The Myth of the Political Moderate - George Lakoff

[Shroommduke]

When you watch Swartzenaggers True Lies you understand how Conservatives see the world, they believe they have a higher purpose, that they are above everyone else, that they are key to the success and survival and whithout them we will all fail or at least suffer greately...

[apekillssnake]

A sound anti-Bern "Chapin pair of legs" who believes no conservative is a feminist or socialist/marxist. No conservatives are womens studies professors! The pushed inferno's of support the right OR ELSE- Ka-ching !! APE

[tetsubo57]

I was raised by an abusive alcoholic. So I *get* the strict father model. But I am a progressive liberal because I have discovered compassion. Because I have learned to think outside the tribe. I want a system that is fair to all people, regardless of their place in society or the globe. This does not seem to be a mode of thought embraced by conservatives. They are very tribal, very divisive. Divide and conquer seems to be their motto.

[CaraDanaellea]

@tetsubo57 The problem is as always borders, in the mind and the physical realm. But mostly in the brain...

[AgeOfReclamation]

very interesting. deserves more views.

[AnotherCuppaCoffee]

It's all about the Love! Conservatives love each other, and only each other. Liberals tend to do the same, but feel there's something wrong with loving only "your own." The conservative tribal cultures of the Muslim and Christian Mediterranean reject central government and favor sticking with their own.

US conservatives are acting to destroy a culture that sees central government as acting for all/ They want  replace it with a tribal culture.

[ZerqTM]

this is fasinating stuff :3

[Adnamira]

So, every issue is black and white. One has to be either progressive or conservative on every issue? There is no middle ground on any issue?

[F3dB3aR]

@Adnamira what is middle ground? what purpose does it serve outside of the feeling of "working together"?

[Adnamira]

@F3dB3aR What purpose does extreme politics serve other than than empowering ideologists who impose artificial concepts on others, and whose ideologies time after time fails to address the growing problens on our planet. Maybe this guy has a point in our natural tendencies and base psychology, but it is time we evolved beyond the linear thinking of the 20th century, looking at processes rather than inflexible systems. It is not a crime to be wrong, but it is a shame to be predictable.

[F3dB3aR]

@Adnamira I agree it's not a crime to be wrong, it is a shame to be predictable.....BUT IT IS A SIN TO BE INDECISIVE! Independents, Moderates and middle-of-the-roaders are ideologically undefined and in today's current political system it's not honorable to have a garden-variety of beliefs when it comes down to making a decision YOU CAN'T MAKE ONE! STAND FOR SOMETHING DEEPER THAN CIVILITY AND REALLY ENGAGE IN THE PROBLEMS TIME WITH SERIOUSNESS AND NOT THIS WANT TO BE NON-CONFRONTATIONAL!

[Adnamira]

@F3dB3aR People are called moderate by political dinosaurs and linear thinkers, because they have no concept of looking at things holistically. A moderate may in fact just be a person who priotorises goals over the method. Extremist politicians aren't always decisive, often they aren't much more than parrots who dribble out rhetoric and waffle, rather than having any rational thought upon a subject. Balancing all the various outcomes for a result, isn't indecisive, it's sound rationality.

[F3dB3aR]

@Adnamira so tell me, what do Moderates believe in? What are their principles? What do they stand for?

[Adnamira]

@F3dB3aR they believe that both sides are wrong for starters; they believe the world isn't black and white, good and evil; they believe that both sides of the political system have failed and are incompetent; they believe in making up their minds for the best outcome and articulate their ideas with reason rather than dribbling out some indoctrinated, regurgitated political spam; they believe that if a system keeps failing, there must be something wrong with it.

[F3dB3aR]

@Adnamira that doesn't tell me where they stand on the issues. that tells me that you have a problem with the political process and the negotiations that take place between grown men and women in order to achieve policy. BUT YOU DID NOT INDICATE A PROBLEM W/ THOUGHT. What is it exactly do MODERATES believe when it comes to the right of men and women at work? where do they stand on foreign policy? what are their solutions for the deficit? how do they think the economy is to get back on it's feet?

[Adnamira]

@F3dB3aR Well, that is the thing, they are individual, independent thinkers... or should be. So you will have to ask them as individuals. Just as you would any politician you are going to vote for I hope. Unless you don't have any interest in what an individual has to say & just vote for them for the party they belong to, which is disenfranchising yourself, because your vote is a given and does not have to be earnt, As for grown men and women, THEY DON'T MAKE WHOLE SENTENCES FULL OF CAPITALS.

[F3dB3aR]

@Adnamira This is what I call that "Moderate Bullshxt". You want to believe that the world would work better if we sat around a campfire, held hands and sang kumbaya. But unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way. There's no other way to change things but to get down, dirty and fight hard for one believes in. Your issue with conduct and behavior on Capitol Hill says nothing of the powers that are corrupting our politics and destroying our country with their dangerous policies.

[Adnamira]

@F3dB3aR No rightist or leftist is going to bully me into giving up any possibility of independent thought and decision making I might have. Not you and not some academic. A commitment to either left or rightwing politics is just another form of religion, where individuals adopt a doctrine and then try to force it on everyone else, saying 'you either with us or against us, do not question, just believe and follow.' Political faith is for those who only use one side of their brain. I use both.

[F3dB3aR]

@Adnamira There's nothing wrong with political faith. Faith is the conclusion one comes to after thinking with both sides of their brain. Why? Because in the end, we, as humans, can't be 100% sure of what we think/know because we live in a TEXTUAL REALITY. A world dependent on fluctuating concepts of meaning and plausibility. Thus reality must make ideo-grammatical sense in order for us to understand it. I believe in independent thought. But I don't believe in unprincipled sentimental politics.

[Adnamira]

@F3dB3aR You know in the United States you have an ultra conservative party and you have the Democrats, which are a moderate conservative party - a whole party of moderates. So, if you are a democrat, you are a moderate, and if you are a Republican, you are fascist. I am guessing you must be the latter, because you wouldn't dare be a moderate.

[F3dB3aR]

@Adnamira believe it or not, I'm actually progressive. I hate anything that smells like capitulation to right-wing fascist America. I refuse to compromise with those who compromise our country's democratic and economic well-being.

[Adnamira]

@F3dB3aR But if George Lakoff is a democrat, he is a moderate... or he would be in any other country than America. If he was truly a leftist and not a moderate, his last name would be Party. George Lakoff Party, unless there is a party left of the Democrats that I don't know about,and for some reason he is not a member of.

[fuzzygoddess]

I think the issue that concerns many Americans today is the rending asunder of America, by loyalists possessed of Partisan Bias.

*Our* Representatives speak in terms; "From Both Sides of The Aisle", when they meet in the halls of power to decide policy for the collective future of we the people.

You're either with them, the left or the right, or against them.

However, what if you're middle of the road. Not extreme to either side?!

Therefore, ""Moderate"" is not a myth!

[fuzzygoddess]

That this countries Political pundits, Commentators, Politicians and "Linguists", insist this nation is no longer a matter of; BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE, is not!

And they can only do that, if we the people concede and accept what they tell us. That we must uphold a mutually exclusive ideology for what it means to be a free people in a free country.

Freedom disintegrates when everything we do is governed by the power we elect into office. We then become as free as policy lets us be.

[Americaisgreat123]

Lakoff said that Senator Chuck Hagel was against the war, but "very conservative" while Senator Joe Lieberman was for the war but "relatively liberal."

He is a linguist. Right here, he showed his liberal bias by saying the conservative was very and the liberal wasn't so much. I think Hagel is just as conservative as Lieberman is liberal. Compared to me, Hagel isn't conservative at all, but maybe, if you compare Lieberman to Lakoff, he is liberal at all.

[digitalArtform]

um, what???? Lieberman is indistinguishable from a Republican. He is barely welcome in the Democratic Party.

[mate6mty]

i guess everybody is missing the point, even i, at this moment!! iguess,idont like, ibelive,i think,,rigth terms,most people,i am, im not,you have to, METHAPHORING LIFE,NOT LIVING LIFE

[Whoo69]

nice! I'm kind of what you might call a "libertarian Democrat." I'm not registered with any party, but I am typically socially libertarian (not just liberal) and economically progressive. I'm a noninterventionist on foreign policy and tough on crime.

[Americaisgreat123]

What is the difference between being a social libertarian and a social liberal? They generally have the same positions, but not always the same reasons.

[HarryNRubin]

I don't like this guy's metaphors...I believe his basic idea is right, that there is no such thing as a moderate. I think a moderate is someone who does not pay attention enough to decide. However, progressive and conservative are never the right terms. Individualist and Collectivist are the right terms...I, myself do not consider myself part conservative or part progressive. I am all libertarian.

[teemuruskeepaa]

I am too, but we might be smart enough to talk ourselves out of the different influence system and replace all our influences with a conscious choice of either side. Most people, it seems, have so underdeveloped thought system that their reasons really represent either nurturing or strictness. Their reasons contradict each other. And most people are also politically totally immature, even those who vote actively.

[Hooya2]

"I think a moderate is someone who does not pay attention enough to decide."

And we care because...?

No offense intended, but if you're going to disagree with a professional in a field you have to at least state a reason other than personal preference.