Its amazing to me how much chemistry Mary Louis Parker and Justin Kirk have without ever coming in contact with one another throughout the whole entire play. It takes two extremely talented and passionate people to pull that off. This is why throughout the play I never realize that they had never met because it feels like they are with each other every step of the way, just like Tony Kushner had written it.
@yetzer19 i know. the only reason harper is messed up is because of joe and their marriage, she wasn't sick like she is now before him..prior is sick and dying and lou has the gaul to say he loves him but he adandoned him to "save himself". harper has the characters in her dreams as joe is not there for her, prior has the voice in his head and thankfully in real life his friend belize who cares enough to be there more than his partner of 4 years. it's fitting how joe and lou end up together.
I love Patrick Wilson, I hate the character he plays. Joe married her knowing he was gay ... Joe is a sick individual. To put someone in that position, its just wrong...
Perhaps when society dosen't insist that a gay person either conform or be ostraciszed, gays will not feel the need to marry so they can fit in. It is wrong to put a person in a situation like Joe did. Its also wrong to make a person feel so desperate that they must hide.
@rdmkb1 I dont think gays want to marry so they can fit in. fit into what? Husband's or wives coming out arent that dramatic as it was on TV... I think Joe cheating on his wife is more fucked up. Joe hid himself, as he said, only to "save" her ...
You ofcourse can draw your own conclusions as to why a gay person would marry. There are various reasons people do what they do. However I have known men & women who marry to please parents, family, peers. Then they find they cannot continue the charade. This was more common some yrs ago, although not many. Some even do it because religion tells them to do it, and teaches them guilt. Even heterosexuals sometimes feel pressure to settle down and get married to please others.
@Pooknottin but how do you KNOW she knew. aren't you supposed to trust who you love to tell you the truth even if you have doubts? she had emotional problems, for all she knew she could have been making it up in her mind. you cant blame her or honestly think its her fault- that just ridiculous. Joe and society are responsible for what happened, not harper... she was the innocent one
I've had emotional problems. I've been sectioned. However, she does say that she knew he was homosexual. Therefore she cannot be blameless. As they say, 'it takes two to tango'.
At the risk of seeming terribly dead-pan, it's an expression. It means that this is a situation which requires both parties to accept responsibility for the outcome.
@Pooknottin no i know, i just didnt feel like writing a long comment; i meant that she really didnt do anything wrong; she wasnt part of the proverbial tango in my mind
While I appreciate you hold that opinion, I'm still waiting for you to justify it. She went into the relationship with her eyes open knowing that his feelings for her were what they were and knowing that there was something else wrong. That's my justification for thinking she is also responsible.
@Pooknottin my justification is that though she might have SUSPECTED it she never had any admission from joe SO she chose to TRUST him which is the basis for a good marraige; she was so in love with him that she trusted him. Therefore, not her fault. She was being a good wife and was so in love with him that she wanted to believe him. She was also emotionally unstable, probably long before all of this AND he made her think she was being ridiculous so AGAIN she believed HIM... his fault. not hers
@Pooknottin Okay well all I'm gonna say is obviously OBVIOUSLY you have never been in love because to trust some one goes with love and you cant HELP it that you CHOOSE to trust your partner yes, but I should have said that LOVE chooses for you; im done with this conversation lol your opinion my opinion; opinions are like assholes everyone has one so I'm done trying to justify my opinion to you b/c i dont have to ;)
Oh, I have been in love. It hurt. It fairly destroyed a large portion of my youth actually, but I certainly don't blame the person I was in love with for the pain.
No, trust comes is vital in a loving relationship. Unrequited love does not require trust at all.
You're right about one thing - you're stating an opinion. However, not to justify your opinions is to show that you have no real way to support them. It's a show of willful ignorance and a weakness of conviction.
@Pooknottin stop being so annoying! i just justified it; im saying i dont need to jusify it further to you for it to be valid! Everyone has an opinion. Mine is right in my mind and is actually the same as a lot of people's because I have been agreed with a lot. You just keep ignoring what I say or turning it around because you feel threatened. I'm tired of this conversation so kindly bugger off and leave it! Jesus Christ almighty! Leave it alone already you're getting annoying!
Y'know there are many people who hold unfounded and unjustified opinions. Popularity is hardly a gague of validity. You need only look to history to see this bear-out. If my attempts to point out what I see wrong in your perspective have annoyed you I appologise, but as far as feeling threatened is concerned I have no reason to. You on the other hand seem to be becoming rather agitated, so I will refrain.
@Pooknottin no. Im annoyed because you wont just LET it go. You obviously feel threatened by my opinion because you cant let me HAVE MY OWN opinion without bullying me into succumbing to yours... which I'm not. ,so thank you for kindly fucking off :) I appreciate it.. finally
Y'know, you're not actually compelled to reply, so I have to ask myself the question, 'who's really not willing to let it go?' Fyi, I don't just fuck off because you say thankyou and I am not bullying you. If I was bullying you I would be pointing out personal flaws in you, not what I think is wrong about a particular opinion. What you're doing here is trying to make out that you're a victim to win an arguement that isn't actually happening. It's called pathos.
@Pooknottin ok awesome u WIN cuz obviously you know everything thats going on in my mind.. OBVIOUSLY lol cuz ur like miss cleo over there or something. You have an AMAZING grasp on everything I'm thinking :) good job... sarcasm
I'm not trying to win anything, nor am I claiming to know everything about you. I'm simply standing my ground until you come up with a real justification for your demonization of a fictional character. I also made some observations about the nature of your attempts to 'win'. Is it possible that you're not used to contention?
Firstly you're talking about a relationship you know nothing about. Then you're assuming a heterosexual relationship (patently absurd given the vid this is posted on) and that I'm a man. Actually I'm gender dysphoric and bisexual. Also to note - I never said someone left me, or that my love was unrequited did I?
@Pooknottin I dont need to know anything about your relationship to decipher your weakness. I say, good riddance. May your love be happy with a 'real' man, not a weak wimpy self described dysphoric limp. he he he he
@Basra2020 Wait a minute! You're not that feckless bimbo I was having a stupid arguement with, you're some useless little troll. Well that makes more sense and serves me right for replying to email notifications.
You're in no position to be talking about 'real men' and if you knew what gender dysphoria was you wouldn't even be making reference to them in my case. Whatever, welcome to my ignore list fucknut.
there are 5 things that sum up the 1980's.. horror movies,glam metal,regan,aids,and fun,the 80's were the best time,but also the worst..if you never livedin the 80's ,then you will never understand it
Is this apost to be in the 80s lol ?
MrShnier 2 months ago
I couldn't stop crying when louis told prior that he is going to leave him. It's so sad and touching.
MrsDebbieJersey 9 months ago 2
One of the most amazingly crafted scenes of all time. This is truly amazing writing.
hollywoodhighguy1 9 months ago 2
GOD can these people act!
sondheimisGAWD 11 months ago 2
Its amazing to me how much chemistry Mary Louis Parker and Justin Kirk have without ever coming in contact with one another throughout the whole entire play. It takes two extremely talented and passionate people to pull that off. This is why throughout the play I never realize that they had never met because it feels like they are with each other every step of the way, just like Tony Kushner had written it.
MrJazzyjeff14 11 months ago 4
Holy shit it's so heartbreaking.
yetzer19 1 year ago
@yetzer19 i know. the only reason harper is messed up is because of joe and their marriage, she wasn't sick like she is now before him..prior is sick and dying and lou has the gaul to say he loves him but he adandoned him to "save himself". harper has the characters in her dreams as joe is not there for her, prior has the voice in his head and thankfully in real life his friend belize who cares enough to be there more than his partner of 4 years. it's fitting how joe and lou end up together.
limeclementine 1 year ago
This is the best part of the whole drama.
needleorchid 1 year ago 5
why does he start bleeding?
BWombat12 1 year ago
@BWombat12 ulcer
bustthewave 1 year ago
Damn, this is good.
Ardenwolfe 1 year ago
That is one of the best scenes I've seen in any television show/film. Brilliant. Powerful. Moving.
misscreations 1 year ago 3
I love Patrick Wilson, I hate the character he plays. Joe married her knowing he was gay ... Joe is a sick individual. To put someone in that position, its just wrong...
ffmusicdj 2 years ago
Perhaps when society dosen't insist that a gay person either conform or be ostraciszed, gays will not feel the need to marry so they can fit in. It is wrong to put a person in a situation like Joe did. Its also wrong to make a person feel so desperate that they must hide.
rdmkb1 2 years ago
@rdmkb1 I dont think gays want to marry so they can fit in. fit into what? Husband's or wives coming out arent that dramatic as it was on TV... I think Joe cheating on his wife is more fucked up. Joe hid himself, as he said, only to "save" her ...
ffmusicdj 2 years ago 4
You ofcourse can draw your own conclusions as to why a gay person would marry. There are various reasons people do what they do. However I have known men & women who marry to please parents, family, peers. Then they find they cannot continue the charade. This was more common some yrs ago, although not many. Some even do it because religion tells them to do it, and teaches them guilt. Even heterosexuals sometimes feel pressure to settle down and get married to please others.
rdmkb1 2 years ago
She also married him and it's pretty clear she knew what he was when she did.
It's horrible, but it's life and we all make mistakes.
Pooknottin 2 years ago
@Pooknottin but how do you KNOW she knew. aren't you supposed to trust who you love to tell you the truth even if you have doubts? she had emotional problems, for all she knew she could have been making it up in her mind. you cant blame her or honestly think its her fault- that just ridiculous. Joe and society are responsible for what happened, not harper... she was the innocent one
stephy198920011 1 year ago
@stephy198920011
I've had emotional problems. I've been sectioned. However, she does say that she knew he was homosexual. Therefore she cannot be blameless. As they say, 'it takes two to tango'.
Pooknottin 1 year ago
@Pooknottin she wasnt tangoing... she was being screwed over lol
stephy198920011 1 year ago
@stephy198920011
At the risk of seeming terribly dead-pan, it's an expression. It means that this is a situation which requires both parties to accept responsibility for the outcome.
Pooknottin 1 year ago
@Pooknottin no i know, i just didnt feel like writing a long comment; i meant that she really didnt do anything wrong; she wasnt part of the proverbial tango in my mind
stephy198920011 1 year ago
@stephy198920011
While I appreciate you hold that opinion, I'm still waiting for you to justify it. She went into the relationship with her eyes open knowing that his feelings for her were what they were and knowing that there was something else wrong. That's my justification for thinking she is also responsible.
Pooknottin 1 year ago
@Pooknottin my justification is that though she might have SUSPECTED it she never had any admission from joe SO she chose to TRUST him which is the basis for a good marraige; she was so in love with him that she trusted him. Therefore, not her fault. She was being a good wife and was so in love with him that she wanted to believe him. She was also emotionally unstable, probably long before all of this AND he made her think she was being ridiculous so AGAIN she believed HIM... his fault. not hers
stephy198920011 1 year ago
@stephy198920011
She chose to trust him. Sorry, but if you do that it's a choice. That makes you culpable for it. Her fault.
He did it. His fault.
That's it.
You even admit that she made a choice.
Pooknottin 1 year ago
@Pooknottin Okay well all I'm gonna say is obviously OBVIOUSLY you have never been in love because to trust some one goes with love and you cant HELP it that you CHOOSE to trust your partner yes, but I should have said that LOVE chooses for you; im done with this conversation lol your opinion my opinion; opinions are like assholes everyone has one so I'm done trying to justify my opinion to you b/c i dont have to ;)
stephy198920011 1 year ago
@stephy198920011
Oh, I have been in love. It hurt. It fairly destroyed a large portion of my youth actually, but I certainly don't blame the person I was in love with for the pain.
No, trust comes is vital in a loving relationship. Unrequited love does not require trust at all.
You're right about one thing - you're stating an opinion. However, not to justify your opinions is to show that you have no real way to support them. It's a show of willful ignorance and a weakness of conviction.
Pooknottin 1 year ago
@Pooknottin stop being so annoying! i just justified it; im saying i dont need to jusify it further to you for it to be valid! Everyone has an opinion. Mine is right in my mind and is actually the same as a lot of people's because I have been agreed with a lot. You just keep ignoring what I say or turning it around because you feel threatened. I'm tired of this conversation so kindly bugger off and leave it! Jesus Christ almighty! Leave it alone already you're getting annoying!
stephy198920011 1 year ago
@stephy198920011
Y'know there are many people who hold unfounded and unjustified opinions. Popularity is hardly a gague of validity. You need only look to history to see this bear-out. If my attempts to point out what I see wrong in your perspective have annoyed you I appologise, but as far as feeling threatened is concerned I have no reason to. You on the other hand seem to be becoming rather agitated, so I will refrain.
Pooknottin 1 year ago
@Pooknottin no. Im annoyed because you wont just LET it go. You obviously feel threatened by my opinion because you cant let me HAVE MY OWN opinion without bullying me into succumbing to yours... which I'm not. ,so thank you for kindly fucking off :) I appreciate it.. finally
stephy198920011 1 year ago
@stephy198920011
Y'know, you're not actually compelled to reply, so I have to ask myself the question, 'who's really not willing to let it go?' Fyi, I don't just fuck off because you say thankyou and I am not bullying you. If I was bullying you I would be pointing out personal flaws in you, not what I think is wrong about a particular opinion. What you're doing here is trying to make out that you're a victim to win an arguement that isn't actually happening. It's called pathos.
Pooknottin 1 year ago
@Pooknottin ok awesome u WIN cuz obviously you know everything thats going on in my mind.. OBVIOUSLY lol cuz ur like miss cleo over there or something. You have an AMAZING grasp on everything I'm thinking :) good job... sarcasm
stephy198920011 1 year ago
@stephy198920011
I'm not trying to win anything, nor am I claiming to know everything about you. I'm simply standing my ground until you come up with a real justification for your demonization of a fictional character. I also made some observations about the nature of your attempts to 'win'. Is it possible that you're not used to contention?
Pooknottin 1 year ago
@Pooknottin I already justified it FUCK OFF jesus christ almighty you are fucking insane leave me the fuck alone
stephy198920011 1 year ago
@stephy198920011
And the penny drops.
Thanks. It's always gratifying to know when I'm dealing with a bigot.
Pooknottin 1 year ago
@Pooknottin i dont blame your love for marrying another, obviously u were not a 'real' man for her. who wants a closeted marmon like Pitt?
Basra2020 1 year ago
@Basra2020 Okay... what are you talking about?
Firstly you're talking about a relationship you know nothing about. Then you're assuming a heterosexual relationship (patently absurd given the vid this is posted on) and that I'm a man. Actually I'm gender dysphoric and bisexual. Also to note - I never said someone left me, or that my love was unrequited did I?
By the way - what's a marmon?
Pooknottin 1 year ago
@Pooknottin I dont need to know anything about your relationship to decipher your weakness. I say, good riddance. May your love be happy with a 'real' man, not a weak wimpy self described dysphoric limp. he he he he
Basra2020 1 year ago
@Basra2020 Wait a minute! You're not that feckless bimbo I was having a stupid arguement with, you're some useless little troll. Well that makes more sense and serves me right for replying to email notifications.
You're in no position to be talking about 'real men' and if you knew what gender dysphoria was you wouldn't even be making reference to them in my case. Whatever, welcome to my ignore list fucknut.
Pooknottin 1 year ago
@ffmusicdj THANK YOUUUU!<3 agreed!
stephy198920011 1 year ago
best movie ive seen ever in my life!!!
wildangel20 2 years ago
break everthing! It's so hurt...tears drop down inside the heart
tonichcd 2 years ago 5
dear god this is very SAD indeed
sydneygayboi 2 years ago 12
I love the binary in this scene - this is such a genius play. I LOVE Tony Kushner!
SilmarilSam 2 years ago 4
I read this play in my theatre class, the actors hit this scene (well actually the whole thing) perfectly. Bravo.
aperkinson46 2 years ago 2
My heart broke during this part. i have never felt so much emotion from a movie.
MsMonroe69 2 years ago 7
I love Patrick Wilson..
eva2s 2 years ago 4
there are 5 things that sum up the 1980's.. horror movies,glam metal,regan,aids,and fun,the 80's were the best time,but also the worst..if you never livedin the 80's ,then you will never understand it
officialpickle 2 years ago 16
@officialpickle you forgot dr. ruth + teh hole in the ozone layer.
they summed it up right in teh 1st ep. =0)
taffysaur 3 months ago