Jagdish Bhagwati: The Free Market and Morality

[Foreshadow44]

Well, I'm a teacher and if enough people aren't working in a local area and education budgets are cut then I'm much less likely to find work. So if the jobs are in China then do I move to China and teach Chinese children? Here's a question why is an Indian economist in the US. Why don't you go where the jobs are India and China and be an economist? Are the economist jobs over there?

[lralbrecht]

the indian economist isn't in the USA because he can't get a teaching job in india.

he is in the US because its schools have the means to be attractive to the best, foreigners included.

[munkyusm]

@lralbrecht Sigh...he came to the USA because he didn't want to wait for India to catch up to the United States. "exploitation", as people who have no idea of how a market actually works call it, will eventually lead to all nations who pursue it being on the same developmental level that always increases. If it were not for governments, via forceful intervention (i.e. tariffs, regulation, taxes), the rest of the world would catch up MUCH faster.

[munkyusm]

@Foreshadow44 Well, in a free market, where government does not monopolize education, what you as a teacher would do is open a school out of your house, and you'd probably do a MUCH better job than the job you do now...where you're told what to teach.

[LibertyEd]

Interesting comments, regarding the Western and the Asian way of ideology. It's quite interesting, coming from a person such as yourself that had certain privlages growing up, that did not want for anything. With a wealth back ground, your a head by miles of the population who are struggling and been taxed to keep the wealth and powerful in charge. It would be also interesting to see, if Mother Theresa agree with your idiology of Asian thinking of the Wealthy powers exploite there own for profit

[zotone]

Bhagwati is hilarious :P

[Tanitko4]

well, I guess any system could work properly if it wasn't for Corruption. I think that is what's f*** us all.

[munkyusm]

@Tanitko4 Corruption = abuse of power. How do you get rid of corruption? Get rid of power. How do you get rid of power? Extremely limited government...or no government at all. Wealth is not power, when there's no power structure to throw your money at. So, please don't use the wealth argument as an excuse for a reason to have massive government.

[Crazylalalalala]

@munkyusm

interesting idea BUT people always live in some sort of power structure. Gov't, Mob, Tribe, Group of Friends,.... there is always power structure and wealth is one of the most powerful tool of gaining power and control over the power structure thus gaining power.

there needs to be a balance. govt need to be just big enough to provide the important services (which i would say are health, security, law, some social welfare, education) but not any bigger.

[munkyusm]

@Crazylalalalala The power I speak of is - Someone granted the right to use force on others. This is basically what government is - a small group of people is granted the power to use force and make laws in order to control society. This has been done for the past 10,000 years and it simply doesn't work. I truly believe that within the next 100 years, the belief that we need rulers will disappear. The internet is the first step.

[Crazylalalalala]

@munkyusm

yes but there will always be a small group in society that has power over the rest. Gov;t is one example, but criminal gangs are another. Do you really think that people will stop wanting power just because gov''t is limited or non existent?

I dont. Thus i much prefer a gov't that i can at least inflorescence with my piers by voting rather then a crimial gang that forces their view on me.

[TheShoTo]

I dont understarnd the joke about Sarkozy.

[D0g63rt]

He doesn't know things that were expected to be common knowledge.

[TheShoTo]

things such like what ?

[psychiatristman00]

good point about globalization.

[primevk]

Read his papers....his so called wisdom is diluted by his lack of humility and bigotry

[primevk]

@BourgeoisLiberal What the hell are you talking about? Don't you greeks have enough to worry about right now? Don't pretend to be an intellect because you read two pages out of some social science textbook...there are many sides to this so called phenomenon "Globalization", you Greek idiots are getting a taste of it right now. Next time before you go on the offensive check your arsenal first...nothing worse than an idiot pretending to be educated.

[primevk]

@BourgeoisLiberal Hey FuckHead...Questions don't begin with insults. You can interpret a video or mesg rather, anyway freakin way you want...at what point did I imply that these kids were rich before Globalization? fuck this, I almost feel as dumb as you are because I have to reply to such ignorant ass comments...just do the world a favor shut your "cock pleaser" and keep your bigotry to yourself. Despite the economic situations in Greece, I'm sure they still need garbage men, you get my drift?

[primevk]

@BourgeoisLiberal Are you serious? your saying child labor is right? at this point, your just trying to protect your integrity like a desperate fool. Learn to be less narrow minded and see all the different sides of an issue before you decide to sound like an idiot. Obviously you only see things the way you want to see them. Open your fucking eyes and learn some humility. It doesn't matter wat you say anymore, it will not disguise your ignorance

[primevk]

@BourgeoisLiberal Holy fuck do you have no life, you writting an essay? two things 1. the gap between poor and rich becomes more apparent, still doesn't solve the crisis with for the less fortunate 2. Assuming I am a rich kid now is correct, but you have no idea what I've been through, what i didn't have growing up, or where I grow. I told you were just an ignorant fool who simply regurgitate that crap you see in some damn book.

[primevk]

@primevk you say child labor existed before globalisation "dumbass", have you seen with your own narrow minded little eyes what happens in brazil, china, india when these foregin corporations move in, have you seen the greed in someone's eyes when given an opportunity to better themselves at thousands or millions of other ppl's lives. it seems you wanna get personal you fucking piece of shit, if you really have a fucking problem with me I'm sure I can find a way for us to settle this CUNT

[fringeelements]

What happens is those child laborers, who were working on farms, earn higher wages and work shorter hours.

[JosephDownie]

"A new area of activity for the Templeton Foundation is the funding of research projects and teaching programs that promote enterprise-based solutions to poverty and that promote "the virtues that support successful capitalist economies". this is taken from their Wiki page, just so that people know who it is that's providing this information.

[leelaloop]

If they're unilaterally examining how sweatshop labor makes the workers more moral, they appear to be justifying it- especially if they ignore how immoral sweatshops and neo-colonialism is. Jagdish Bhagwati speaks specifically on the morality of the worker's choices, but not on all about what terrible conditions he works in. If that's not rationalizing it, then it's just plain ignorance.

[leelaloop]

It is a depraved act to rationalize and justify sweatshop labor, no matter how amoral the situation is. I highly doubt these people speak for those who work 12 hours a day in a stressful environment with no breaks and are threatened with brutality to not try to start a labor union.

Thanks, BigThink, for providing a false dialogue with no representation for those who acknowledge the inhumanity of the policies of the FLA.

[kaziqbal]

no one supports or rationalizes child labor

search youtube for this video:

John Stossel Are Sweatshops factories good

[caltrop69]

I'll support anything that's voluntarily done by an individual pursuing their own happiness by negotiating freely.

It's the "negotiating freely" part that seems to be lacking in these sweatshops. Often due to local government/corporate collusion.

In all, however...Once these communities have built up a capital base, I don't think they'll be as easily taken advantage of. The only way they CAN build that capital is by production.

Don't you have to start somewhere?

[jpinkard]

You have to assume that these people want to be pulled out of this "poverty." Or assume that they want there "market opened."

What happens when there is no more cheap labor? How is it moral to pay workers pennies an hour?

I really enjoy this BigThink channel very much. It's interesting and timely. Keep it up.

[davidmesaaz]

What happens when there is no more cheap labor? How is it moral to pay workers pennies an hour?

When there is no more cheap labor there is no more poverty and that will be a good day.

I think that you should read in Praise of Cheap Labor by Paul Krugman and where sweatshops are a dream in the New York Times

[munkyusm]

@davidmesaaz I'm confused. Do you actually want these third world societies to progress?