Shaw's Caesar and Cleopatra (1976 TV--Alec Guinness) 6 of 7

[laugher986]

cleopatra isnt a baby shes actually pretty tough...they make her look like a wimp

[jhaisia]

im actually studying her she had no egyptian blood in her aint that some shit

[jhaisia]

wait a minute so cleopatra wasnt even egyptian...wtf..she was white damn aint that some shit...its egypt suppose to be controlled by egyptians and her nationality is 0% egyptian....wow find somethin new every fckin day

[jhaisia]

@wwdancwe690 thats pretty stupid to say Cleopatra was 100% egyptian not greek!!!

[Wwdancwe690]

My only objection is to this ludicrously inaccurate portrayal of these characters and events.

[mose3]

"And so, to the end of history, murder shall breed murder, always in the name of right and honor and peace, until the gods are tired of blood and create a race that can understand."

- George Bernard Shaw "Caesar and Cleopatra"

[Rayarena]

This has to be the most misogynous portrayal of Cleopatra ever. I know that it was written so many years ago when male/female relationships were quite inequitable, but  Cleopatra, is the ruler of a country, a queen, and yet she is depicted childlike and weak, totally dependent on Caesar the wise ruler.

[Pussycatfeathers]

liz taylor was the best cleopatra ever!

[Shahrazad7]

i thought cleopatra had some african roots. this woman doesnt look like she has any african in her at all

[Wwdancwe690]

She was Greek, mostly.

[Niteowl128]

@Wwdancwe690 Cleopatra was Half Greek and Half Egyptian. Just as her younger sister Arsinoe and younger brothers the Ptolemies.

[Wwdancwe690]

Most of the knowledge of their heritage is known only by the fact that we know that the Ptolemy's were Greek more specifically Macedonian. It is a Greek name that came from a Greek general, one of Alexander the Great's. What I account for and indeed, common knowledge is that Egypt was concurred by Alexander, and given to Ptolemy after he had died.

[Wwdancwe690]

cont.. What is clear is that there is evidence that the family could have later mixed. They intermarried so they weren't all marrying out, but they got it from somewhere and it is an Egyptian tradition. They also believe they found the remains of Arsinoe, bit there was no skull. They made a 3d image out of what records they had left of the dimensions of her skull and what they found is that she had traditional European traits. They also found traces of traits that appear African.

[Niteowl128]

@Wwdancwe690 Cleopatra's maternity is unknown Some believe she's Cleopatra V Tryphaena's daughter;she was his sister or a female Ptolemaic family member who was the child of Ptolemy X & Cleopatra Berenice III Philopator Cleopatra VII was born around the time the death of Cleopatra V Tryphaena, so its uncertain. Cleo's father, was an illegitimate son of Ptolemy IX . Not born of his chief wife, showing that children of secondary wives can rule. Its a misconception that miscegenation did not occur

[Wwdancwe690]

Quite true, which is why she would often say her mother was Isis. Again many of these theories are just as the word suggests. We are not certain but the inter-family marriages were Egyptian, I am referring to incest, a practice not looked well upon by Greeks. One can't prove from her family line that there was miscegenation, in the case of Cleopatra, since the exact lineages are incomplete.

[Wwdancwe690]

@Niteowl128 However, it is extremely unlikely that it did not occur. Again from the remains of Arsinoe suggests miscegenation was very possible.

[Niteowl128]

@Wwdancwe690 I was agreeing to the fact that Cleopatra VII and her younger siblings were at least half Egyptian.

[Rayarena]

Cleopatra didn't look African at all. She was of pure Macedonian ancestry.

[Niteowl128]

@Rayarena That is incredibly unlikely, the Ptolemies had been in Egypt for about 300 years and miscegenation was bound to have occurred. Father of Cleopatra VII, Auletes' maternity is unknown. One of his nicknames was 'Nothos,' which is Greek for bastard. Auletes' mother may have been an Egyptian courtier or concubine. The Ptolemies also believed themselves to be Egyptian and assimilated fully into Egyptian culture.

[Rayarena]

@Niteowl128 All of Cleopatra's paternal ancestors are accounted for & they were all Macedonians. I believe that the unknown factor is the mother. How likely is it for a xenophobic family like the Ptolemies who didn't even speak Egyptian until hundreds of years later [Cleopatra was the first, I believe to speak Egyptian as well as several other languages] to intermarry? She could have had some African in her, but there is no evidence, just wishful thinking on the part of afrocentrics.

[Niteowl128]

@Rayarena, The Ptolemies were not as Xenophobic as you think, especially since in all of their monuments and hieroglyphics they depict themselves as Egyptians, not as Macedonian Greeks.Cleopatra being the only one in her entire 300 family history to speak Egyptian is unproven and is conjecture. They have just discovered Arsinöe IV's remain in Turkey. Her skeletal remains indicate that she had African lineage, so it would not be surprising if the same can be said about Cleopatra VII

[Rayarena]

@Niteowl128 Of course the Ptolemies depicted themselves as Egyptians, they were ruling a foreign country and couldn't afford to be so brash and publicly rub their foreignness in the eyes of their subjects. However, in private, they were notorious for keeping their Greek ways such as their language and bloodline.

Sorry, but the experts are conjecturing that the remains are those of Arsinöe IV, but they don't know for sure.

[Niteowl128]

@Rayarena Where did you get this information? I have read a number of books on Ptolemaic Egypt and have never heard they were anti-Egyptian. The Ptolemies never identified as Egyptians, and neither did their contemporaries. And how cut throat that family was, I wouldn't be surprised if the royal bloodline had Nile water in their veins.

[Rayarena]

@Niteowl128 I think that my comment was misinterpreted. I didn't mean to say that they were anti-Egyptian, rather that they proudly stuck to their Macedonian bloodline and tongue--this after hundreds of years in Egypt. In fact, I heard in some documentary that Cleopatra was the first Ptolemy to speak Egyptian. This doesn't mean that they were anti-Egyptian. Cleopatra for example tried to built a great empire and secure Egypt's independence, obviously, this would have been good for Egypt.

[klobbs]

if i was ceasar id have made a deal with the devil then crawfished and drilled that queen in the ass

[GreatGrumbledook]

CAESAR: "Do you hear? These knockers at your gate are also believers in vengeance and in stabbing. You have slain their leader: it is right that they shall slay you. If you doubt it, ask your four counsellors here. And then in the name of that right shall I not slay them for murdering their Queen, and be slain in my turn by their countrymen as the invader of their fatherland? Can Rome do less then than slay these slayers, too, to shew the world how Rome avenges her sons and her honor."

[chris812125]

They should not have made Cleopatra like such a scared baby.

[Niteowl128]

@chris812125 If you were uncertain about what reaction Julius Caesar was going to have after finding out you ordered someone to be murdered, I bet you'd be pretty scared too.

[tinasattler1]

i love this

[christophmahler]

WHAT AN AMAZING SZENE !

How could it be put in words ?