Now that Neil Yong is trashing the CD-format saying that the DSD format with 2.8224 MHz (Yes, MEGAhz!!) sample frequency is needed this video is more important than ever.
Every self-proclaimed audiophile should see this workshop.
Heck, every musician should do his own A/B-tests with 96 or 88.2 Khz vs 44.1 Khz in his DAW.
With vst-i;s I can't spot any difference even using mydecent system between 96 and 44.1 Khz.
So when your demonstrating the phase shift its set to dry... wet/dry and you have it on the right. Shouldn't it be on the left so we just hear the wet?? unless its inverted from the labeling...
@ent2186 The phase shift demo is set to 100% wet, so you hear only the phase shifted version. If it were 100% dry there'd be no effect, and anywhere in the middle would skew the frequency response. But I see what you mean, the way the control is labeled. It should say Dry/Wet.
I had a good laugh with this video on the start. There is one part about cheap soundcards vs expensive soundcards that is not mentioned but is quite an important aspect: Latency of recording vs what you hear and the performance of the soundcard processing multiple tracks at the same time. Now there you have a very substantial difference. But i guess you know musicians buy soundcards to process multiple tracks and not record single two channel cd's.
@vvoois Of course, latency and number of channels are important features of "music production" sound cards. But even budget cards can have low latency. My new i7 quad-core screamer can get down to 1 ms with a lowly SoundBlaster card.
@EthanWiner Sure they can. But i was never able to use more than a few channels with an onboard soundcard before i got crackles during recording. With or Asio4All seems to work a tad better, but not grab too high hopes on ASIO4all.
I do have a card which has some nice internal mixing facilities (So i can leech non-downloadable songs from the net anyway ;)). Cheers.
I keep reading in audiophile press that electrolytic capacitors have bad effect to the sound, if they are used, for example, in speaker crossovers. How much true is that, is it just another audio myth?
I keep hearing reading in audiophile press that electrolytic capacitors have bad effect to the sound, if they are used, for example, inside speaker crossovers. How much true is that, is it just another audio myth?
@Parkinson9999 Capacitors can affect the sound. High quality passive crossovers use caps that are better than electrolytic. But it's useful to keep this in perspective. If a poor capacitor adds 0.5 percent distortion to a woofer that itself has ten times more distortion, that's not the biggest problem.
I enjoyed this a lot and found it very informative and relaxing, cause I nitpick things like this. I will say this, on the examples, I picked every time which one was not truncated. I preferred the sound of the opposite track to it. They sounded like they had a little more breath in the upper frequency spectrums. I did the test on myself while looking away from the screen the first time watching the video. I would look at the screen when I heard what I liked, and it was always the non truncated.
@ech10 I'm aware that I'm on youtube, so what I say carries nearly no weight, but I'm not some troll looking to fire anything up. I'd love to test myself out more. This is so interesting to me.
I don't usually look for audiophile videos online much but I'm glad I did. I shy away from the whole arena due to the snake oil mentality. The ONLY magazine I have ever found helpful with audio related tips and gear spotlights was AUdioXpress out of Canada. They actually help you understand, just like your video series here. Your video smacks of full on intuitive TRUTH and is so refreshing to see this. You are a very gererous person to spend the time destroying the false notions in this Industry
@cursedlemon Thanks very much. I'm now writing a book about audio for a major publisher, and the book includes plenty of myth-busting. You can read a blurb on my site, linked at the top of my home page ethanwiner com.
What you think about quality of modern soundcard with top-rated DA-converters compared to external expensive audiophile devices like from Lavry or Apogee? For example, is the difference in sound quality between Asus Xonar DX ($75) with CS4398 DAC and Lavry DA10 ($1000) or other expensive DACs as much as audiophiles say?
@RightWhereItEnds I have no direct experience with those sound cards, so I'd just go by the specs. But generally, there's no need to spend a thousand dollars on a sound card to get very good fidelity.
@RightWhereItEnds the question is, do you think it sounds transparent? what is your line level sound with volume added WITHOUT music sounding like? Are you able to do that? Maybe best idea to use headphones to be super critical with a louder volume applied with no audio playing.. see if you hear buzzes, crackles, hums..ect. Then you can source the most applicable problems first. There's not much you can do with a recorded that has problems inherit.
@RightWhereItEnds - Generally what separates cheap and expensive sound-cards today is not the A/D or D/A converters but the quality of the mic preamps. So from a listening perspective there is going to be no meaningful difference (as Ethan suggests). From a recording perspective, if you are working at line-level, then there is going to be no meaningful difference. If you have a professional quality mic preamp and use it with an X-Fi you are going to get professional results.
@RightWhereItEnds - Generally what separates cheap and expensive sound-cards today is not the A/D or D/A converters but the quality of the mic preamps. So from a listening perspective there is going to be no meaningful difference (as Ethan suggests). From a recording perspective, if you are working at line-level, then there is going to be no meaningful difference. If you have a professional quality mic preamp and use it with an X-Fi you are going to get professional results.
@RightWhereItEnds - Generally what separates cheap and expensive sound-cards today is not the A/D or D/A converters but the quality of the mic preamps. So from a listening perspective there is going to be no meaningful difference. From a recording perspective, if you are working at line-level, then there is going to be no meaningful difference. If you have a professional quality mic preamp and use it with an X-Fi you are going to get professional results.
sorry for spamming but I have to say thank you again for taking away the power from those annoying condescendant know-it-all sales people :D I am selling my soundcard, buying a soundblaster and will go on holiday for the cash :D
hmmm...do hear a very subtle change in the dither examples.
highs are not as loud in the dithered version & thus
enhancing the feeling of more depth with mids & lows being more perceivable.
find it easier to listen to. & no, not pretending. :D
Very interesting. Thanks Ethan. :).
Love the section about EQ. Actually had a pretty embarrasing situation .thought I was tweaking the snare. It was the hihat. I was angry.so much bleed on the snare & engineer had not noticed. but it was actually me :D
Terrific video, Ethan. I'm rather light on knowledge about the physics of audio, but got a lot out of what you presented here. Previously, I'd read a few articles about audio myths, but this one was the most informative.
Assuming any "good quality" amplifier and source exists in your system, would the choice of speakers, their placement, the acoustics of the room have the greatest impact on ideal musical reproduction? Is there anything else beyond that?
@informant007 Thanks for the nice comments. I'm working now on a full book about audio, due out April 1, 2012. As for your question, yes, the room and speakers matter more than everything else, by a large margin.
@EthanWiner Thanks for your reply. :-) I'm continually amazed by the ongoing efforts by respected people in the audio industry showing higher reverence for tube amps over solid state. Is it just peer pressure? Or has their perception been so colored that they too are convinced that there is a difference? Or... is it kind of like fashion, where a decade from now after "new tube technology" has been exhausted, people will step back and admit that it was a dead end; solid state is tops again?
@bukkakebab I think you need to watch this video again! :->) Once you understand that DAWs don't have a sound, you'll be halfway there. While you're at it, watch my Gearslutz Converter Test here on YouTube, then go to my web site and download the files. If you think you can tell which files were recorded through the Lavry, M-Audio, and SoundBlaster, send me an email with your guesses.
Both of them are going to sound so horrible though, because you didn't use the latest Ultra POW-R 9 dither on the tracks before they went to YT's 128kbps converters. Shame on you, Ethan.
By the way, thank you very much for putting up this video, Ethan. Your work here is of great importance, and it's essential that we recognize the boundaries of human perception versus the actual effects of distortion down at 0.0001% THD, etc.
One thing I've been considering recently is the effect of the other senses on the way something sounds; in other words, why a precision double omni mic recording will still never "sound like being there" to people. Interesting stuff for sure.
@FreaqyFrequency Thanks for your nice comments. I'm working now on a book version of this video, and will be done by the end of this year. As for capturing the sound of being at a live event, there's more to it than just the fidelity of the microphones and other gear. See my Recorded Realism video here on YouTube which addresses some of that.
Very excited to see the book! Wishful thinking it might be, but if you and JJ were to collaborate on something it could be a home run. Of course, JJ likely already has literature of his own, so I'll settle for your expertise on the matters. If the article in Skeptic from last year was any indication, this book will have plenty of good content.
The Recorded Realism video is also excellent, I've watched it a couple times. Given the quality, are clips from it available elsewhere?
@FreaqyFrequency My book includes an expanded version of that Skeptic article, plus literally 100 times more. I'm not sure which clips you're asking about.
@JamieTateJamieTate Thanks for the heads-up. Wow, yes, some of those people are being pretty silly. What they fail to understand is the frailty and short-term nature of their own hearing. This is the next frontier in stamping out audio myths - getting people to understand that hearing is variable and not as reliable as they wish it were.
@westernNYnativ Vinyl fans confuse "euphonic distortion" with higher fidelity. A slight amount of added grit can sound pleasing, which is why analog tape, and software tape emulators, are also popular. Further, vinyl recording lathes often employ high frequency limiting in the signal chain to protect the expensive cutting heads. That processing can add an airy sheen to the sound. But none of this is higher fidelity.
I'm a layman so I'm not sure if the bit comparison is at 44,1kHz but it's interesting because I've rarely had problems with 224kbps VBR mp3 rips when in actuality that's 5 bits?
So I guess that with jazz band music going to higher bitrate that 320kbps would be noticeable? (I'm concerned for my portable player capacity).
@EthanWiner Oh, so it seems that bit depth means something else in the context of PCM format than in all non-PCM formats. It's just that I often see a comparison of various bitrates and the standard 1,4mbps bitrate and although all of them define the file size, the specific sample size has different effect on the sound quality depending on the format we use. Thanks :).
@U2GuitarTutorials Thanks. I'm now working on a full book version for a major publisher. With luck it will be done and in the stores by the end of the year.
Thank you Ethan for sharing your professional knowledge with us! It is very interesting.
I would like to know what do you think about electro-magnetic shielding for power cables in an audio (also video if you have opinion) application only for listening not recording?
I saw in your video that it is not worth it to spend money in a power cord. But I understood that basic Power cords are not shielded against EMI & RFI thus it creates some noise.
@icopal AC power has a very low impedance, so it's not susceptible to outside interference. Plus, where would you connect the shield to, and how would that improve anything? What really matters is if there's a change at the output of the connected amplifier or other device. I've never seen that with any replacement power cord.
Very nicely done. I wish I had this knowledge before I ever started recording. Spent a lot of time in research and purchases. Should be required learning for anyone associated with music making, production and audio electronics.
@Intenzity I just finished an article about this exact topic for Audio Solutions, a quarterly magazine put out by the GC Pro division of Guitar Center. I believe the magazine is free, so contact your nearest GC Pro dealer and ask to be put on their mailing list. This next issue with my article should be out very soon. Also, I'm writing a book now about advanced audio that will include even more detail about how DAW (and analog) summing works. But that won't be available until later this year.
@88res I'm on a lot of forums. I have my own acoustics forum at musicplayer, and I post about acoustics (only) at Gearslutz. For discussing the type of stuff in this video, the Audio Theory section at AVSForum is good, though that's more a hi-fi place than pro audio. Another good forum that does not censor rational talk about audio science is recordingreview. I usually post in the Nail The Sounds section. Add dot com to the above forum names.
Exceptionally well put together, Ethan! In this video you were like a Micheal Shermer for audio engineers....except maybe you have to be a little more tolerant of the opposite site.
The only logical counter is essentially philosophical relativism where if confidence of placebo toys makes you better, than you are better. Unfortunately, those are due to psychological inadequacies and not due to superior fidelity. Whether an audio sugar pill is worth it is another story.
@recordingreview Thanks for your comments. My intolerance is mainly toward those who advise others to waste their money on nonsense, as if the improvements are real. When someone asks honestly in an audio forum if expensive speaker wires are really better, they deserve an honest answer.
For modern CD mastering dithering and noise shaping are jokes. When mastered at -10dB RMS for an average song with brickwall limiting who can hear the differences between dithering and truncation?
---
An audiophile I know even claimed that the length of playlist in foobar2000 will affect sound quality, the longer the playlist, the poorer the sound quality LMAO
I've lurked on various boards you've contributed to and it's safe for me to say that you've not only saved me lots of money over the years but you've also reduced all the consumer anxiety I've experienced from time to time, leaving me free to record and write my music. Thanks for this video! You truly are a legendary myth-slayer...
im with you somethings about 65% the 40% im like okay wut in the world !!! you got alot of good info ! but i got tell im a avid Sonar(Sonar X-1B Producer) user there is a bigg difference between 44.1 k to 96k @ 24 bits its like night and day tell my old recording that lmbo !
@72cpugeek Comparing your past and current projects is not a valid way to assess whether 24/96 is better than 16/44. You need to record the exact same mic'd source both ways at the same time. Do that again, and let us know what you find. You're welcome to email me short Wave file snippets. Click my name and find your way to my web site. My email address is on my home page.
I've always suspected a lot of the things talked about in this vid. When you start recording music and enjoy doing so, you don't know anything and can get some good sounds. then you learn a thing or two and are paranoid you need a dedicated A/D converter and a fern tube pre before you can make great recordings. then you finally learn you can make great recordings on cheap "crap" because it's having good players and mixing skills that matter most. not how much money you spend on equipment.
Truncated sounds better than dithered. Maybe because the 24bit was 'quiet', meaning it only used 15 or so bits of dynamic range? Soundblaster Xfi was also better than appogee imho. I had a soundblaster audigy which was also excellent!!!
Interesting talk - I would like to hear the whole workshop uncut, so if anyone knows where I can find it, please let me know. The rest of the video was also interesting. I have been aware of the many myths that seem to float on invisible foundations regarding audiophiles and equipment. Ethan has a very logical approach, one which I wholeheartedly agree with - essentially he is saying that if it sounds right then it is right, and the weakest link in the chain is the listening environment.
@123decoeli The only place the entire live workshop exists is on my hard drive. If you'd like to visit me in western CT I'll be glad to let you watch it. This YouTube version has a much more complete version of my presentation, though JJ and Poppy''s interesting talks were cut quite a bit.
@EthanWiner I would love to visit you Ethan, but such a long way it is probably out of the question. I certainly did watch the entire video, and would highly reccommend it for those who find themselves on a slippery slope of continually buying gear, while ignoring room treatment, which is certainly the most important detail. For context I would still love to watch the full presentation, including and especially yours. Let me know if you decide to upload it.
@123decoeli I'm sure I won't upload it because 1) it's two hours long, and 2) I don't have permission to do that from the AES and the other participants.
@EthanWiner Are you allowed to distribute the presentation on a psysical media such as a CD or USB? - i would simply love to view the full presentation. I live in Europe, so a visit is no go. Best wishes!
@EthanWiner Sorry if it wasn't clear - i was thinking of the full uncut presentation. If there is any more valuable info, i would love to watch them. It's videos like these that confirm that i don't need exotic names on my power chords, speaker chords and remind me of what music is really all about..
@Anima87 The raw footage video files for the full presentation total more than 50 GB! So it would be very inconvenient (and expensive) to send to Europe. But really, the most interesting (IMO) parts are in this video here on YouTube.
@stewardsultry Yes, which ones "sound" better? Durability, meets spec for the required function. Price doesn't determine that. I've used cheap stuff that was crap as well as cheap stuff that was good. I've had pricey stuff fail, along with anything else. Leave the magic rocks off any cable, those little bags don't sound very good.
I was at this talk. It was excellent and informative. Michael Fremer and John Atkinson had a talk that Saturday about the increases in video quality recently and the corresponding "decreases" in sound quality. That talk sucked. Ethan's talk the next day had a cast of intelligent people giving well-reasoned arguments.
That really hits home. I was browsing internets to find useful information to choose a pair of new headphones and amount of nonsense about "musicality", "stage width" and "bass speed" made me want strangle people. Seriously, they seem to think a pair of headphones can change the way music was performed and recorded. Also nice experiment with sound blaster, shows how decent affordable audio techonology became.
so many audiophiles are full of sh*T ..there is tons of cheap mid and lower level gear that can sound fantastic..but the the individual must have a reference of quality.
Thank you for making this video. "Audiophiles" are the most gullible and narrowminded idiots I've ever had the displeasure of coming across. For what it's worth, I actually preferred the sound of the Soundblaster, something I thought I'd never say.
I use an at least 5 year old Windows XP system. I do not even know what truncation or dithering means, or which of them is a desirable property! For the examples you played at approx. 37 minutes, my ears liked Track 1, then Track 2 and then Track 2 again.
the most interesting stuff with the backward illusion is it work perfectly in english language but not in French, the illusion of earing some satanic word don't work in any language, but the other Psycho acoustic effect example are interesting.
@EthanWiner Holy shit I did not hear the cough at all even when I went back and listened to it again! Only now I've been told there is a cough can I hear it!
@EthanWiner I don't get it at all. Where is the 's' supposed to be? Or is it actually there and we're not supposed to hear it? Am totally confused by what she's trying to demonstrate.
@EthanWiner In illusion no.2 , could you please write what is being said by the speaker ... Otherwise this illusion seems to be a pack of nonsense . It just sounds edited . Please fill us in .
@rodsteel101 Poppy's example says, "The state governors met with their respective legislatures convening in the capitol city." The first 's' in 'legislatures' was edited out, but when someone coughs at that exact moment you hear the 's' anyway.
@leakeg you kind of made her point. The S isn't their either time. The distraction of the cough makes our brain fill in the S, even though its not there.
Phantastic! I´ve been experimenting myself for years and I´m happy to see that some of those who really "know" found out the same facts but they can explain them much better. I´ll send this link to some of my audiophile friends...
@sadeviant Recording the audio and video violated union rules, so we did this without permission. You'll notice a Zoom H2 on the dais, which was the best we could do. Amazingly, even though this video was made without permission, the AES found out and there's now a link to here from their own site. So I guess they like it!
I been to pretty much kind of audio seminar for years, and I can say this that you guys seminar is the best Ive seen yet ... I wish Japan has a seminar like you folks do... I might come to America just to attend haha
This is the best video ever for anyone in the audio industries. Ethan knows more than you can imagine, and he really shows you that his claims are true. This video made me a much more confident audio professional and i refer back to it often.
@stewardsultry Good cables are built well to last long, and also have low capacitance. As I said in the video, reliable gear - and this includes wire - is never a bad investment. But avoid paying very high prices for magic claims like "increased transparency."
Did anyone else notice the cough sound that played during the word legislator? It covered up the missing "s" sound. I thought this was an audio illusion, but I listened to it again and the recording she plays before and after is different. Anyone else notice this?
Ethan - thank you for posting this. So many audiophile mis-truths that get propagated time after time. Remember your audiophile friends who bought green sharpie markers to color the edges of their CDs?
this was a very good informative video. very interesting too. fav'ed it :)
i don't know if you or anyone can answer this but i have a cd player in mint condition and might use it as a source for my computer. it's a JVC XL-F108 cd player and it uses PEM-DD. i read it's a type of D/A or Dac source. is it good source to start from and be used as a dac source for other things?
@DIRENGREY097 I think a computer's built-in drive would be best because the CD data is read and processed without going through extra A/D/A conversions.
thanx for the response. i was going to use more of as a dac source really for my computer. i don't really listen to cds on my computer. i figured out how to hook it up tho. i appreciate the feedback. i plan on buying a pair of higher impedance headphones(hd 600's or 650's) too. do more expensive amps really make a drastic difference?
@DIRENGREY097 More expensive than what? :->) Seriously, I've seen great power amplifiers with very reasonable prices, and I've seen really expensive models that are horrible. The two worst power amps I ever saw cost more than $10,000.
really? didn't know that. well i was plan on buying a vintage stereo amplifier/receiver or even a tape deck with built-in amps cause i read older vintage stuff have a better headphone output then modern receivers. i was looking at stereo receivers cause i can find'em cheap online and it'll save me lots of money compared to something like the little dot MKVIII SE.
@EthanWiner "@DIRENGREY097 More expensive than what? :->) Seriously, I've seen great power amplifiers with very reasonable prices, and I've seen really expensive models that are horrible. The two worst power amps I ever saw cost more than $10,000." I saw this comment and I then replied asking: "Now is that because they cost so much or is that price not considered?"
@jayfulf Ah, now I see what you're asking about. Products meant for professional use are generally designed and built well. But for some reason, and lot of "high end audiophile" products seem to be made one at a time by amateurs in their basements. If you read magazines like Stereophile you'll see reviews of very expensive gear, praised with flowery adjectives. But then you see the test results and realize the gear is totally incompetent.
@jayfulf I buy speaker wire at Home Depot. Heavy lamp cord for short runs to smaller speakers, and Romex for long runs or for very large high-powered speakers. As for line level wires, I either solder my own or buy normal pro-quality wires from pro audio type shops.
@EthanWiner Amen for people who know what they are talking about. It makes me crazy when people think there is something magical or mysterious about some audiophile products and cabling.
Head-fi.org should show this entire video from every single user that is newly registered in order to save themselves from spending $120+ on ipod line out dock cables.
The truths are never told because Audio is a buisness, They are deceiving people on here with inadaquate information. Everyone can hear sound much much better on a good system, but what the hell is a good system some will say. Let me say that the way of playback and the frequencies do not equalize and we just her noise that is simular and interference that isnt corrected.
I don´t understand why these people hate audiophiles so much, we all know that what we are doing is a bit outside the common perception of worthwhile... what gets these people so angry. They gather to talk shit about audiophiles??? What a bunch of losers.
And if the mind is as fragile as they claim, obviously their m
"pop music" lol
slmtutorials 2 days ago
I could hear the phase shift though I never knew such a thing existed! It got noticeably worse sounding around the halfway mark.
garbulky 3 weeks ago
Now that Neil Yong is trashing the CD-format saying that the DSD format with 2.8224 MHz (Yes, MEGAhz!!) sample frequency is needed this video is more important than ever.
Every self-proclaimed audiophile should see this workshop.
Heck, every musician should do his own A/B-tests with 96 or 88.2 Khz vs 44.1 Khz in his DAW.
With vst-i;s I can't spot any difference even using mydecent system between 96 and 44.1 Khz.
MrModulator 3 weeks ago
Ethan, your Audio Expert book can't come soon enough. I'd like to have even a tiny bit of your expertise.
MrYoorr 1 month ago
@MrYoorr Thanks. If you email me from my web site ethanwiner (dot) com I'll add you to the list of people to notify when it's available in April.
EthanWiner 1 month ago
Thank you , very useful info
AndGz7 1 month ago in playlist Image-Line | Audio Quality
I am always produce in Linear and render in 512 :)
ostgur 1 month ago in playlist Image-Line | Audio Quality 11
Thanks for the video! I'm new to music production and this just saved me a ton of money I might have foolishly spent.
Noahaddavis 1 month ago
Ethan Winer rocks!
jasonhats 1 month ago
So when your demonstrating the phase shift its set to dry... wet/dry and you have it on the right. Shouldn't it be on the left so we just hear the wet?? unless its inverted from the labeling...
ent2186 2 months ago
@ent2186 The phase shift demo is set to 100% wet, so you hear only the phase shifted version. If it were 100% dry there'd be no effect, and anywhere in the middle would skew the frequency response. But I see what you mean, the way the control is labeled. It should say Dry/Wet.
EthanWiner 2 months ago
I had a good laugh with this video on the start. There is one part about cheap soundcards vs expensive soundcards that is not mentioned but is quite an important aspect: Latency of recording vs what you hear and the performance of the soundcard processing multiple tracks at the same time. Now there you have a very substantial difference. But i guess you know musicians buy soundcards to process multiple tracks and not record single two channel cd's.
vvoois 2 months ago
@vvoois Of course, latency and number of channels are important features of "music production" sound cards. But even budget cards can have low latency. My new i7 quad-core screamer can get down to 1 ms with a lowly SoundBlaster card.
EthanWiner 2 months ago
@EthanWiner Sure they can. But i was never able to use more than a few channels with an onboard soundcard before i got crackles during recording. With or Asio4All seems to work a tad better, but not grab too high hopes on ASIO4all.
I do have a card which has some nice internal mixing facilities (So i can leech non-downloadable songs from the net anyway ;)). Cheers.
vvoois 2 months ago
A CD demagnitizer, seriously???
and those other products :O
A person with just a tiny bit of common sense knows these things are stupid. Wow, that this stuff really exists...
14wasp 2 months ago
You guys rule. Thanks for being so clear.
leisureb 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hi Ethan,
I keep reading in audiophile press that electrolytic capacitors have bad effect to the sound, if they are used, for example, in speaker crossovers. How much true is that, is it just another audio myth?
Parkinson9999 2 months ago
Hi Ethan,
I keep hearing reading in audiophile press that electrolytic capacitors have bad effect to the sound, if they are used, for example, inside speaker crossovers. How much true is that, is it just another audio myth?
Parkinson9999 2 months ago
@Parkinson9999 Capacitors can affect the sound. High quality passive crossovers use caps that are better than electrolytic. But it's useful to keep this in perspective. If a poor capacitor adds 0.5 percent distortion to a woofer that itself has ten times more distortion, that's not the biggest problem.
EthanWiner 2 months ago
puppy crum is fucking hot.
greekpanther1 3 months ago
@greekpanther1 sorry if that was inappropriate
greekpanther1 3 months ago
is the best solution to buy a good set of headphones?
sigurdtk15 3 months ago
I enjoyed this a lot and found it very informative and relaxing, cause I nitpick things like this. I will say this, on the examples, I picked every time which one was not truncated. I preferred the sound of the opposite track to it. They sounded like they had a little more breath in the upper frequency spectrums. I did the test on myself while looking away from the screen the first time watching the video. I would look at the screen when I heard what I liked, and it was always the non truncated.
ech10 3 months ago
@ech10 I'm aware that I'm on youtube, so what I say carries nearly no weight, but I'm not some troll looking to fire anything up. I'd love to test myself out more. This is so interesting to me.
ech10 3 months ago
I don't usually look for audiophile videos online much but I'm glad I did. I shy away from the whole arena due to the snake oil mentality. The ONLY magazine I have ever found helpful with audio related tips and gear spotlights was AUdioXpress out of Canada. They actually help you understand, just like your video series here. Your video smacks of full on intuitive TRUTH and is so refreshing to see this. You are a very gererous person to spend the time destroying the false notions in this Industry
oatstao 4 months ago
Hi Ethan! I read a lot of your posts on Gearslutz, and I appreciate to a GREAT degree your mission to dispel audio mysticism. Cheers!
cursedlemon 4 months ago
@cursedlemon Thanks very much. I'm now writing a book about audio for a major publisher, and the book includes plenty of myth-busting. You can read a blurb on my site, linked at the top of my home page ethanwiner com.
EthanWiner 4 months ago
@EthanWiner cool, I would invest in this book. :D
oatstao 4 months ago
So much great information. And the sound in the recording is just fantastic!
saiyoucho 5 months ago
Thanks for taking the time to put all this together. I really learned a lot by watching it. Your effort is really appreciated a lot !
theomitrentsis 5 months ago
Very informative, thanks!
PHeMoX 5 months ago
Sorry for my bad English. I mean "top DA-converters". CS4398 is the best perfomance DAC from Cirrus-Lorgic.
RightWhereItEnds 5 months ago
Hi, Ethan! Thank you very much for video!
What you think about quality of modern soundcard with top-rated DA-converters compared to external expensive audiophile devices like from Lavry or Apogee? For example, is the difference in sound quality between Asus Xonar DX ($75) with CS4398 DAC and Lavry DA10 ($1000) or other expensive DACs as much as audiophiles say?
RightWhereItEnds 5 months ago
@RightWhereItEnds I have no direct experience with those sound cards, so I'd just go by the specs. But generally, there's no need to spend a thousand dollars on a sound card to get very good fidelity.
EthanWiner 5 months ago
@EthanWiner Thank you for answer.
What about mentioned Sound Blaster X-Fi? Do you think it sounds transparently for home listening?
RightWhereItEnds 5 months ago
@RightWhereItEnds Yes, modern SB cards are perfectly fine for home listening.
EthanWiner 5 months ago
@RightWhereItEnds the question is, do you think it sounds transparent? what is your line level sound with volume added WITHOUT music sounding like? Are you able to do that? Maybe best idea to use headphones to be super critical with a louder volume applied with no audio playing.. see if you hear buzzes, crackles, hums..ect. Then you can source the most applicable problems first. There's not much you can do with a recorded that has problems inherit.
oatstao 4 months ago
@RightWhereItEnds - Generally what separates cheap and expensive sound-cards today is not the A/D or D/A converters but the quality of the mic preamps. So from a listening perspective there is going to be no meaningful difference (as Ethan suggests). From a recording perspective, if you are working at line-level, then there is going to be no meaningful difference. If you have a professional quality mic preamp and use it with an X-Fi you are going to get professional results.
imageline 5 months ago
@RightWhereItEnds - Generally what separates cheap and expensive sound-cards today is not the A/D or D/A converters but the quality of the mic preamps. So from a listening perspective there is going to be no meaningful difference (as Ethan suggests). From a recording perspective, if you are working at line-level, then there is going to be no meaningful difference. If you have a professional quality mic preamp and use it with an X-Fi you are going to get professional results.
imageline 5 months ago
@RightWhereItEnds - Generally what separates cheap and expensive sound-cards today is not the A/D or D/A converters but the quality of the mic preamps. So from a listening perspective there is going to be no meaningful difference. From a recording perspective, if you are working at line-level, then there is going to be no meaningful difference. If you have a professional quality mic preamp and use it with an X-Fi you are going to get professional results.
imageline 5 months ago
I like the graph with Homer! That's easy enough for every one LOL
TheWizardofGore 6 months ago
sorry for spamming but I have to say thank you again for taking away the power from those annoying condescendant know-it-all sales people :D I am selling my soundcard, buying a soundblaster and will go on holiday for the cash :D
MrA5hton 6 months ago
ha tried it again. i win every time :) dithering works for me sorry...
MrA5hton 6 months ago
hmmm...do hear a very subtle change in the dither examples.
highs are not as loud in the dithered version & thus
enhancing the feeling of more depth with mids & lows being more perceivable.
find it easier to listen to. & no, not pretending. :D
Very interesting. Thanks Ethan. :).
Love the section about EQ. Actually had a pretty embarrasing situation .thought I was tweaking the snare. It was the hihat. I was angry.so much bleed on the snare & engineer had not noticed. but it was actually me :D
MrA5hton 6 months ago
Terrific video, Ethan. I'm rather light on knowledge about the physics of audio, but got a lot out of what you presented here. Previously, I'd read a few articles about audio myths, but this one was the most informative.
Assuming any "good quality" amplifier and source exists in your system, would the choice of speakers, their placement, the acoustics of the room have the greatest impact on ideal musical reproduction? Is there anything else beyond that?
informant007 6 months ago
@informant007 Thanks for the nice comments. I'm working now on a full book about audio, due out April 1, 2012. As for your question, yes, the room and speakers matter more than everything else, by a large margin.
EthanWiner 6 months ago
@EthanWiner Thanks for your reply. :-) I'm continually amazed by the ongoing efforts by respected people in the audio industry showing higher reverence for tube amps over solid state. Is it just peer pressure? Or has their perception been so colored that they too are convinced that there is a difference? Or... is it kind of like fashion, where a decade from now after "new tube technology" has been exhausted, people will step back and admit that it was a dead end; solid state is tops again?
informant007 5 months ago
This is excellent work and information Ethan! Thank you very much!
VenVile 6 months ago
This is the first video this long on youtube that I watched the whole way through. Thanks.
MultiParasite 6 months ago
This presentation is simply awesome. Finally someone against those myth worshippers on audio forums. Thanks Ethan.
ascendancycz 6 months ago
Just watched the part with Stairway, then reversed with the "message", looked at the views on the video... 130,666. >.< I hate coincidence sometimes.
MichaelTFrederic 7 months ago
@bukkakebab I think you need to watch this video again! :->) Once you understand that DAWs don't have a sound, you'll be halfway there. While you're at it, watch my Gearslutz Converter Test here on YouTube, then go to my web site and download the files. If you think you can tell which files were recorded through the Lavry, M-Audio, and SoundBlaster, send me an email with your guesses.
EthanWiner 7 months ago 8
@EthanWiner
Both of them are going to sound so horrible though, because you didn't use the latest Ultra POW-R 9 dither on the tracks before they went to YT's 128kbps converters. Shame on you, Ethan.
;)
FreaqyFrequency 7 months ago
By the way, thank you very much for putting up this video, Ethan. Your work here is of great importance, and it's essential that we recognize the boundaries of human perception versus the actual effects of distortion down at 0.0001% THD, etc.
One thing I've been considering recently is the effect of the other senses on the way something sounds; in other words, why a precision double omni mic recording will still never "sound like being there" to people. Interesting stuff for sure.
FreaqyFrequency 7 months ago
@FreaqyFrequency Thanks for your nice comments. I'm working now on a book version of this video, and will be done by the end of this year. As for capturing the sound of being at a live event, there's more to it than just the fidelity of the microphones and other gear. See my Recorded Realism video here on YouTube which addresses some of that.
EthanWiner 7 months ago
@EthanWiner
Very excited to see the book! Wishful thinking it might be, but if you and JJ were to collaborate on something it could be a home run. Of course, JJ likely already has literature of his own, so I'll settle for your expertise on the matters. If the article in Skeptic from last year was any indication, this book will have plenty of good content.
The Recorded Realism video is also excellent, I've watched it a couple times. Given the quality, are clips from it available elsewhere?
FreaqyFrequency 7 months ago
@FreaqyFrequency My book includes an expanded version of that Skeptic article, plus literally 100 times more. I'm not sure which clips you're asking about.
EthanWiner 7 months ago
At 09:21 captions says `lessons shitty`, hmm ...
Nice girl though.
Best part of the vid was goddams auditory which were sure they remebber the man, lol.
Dalsir1 7 months ago
This video is being discussed again at the Hoffman forum. The superstitions over there are rampant, bordering on religious denial.
JamieTateJamieTate 7 months ago
@JamieTateJamieTate Thanks for the heads-up. Wow, yes, some of those people are being pretty silly. What they fail to understand is the frailty and short-term nature of their own hearing. This is the next frontier in stamping out audio myths - getting people to understand that hearing is variable and not as reliable as they wish it were.
EthanWiner 7 months ago
If those 4 variables measure sound quality, why do analog purists claim vinyl sounds better than CD?
westernNYnativ 7 months ago
@westernNYnativ Vinyl fans confuse "euphonic distortion" with higher fidelity. A slight amount of added grit can sound pleasing, which is why analog tape, and software tape emulators, are also popular. Further, vinyl recording lathes often employ high frequency limiting in the signal chain to protect the expensive cutting heads. That processing can add an airy sheen to the sound. But none of this is higher fidelity.
EthanWiner 7 months ago
I prefer undithered, but that's prolly due to different melodies.
VCat2006 7 months ago
I'm a layman so I'm not sure if the bit comparison is at 44,1kHz but it's interesting because I've rarely had problems with 224kbps VBR mp3 rips when in actuality that's 5 bits?
So I guess that with jazz band music going to higher bitrate that 320kbps would be noticeable? (I'm concerned for my portable player capacity).
dizzt19 8 months ago
@dizzt19 I'm pretty sure the number of bits you're referring to is unrelated to the bit depth of the audio data.
EthanWiner 8 months ago
@EthanWiner Oh, so it seems that bit depth means something else in the context of PCM format than in all non-PCM formats. It's just that I often see a comparison of various bitrates and the standard 1,4mbps bitrate and although all of them define the file size, the specific sample size has different effect on the sound quality depending on the format we use. Thanks :).
dizzt19 8 months ago
This is an excellent video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Makes a lot of sense.
U2GuitarTutorials 8 months ago
@U2GuitarTutorials Thanks. I'm now working on a full book version for a major publisher. With luck it will be done and in the stores by the end of the year.
EthanWiner 8 months ago
Ethan, your music is wild.
Great presentation. Thanks.
jacobestes 8 months ago
Thank you Ethan for sharing your professional knowledge with us! It is very interesting.
I would like to know what do you think about electro-magnetic shielding for power cables in an audio (also video if you have opinion) application only for listening not recording?
I saw in your video that it is not worth it to spend money in a power cord. But I understood that basic Power cords are not shielded against EMI & RFI thus it creates some noise.
Thanks in advance (excuse my English I'm French!)
icopal 8 months ago
@icopal AC power has a very low impedance, so it's not susceptible to outside interference. Plus, where would you connect the shield to, and how would that improve anything? What really matters is if there's a change at the output of the connected amplifier or other device. I've never seen that with any replacement power cord.
EthanWiner 8 months ago
Very nicely done. I wish I had this knowledge before I ever started recording. Spent a lot of time in research and purchases. Should be required learning for anyone associated with music making, production and audio electronics.
DudleyaSetchellii 9 months ago
Awesome presentation!
Can you recommend a good source to read about summing and how that works in a DAW?
Intenzity 9 months ago
@Intenzity I just finished an article about this exact topic for Audio Solutions, a quarterly magazine put out by the GC Pro division of Guitar Center. I believe the magazine is free, so contact your nearest GC Pro dealer and ask to be put on their mailing list. This next issue with my article should be out very soon. Also, I'm writing a book now about advanced audio that will include even more detail about how DAW (and analog) summing works. But that won't be available until later this year.
EthanWiner 9 months ago
This workshop gave me orgasms for days! Nothing hotter than busted audio myths!
SoulProvider88 9 months ago
what forum are you on ethan?
88res 9 months ago
@88res I'm on a lot of forums. I have my own acoustics forum at musicplayer, and I post about acoustics (only) at Gearslutz. For discussing the type of stuff in this video, the Audio Theory section at AVSForum is good, though that's more a hi-fi place than pro audio. Another good forum that does not censor rational talk about audio science is recordingreview. I usually post in the Nail The Sounds section. Add dot com to the above forum names.
EthanWiner 9 months ago
I agree with you ethan, however I think you should use a MacBook instead of a Dell
1ino1eum 9 months ago
@1ino1eum No, a Dell sounds so much fuller and musical! ;)
jakobole 3 months ago
Excellent information! Thanks for the video!
BTW... Poppy Crum is Hott!!! :-)
JUKE179r 10 months ago
Comment removed
JUKE179r 10 months ago
Exceptionally well put together, Ethan! In this video you were like a Micheal Shermer for audio engineers....except maybe you have to be a little more tolerant of the opposite site.
The only logical counter is essentially philosophical relativism where if confidence of placebo toys makes you better, than you are better. Unfortunately, those are due to psychological inadequacies and not due to superior fidelity. Whether an audio sugar pill is worth it is another story.
recordingreview 10 months ago
@recordingreview Thanks for your comments. My intolerance is mainly toward those who advise others to waste their money on nonsense, as if the improvements are real. When someone asks honestly in an audio forum if expensive speaker wires are really better, they deserve an honest answer.
EthanWiner 10 months ago
Extremely fruitful video!
ToxicBassUK 10 months ago
For modern CD mastering dithering and noise shaping are jokes. When mastered at -10dB RMS for an average song with brickwall limiting who can hear the differences between dithering and truncation?
---
An audiophile I know even claimed that the length of playlist in foobar2000 will affect sound quality, the longer the playlist, the poorer the sound quality LMAO
ac252c 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the 4 audio parameters at 21:30 is an interesting discussion, thanks!
grahamspice 10 months ago
the 4 audio parameters at 21:30 is an interesting discussion, thanks!
grahamspice 10 months ago
When there was the alleged 666 I heard "tits and see" myself~
Gonnakillyou 10 months ago
Ethan..
I've lurked on various boards you've contributed to and it's safe for me to say that you've not only saved me lots of money over the years but you've also reduced all the consumer anxiety I've experienced from time to time, leaving me free to record and write my music. Thanks for this video! You truly are a legendary myth-slayer...
aross001 11 months ago
im with you somethings about 65% the 40% im like okay wut in the world !!! you got alot of good info ! but i got tell im a avid Sonar(Sonar X-1B Producer) user there is a bigg difference between 44.1 k to 96k @ 24 bits its like night and day tell my old recording that lmbo !
72cpugeek 11 months ago
@72cpugeek Comparing your past and current projects is not a valid way to assess whether 24/96 is better than 16/44. You need to record the exact same mic'd source both ways at the same time. Do that again, and let us know what you find. You're welcome to email me short Wave file snippets. Click my name and find your way to my web site. My email address is on my home page.
EthanWiner 11 months ago 7
@EthanWiner done deal
72cpugeek 11 months ago
@EthanWiner my suspicions confirmed. thanks
omaclay 10 months ago
@omaclay lol @ calling out a company that had a booth at the convention. that took guts!
joeytunez 9 months ago 5
Awesome video, Ethan! This stuff I like. I'll favorite and sub from the new channel.
Thanks for taking the time to do this.
pcwalker 11 months ago
poppy is cute.
emixolydian 11 months ago 3
@emixolydian I have the biggest crush on her.
polishbroadcast 11 months ago 3
I've always suspected a lot of the things talked about in this vid. When you start recording music and enjoy doing so, you don't know anything and can get some good sounds. then you learn a thing or two and are paranoid you need a dedicated A/D converter and a fern tube pre before you can make great recordings. then you finally learn you can make great recordings on cheap "crap" because it's having good players and mixing skills that matter most. not how much money you spend on equipment.
pixeltarian 1 year ago
Truncated sounds better than dithered. Maybe because the 24bit was 'quiet', meaning it only used 15 or so bits of dynamic range? Soundblaster Xfi was also better than appogee imho. I had a soundblaster audigy which was also excellent!!!
joecapaldi 1 year ago
Interesting talk - I would like to hear the whole workshop uncut, so if anyone knows where I can find it, please let me know. The rest of the video was also interesting. I have been aware of the many myths that seem to float on invisible foundations regarding audiophiles and equipment. Ethan has a very logical approach, one which I wholeheartedly agree with - essentially he is saying that if it sounds right then it is right, and the weakest link in the chain is the listening environment.
123decoeli 1 year ago
@123decoeli The only place the entire live workshop exists is on my hard drive. If you'd like to visit me in western CT I'll be glad to let you watch it. This YouTube version has a much more complete version of my presentation, though JJ and Poppy''s interesting talks were cut quite a bit.
EthanWiner 1 year ago
@EthanWiner I would love to visit you Ethan, but such a long way it is probably out of the question. I certainly did watch the entire video, and would highly reccommend it for those who find themselves on a slippery slope of continually buying gear, while ignoring room treatment, which is certainly the most important detail. For context I would still love to watch the full presentation, including and especially yours. Let me know if you decide to upload it.
123decoeli 1 year ago
@123decoeli I'm sure I won't upload it because 1) it's two hours long, and 2) I don't have permission to do that from the AES and the other participants.
EthanWiner 1 year ago
@EthanWiner Are you allowed to distribute the presentation on a psysical media such as a CD or USB? - i would simply love to view the full presentation. I live in Europe, so a visit is no go. Best wishes!
Anima87 1 year ago
@Anima87 Why can't you just watch it here?
EthanWiner 1 year ago
@EthanWiner Sorry if it wasn't clear - i was thinking of the full uncut presentation. If there is any more valuable info, i would love to watch them. It's videos like these that confirm that i don't need exotic names on my power chords, speaker chords and remind me of what music is really all about..
Anima87 1 year ago
@Anima87 The raw footage video files for the full presentation total more than 50 GB! So it would be very inconvenient (and expensive) to send to Europe. But really, the most interesting (IMO) parts are in this video here on YouTube.
EthanWiner 1 year ago
Comment removed
123decoeli 1 year ago
Comment removed
123decoeli 1 year ago
@stewardsultry Yes, which ones "sound" better? Durability, meets spec for the required function. Price doesn't determine that. I've used cheap stuff that was crap as well as cheap stuff that was good. I've had pricey stuff fail, along with anything else. Leave the magic rocks off any cable, those little bags don't sound very good.
cengeb 1 year ago
What won't an audiophile believe?
cengeb 1 year ago
I was at this talk. It was excellent and informative. Michael Fremer and John Atkinson had a talk that Saturday about the increases in video quality recently and the corresponding "decreases" in sound quality. That talk sucked. Ethan's talk the next day had a cast of intelligent people giving well-reasoned arguments.
Also, Poppy Crum. Awesome.
Muftobration 1 year ago 3
That really hits home. I was browsing internets to find useful information to choose a pair of new headphones and amount of nonsense about "musicality", "stage width" and "bass speed" made me want strangle people. Seriously, they seem to think a pair of headphones can change the way music was performed and recorded. Also nice experiment with sound blaster, shows how decent affordable audio techonology became.
ZeeKat 1 year ago
so many audiophiles are full of sh*T ..there is tons of cheap mid and lower level gear that can sound fantastic..but the the individual must have a reference of quality.
without artficial means and gadgetry
discoAL 1 year ago
Oh look. 10 people believe in unicorns.
sugarkang 1 year ago
Tal Wilkenfeld at 30:33 is the hottest bestest jazziestest girliest bassist AROUND!
bobfishbomb 1 year ago
well, this sure saved me some money. When it comes to the physics, all is equal.
Thank You Mr Winer
juliedog464 1 year ago
Thank you for making this video. "Audiophiles" are the most gullible and narrowminded idiots I've ever had the displeasure of coming across. For what it's worth, I actually preferred the sound of the Soundblaster, something I thought I'd never say.
HolyKatana 1 year ago 3
I use an at least 5 year old Windows XP system. I do not even know what truncation or dithering means, or which of them is a desirable property! For the examples you played at approx. 37 minutes, my ears liked Track 1, then Track 2 and then Track 2 again.
znkp 1 year ago
Poppy come up to Toronto I can show you around honey :O)
tokyozee 1 year ago
Excellent presentation. Thank you very much for uploading it.
jimbobg65 1 year ago
the most interesting stuff with the backward illusion is it work perfectly in english language but not in French, the illusion of earing some satanic word don't work in any language, but the other Psycho acoustic effect example are interesting.
Meteotrance 1 year ago
Poppy Crum would so get it :D
dioxide74 1 year ago 2
we need more videos like this !
jimg0007 1 year ago
re: 12:10, I hear you!
Catch33 1 year ago
thanks for curing me of these myths!
elijahlucian 1 year ago
What is Poppy Crums second illusion supposed to show?
She is playing one audio file with the "S" in it, and the other without, so what?
leakeg 1 year ago
@leakeg When you hear the person cough, your ear / brain fills in the "s" sound of the narrator, even though the "s" is not really there.
EthanWiner 1 year ago
@EthanWiner Holy shit I did not hear the cough at all even when I went back and listened to it again! Only now I've been told there is a cough can I hear it!
leakeg 1 year ago
@leakeg i didn't hear it at first, i rewound it 4 times
jonesconrad1 1 year ago
@EthanWiner I don't get it at all. Where is the 's' supposed to be? Or is it actually there and we're not supposed to hear it? Am totally confused by what she's trying to demonstrate.
steevmsteevm 1 year ago
@EthanWiner In illusion no.2 , could you please write what is being said by the speaker ... Otherwise this illusion seems to be a pack of nonsense . It just sounds edited . Please fill us in .
rodsteel101 1 year ago
@rodsteel101 Poppy's example says, "The state governors met with their respective legislatures convening in the capitol city." The first 's' in 'legislatures' was edited out, but when someone coughs at that exact moment you hear the 's' anyway.
EthanWiner 1 year ago
@EthanWiner
i'm not sure i *hear* 'S', i simply assume it's there because i'm hearing a word i know to feature this consonant which is just masked by cough
but i guess would not be able to assert that it's indeed there because cough prevented me from actually *hearing* it
BayanTheOne 1 year ago
@leakeg i think you just proved the illsuion you heard an s when all there was a cough
jonesconrad1 1 year ago
@jonesconrad1 haha yeah I didn't hear the cough at all until I went back and listened to it yet again just now.
leakeg 1 year ago
@leakeg you kind of made her point. The S isn't their either time. The distraction of the cough makes our brain fill in the S, even though its not there.
fjrabon 1 year ago
Phantastic! I´ve been experimenting myself for years and I´m happy to see that some of those who really "know" found out the same facts but they can explain them much better. I´ll send this link to some of my audiophile friends...
Thank you!
bretzelesser 1 year ago
I like that no one in this group of audio experts thought to get audio from the mixing board.
sadeviant 1 year ago
@sadeviant Recording the audio and video violated union rules, so we did this without permission. You'll notice a Zoom H2 on the dais, which was the best we could do. Amazingly, even though this video was made without permission, the AES found out and there's now a link to here from their own site. So I guess they like it!
EthanWiner 1 year ago
I been to pretty much kind of audio seminar for years, and I can say this that you guys seminar is the best Ive seen yet ... I wish Japan has a seminar like you folks do... I might come to America just to attend haha
djaq000arkadian 1 year ago
I just saw that 8 people have disliked this video. Which audio companies do those guys work for? LOL....unbelievable.
elevatesounds 1 year ago 7
This is the best video ever for anyone in the audio industries. Ethan knows more than you can imagine, and he really shows you that his claims are true. This video made me a much more confident audio professional and i refer back to it often.
Thanks Ethan.
elevatesounds 1 year ago
@stewardsultry Good cables are built well to last long, and also have low capacitance. As I said in the video, reliable gear - and this includes wire - is never a bad investment. But avoid paying very high prices for magic claims like "increased transparency."
EthanWiner 1 year ago
Hi you have changed the way I look at gear. Thank you for this. I am going to share this video with everyone.
maltcus 1 year ago
Did anyone else notice the cough sound that played during the word legislator? It covered up the missing "s" sound. I thought this was an audio illusion, but I listened to it again and the recording she plays before and after is different. Anyone else notice this?
Tm0g762 1 year ago
Ethan - thank you for posting this. So many audiophile mis-truths that get propagated time after time. Remember your audiophile friends who bought green sharpie markers to color the edges of their CDs?
steinsternnicht 1 year ago
this was a very good informative video. very interesting too. fav'ed it :)
i don't know if you or anyone can answer this but i have a cd player in mint condition and might use it as a source for my computer. it's a JVC XL-F108 cd player and it uses PEM-DD. i read it's a type of D/A or Dac source. is it good source to start from and be used as a dac source for other things?
DIRENGREY097 1 year ago
@DIRENGREY097 I think a computer's built-in drive would be best because the CD data is read and processed without going through extra A/D/A conversions.
EthanWiner 1 year ago
@EthanWiner
thanx for the response. i was going to use more of as a dac source really for my computer. i don't really listen to cds on my computer. i figured out how to hook it up tho. i appreciate the feedback. i plan on buying a pair of higher impedance headphones(hd 600's or 650's) too. do more expensive amps really make a drastic difference?
DIRENGREY097 1 year ago
@DIRENGREY097 More expensive than what? :->) Seriously, I've seen great power amplifiers with very reasonable prices, and I've seen really expensive models that are horrible. The two worst power amps I ever saw cost more than $10,000.
EthanWiner 1 year ago
@EthanWiner
really? didn't know that. well i was plan on buying a vintage stereo amplifier/receiver or even a tape deck with built-in amps cause i read older vintage stuff have a better headphone output then modern receivers. i was looking at stereo receivers cause i can find'em cheap online and it'll save me lots of money compared to something like the little dot MKVIII SE.
DIRENGREY097 1 year ago
@EthanWiner Now is that because they cost so much or is that price not considered?
jayfulf 1 year ago
@jayfulf What comment of mine are you asking about?
EthanWiner 1 year ago
@EthanWiner "@DIRENGREY097 More expensive than what? :->) Seriously, I've seen great power amplifiers with very reasonable prices, and I've seen really expensive models that are horrible. The two worst power amps I ever saw cost more than $10,000." I saw this comment and I then replied asking: "Now is that because they cost so much or is that price not considered?"
jayfulf 1 year ago
@jayfulf Ah, now I see what you're asking about. Products meant for professional use are generally designed and built well. But for some reason, and lot of "high end audiophile" products seem to be made one at a time by amateurs in their basements. If you read magazines like Stereophile you'll see reviews of very expensive gear, praised with flowery adjectives. But then you see the test results and realize the gear is totally incompetent.
EthanWiner 1 year ago
@EthanWiner Hmm a snake oil industry. Thanks for the info, any companies that you would recommend as far as speaker wire/interconnects go?
jayfulf 1 year ago
@jayfulf I buy speaker wire at Home Depot. Heavy lamp cord for short runs to smaller speakers, and Romex for long runs or for very large high-powered speakers. As for line level wires, I either solder my own or buy normal pro-quality wires from pro audio type shops.
EthanWiner 1 year ago
@EthanWiner Amen for people who know what they are talking about. It makes me crazy when people think there is something magical or mysterious about some audiophile products and cabling.
svtcontour 1 year ago
Head-fi.org should show this entire video from every single user that is newly registered in order to save themselves from spending $120+ on ipod line out dock cables.
ggn1 1 year ago
@ggn1
Fruitcake-fi bans people for talking sense because it's a paid advertising playground.
nameunavailableffs 1 year ago
@ Ethan. What do you mean by the comment in the video about "propellerhead territory"? Are you referring to reason users?
thenaughtymangareth 1 year ago
@thenaughtymangareth No, not Reason. Propellorhead is a euphemism for a tech geek type person. Google "propellor beanie" for more.
EthanWiner 1 year ago
What forum are you guys referring to when you say "the forum"?
austinyun 1 year ago
@austinyun We mentioned both Gearslutz and Stereophile.
EthanWiner 1 year ago
The truths are never told because Audio is a buisness, They are deceiving people on here with inadaquate information. Everyone can hear sound much much better on a good system, but what the hell is a good system some will say. Let me say that the way of playback and the frequencies do not equalize and we just her noise that is simular and interference that isnt corrected.
benjyboba 1 year ago
You ever notice its only OLD people who need a super amazing sound system? It's called AGE. Your hearing is going.
You will never hear as good as you did when you were 20. Sorry. That is life...
dajebus 1 year ago
I don´t understand why these people hate audiophiles so much, we all know that what we are doing is a bit outside the common perception of worthwhile... what gets these people so angry. They gather to talk shit about audiophiles??? What a bunch of losers.
And if the mind is as fragile as they claim, obviously their m