Many verses have been taken out of niv bible as these verses do not exist in early ancient manuscripts such verse is acts:8.37. so if there is curruption now how can we trust that early books have not been currupted which means they can never be sure destroying credibility. Point 2: why didnt the holy spirit correct this 100's or 1000's years ago yet just in modern age when new older manuscripts are discovered the bible is being corrected? This proves christians dont have the holy spirit
@pamuk7 Because it's been proven that the manuscripts we have today teach the same gospel as what was written in the first century. The burden of proof is on the Muslims to prove otherwise.
@SoldierOfChrist110 are you alright mate? The manuscripts what we have were written MUCH after Jesus death. A lot of difference. I think you need to watch a debate of Shabir Ally vs Dr. Buzzard. One worthy Christian whom i wanna listen. The gospel that Jesus preached.
@flexpape The quran has been changed, the original portions which were recited during the time of muhammad were burned during the reign of Othmans caliphate, we can use the same arguement with your holy book that you use with the gospel. you obviously did not watch Dr Whites rebuttal. selective hearing eh?!
All religion needs to be made illegal! Nothing good for humanity has ever resulted from this fairy tale stories! If you want to keep religion than you must be willing to say it is more fiction than actual reality!
@thecanadianstoner1 More people have died at the hands of secular atheism in the past 100 years than have died from relegion in the past 1000 years added up altogether! Stalin ring a bell, Pol Pot, Chairman Meo , Hitler ?
I don't get Dr. white's attack. If the atheist critics are wrong in their attacks then show where their arguments are wrong. By his standard he can only use christian scholars to talk about the bible and only Muslim scholars to speak about the Quran, how can anyone learn anything with this methodology?
Shabir Ally came and talked boldly from memory.. this man spent 20 mins reading...... and could not support if the NT was inspired by God but rather attack the Qur'an///
If Jesus is God like some of the people in this video claim, then when Jesus
died on the cross and was in the
grave for 3 days (like the Gospels claim) then that must have meant that God was dead for 3 days. Think about the blasphemy with this, yet these people have no idea what they are thinking. God has no co occupants in his throne, that would equate to Polytheism!!
Does anyone have seen any debate between Muslim and Christian where we could see the Christian win. .?
believe me, It doesn't exist.
the amazing thing is that most of Muslims debaters are not native Muslims, and they have less knowledge about islam comparing with Arabs Muslims, but they have the power of truth with them
I'm a christian and regardless of the behavior of the people on this site, I would like say that i was very happy to see the professional behavior displayed by both James White and Shabbir Ally. Very few times have I seen a debate where both opponents seem to enjoy the company of each other. Hope all debates would be like that.
@jonjon1457 I have watched many Christian Muslim debates and of them all, my favorite Muslim debater (I am not Muslim) is Shabir Ally. He is such a gentlemen and a respectable person. He does not get angry when he is challenged on what he believes nor does he become belligerent at his opponent. I do not accept his assertion that Islam is the true path to God. I see Islam as a replacement theology.
i thought james white was smart scholar of christian,seems like he havnt seen other debates which all his eligation on Quran and prophet Mohmmad has been answerd in many many debates so in shabir ally so in dr zakir naik so in Ahmed deedat so in jamal badawi debates with all the debaters of christan yet hes asking a question? i thought this debate is about the new testament only instead clearing out shabir Ally points. he points on Quran and Mohmmad. here it puts me in doubt dat if knows bible.
@shieldsff you mean the way that says that vegetation came before the sun? That God's day is 1000 years, so the vegetation would've died? That even if it was 24 hours, it wouldn't make sense since hours were created based on the sun, created after vegetation. As a christian, you believe a man in the middle of the desert "fabricated" the embryonic stages, the movement of the earth, sun and moon, mountains and their role in geology, and much more I can't fit in this small-as-crap comment box.
I have watched majority of Whites Debates this is the only time i can remember when he made a mistake so i have to disagree if a person makes one mistake that does not mean you need to be skeptical
@Nazam44 For example he assumes that the Bible is inerrant and that the narration in the Gospels are exactly the way it actually happen. He believes that Jesus and Paul both believe in the Trinity and he assumes that the writers of the Bible are exactly the say they are. You can go to the links provided for more detail discussion.
@Nazam44 where is the mistake there? you have to put in context (muslims don't know what that is) James White is sharing his knowledge about Chrisitanity, of course as you did if believe the kuran is inerrant word of God then you'll say that James White made a mistake, in the same stand Christians will say Shabbir Ally is wrong for even consider the kuran as inerrant so put it in CONTEXT and you'll learn
Subhan Allah. 1:15:05 This is such a pathetic statement that mark was in rush and didn't have enough time to put together all information...you are kidding man. The Book called Aqeeda tul Wastia written by Imam Ibn Taimiah raheem ullah alayehe about 700 years ago just between Asr and Salat ul Isha meaning in about 4 hours approximately and this book has been explained further by no. of scholars came after him and no mistake and beautiful summarized book on Aqeedah.
A final point I would raise is that the central truth of the original prophets was NOT submission anywhere or that there is a unitary god (for example, both baal & molech were claimed as [names] for god). The central truth is that there is One God and only One True & Living God. It is this God we are commanded to worship. Also, Muhamm. claims that he received his revelations from an angelic being. Can any examples be offered of earlier prophets who received written revelations from angels
@pantherlake2002 - I am just saying that I don' think that the main teachings of the original scriptures anywhere is that one must 'submit' to God. Jesus accepted the OT (and NEVER said that the Hebrew scriptures came from an angel or that His own words came from an angel ) but Islams claims that both were 'corrupted'- but how can that be if all the scriptures teach God is one. Again, if allah did not protect truth of the originals how can someone be 100% sure that the truth of the Qu'ran
@shieldsff I feel your just picking and choosing whatever Bible verse suit you best but you ignore other verses. With this approach you can make the Bible say anything that you want to say. And you should not impose your criteria upon others who don't accept your criteria. Otherwise you are making a strawman point.
@shieldsff You make the assumption that Muslims believe in every part of the Bible to be true and you quoted to them as fact but Muslims don't accept all of the Bible but only those parts that agree with the Quran.
am I, .?!? sorry, my friend, but I do no such thing. The questions I have put forth here are based completely on what muslims I have spoken with have told me are the truth & requirements of Islam, my own faith (christianity) and the original scriptures. I have been told that (one of ) the main teachings of Islam & the Bible is 'submission' - ok then, where does it, in fact, assert or teach that ? We are told an angel from the BIble gave the Koran to Muhammad - what's the proof ?
@Nazam44 - Do you think so ?!? I don't think that I do that. It is clear that islam rejects many teachings in the Bible; that is not in dispute here. The question (AGAIN) is whether muslims have a valid basis for accepting the koran as valid and for rejecting the enitire truth of the Bible. This is the flaw of your arguments: it is contradictory to say you will accept what you like and reject what you did not like/understand. Jesus said he is THE way and THE truth. Any other way is a dececption
No. John the Baptist was executed before tradition holds these texts were written.
John is one of the Disciples. However, the "Gospel of John" is anonymous, as the other 3 Gospels and many of the books in the New Testament. It was attributed to John by Church fathers a few hundred years after it was written.
@MrSuperhaq After creating this amazing universe, havens and earth, God became a man and confusingly at the same time also a son of himself, and then God sacrificed his son to save the world, but if this was true then this makes God an imperfect God, because if God killed himself then who is running the universe, and if he really killed his son then still again the job wasn't done right, because every new born baby is born in sin. God doesn't need to do these kind of things, only humans do
I assume that you are a Muslim given your information on the video. I would like to thank you for posting the entire debate and not editing it to tailor to your presuppositions. As a Christian I am constantly finding videos full of misrepresentions.
Honestly White had no points,he insisted that Jesus is God or trinity issue in each of his statement,instead of sticking to the point,he is not a great speaker,he explains as if he is reading the news paper,while his opponent use his own brain and mentioned the chapters Shabir is fantastic,but I dont like this type of discussion too many talks few proof
lol, James White wasted 20 mins talking about consistency and Quran when he should have been stating evidences/reasons on why the Bible is the inspired Word of God. That was a poor performance. Shabir Ally caught that and pointed it out.
James White gave a lot of strong points in his first rebuttal.He laid the evidences for the N.T as they are.Very informative.On the other hand,Ally failed poorly to addressed the very standard he used for the Bible and not for the Quran.Mr.White gave a clear and historical scenario against Mr.Ally's arguments.This debate is highly academic by two brilliant debaters.Ally never denied the fact that there were no way to detect the original word rendered for the Quran before Uthman in 2nd to 3rd cen
Mr. White says Muslim scholars lack consistency. If you see and analyze this debate in detail you'll realize that Mr White is a lot more inconsistent in his arguments than Shabir. And about the verse in the bible in which Prophet Jesus (peace and blessings of Allah be on to him) was addressed as Lord, is vague. Lord doesn't necessarily refer to God. There is no unambiguous statement in the complete bible where Jesus Christ tells his people that he is God or to Worship him.
The word used is Kudios, in the Greek Septuagint, which is what the authors of the New Testament used, was only used for YHVH....which is why Shabir conceded the point...every Greek speaking Christian listening or reading the text would understand clearly that it gives Christ deity
@Romans9Apologetics The term kyrios, which means lord, is a specific title which can refer to an ordinary human being (See;1 Peter 3:6) and can also refer to God. So it is ambiguous.
Yes, but the word doesn't have one meaning even if it was used for YHVH. What I'm interested is, a non-ambiguous verse in which Prophet Jesus (Peace and blessings of Allah swt be on to him) said he is God!
1The word in the Greek Old Testament is only used for YHVH. It was used to replace in many areas Adonai.
2 This Ahmed Deedat demand is mute. Because even if the statement exists, you would say it is corrupted. I mean I am already well aware of the picking and choosing of verses in the Bible, and the robbing of context of other verses. Things you and I hate for people to do to the Quran, yet you don't care for them to do to the Bible.
there are so many place jesus equates himself with god. In john chp 10 he says "i and the father are one". In matthew chp 28 he states "i have been given all authority on heaven and on earth". In luke chp 6 he states "the son of man has been given authority on earth to forgive sins". Even in the old testament in the book of Isaiah it states in chp 9 it states "behold, a child in born, and he will be called wonderful cousellor, everlasting god, prince of peace". thats proof enough
Interesting debate. It does not change the fact that the NT is rooted in the fact that salvation is based and concluded in worshiping Jesus as God, Saviour and Creator. Since when did worship shift from God to Jesus? It only seems valid if Jesus is God the Father.
@obviouslyso No. Jesus never claimed to be God the Father. No Christian has ever believed that either. Jesus is God, but NOT God the Father. He is God the Son, distinct from the Father. God manifests His ONE Being in three personally distinct ways, namely as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Son of God - God in flesh. Yes he claimed to be God - NOT the Father, but indeed God. Please message me if you would like to discuss this.
wow Nakdimon316 thnks he's smart...apparently he doesnt do his homework very well..ppl there is a difference between a verse and a hadith...those claimed "verses" were corrected by the prophet they were meant as hadiths not qura'nic verses
James , the fact is that you are way too clueless about the Quran , I mean you dont know even the basics. On the other hand Shabir Ally not only knows alot about Quran but knows alot more about bible that you do. Just dont come up with written , nonacademic type of commoners debate materials. Not only that, you are trying to cool things a little too much. You dont hide any thing .. you just lie openly. You totally unimpressed me. Specially on your "consistency" non sense.
James , the fact is that you are way too clueless about the Quran , I mean you dont know even the basics. On the other hand Shabir Ally not only knows alot about Quran but knows alot more about bible that you do. Just dont come up with written , nonacademic type of commoners debate materials. Not only that, you are trying to cool things a little too much. You dont hide any thing .. you just lie openly. Oh by the way you came here for debate , not for mediation. You totally unimpressed me.
James , the fact is that you are way too clueless about the Quran , I mean you dont know even the basics. On the other hand Shabir Ally not only knows alot about Quran but knows alot more about bible that you do. Just dont come up with written , nonacademic type of commoners debate materials. Not only that, you are trying to cool things a little too much. You dont hide any thing .. you just lie openly. Oh by the way you came here for debate , not for mediation. You unimpressed me.
James , the fact is that you are way too clueless about the Quran , I mean you dont know even the basics. On the other hand Shabir Ally not only knows alot about Quran but knows alot more about bible that you do. Just dont come up with written , nonacademic type of commoners debate materials.
James , the fact is that you are way too clueless about the Quran , I mean you dont know even the basics. On the other hand Shabir Ally not only knows alot about Quran but knows alot more about baible that you do. Just dont come up with written , nonacademic type of commoners debate materials.
its interesting to listen to the religious debate ..I wonder though who has the lock on truth ..they cant both be right ..it may be possible that neither is right ..hmmm ..does it seem strange to anyone else that this great god the christians and muslims and jews claim to be associated with only seems to be interested in the small group of people in the middle east ..probably the most insane area of the planet ...isnt it more likely that all these beliefs were just plagerisms of nothingness hmm
@laserwolf130, The truth is in the prophecies. Qur'an has no prophecies, but The Bible does- from the Beginning (Genesis) to the end (Revelation). I've sent this to several Muslims and posted them as mush as I could on their sites before my comments stop appearing , and NONE has debunked this video:
"Jesus Christ is Lord - Spirit of Prophecy"
watch?v=Ezy0cfi4ub8
Plus, there are the historical documents outside the Bible but that would be another video.
@selious04 if u say bible has prophecies then all of the prophecies should be fulfilled if there is single prophecy which is worng then it cannot be the word of god here are some unfulfilled prophecies Genesis, Chapter No. 4, Verse No. 12, it says… ‘God told Cain: you will never be able to settle you will be a wanderer.’ Few Verses later on Genesis, Chapter No.4, Verse No.17, says…‘Cain built up a city’ – unfulfilled prophecy.
white is very correct. If you start from a presupposition that something is incorrect your inevitably gonna find errors from your own perspective. And it is also true that the quran as it is written now it the the uthmanian version of it. The fact is that there were many varying interpretations of it after muhammad died because although it was written in recitations, it was not actually compiled into a book
@Ashraff1971 actually if i took the quran when it was recitied by muhammad and compare it to now there is a difference. And the difference is the fact that 13 years after muhammad died, during the reign of the caliph Uthman, their were varying distortions of the quran, and Uthman gathered them up, had them all burned and then issue the "zayd codex"(after muhammad's secretary) as the standard version, without even knowing if zayds copy is the right one.
@Ashraff1971 Ok then let me give you a few examples about changes in the Quran: The verse of suckling was in the Quran when Muammad lived according to Aisha (Sahih Muslim Book 8, Number 3421), where is it now? The verse of Stoning was in th Quran when Muhammad lived according to Umar (Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816) where is it now? Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 468 says your Quran used to read "by the creature" but now it reads " by the creator", a BIG difference. Now what?
@navos2003 yes i agree.I am a Christian but i definitely appreciate his presentation.It was very clear and he shows alot of humility.Very smart as well.James white is might be too smart for me though lol
Is JAMES white running & reading essay to be copied by a bunch of students,, it suppose to be a dialogue or debate ,,not a pre -written 20 mnts essay ,,atleast SHABBIR ALLY spoke without a pre -written essay writings ,,cos i think he has the knowledge to be around a debate ,,,well done ALLY
White did not defend the Bible at all in this debate.
Trinitarian Christianity is not a Monotheistic religion by its very definition.
The fact White agrees that verses have been added to the Bible proves it fallability.
The Bible contains revelation but also mans falsehood. Yet even the revelation it contains is not directly from Jesus as he was not involved in its creation (the Bible).
@Saracen187 Is JAMES white running & reading essay to be copied by a bunch of students,, it suppose to be a dialogue or debate ,,not a pre -written 20 mnts essay ,,atleast SHABBIR ALLY spoke without a pre -written essay writings ,,cos i think he has the knowledge to be around a debate ,,,well done ALLY
@Saracen187 Is JAMES white running & reading essay to be copied by a bunch of students,, it suppose to be a dialogue or debate ,,not a pre -written 20 mnts essay ,,atleast SHABBIR ALLY spoke without a pre -written essay writings ,,cos i think he has the knowledge to be around a debate ,,,well done ALLY
White did not defend the Bible at all in this debate.
That's correct the bible does not need defense or anything by anyone else, be it James White or criticm favourable or unfavourable from ISLAM preachers, GOD did it right the first time, something you and your fellow muslim in the Video refuse to accept . 2 Choices either you accept Christ as the Son of God or you don't., these debates are pretty useless. There is more then enough proof in the NT, Jesus is the SOG
@TeraPeoPunjabi, If the arguments are "weak" <------------SUBJECTIVE, then make a website and article debunking NT manuscript reliablity, I'll be the first to visit.
@malinehydara WRONG, NT does not even come close to Hadith as the science and methodology of hadith is far superior to NT collection. This is a subject by itself.. if Christian scholars studied hadith "properly" they won't find any perceived contradiction nor raise any issue during their debates.
Why are they comparing the NT to Qur'an which is the inspired word of the All-Mighty Creator...!
The NT is an account of HERE-SAYS of people through out a period of time about the saying and actions of Jesus(pbh)... and this is similar to the Hadith.
Incidentally they were both collected almost the same length of time after the disappearance of the respective Prophets.
james white goes off the topic far too much, explains textual variant that one writer of the NT was in a bit of a hurry or didnt have enough paper. james white uses far too much grease to smooth out his arguments
@takewhole and he never seems to understand the fact that the original Injeel was not in GREEK!!! but yet he still acts like the "oldest" source is the "original" source
Why can you not leave comments on James Whites videos on youtube, its so frustrating, he likes to give his spiel on camera but does not allow a response or discussion on what he has said, maybe he likes it that way.
Muslims do not say that u've to be muslim(in the sense of praying 5 times a day, fasting ramadan, etc.) to go to heaven. rather you'd have to be a muslim in the sense of submission to God and making no partners with him in ordr to go to heaven. I guess it's fair that God will only allow u to enter his heaven if u believe in Him.
If you see the diff you'd see that christianity and Judaism are named after persons but islam is not named Muhammadiasm. Islam means submission to God.
@candiceevans1 the quran is a book that is primarily committed to memory, even now if ALL the copies of the quran was burned i could within a few hours have at least 200 people in my small town recite the quran from start to finish and give you an accurate rendition of the quran. If the quran had been tampered with at any stage it would stick out like a sore thumb and even so, people didnt go off the written record, they MEMORISED the quran so that it is impossible to lose or burn it
Show me a book written by 44 authors who never saw each other nor saw each others writings but still predicted the same future event thousands of years before by each adding a little prophecy which was fulfilled in history. It has never happened but one time :in the bible. David predicted that JESUS would be pierced in his hands and feet 1000 years before JESUS came. Isaiah predicted the messiah would be born of a virgin 700 years before JESUS came into our world. THAT is proof
Christians must think for a moment all this debates that are being won by Muslims debating Christians. God is telling the Christians something lol and still they arrogantly close their eyes.
" He said to them, " This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms. "
" Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, " This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day. "
@candiceevans1 you cant burn someone memory.the quran was memorized by d companions of the propehet so it does matter if you destroy writen copies of the quran.
from the first words Shabir was very direct without any mistake opening the case .. the other should represent the same points but instead he examen the Islamic faith instead of responding to the biblical contradiction from a biblical point of view
Because , as soon as the Christian Scholars get the Grip on the Bible and its words , SOME BODY , Pull the Rug from under them . by Changing the Bible.
'The Bible is inspired by God therefore it is the truth". If God is also the inspiration for the Universe and all that it entails then God would also be responsible for the inspiration for the doctrine of every other religion(including satanism). Which is the 'true' one that we should follow? Should we pretend to know the will of God? I try to never pretend to know Truth.
I don't follow doctrines. I read and appreciate them for what they are. Beautiful works of literature.
I would like to add that there is no evidence whatsoever of any sect that predates the New Testament that believed Christ was a mortal Prophet who did not die on the cross...
It is pointless to carry on in debates where the only evidence by the other side is twisting the words from a document written by someone stating that a man has died.
It would be like me taking a document about Abraham Lincoln and saying that he did not die because people survive gun shot wounds.
The A.Lincoln analogy dosn't work because being shot by a gun and being hung on a cross are two different things. Historically people have been on the cross for a couple of day and still remain alive, since crucifixtion pierced no vital body organ. Had their been shot at the head that would have been entirely different matter,
Never there was no one in the first century claiming that Christ did not die on the cross. The only heretical sect that claimed he did not were those who claimed he was not flesh and blood and was completely God.
There is no evidence whatsoever of a sect of Christians who taught the exact same perspective about Christ found in the Quran. The only way Muslims can defend this is by half quoting the Bible, half quoting scholars, and picking and choosing aspects of sects as they see fit.
Once again..you missed the point. It would laughable to suggest a Christian tradition that wasn't started by scripture, but used it's traditional writing to "SERVE" the tradition, was "alteretd" and dismissed a previous existing "tradition". islam, on the other hand, begins and ends with the words of mohammed..who most CERTAINLY said more than what was eventually written, and even what we have is full of contradictions.
While Christinaity has a tradition od witnesses..islam takes the word of a man claiming "revelation", who by his own accounts; took the word of God to be demon possession(the demon "jinn"), was suicidal(tried to jump to his death, and was "saved" by an angel), gave himslef special privleges, and exclusions. Extra wifes and concubines(misstresses), married his adopted son's wife, after making him divorce her, etc. Just a taset of islams contradictions that served a military religion.
This is not to mention the scientific blunders(thunder and lightning are "angels", cokcs crowing meansd it saw an "angel", or cow's "mooing" means it saw the "devil"), their are historical blunders in the koran; as well as homosexual refernces. "Youths with perpetual "freshness" as a "reward" for muslim men. While mohammed said, "their is no compulsion in religion", he ALSO said, "I will cast terror in the hearts of infidels. Strike off their heads". Hmm..that's rather "compulsory".
"There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind." 2 Samuel 22:9-11
Is the bible saying here that God was like a dragon that is riding baby girl angels?!
LOL..your imagination has gotten the best of you..LOL. Proverbs stated:"What is his name, and what is his Son's name"?. What does your "imagination" think of that?!!..LOLOL.
Song of Solomon 8:10 "Dear brothers, I'm a walled-in virgin still, but my breasts are full— And when my lover sees me, he knows he'll soon be satisfied."
"How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince's daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman's hands. Your navel (VAGINA) is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine ...." The NIV Bible, Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9)
You trully are a moron..LOL. A "navel" is a "belly button" you idiot..LOLOL. Where does "God" NEED to state man's desire for women; and secondly; the Old Testament is a chronilce of the Jewish people. You seem to not undetstand the difference between poetic language/history, and Godly intent. The same Old Testament gave the world the 10 commnadments. Such as "thou shall not murder", and "thou shall not commit adultery".
The word of God should always have a purpose. wut's the puprose or biblical lesson learned from knowing these erotic details?
What's the biblical lesson from learning that Lot was drunk and slept with his daughters yet God saved them and there was no punishment? (GENESIS 19:33-35 )
What's the lesson from knowing that Noah , a man trusted by God to build a huge ship and save the believers, was a drunkard?! Can God trust a drunkard with that kind of responsibility?!
you just can't justify any of the violence or absurdities in the bible so wut u do is quickly give irrational comments on them with lots of explanation marks and "LOL" and then move over to your favourite subject where u through tons of insults and accusations on the prophet Muhammad(PBUH)..making it hard for some to follow up with all these red herrings. This shows immaturity and dishonesty. Quran spoke of humble good christians and definitely u're not one of them.
What frustrates you is the COMPLETE opposite..LOL. The "violence" in the Bible is not a "Godly" persute; unlike islam..it's the history of the Jewish people and their relationship. The same Bible you criticize, gave us the 10 commandments(thou shall not murder, thou shall not commit adultry, thou shall not covet thy nighbours wife, etc.) If the Bible "promoted" what you are suggeting; we'd have two different books..LOLOL.
Now that we have displayed your ignorance about Christianity..on to islam; and MY comments and questions:)))). First; how do you justify polygamy, concubines, and sex with "women whom the right hand possesses" as the behaviour and message of the "messenger" of "God"?. Or how about how he made special privleges for himself, then when challneged to perform just ONR miracle in the koran; HE COULDN'T?!!!!...
How about how moahmmed said, "I will strike terror in the infidel; strike off their heads; the very tips of their fingers"?. Or how he said, "do not take Jews and Christians as friends"?. Or how the koran was first written without vowels or diacritical dots, which affect the meaning of the word?. How about how in the 8th-9th century it was changed by muslims "scholars"; giving the koran the meaning" THEY thought was correct(and more violent)?!!!!.
(cont'd) you really don't undertsand anything about islam or about arabic language!!
Arabic language in general had no vowels at that time. Back in the Middle East 1400 years ago, the Quraishi dialect was not the only one used among Arabs. There existed 6 other dialects along with it but it was the most popular and most accurate dialect. The Arabic dialects had problems with each others, and that's why standardizing the Noble Quran with its original Quraishi dialect was essential
Apparently YOU have quite a bit of "trouble" with islam and Arabic..LOL. The koran can read 7 different way; and with 2 variants. That means it can be read 14 way. The early koranic writings wre written without vowels or diacritical dots; which effects the meaning of the words. In the 8th-9th century, muslim "scholars" wrote down what THEY saw as the "correct" meaning. Their is no evidence of the koran in the 1st century after mohammed's death. Go read up on it, MORON..LOL.
(cont'd) An example, some Arabs used to have a dialect which originated from Yemen, where they would add "an" at the end of a noun - e.g. "Taliban" is the same as the Arabic word "Talib" which means "Student". The Quraishi dialect is the most popular dialect that uses the arabic words without altering their sound, and is today the dialect used among Arabs who speak Proper Arabic. So the problem was with the arabic language not with Quran.
WHERE ARE THE ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS?!!!!. "Many scholars agree that while some of transcriptions of mohammed's words may have benne written in a haphazard(quick and inaccurate) manner; the koran had primariliy been transmitted orally(which most of those people were killed in the battle of yemana); little was actually written down". "When the source of revelation died(mohammed), muslims had no one to turn to when disputes occured over what mohammed preached"..enotes.
How do you follow a "prophet" who was epileptic since childhood, married a 9 year old(among his 12 offical wives; COUNTLESS concubines), made speicla privleges for himself, couldn't perform ONE miracle, thought the voice of God meant he was crazy; tried to jump off a mountain in a suicidal rage; had 2 of the most famous Arab poets killed for criticizing his violence(including her chlidren, and raping her)?!!!!
As for ur bible, it is corrupted according to Moses. Deuteronomy 31:29"For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn from the way I have commanded you. In days to come, disaster will fall upon you because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD and provoke him to anger by what your hands have made."
Jeremiah 8:8 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?
Your desperation and stupidity never stop amazing me..LOL. Moses is "quoted" in the book of "corrupted scripture"?!!!!LOL. Do you know how stupid you sound?!!!!!LOL. First of all; he never said ANYTHING of "corrupted scripture"..LOL.
Jeremiah and Moses followed the same "Torah"(Old Testament) that gave the 10 commandments; and follows the way of Moses. You can't seem to do more than come up with your OWN version of Biblical intent and content..LOLOL. Furthermore; your dumb enough to suggest a meaning of scripture in the SAME book that 'INCLUDEDS" it; and then you quote from of the SAME scripture you call "corrupt"!!!!LOL. Do you NOW see why your a MORON?..LOLOL.:((((
How do you follow a "prophet" who said.."their is no compulsion in religion", then said, "I will strike terror in the infidel; strike of their heads; the very tips of their fingers". Jesus said, "love your enemy", "feed the hungry", "cloth the naked", "serve the servants", "the Father and Son are one", "no one knows the father but hte Son". Proverbs says:"What is thoust name who made the winds and seas; and what is his Son's name; that thoust can't tell?".
How about mohammed thniking he was going crazy, or possesses by the Arab demon jinn; when he first heard the "word" of "God"?. How about how he was suicidal; and tried to jump off a mountain?. How about he was epileptic since childhood?. Surley, as a muslim, you mus know these historical facts, right?!!!!. As you seen, the absurdity in this debate is your ignorance of theology and reasoning, along with your inferiority coplex, unless you answer MY questions; this debate's OVER
U keep showing more ignorance. Jinn are no demons. There are good jinn and bad jinn. Any man would get frightened even when an angel appears to him for the first time. Mary was also scared when Angel Gabriel appeared to her. it's really a silly argument.
"do not take jews and christians friends" this is not a pr
Many verses have been taken out of niv bible as these verses do not exist in early ancient manuscripts such verse is acts:8.37. so if there is curruption now how can we trust that early books have not been currupted which means they can never be sure destroying credibility. Point 2: why didnt the holy spirit correct this 100's or 1000's years ago yet just in modern age when new older manuscripts are discovered the bible is being corrected? This proves christians dont have the holy spirit
pamuk7 1 month ago
@pamuk7 Because it's been proven that the manuscripts we have today teach the same gospel as what was written in the first century. The burden of proof is on the Muslims to prove otherwise.
SoldierOfChrist110 2 weeks ago
@SoldierOfChrist110 are you alright mate? The manuscripts what we have were written MUCH after Jesus death. A lot of difference. I think you need to watch a debate of Shabir Ally vs Dr. Buzzard. One worthy Christian whom i wanna listen. The gospel that Jesus preached.
flexpape 2 weeks ago
@flexpape The quran has been changed, the original portions which were recited during the time of muhammad were burned during the reign of Othmans caliphate, we can use the same arguement with your holy book that you use with the gospel. you obviously did not watch Dr Whites rebuttal. selective hearing eh?!
gespb32 2 weeks ago
@gespb32 we muslim memories the qur'an every single letter in qur'an
peacebewithyou6789 1 week ago
@gespb32 Do you mean Uthmans or Othamans?
Lizzio1980 1 week ago
All religion needs to be made illegal! Nothing good for humanity has ever resulted from this fairy tale stories! If you want to keep religion than you must be willing to say it is more fiction than actual reality!
thecanadianstoner1 2 months ago
@thecanadianstoner1 More people have died at the hands of secular atheism in the past 100 years than have died from relegion in the past 1000 years added up altogether! Stalin ring a bell, Pol Pot, Chairman Meo , Hitler ?
MrMaxTruth 2 weeks ago
@Min90Ra yh
FUS10N1 2 months ago
This man is not debating or doing a dialogue but reading a prepared text. but reading a prepared text
mohdjamlimustafa 3 months ago
"Is Bible Inspired Word Of God?" This is the topic right? Whats up with James White then?
Lindemann04109 3 months ago
funny how the musilms have to go to the bilbe to correct things lol
Sentinel4261 4 months ago
I don't get Dr. white's attack. If the atheist critics are wrong in their attacks then show where their arguments are wrong. By his standard he can only use christian scholars to talk about the bible and only Muslim scholars to speak about the Quran, how can anyone learn anything with this methodology?
InfiniteLightRC 4 months ago
Shabir Ally came and talked boldly from memory.. this man spent 20 mins reading...... and could not support if the NT was inspired by God but rather attack the Qur'an///
SuperMaryam16 5 months ago
If Jesus is God like some of the people in this video claim, then when Jesus
died on the cross and was in the
grave for 3 days (like the Gospels claim) then that must have meant that God was dead for 3 days. Think about the blasphemy with this, yet these people have no idea what they are thinking. God has no co occupants in his throne, that would equate to Polytheism!!
apical5view1 6 months ago
I wish Deedat or Naik debated with this idiot then he will be another Christan scholar on the successful hit list.
ImKoolWithThis 6 months ago
Does anyone have seen any debate between Muslim and Christian where we could see the Christian win. .?
believe me, It doesn't exist.
the amazing thing is that most of Muslims debaters are not native Muslims, and they have less knowledge about islam comparing with Arabs Muslims, but they have the power of truth with them
znatim 6 months ago
world needs more shabirs may God bless him
skenderboci 6 months ago
what a lovely debate
Conspiracyknowledge 7 months ago
I'm a christian and regardless of the behavior of the people on this site, I would like say that i was very happy to see the professional behavior displayed by both James White and Shabbir Ally. Very few times have I seen a debate where both opponents seem to enjoy the company of each other. Hope all debates would be like that.
jonjon1457 7 months ago 4
@jonjon1457 I have watched many Christian Muslim debates and of them all, my favorite Muslim debater (I am not Muslim) is Shabir Ally. He is such a gentlemen and a respectable person. He does not get angry when he is challenged on what he believes nor does he become belligerent at his opponent. I do not accept his assertion that Islam is the true path to God. I see Islam as a replacement theology.
tonysfsd 2 months ago
i thought james white was smart scholar of christian,seems like he havnt seen other debates which all his eligation on Quran and prophet Mohmmad has been answerd in many many debates so in shabir ally so in dr zakir naik so in Ahmed deedat so in jamal badawi debates with all the debaters of christan yet hes asking a question? i thought this debate is about the new testament only instead clearing out shabir Ally points. he points on Quran and Mohmmad. here it puts me in doubt dat if knows bible.
786islamicwarrior 7 months ago
@shieldsff you mean the way that says that vegetation came before the sun? That God's day is 1000 years, so the vegetation would've died? That even if it was 24 hours, it wouldn't make sense since hours were created based on the sun, created after vegetation. As a christian, you believe a man in the middle of the desert "fabricated" the embryonic stages, the movement of the earth, sun and moon, mountains and their role in geology, and much more I can't fit in this small-as-crap comment box.
wordyeaux 7 months ago
Wow James white makes a mistake? does that means everything else he says is false and he lost the debate?
Rhantismos23 7 months ago in playlist God 11
@Rhantismos23 No, it just means you have to take it with a pinch of salt when ever he tell you something.
Nazam44 7 months ago 5
I have watched majority of Whites Debates this is the only time i can remember when he made a mistake so i have to disagree if a person makes one mistake that does not mean you need to be skeptical
Rhantismos23 7 months ago
@Rhantismos23 His actually made a lot mistakes, especially when it comes to his believes in Jesus and in the Bible and Islam.
Nazam44 7 months ago 5
@Nazam44 can you please show me the mistakes he has made about jesus and the bible?
Rhantismos23 7 months ago
@Nazam44 For example he assumes that the Bible is inerrant and that the narration in the Gospels are exactly the way it actually happen. He believes that Jesus and Paul both believe in the Trinity and he assumes that the writers of the Bible are exactly the say they are. You can go to the links provided for more detail discussion.
Nazam44 7 months ago
@Nazam44 where is the mistake there? you have to put in context (muslims don't know what that is) James White is sharing his knowledge about Chrisitanity, of course as you did if believe the kuran is inerrant word of God then you'll say that James White made a mistake, in the same stand Christians will say Shabbir Ally is wrong for even consider the kuran as inerrant so put it in CONTEXT and you'll learn
gussyvallejos 1 month ago
@Nazam44 In our present time their are Christian theologians who can write more accurate document than the BIBLE...
julio14335 1 month ago
@Nazam44 Everyone makes mistakes, so I guess we take it with a pinch of salt when ANYONE tells us something.
Hey, wait, that's what debates are for!
Rhology 4 weeks ago
Brother look at the video evidence i sent you in your Inbox message.
SAMAND33 7 months ago
Subhan Allah. 1:15:05 This is such a pathetic statement that mark was in rush and didn't have enough time to put together all information...you are kidding man. The Book called Aqeeda tul Wastia written by Imam Ibn Taimiah raheem ullah alayehe about 700 years ago just between Asr and Salat ul Isha meaning in about 4 hours approximately and this book has been explained further by no. of scholars came after him and no mistake and beautiful summarized book on Aqeedah.
khaab79ka 7 months ago
These kinds of debates were great for understanding. Unfortunately the times have changed
TheMrpalid 7 months ago
SHABIR ALLY !
MrBubbiG 8 months ago
i now hate the word consistency :(
drfflame 8 months ago 2
shabir ally is very good pointed out the truth
nesrum 8 months ago
Who won?
h2dude69 8 months ago
A final point I would raise is that the central truth of the original prophets was NOT submission anywhere or that there is a unitary god (for example, both baal & molech were claimed as [names] for god). The central truth is that there is One God and only One True & Living God. It is this God we are commanded to worship. Also, Muhamm. claims that he received his revelations from an angelic being. Can any examples be offered of earlier prophets who received written revelations from angels
shieldsff 9 months ago
@shieldsff I dont get your question. Please explain your point.
pantherlake2002 8 months ago in playlist muslims scholars
@pantherlake2002 - I am just saying that I don' think that the main teachings of the original scriptures anywhere is that one must 'submit' to God. Jesus accepted the OT (and NEVER said that the Hebrew scriptures came from an angel or that His own words came from an angel ) but Islams claims that both were 'corrupted'- but how can that be if all the scriptures teach God is one. Again, if allah did not protect truth of the originals how can someone be 100% sure that the truth of the Qu'ran
shieldsff 8 months ago
@shieldsff I feel your just picking and choosing whatever Bible verse suit you best but you ignore other verses. With this approach you can make the Bible say anything that you want to say. And you should not impose your criteria upon others who don't accept your criteria. Otherwise you are making a strawman point.
Nazam44 8 months ago
@Nazam44 - also this is no strawman point- I am merely seeking a honest, consistent response. thanks
shieldsff 8 months ago
@shieldsff You make the assumption that Muslims believe in every part of the Bible to be true and you quoted to them as fact but Muslims don't accept all of the Bible but only those parts that agree with the Quran.
Nazam44 8 months ago
am I, .?!? sorry, my friend, but I do no such thing. The questions I have put forth here are based completely on what muslims I have spoken with have told me are the truth & requirements of Islam, my own faith (christianity) and the original scriptures. I have been told that (one of ) the main teachings of Islam & the Bible is 'submission' - ok then, where does it, in fact, assert or teach that ? We are told an angel from the BIble gave the Koran to Muhammad - what's the proof ?
shieldsff 8 months ago
@Nazam44 - Do you think so ?!? I don't think that I do that. It is clear that islam rejects many teachings in the Bible; that is not in dispute here. The question (AGAIN) is whether muslims have a valid basis for accepting the koran as valid and for rejecting the enitire truth of the Bible. This is the flaw of your arguments: it is contradictory to say you will accept what you like and reject what you did not like/understand. Jesus said he is THE way and THE truth. Any other way is a dececption
shieldsff 8 months ago
@shieldsff As the other brother already said, we accept anything from the bible that agrees with the quran and reject anything that contradicts it.
ukmale999 7 months ago
Is the John of "The Gospel of John" and "John the Baptist" same?
h2dude69 9 months ago
@h2dude69
No. John the Baptist was executed before tradition holds these texts were written.
John is one of the Disciples. However, the "Gospel of John" is anonymous, as the other 3 Gospels and many of the books in the New Testament. It was attributed to John by Church fathers a few hundred years after it was written.
Arabman666 9 months ago
who did god sacrifice/kill? did he kill his son (trinity) or did he kill himself (monothism)? nobody has an answer
prototype00000 10 months ago
@prototype00000
what a good question bro, father son and holy ghost are one and one died how many left ???? no christian have the ans
MrSuperhaq 9 months ago
@MrSuperhaq After creating this amazing universe, havens and earth, God became a man and confusingly at the same time also a son of himself, and then God sacrificed his son to save the world, but if this was true then this makes God an imperfect God, because if God killed himself then who is running the universe, and if he really killed his son then still again the job wasn't done right, because every new born baby is born in sin. God doesn't need to do these kind of things, only humans do
redflw 9 months ago
@Nazam44
I assume that you are a Muslim given your information on the video. I would like to thank you for posting the entire debate and not editing it to tailor to your presuppositions. As a Christian I am constantly finding videos full of misrepresentions.
neostunna 10 months ago 3
Honestly White had no points,he insisted that Jesus is God or trinity issue in each of his statement,instead of sticking to the point,he is not a great speaker,he explains as if he is reading the news paper,while his opponent use his own brain and mentioned the chapters Shabir is fantastic,but I dont like this type of discussion too many talks few proof
nuramoboy 11 months ago
god is only an emotional attitude , this hs bn a waste of time
loly1969 11 months ago
NO christian kwnow the Bible .
sabaidee9 11 months ago
Wow, great debate! James and Shabir did a great job! James provided very logical and reasonable defense. Praise the Lord!
SupremeHero777 11 months ago
lol, James White wasted 20 mins talking about consistency and Quran when he should have been stating evidences/reasons on why the Bible is the inspired Word of God. That was a poor performance. Shabir Ally caught that and pointed it out.
loonietoonie0123 1 year ago 37
@loonietoonie0123 you got it right
medsheikh2 1 year ago
@loonietoonie0123 wasn;t Ally's starting argument concerning consistencies? explaining the consistencies was answering with reason and evidence.
cisco19 8 months ago
@loonietoonie0123
I agree with you comments.
Curiousquest2 7 months ago
James White gave a lot of strong points in his first rebuttal.He laid the evidences for the N.T as they are.Very informative.On the other hand,Ally failed poorly to addressed the very standard he used for the Bible and not for the Quran.Mr.White gave a clear and historical scenario against Mr.Ally's arguments.This debate is highly academic by two brilliant debaters.Ally never denied the fact that there were no way to detect the original word rendered for the Quran before Uthman in 2nd to 3rd cen
forthetruth101 1 year ago
Mr. White says Muslim scholars lack consistency. If you see and analyze this debate in detail you'll realize that Mr White is a lot more inconsistent in his arguments than Shabir. And about the verse in the bible in which Prophet Jesus (peace and blessings of Allah be on to him) was addressed as Lord, is vague. Lord doesn't necessarily refer to God. There is no unambiguous statement in the complete bible where Jesus Christ tells his people that he is God or to Worship him.
Junaidroshan1 1 year ago 18
@Junaidroshan1
The word used is Kudios, in the Greek Septuagint, which is what the authors of the New Testament used, was only used for YHVH....which is why Shabir conceded the point...every Greek speaking Christian listening or reading the text would understand clearly that it gives Christ deity
Romans9Apologetics 1 year ago
@Romans9Apologetics The term kyrios, which means lord, is a specific title which can refer to an ordinary human being (See;1 Peter 3:6) and can also refer to God. So it is ambiguous.
Nazam44 1 year ago
@Romans9Apologetics
Yes, but the word doesn't have one meaning even if it was used for YHVH. What I'm interested is, a non-ambiguous verse in which Prophet Jesus (Peace and blessings of Allah swt be on to him) said he is God!
Junaidroshan1 1 year ago
@Junaidroshan1
1The word in the Greek Old Testament is only used for YHVH. It was used to replace in many areas Adonai.
2 This Ahmed Deedat demand is mute. Because even if the statement exists, you would say it is corrupted. I mean I am already well aware of the picking and choosing of verses in the Bible, and the robbing of context of other verses. Things you and I hate for people to do to the Quran, yet you don't care for them to do to the Bible.
Romans9Apologetics 10 months ago
@Junaidroshan1
I believe thast Jesus Christ was God in the flesh and that Islam is the beast and Antichrist. I can give you hard, rock solid evidence for this.
SoldierOfChrist110 1 year ago
there are so many place jesus equates himself with god. In john chp 10 he says "i and the father are one". In matthew chp 28 he states "i have been given all authority on heaven and on earth". In luke chp 6 he states "the son of man has been given authority on earth to forgive sins". Even in the old testament in the book of Isaiah it states in chp 9 it states "behold, a child in born, and he will be called wonderful cousellor, everlasting god, prince of peace". thats proof enough
jamaicanification 1 year ago
Interesting debate. It does not change the fact that the NT is rooted in the fact that salvation is based and concluded in worshiping Jesus as God, Saviour and Creator. Since when did worship shift from God to Jesus? It only seems valid if Jesus is God the Father.
Is he? Did he say he was?
obviouslyso 1 year ago
@obviouslyso No. Jesus never claimed to be God the Father. No Christian has ever believed that either. Jesus is God, but NOT God the Father. He is God the Son, distinct from the Father. God manifests His ONE Being in three personally distinct ways, namely as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Son of God - God in flesh. Yes he claimed to be God - NOT the Father, but indeed God. Please message me if you would like to discuss this.
810suited 1 year ago
Christians Have no Clear Base and Each and Every Debate they take they fail to convence Audience But still they believe Bible is Pure .. How Pathetic
mrnawanshehr 1 year ago
wow Nakdimon316 thnks he's smart...apparently he doesnt do his homework very well..ppl there is a difference between a verse and a hadith...those claimed "verses" were corrected by the prophet they were meant as hadiths not qura'nic verses
kandousha 1 year ago
James , the fact is that you are way too clueless about the Quran , I mean you dont know even the basics. On the other hand Shabir Ally not only knows alot about Quran but knows alot more about bible that you do. Just dont come up with written , nonacademic type of commoners debate materials. Not only that, you are trying to cool things a little too much. You dont hide any thing .. you just lie openly. You totally unimpressed me. Specially on your "consistency" non sense.
rizwanahmed11 1 year ago
James , the fact is that you are way too clueless about the Quran , I mean you dont know even the basics. On the other hand Shabir Ally not only knows alot about Quran but knows alot more about bible that you do. Just dont come up with written , nonacademic type of commoners debate materials. Not only that, you are trying to cool things a little too much. You dont hide any thing .. you just lie openly. Oh by the way you came here for debate , not for mediation. You totally unimpressed me.
rizwanahmed11 1 year ago
James , the fact is that you are way too clueless about the Quran , I mean you dont know even the basics. On the other hand Shabir Ally not only knows alot about Quran but knows alot more about bible that you do. Just dont come up with written , nonacademic type of commoners debate materials. Not only that, you are trying to cool things a little too much. You dont hide any thing .. you just lie openly. Oh by the way you came here for debate , not for mediation. You unimpressed me.
rizwanahmed11 1 year ago
James , the fact is that you are way too clueless about the Quran , I mean you dont know even the basics. On the other hand Shabir Ally not only knows alot about Quran but knows alot more about bible that you do. Just dont come up with written , nonacademic type of commoners debate materials.
rizwanahmed11 1 year ago
James , the fact is that you are way too clueless about the Quran , I mean you dont know even the basics. On the other hand Shabir Ally not only knows alot about Quran but knows alot more about baible that you do. Just dont come up with written , nonacademic type of commoners debate materials.
rizwanahmed11 1 year ago
its good 2 see a muslim and a christain having a honest discusstion at the end of the dabate. refreshing
belong2christ1 1 year ago
its interesting to listen to the religious debate ..I wonder though who has the lock on truth ..they cant both be right ..it may be possible that neither is right ..hmmm ..does it seem strange to anyone else that this great god the christians and muslims and jews claim to be associated with only seems to be interested in the small group of people in the middle east ..probably the most insane area of the planet ...isnt it more likely that all these beliefs were just plagerisms of nothingness hmm
laserwolf130 1 year ago
@laserwolf130, The truth is in the prophecies. Qur'an has no prophecies, but The Bible does- from the Beginning (Genesis) to the end (Revelation). I've sent this to several Muslims and posted them as mush as I could on their sites before my comments stop appearing , and NONE has debunked this video:
"Jesus Christ is Lord - Spirit of Prophecy"
watch?v=Ezy0cfi4ub8
Plus, there are the historical documents outside the Bible but that would be another video.
selious04 1 year ago
@selious04 if u say bible has prophecies then all of the prophecies should be fulfilled if there is single prophecy which is worng then it cannot be the word of god here are some unfulfilled prophecies Genesis, Chapter No. 4, Verse No. 12, it says… ‘God told Cain: you will never be able to settle you will be a wanderer.’ Few Verses later on Genesis, Chapter No.4, Verse No.17, says…‘Cain built up a city’ – unfulfilled prophecy.
UltimateVideoKing 1 year ago
@selious04
lol islam does have prophecies, and muslims dont deny the bible. we just admit it's been changed like even the pastor showed here
muslim2theend 1 year ago
Very good and informative debate.
Both sides did a good job.
Shabir was set up in the Q&A session! LOL!
They started asking about Quran instead of keeping it on topic, namely, the bible.
Thedon1981 1 year ago
white is very correct. If you start from a presupposition that something is incorrect your inevitably gonna find errors from your own perspective. And it is also true that the quran as it is written now it the the uthmanian version of it. The fact is that there were many varying interpretations of it after muhammad died because although it was written in recitations, it was not actually compiled into a book
jamaicanification 1 year ago
@jamaicanification
if you take quran 1400 years ago in the muzium and compare it with quran today,you'll find no different,
how about the bible?
wait,there is not even the original of it,WTF!!!!!-......-
and worse of all it been changed and corrupted!!WTF!!!!
people still refer it as word of god?!!!-.........-lame
Ashraff1971 1 year ago 2
@Ashraff1971 actually if i took the quran when it was recitied by muhammad and compare it to now there is a difference. And the difference is the fact that 13 years after muhammad died, during the reign of the caliph Uthman, their were varying distortions of the quran, and Uthman gathered them up, had them all burned and then issue the "zayd codex"(after muhammad's secretary) as the standard version, without even knowing if zayds copy is the right one.
jamaicanification 1 year ago
@jamaicanification
well the truth is,it isnt.
it is the original book,no different,infact you can give me example if you want,but you cant.
Ashraff1971 1 year ago
@Ashraff1971 Ok then let me give you a few examples about changes in the Quran: The verse of suckling was in the Quran when Muammad lived according to Aisha (Sahih Muslim Book 8, Number 3421), where is it now? The verse of Stoning was in th Quran when Muhammad lived according to Umar (Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816) where is it now? Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 468 says your Quran used to read "by the creature" but now it reads " by the creator", a BIG difference. Now what?
Nakdimon316 1 year ago
@Nakdimon316 wow what reliable sources you used. they are pathetic and weak nothing more to say to you. Next Biggot please
szuhbi 1 year ago
@szuhbi
they arn't weak, they are sahih.
Htowngurl123 1 year ago
shabbir is a fantastic speaker...
navos2003 1 year ago 40
@navos2003 yes i agree.I am a Christian but i definitely appreciate his presentation.It was very clear and he shows alot of humility.Very smart as well.James white is might be too smart for me though lol
ctsfinestjon 10 months ago
Is JAMES white running & reading essay to be copied by a bunch of students,, it suppose to be a dialogue or debate ,,not a pre -written 20 mnts essay ,,atleast SHABBIR ALLY spoke without a pre -written essay writings ,,cos i think he has the knowledge to be around a debate ,,,well done ALLY
d4panther 1 year ago 2
White did not defend the Bible at all in this debate.
Trinitarian Christianity is not a Monotheistic religion by its very definition.
The fact White agrees that verses have been added to the Bible proves it fallability.
The Bible contains revelation but also mans falsehood. Yet even the revelation it contains is not directly from Jesus as he was not involved in its creation (the Bible).
The Quran was not inspired, it was revealed.
Saracen187 1 year ago
@Saracen187 Trinitarian theology is monotheistic.
elderaps 1 year ago
@Saracen187 Is JAMES white running & reading essay to be copied by a bunch of students,, it suppose to be a dialogue or debate ,,not a pre -written 20 mnts essay ,,atleast SHABBIR ALLY spoke without a pre -written essay writings ,,cos i think he has the knowledge to be around a debate ,,,well done ALLY
d4panther 1 year ago
@Saracen187 Is JAMES white running & reading essay to be copied by a bunch of students,, it suppose to be a dialogue or debate ,,not a pre -written 20 mnts essay ,,atleast SHABBIR ALLY spoke without a pre -written essay writings ,,cos i think he has the knowledge to be around a debate ,,,well done ALLY
d4panther 1 year ago
@Saracen187
White did not defend the Bible at all in this debate.
That's correct the bible does not need defense or anything by anyone else, be it James White or criticm favourable or unfavourable from ISLAM preachers, GOD did it right the first time, something you and your fellow muslim in the Video refuse to accept . 2 Choices either you accept Christ as the Son of God or you don't., these debates are pretty useless. There is more then enough proof in the NT, Jesus is the SOG
MTLBOBIRAS 1 year ago
@TeraPeoPunjabi, If the arguments are "weak" <------------SUBJECTIVE, then make a website and article debunking NT manuscript reliablity, I'll be the first to visit.
LogosTheos 1 year ago
NT is equal to HADITH not Qur'an, the fact that they are both collections of the sayings and life of individuals around 300 year after.
Jesus (pbh) has never asked his followers to write down anything, while Muhammad(pbh) did hence Qur'an. It has ONE SINGLE SOURCE and wholesome.
malinehydara 1 year ago
@malinehydara WRONG, NT does not even come close to Hadith as the science and methodology of hadith is far superior to NT collection. This is a subject by itself.. if Christian scholars studied hadith "properly" they won't find any perceived contradiction nor raise any issue during their debates.
xma4470 3 months ago
Why are we comparing the NT to the Qur'an, which is the actual inspiration from the Lord Most High, through one and only ONE source...?
While the NT is just as the HADITH are, being a book containing an accounts from various sources about the life and saying of Prophets...!
They were both compiled more or less 300 years after each MESSENGER(pbthem)
malinehydara 1 year ago
Why are they comparing the NT to Qur'an which is the inspired word of the All-Mighty Creator...!
The NT is an account of HERE-SAYS of people through out a period of time about the saying and actions of Jesus(pbh)... and this is similar to the Hadith.
Incidentally they were both collected almost the same length of time after the disappearance of the respective Prophets.
malinehydara 1 year ago
i truly believe this was a master class by j white. shabir aly just dont get it
ThePtno1 1 year ago
james white is just on another level. shabir aly just dont get it
ThePtno1 1 year ago
The guy introducing it needs to get off the stage ASAP, a whole five minutes of this embarrassment!
whyteay 1 year ago
@whyteay
I was thinking the same thing.
HaligonianType1 1 year ago
james white goes off the topic far too much, explains textual variant that one writer of the NT was in a bit of a hurry or didnt have enough paper. james white uses far too much grease to smooth out his arguments
takewhole 1 year ago
@takewhole and he never seems to understand the fact that the original Injeel was not in GREEK!!! but yet he still acts like the "oldest" source is the "original" source
tryingtobegood1 1 year ago
@takewhole yes, he says that he feels comment boxes almost never get anywhere. It's his choice, he allows informed responses at the debates anyway!
whyteay 1 year ago
Why can you not leave comments on James Whites videos on youtube, its so frustrating, he likes to give his spiel on camera but does not allow a response or discussion on what he has said, maybe he likes it that way.
takewhole 1 year ago
@midleground how you can choose a religion, but you can't choose your race
edwardjr1836 1 year ago
@midleground
Muslims do not say that u've to be muslim(in the sense of praying 5 times a day, fasting ramadan, etc.) to go to heaven. rather you'd have to be a muslim in the sense of submission to God and making no partners with him in ordr to go to heaven. I guess it's fair that God will only allow u to enter his heaven if u believe in Him.
If you see the diff you'd see that christianity and Judaism are named after persons but islam is not named Muhammadiasm. Islam means submission to God.
alcapon2 1 year ago
Misquoting Jesus is one of the books one can read. They give way to many different accounts in the gospels of situations of Jesus.
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
The NT is not the inspired word of God. God wouldn't cause the writers to write nothing more then fallacy after misapplication.
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
Jame Whites opening statement and Rebuttal I did not find him on the subject??
where was he??
Not on the Subject
3dsstudio 1 year ago
@candiceevans1 the quran is a book that is primarily committed to memory, even now if ALL the copies of the quran was burned i could within a few hours have at least 200 people in my small town recite the quran from start to finish and give you an accurate rendition of the quran. If the quran had been tampered with at any stage it would stick out like a sore thumb and even so, people didnt go off the written record, they MEMORISED the quran so that it is impossible to lose or burn it
takewhole 1 year ago
James white is taking superfluous tosh, cant stick to the main arguments, unable to form a coherent argument, just a long boring speaker....
takewhole 1 year ago
Show me a book written by 44 authors who never saw each other nor saw each others writings but still predicted the same future event thousands of years before by each adding a little prophecy which was fulfilled in history. It has never happened but one time :in the bible. David predicted that JESUS would be pierced in his hands and feet 1000 years before JESUS came. Isaiah predicted the messiah would be born of a virgin 700 years before JESUS came into our world. THAT is proof
lacatuscovalschi 1 year ago
@lacatuscovalschi yes but the four authors give different account of each event.watch the debate.
saqib9876 1 year ago
Christians must think for a moment all this debates that are being won by Muslims debating Christians. God is telling the Christians something lol and still they arrogantly close their eyes.
mbksold 1 year ago
" He said to them, " This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms. "
" Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, " This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day. "
- Luke 24:44-46
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@candiceevans1 you cant burn someone memory.the quran was memorized by d companions of the propehet so it does matter if you destroy writen copies of the quran.
saqib9876 1 year ago
Lakers against Phenix funny
ObadiyahBlack 1 year ago
from the first words Shabir was very direct without any mistake opening the case .. the other should represent the same points but instead he examen the Islamic faith instead of responding to the biblical contradiction from a biblical point of view
philosopher28 1 year ago
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
mygodiselshaddai 1 year ago
you're all so completely biased.
zakyzeek 1 year ago
Its not that Christians loose in a debate-its usually a personality battle.
theeventsinger 1 year ago
why does christians have to loose every single debate ?
016karma 1 year ago
@016karma
Because , as soon as the Christian Scholars get the Grip on the Bible and its words , SOME BODY , Pull the Rug from under them . by Changing the Bible.
You can Get the Proof from this site .
dial-the-truth ministries
(( Bible Version Comparison ))
irooni100 1 year ago
praise god for james white. He presents the facts as they are. Ally twists them to paint a pretty but false picture
ThePtno1 1 year ago
'The Bible is inspired by God therefore it is the truth". If God is also the inspiration for the Universe and all that it entails then God would also be responsible for the inspiration for the doctrine of every other religion(including satanism). Which is the 'true' one that we should follow? Should we pretend to know the will of God? I try to never pretend to know Truth.
I don't follow doctrines. I read and appreciate them for what they are. Beautiful works of literature.
Clarkticus 1 year ago
SuperJoseph1987, it's defense mechanism that I smell in you..
pagaqtin 2 years ago
@pagaqtin Joseph got owned.
oombuddah 1 year ago
And the statements made by a few scholars to not negate the vast majority of scholars who are much more qualified
SuperJoseph1987 2 years ago
I would like to add that there is no evidence whatsoever of any sect that predates the New Testament that believed Christ was a mortal Prophet who did not die on the cross...
It is pointless to carry on in debates where the only evidence by the other side is twisting the words from a document written by someone stating that a man has died.
It would be like me taking a document about Abraham Lincoln and saying that he did not die because people survive gun shot wounds.
SuperJoseph1987 2 years ago
The A.Lincoln analogy dosn't work because being shot by a gun and being hung on a cross are two different things. Historically people have been on the cross for a couple of day and still remain alive, since crucifixtion pierced no vital body organ. Had their been shot at the head that would have been entirely different matter,
Nazam44 2 years ago
@Nazam44
Never there was no one in the first century claiming that Christ did not die on the cross. The only heretical sect that claimed he did not were those who claimed he was not flesh and blood and was completely God.
There is no evidence whatsoever of a sect of Christians who taught the exact same perspective about Christ found in the Quran. The only way Muslims can defend this is by half quoting the Bible, half quoting scholars, and picking and choosing aspects of sects as they see fit.
PerspectiveReformed 1 year ago
@Nazam44..1
Once again..you missed the point. It would laughable to suggest a Christian tradition that wasn't started by scripture, but used it's traditional writing to "SERVE" the tradition, was "alteretd" and dismissed a previous existing "tradition". islam, on the other hand, begins and ends with the words of mohammed..who most CERTAINLY said more than what was eventually written, and even what we have is full of contradictions.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Nazam44..2
While Christinaity has a tradition od witnesses..islam takes the word of a man claiming "revelation", who by his own accounts; took the word of God to be demon possession(the demon "jinn"), was suicidal(tried to jump to his death, and was "saved" by an angel), gave himslef special privleges, and exclusions. Extra wifes and concubines(misstresses), married his adopted son's wife, after making him divorce her, etc. Just a taset of islams contradictions that served a military religion.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Nazam44..3
This is not to mention the scientific blunders(thunder and lightning are "angels", cokcs crowing meansd it saw an "angel", or cow's "mooing" means it saw the "devil"), their are historical blunders in the koran; as well as homosexual refernces. "Youths with perpetual "freshness" as a "reward" for muslim men. While mohammed said, "their is no compulsion in religion", he ALSO said, "I will cast terror in the hearts of infidels. Strike off their heads". Hmm..that's rather "compulsory".
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719
Now let's see the bible:
"There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind." 2 Samuel 22:9-11
Is the bible saying here that God was like a dragon that is riding baby girl angels?!
alcapon2 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART2
LOL..your imagination has gotten the best of you..LOL. Proverbs stated:"What is his name, and what is his Son's name"?. What does your "imagination" think of that?!!..LOLOL.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719
Now let's see is there PORNO in the bible?!
Song of Solomon 8:10 "Dear brothers, I'm a walled-in virgin still, but my breasts are full— And when my lover sees me, he knows he'll soon be satisfied."
"How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince's daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman's hands. Your navel (VAGINA) is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine ...." The NIV Bible, Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9)
Does God write this garbage?!!
alcapon2 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART 3
You trully are a moron..LOL. A "navel" is a "belly button" you idiot..LOLOL. Where does "God" NEED to state man's desire for women; and secondly; the Old Testament is a chronilce of the Jewish people. You seem to not undetstand the difference between poetic language/history, and Godly intent. The same Old Testament gave the world the 10 commnadments. Such as "thou shall not murder", and "thou shall not commit adultery".
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719
The word of God should always have a purpose. wut's the puprose or biblical lesson learned from knowing these erotic details?
What's the biblical lesson from learning that Lot was drunk and slept with his daughters yet God saved them and there was no punishment? (GENESIS 19:33-35 )
What's the lesson from knowing that Noah , a man trusted by God to build a huge ship and save the believers, was a drunkard?! Can God trust a drunkard with that kind of responsibility?!
alcapon2 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART 3
What's to be learned?!!!!!. IT'S DESTRCUTIVE HISTORY, AND TRUTHFULLNESS!!!!!.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719
you just can't justify any of the violence or absurdities in the bible so wut u do is quickly give irrational comments on them with lots of explanation marks and "LOL" and then move over to your favourite subject where u through tons of insults and accusations on the prophet Muhammad(PBUH)..making it hard for some to follow up with all these red herrings. This shows immaturity and dishonesty. Quran spoke of humble good christians and definitely u're not one of them.
alcapon2 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART 3
What frustrates you is the COMPLETE opposite..LOL. The "violence" in the Bible is not a "Godly" persute; unlike islam..it's the history of the Jewish people and their relationship. The same Bible you criticize, gave us the 10 commandments(thou shall not murder, thou shall not commit adultry, thou shall not covet thy nighbours wife, etc.) If the Bible "promoted" what you are suggeting; we'd have two different books..LOLOL.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART 4
Now that we have displayed your ignorance about Christianity..on to islam; and MY comments and questions:)))). First; how do you justify polygamy, concubines, and sex with "women whom the right hand possesses" as the behaviour and message of the "messenger" of "God"?. Or how about how he made special privleges for himself, then when challneged to perform just ONR miracle in the koran; HE COULDN'T?!!!!...
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART 5
How about how moahmmed said, "I will strike terror in the infidel; strike off their heads; the very tips of their fingers"?. Or how he said, "do not take Jews and Christians as friends"?. Or how the koran was first written without vowels or diacritical dots, which affect the meaning of the word?. How about how in the 8th-9th century it was changed by muslims "scholars"; giving the koran the meaning" THEY thought was correct(and more violent)?!!!!.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719
(cont'd) you really don't undertsand anything about islam or about arabic language!!
Arabic language in general had no vowels at that time. Back in the Middle East 1400 years ago, the Quraishi dialect was not the only one used among Arabs. There existed 6 other dialects along with it but it was the most popular and most accurate dialect. The Arabic dialects had problems with each others, and that's why standardizing the Noble Quran with its original Quraishi dialect was essential
alcapon2 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART 8
Apparently YOU have quite a bit of "trouble" with islam and Arabic..LOL. The koran can read 7 different way; and with 2 variants. That means it can be read 14 way. The early koranic writings wre written without vowels or diacritical dots; which effects the meaning of the words. In the 8th-9th century, muslim "scholars" wrote down what THEY saw as the "correct" meaning. Their is no evidence of the koran in the 1st century after mohammed's death. Go read up on it, MORON..LOL.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719
(cont'd) An example, some Arabs used to have a dialect which originated from Yemen, where they would add "an" at the end of a noun - e.g. "Taliban" is the same as the Arabic word "Talib" which means "Student". The Quraishi dialect is the most popular dialect that uses the arabic words without altering their sound, and is today the dialect used among Arabs who speak Proper Arabic. So the problem was with the arabic language not with Quran.
alcapon2 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART 9
WHERE ARE THE ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS?!!!!. "Many scholars agree that while some of transcriptions of mohammed's words may have benne written in a haphazard(quick and inaccurate) manner; the koran had primariliy been transmitted orally(which most of those people were killed in the battle of yemana); little was actually written down". "When the source of revelation died(mohammed), muslims had no one to turn to when disputes occured over what mohammed preached"..enotes.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART 12..on islam
WHER ARE THE ANSWERS TO THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS:
How do you follow a "prophet" who was epileptic since childhood, married a 9 year old(among his 12 offical wives; COUNTLESS concubines), made speicla privleges for himself, couldn't perform ONE miracle, thought the voice of God meant he was crazy; tried to jump off a mountain in a suicidal rage; had 2 of the most famous Arab poets killed for criticizing his violence(including her chlidren, and raping her)?!!!!
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719
As for ur bible, it is corrupted according to Moses. Deuteronomy 31:29"For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn from the way I have commanded you. In days to come, disaster will fall upon you because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD and provoke him to anger by what your hands have made."
Jeremiah 8:8 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?
alcapon2 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART 10
Your desperation and stupidity never stop amazing me..LOL. Moses is "quoted" in the book of "corrupted scripture"?!!!!LOL. Do you know how stupid you sound?!!!!!LOL. First of all; he never said ANYTHING of "corrupted scripture"..LOL.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART 11
Jeremiah and Moses followed the same "Torah"(Old Testament) that gave the 10 commandments; and follows the way of Moses. You can't seem to do more than come up with your OWN version of Biblical intent and content..LOLOL. Furthermore; your dumb enough to suggest a meaning of scripture in the SAME book that 'INCLUDEDS" it; and then you quote from of the SAME scripture you call "corrupt"!!!!LOL. Do you NOW see why your a MORON?..LOLOL.:((((
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@alcapon2..PART 13..on islam
How do you follow a "prophet" who said.."their is no compulsion in religion", then said, "I will strike terror in the infidel; strike of their heads; the very tips of their fingers". Jesus said, "love your enemy", "feed the hungry", "cloth the naked", "serve the servants", "the Father and Son are one", "no one knows the father but hte Son". Proverbs says:"What is thoust name who made the winds and seas; and what is his Son's name; that thoust can't tell?".
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@alcapon2..LASTLY
How about mohammed thniking he was going crazy, or possesses by the Arab demon jinn; when he first heard the "word" of "God"?. How about how he was suicidal; and tried to jump off a mountain?. How about he was epileptic since childhood?. Surley, as a muslim, you mus know these historical facts, right?!!!!. As you seen, the absurdity in this debate is your ignorance of theology and reasoning, along with your inferiority coplex, unless you answer MY questions; this debate's OVER
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719
U keep showing more ignorance. Jinn are no demons. There are good jinn and bad jinn. Any man would get frightened even when an angel appears to him for the first time. Mary was also scared when Angel Gabriel appeared to her. it's really a silly argument.
"do not take jews and christians friends" this is not a pr