such things, there is such a thing as some companies agenda, but not as a collective - the market is in competition. That is further a reason why government should stay out of it"

LOL. Tell that to Microsoft and Intel genius!

Just how stupid are you?

[Visfen]

"LOL. Tell that to Microsoft and Intel genius!"

Microsoft and Intel? Huh? That's two companies, what does that have to do with the entire industry and a concept applied to them all? Why those to in any sense?

"Just how stupid are you? "

IQ of 143, double majoring in Economics and Science. Market wiz, made 110% over the past 12 months, will be able to retire before I graduate if I keep that up.

How about you? Have you read even one book about economics in your life?

[Visfen]

I very much doubt that.

Yes, I deny it.

Because with greed becomes fearfulness, you want to make money, but you also care that you keep yours.

If you really believed what you are saying you would sell all your belongings, then go to Las Vegas and gamble, but you don't, because you're fearful as well as greedy.

Greed is actually a god thing, it is what motivates indiivudals to act freely in the interest of others (read invisible hand).

The problem is when the government is backing you.

[jedisenior]

@Visfen

And I very much doubt yours, but what does that prove?

I'm greedy? How do you figure that!

[Visfen]

Yes, you are, you're human are you not? I assume you're not having a realization this very second that you should sell all your stuff and give it to charity, then live on the streets? No, you're not going to do that?

Then you're greedy. I am greedy to. Everyone is.

But because of the invisisble hand, in a free market, when we want to get richer we make everyone else so as well. That is the beautiful thing about the free market.

Please read this: Henry Hazlitt - Economics in one lesson.

[jedisenior]

@Visfen

Look that's in an ideal world. Bank's and huge corporations need regulation, because of human greed. You seem to assume the people in power will simply do the right thing!

[Visfen]

"The right thing", if they don't do the right thing, they lose their money, and they wont be able to do as large bets in the future.

This is what the free market is when it is free, it is the thing that sorts out the people who shouldn't have that kind of responsibility, it rewards those that should.

You're not even seemingly trying to come of as rational. You're missing so many elements here, you are not explaining what is happening, how the market did wrong.

Spouting campaign slogans...

[jedisenior]

@Visfen

"if they don't do the right thing, they lose their money, and they wont be able to do as large bets in the future."

Hello!, that's exactly what they did, hence the situation the worlds in now. If you can't see this, it's not my problem.

[Visfen]

If somebody told you they would bail you out whatever you did, that you would never have to lose, wouldn't you gamble?

I wouldn't blame you, that would be the rational thing to do. When you distort the invisible hand, that changes, it becomes destructive

Further, I discussed the carry trade a bunch down? (Learn what it is) Because of the Feds actions the USD has become the new carry trade. That is a fine example of how government policy creates these bubbles. (look up Austrian business cycle)

[jedisenior]

@Visfen

I agree with you on the bailouts. If proper regulation had been in palce, none of this would have happened. Regulation is there to prevent ordinary people being exploited. Not everybody is a financial wizard, you know?

[Visfen]

You keep coming back to regulations. Well, yeah, if you're going to rescue everybody you need to change the rules of betting, but it is easier to just not rescue everybody in the first place.

The governments job is not to bail losers (in the market) out, in fact the entire existence of a state could only be justified by it protecting private property rights and contracts agreements - that's it. Other than that, it becomes destructive an immoral.

You want to help people? Let the market function

[Visfen]

Without bail outs there would be no justification for regulation in the first place. The market can sort everything out on it's own, and the spontaneous order of the market creates the best result for all of us. It is a beautiful thing actually, how a system build on the drive of individuals can end up benefiting all of mankind, but that is the genius of it. It is like a delicate eco-system. Personally I am amazed by it, and I look at the true free system as a work of art, I marvel at its beauty

[jedisenior]

@Visfen

You talk about it as if it has a mind of it's own!

These are peoples lives we're talking about here, they deserve to be protected!

[jedisenior]

@Visfen

Ah yes, yet another "no regulation" is king believer. You do realise, it was lack of regulation which landed the world in the financial mess we're in to day? Without regulation, greed takes over, and the results we see today, are inevitable.

[Visfen]

There's no end to you people.

But it wasn't lack of regulation that caused this crisis. The only entity that needed heavier regulation was the government entity Fannie May and Freddie Mac.

Other than that regulation was a major cause of this problem, (the premier cause is the FED) because things like the CRA of 1997 forced bad loans on banks. During the Bush administration, for instance in 2003, further additions was added.

Greed comes with caution, you need to read some economics 101.

[jedisenior]

@Visfen

"The only entity that needed heavier regulation was the government entity Fannie May and Freddie Mac."

You just admitted more regulation was required! Point proven. And for your information, there were a lot more involved than just the Americans. Pull your head out of your ass!

[nicojx]

Man, you need to not read some economics, but get out and get a life. Your ideological bullshit is the stuff that got us in the mess we're in. You think it's ok because it's good for growth when people are dying without healthcare. I say your theory is shit when that happens. And any economic theory that's based on devaluing people for growth misses the point. Do you get that?

[Visfen]

No it's not, and you would know that if you "read some economics".

"Good for growth" That has nothing to do with it, and frankly the suggestion isn't very substantial, come with something worthwhile instead.

Devaluing people? What is devaluing people is refusing them the opportunity and choice of their own. Why should women be forced to pay a premium for prostate cancer? Why should people not be allowed to get longer deals on their insurance? Free to choose means better choices.

[zidmt]

They are not serious at all, Their whole agenda is to stonewall, block and prevent millions of American citizens getting low cost healthcare, yet those pricks get years and years of low cost government healthcare.

[jakehr3]

first pwn