Audubon's "Future Scenarios: Energy and Economy" - Chris Martenson Presentation

[cds162]

interesting no one has viewed this (in terms of comments) in a year?

more proof that poeple are more interested in "dancing with the losers"

[jeffc1320]

his actions ARE what matter... i agree... with that, i felt he could have acknowledged the reality of oil depletion... i don't remember seeing that covered in either of his films. ... did I miss it? ... to me, timeframe isn't what's important regarding the debate of global oil depletion... the starting block we ever want is acknowledgment that there is a problem in the first place. ... i don't think there much question that oil depletion is occurring.

[Longsnowsm]

Watch Chris's course called "Crash Course". You can watch it on youtube or you can go to his web site and watch it there. He lays out "peak everything" very well and he is very much aware of the energy issue amongst other things that appear to be approaching or past peak.

[MarkProffitt]

Net energy is a useful approach although it misses the economic value. The net energy of a battery is extremely low but the usefulness of the battery is high.

One other thing not being said is why oil production peaked in the USA. It wasn't because USA ran out of oil. What happened was extremely cheap oil was found in the middle east an other places. So they are using the cheaper stuff first then they will switch back to the US oil. And this already happens occasionally when OPEC gets greedy.

[MarkProffitt]

A stripper well is not marginal in the amount of oil being removed, it is "economically marginal". When the price of oil is so low that its not economically viable to operate a well its abandoned.

Why are US oil wells not economically viable? Saudi oils is a lot easier to pump. Taxes and regulations are a lot less in other places. And now that many of US wells have been abandoned its not economically viable to install all the equipment to pump those wells unless the price of oil very high.

[MarkProffitt]

Saudi Arabia was set up because of oil but because of the US Dollar. This is the same reason the US recent;y invaded Iraq and is threatening Iran. All oil is traded in dollars. This is what has allowed the US to print money / issue debt exponentially for decades. Iraq stopped selling oil for dollars and the US invaded and put returned them to the petrodollar standard.

[moety2]

In short we can't continue along the same path we have been. There has been people talking about this stuff for a long time. The venus project and technocracy pretty much come to the same conclusion. People should look into both to see what's possible. I myself am with the VP. Whatever or whoever you are with doesn't matter as long as we can work together on the common goal.

[EztliAztecatl]

@moety2

I also agree with the VP we can change this for good if we all unite and throw away all which divide us Technocracy has some good points as well as Desteni but keeping money in the picture is their downfall for me. even equal money for all won't work .

[moety2]

Yes, I agree Eztli. It's also encouraging that I am starting to notice more people online that seems to know and on board with the VP.

[jeffc1320]

actually, Venus and its activist arm, the Zeitgeist Movement, suggest energy scarcity is a myth. I know for a fact that Peter Joseph does not believe in Peak Oil -- and that is disappointing, considering I agree with most everything else in his roadmap.

[moety2]

Energy scarcity is only true with current means we use today. If we were to focus on half of what is possible now there would be any energy scarcity period. As for the fact that you know Peter doesn't believe in peak oil, that is wrong. You can actually listen to one of the recent radio shows where he states at one time he didn't believe because of the advantage it would give oil companies but he educated himself on it more and believes it today. Is there anything else I can help you with?

[jeffc1320]

Hope for technology to save the day is just that, hope. Hope is not a policy. Innovation takes time, time we don't have. It also takes investment, and who's going to invest? There is nothing commercially viable that is anywhere near being ready, and won't be for decades. As for PJ, I'm just going by what I heard him tell Alex Jones: That energy scarcity is artificial. Perhaps he has changed, I dunno.

[moety2]

For starters technology does not save the day. People do. We have all the technology to do this now, but people are not informed of the possibilities or think it's not possible. We know it's no easy task but instead of worrying about the problems we are thinking of ways to solve them. Some of which we have already covered. There are a lot of variables to consider and we do not have all the answers. We would like more people to join and help find workable solutions not hope for them.

[moety2]

As I said in my first comment "Energy scarcity is only true with (the) current means we use today" That's what Peter was referring to. That's also clearly stated in Addendum which was the topic during the Alex Jones show. If AJ wasn't so busy acting like a child perhaps Peter could have made that point clear. I clarified Peter's position and told you where you can hear it for yourself. You can no longer claim you don't know. I encourage you to learn more for yourself. Visit the sites.

[Kurzrein]

I think he mentioned in one of the last radio addresses that he is does in fact believe in Peak Oil. I'm pretty sure he said that.

[gavbag1234]

I misread your comment. You were correct about the Venus project and it's relation to the Movement.

Your other remark is incorrect. What Peter Joseph said in the interviews I saw was that he does not have the correct data to know where we are in relation to Peak oil. In other words there are so many lies out there we cannot really know.

This is minutia ultimately as he doesn't say he doesn't "believe in it" he says it is imminent yet indeterminate. His actions are what matter.

[TBonePickensetc]

The Technocracy technate design uses a scientific system .. secular and humanitarian also in the Technocracy Study Course.

This uses energy accounting and not money.

This is a future program if survival is an issue.

You can not get 'there' from here using money economics.

Sustainability is built into this thermodynamic based system.

Mostly this was figured in the 1930's. This design will work today also. It precludes special interest groups and uses science not politics.

[Marcomanseckisax]

Excellent illustration as to the difference between problem and predicament. In a problem, the yes/no option (if-option) still exists, in the predicament, it is no longer there, there is only the how-option, to a greater or lesser degree.

But when I see the Pacific Rim leaders (60% of world energy consumption) foregathering in Singapore and agreeing to disagree, I wonder if these are really the right people for our predicament.

[lighthouseprj]

Good and clear speech. I knew the most of it, but this story can't be told enough.

[MonteCristoRecords]

When are they going to tell us that we cannot drive as much as we want? How will it be rationed? Maybe a little walking (in conjunction with a healthier diet) will lead to savings in fuel and health costs?

[WayAboveYou700]

This is already happening as in the Netherlands they have just introduced a tax on mileage, the more you drive the higher your tax - check it out

[TonyUnplugged]

When do we reach peak coal, natural gas, uranium, thorium, hydroelectric power, tidal power, etc ? What ever happened the the "hydrogen economy" ?

[Mastinox803]

You need to watch his crash course, that should give you a better understanding.

[MarkProffitt]

Part of natural gas is hydrogen. Most hydrogen is split from oil. Hydrogen from splitting water is a thermodynamic loss. It will always take more energy to split the water molecules than you will get from burning that hydrogen, and making water molecules again.

There is enough uranium on dry land to power the entire world for 5,000 years.

[NAVYGOLDEIGHTFOUR]

Your efforts and intellectual honesty are greatly appreciated. I subscribe to your member services and find your newsletter extremely useful in helping me deal with our predicament.

A hearty thank you to you and your organization.

[patriotsundergod]

ur a smart feller

[slipcurve]

Excellent