Added: 5 years ago
From: chenessinc
Views: 192,953
Sort by time | Sort by thread (beta)

Link to this comment:

Share to:
see all

All Comments (232)

Sign In or Sign Up now to post a comment!
  • 1:00 Nice heat and beat..Ive done that one before. Just ordered my Okatana. Since Im 6'5 and 255 pounds I dont think I will be complaining about the weight.

  • To all the people complaining about the steel not being folded... Yes, I agree that folding steel makes blades more cool just because of the extra work involved. But it simply isn't factually correct that folded steels are SUPERIOR. They're not. The only reason the Japanese folded their sword steel is because their ore was of low quality and their steel technology kind of sucked - so they NEEDED to fold it. Modern steel is cheaper to make and is of superior quality. So stop complaining!

  • Man, say what you want about blade balance issues, but the Tsuka Ito wrapping is damn freakin tight! my iaito is going for 5 years now and not a single thread loose

  • Man made instead of machine made for the win!!

  • katana is japan

    not corea

  • Im going to buy a Cheness Kaze next week, cant wait.

  • What is the tool called that the guy is using to shave the blade?

  • I wanted a Katana since I was little can i get one shipped to Saudi Arabia ??

    please inform me if you can do that

  • @EhabAtia1991 - I have never shipped there so I do not know for sure. You might want to check with your local post office to make sure it is allowed first.

  • I wanted a Katana since I was little can i get one shipped to Saudi Arabia ??

    please inform me if you can do that

  • The Oniyuri is just unspeakably awesome. I've had mine 2 years. I love it! It makes my other swords jealous.

  • i`ll kiss that woman!!! i have had my cheness for more than 4 years now and the wrapping still tight as the day i get it!!! thank you

  • a really good blade that will hold an edge and cut through pactically anythingthing requires the blade to be folded many times am i correct? if so how many times do you fold

  • @asus3571 Good swords do NOT have to be folded. There are many excellent blades on the market that are unfolded and exceed the durability and strength of traditionally folded swords.

  • @asus3571 No.... actually, a folded blade of modern steel might be less durable than an unfolded one. Folding was done to remove air pockets and redistribute impurities throughout the steel, this was especially important if you were using tamahagane chunks which come out of the tatara (Japanese smelter) in a very raw state. With the modern steels of today and new quenching/tempering techniques, a monosteel blade - done correctly - is several times stronger than any folded steel blade.

  • Man I'd kiss that girl wrapping the Tsuka Ito if I could. I bought a sword from cheness a while ago and that wrapping is tight. Very well done.

  • do you use charcoal or coal?

  • @Slic3R1 Charcoal will be better, coal has impurities like sulphur which weaken steel alloys.

  • seriously cool... can i get one shipped to Canada no problems?

  • @MaTchBoOkPoEt, There is no problem with shipping to Canada. I have been shipping there on a near daily basis for the past 5 or 6 years without any issues.

  • full respect to these men & women, what a way to make a living, hard fuckin work, indeed, i dont want to know how much they get paid, i hope its fair,

  • i would love to make swords for a living,cool video

  • Is this the same way the 9260 blades are made?

  • Awsome

  • I have two of these swords, I love them.

  • i just ordered a mokko a few minutes ago. Its cool to see what goes into making it.

  • What kind of oil you guys used?

  • i want to make swords for a living.awesome

  • You may be right metallurgically as raw iron so folded gets carbon it needs in order to be converted to carnon steel in order to be able to be hardened and tempered later on in the process. But folding also has a physical aspect which is the creation of thousands of laminates which is bunched together to give the blade the sharpness, toughness and flexibility the single unfolded blade cannot possibily achieve.

  • The addition of carbon is one aspect, the other is homogenization of the steel. But creation of laminates (hada) is actually a by-product of the process. It is essentially flaws in the steel and is where failure occurrs most often.

    The lamination that gives different parts of the blade different characteristics which you are referring to is a different process and is not derived from folding. It is from forge welding different steels onto different parts of the blade after the folding stage.

  • @chenessinc Paul I love your swords!

    I own one of your trail run 30" 9260 katana's and it's a beauty. I had my reservations after browsing the net but you really have your quality under control. I even have a brass 2nd mekugi, witch was not normal on your earlyer production runs (just double bamboo), kudo's on that. Best sword for that price possible, cuts perfectly, good balance and never chips or gets deep scratches. Cant wait to get one of your Kaze's, where do you sell them now in europe?

  • @hanskais168 The folding is done with tamahagane to even out the distribution of carbon and possible other impurities in the steel. There are great debates about if the folding actually makes the steel stronger, probably it only makes the steel more uniform and as a result better workable and hardenable, thus the sword better.

  • @hanskais168 Indeed a real nihonto shinken is made of two types of steel, a harder and softer type, but these are each folded 5 to 14 times by itself before being joined in the final configuration and fused (but definately not folded together again). Carbon content in tamahagane is allready around 1,25% to 1,5% so it actually doesn't need more carbon.

  • Wow there is so much hard work being put into these, amazing to think they're mass produced.

  • u could at least fold the steel.. makes it much more universal and strong.

  • I have one model of folded steel. But it does not make it stronger. Modern swords made using brank new steel billets are already homogenized. This is not the same as using iron ore or pig iron as they did in the past. Folding process has much more purpose in the past. No so much for modern steel.

  • folding has two purpose.. one it spread the carbon content evenly... which look really good.. and second, it allow the combination of hi carbon steel and low carbon steel to produce a stick of steel perfect for katana use.. hard sharp edge and soft resilient back... that is why katana are sooooooooooo perfect..

  • I thot repeated folding makes the blade a lot more tougher and flexible.........

  • Compared to Iron, Yes. You are right. But not on modern day steel. We have steel being developed today that didn't exist 5 years ago. Back in the day when you start with raw iron, you had to do that, but it doesn't make sense to do so on new steel billets made today... other than for the aesthetics.

  • Do you absolutely need ray skin for grip?

  • No, of course not. Rayskin was adopted in the past because it was one of the best materials for providing traction when the handle became blood soaked. It as available naturally, easy to manipulate when wet, dries hard and tough.

    Today, modern swords are used only for iai and are not expected to come into contact with blood. Traction is mostly provided by the ito wrapping.

    Rayskin remains on swords today as an aesthetic element. Nice to have, but not absolutely necessary by any means.

  • While I would still prefer quality made Japanese Katanas, I would still use the quantity Chinese(or local made) ones as the a main weapon or a practicing material. After all, why trash a Mercedes for a rally race eh?

  • ...i hafta say, these Chinese-made katana do look pretty good, but now that i look at the forging process, it looks kinda rushed, as if they dont care about the quality of their products. yes, it makes more swords in a short amount of time, but to me, quality is better than quantity, which is why i have to say that Japanese-made katana are superior to Chinese-made

  • what are you doing when shaping the kissaki is that just a regular metal file or is it something better?

  • what are you doing when shaping the kissaki is that just a regular metal file or is it something better?

  • How sharp is it?

  • They are designed for tameshigiri on nami grade tatami omote mats, but not quite sharp enough for slicing paper.

  • Katanas=Japanese. O_o

    Good vid I guess... kinda interesting...

    Nothin else to say Lol...

  • When they folded the steel they created "crystallographic defects" in the material. (google for"crystallographic defects"). These defects made the material stronger, but they also make it more brittle.

    Creating strong steel requires more than homogenizing the carbon content. Any smith will tell you that.

  • Im a smith and you are sort of right, the defects can make the steel more brittle,

  • Yes, it does matter. Wipe off and re-oil the blade, otherwise you will end up with a permanent finger print shaped stain.

  • Why don't you use powered equipment? A power hammer and belt grinder would speed up production, I can't imagine grinding a sword by hand.

  • Machine grinders leaves waves on the surface of the steel.

  • thats true. it would save time. but it would probably take away quality and attention to detail. besides i would rather use it this way. because once its done wouldnt you feel proud of your self for making it on your own. that why i want to be a smith soon. kinda hard finding the right materials though.

  • Ive been smithing for a while, trust me a power hammer saves your life, as do power grinders, and you can take the wave off of the steel, that requires doing it by hand though, and as for materials, look for construction companies, they throw away the black steel packaging bands, those bands are 1050 or 1075 steel, good stuff to use when you are starting out

  • My Souke told me that power hammer made katanas arent as good as having an actual swordsmith hammering it.

  • i always use kodachi sword for riot

  • Whats the point? All katanas really for now is to look pretty on a wall. I think we should go back to the edo period!

  • That, and iaido kata and tameshigiri. As well as kendo katas. Maybe some Gumdo, Bujinkan, and Haidong Gumdo practices.

  • These swords are made for iaido practices and is made on a production level. Though it is similar in material and construction to a Japanese made katana, it is not going to be the same as the individually smithed blades.

    Your tanto, however, is a different item altogether. 440 stainless is typically not used to make Japanese swords because of their tendencies to break and shatter.

    We do not use 440 to make swords for that reason.

  • At 3:45 that' s not a Katana, looks more like a ninjato. Am i right?

  • Nope. Cheness doesn't make those hollywood style "ninja to." Such a sword never existed historically. It's a construct of fiction.

  • ninja to did existed however it's hard to define one for most (all) ninja weapon were made , improvised by the user or custom made for him/her , that including the sowrd (" to" means knife actually ) , so "ninja to" is the sowrd that ninja used, but without a cerrtain definition

  • Just have one question, looking at this one and the Cold Steel, what does the 9260 spring steel do for you that the 1050 steel doesn't and vice versa?

  • 1050 is a straight carbon steel. It has 0.5% carbon content. Hence 10-50.

    9260 is a silicon alloy. It has a 0.6% carbon content and a 2% silicon alloying agent (9 denotes silicon).

    The Si alloying agent turns this into a spring steel versus regular carbon steel. Meaning, it is more resilient to taking a set after being bent and more resistent to metal fatiques.

    Hardness wise, it is similar, just slightly harder as dictated by the carbon content (martensitic crystalline structure).

  • i want

  • I have a Cheness Kaze katana that I re wrapped the handle on.

    It is my first sword and I use it for cutting (for fun only) in the back yard all the time.

    It is very durable, with a nice clam shell shape and nice hamon.

    Wish the boshi were thicker but for the $280 I spent on it from the SBG store it is well worth every penny.

  • how much do they pay to those employes?

  • hmmm... Enough RMB to keep them out of the MMO gold farming industry?

  • hello

  • I have purchased two of your swords...the Bujikan Onuyri and the Yamakami SGC. I am very well pleased with both.

    Maybe you could recommend a tradition katana with clay tempered blade?

    God Bless

  • the Kaze katana is what youre after.

  • I was thinking of purchasing the Yamakami what has been your experience with it?

  • Cheness swords are amazing

  • These katanas seem to have less of a curve in the blade traditional Japanese katanas. Perhaps this is a result of the oil quenching instead of water.

  • actually its because they form the curve by hand instead of the steel bending back during bi-metallic forging since cheness blades are one solid piece instead of a spine and an edge

  • Well, it's not just that. In true katana forging, they would also use a sand and clay mixture on the back part of the blade...the mune and sides, to the start of the blade edge, which means when quenched the front cools much quicker which keeps it hard and brittile, while the back bit stays soft including the fact that the outer jacket is steel and the inner bit is iron.

  • is the 2nd sword from the top at around 6:30 the o-katana?

  • how do you got to attach the sword to the handle?

  • something called mekugi. usually they are bamboo pegs (sometimes brass) that go through the tsuka (handle)into the tang which holes had been drilled

  • kuzon000 i have this sword i buy for 2500 00 zł

  • i can see why they don't use machines. the swords come out much more bueatiful.

  • alot of hard work = beautifull swords

  • How much are those,

    and how could I get one?

    Im stuck with a wooden one

    when I do my sword training.

  • you can find suitable production swords from 60 - 300 $ US do a google search for sword buyers guide... very informative resource for production swords

  • The guy on the forge, he's got it made alright.Smoking on the job.

  • lol yeah. that place isn't enclosed though, so he would be allowed. In england...

  • just a point, even with todays steels it is important to use two or more steels in sword making. to reason being that different steels gain different "hardness" so that you can have a tough flexible core(softer) covered in harder steeland a very hard cutting edge with is suported with the outer tough steel. I like the chinese work mentality.

  • wa,,,, i wan how to get

  • where can i get a sword like that?

  • Erm about the folding, it also added to the strength of the blade, did it not?, just wondering, along with the longer blood groove to add to its loss of weight without losing strength.

  • QuickQuips is correct in my opinion :) i mean i would love a job like this one :D

  • Cheness "Tenchi" Katana WITH (Bo-Hi) - 28" blade - 9260 Silicon Alloy Spring Steel

    Do this model has an Hamon, or only the kaze,kanbai,9260 DH has?

  • VERY cool

  • That poor lady wrapping the tsuka. I feel like I'd like to offer her a neck massage, because it looks like she could be in such pain sitting there like that. I certainly don't have the patience.

  • why not fold the metal during the forging process?

  • There is a reason why swords were folded in the past. When they used raw iron to begin with.

    1. To homogenize the steel

    2. to control carbon content.

    Other than making a historic replica, there is no need for folding modern steel which are already homogenized with exact chemical content pre-determined to begin with.

    Provided the sword starts with brand new steel billets (as in our case), and not with scrap steel.

  • Will Cheness think about branching into other sword types such as Korean or Chinese swords? Currently I am searching for a practical but unsharp Jian ( have siblings ) but do not wish to purchase Adam Hsu's if possible. Also I am a first year in Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu and have been told that I can finally use iaito whee :D Between the type 8 and type 9 which one is preferable? ( not minding maintenance ) Is the deluxe really noticeably different ? ( They all seem so nice )THANKS for your time!

  • Yeah Cheness are very good quality swords. New SRC (?) blades are extremally sharp. And i like that You don't hide that these swords are maid in China.

    For all those who don't know: japanese and chinese katanas are best quality ! Don't confuse taivan/honk-kong/spanish katanas wich You can buy for 10$ for three with those !

    Thanks for sharing this video!

  • Very informative, and your employees seem to be enjoying themselves.

  • nice to finally see an unpretentious swordmaking video :)

  • I have become interested in an iaito from Cheness.  Can you ship to the Philippines? Thanks.

  • Are there going to be a grooved (bo-hi) version of Kaze or the 9260 DH Shirasaya??

  • Thanks for posting this video. Its good to see how you do it. Even tho the swords are not Japanese made. Alot of your production processes are similar. I also like that you dont lie to us about how you do things. For those who want a live cutting blade but can not get a japanese sword. This is the next best thing.

  • Are all your swords made in China? As I am intersted in purchasing the O'Katana but I'd like to know exactly were it would be forged.

  • All of there swords are made in China.

  • Which company are you referring to? I only know of forges in China... And I know of one in Cambodia which makes very good blades. I do not know of ones in Malaysia.

  • whats that thing on that womans hand?!!

  • hi very nice video very nice to see the katana being made thank you for the video :)

  • thanks for the video..makes me appreciate my katana,all the work and skill

  • what is the diferent between those 2 katana who originally made in japan and with yur katana? i mean from the material(ion,steel,karbon..etc­) you used to make katana...please i truly need to know...

  • Katanas made by licensed Japanese follow the traditional method of construction. Starting from pig iron, then adjusted for chemical composition. All steps are directed at one sword, customizing it fully. Generally considered art-pieces.

    Production katanas (mine) start with brand new steel billets with a pre-determined chemical composition. Each piece is made to a fixed set of specification. Are much cheaper and are practice pieces for martial arts use.

  • How can i get yur katana, can i order one. i am from malaysia.

  • Sorry... I think it may be prohibited to ship swords to Malaysia. My apologies.

  • how long did it take them to forge that blade out?

  • Well, hard to say.

    When I first started, which was when this footage was taken, my capacity was about 200 blades a month...

    Now the numbers are higher, but so are the number of workers... so its pretty hard to estimate.

  • Can you plz tell me where i can get a katana in Europe, the realy sharp one not the decorative ones!!!!Thx (and if you know what are the prices)

  • There are plenty of sellers in Europe.. what country are you referring to?

  • Well im from slovenia and its not long ago since we have entered Europ!!!

  • O and it doesnt mean that the sword needs to be from EU!!! I just want a good sharp katana at a reasonable price!!!!Thx

  • I do not have a reseller in Slovenia.... My apologies. You may want to do a search online to find if there are companies in your country selling katanas.

  • what do u use in your forge charcoal or coal?

  • i remember i went solo and made a katana...took me 5 hours just to get the metal softened...

  • Hi buddy, i'm Vietnamese and I want to know where is your retailshop? And do you have the plan to open a shop in Haiko-near Lao Cai province in Viet Nam? Because we want to purchase your swords but in Haikou they have only the bad products

  • Hi,

    I am located in San Diego, California... My warehouse is here. I do not have a showroom.

    There are retailers in UK, Germany, Australia, Holland, but non in Vietnam... Sorry about that.

  • I just got my Cheness Katana "Tenchi" 9260 Silicon Alloy Spring Steel and I am amazed by the quality, performance and balance. It will stay my workhorse for the years to come. It's worth 7 times every Euro.

  • awesome video you guys have a web site?

  • Thanks.

    Yes, my site is at chenessinc (dot) com

  • Paul, If you were to recommend a traditional katana maker, what one, in your opinion, would be one of the best? What I am looking for, are one of the Japanese licensed ones - I realize the cost will be greatly higher.

    By the way, I absolutely love the Kaze. I think it's my favorite. The hamon just glows and dances in the light.

  • it's not japanese, it's chinese made. Those people are chinese.

  • Yes.. that is correct. All "Production Swords" are made outside of Japan. That is why I specified this in the beginning of the video.

    By Japanese laws, steel production swords cannot be made in or even imported into Japan.

    The only steel constructed katanas allowed for manufacture in Japan has to be by one of the licensed sword smith of the country and at a production rate of 2 swords per month maximum.

  • Another major difference is that genuine Japanese blades are still created in an almost religious atmosphere with every smith having a Shinto kamidana (or "God-shelf") in his forge - unlike these guys who may as well be hammering out a fire-poker.

    Is Chesness anything to do with the "Nami Ryu" crowd in the US as they all seem to prefer using Chinese swords over real Nihonto?

  • No relations with the Nami Ryu crowd.

    I do, however, work alot with some of the larger Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu dojos as well as Bujinkan dojos... as well as some of the smaller ryu ha. Also, I work with (and am a member myself) of the AUSKF All US Kendo Federation dojos.

    But... Regardless of the ryu ha or federation, very few practices with real Nihontos. Even those senseis who own many authentic pieces will still practice with a production sword.

  • Like those who own a Ferrari may drive a BMW or even a Honda for their daily commute to work.

    Practicing with a real nihonto may work fine for some people, but is simply too costly for alot of others.

  • Thank you for answering me - I thought my question was being avoided for being negative but perhaps I was wrong.

    I live in Japan and the only two options here are aluminium zinc iaito or the real thing. Production swords like yours are not allowed in the country as they are considered weapons rather than training implements.

  • No problem.

    Here in the USA, prior to production katanas being available, there were only 2 options for practitioners.

    One is to use a nihonto if you can afford it. The other is to use old WWII machine made gunto... if you want to practice tameshigiri. But nowadays, the WWII guntos are becoming more and more expensive to find also.

  • man! thats a great movie aye! nice work thanks! 5 stars from me! how much would one of those swords cost?

  • I try to keep my swords between $150 to $300 Max.

  • maybe if they used machines they would get better swords (and cheaper)

  • Certain machines assistance would be ok. (power hammers)but others will make the sword worse (wheel grinders). (There are companies that uses both.. I just choose not to).

    Most machine made swords comes out of rolling forges, which results in a wavy blade surface.... though they can be cranked out at 1 sword every few seconds.

    Machine made swords would be cheaper, yes.... but not better.

  • yes i agree, japanese made swords are better.

    but yes they do range bettwen 10k-50k.

  • how do they they cost im sure there is a large range of prices but iw as just curious

  • guy lemme tell you not only are cheness blades great for cutting but their owner is a great guy. I have been in constant contact with their company for info such as polishing and every time Mr. Chen get backs to me promptly and with excellent advise.

    so all in all, all i can say is BUY ONE OF HIS SWORD you will not regret it!

  • if you get sword with ridges in them they will cause more pain because they rip on the muscel instead of cutting it

  • what is better a chinisse katana or a japanese one

  • A Japanese made katana is better, If you can afford one.

    Japanese Government limits production of katanas to a few licensed smiths, and at a maximum production output of 2 swords per month... They can be very expensive.

    But because so much time and effort can be allocated to each sword, their quality is very high, w/ focus on historic accuracy. They are considered art pieces. (~$10K and up).

    Chinese made katanas are inexpensive training tools for martial art use, not art pieces.

  • but are mono steel blades really good enough?

  • well, it depends on what you want. for instance, the cheness kaze is differentially hardened too produce a blade that can absorb much shock and maintain a sharper edge as a result, but is prone too chipping if not used correctly. a cheness monosteel such as the tenchi or shura, cannot hold as sharp an edge as a differential, but is very very durable and has excellent resistance against metal fatigue.

  • how much for a sword?

  • for a cheness sword, they run much lower than a blade from hanwei or cold steel or whatever, but it is just because Mr.Chen wants too provide you with an economical, but high quality and very functional blade.

  • Great

  • awesome! very interesting

  • iv been seching a video or a diagram that shows u how to tie a tuska ito ty. :]

  • yo rice 71 There was an issue of blade magazine that showed you how to do that back in 2000 or so. Flat braid cord half twist

  • sweet, i totally want a sword made by a dude smokin a cigarette

  • HAHA, that cigarette guy should get royalties. I bought one, then talked my friend into buying one based on this video.

  • I cant freakin wait to buy my cheness katana. I think its called the SGC series that i want. I like the wider thinner blade for enhanced cutting. I havent even gotten one yet and im already tellin my friends to stick with cheness. I loved this video and i especially enjoyed watching the young lady wrapping the tsuka. Thank you for the video post.

  • Thanks.

    Paul Southern at SBG just posted up a bunch of videos on the SGC Katana. Just do a search for "SGC Katana" and you'll see it in action.

  • just a matter of information. i myself hav a small wokshop where i forge Japanease swords (not a professional) trying to perfecting my self. just a matter of question and i hope you can answer it. when you are polishing the blade, wut type of stone you use and when to apply it. the stages, which goes first. cheers..

  • that's what i wanna do some day when i get my own house

  • hi great video and i really enjoy reading all the comments and posts.What are the dimensions of a katana? Height and weight?

  • They vary quite a bit...

    I make swords from 18" blade to 21" blade, to 23", to 25", to 27, 28, 29, 30, and 33" blades. The handle goes from 6.5" to 12".

    Height on the average blade is 1.25" up to 1.50"

    Width from 0.25" to 0.3" at mune machi

    weight varies as well of course..

  • do you sell swords in australia because if you do i have some yay

  • Yes, some of the swords I can ship to Aus. Some I cannot because of the length limits.

  • trust me guys, cheness katanas are amazing. i have the differential kaze, it does not feel sharp until you cut with it, in that case, it feels like you were cutting the air. i have cut many water bottles and it still pleases me. brings a smile to my face every time

  • Wow, that lady tying the tsuka is really fast. It took me like two hours to tie another cord on mine when the first one broke.(Don't ask)

  • can i contact your through a e-mail to ask more questions if possible?

  • Yes.... I removed previous posts so you can ask your questions directly.

  • Thank you, i had a look through the and watched the videos on the forging process, etc. The katana's look very impressed. Im looking for a well made-visually impressive katana mainly for ornamental but that can also be used efficiently for cutting? Im quite tall so i was looking at the O-katana, is that the longest katana do?

  • I think there are some makers out there that makes even longer swords.... I forget where, but I know I have seen photos of it.

  • Ah ok, the 0-katana looks long enough for the moment, shall be ordering 1 soon!! is it possible to have a black tsuka/ito instead of the brown one shown on your site to go with the scabbard?

  • Sorry about that... I no longer have a workshop domestically so I won't be able to rework them here.

  • you had a workshop? did you make any katanas or were you more like.... fooling around? - i take this video was not shot at your place.. 0o'

  • The workshop that I had here in California is only for minor reworks and for fooling around. Most of the work I did here was remounting of tsukas, tsubas, polishing blades, etc.. Some experimenting and trying new stuff and techniques... So I used to be able to do some minor adjustments and customization if it was needed....

    This workshop is no more though. No time..

    I do not make the swords here in US. The video is filmed at our forge in China, not US.

  • dont let your tongs gett that hot young one

  • were can i order one??

  • MIKECLAUSEN:

    Buy from a known good retailer (blades uk, weapons galore, etc), and DON'T buy a stainless steel blade if you intend to do anything but hang it on the wall. Buy Carbon-steel blade. Normally £100+

  • hey guys, i am in quite a pickle. apparently if you do not have any more oil for your blades, you can use mineral based oils as a substitute. well, i am wondering if i can use "MINERAL OIL" instead. please someone get back to me!