Here Today, Gone Tomorrow

[ExperimentsinHonesty]

Most of the people who have wanted to meet or email me away from YT have been people with no videos, which I am uncomfortable with, since it seems to be a perversion of the medium. So while the who owns the data issue is a great one, your video made me think of another issue which is, what is the value of the relationships without the context they were created in. Meaning, maybe the people who were scraped in his facebook account, might not have wanted to be contacted outside the medium.

[tlg847]

That's interesting, Bonnie. I think the ways in which people can establish credibility can go beyond posting videos, if allowed to. Hope you're well. Talk soon!

[megalisstudio]

interesting thoughts and vid---ya...i would say WE OWN that data--that relationship--you and are the people who cultivated that..It's like a you meet people in a coffee shop--does that coffee shop own that relationship? Well only while it is in that shop--that is you can talk and things there a certain way--you can't play guitar or dance or sing or paint--but take that outside and do what you want---okay that made no fucking sense....but dig on!!

[tlg847]

No...oddly...for a change...you make lots of sense! (I'm kidding, I'm kidding...no, not about the making sense part...you really do make sense here. Fuck that coffee shop owner...who the fuck does he think he is?) but about the "for a change" part. That was the kidding part. Honest.

[renetto]

Once again Tom... NICE...

[tlg847]

Thanks, Paul. Hey, I hear you swiped that "nice" comment from Lou Ryder...

8^)

[tubeeorrnottubee]

Tom, you hit a subject that has been foremost in my mind for a very long while! ~It concerns me, and at times, saddens me, to think that someday, for some silly minor infraction on my part, or that of a YouTube friend of mine.. or even loss of net connection{!}, that I might never be able to connect with them ever again!!!8-{ I value the great friends and connections I've made here, and I would hate to lose them!

THANKS, Tom!;D

[tlg847]

Simple fact is, we need to take charge of our own relationships. Trust no single social network with all your information!

[snarkdetriomphe]

wow I never considered the possibility of losing touch with my youtube buds... I have some cherished friends now and agree there should be other places we all register with and meet at for the "just-in-case." stickam is also one... thanks tom!

[tlg847]

It is an eye-opener, isn't it snark? It would be awful to try to reconstruct all these relationships. Twitter is a good place to connect with many of the folks you know here. Simple little fun app. Thanks.

[RadicalComedy]

Good points here! I will bookmart your site as well. ~Raven

[tlg847]

Thanks, Raven.

[iapaulin]

Yes, Tom: Can you take your friends to another platform, move and maintain your community? Who owns the social network/relationships built via internet? The users or the providers of internet services? It seems that this issue touches on concepts of democracy, values on which our society has been built and need to remain healthy. Where in the world would you not be able to move, travel back an forth, assembly or stay in touch with your family and friends? Yes, you can migrate... but naked!

[tlg847]

As of now, the network owns the data, so "naked migration" (nice phrase!) is it. Thanks.

[tooomp]

Well, I visited your website and bookmarked it. I think that you make some good points in this video. Personal websites ware beginning to greater relevance as social networking evolves. It's kinda like meeting friends at work then maintaining contact after you worked there.

[tlg847]

Good analogy with the workplace. Thanks.

[ghostwise]

A relationship with a subscriber feels different to me than twitter or facebook, mainly because the latter are protected (it's easy make yourself private with twitter).

In the case of relationships that have become more meaningful through YouTube, emails have almost always been exchanged. But I have my own website so that makes it easier.

[tlg847]

Interesting question re: variety of "subscriber" experience from site to site. Here, you get to see the person's face (if they post vids). To me, that's a huge difference. Thanks.

[ghostwise]

Yes, the face to face experience here makes it very personal and like meeting people. But the percentage of video subscribers (at least in my case) is pretty small. On YouTube, it is ridiculously easy to be an anonymous jerk. The vulnerability by visibility that a video creator is experiences is sometimes unsettling.

[tlg847]

Asymmetrical, for sure. Important to be able to simply let your videos go...whatever people think of them, they think of them. Not always easy but one of the real lessons I've learned.

[f3xpgm]

I have outside contact with the people i most like, the people i most relate too on YouTube!

But you are right, that would be very cool! Nice idea and video Tom! Hug!

[tlg847]

Thanks.

[periurban]

Great video as ever. We need to own what we value or it has no value.

[tlg847]

Nicely put, Peri. Thanks.

[talk74]

I forget the name for it but aren't you making the argument for a universal internet login - where everyone has one unique identity? It would solve the problem you describe, unless, of course, your misdemeanour got you banned from the internet altogether! But isn't that where things are likely to go?

[tlg847]

Yes, the OpenID project is clearly moving in that direction. I think we'll see a lot more of that movement in '08.

[kenrg]

Every few videos, or in the descriptions, you need to remind people of your own web address that you control and can't be kicked off of. Otherwise, once YT boots us, nobody will know where to go if they want to keep up.

[tlg847]

I like that: "once YT boots us..."

Optimist, eh?

[NaturalTwentyFilms]

My thought is that on YouTube (and most of the popular social networks) the relationships are esoteric but they are our own. The data belongs to the service provider. The data and the relationship are intertwined only in that without the data we cannot connect. So, if we want to "own" or "make real" the relationships we need to trade data that is not owned by the service provider, such as e-mail addresses (as you said).

From a fellow Yankee fan.

[tlg847]

Yes, we do. Question is whether some social network will step up and enable us to do that trading without all the extra work. Somebody will, and that will change the game. Thanks.

Pitchers and catchers report to spring training in 5 weeks!

[NaturalTwentyFilms]

And sadly, Clemens reports to a hearing...

[tlg847]

After filing a defamation of character suit today against McNamee...what a mess!

[DrLemur]

I don't think YT is sensitive enough to this issue at all, if they were, there would be more by the way of warnings and negotiation, especially for old school users of the site before being suspended. Yep your lumped in with the "old school" Tom.

[tlg847]

Hey, Dan! Yup, I think they just leave it to us to figure all this stuff out. We old school folks get dumped just as fast, I've learned since being on Council. Nobody's immune.

[ockteby]

Interesting video, and coincides with a computer program I am developing. When completed I will send you a copy to use and beta test.

Frank

[tlg847]

You're on! Just as long as it doesn't break YT's TOS!!

[ockteby]

No problem, Tom I am sure we can stay within the YouTube "TOS".

[dallasINtokyo]

nice food for thought. Noticed your TED pillow back there. Are you involved with that organization? I love those TED Talks

[tlg847]

Thanks. No, I'm a regular TED attendee, getting ready to take in my ninth TED in February.

[ghostwise]

An actual TED attendee. I'm jealous. Hope it's a great year at the conference.

[tlg847]

Me, too!

[hellyersonline]

interesting point. I always feel that facebook encouraged you to be more "real" than myspace or YT which is why i was hesitant to go on it at first. There is a measure of security in maintaining a certain amount of anonymity online.

Any argument for release of data is bound to be countered by the internet fraud provention lobby...it's a really interesting point, i can't say i have any clue which way this will go

[tlg847]

Security will, of course, be a huge concern, as will "permission." It's going to be very interesting.

[Marihani]

The danger of account deletion is a good argument for having same-name accounts on at least 2 sites.

I get the idea of Twitter - networking. But those blocks seem a bit difficult to sort out, at least to start with.

I think there are at least 2 different YT/LV user forums off-site, though.

I like the idea of being a tribe. Yeah - vloggerians!

[tlg847]

yes, that's true Marihani, but I think we need to have easier ways to keep the vloggerians connected. As for Twitter, the key is following people and getting friends to follow you. I used it for months before getting serious about it and the difference is night/day. Thanks.

[Marihani]

You mentioned (above) something dot io - not sure what you meant - is io like com?

The trouble with some is that they have different user-names for each site they are on, which makes it difficult to google them. But if they mention that - eg - I am Marihani on Youtube - on their other account, they will be googleable. So I could search for tlg840 youtube, and should find you on other sites where you have mentioned this. Or am I just too lazy to sign up to YET ANOTHER site? ;-)

[tlg847]

Yeah, Marihani, that dot io was the first I've ever seen. My Soup page can be found at h t t p colon double slash tlg847 dot soup dot io slash. It aggregates stuff I post here, on Twitter and on my blog. That's the beginning a something.

[Marihani]

Okay - I've registered and friended you on there. It looks promising, but the best thing would be if you could "simply" add the url to your pages. LV, for example, is not on their list - sadly - as that is where my "good" videos are, and I would love somewhere to merge it all!

[tlg847]

I'm sure they'll expand their partnerships soon. This is the beginning of the move towards one-stop producer-centric content aggregation. Exciting.

[breezin48]

Very interesting topic. I am a novice with internet communication and am so glad I found you. Thanks so much for the information you put out. They better not kick you out! I need you! -sue

[tlg847]

There's so much to learn, Sue. Just stay with it 'cause the best companies are going to make it MUCH easier for you to communicate with interesting people in '08. Thanks.

[mixedpixel]

thats why i connected you on linkedin :)

[tlg847]

Hi, 'Gina. Yup, glad you did...but you should come over to Twitter; it's very lively!

[mixedpixel]

i did not know that site but i'll check it out

seeya

[tlg847]

Send me a PM and I'll fill you in.

[jrt31169]

is the stupid thing wearing the Yankee's hat? No really, just kidding. Nonetheless, this is a big issue/worry. How do we as subscribers keep our security so only certain people could access our data. Secondly, there is much different story of whether you ask for our data or just steal our data. Then again this is comming from someone too embarrased to make a video. And I hope YT doesn't remove you as well.

[tlg847]

Security and permission are key issues, as you say. As for embarrassment: come on, that's so 20th century! Jump in!

Now, about that hat remark...

[jrt31169]

ha ha, what about that hat remark. i have been thinking about that "permission" aspect. does it mean by clicking that "subscribe" button at the top of the page that we have given that permission. at this point, i don't think we have (legally, right?). but doesn't it kind of represent an agreement? maybe it can be an option type thing though. and maybe in 100 years i will be out of the 20th century (sorry just a little behind).

[tlg847]

I don't think subscribing is giving permission to share information. First off, with so many aliases and no verified identity here, anybody can say they're anybody, so we never really know who we're communicating with. Tough to claim permission in that context. Optional is another story. Thanks.

[KennyWrites]

There's an article this month in Wired about data scraping. And Google recently released Open Social, a system for interacting with friends across different websites. Another great video; thanks Tom!

[tlg847]

Saw that Wired piece, Kenny. OpenID, Open Social; these are the kinds of apps that will enable us to have the freedom, flexibility and security we're looking for. Thanks...good to hear from you.

[TamHickey67]

Google, without doubt is nothing more than a money making machine who really don't give a damn about it's users. This is not a slight on the people who work at YT, just an observation that huge companies generally don't care about the rest of us if we're not attracting advertisers etc. People are getting kicked off of YT for what seems very innocuous reasons like singing cover versions of songs, whilst near porn is allowed to remain. The reason quite simply is views and revenues.

[UncleJohn97420]

I agree I had ads poping up on a few of my vids when im not even a partner, wasnt this account but another one of my accounts. I almost sent a nasty email to youtube about it, but soon enough the ads stopped. I dont mind ads, but darn it all if they want to advertise on my vids they best least pay me a penny per ad.lol I aint greedy but to me the ads mess up the look and feel of what the person on the videos is trying to send.

And tom no worries I dont think you have to worrie.

[tlg847]

I think we better all get used to ads in videos or look for sites that charge subscription fees. After all these years those are still the only two economic models for publishing anything. Thanks.

[tlg847]

I'm sympathetic to Google's challenge: make money (they're a publicly traded US corporation, after all) and enable connectivity. When in doubt, they almost have to choose the former. I don't think that means they don't care about the latter, only that they have clear priorities. Those priorities may not always jibe with ours. Thanks.

[UncleJohn97420]

Ah but you see this is how it should work..

Google gets paid for hosting ads.

Google takes a 10th of a percent of that and gives it to some one who has videos that host those ads, if they want to allow MORE ads, on the side, on channel..etc.. Then they pay a full percent of there ad revenue generated by there ads, and a tenth percent of clicks made to those ads.

In this way google makes money, the people that are geting ads on there vids are making money.

[ohjoannabanana]

This is a very interesting topic. I think at the very least I will print out a list of the people that I subscribe too and those that subscribe to me, just to have on file incase I loose my YT account and need to make a new one.

[tlg847]

Paper...what a concept!

Thanks.

[mikma]

mikma was here

[tlg847]

Hi, Mik.

[DahliaK]

Drawn by the Rorschach blot, I visited your channel page. Wow, that's really a nice design! One of the better ones I've seen. I would have commented on the page but you don't have a place for that, so I came back here.

[tlg847]

Appreciate that. I decided to make some changes last week. I turned off channel comments because they were such a spam magnet.

[dabbuhl]

It would be a sad, sad day, the day that you get or got banned. I hope this would never happen. You are a credit to YouTube, even if you only have 1500 subs.

[tlg847]

Thanks for the kind words.

[reqtangle]

"Well hi, it's Tom" Lol nice video.

[tlg847]

Do I say that?

8^)

[reqtangle]

haha yes every time. Go Dodgers! :)

[tlg847]

Really? (Just kidding!)

I'm with ya on the Dodgers in the NL! Go Joe!!

[thefrozenghost]

Interesting point. I have found that in the course of developing those strong relationships with people here, there is an exchange of personal email addresses in every case. Also, invitations to join them on other sites such as, Stickam, Twitter, MySpace, etc...

It seems that regardless of your subscription total, we all seem to get around 25% of that number of views on our vids, and less than half of those will comment.

[tlg847]

Yes, the other sites are making it easier to maintain relationships started here. I'm glad that's happening. After all, it's about us, not about YT. Those numbers seem about right to me. Thanks.

[Frequency100]

Interesting stuff here buddy. I'd like to get your home address so I can send you a Boston Red Sox cap. LOL

[martybird57]

perfect comment!

[tlg847]

Hey! Knock it off!

[tlg847]

Ahem. I'm good with this one, thanks. Besides, my damned son-in-law already tromps around here wearing all that Sawx paraphernalia. After he leaves it takes days to exorcise the bad juju. 8^)

[Frequency100]

I don't know your son-in-law, but he sounds like a good man. :)

[tlg847]

Except for his sports rooting preferences, he is.

[martybird57]

^^^that's what Clemens says, too.

[tlg847]

Hey, Roger is as clean as the new-fallen...slush!

[x59324]

Google is getting hit with a lot of international lawsuits where free speech laws don't carry, because certain products being advertised next to controversial vidoes and controversial products are being advertised next reputable/children's videos. At the end of the day, follow the money. Google is going to protect its money making empire as most folks would/do.

[tlg847]

As you say, Google must keep its corporate priorities straight: shareholder value. This leads to decisions that many of us wouldn't make. Global attention to free speech will be a problem for many companies/countries.

[HowLongCanUMakeAName]

hey tom,

(hat looks good)

i play games online and they have recognized the same sort of requests from gamers. there is specialized third party software that connects gamers letting them know what game they are playing at any time. perhaps thats the future of social networking; one centralized hub that recognizes and ties the various networks together.

[tlg847]

Yes, gamers must be at the forefront of this movement. As one game loses luster and another one rises I can see whole tribes of gamers wanting to move en masse. Thanks.

[komikero]

There are ways to protect the online relationships you value right now. Perhaps you can set up a reliable website, maybe blogspot, or maybe your own domain, and put that link on your profile, and make a video pointing it out. That way, those who do want to get in touch with you outside You Tube can do so.

[tlg847]

Thanks. My company website and blog are listed in my profile but many people don't look at those things. Others don't have those assets but everyone has an email address.

[randomwritings]

Interesting point - when I went walkabout those who wanted/needed to find me managed to do so - which is both comforting and scary

[tlg847]

That's because "privacy" is dead.

[jrsnyderjr]

You've touched upon an issue that I've also been reading about (surprise!) and working on my own best back up plan. Over the past 15 years I've found 10-15 people that I've consistently found or followed starting with the first real site I was on. The issue of who owns the data is coming to a forefront because more people are online socially and now enterprise and privacy concerns are involved.

[tlg847]

Certainly the intersection of privacy, security and permission will define where this all goes this year. Thanks.

[LeSaMilano]

Fascinating discussion Tom - and as usual most timely- was just having a debate with someone about this very thing this weekend.

I'm a wave rider and not a trend setter but I am looking forward to some big changes in this area.

cheers

Lesley

[tlg847]

You ride the waves in lovely fashion, my dear. Keep surfin' away!

[FantasticBabblings]

Tom, you might have hit upon the next moneymaker on the web. Hire some programmers before somebody else has the idea. A central clearinghouse site for social network information where people can register and link to all of their social networking sites and IDs.

[tlg847]

It's already happening, Phil. Check out soup dot io, which aggregates many of a user's material, including blog posts, YT vids, delicious page saves, etc. This is going to be a huge movement. Thanks. Lunch soon?

[amillionfaces]

This happened recently with me on a fairly large forum (that I used to own but I handed over to someone else.) When the site went down and never came back up, I realized that the only means of connecting with many people I've been talking to for over four years was gone. I haven't heard from most of them since.

[tlg847]

It can be a little disconcerting when people realize they have no other means of communicating.

Of course, there are some folks I'd be happy not to communicate with any longer! Thanks.

[MoparWheels1990]

Ban my IP address.

[dogfraps111]

yt DOES NOT CARE. do not get attached to your accounts

[tlg847]

I think YT cares about maintaining the primary relationship with each of us but not so much about helping us to have relationships with each other. Thanks.

[WallyWorldCommando]

gothreaper quit being so negative, your problem here is not with YT, its the way you acted while you were involved in a manor other than that of a troll which you are now.

[wltsm]

I've only just found your channel, and have subscribed!

I really like your videos, keep them coming!

[tlg847]

Thanks very much.

[ovationceleb]

I also read your blog.

[tlg847]

Well, thank you! I believe that soon we'll only have one place to go for all of our creative material.

[hellorodney]

5*,,,thanks for bringing up new issues that do matter

[tlg847]

Thanks, Rodney. You're one of the people I'd want to stay in touch with, YT or no YT.

[hellorodney]

ditto

thanks

[That80sGuy1972]

Put "tlg847" in your tags on a new account... your fans will probably re-find you in a YouTube search.

[tlg847]

Funny how often I forget to do that! Thanks.

[That80sGuy1972]

As for who owns the information... that depends on where you sign on the dotted line (a good way to bypass rights). On the internet, it often happens with checking the "yes" box and clicking on Accept.

y/w BTW ;)

[tlg847]

t/y 8^) Yup, that little check box could get you to sell your car if you're not careful!

[fallofautumndistro]

Of my 3,300 subs, I would probably actually hear from 10 of them again were I ever to be suspended. People are fickle. And some of those people only contact people because of their popularity, etc. But those ten or so people I love and would want to continue to grow those relationships.

[tlg847]

You may be right, Alan. As these online relationships develop, with more contact, meetups, etc., I believe we will develop more and more of those more meaningful connections. Thanks.