Again I ask the same very simple straight forward question. Please PROVE how beliefs are "known" to be "true"? When this is accomplished, then you can convert billions. Just give some religious Proof?
@maginatorgia Well, begin with the argument from contingency for God's existence. It definitively shows that God exists. Then we can take it from there.
@maginatorgia I've laid it out over and over again on these forums. Take a look at Robert Spitzer's version. You'll see that it very elegantly proves God's existence.
Robert Spitzer's ? This is your "chosen" forum. You need to stand up for your your claims & prove them yourself. So far you give references & no self proof of God's existence. Yet you outrageously claim also that you "laid it all out". Pretty presumptuous of you! All your presumptions & conjectures are passing the burden of proof on someone or someplace else, is only going to make you lose believers. Now give your proof already, please?
Are you asking him to prove that God exists in a 500 character comment on YouTube?
Humanity has been trying to answer the question you're asking since the beginning of history! There is no one piece of proof that will quell all doubts about it.
You must realize that the question you're asking is incredibly complex. If you don't treat it that way, you will never get a proper answer.
I like a priest who is not afraid to answer questions and doesn't block people when he is caught and feels hurt to his sensitivity. I like this. Are you one of them?
@maginatorgia Well, I've engaged thousands of people on these forums and have answered in excess of ten thousand questions. On very rare occasions, I will block someone who has become obscene or who, in my judgment, is no longer contributing constructively to the conversation.
No one criticizes religion when they only request PROOF! No one is an "enemy" of the faith when they only request PROOF! There is no PROOF that "defends" the faith! There is only convoluted conjectures of stories and speeches, without PROOF. Please PROVE that beliefs are "known" to be "true"? When this is accomplished then you'll convert billions. Just give us some religious Proof?
Okay Mr Barron - just answer this one question: how many people, including women and children, were killed by the Catholic Church during the "crusades" and the "inquisition"?
I reject anything that a religion - with a history of violence and whose hands is overflowing with blood of innocents - can say or claim.
@godigutierrez A quick answer: far, far fewer than is claimed by secularist and anti-Catholic historians. Take a look at Rodney Stark's "The Triumph of Christianity" for the details. Also, far, far, far fewer than have been killed by secularist and materialist ideologies. Consult the history of the twentieth century for details. And friend, finally, you've got to be muc more careful with your language. Bad Catholics have done a lot of bad things--not necessarily "the Church."
@wordonfirevideo Okay, Mr. "Someone who cannot even use his real name here" - tell me how many less people did the Catholic Church murdered during the "crusades" and the "Inquisition"? !0 million? 9 million? 8 million? 7 million? 6 million? 5 million? 4 million? 3 million?
I reject anything that a hypocritical religion - who burned alive a young girl after being declared a witch by the church's inquisition, only to later proclaim her a saint of their own - can say or claim.
We are called to Judge an act (not a person) if and only if, we are saintly. God also warns us, Judge not lest ye be judged.
Let’s put it this way – if you are without sin jeseus says go for it and judge, but only someone’s actions, not them! Also realise that in doing it, you are accepting that they will judge you harshly and so will God.
So, if you are right with god and without sin, judge sparingly, and with an eye through the New Testament only!!!
The only disagreement I may have is the use of the term "self esteem" when the proper term is ego gratification. The two are actually polar opposites. True self esteem involves accepting oneself as they truly are, warts and all. Ego is to have an inflated view of one's own importance. Someone with a huge ego is someone who really doesn't accept themselves as they truly are. It actually can be a sign of self loathing. This culture confuses the two in many cases, but not all.
Father Barron, my kudos and appreciation for clarifying the difference between judging, and being judgemental. Keeping mum about someone else's trivial or properly subjective issues (bad taste, for example) may be fine, but my understanding is that salvation requires an acknowledgement on our part of our sinful nature. We can't be forgiven if we can't confess. Think of mealy mouthed "Sorry if you were offended" non-apologies. That's why Pride is the deadliest sin of all, n'est ce pas?
There is also a sinister aspect to these shows, which mimic the methods used in Neuro-Linguistic Programming seminars, which try to increase tension & generate uncertainty in participants, who are picked on, shouted at, & humiliated by the trainers in front of everyone, just like in these shows! Vicious language is used ON PURPOSE to make participants feel uncomfortable, and the end result is to induce an "Alpha State of Suggestibility" in the subjects...a sinister kind of hypnotic mind-control.
So, they came up with the concept of the final justice, the ultimate justice, or the ultimate application of justice -- "Judgement Day"! Where, on the "end of days", all sinners who will eventually go to eternal hell will be on god's left, and those on the right will go to heaven. This culture is so obsessed with vengeance and revenge - so much so, that they would not only pursue perpetrators to the ends of the earth, but also to the ends of life, and even the afterlife!
Believers of Abrahamic religions are so concerned with justice and its application -- they are so obsessed with it - they even invented a god that is ALL-JUST. Why? If not to punish -- and get their vengeance in the afterlife -- people that have done them or other people harm. If they are not able to have their revenge in this life, with a god that is all-just, they are assured that those people will get what they deserved in the afterlife.
@godigutierrez Come on, friend, that's entirely too cynical. Tell a slave or an Auschwitz victim that it's entirely a matter of indifference that there is an unconditioned source of justice.
@wordonfirevideo - It is not a matter of indifference. What I am saying is that this culture is so obsessed with "justice" and people are using it to justify their violence. In short, people would rather just ignore the principle of solidarity, that says, "Treat others as you want them to treat you" and just go with the principle of this so-called "justice" -- which is really masked revenge -- that says, "Treat others as they deserved to be treated".
@godigutierrez Well, okay. I agree that there are people who misuse or misappropriate the idea of the divine justice. But don't blame the "Abrahamic religions" for teaching that justice!!
@godigutierrez It's interesting that you point out this justice-obsession as a fault. You do a great paraphrase of Nietzsche's dialectic of master morality and slave morality. Master morality religions are great for being non-judgemental because they are simply trying to maintain an oppressive social order. There is nothing to blame: the top people are on top and the bottom are on the bottom. But in a slave morality religion, there is plenty of blame because it is trying to highlight oppression.
this man needs to debate richard dawkins or christopher hitchens. he is obviously the most articulate and intelligent catholic alive, so let him test his faith against a legitimate, equally intelligent athiest. Dawkins will systematically breakdown even his most articulate arguments in favor of god and show him, along with all the catholics who witness it, what it true. that believing in god is simply irrational and a fucking waste of time.
Father, please upload this video again. It stops at 3:59. I am so glad to find a very intellectual yet understandable presentation of the Faith. Thank you.
Here's my problem with the "authentic judgement" of the Catholic Church: it condemns me for not having the same viewpoint, which is bordering on despotic. As a nonbeliever, the Church condemns me to Hell, even though I have made my best efforts to try to believe, and I'm doubly condemned because I used to be Catholic and now don't find solace in it. Living an honest and moral life seems genuine to me, but God will condemn my to Hell for my doubt according to Church dogma as I understand it.
@misterzonker2584 Hello stranger. Extra ecclesia nulla salus as I know it does not mean that you are doomed to hell, but that if indeed you do reach heaven, it is because of the graces that flow from the Church.
I've been through my own struggles, but one very short paragraph that can help you (as it reinforced my faith) is the Wikipedia article here: /wiki/Miracles#Catholic_Church
Catholic miracles are scientifically valid! That's pretty cool.Thers Saints, Eucharistic and apparition miracles.
@misterzonker2584 I use to be where you were. As you said you did your best efforts to try and believe. Try doing just a bit more research into the whole damnation thing. I would recommend looking at Fr. Barron's comments on Hell and specifically Mathew 25, the Judgment of nations.
@Derrickoify Matthew 25 is exactly where my problem lies. How is it just to condemn someone to "eternal punishment," whatever that is, for an offense committed during a finite period of time? Even the worst crime doesn't justify endless torment, whether it be physical, separation from the being who created you, whatever. Adding to that is that non-belief in something is an offense? What's so bad about being a doubting Thomas when God created those conditions for doubt in the first place?
@Derrickoify It's not like I got to see Jesus's miracles, unlike the witnesses of the Bible (who then don't really need faith to believe in what they clearly saw with their own eyes, do they?). How is it responsible of God to get his people to rely on a contradictory book in place of actually communing with him through non-disputable means? And by that I mean create a way to verify that he actually exists and not need "faith" for what is literally the most important decision you can make!
@misterzonker2584 First off the bible has no contradictions as long as you take the context in which it was written, just like every thing else we read. The last question you will have to look for yourself. The Truth is important for everyone to know, I'm not specifically saying to go Catholic or go home, but the understanding that Truth is out there in the first place. Arguments over which Truth, does not mean there is no Truth. Science doesn't replace religion as it is a different paradigm.
@Derrickoify The Bible is contradictory, but never mind that. Your comments on Truth still don't address what I was saying about the moral unacceptibility of eternal punishment. I can accept the idea of divine justice, should that entail a notion of Hell, but I can't accept that people will suffer endlessly there. Also problematic is the notion that you must believe the right things to get to heaven, as opposed to good works. Sola scriptura or faith and good works, the problem still remains.
@misterzonker2584 the ultimate decision is not based solely on the Church but by what God decides. Whether you can make a choice after you die is unknown. There are plenty of scenarios where things end up with people who are not of the Church to go to Heaven.
@Derrickoify That's a side issue, again not addressing the real moral problem I believe the New Testament presents. Clearly you don't see it that way, but for some reason you keep coming back to inerrancy. That's not what I'm getting at. How so many Christians have no issues with the idea of eternal punishment (and I know because I've brought it up to several of them, and they didn't bat an eye, thinking somehow that it is justifiable for a simple lack of faith) is astounding to me.
@misterzonker2584 what it comes down to is the person who goes to hell is the person who chooses not to love God,at the final judgment. Whenever that may be. It is not God condemning you, it is you choosing not to be with him. You have to have Hell, purgatory and Heaven for the three options given off by Free will. Hell= No love, Purgatory=Love with pain, and Heaven=Love with no pain. I have a problem with my fellow man going to Hell ,I do but it is not my choice to do his love.
@Derrickoify Did you really just say the bible has NO contradictions?! Wow you must be deluded....How do you know that the bible is the "Truth" and how do you know it was inspired by God?
@Derrickoify Wow, acutally there are many contradictions regarding Jesus' birth, life and resurrection to name a few. But since you claim its accurate, I guess the Biblical accounts of God performing, sanctioning or encouraging murder, rape, genocide and human sacrifice are true and reflect God's moral character?
This video is incredible to me. Judgement is an aspect of my faith that I struggle with, and when I listen to arguments about judgement by guys like Ray Comfort, it actually makes me believe even less, but you explain it very effectively and in a very meaningful way. I don't want to relish judgement, or fear it, but I want it to have some rational sense to my spirituality.
I see no contradiction between people not wanting to be judged, personally, and people taking perverse glee at watching others be judged. The term is "schadenfreude", and it is a staple of "reality TV".
This is also common among Christians, many of whom are quick to judge but even quicker to complain of being judged. Probably a universal human foible, but religion tends to amplify it, unfortunately, because people love to assume God is backing their judgments (despite Jesus' famous entreaty).
Hardly any of that happening in the Church, sunbeam. Almost all the abuse is pederasty involving post pubescent adolescent males (i.e., typical homosexual behavior). You really can't talk reality if you refuse to understand the statistics, which, BTW, indicate that children are far more likely to be abused by educators in the public school system (approximately 1 child out of ten compared to one child out of 100 in the Catholic Church). Why do you deny this documented fact?
@HammerofHeretics - there is a lot of little girls abused by priests - and this is pedophilia. Even if it was only one child abused by a catholic priest it is one too many.
Think if it was you being raped as a little kid by a priest you trusted, think of your own children if you have any.
@sunbeamcatcher actually, there aren't lots of little girls abused by priests. Over 80 percent of the victims were post pubescent boys. The other 20% were either adults, or pre-pubescent boys or girls. Further, abuse by priests is far less common than it is amongst other professions. Given the numbers, it's clear the primary problem in the Church has been one of homosexuality, not pedophilia. Last year only six credible new cases were reported in the entire country--clearly it's improving.
@HammerofHeretics I find it interesting that you ardently delineate between pedophilia and homosexuality. It's almost as if you are saying that the population of homosexuals is greater amongst Catholics than in the general population. Do you have statistics on that? In either case, the crime (as stated by US and state laws proposed by citizens), is rape or a derivative thereof.
@PrairiePie23 There have been several estimates made as to the percentage of priests with homosexual orientations and they all show that the percentage of homosexual priests is far higher than it is in the general population.
According to Amanda Ripley of Time Magazine, estimates range from 15% to 50%. 3
According to Bill Blakemore of ABC News, "...nobody knows what percentage of the American priesthood is gay; estimates range from less than 10% to more than 30%."
@PrairiePie23 Also, I think you're mischaracterizing the nature of the vast majority of abuse cases within the Church. Very few were actual rape; many were groping and inappropriate talk, and the vast majority of accusations only involved one victims. Shanley and Porter may have been the poster boys for sexual abuse in the Church, but they were far from representative of the bulk of the cases.
@HammerofHeretics - obviously the truth is not of interest to you. Pedophile Catholic clergy raping little girls and boys is OK according to you. I feel sorry for your poor kids. It is not their fault they have to have a blind parent.
@sunbeamcatcher obviously reading comprehension and understanding facts is not of interest to you. There were precisely SIX new credible cases of abuse in the US Catholic Church last year. That's less than the number of sex abuse cases in the public school in my tiny little Midwestern town. So be as ignorant and blind as you like to the facts, that's your choice. I prefer the real world to house of mirrors and I KNOW my kids are safer from abuse in the Catholic Church than at school..
@sunbeamcatcher buddy, the chances of my kids being raped by a Catholic priest are WAY WAY less than they are being raped by their bus driver or a public school teacher. And I have four children and none of them were ever put in a situation where abuse by a priest was even a possibility.
@HammerofHeretics buddy? is this your catholic patronizing compulsion?
Well, hello catholic pedophilia apologist.
Perhaps your children are not attractive enough and/or not vulnerable enough for the pedophile priest to target. Perhaps your desperate denial of the pedophilia in the catholic church would never allow you to admit such occurrence if it were to happen in your own family.
The church cares only about her image - the members are disposable as evidenced by her 2000 years history.
@sunbeamcatcher well, hello person who can't tell truth from fiction. And if you want to talk about denial, we need to address yours. There were six credible accusations of new abuse against priests this last year in the whole United States. Do you have any idea how many children were abused by public school teachers in NYC alone? Go google it and get back to me with your results.
I am no apologist for deviant, homosexual priests. They should be treated like any other criminal.
@HammerofHeretics - pedophilia among catholic clergy is what we are talking about - PEDOPHILIA - little children raped by catholic priests as in case of 200 deaf children raped by Father Lawrence Murphy - in Milwaukee. Have you heard of it yet?
@sunbeamcatcher HELLO! His victims were aged 15 to 22. That is HOMOSEXUALITY, not pedophilia. Pedophilia involves prepubescent children. Get your facts straight, for God's sakes.
@HammerofHeretics hello - victims were much younger than that (8, 10,12 and younger) - no 22 year old goes to grammar school - you are blind with denial, not to mention that a host of little girls were raped by priests as well, which you totally deny too.
@sunbeamcatcher sorry pal, but the reports said his victims were between 15 and 22 and exclusively male. It's called HOMOSEXUALITY. And 81 percent of all the abuse victims were male. Again, HOMOSEXUALITY. Hardly any little girls were abused, in fact, it appears that they were the least like of any subgroup to suffer abuse from priests. Why do you deny the obvious? The Church allowed homosexuals into the priesthood and they paid a terrible price for it, as did the Boy Scouts.
Fr. Barron, do you have a video that addresses the "social justice/Glenn Beck" flap that has been going around? On the one hand, Beck wants people to NOT go to social justice churches. On the other hand, Jim Wallis of Sojourners has responded to him by calling on people to proudly claim the title "Social Justice Christian."
Father I enjoy very much your vids. May God bless you on your Catholic Project and on all your endeavors. Much of what you talk about relates the the catechesis we give at our church. I was wondering have you ever come upon the NEOCATECHUMENAL WAY and the amazing evangelization that is going on?
Judgement is a good thing as long as it is compartmentalized down to a useful tool. The so-called judgement of god has way too large a scope to be anything other then oppressive.
Very interestng, Father. It's in a particularly interesting context for me as I was just reading one of the psalms about how the righteous do not fear the admonitions of their parents or of God, but instead heed them with humility. Thanks for give this talk :)
Of course we judge each other. We do it all the time. Its human nature. Its nothing from an invisible God.
You look at other people and you judge them.But here is the kicker. YOU do not want to be judged. You, the one standing there trying your best, will not take criticism unless its helping you.
There are so many things I disagree with in this video its amazing.
But I do agree on the suppression of feelings warps people into doing other things. Sex (pedophilia) is a big issue here.
@MrHeatwave10 (cont) People repress basic religious instinct due to 1) lack of understanding/proper teaching (Churches fault) and 2) a refusal to dig deeper into what they know to be right and opt for living a surface level existence of personal pleasure (individuals fault).
I can only assume you thought repressing was due to a lack of truth in the teachings of the Church. This is not the case.
@kalamain The money bit is what's laughable to me...I'll tell ya what, if somebody wants to make money and they turn to ministry to do that, they're either dishonest or delusional. Regardless, this has nothing to do with anything this video talks about. ...why I'm arguing this during the Triduum I don't know
@kalamain "Religion is playing a smaller and smaller role" in the world today??? Have you read anything outside of the New York Times? In 2008, 19,000,000 joined the Catholic church alone, that's 36 people every second. Catholicism is booming in Asia, Latin America, and especially in Africa. Polls consistently show that upwards of 98% of people, even in the West, believe in God. In Russia, the communist party is gone (thank God!) and the orthodox church is going strong.
You will notice that all of the places you have mentioned are 3rd world countries where religion keeps an iron fist and education is either very low or non-existant.
In places where education is available religion is on the back step. God has now started hiding in the gaps and is slowly being pushed out of society.
Of late the percentage of people 'coming out' and proclaiming their atheism is growing year on year.
BTW. I'm in the UK and so have never read the NYTimes.
Also. Taking the 2.5% of the world that is atheist. Well. There are serious issues with that aren't there?
For a start..."Which God? " You have more than enough to pass around.
What about those too afraid to admit their atheism? In the US you have REAL issues where atheists are scared to admit it.
Over here a 2004 poll described 39% of the population as being atheists. (note 6 on the wiki page about atheism for link) Thats more than 1 in 3 people!
@kalamain Do you consider the United States a "third world country?" The Catholic Church is growing steadily here. And Russia? You could say many things about it, but "third world" is not one of them. And keep in mind that, for nearly a century, a state-sponsored education system was in place there, which was officially and aggressively atheist. Further, objective polls give no indication whatsoever that atheism is gathering steam, just the contrary.
@wordonfirevideo AT times I wonder if the US is heading that way.
And the Catholic church may well be growing. But so is atheism. in the last 10 or so years the number of atheists has risen form around 4% to around 15% now.
And its all due to people being less afraid to speak out.
The religious majority held all the power because the church has always made power plays. It has a power base that votes on secular issues from a religious viewpoint. This is why its a white Christian nation.
@kalamain "In places where education is available religion is on the back step." This means 1) that people who believe in religion are uneducated and 2) the people who live in countries with limited resources that free willing accept teachings about religion are too stupid know any better. I agree places like the UK and the US have better resources and more people with degree's but people without those resources are still fully capable of deciding for themselves if what they hear is true or not.
@steveblaxton I find when debating atheists the basic argument comes back to something about lack of real education or ignorance on the part of religious believers. I find this extremely insulting, so please forgive me if I was overly abrasive to your remarks.
@kalamain do you know that all educated Catholics know a lot more about the origins of our festivals than you do. In the first place. We know that as a means of evangelization we would often take a pagan holiday season and Christianize it by overlaying Christian beliefs on pagan symbols. It was often a testimony to the cleverness of early Christians that they could take something like a pagan Triquetra and use it to explain the concept of the Trinity so it loses its pagan meaning.
@HammerofHeretics So....What you have just said is that you have morphed your religion to emulate and replace older established religions or local practices to fit your own end.
And you call these people 'clever'?
This is why religion needs to be stopped.
No more from me. I think we are all far too set in our ways to change. Which is a shame.
@kalamain if that's what you got out of my post you didn't understand a word I wrote. What I said was the early evangelists worked with what pagans were already familiar with and used those things to help them understand the mysteries of Christianity. The Christian understanding replaced the pagan meaning of the symbol, it didn't "emulate" it. And if that's too much for you to understand, that is a shame.
@sunbeamcatcher there is no penchant among Catholic priests for pedophilia, Most of the abuse within the Church was homosexual in nature, not pedophilia. And even if you look at all the accusations of the abuse put together the total percentage of priests involved in this abuse is far under 5%, which is far less than the percentage of sex abusers that public school teachers. Perhaps you can you explain to me why teachers are so likely to abuse kids and no one seems to care?
@kalamain "Or do they have your God watching out for them?"
I believe the Pope said that offending Clerics should be handed over to secular authorities. In the Bible (especially OT) being judged and convicted was a chance to repent from sins. So, it is possible that being handed over to the authorities and "God watching over them" are one in the same.
Also, the media (ie. New York Times) would portray the issue as more widespread then it really is. "If it bleeds, it leads."
@sulkow82 It was the then Cardinal Ratzinger (I may have misspelled that, sorry) that was behind the many instances of moving known pedophiles around so as to not to have them caught. In the popular press here in the UK there has been a fair anount of coverage on the facts. These can be found with a quick look on google I'll bet.
And somewhere around the 10 thousand mark of reported cases is not something to be concerned about? overstated or not.
@kalamain Friend, that's just not true. Ratzinger is one of the good guys. If you're really interested in solving this problem--and not just in embarrassing the Catholic Church--you are really going after the wrong person. No one has done more to address this issue than Joseph Ratzinger. Look very carefully at the documents in question and you'll see that he was not "covering up" anything.
@wordonfirevideo If he is the good guy then why has he not put forward all the information he has on hand about all the issues that have been in the news?
Why has he not handed himself up for concealing all those many cases he knew of when he was in a position to do so?
If absolutely nothing else he is guilty of aiding and abeting known pedophiles.
He was in a position to have done so much yet did nothing. Now he is the pope and has papal infallability....Tell him to come forward!
@kalamain First and foremost, as Fr. Barron so ably explained, Pope Benedict never "covered up" anything. In fact, he did his best to make sure these offenders could not re-offend. Something, BTW, that is easier said than done even when an offender is sent to prison for their crimes because contrary to what you may believe, most, even if they are convicted, don't spend much time in jail. You keep acting like Pope has universal legal jurisdiction, but he doesn't.
@kalamain not caught, accused. The prevalence of public school teachers who abuse is way higher, as are the raw numbers of children abused by public school teachers. And public schools are guilty of the same hushing up of abuse that occurred in the Church in the past with the difference being there is no real improvement being seen in abuse in the public schools as there is in the Catholic Church.
@HammerofHeretics I'd like to see some objective data. What do you mean by abuse, specifically? How were the incidents determined? (i.e., were they reported or witnessed etc...). Which public schools and in what countries? The US public school system is quite different than others but the Catholic church is supposed to be universal.
@sunbeamcatcher Well, I doubt that you're really curious, but if you are, you should know that the number of priest child abusers is below the national average. A child is far more likely to be abused by a parent, a relative, a coach, or a teacher. In fact, between 1990 and 2000, 300,000 children were abused in the public school system in the United States. Speaking of a "penchant" of priests for child molestation is simply slanderous.
The problem with the Catholic sex abuse scandal is the institutional cover-up. It seems that people at very high levels have had a tendency to put preservation of their own power and the reputation of the Church ahead of the needs and well-being of their parishioners. There is no way to justify this from any moral or ethical perspective. I doubt that all those involved will actually be held accountable for past cover-ups, but hopefully it won't happen so much going forward.
@wordonfirevideo To be fair, it must be recognized that given what appears to be a pattern of protection, cover-up and failure to acknowledge, let alone report abuse cases, statistics on sexual abuse within the church may be more difficult to accurately determine than within society at large. Hesitancy to report due to fear and embarrassment is problematic society wide, but when you have the added factor of institutionalized cover-up, it makes statements like yours difficult to verify, at best.
@pisumalu I presume you're joking. There is no institution on earth that has more thoroughly and honestly investigated itself on this point than the Catholic Church. We have just barely scraped the surface of this issue in other societal setings, especially in the public schools. God knows that the Church had to be dragged kicking and screaming into this stance, but we are far ahead of any other organization or institution.
@wordonfirevideo Not joking,. Patrick Wall is one of the few to come forward and detail the lengths to which the Church goes to protect itself at the expense of victims. After working as a fixer in the church, dealing with the aftermath of sexual abusive priests in parishes and schools, Wall left the priesthood, finding that the only way that abuse survivors would get the help and healing they needed was outside of the church hierarchy. His accounts are painfully enlightening.
@wordonfirevideo No institution on earth? Have you measured them all directly or is this a comment based on faith? Your defense of the church is analogous to a rapist defending him or her self by saying they were sorrier than all the other rapists. It serves merely to shift the spotlight. It does not retract or obscure the crime and bad behavior that followed/follows.
@pisumalu - That is an valid point. With this kind of abuse, it is impossible to get a full accounting, because victims are reluctant to come forward. Of course, that would apply to the baseline data as well.
Father, I know this issue puts you in a tough spot (because of your commitments), and it is wrong to bash the Church unfairly, but I don't see the basis for your claims about it being "far ahead". How could you measure that, objectively?
@jontv Take a look at the John Jay report on sexual abuse within the Catholic Church, a report that was funded and sponsored by the church--and then show me any group or institution that has done anything even comparable. Look at the myriad guidelines in place in the church and the gamut of controls that anyone associated with the church has to accept. And show me any other institution that has anything even comparable.
@wordonfirevideo Reports, guidelines and controls, only after extensive litigation, does not a caring institution make. Kind of like Exxon's environmental reports, guidelines and controls following the Valdez spill. That's not to say it is necessarily insincere, but it certainly begs the question. I'm also curious as to whether victims are comforted to know that the abuse they suffered at the hands of their spiritual leaders may, perhaps, happen more frequently in other societal institutions.
@wordonfirevideo I'm sorry, but let's look at what we're talking about, how the victims of that abuse have been treated, and then look honestly at the issue of fairness.
@wordonfirevideo - Not to belabor the point, but you seem to be arguing that the Church has the world's best safeguards against abuse, and yet about the same amount of abuse as the general population. If you're right, shouldn't the Church have much less?
Honestly, I don't want to bash The Church or take on a research project. I hope you're right that the Church is (belatedly) trying to get ahead of this problem. But I am always skeptical in the presence of sweeping claims and low objectivity.
@jontv In the last year, there were precisely six reported cases of sexual abuse by clergy in the American church. That's in a church of 65,000,000 Catholics and over 50,000 priests. I would say the safeguards are working. Now mind you, none of this is to gainsay that for far too long the church was lax in this regard, but I think it's hard to fault us today.
There have been pedophiles & other kinds of sexual deviants in ALL places of society. Especially ones dealing with children(something that is among the responsibilities of priests), as these kinds of people like go where they can gain access to their victims.
In all likelihood, those people chose to become priests primarily to get to children.
@splashenful "in all likelihood, those people chose to become priests primarily to get to the children." First off you have no idea what you have to do to become a priest and second off, there is no evidence to your claim. I agree with your first statement about all places of society but to go so far as to extract a fallacy such as what you claim shows your ignorance and biasness.
@steveblaxton I disagree. People without resources are not capable of deciding what is true. For instance, if you did not know the meteorological explanation of thunder and someone told you it was Zeus and showed you a 3000 page book elaborating, why wouldn't you believe it? An additional resource, an education in meteorology, can change everything about what you perceive as true.
@kalamain "White Christian nation, eh?" Have you checked out the numbers of Hispanics, Philipinos, and Vietnamese in the US Catholic Church? Conservative estimates are that by 2050, the US church will be majority Hispanic. But then again, I'm sure you consider those poor souls just a little on the dim side.
@wordonfirevideo "Have you checked out the numbers of Hispanics, Philipinos, and Vietnamese in the US Catholic Church?" What does that have to do with it being a white Christian nation?
Are you leading that the catholic church (A sub-sect of Christianity I might add) defines the US?
And if the majority of the US church is hispanic by 2050. Why would that be?
Could it be that by then the education system would have finally been brought up to scratch and people would have left?
@wordonfirevideo a further note: isn't it true that most of the great universities of the world were founded by religious bodies? Consider for example Georgetown University - it's a Jesuit school. I wouldn't exactly put Georgetown on the level of a small 2 year community college, right? lol
@kalamain you typify atheistic arrogance. Atheism requires no special intelligence nor education. In fact, anyone who is truly educated knows that many of the greatest minds throughout history have been Christians, and that holds for all fields of study, including science. Religion, when properly understood, does not impede intellect, it directs it and encourages toward moral and ethical paths.
Most of the greatest minds throughout history have lived in times where advertising that you were NOT religious meant that you would be, at best, shunned and at worst put to death for heresy.
And as to morals...Sorry, no...The Christian church is far from a font of morality.
It silences those that argue against the churches dogma and puts forward outright lies in its own favour (condoms and AIDS anyone?)
@kalamain furthermore, it is organizations like Planned Parenthood that puts out lies about AIDS and condoms. The Church has no need to lie about these things. Their only interest in the discussion is to assure that people understand the true nature of sexuality as God intended it. Planned Parenthood, on the other hand, makes money promoting sexual promiscuity, and I note, have probably done more to increase the spread of AIDS and encourage unplanned pregnancies than any organization on earth
What lies about condoms? They stop the transfer of bodily fluids which is how AIDS is transmitted!
And if he exists your God created homosexuality...He must have done or there would be no gay humans OR animals that show homosexual behaviour!
When a human goes through puberty they experience extreme needs to procreate. We are not animals that would mate for life. This is a tendancy that we have chosen. Apes tend to have groups of females to one male.
I am a Filipino and a Roman Catholic. Yes we are a third world country but I take offense to your assertion that religion keeps an iron fist in our nation. If you care to check, we value our faith but our church leaders don't rule as with an iron hand. And we may have few resources when it comes to educational system bu it doesn't mean our brains has less mass than a British or American brain. It just goes to show your ignorance and racism.
@JAYJAS0311 I was shopping for Christmas presents in Makati City. The carols blared and people were giggling through the corridors when all of the sudden, the music stopped, everyone stood where they were, bowed their heads and joined in afternoon prayer. Except me.
No one said you were stupid or incapable JAYJAS.
On the hill above Tagatay stands a radio tower which was meant to be the Pope's residence; built by the government. I passed the children fishing through dumps to go see it.
@kalamain "Religion is playing a smaller and smaller role" in the world today??? Have you read anything outside of the New York Times? In 2008, 19,000,000 joined the Catholic church alone, that's 36 people every second. Catholicism is booming in Asia, Latin America, and especially in Africa. Polls consistently show that upwards of 98% of people, even in the West, believe in God. In Russia, the communist party is gone (thank God!) and the orthodox church is going strong.
@MrHeatweave10 In the rules discernment of spirits in his spiritual exercises, St. Ignatius of Loyola says of those who are young in faith God uses their own reason/intellect to understand what's right and wrong, this comes in the form of guilt. He describes it as the "sting" of conscience. Unfortunately for many, they are never able see the truth behind the guilt and fall away (or repress) because it's too difficult to bare a seemingly arbitrary guilt imposed by a disconnected religion (cont.)
@MrHeatwave10 It should matter if what he says is true. What if God raises up a friend to judge you to help you. This answer is very stupid because God appoint's judges.
Isn't this video based only and solitarily on the presumption that the Bible is true?
maginatorgia 3 weeks ago
@maginatorgia Yes. This one is for believers. I've got lots of other videos for those who are not starting from the standpoint of faith.
wordonfirevideo 3 weeks ago
@wordonfirevideo
Again I ask the same very simple straight forward question. Please PROVE how beliefs are "known" to be "true"? When this is accomplished, then you can convert billions. Just give some religious Proof?
maginatorgia 2 weeks ago
@maginatorgia Well, begin with the argument from contingency for God's existence. It definitively shows that God exists. Then we can take it from there.
wordonfirevideo 2 weeks ago
@wordonfirevideo argument from contingency <<
There is NO arguement or contingency . You boast that God exists! Now prove it?
maginatorgia 2 weeks ago
@maginatorgia I've laid it out over and over again on these forums. Take a look at Robert Spitzer's version. You'll see that it very elegantly proves God's existence.
wordonfirevideo 2 weeks ago
@wordonfirevideo Robert Spitzer's ? <<
Robert Spitzer's ? This is your "chosen" forum. You need to stand up for your your claims & prove them yourself. So far you give references & no self proof of God's existence. Yet you outrageously claim also that you "laid it all out". Pretty presumptuous of you! All your presumptions & conjectures are passing the burden of proof on someone or someplace else, is only going to make you lose believers. Now give your proof already, please?
maginatorgia 1 week ago
@maginatorgia
Are you asking him to prove that God exists in a 500 character comment on YouTube?
Humanity has been trying to answer the question you're asking since the beginning of history! There is no one piece of proof that will quell all doubts about it.
You must realize that the question you're asking is incredibly complex. If you don't treat it that way, you will never get a proper answer.
animatedpaintbrush 1 day ago
I like a priest who is not afraid to answer questions and doesn't block people when he is caught and feels hurt to his sensitivity. I like this. Are you one of them?
maginatorgia 3 weeks ago
@maginatorgia Well, I've engaged thousands of people on these forums and have answered in excess of ten thousand questions. On very rare occasions, I will block someone who has become obscene or who, in my judgment, is no longer contributing constructively to the conversation.
wordonfirevideo 3 weeks ago
@wordonfirevideo I will block very rare occasions <<
No one criticizes religion when they only request PROOF! No one is an "enemy" of the faith when they only request PROOF! There is no PROOF that "defends" the faith! There is only convoluted conjectures of stories and speeches, without PROOF. Please PROVE that beliefs are "known" to be "true"? When this is accomplished then you'll convert billions. Just give us some religious Proof?
maginatorgia 3 weeks ago
holy
maginatorgia 3 weeks ago
Okay Mr Barron - just answer this one question: how many people, including women and children, were killed by the Catholic Church during the "crusades" and the "inquisition"?
I reject anything that a religion - with a history of violence and whose hands is overflowing with blood of innocents - can say or claim.
godigutierrez 1 month ago
@godigutierrez A quick answer: far, far fewer than is claimed by secularist and anti-Catholic historians. Take a look at Rodney Stark's "The Triumph of Christianity" for the details. Also, far, far, far fewer than have been killed by secularist and materialist ideologies. Consult the history of the twentieth century for details. And friend, finally, you've got to be muc more careful with your language. Bad Catholics have done a lot of bad things--not necessarily "the Church."
wordonfirevideo 1 month ago
@wordonfirevideo Okay, Mr. "Someone who cannot even use his real name here" - tell me how many less people did the Catholic Church murdered during the "crusades" and the "Inquisition"? !0 million? 9 million? 8 million? 7 million? 6 million? 5 million? 4 million? 3 million?
I reject anything that a hypocritical religion - who burned alive a young girl after being declared a witch by the church's inquisition, only to later proclaim her a saint of their own - can say or claim.
godigutierrez 1 month ago
@godigutierrez I'll be happy to engage you, once you're over your little tantrum.
wordonfirevideo 1 month ago
@wordonfirevideo Okay, so just tell me if you can't answer a simple question: How much far, far, far fewer?
godigutierrez 1 month ago
@godigutierrez overflowing with blood of innocents <<
Islam
maginatorgia 3 weeks ago
I love Judge Judy ^__^
AaronH9111 1 month ago
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AaronH9111 1 month ago
We are called to Judge an act (not a person) if and only if, we are saintly. God also warns us, Judge not lest ye be judged.
Let’s put it this way – if you are without sin jeseus says go for it and judge, but only someone’s actions, not them! Also realise that in doing it, you are accepting that they will judge you harshly and so will God.
So, if you are right with god and without sin, judge sparingly, and with an eye through the New Testament only!!!
Infiltratr 2 months ago
The only disagreement I may have is the use of the term "self esteem" when the proper term is ego gratification. The two are actually polar opposites. True self esteem involves accepting oneself as they truly are, warts and all. Ego is to have an inflated view of one's own importance. Someone with a huge ego is someone who really doesn't accept themselves as they truly are. It actually can be a sign of self loathing. This culture confuses the two in many cases, but not all.
Slovakson1 2 months ago
Father Barron, my kudos and appreciation for clarifying the difference between judging, and being judgemental. Keeping mum about someone else's trivial or properly subjective issues (bad taste, for example) may be fine, but my understanding is that salvation requires an acknowledgement on our part of our sinful nature. We can't be forgiven if we can't confess. Think of mealy mouthed "Sorry if you were offended" non-apologies. That's why Pride is the deadliest sin of all, n'est ce pas?
bennettmarshall 4 months ago
There is also a sinister aspect to these shows, which mimic the methods used in Neuro-Linguistic Programming seminars, which try to increase tension & generate uncertainty in participants, who are picked on, shouted at, & humiliated by the trainers in front of everyone, just like in these shows! Vicious language is used ON PURPOSE to make participants feel uncomfortable, and the end result is to induce an "Alpha State of Suggestibility" in the subjects...a sinister kind of hypnotic mind-control.
TibbieT 4 months ago
Father Barron, thank you so much for what you do.
yankeesuperstar 7 months ago 5
Continuing...
So, they came up with the concept of the final justice, the ultimate justice, or the ultimate application of justice -- "Judgement Day"! Where, on the "end of days", all sinners who will eventually go to eternal hell will be on god's left, and those on the right will go to heaven. This culture is so obsessed with vengeance and revenge - so much so, that they would not only pursue perpetrators to the ends of the earth, but also to the ends of life, and even the afterlife!
godigutierrez 8 months ago
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godigutierrez 8 months ago
Believers of Abrahamic religions are so concerned with justice and its application -- they are so obsessed with it - they even invented a god that is ALL-JUST. Why? If not to punish -- and get their vengeance in the afterlife -- people that have done them or other people harm. If they are not able to have their revenge in this life, with a god that is all-just, they are assured that those people will get what they deserved in the afterlife.
Of course, they want to call this "justice".
godigutierrez 8 months ago
@godigutierrez Come on, friend, that's entirely too cynical. Tell a slave or an Auschwitz victim that it's entirely a matter of indifference that there is an unconditioned source of justice.
wordonfirevideo 8 months ago
@wordonfirevideo - It is not a matter of indifference. What I am saying is that this culture is so obsessed with "justice" and people are using it to justify their violence. In short, people would rather just ignore the principle of solidarity, that says, "Treat others as you want them to treat you" and just go with the principle of this so-called "justice" -- which is really masked revenge -- that says, "Treat others as they deserved to be treated".
godigutierrez 8 months ago
@godigutierrez Well, okay. I agree that there are people who misuse or misappropriate the idea of the divine justice. But don't blame the "Abrahamic religions" for teaching that justice!!
wordonfirevideo 8 months ago 4
@godigutierrez It's interesting that you point out this justice-obsession as a fault. You do a great paraphrase of Nietzsche's dialectic of master morality and slave morality. Master morality religions are great for being non-judgemental because they are simply trying to maintain an oppressive social order. There is nothing to blame: the top people are on top and the bottom are on the bottom. But in a slave morality religion, there is plenty of blame because it is trying to highlight oppression.
CoryTheRaven 1 month ago
@godigutierrez just doesn't get it.
markdobs 1 month ago
But there are also epistemological jugdements, like those whom affirm existence or non-existence of something.
metal87power 8 months ago
Simon Cowell does not tell the truth in charity though. It is done maliciously and for the purposes of a "good show".
bayreuth79 9 months ago
About Christina Aguilera's song "Beautiful," I've always thought that the "judges" in that song were school bullies, etc.
Kids CAN be very cruel to one another.
splashenful 1 year ago
Thing is, this man knows Philosophy a bit better than the Oxonian.
darkgrb 1 year ago
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darkgrb 1 year ago
this man needs to debate richard dawkins or christopher hitchens. he is obviously the most articulate and intelligent catholic alive, so let him test his faith against a legitimate, equally intelligent athiest. Dawkins will systematically breakdown even his most articulate arguments in favor of god and show him, along with all the catholics who witness it, what it true. that believing in god is simply irrational and a fucking waste of time.
cphines1 1 year ago
Father, please upload this video again. It stops at 3:59. I am so glad to find a very intellectual yet understandable presentation of the Faith. Thank you.
TheDaX12 1 year ago
Here's my problem with the "authentic judgement" of the Catholic Church: it condemns me for not having the same viewpoint, which is bordering on despotic. As a nonbeliever, the Church condemns me to Hell, even though I have made my best efforts to try to believe, and I'm doubly condemned because I used to be Catholic and now don't find solace in it. Living an honest and moral life seems genuine to me, but God will condemn my to Hell for my doubt according to Church dogma as I understand it.
misterzonker2584 1 year ago
@misterzonker2584 Hello stranger. Extra ecclesia nulla salus as I know it does not mean that you are doomed to hell, but that if indeed you do reach heaven, it is because of the graces that flow from the Church.
I've been through my own struggles, but one very short paragraph that can help you (as it reinforced my faith) is the Wikipedia article here: /wiki/Miracles#Catholic_Church
Catholic miracles are scientifically valid! That's pretty cool.Thers Saints, Eucharistic and apparition miracles.
TheHardout2005 1 year ago
@misterzonker2584 I use to be where you were. As you said you did your best efforts to try and believe. Try doing just a bit more research into the whole damnation thing. I would recommend looking at Fr. Barron's comments on Hell and specifically Mathew 25, the Judgment of nations.
Derrickoify 10 months ago
@Derrickoify Matthew 25 is exactly where my problem lies. How is it just to condemn someone to "eternal punishment," whatever that is, for an offense committed during a finite period of time? Even the worst crime doesn't justify endless torment, whether it be physical, separation from the being who created you, whatever. Adding to that is that non-belief in something is an offense? What's so bad about being a doubting Thomas when God created those conditions for doubt in the first place?
misterzonker2584 10 months ago
@Derrickoify It's not like I got to see Jesus's miracles, unlike the witnesses of the Bible (who then don't really need faith to believe in what they clearly saw with their own eyes, do they?). How is it responsible of God to get his people to rely on a contradictory book in place of actually communing with him through non-disputable means? And by that I mean create a way to verify that he actually exists and not need "faith" for what is literally the most important decision you can make!
misterzonker2584 10 months ago
@misterzonker2584 First off the bible has no contradictions as long as you take the context in which it was written, just like every thing else we read. The last question you will have to look for yourself. The Truth is important for everyone to know, I'm not specifically saying to go Catholic or go home, but the understanding that Truth is out there in the first place. Arguments over which Truth, does not mean there is no Truth. Science doesn't replace religion as it is a different paradigm.
Derrickoify 10 months ago
@Derrickoify The Bible is contradictory, but never mind that. Your comments on Truth still don't address what I was saying about the moral unacceptibility of eternal punishment. I can accept the idea of divine justice, should that entail a notion of Hell, but I can't accept that people will suffer endlessly there. Also problematic is the notion that you must believe the right things to get to heaven, as opposed to good works. Sola scriptura or faith and good works, the problem still remains.
misterzonker2584 10 months ago
@misterzonker2584 the ultimate decision is not based solely on the Church but by what God decides. Whether you can make a choice after you die is unknown. There are plenty of scenarios where things end up with people who are not of the Church to go to Heaven.
Derrickoify 10 months ago
the bible is not contradictory as long as you take the context with it, just like everything else we read.
Derrickoify 10 months ago
@Derrickoify That's a side issue, again not addressing the real moral problem I believe the New Testament presents. Clearly you don't see it that way, but for some reason you keep coming back to inerrancy. That's not what I'm getting at. How so many Christians have no issues with the idea of eternal punishment (and I know because I've brought it up to several of them, and they didn't bat an eye, thinking somehow that it is justifiable for a simple lack of faith) is astounding to me.
misterzonker2584 10 months ago
@misterzonker2584 what it comes down to is the person who goes to hell is the person who chooses not to love God,at the final judgment. Whenever that may be. It is not God condemning you, it is you choosing not to be with him. You have to have Hell, purgatory and Heaven for the three options given off by Free will. Hell= No love, Purgatory=Love with pain, and Heaven=Love with no pain. I have a problem with my fellow man going to Hell ,I do but it is not my choice to do his love.
Derrickoify 10 months ago
@Derrickoify Did you really just say the bible has NO contradictions?! Wow you must be deluded....How do you know that the bible is the "Truth" and how do you know it was inspired by God?
goldenram27 10 months ago
@goldenram27 there are no contradictions as long as you take the context of what is being said, just like everything else we read.
Derrickoify 10 months ago
@Derrickoify Wow, acutally there are many contradictions regarding Jesus' birth, life and resurrection to name a few. But since you claim its accurate, I guess the Biblical accounts of God performing, sanctioning or encouraging murder, rape, genocide and human sacrifice are true and reflect God's moral character?
goldenram27 10 months ago
This video is so nice! I just love it!
FalcaoWesley 1 year ago
I don't know if I'd put Simon Cowell in the same category as Judge Judy.
irvingklaw57 1 year ago
@irvingklaw57 I'm not so sure I am comfortable with the idea that Judge Judy and Simon Cowell be regarded as "minor icons" of God.... scary
peipappy1 1 year ago
This video is incredible to me. Judgement is an aspect of my faith that I struggle with, and when I listen to arguments about judgement by guys like Ray Comfort, it actually makes me believe even less, but you explain it very effectively and in a very meaningful way. I don't want to relish judgement, or fear it, but I want it to have some rational sense to my spirituality.
MKTF 1 year ago 10
Wonderful and insightful.
quangjd 1 year ago
I see no contradiction between people not wanting to be judged, personally, and people taking perverse glee at watching others be judged. The term is "schadenfreude", and it is a staple of "reality TV".
This is also common among Christians, many of whom are quick to judge but even quicker to complain of being judged. Probably a universal human foible, but religion tends to amplify it, unfortunately, because people love to assume God is backing their judgments (despite Jesus' famous entreaty).
jontv 1 year ago 2
Hardly any of that happening in the Church, sunbeam. Almost all the abuse is pederasty involving post pubescent adolescent males (i.e., typical homosexual behavior). You really can't talk reality if you refuse to understand the statistics, which, BTW, indicate that children are far more likely to be abused by educators in the public school system (approximately 1 child out of ten compared to one child out of 100 in the Catholic Church). Why do you deny this documented fact?
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics - there is a lot of little girls abused by priests - and this is pedophilia. Even if it was only one child abused by a catholic priest it is one too many.
Think if it was you being raped as a little kid by a priest you trusted, think of your own children if you have any.
sunbeamcatcher 1 year ago
@sunbeamcatcher actually, there aren't lots of little girls abused by priests. Over 80 percent of the victims were post pubescent boys. The other 20% were either adults, or pre-pubescent boys or girls. Further, abuse by priests is far less common than it is amongst other professions. Given the numbers, it's clear the primary problem in the Church has been one of homosexuality, not pedophilia. Last year only six credible new cases were reported in the entire country--clearly it's improving.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics I find it interesting that you ardently delineate between pedophilia and homosexuality. It's almost as if you are saying that the population of homosexuals is greater amongst Catholics than in the general population. Do you have statistics on that? In either case, the crime (as stated by US and state laws proposed by citizens), is rape or a derivative thereof.
PrairiePie23 1 year ago
@PrairiePie23 There have been several estimates made as to the percentage of priests with homosexual orientations and they all show that the percentage of homosexual priests is far higher than it is in the general population.
According to Amanda Ripley of Time Magazine, estimates range from 15% to 50%. 3
According to Bill Blakemore of ABC News, "...nobody knows what percentage of the American priesthood is gay; estimates range from less than 10% to more than 30%."
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@PrairiePie23 Also, I think you're mischaracterizing the nature of the vast majority of abuse cases within the Church. Very few were actual rape; many were groping and inappropriate talk, and the vast majority of accusations only involved one victims. Shanley and Porter may have been the poster boys for sexual abuse in the Church, but they were far from representative of the bulk of the cases.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics - obviously the truth is not of interest to you. Pedophile Catholic clergy raping little girls and boys is OK according to you. I feel sorry for your poor kids. It is not their fault they have to have a blind parent.
sunbeamcatcher 1 year ago
@sunbeamcatcher obviously reading comprehension and understanding facts is not of interest to you. There were precisely SIX new credible cases of abuse in the US Catholic Church last year. That's less than the number of sex abuse cases in the public school in my tiny little Midwestern town. So be as ignorant and blind as you like to the facts, that's your choice. I prefer the real world to house of mirrors and I KNOW my kids are safer from abuse in the Catholic Church than at school..
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@sunbeamcatcher buddy, the chances of my kids being raped by a Catholic priest are WAY WAY less than they are being raped by their bus driver or a public school teacher. And I have four children and none of them were ever put in a situation where abuse by a priest was even a possibility.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics buddy? is this your catholic patronizing compulsion?
Well, hello catholic pedophilia apologist.
Perhaps your children are not attractive enough and/or not vulnerable enough for the pedophile priest to target. Perhaps your desperate denial of the pedophilia in the catholic church would never allow you to admit such occurrence if it were to happen in your own family.
The church cares only about her image - the members are disposable as evidenced by her 2000 years history.
sunbeamcatcher 1 year ago
@sunbeamcatcher well, hello person who can't tell truth from fiction. And if you want to talk about denial, we need to address yours. There were six credible accusations of new abuse against priests this last year in the whole United States. Do you have any idea how many children were abused by public school teachers in NYC alone? Go google it and get back to me with your results.
I am no apologist for deviant, homosexual priests. They should be treated like any other criminal.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics - pedophilia among catholic clergy is what we are talking about - PEDOPHILIA - little children raped by catholic priests as in case of 200 deaf children raped by Father Lawrence Murphy - in Milwaukee. Have you heard of it yet?
It is about PEDOPHILIA.
sunbeamcatcher 1 year ago
@sunbeamcatcher HELLO! His victims were aged 15 to 22. That is HOMOSEXUALITY, not pedophilia. Pedophilia involves prepubescent children. Get your facts straight, for God's sakes.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics hello - victims were much younger than that (8, 10,12 and younger) - no 22 year old goes to grammar school - you are blind with denial, not to mention that a host of little girls were raped by priests as well, which you totally deny too.
Are you sure your name is not Bill Donohue?
sunbeamcatcher 1 year ago
@sunbeamcatcher sorry pal, but the reports said his victims were between 15 and 22 and exclusively male. It's called HOMOSEXUALITY. And 81 percent of all the abuse victims were male. Again, HOMOSEXUALITY. Hardly any little girls were abused, in fact, it appears that they were the least like of any subgroup to suffer abuse from priests. Why do you deny the obvious? The Church allowed homosexuals into the priesthood and they paid a terrible price for it, as did the Boy Scouts.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
What a great line: "Simon Cowell and Judge Judy can tell us a lot about God."
bangertm 1 year ago
Fr. Barron, do you have a video that addresses the "social justice/Glenn Beck" flap that has been going around? On the one hand, Beck wants people to NOT go to social justice churches. On the other hand, Jim Wallis of Sojourners has responded to him by calling on people to proudly claim the title "Social Justice Christian."
sterlingrose33 1 year ago
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242am 1 year ago
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242am 1 year ago
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242am 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Father I enjoy very much your vids. May God bless you on your Catholic Project and on all your endeavors. Much of what you talk about relates the the catechesis we give at our church. I was wondering have you ever come upon the NEOCATECHUMENAL WAY and the amazing evangelization that is going on?
242am 1 year ago
Here we see an excellent example of paying attention to pop-"culture" for the purpose of seeing to its roots. Great stuff from Fr. Barron.
Jitpring 1 year ago
Judgement is a good thing as long as it is compartmentalized down to a useful tool. The so-called judgement of god has way too large a scope to be anything other then oppressive.
jasonhenle 1 year ago
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firefly467 1 year ago
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firefly467 1 year ago
Very interestng, Father. It's in a particularly interesting context for me as I was just reading one of the psalms about how the righteous do not fear the admonitions of their parents or of God, but instead heed them with humility. Thanks for give this talk :)
firefly467 1 year ago
You forgot "Dance Fever."
ElvisRockatansky 1 year ago
Of course we judge each other. We do it all the time. Its human nature. Its nothing from an invisible God.
You look at other people and you judge them.But here is the kicker. YOU do not want to be judged. You, the one standing there trying your best, will not take criticism unless its helping you.
There are so many things I disagree with in this video its amazing.
But I do agree on the suppression of feelings warps people into doing other things. Sex (pedophilia) is a big issue here.
kalamain 1 year ago
Simon Cowell and Judge Judy as "minor icons." I love it. If it weren't true, it would be heretical! :)
munari1976 1 year ago
@MrHeatwave10 (cont) People repress basic religious instinct due to 1) lack of understanding/proper teaching (Churches fault) and 2) a refusal to dig deeper into what they know to be right and opt for living a surface level existence of personal pleasure (individuals fault).
I can only assume you thought repressing was due to a lack of truth in the teachings of the Church. This is not the case.
steveblaxton 1 year ago
@steveblaxton
Erm. Not everyone follows religion and once your eyes have been 'opened' (you can laugh if you like B-) you will see what we mean.
Through out history religion is playing a smaller and smaller role.
It used to be that the Gods walked the earth.
Then they lived in the sky.
Now they live in the phantom zone.
One day I hope we take that last step and put the God idea to bed for good.
We don't need God. But the church sure needs your money.
kalamain 1 year ago
@kalamain The money bit is what's laughable to me...I'll tell ya what, if somebody wants to make money and they turn to ministry to do that, they're either dishonest or delusional. Regardless, this has nothing to do with anything this video talks about. ...why I'm arguing this during the Triduum I don't know
steveblaxton 1 year ago
@kalamain "Religion is playing a smaller and smaller role" in the world today??? Have you read anything outside of the New York Times? In 2008, 19,000,000 joined the Catholic church alone, that's 36 people every second. Catholicism is booming in Asia, Latin America, and especially in Africa. Polls consistently show that upwards of 98% of people, even in the West, believe in God. In Russia, the communist party is gone (thank God!) and the orthodox church is going strong.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo
You will notice that all of the places you have mentioned are 3rd world countries where religion keeps an iron fist and education is either very low or non-existant.
In places where education is available religion is on the back step. God has now started hiding in the gaps and is slowly being pushed out of society.
Of late the percentage of people 'coming out' and proclaiming their atheism is growing year on year.
BTW. I'm in the UK and so have never read the NYTimes.
kalamain 1 year ago
@kalamain
Also. Taking the 2.5% of the world that is atheist. Well. There are serious issues with that aren't there?
For a start..."Which God? " You have more than enough to pass around.
What about those too afraid to admit their atheism? In the US you have REAL issues where atheists are scared to admit it.
Over here a 2004 poll described 39% of the population as being atheists. (note 6 on the wiki page about atheism for link) Thats more than 1 in 3 people!
The number is higher in kids.
kalamain 1 year ago
@kalamain Do you consider the United States a "third world country?" The Catholic Church is growing steadily here. And Russia? You could say many things about it, but "third world" is not one of them. And keep in mind that, for nearly a century, a state-sponsored education system was in place there, which was officially and aggressively atheist. Further, objective polls give no indication whatsoever that atheism is gathering steam, just the contrary.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo AT times I wonder if the US is heading that way.
And the Catholic church may well be growing. But so is atheism. in the last 10 or so years the number of atheists has risen form around 4% to around 15% now.
And its all due to people being less afraid to speak out.
The religious majority held all the power because the church has always made power plays. It has a power base that votes on secular issues from a religious viewpoint. This is why its a white Christian nation.
kalamain 1 year ago 2
@kalamain The mockery you show of third world people's intelligence as well as all those you disagree with is terrible.
steveblaxton 1 year ago
@steveblaxton Who mocked the third world populace's intelligence?
Stop putting words in my mouth. I was talking about the education standards. This is not as good as in the UK and most of the western world.
Tell me I'm wrong.I dare you.
kalamain 1 year ago
@kalamain "In places where education is available religion is on the back step." This means 1) that people who believe in religion are uneducated and 2) the people who live in countries with limited resources that free willing accept teachings about religion are too stupid know any better. I agree places like the UK and the US have better resources and more people with degree's but people without those resources are still fully capable of deciding for themselves if what they hear is true or not.
steveblaxton 1 year ago
@steveblaxton I find when debating atheists the basic argument comes back to something about lack of real education or ignorance on the part of religious believers. I find this extremely insulting, so please forgive me if I was overly abrasive to your remarks.
steveblaxton 1 year ago
@steveblaxton No. I will not forgive you. There is nothing to forgive.
And it is ALL about education.
Do you know where most of the christian festivals came from? Including the one you just celebrated?
Did you have a Christmas tree up on the solstace last year?
Have you READ the bible?
Its all about education and the fact that you obviously have had important parts missing.
And we are not debating...We are arguing. This is a difference.
kalamain 1 year ago
@kalamain do you know that all educated Catholics know a lot more about the origins of our festivals than you do. In the first place. We know that as a means of evangelization we would often take a pagan holiday season and Christianize it by overlaying Christian beliefs on pagan symbols. It was often a testimony to the cleverness of early Christians that they could take something like a pagan Triquetra and use it to explain the concept of the Trinity so it loses its pagan meaning.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics So....What you have just said is that you have morphed your religion to emulate and replace older established religions or local practices to fit your own end.
And you call these people 'clever'?
This is why religion needs to be stopped.
No more from me. I think we are all far too set in our ways to change. Which is a shame.
kalamain 1 year ago
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HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
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HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
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HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
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@kalamain if that's what you got out of my post you didn't understand a word I wrote. What I said was the early evangelists worked with what pagans were already familiar with and used those things to help them understand the mysteries of Christianity. The Christian understanding replaced the pagan meaning of the symbol, it didn't "emulate" it. And if that's too much for you to understand, that is a shame.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics can the educated Catholics explain the penchant of RC priests for pedophilia? just curious...
sunbeamcatcher 1 year ago
@sunbeamcatcher there is no penchant among Catholic priests for pedophilia, Most of the abuse within the Church was homosexual in nature, not pedophilia. And even if you look at all the accusations of the abuse put together the total percentage of priests involved in this abuse is far under 5%, which is far less than the percentage of sex abusers that public school teachers. Perhaps you can you explain to me why teachers are so likely to abuse kids and no one seems to care?
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics
"the total percentage of priests THAT WERE CAUGHT in this abuse is far under 5%"
Corrected...
kalamain 1 year ago
@kalamain No different here from the more than 5% of non-priests who were caught in child abuse. What's your point?
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo They were arrested and tried in a secular court. They did not have high ranking clergy hiding them and covering up for them.
They suffered sanctions against them.
Do the clergy have that?....Or do they have your God watching out for them?
kalamain 1 year ago
@kalamain "Or do they have your God watching out for them?"
I believe the Pope said that offending Clerics should be handed over to secular authorities. In the Bible (especially OT) being judged and convicted was a chance to repent from sins. So, it is possible that being handed over to the authorities and "God watching over them" are one in the same.
Also, the media (ie. New York Times) would portray the issue as more widespread then it really is. "If it bleeds, it leads."
sulkow82 1 year ago
@sulkow82 It was the then Cardinal Ratzinger (I may have misspelled that, sorry) that was behind the many instances of moving known pedophiles around so as to not to have them caught. In the popular press here in the UK there has been a fair anount of coverage on the facts. These can be found with a quick look on google I'll bet.
And somewhere around the 10 thousand mark of reported cases is not something to be concerned about? overstated or not.
kalamain 1 year ago
@kalamain Friend, that's just not true. Ratzinger is one of the good guys. If you're really interested in solving this problem--and not just in embarrassing the Catholic Church--you are really going after the wrong person. No one has done more to address this issue than Joseph Ratzinger. Look very carefully at the documents in question and you'll see that he was not "covering up" anything.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo If he is the good guy then why has he not put forward all the information he has on hand about all the issues that have been in the news?
Why has he not handed himself up for concealing all those many cases he knew of when he was in a position to do so?
If absolutely nothing else he is guilty of aiding and abeting known pedophiles.
He was in a position to have done so much yet did nothing. Now he is the pope and has papal infallability....Tell him to come forward!
kalamain 1 year ago
@kalamain First and foremost, as Fr. Barron so ably explained, Pope Benedict never "covered up" anything. In fact, he did his best to make sure these offenders could not re-offend. Something, BTW, that is easier said than done even when an offender is sent to prison for their crimes because contrary to what you may believe, most, even if they are convicted, don't spend much time in jail. You keep acting like Pope has universal legal jurisdiction, but he doesn't.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@kalamain not caught, accused. The prevalence of public school teachers who abuse is way higher, as are the raw numbers of children abused by public school teachers. And public schools are guilty of the same hushing up of abuse that occurred in the Church in the past with the difference being there is no real improvement being seen in abuse in the public schools as there is in the Catholic Church.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics I'd like to see some objective data. What do you mean by abuse, specifically? How were the incidents determined? (i.e., were they reported or witnessed etc...). Which public schools and in what countries? The US public school system is quite different than others but the Catholic church is supposed to be universal.
PrairiePie23 1 year ago
@kalamain Not caught, accused. Corrected.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@sunbeamcatcher Well, I doubt that you're really curious, but if you are, you should know that the number of priest child abusers is below the national average. A child is far more likely to be abused by a parent, a relative, a coach, or a teacher. In fact, between 1990 and 2000, 300,000 children were abused in the public school system in the United States. Speaking of a "penchant" of priests for child molestation is simply slanderous.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago
The problem with the Catholic sex abuse scandal is the institutional cover-up. It seems that people at very high levels have had a tendency to put preservation of their own power and the reputation of the Church ahead of the needs and well-being of their parishioners. There is no way to justify this from any moral or ethical perspective. I doubt that all those involved will actually be held accountable for past cover-ups, but hopefully it won't happen so much going forward.
jontv 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo To be fair, it must be recognized that given what appears to be a pattern of protection, cover-up and failure to acknowledge, let alone report abuse cases, statistics on sexual abuse within the church may be more difficult to accurately determine than within society at large. Hesitancy to report due to fear and embarrassment is problematic society wide, but when you have the added factor of institutionalized cover-up, it makes statements like yours difficult to verify, at best.
pisumalu 1 year ago
@pisumalu I presume you're joking. There is no institution on earth that has more thoroughly and honestly investigated itself on this point than the Catholic Church. We have just barely scraped the surface of this issue in other societal setings, especially in the public schools. God knows that the Church had to be dragged kicking and screaming into this stance, but we are far ahead of any other organization or institution.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo Not joking,. Patrick Wall is one of the few to come forward and detail the lengths to which the Church goes to protect itself at the expense of victims. After working as a fixer in the church, dealing with the aftermath of sexual abusive priests in parishes and schools, Wall left the priesthood, finding that the only way that abuse survivors would get the help and healing they needed was outside of the church hierarchy. His accounts are painfully enlightening.
pisumalu 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo No institution on earth? Have you measured them all directly or is this a comment based on faith? Your defense of the church is analogous to a rapist defending him or her self by saying they were sorrier than all the other rapists. It serves merely to shift the spotlight. It does not retract or obscure the crime and bad behavior that followed/follows.
PrairiePie23 1 year ago
@pisumalu - That is an valid point. With this kind of abuse, it is impossible to get a full accounting, because victims are reluctant to come forward. Of course, that would apply to the baseline data as well.
Father, I know this issue puts you in a tough spot (because of your commitments), and it is wrong to bash the Church unfairly, but I don't see the basis for your claims about it being "far ahead". How could you measure that, objectively?
You're not normally a fan of grading on a curve.
jontv 1 year ago
@jontv Take a look at the John Jay report on sexual abuse within the Catholic Church, a report that was funded and sponsored by the church--and then show me any group or institution that has done anything even comparable. Look at the myriad guidelines in place in the church and the gamut of controls that anyone associated with the church has to accept. And show me any other institution that has anything even comparable.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo Reports, guidelines and controls, only after extensive litigation, does not a caring institution make. Kind of like Exxon's environmental reports, guidelines and controls following the Valdez spill. That's not to say it is necessarily insincere, but it certainly begs the question. I'm also curious as to whether victims are comforted to know that the abuse they suffered at the hands of their spiritual leaders may, perhaps, happen more frequently in other societal institutions.
pisumalu 1 year ago
@pisumalu Come on, friend, that's a cheap shot, and you know it. I was just trying to put the numbers in perspective out of fairness to the church.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo I'm sorry, but let's look at what we're talking about, how the victims of that abuse have been treated, and then look honestly at the issue of fairness.
pisumalu 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo - Not to belabor the point, but you seem to be arguing that the Church has the world's best safeguards against abuse, and yet about the same amount of abuse as the general population. If you're right, shouldn't the Church have much less?
Honestly, I don't want to bash The Church or take on a research project. I hope you're right that the Church is (belatedly) trying to get ahead of this problem. But I am always skeptical in the presence of sweeping claims and low objectivity.
jontv 1 year ago
@jontv In the last year, there were precisely six reported cases of sexual abuse by clergy in the American church. That's in a church of 65,000,000 Catholics and over 50,000 priests. I would say the safeguards are working. Now mind you, none of this is to gainsay that for far too long the church was lax in this regard, but I think it's hard to fault us today.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago 14
@wordonfirevideo - Well, good. As I said, I have no particular interest in finding fault.
Since you brought it up, why do you think the church was so slow to address this issue in a serious way?
jontv 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo Reported to whom?
PrairiePie23 1 year ago
@sunbeamcatcher
There have been pedophiles & other kinds of sexual deviants in ALL places of society. Especially ones dealing with children(something that is among the responsibilities of priests), as these kinds of people like go where they can gain access to their victims.
In all likelihood, those people chose to become priests primarily to get to children.
splashenful 1 year ago
@splashenful "in all likelihood, those people chose to become priests primarily to get to the children." First off you have no idea what you have to do to become a priest and second off, there is no evidence to your claim. I agree with your first statement about all places of society but to go so far as to extract a fallacy such as what you claim shows your ignorance and biasness.
Derrickoify 10 months ago
@HammerofHeretics The word "all" has a specific meaning. Do you really mean all? Also, how do you measure "educated"?
PrairiePie23 1 year ago
@steveblaxton I disagree. People without resources are not capable of deciding what is true. For instance, if you did not know the meteorological explanation of thunder and someone told you it was Zeus and showed you a 3000 page book elaborating, why wouldn't you believe it? An additional resource, an education in meteorology, can change everything about what you perceive as true.
PrairiePie23 1 year ago
@kalamain "White Christian nation, eh?" Have you checked out the numbers of Hispanics, Philipinos, and Vietnamese in the US Catholic Church? Conservative estimates are that by 2050, the US church will be majority Hispanic. But then again, I'm sure you consider those poor souls just a little on the dim side.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo "Have you checked out the numbers of Hispanics, Philipinos, and Vietnamese in the US Catholic Church?" What does that have to do with it being a white Christian nation?
Are you leading that the catholic church (A sub-sect of Christianity I might add) defines the US?
And if the majority of the US church is hispanic by 2050. Why would that be?
Could it be that by then the education system would have finally been brought up to scratch and people would have left?
Possible.
kalamain 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo
adherentsDOTcomSLASNaSLASHNa_46DOTht
This argues your numbers
kalamain 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo a further note: isn't it true that most of the great universities of the world were founded by religious bodies? Consider for example Georgetown University - it's a Jesuit school. I wouldn't exactly put Georgetown on the level of a small 2 year community college, right? lol
sterlingrose33 1 year ago
@kalamain you typify atheistic arrogance. Atheism requires no special intelligence nor education. In fact, anyone who is truly educated knows that many of the greatest minds throughout history have been Christians, and that holds for all fields of study, including science. Religion, when properly understood, does not impede intellect, it directs it and encourages toward moral and ethical paths.
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics *sigh*
Most of the greatest minds throughout history have lived in times where advertising that you were NOT religious meant that you would be, at best, shunned and at worst put to death for heresy.
And as to morals...Sorry, no...The Christian church is far from a font of morality.
It silences those that argue against the churches dogma and puts forward outright lies in its own favour (condoms and AIDS anyone?)
kalamain 1 year ago
@kalamain furthermore, it is organizations like Planned Parenthood that puts out lies about AIDS and condoms. The Church has no need to lie about these things. Their only interest in the discussion is to assure that people understand the true nature of sexuality as God intended it. Planned Parenthood, on the other hand, makes money promoting sexual promiscuity, and I note, have probably done more to increase the spread of AIDS and encourage unplanned pregnancies than any organization on earth
HammerofHeretics 1 year ago
@HammerofHeretics Are you insane?
What lies about condoms? They stop the transfer of bodily fluids which is how AIDS is transmitted!
And if he exists your God created homosexuality...He must have done or there would be no gay humans OR animals that show homosexual behaviour!
When a human goes through puberty they experience extreme needs to procreate. We are not animals that would mate for life. This is a tendancy that we have chosen. Apes tend to have groups of females to one male.
kalamain 1 year ago
@kalamain Why not? You can read the NY Times online.
sterlingrose33 1 year ago
@kalamain Why not? You can read the NY Times online.
sterlingrose33 1 year ago
@kalamain
I am a Filipino and a Roman Catholic. Yes we are a third world country but I take offense to your assertion that religion keeps an iron fist in our nation. If you care to check, we value our faith but our church leaders don't rule as with an iron hand. And we may have few resources when it comes to educational system bu it doesn't mean our brains has less mass than a British or American brain. It just goes to show your ignorance and racism.
JAYJAS0311 1 year ago
@JAYJAS0311 Yes, it does. You at the street level may not see it. But I'll put money that the church has people in postitons of power.
Does your government have religious leaders 'advising' them?
Do you have religious leaders speaking as a part of your governing system?
And the acts of flagellation and reenacted crucifixion are just plain scary
kalamain 1 year ago
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PrairiePie23 1 year ago
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@JAYJAS0311 I was shopping for Christmas presents in Makati City. The carols blared and people were giggling through the corridors when all of the sudden, the music stopped, everyone stood where they were, bowed their heads and joined in afternoon prayer. Except me.
No one said you were stupid or incapable JAYJAS.
On the hill above Tagatay stands a radio tower which was meant to be the Pope's residence; built by the government. I passed the children fishing through dumps to go see it.
PrairiePie23 1 year ago
@kalamain "Religion is playing a smaller and smaller role" in the world today??? Have you read anything outside of the New York Times? In 2008, 19,000,000 joined the Catholic church alone, that's 36 people every second. Catholicism is booming in Asia, Latin America, and especially in Africa. Polls consistently show that upwards of 98% of people, even in the West, believe in God. In Russia, the communist party is gone (thank God!) and the orthodox church is going strong.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago 6
@MrHeatweave10 In the rules discernment of spirits in his spiritual exercises, St. Ignatius of Loyola says of those who are young in faith God uses their own reason/intellect to understand what's right and wrong, this comes in the form of guilt. He describes it as the "sting" of conscience. Unfortunately for many, they are never able see the truth behind the guilt and fall away (or repress) because it's too difficult to bare a seemingly arbitrary guilt imposed by a disconnected religion (cont.)
steveblaxton 1 year ago
Another great video.
Meelahd 1 year ago
Another great video.
Meelahd 1 year ago
No man judges me, and if the does, I don't care because it means nothing to me. Only God can judge, and his judgement is true.
MrHeatwave10 1 year ago
@MrHeatwave10 It should matter if what he says is true. What if God raises up a friend to judge you to help you. This answer is very stupid because God appoint's judges.
james48890743 1 year ago
@james48890743 Thank you very much. I'll think about that.
MrHeatwave10 1 year ago
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MrHeatwave10 1 year ago