Steffi Graf vs Monica Seles Us Open 1995

[McClernand4]

Don't pay attention to him : he's a poor lunatic, locked in the sad room of his asylum, having nothing to do but polluting the web with bullshits, on a (very cheap) computer offered to him by a charity...

[tenniscollector]

@TheMrSchopp Thanks mate. Yeah he can't accept reality can he. Who let arsiking out of his cage ? 

[pics2share]

I was trying to figure out what Graf looked like. Goat, it is! Agassi sure went from

one extreme to the next!!!

[artisking1]

Sure, riiiiigggghhhhttt, no problem, my retarded nitwit friend....just stay calm.......

everything will be OK........

[tenniscollector]

Hey arsiking1, There are Seles fans and there are Seles arsekissers.  LOL LOL LOL

[artisking1]

@tenniscollector

Sure, Crazy, no problem, my disturbed Nitwit Asian Friend....just take a deep breath, the men in little white coats are coming soon......

[tenniscollector]

@artisking1 Steffi Graf is GOAT. Accept the fact, LOL LOL LOL

[artisking1]

@tenniscollector

Sure, right, no problem, my retarded Asian Nitwit......just stay calm....everything will be ok........

[tenniscollector]

@artisking1 Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Steffi Graf is GOAT, Accept the fact and move on with your life LOL....

[Mopzboy]

@tenniscollector she didnt get stabbed

[McClernand4]

@Mopzboy

No, she suffered much worse...

[Hoffenheim08]

@McClernand4

I agree.

Being humiliated repeatedly by her father's actions (sex scandal, tax evasion scandal) is worse than a small stab wound. After all Seles had all support in the world after this unfortunate stabbing incident.

[tenniscollector]

artisking1 as I said once before, I like Seles and Graf equally. I'm more of a Chris Evert fan. But IT's A FACT,  Steffi Graf is GOAT!!!! Get on with your life, you Seles arsekisser!

[tenniscollector]

Jeez!!!  You two guys too funny. Seles and Graf arsekissers tooing and froing about a match from 18 years before...

Yep the 41 winners can't be right. Where did you get that statistic from?

[McClernand2]

On her own side, Seles seems unable to move on and find her inner balance, going from depression to depression, from bulimia to anorexia and dating old men, apparently more for their wealth than for their human qualities...

This shows the huge difference of personality and value between Steffi Graf and Monica Seles, as well on the tennis as on the human matter. A difference that isnt to the benefit of Monica, to say the least.

[hazyskye]

@McClernand2 Since when did Monica ever have bulimia or anorexia? Binge eating does not constitute anorexia or bulmia. Both are serious physiological conditions, neither of which Seles ever had. Secondly, perhaps Monica selected her 'older' partner due to common interests and a mutual understanding of life in the spotlight, rather than his fiscal attainments. It would be nice to see you use solid evidence in your arguments, rather than just your opinion.

[McClernand2]

@hazyskye

I did, in my previous posts.

[Hoffenheim08]

@hazyskye

Seles had eating disorder problems even before the stabbing.

This is well recorded.

[artisking1]

@Hoffenheim08

No she didn't, Homohoffie......and please stop switching screen names you total sissy......

its very boring....

by the way, did you get the dress i sent u?

[McClernand2]

And when Steffi retired, she had the resources to build a new life, developing other matters of interest, grounding a family (giving birth to two children) and creating a charity (Children for Tomorrow) for the children and teenagers traumatized by wars and persecutions. Besides, she has managed to keep incredibly fit, having still an awesome figure, and a shape of a top athlete. We could get a good insight of it when she played with Kim Clijsters at Wimbledon, on the 17th of May 2009.

[McClernand2]

Nevertheless, Steffi was strong enough to overcome this hardship, in the same way she had been strong enough to overcome her physical pains and injuries. She had the guts to meet the lawyers and prosecutors, to clear all that bloody stuff and prove her own innocence while setting straight the mistakes that might have been committed before. She set up her own society so as to make sure this never happens again and all that while she was still (and so successfully) playing !

[McClernand2]

And some outspoken SWINES werent even afraid of BLAMING Steffi for that, for this inequality of public coverageas if it had been a privilege for the Graf family to see their own father covered with mud publicly, and as if the Seles family should have been jealous of them for that ! Do you think Monica would have enjoyed seeing the medical bulletin of her father being published on the front page of all the papers of the world every day ?

[McClernand2]

Some people are going to remind me Monica went herself through a very sad time, with the cancer and the death of her beloved father (may he RIP, by the way). However, and without wanting to undermine at all the toughness of such an experience (I lost myself my father a few years ago, after a long agony), it remains a natural and inevitable one : it is in the order of things to lose ones parents one day no matter what a grief it always is.

[McClernand2]

Second, she started to suffer from unbearable injuries at the ankle and the knee, that prevented her from playing the 96 AO (thanks goodness for Monica) and mostly plagued her 97 and 98 seasons. Without all those injuries and ailments, Steffi might well have completed a double consecutive Grand Slam, before enriching her record with quite a good deal of additional GS more, and overtaking Margaret Court thus as soon as 1997 !!

[McClernand2]

And yet, Steffi Graf had also her share of ordeals and sufferings to struggle with : first, she had her back pains, that were much more painful than Monicas light wound, and that could never be totally healed (unlike Monicas wound). Those pains prevented her from winning the 1994 US Open and taking part to the 1995 AO. Many specialists even thought she would have to end her career because of them, as soon as the end of 1994 or the spring of 1995.

[McClernand2]

Of course, some people are going to tell me that Monica was victim of an aggression, but I repeat it : this attack, no matter how shameful it was for the tennis world, had no big physical incidence. Anyway, Seles isnt the only one person on earth to have been stabbed : my own nephew was, a few years ago (a part of his bowel even popped out of his belly). Railway or subway employees, policemen and common people are stabbed every day in the street, in the train or in the tube.

[McClernand2]

Had such a tragedy not happened, Steffi might well have never lost her 1st ranking, and Monica might have never captured the least GS.

[McClernand2]

It is easy to see : before the scandal broke out, Steffi had won 8 GS out of the last 9 she had played (and she would more than certainly had scored full marks, hadnt she been so sick by the 89 FO final). Moreover, she remained on 66 victories in a row. When that dingy affair was eventually over, Steffi had lost all her titles, her 1st world place and tended to be defeated more and more often by players she used to dominate before the scandal (like Novotna or Sabatini).

[McClernand2]

Steffi Graf stands clearly far above Monica Seles, in the tennis History (and not only in it). It is proved by quite a deal of undisputable facts :

If Seles managed to take over the number one ranking in March 91, it is mostly because the first scandal around Steffis father had wrecked Steffis inner balance, her home happiness and the unity of her parents, whom she cared so much for.

[McClernand]

Ich gratuliere für deine Unterstützung, Hoffenheim !

[Hoffenheim08]

@McClernand

Always at your service!

[JAMIAWALA]

Wow! What a fantastic match. I like how they hug each other after the match. Today, I find Venus as the only player with a great game and also the grace of the old players. Rest lack either or both..

[StewNWT]

don't forget Clijsters, she's the most liked player on tour

[dogstaff]

Will you all stop already. Both were great players. You denigrate both with your demeaning comments. They don't hate each other as champions of the sport. Yet those of you who are their fans behave so poorly over an incident that neither had control over in 1993. .

[jess4metoo]

If Monica had won this match it would have set the outcome of the rest of her career. She was robbed! Strange how in the FO in '98 she also won the second with a bagel.

[Hoffenheim08]

There are woulda-coulda people in life - and there are winners.

You are a woulda-coulda girl.

[jess4metoo]

I'm a guy you stupid idiot! I'm honest about my age too, I noticed your not.

[majesticgraf]

whenever people talk about tennis legends,they simply name the great steffi graf...no one names seles,she has been forgotten so fast...and why should anyone remember her,there´s no reason why.

so,I adore you steffi!

[Hoffenheim08]

Seles played 6 slam finals against Graf, winning 3 of them.

[nickly03]

ma che cazzo dici la graff ha solo vinto tanto grazie all incidente che ha subito monica,che nel suo momento migliore è stata sicuramente superiore alla graf

[McClernand]

E la Seles fu numero 1 solo grazie al lavoro horribile della stampa tedesca in 1990 !!

[mari2679]

Esos eran partidos de tennis..dos jugadoras espectaculares,ya no hay como ellas!!

[gech100505]

Absolutely agreed RogerPetes!!!

Monica dominated Steffi when both were at her peak.

3 years before the stabbing April 1990-Stabbing In 1990 Monica was only 16 LOL!!!

GS won: Monica 8 - Graf 2

head to head: Monica 4 - Graf 3

GS finals: Monica 3 - Graf 1

And Monica was only a teenager.

Monica defeated Steffi to become number 1. Steffi became #1 as a direct consequence of the stabbing.

Everybody knows that.

[Hoffenheim08]

Graf was at her peak in 1990-93??

You are joking, no?

[ladymcphee]

This is one hell of a match. Atmosphere akin to an epic battle between 2 gladiators during ancient Roman empire. Both players were at their best here notwithstanding physical or psychological problems. Both wanted to win badly this day. Great memories

[fedexgreat]

(continued)

With Seles unable to get over that gory incident psychologically, Graff regained her mental composure and thereafter brooked no resistance from any quarter.

[fedexgreat]

I admire the tenacity of this Hoffenheim Grafan nut who maintain otherwise in the teeth of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I wish I had a fan that was this fanatical, demented and blind. LOL

[fedexgreat]

Hoffenheim nut nazi boy ... Are you paid to act dumb around here, or is it just your GraFan frustration showing..?

[lovemonicaseles]

Hoffenheim can you pls f** off with your hate speeches?

[juju1305]

i think he's kind of retarded... but you gotta give him credit for succeeding in pissing every one off.

One should not wonder that Monica got stabbed when you read comments by people like him... Sounds like he would have been more than happy to hand the knife over to Gunther...

[Hoffenheim08]

What about

"peak Graf was far better than peak Seles"

didn't make it to your screen?

[juju1305]

If it makes you happy...

[JacquesHsu]

If Monica had taken the first set, maybe the history should be re-written. In addtion, maybe the confidence may lead Monica to more GS titles.

[Piercethat]

This wud have been a dream GS back for seles, she was feckin robbed in the tie-break! Hawk eye was 11 years too late! Bastards! Love steffi but love monica a bit more, she really deserved the title after the results she had leading to the final. She looks so fit and fast in this clip! Thanks for uploading (altho I couldnt bring myself to watch the last set highlights - too sad)!

[Hoffenheim08]

She looked fit and fast?

I thought, Selesians mythology has it that "Seles never was the same player again" after the 1993 stabbing, an excuse for every loss until the end in 2003.

[Piercethat]

Ur right, I would argue that she was never the same after the stabbing but she did train very hard for this comeback in '95 so she did shift a lot of weight which is why she was so successful. After this the weight came back and the results were not as great.

I wouldn't use her stabbing as an excuse for all her losses, just most of them.

[Hoffenheim08]

She had many injuries.

Same with Graf from age 22 onwards.

Graf managed to win slams though. Seles didn't.

[fedexgreat]

But a study of Steffi Graff's career graph before and after the Monica Seles stabbing incident reveals a different picture, as Seles definitely had Graff's number prior to that episode, so much so that `Fraulein forehand' was low on self-confidence (in the years 1990 to 1993) and losing to players she was till then beating easily. The mental edge that Seles had over Graff disappeared as it were, thanks to the knife-edge of a xenophobic Graff fan.

[Hoffenheim08]

Seles definitely didn't even have Graf number pre-stabbing.

Steffi led her 6-4 H2H.

3-2 when Seles was #1.

Seles had a considerable lead on Graf in the WTA rankings at the end of 1991 (58 pts.). Just before the stabbing Steffi had narrowed that to a mere 21 pts. Steffi was set to overtake Monica at the FO 93 anyway.

[jayfey77]

ur an idiot if u think graf would have beaten seles at the french in 93 since graf couldnt even beat seles at the australian in 93 especially since seles outaced graf in that match overpowering her 8 aces to grafs 1.

[Hoffenheim08]

The AO ReboundAce surface was Seles's best and Graf's worst. Seles leads Graf 2-0 on it.

Clay is a different matter, Graf won 6 FOs, has a higher winning percentage than Seles. Was 1-1 H2H on clay when Seles was #1 pre-stabbing. Seles won only with 10-8 in the 3rd set at FO 92. And we all know that Graf was better in 93 than in 92. I don't see how Seles could have beaten Graf in the FO 93 final (assuming Seles would have made it to the finals).

[jayfey77]

because in 93 seles was hitting more aces than graf and much stronger it was the first match that seles ever outaced graf thats why seles would have won the french in 93 she was stronger than graf entering her prime.

[Hoffenheim08]

Steffi hit more winners in the AO 93 final than Seles.

Even in the third set (9-5).

Seles was not better in January - April 1993 than in January - April 1992. Steffi was better in 1993 than in 1992 as we all know.

[jayfey77]

seles was stronger in 93 no longer the young kid graf could over power the 8-1 aces by seles proves that it was the first time seles outaced graf in a match seles was entering her prime and you know it.

[Hoffenheim08]

I don't think Seles hit more than 3 aces in that match.

BTW, Seles lost to a 36-year-old (!) Navratilova a few weeks later. So much about "peak Seles".

Peak 88/89 Graf would never have been able to lose against a 31/32-year-old Navi. Never ever!

[jayfey77]

i got the match up to prove you wrong seles hit 8 aces maybe even 9.and seles gave that match to martina i mean she beat her so many times prior to that.

[Hoffenheim08]

I have rewatched the match. Seles hit 3 aces.

And Seles being #1 but losing to a 36-year-old?

Getting whipped 2-6 1-6 in the most prestigious slam (Wimbledon)?

Losing 3 of 5 matches against the then #2 player?

Not a very convincing #1 in my book ...

[jayfey77]

haha seles hit 8 aces they show the stat at the end and you are wrong.i provide video proof and still ur in denial amazing,u cant count that wimb final due to seles not grunting because of graf threatening to complain which i provide video proof also with newspapers showing this.

[juju1305]

indeed, she hit more aces in that match than throughout the rest of the tournament, the statistics are shown onscreen.

Both Seles and Graf lost one match to Navratilova in early 1993.

Furthermore how could seles have a better jan-april 1993 record than in 1992 since she was sidelined with a virus.

Hoffenheim should get a life and a skilled shrink!

[Hoffenheim08]

In Jan-April 1993 Seles won 30 sets and lost 6.

In Jan-April 1992 Seles won 54 sets and lost 4.

You think if Seles had not been sidelined for some weeks in 1993 she would have lost LESS sets ... ?

You are some moron ...

[juju1305]

you are sick...

anyway, if it was so obvious that all your statements reflect the truth and the beliefs shared by all tennis fans, why could you be wasting your time posting like hell on every single video?

You obviously try to convince eveyone, but nobody cares :)

Get a life, grab your raquet, go play (or try to) and stop waking in front of your steffi posters.

She has a real man and doesn't need some pale Parche-wannabe sick geek in her life. And give us ALL here a rest.

[Hoffenheim08]

You should get a life.

It's YOU and your loony pals who live in woulda-coulda fantasy land. Oh, oh, oh, if only POOR Monica had not been stabbed! She woulda-coulda-shoulda ...

[juju1305]

i do have a life poor idiot.

I played tennis with a wonderful 24 year old girl this morning and sung in front of approx. 1000 people tonite.

Monica is a great human being, but she is not everything for me. I admire her for overcoming the horrible things she went through.

You are a despicable person.

[Hoffenheim08]

LOL!

A choir boy!

[juju1305]

i sing solo moron

[Hoffenheim08]

LOL!

What's a "solo moron"?

Some sort of clown in an opera?

[juju1305]

no, that would apply to you :)

[heninwarrior]

I know this sounds crazy but do you think it is even possible Hoffenheim08 is Gunther Parche himself posting from his aunts basement?

[juju1305]

i thought this too. But Parche was supposed to be mentally debilitated. Hoffenheim shows lots of resources and a more than decent command of english. Maybe it's not Parche, but his aunt posting from her own basement ;)

thanks for this morning laugh :)

[Hoffenheim08]

Parche was a retard. He even thought he might help Graf by taking Seles out for a few months.

[heninwarrior]

LOL and how was this wrong. You do know Seles beat Graf in 2 slam finals in the last year before the stabbing correct.

[Hoffenheim08]

Seles won FO 92 with 6-2 3-6 10-8

Graf won Wim 92 with 6-2 6-1

Seles won AO 4-6 6-3 6-2

Graf won the most prestigious one.

Seles was 2-1 in slam matches, 4-4 in sets and 38-39 in sets against Graf. Hardly any sign for the future ...

AND Graf won 2 of 2 (non-slam) matches when Seles was already #1 in 1991. Although 1991 was Graf's worst year in 1987-96.

[heninwarrior]

The fact remains Seles still did beat Graf in 2 slam finals in the last year before the stabbing. Seles was younger than Graf by over 4 years. Graf was not slumping anymore in 92-93. Yes in 90-91 she was in a bad slump and Seles and alot of others benefited from that. However by 92 and 93 Seles had improved so much that even out of her slump Graf was having a hard time beating Seles in big matches outside of grass.

[Hoffenheim08]

Graf of 93-96 was considerably better than Graf of 91-93.

And what do you want to say by Seles was 4 years younger?

[McClernand]

anyway, for bastards of your kind, all the peple who don't loathe Steffi Graf can only be clones of Gunther Parche..

[McClernand]

You poor schmuck...

[ROGERPETES]

No, you simply do not Hoffen Grafan. Your numbers have been disproved (or shown to be manipulated to distortion) and your facts are limited to falsehoods, exaggerations and convenient omissions and distortions.

You believe you can simply scream the same propaganda over and over and somehow your repetitiveness will make your fantasies become truth.

[Hoffenheim08]

@bomb692001

Seles didn't grunt, she screamed.

Both is cheating. Period.

[artisking1]

@Hoffenheim08

A TOTAL LIE.......

In the Final of the Aussie Open 1993, Seles completely outhit Graf in EVERY single department......

...Seles hit more FOREHAND winners, BH winners, more service winners, more aces, higher % of first serve, Higher SPEED MPH of serve, etc etc...

Seles 31-21 in winners.....7-1 in aces (incredible domination on serve......)

Next time, try telling the truth. You make Graf look really bad when you feel you have to LIE for her.

LOL.

[Hoffenheim08]

@artisking1

Seles outhit Steffi in every department?

While making only 86 vs. 78 points against her?

LOL, you are giving fags a bad name, son ...

[artisking1]

@Hoffenheim08

LOL, LOL,LOL.....Are you joking, Sissy? Stop projecting and calling everyone fag!

YOU ARE GAY! REALLY GAY. I mean, gay as a man-purse at a Judy Garland Fan Club meeting.....you have an alias, "GrafGirl", and your page to dedicated to "Women's Ice Skating"!

MY God, Missy, break down that closet door, my frustrated GErman Frau!

And yes, Seles Killed Graf, 31-21 in winners, and 7-1 aces!

[Hoffenheim08]

@artisking1

In the Wimbledon 92 final Steffi killed Seles with 41-14 winners ...

[artisking1]

@Hoffenheim08

LOL, LOL, LOL.......hahahahahaaha......!

GRAF HIT 41-14 against Seles in WiMBY 1992 Final?????......THAT IS TOTAL BULLSHIT......LOL, LOL, LOL......

Graf hit 27 to 14 winners.......YOU MORON!

That match was won by Seles ERRORS, 16 in all.......

God you are such a SISSY LIAR.....

Hey Sissy, why don't you post under GrafGirl and talk about Women's Ice Skating, because clearly I have HURT your feeling so badly that you can't tell the truth anymore......

What a sissy!

[artisking1]

@artisking1

Oh wait, I'm sorry....I have a CORRECTION!.....Graf didn't even hit 27 winners in the WIMBY 1992 Final!

She hit 23 winners! So maybe Hoffie, you are just a ball faced LIAR?

Where did you get the number 41 from, Stupid?

Did you just make it up, Sissy?

WOW, what a LIAR you are....Graf would be EMBARRASSED to have fan like you.....

LOL......you lose again.....

[Hoffenheim08]

@artisking1

Graf made 69 points, that's a fact.

41 winners. Plus 28 Seles unforced errors.

27 winners and only 16 Seles UEs??

You are dense, very dense, fag ...

[artisking1]

@Hoffenheim08

Total LIES, Sissy HomoHoffie.......But who would be surprised, Sissy?

You ALWAY LIE about Stats, Sissy......a few months back, you said that Graf hit 39-36 winners in HER LOSS to Seles in the Aussie Open Final 1993.

I HUMILIATED you by listing the correct stats (31-21 Seles) and a record of the match to prove it, and Like the COWARD you are, you RAN AWAY.

And NO ONE believes you, Sissy..not even tennis collector, you hates me, is laughing at you, Sissy......

LOL,LOL, LOL....

[tenniscollector]

@artisking1 There's no doubt about it, Graf is greatest of all time (and that's coming from an Chris Evert fan)!

[tenniscollector]

@Hoffenheim08 There's no doubt about it, Graf is GOAT....

[artisking1]

@tenniscollector

Oh Look, the two Sissies agree, and are dating....LOL, LOL, LOL......

Honestly tennis collector, I must have REALLY hurt your feelings for you to play Sides...

..Are you really 41??????!!!!!!

More like a 12 year old school girl!

[ROGERPETES]

Seles and Graff squared off for 3 years when both were at peak. Seles DOMINATED the confrontation 8-2/3-1. What else is there to say? When both were at their best, Seles was clearly BETTER!

[Hoffenheim08]

When Graf was #2 in in 1991-93 she definitely was not "at her peak" (lost many matches to Sabatini/Novotna types).

She won most of her matches against Seles, though.

Again - peak Seles had a losing record against a slumping Graf. Enough said ...

[juju1305]

This is wrong. You're rewriting things based on the final career numbers.

In april 1993, Seles had 3 FO wins in 4 participations, Graf 2 in 10!!! with 3 final losses, 1 to ASV, 2 to Seles.

On rebound Ace, Graf had won in her first 3 attempts and made the final in 1993, after missing 1992 ans losing to novotna in QF 1991. At that point she had a better record on Rebound ace than on the FO's clay...

And if you think she was that dominant, watch her FO final against MJF. She wasn't...

[serenakicksass]

What a bunch of bullshit. If you think Seles would have continued dominating like she did in the early 90s for all those years you are nuts. Most of Seles's losses since her comeback from the stabbing would have happened anyway, and pretty much every loss from 1998 onwards atleast.

[jayfey77]

graf won 3 grand slams in 93 her only grand slam loss in 93 was to seles at the australian open before seles got stabbed if seles hadnt been stabbed she would have won the french again and the masters and probably the us open a 3rd time in a row only a retarded fool like u would disagree.

[fedexgreat]

Hoffen-nazi nut boy, do you bother to pay attention at all? The point is that grafan dummies like yourself should keep in mind that Graff's slam total was inflated due to the Seles knifing.

[Hoffenheim08]

I don't think so. 1 or 2 slams maximum.

But Selles's slam tally was inflated bigtime due to the Graf Blackmail Scandal in 1990-92. Otherwise Selles never would have reached the #1 spot.

[juju1305]

Seles is spelled with 1 L moron!

[jess4metoo]

Or should we call you Gunter?

[whfan007]

That serve on set point for Monica was clearly an ace. She was robbed from that match. :(

[BLACKTREAT]

YES I AGREE

[Hoffenheim08]

The ball was out.

[jess4metoo]

Fuck you, you German!

[Hoffenheim08]

Fuck you, you North Korean!