Philip Zimbardo- The Lucifer Effect- Part 1

[archer111000]

Smart guy, interesting presentation. I attended one of his lectures in person once- good stuff.

[FightTheSerpents]

This man should be killed

[ShedskinTalon]

Going to be honest, here. I saw Bats, as i thought they were, in that drawing. I didn't even notice the Angels until the lecturer pointed them out. '>_>

[Imawakeitsmorning]

I had never heard him talk until now. Anyone else expected this voice to a lot deeper?

[fhurvhur]

Nobody going going nowhere without learning old Egyptian history, all orginated there, period.

[JonahTorn]

@fhurvhur And Egypt would follow Sumer.

[surrealdealpick3]

if you know your spiritual lore Lucifer did not start the fire, not the best of beast archetype examples . I mean come on we live in a world where we can eat an organic honey crisp with the creator and lucifer and some quantum physics in the same visit. This guy may be a mad man for his dark side of the force prison experiment, and goatee. I don't know if I can go on. I may respond to last vid.

[OrthodoxDarwinist]

The State institution, financial instituions, and religion = the bedrocks of evil in this world.

[zestydude87]

@OrthodoxDarwinist Yep, and oh yeah, Lucifer himself.

[OrthodoxDarwinist]

@zestydude87

Lucifer is not evil at all. Yahweh is. Read the Old Testament.

[FightTheSerpents]

@OrthodoxDarwinist Like you would know anything.

[DonnyCrane]

4 people are evil

[iLivedIt381]

For those who doubt this effect read up on todays Child Protection Social Workers line of command or Child Services in USA or in UK the Family intervention teams.

At present I have no idea how these young people are turned into people who do not hear the screams of the children being wrongly removed or care about the suicides they cause.

[kyuki777]

i came here to learn how to do the moves from the song lucifer. from the band shinee. this. is. NOT. my korean hot guys!

[verisimilitudino]

Great presentation, usage of hand gestures got obnoxious though in my opinion.....

[GNWP67]

Was zimbardo really the first one who got the idea to combine sociology and psychology ?

[Darkpoisonofmyheart]

Weird mustache and eyebrows. LOL.

[ArtFart001]

"The moment you're in the picture you're already guilty."

[stevedoetsch]

But the experiment has more to say about the psychologists themselevs, and there assumptions about human nature, than anything else. These experiments are only shocking to those who for unknown reasons are blind to humanity's innate ability to harm one another.

[stevedoetsch]

I doubt whether the Africans of Darfur, or people from any place of conflict in the world, would even consider this an insight. Certainly men who lead others in genocide are not only well aware that people will obey authority, they have mastered this principle in practice. It is only those sheltered in mind and experience, such as the psychology graduates of American and British universities, that would be amazed by what the experiment demonstrates.

[stevedoetsch]

And those trained and raised in any classic religion, Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, would not be surprised by the concept at all. The core of these religions deals with the reality of humanity's innate capacity for evil. The only shock would be seeing it in action.

[stevedoetsch]

What the experiment reveals is how out of touch with human nature is the body of secular knowledge of this so 'modern' era.

[trisky1234]

I used to see this guy on my study books and think, must be a stern guy, but seeing him on video, he's pretty funny and mild :) Knowledgeable guy too.

[jumar1281]

whoever believes that the monsters who tortured innocent people at Abu Ghraib were "just a few bad apples" or "a few rogue solidiers" acting on their own is a complete ignorant moron. they were ordered to do everything they did straight from the top and they followed their orders to the T. you have to be a moron to believe they were acting on their own

[roxasroks]

@jumar1281 No you don't. You should read "The Lucifer Effect". It exposes a lot about the human condition. Things that to me, were obvious, but not backed by any evidence until I found some.

[jumar1281]

@roxasroks

i was speaking specifically about the soldiers at Abu Ghraib, and the proof they were not acting alone lies in the tactics they used. the tactics were so specific, taken from sources only available to 'higher ups". now if you want to have a discussion about how good people can do evil things under certain situations then i would agree you about the Lucifer Effect.

my original point was only to express my frustion why no higher ups were held responsible for abu ghraib

[roxasroks]

@jumar1281 Forgive me for sounding argumentative now, im no. Is there any evidence of it?

[filthyfuckinsmiles]

im going to get off when this book comes in the mail today..

not literally

[ImaniTMisfit]

Thank you.

[pawppy]

kind of hard to picture angels flying around in tar...:P i saw the bats..

[disdajuice1]

@pawppy same here dude

[THX1449]

He's using a mixed analogy. The Lucifer of Judeo-Christian text was kicked out of heaven because he was the second highest being in all of heaven and craved to be higher than God, so he got one third of the angels to follow them and they were kicked out of heaven. This all went on before the creation of earth. He's using the Muslim story which is that Lucifer refused to bow down to Adam, etc, mixed with the Judeo-Christian story. Great speaker, but that one instance concerns me.

[alexchavez777]

@THX1449

Remember that in heaven or the heavenly realms, time is not similar to our time. It's hard to imagine, but both of those stories - the Muslim and Christian - could be right. Words like "before" are hard to use when describing a realm outside of our 4-dimensional (time) universe.

[MickyPapaG]

@THX1449 yeah I thought that was wrong. I am a christian myself and was sure that Lucifer craved to be as high or higher in power then god and that was his reason for being banished from heaven into "the lake of fire." aka Hell

[teddythefrency]

I saw the Course in psychology on Youtube with drawings and they are certainly not boring.

Thank you for this very interesting conference , very good demonstration.

It reminds me the sentence of the philosopher Blaise Pascal : "qui veut faire l'Ange fait la Bête" ("Who wants to do the Angel finally does the Beast").

[suutari13]

Abu Ghraib is just the tiny tip of the iceberg. Torture, rape , murder is the agenda of the jew controlled US army.

[Lolznator]

@suutari13 You're an idiot, even though part of what you say is probably right.

[LifeIsGoodLydie]

SITUATIONAL APPROACH: Good men and women corrupted by the behavioral context, by powerful situational forces. The Bad Barrel

When you look at a picture there is always a background. And then we say well may be these are good men , good soldiers who were corrupted by the behavioral context. That is by powerful situation force. So its not simply looking at the bad apples, we got to know about the barrel.

[LifeIsGoodLydie]

INCROYABLE SÉMINAIRE! THE BEST I HAVE EVER ATTENDED TO (ON LINE). A MUST WATCH ON ITS ENTIRETY.(11 PARTS)

" Dr. Phillip Zimbardo gave this class to Lawyers students Philip George Zimbardo (born March 23, 1933) is an American psychologist and a professor emeritus at Stanford University. He is known for his Stanford prison study and his authorship of introductory psychology textbooks for college students."

[saevaroa]

In the beginning there was Logos.

[Chuichupachichi]

Zimbardo has misunderstood. Evil & corruption had never existed until Lucifer caused it to exist. It was only because of his great beauty & abilities, above that of all other angels, that he became vain & exalted himself, proclaiming that his throne shall be above God's. Thus, the war & his expulsion

Without Lucifer's causation of evil, Adam, being a man on earth, would not have vainly imagined himself as greater than God

Ultimately, it comes down to "will". There had always been only

[weefeatures]

the Lucifer devil/angel concept is an analogy, not a literal example. This isn't about the bible.

[Chuichupachichi]

Things like this are always about the Bible. Go to 8:25 and listen again. He's literally speaking of the account given within the Bible, although he gets certain details incorrect. But most importantly, he gets the overall picture horrendously incorrect. Saying, very non analogously, Lucifer was right & God was wrong. The other people in this world who take such a position are some of them, the one's responsible for things like Abu Ghraib and the downfall in which our country is in the midst of

[Chuichupachichi]

I'm not saying Dr. Zimbardo wills such terrible things. Only that he should be aware of who shares some of his subscriptions and how dangerous those subscriptions can be. Now go to 5:00, he begins from the presupposition of that people are good & can be corrupted into evil. Obviously a Humanist. Yet, its strange when one considers the implications of the word "humanism", that he should have concluded by saying Lucifer was right, "one should not honor the human, Adam because he's corruptible"

[Chuichupachichi]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to bash Dr. Zimbardo, I actually like the guy. He's obviously very intelligent & knows much but at the core here, are profound things with cultural, societal ramifications & every bit of correctness put forth, counts. It's interesting to see the way in which predetermining humanists will rationalize an explanation contrary to all the evidence. Evolutionists do it all day long. Here, Dr. Zimbardo gives account of repeated studies all resulting in evil done by

[Chuichupachichi]

otherwise, decent people. That's statistical verification. Those studies' results, surprising to only a humanist, overwhelmingly show that mankind is inherently predisposed to doing wrong... evil. Look at how all of those good, normal people so easily took to doing evil like a duck takes to water. If we disregard how varied people define "wrong", but consider simply wrong in & of itself. Then its safe to say that nobody would say that they wish to do, or condone doing wrong. Although all are

[Chuichupachichi]

unanimously opposed 2 wrong, but yet, so much of it exists in the world...continually. You may think its due 2 the existence of many evil persons whom r at least indifferent to wrong. But westerners supporting the Iraqi war are opposed to the wrong of the villainous Muslims. While those Muslims are opposed to the wrong of the villainous westerners. No matter how villainous one may be perceived to be, all oppose wrong in their subscriptions. But to all, perfect righteousness is completely foreign

[megadombomb]

@Chuichupachichi aren't believes intriguing!?

[Chuichupachichi]

I'm not certain of what you mean by that. Can you please elaborate?

[ktonmu]

it wasnt lucifer who caused evil. it had to be someone else. lucifers mind was blank when he started to exist just as anyones child thats just born. lucifer learned evil from someone and he spread it. there was only good before evil

[scottasbj]

@ktonmu And just how did you come up with that? Don't make the mistake of trying to make sense out of what happens in the spirit world. It is outside of our knowledge.

[TheGreatCommission79]

um no pride began to grow in his mind,he wanted to be GOD, so he was ejected from heaven,then decided to try and rob GOD of his prized possession you me , man in general.

[nickleus1977]

some say that our intelligence has always existed. we never started out with blank minds. scripture teaches that we were blanked out when we were "sent to earth" (born), but our minds/souls existed before.

[Wraithofvolsunga]

@nickleus1977

yea, those "some" are called Scientologists.

[nickleus1977]

@Wraithofvolsunga i was actually thinking of mormons =)

[Diosibundo]

@ktonmu

Makes sense. If Lucifer's sin was "Pride" then who created "Pride" if not God when he created Lucifer? Couldn't he just as easily have created Lucifer without pride

It's a dopey, circular argument. You can't apply Logic to religion. It's by definition irrational.

If religion was rational it would be called "Science"

[Freudianer1]

@ktonmu

a mind from a child isnt blank

[Lilith8Kids]

please give us an example. I don't know anybody that remembers being inside mom.

[Freudianer1]

. (sorry my english isnt that good that i could explain it in my own words but there are many Books about it out there ,from notable Scientist . If you want some references,tell me.

[Freudianer1]

@Lilith8Kids I send you two links about the topic . I dont know i can put them on here

[whipmaster07]

@ktonmu that is very ignorant, if we are to take the Christian view on the origins of evil and such then the founder would be Lucifer not someone else, the only other who could would be God and that would certainly not help your argument here. The reason for evil is to balance the good and make it more valuable, no such thing as a perfect world, there needs to be evil so we value what we do have. Yin Yang that old concept (much older than Christianity btw)

[ritter89]

@whipmaster07 You do realize that Zimbardo is using the term Lucifer as a metaphor, correct? He's not speaking literally about religion or the devil. In fact, Zimbardo's an atheist. I think he chose that title to attract more general readers and sell more books. His theory makes no claims about evil having some sort of metaphysical purpose or design as your post suggests. He's talking about it within the context of human psychology and culture

[Chuichupachichi]

1 perfect will within all of existence. Then Lucifer added a 2nd will. An evil will simply by virtue of it being one other than God's. In the garden, it required that Satan use deception & beguiling with temptation of the same which tempted him. Saying, "you will be as God is". Thus, instigating the existence of yet, another will. Today, the slogan of Satanists is "do as thou wilst". The inverse of "thy will be done". Now there are countless wills & no man possesses the answer 4 a troubled world

[marlboro555555]

Re:

MrTraitorX - you've got them backwards. Lucifer was the morning star, for instance, in the bible (Old Testament) where it refers to Nebuchadnezzar as the morning star, it is to compare him to Satan (the adversary).

Re:

memorycardslut- I believe that was in the Zohar and/or Talmud.

[memorycardslut]

where in the bible does this part about lucifer refusing to bow 2 adam take place? he doesnt say

[MrTraitorX]

Lucifer was called the son of the morning. Jesus was called the morning star.

[AbouReslanJana]

disturbing? mmm...no

It is a beautiful book because in truth lies beauty. It's true..none of us is immune to evil put under dehumanizing conditions.

[XEpikurX]

It's good to demystify viciousness!

[atkrunner]

i love this theory... a lot of thing make much more sense from this viewpoint. In US, widespread police abuses (tasering) of innocent citizens is becoming a topic of discussion.

So many people say it is just a few bad apples, and the cops were bad before they joined the force. But this theory makes so much more sense.

[bookkeeper57]

I read Zimbardo's book a year ago. He doesn't try to mix psychology and religion.

You don't need to subscribe to a particular

religious viewpoint to understand the absolute nature of pure evil, or its opposite. That book was disturbing,

because it suggested that none of us

were immune from the moral risk we

pose to ourselves or others, when

placed in certain situations.

[CroMojo]

Eschatology teaches us that it's not business as usual, as the pagans believed in a cyclical existence. That is why we have time as AD, after death of Christ. Life is no longer cyclical it is moving to an end, a day of reckoning.

[444DeanMachine]

mixing psychology with a religion is like mixing cyanide and coca-cola, you'll still die from it even if you try to mix it with something good (referring to religion's folly)

[CroMojo]

I didn't mix it. Zimbardo did!

And I'm not religious, I'm just debating his freekin statement people! Please reply objectively.

[444DeanMachine]

sorry what you said was a little convoluded so you can understand the mix up. And I really haven't watched enough of Zimbardo, does he really mix religion with his psychology? That is totally weird, that went out like with Freud long ago. Psychology has to be secular due to it's subject matter you can't know a man's mind if your subjecting it to only certain myths that the people abide by. Ah you know what we need, a Santa Claus Psychologist, he only caters to people who believe in him :)

[BiteTheCurb786]

thats why zimbardo is god

[koneko2141]

its quite a good example. the example shows that its not the person but the situation in which the person is in that can shape the behavioural reaction.

[Troforso]

@koneko2141 ofcourse but still to a degree

[KharamiSunato]

@koneko2141 people make the situations &&& those who do anger / rage healing via meditations designed to excavate that greatly reduces un-needed rage.

[luigiperso]

@koneko2141 , like everything else, there are no absolutes, no 'either black or white'. Only shades of grey.

[CroMojo]

Professor Zimbardo loses with me when he states that there is evil in the world and the always will be and then proceeds to tell us about Adam and Eve and Lucifer. The problem is that Eschatology shows that there will not always be evil. So when he uses the Bible to frame his book he is making statements that according to the Bible (New Testament) are incorrect.

[yojimbo869]

Er... I think he was only using it as an example.

[CroMojo]

And your point is...