The Dangers of Charles Finney's "Theology" (Kielar) [2of2]

[agbtg7]

Where exactly is the beginning of that process where people begin their walk with the Lord if not through prayer? Since you have completely eliminated altar calls, I suppose you should also condemn Billy Graham and many other Baptist preachers who use altar calls as a beginning point, not the completion of the process. If God does it all like Calvin preached then why do we need to pray or read the Word? Why do we need to renew our minds or not sin? Or do you believe in greasy grace? MGM.

[agbtg7]

Have you ever written Charles Finney's Revival Lectures? If you have made yourself aware of his work you will find that he often spoke of breaking up the furrow ground. And since you want to use the concept of being saved by faith alone when the Word clearly declares that we need to work out our own salvation with fear & trembling. Or that we are to examine ourselves to see if we be of the faith? To as many as received Him to them He gave power to become Sons of God is the beginning only. MGM.

[wjcharlieee]

Good Balance on Altar Calls, for a Preacher who does NOT use Altar Calls/ Sinner's Prayer

[alphaldm]

Is it not great when we with "the Spirit of the Living God" can see and hear from Our Holy Lord God the "Truth of His Love and Understanding and His Knowledge" Which has been Given To those who Will Hear and See What He has Planed For ALL who will Believe and Receive What He has Done Through JESUS HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON !! For everyone else read what is said in the Scriptures "For This Is Your Day Of Salvation" . 2 peter 3:16 .

[gwayne11000]

can't get saved by accepting christ. not scriptural. the only way to salvation is by gods mercy. the bible is his word,read it. not one verse but read it and compare scripture. gods elect, no nody can come the the father but....,accept christ when god says all are evil? don't think so. better to pray forgivness and hope he accepts us.

[gdcgray1]

1Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

When I see a man live up to this, then I will listen. Otherwise it is just more flesh and man's proud wisdom.

Good grief.

[gdcgray1]

Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Who failed here God? the apostles? Most will go to hell. That's what Jesus said. Is this because He did it wrong? What a dumb argument.

[donlaxner]

One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

Robert A. Heinlein

[tigerlilly66]

I happen to attend a church that uses the altar call in the way the speaker alludes to...no crystal clear gospel presentation in the message. It mostly shows up as a "tag" at the very end. Nothing whatever has been said about a person's need of salvation until the piano starts to play, and those unsaved urged to "come forward" for very nebulous reasons. What a shame.

I'm a Baptist too, Mr. Kielar, and think you are basically right on in what you've said. Finney knew he had blown it bigtime!

[speakthetruthplease1]

gotta lose these commercials. can't share these videos with this garbage and hope to reach people!

[claudiuspartan]

I have read many books by different authors about Charles Finney preaching and its nothing like you have said.I read that the power of God was so strong over the city that healing would happen without anyone touching or praying,because of the living standard under Charles preaching.People would be under such conviction of sin that bars were closed,theaters were closed because those things would not bring glory to God.When he would preach people would run to get saved under the conviction sin

[ixthustruth]

7777 views..jackpot!

[daysofelijah02]

What astounds me is that moody radio (and other networks) carry "Stories of Great Christians"...and one story is about Finney.

[dscote2001]

If this dummy would spend more time preaching the gospel instead of attacking preachers, there's no tellin' what might be accomplished!

[Ted2864]

@dscote2001 " If this dummy..." What did you say about attacking preachers?

Anyways, he is valiantly 'contending for the faith', and thus protecting the sheep of God from wolves who have come into our midst! Gee, do you READ much,...huh?

[sixgunjony]

Apparently you can't post more than so many words, so here is the rest of the story: He was saved in an old farmhouse when we were visiting out of state, and it took a couple of hours. That could never happen at any alter. And he said that he knows that his experience of finding God could never have happened in the presence of another. Modern methods say nothing of repentance, of a changed life, a surrendered heart to God, nothing but 'believe'.

[sixgunjony]

It's true, there are many false converts and making salvation merely a method, a 1-2-3 repeat after me and your saved, is a crime against God and man. Satan loves a religious man. My father grew up a pastors son, went to seminary, preached in churches, and knew all the doctrines and religious lingo that is needed to fit in, in "churches" of today. But he was lost. And it took much prayer, and over over a year, a very miserable year, for God to bring him to the point where he saw he was lost.

[prn72271]

The alter call is very dangerous, that it is. What ministers do is say, "if you come to the alter and say this, then you have a place in heaven", frightening! countless times I have seen people go to the alter and then you dont see them again. I am not against a public confession in the least but stop playing the music, no singing and preach the full gospel of Jesus. faith and repentance!

[HermitintheRain]

Altar calls are popish and even blasphemous idolatry in themselves. We have only one altar-Jesus Christ. If you are being called to salvation and are being made to respond and receive Christ, know that you are being "...born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:13) You are not being born again by an altar call but by the Holy Spirit, according to the will of the Father through atoning blood of Jesus Christ.

[dgkid21]

..I'm posting this comment with the up most love..but to say how God does and should do things is down right absurd!! Who are we as human beings to suggest or even imply how God converts people..or who He uses!! God is God..He can do what He wants..with or without our logic..our opions..etc Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation!! And Mr.Finney confessed and professed Jesus Christ..the rest is irrelevet.

[Ted2864]

@dgkid21 Who are we to suggest?... we are the ones who actually READ how God said He would do it. That's not hard. No longer a mystery to those who want to learn what God is doing and how. The Bible. God is BOUND by His word and not confused and "looking for new methods"! God has called Believers and chosen them before the founding of the earth! Demons confessed and proffessed Jesus as the Christ! There's no power in that. You give God liberty that He doesn't give Himself! You don't know God.

[jubetuber]

Finney was one of the worst heretics that America ever produced. He was a Pelagian, rejected humanity's natural depravity, and preached works-salvation. He was not a servant of God but a servant of the devil.

[pulangsurot]

If would to believe the Bible, the last time check in Acts 16:13,14; it says just believe.

I would rather believe the Bible than any person.

[1234breakdancer]

With respect,I got saved as the result of an altar call and I'm a committed follower of the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth today and love God with all my heart....I think we need to be open to however God wants to use things to get things done..I know that Scripture says .."God would want NONE to perish but ALL to come to the saving knowledge of Jesus(paraphrased)....

[1234breakdancer]

As Christians,believers in the Lord Jesus Christ,shouldn't we be preaching the Gospel "only?"Doesn't Gospel translate "good news?"Criticizing a dead man's legacy and nagging about altar calls?That is not gospel to me.Gospel is what Jesus did at the cross for me-shouldn't we preach this Gospel?Critciizing is never good news,no matter WHAT the topic...we are here as Christians to "preach Christ and Him crucified...!!

[1234breakdancer]

And any way...who are we to judge a man or woman's heart whether they are at an altar call or not..?The only One who can and has the right to judge a man or woman's heart at an altar call or not is "The Judge!"-The Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth!Forget about this to altar call or not to altar call-preach the Gospel!The "Good" News!!Criticizing is never "good news"...

[jamaalfridge]

The way he stated his observation of the majority of his converts, it sounds like Finney realized the error of his ways, hopefully producing godly sorrow (as opposed to worldly sorrow), leading to repentance and salvation. I don't take any pleasure in his legacy of failure, but in his humility and repentance to God. But if he has been regenerated by God, hopefully he left some form of good fruit that can perhaps begin to clean up his mess. This is a sorry state of affairs.

[Katykate87]

Charles Finney taught that you can only be saved through believing and accepting Jesus as your Saviour. He also taught that a true Christian will live a holy life, and that is what the Bible also teaches. What is wrong with giving someone an opportunity to accept the Lord? Whether you have an altar call or not, you will always get people who profess to be Christians but are not. That is their own responsibility, not the preachers.

[Ted2864]

@Katykate87 Please admit that the "culture" of the altar call and how it is most commonly used is one of error. It also includes the leaders and congregation who are present PROClAIMING (ignorantly, and usually wrong)this new person to be saved when they do NOT know.

Why is this important? Because it gives a false assurance and hardens the heart to the Holy Spirit when He says "Repent". I t is better not to call, but to let the Spirit draw and Torment :-) ...convict ;-) him forward! Let God

[Ted2864]

@Katykate87 You 'sound' like a reasonable person, look..

If your best friend tells some guy that he ought to ask you on a date, and then he DOES!...how interested IS he? Who knows. BUT!...

If a guy walks into a room of twenty girls and says "I would love to take YOU to dinner, would you please join me? Now, does he mean it? Of corse he does! Cause you and I both know that guys don't have the guts to do something like that unless drawn by something bigger than themselves!

(poor guy..:))

[theocratickingdom30]

@Katykate87; He denied original sin among many other truths central to the christian faith.

[ascalagab]

@Katykate87: it's wrong because it's and inadequate gospel. the bible said we need to CONFESS Jesus as LORD and believe him as Savior. (Romans 10:910). teaching people that is heretic. NOT JUST SAVIOUR, it should be LORD and SAVIOUR, that's the complete one, Receive Jesus AS HE IS. it's all or nothing. receive the Jesus of the bible or receive an invented Jesus.

[razputin34]

@ascalagab I wouldn't disagree with you at all, but do you have a real choice in the matter? Did Jesus die solely for His elect? Can any person come to know Christ or is it held for a chosen group? The elect will confess Him as all in all, but only the elect. We are created by God with this depraved spiritual DNA and the only being that can fix it, only fixes for a chosen few. In fact, He creates the person knowing full well that He is going to put him in hell.

[toobfunnybunny]

@Katykate87 read finney's systematich theology. he denied that jesus died for the sins of the elect.

[razputin34]

@toobfunnybunny In the video presentation Mr. Kielar tells us that during these false teachings God chose to save a small number by way of the True Gospel being heard somewhere else . How can he make this statement with a straight face? He has no idea if that is true or not, but he says it like it is. He builds up the idea that Finney is false and anyone that listened and believed maybe false, but if any truly believed it wasn't because of the message that Finney preached. Insanity. So..

[razputin34]

@toobfunnybunny Finney can cause people to believe in a false Gospel, yet really God didn't want them anyway, so they are only doing what they are supposed to do. How can anyone argue that false doctrine is dangerous or matters?  God is going to save those He chose not matter what. No one can be led astray that is handpicked by God to be saved. I can come here an present all of my open views about God, but I do not have the power to cause an elect person to change his mind.

[razputin34]

@Katykate87 Keep in mind that most of these folks here are probably going to present their points by way of Calvin and Augustine. From their view God chose a people for Himself before the world was created. Keep in mind that they are the only ones that understand scripture clearly. No one else can comprehend scripture because God has not regenerated them to understand. God did not die for everyone to have an opportunity to come to Him. He died only for those who were chosen.

[jebeja]

LaneCh and all, Does anyone here know what exactly 'can be' used in place of altar calls? I understand why they don't make sense, and why they shouldn't be done ( I will bring it up at the next Bible meeting for sure), so what do you do with someone who tells you (if you're witnessing to them) that they wish to give their lives to Christ? Let them say what they're let to say via prayer and leave it at that or what?

[Goopie1128]

Altar calls, I believe are essential. I think it is important to give people an opportunity to respond to what they have heard. TO go to the altar and seek God and do business with God. We are to make Gods house a house of prayer, and it happens at the altar. I think it is wise to heed the warnings and dangers of an altar call in this video.

[BrothaMinister]

altar calls are ok.. i dont agree with those churches who tell everyone else not to look and ask others to raise hand if they want to walk up. secondly im tired of everyone using romans 10:9 as the reason why its ok Just to ask Jeus into heart or to SAY that they beleive.. that does not mean you have recieved the holy spirit at that time.. its possible but not always the case. many will PROFESS to know the Lord and wont get in . matt. 7:21-23

[cfinn100]

Amen!!! (Romans 10:9) is probably the most misinterpreted scripture in the bible. This "easy believism in confessing and believing" is TOTALLY MISLEADING MILLIONS. I get so tired of hearing this non-sense. And you know who is polluting these peoples w/ this non sense....these none God -called preachers. And yea I said none God-called because Paul said to consider them accursed if they are preaching another gospel than the apostles taught.

[rwnministries]

Walking up to the altar after an alter call makes you a "Christian" the same way as walking into a recruiters office makes you a "Soldier". It's an important 1st step, but nothing more than a 1st step. Thanks to Mark Kielar for the intelligent presentation.

-God Bless-

[ProstrateBeforeHim]

WOW!!! That's good stuff!

Did everybody catch that?

I think I'll restate it for clarity!

Approaching the altar after a well-preached sermon makes you no more a disciple of Christ than approaching a recruiter makes you a soldier.

Preachers can preach moving sermons until they turn blue in the face to draw men forward in droves (and no doubt, they have and will continue to do so), but "No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him," (John 6:44 AKJV)

[jebeja]

rwnministries, ProstrateBeforeHim, All, The church that I attend does altar calls, but lets the public know that in 'no way' does this make you a Christian. Our Pastor gives those who come forward 'what the Word of God says' about repentance and salvation via Jesus Christ and the Word, so what should be used 'instead of' altar calls then??? Some Pastors says they don't believe in this, giving testamonies, or anything else in this category so what can be done instead via the Word???

[christophorM]

I don't believe the first church had so-called alter calls but they taught what jesus told them to teach the first gospel that they should repent and believe"Jesus took their sin life at the cross" & when Jesus died we died romans 6...They then "MADE DISCPLES" of the words of Jesus and the instrutions Jesus gave the aspostles to teach the church.The"just recieve Jesus doctrine or verse" is not in the Bible.If your a aspostle of the" just recieve Jesus doctrine" then you are a false apostle!

[openairpreacher]

Finneys teaching is dangerous to people who want to keep sinning and claim they are christians

[JTTNMinistries]

AMEN

[norgeforkristus]

What do you call it when someone says, "I'm sorry to see you think you know The Truth,"?

I wish I knew, because I get this a lot. I'd say it's stating a premise in the absense of any argument -- it's as easy as saying ,"Pigs can fly." But what is the argument? Should I just say, "Pigs can fly," whenever I hear this attack on epistemology without an argument to back it up?

[ApostleIsraelJimah]

It is amazing that you think your understanding about alter call and the doctrine of salvation is THE TRUTH. It is unfortunate that brethren like you are out there to attack the move of the God you are supposed to be working for, God have mercy. I have used alter calls based on the Bible and have seen fatastic real, and lasting decisions for Christ followed by a godly life style.

[LaneCh]

...and I'm sure you're an Apostle, too.

[gtrjunky]

Sorry to tell you, but you're not an "apostle".

[APSOC38]

No offense intended, but you seem like you're trying to bring glory unto yourself just based on the final sentence of your posting. In all earnestness, can you please give me a chapter and verse reference to justify altar calls?

[opoutry]

@ApostleIsraelJimah Men are dead in their trespasses &sin.The only thing they do is follow the prince of this air.They are haters of God.They are enemies of God. They are blind. They would rather suffer in hell thruout all eternity than bow their knee & repent & believe in your God. Now, go try to learn an evangelism technique to bring them to life. (Altar calls, tell all sorts of stories & testimonies, manipulate their passions and emotions and the only thing you will have are false converts).

[opoutry]

@ApostleIsraelJimah The more churches attempt to grow not by being biblical but finding the latest thing to appeal to the greatest number of people like altar calls, as long as we are doing that, we will never see the power of God. My friend, we don’t do something because it works.We do something because it’s true, because it's BIBLICAL.

[opoutry]

@ApostleIsraelJimah As Christians, we’re not supposed to lead people into things that are not biblical because nowhere does Jesus Christ or any of the apostles preached the gospel & then afterwards cry out, “Who wants to receive Jesus, just stand up, march forward & say this prayer.” Instead they command all men everywhere to repent & believe the gospel. People cut themselves away from every hope in any good work and throw themselves only upon the mercy of God in Jesus Christ.

[opoutry]

@ApostleIsraelJimah For sure in the time of Ezekiel there was no technique to bring life into lifeless bones. There was no technique, there is no persuasion, there was no power, there was nothing humanly speaking that could be done to bring these dead bones to life.THAT IS EVANGELISM! That there is no technique like altar calls, no persuasion, no human power or effort that could be done to bring life to spiritually dead lost people.REMEMBER THAT WHEN YOU GO OUT PREACHING THE GOSPEL!

[opoutry]

@ApostleIsraelJimah My friend please read Ezekiel 37:1-10. This passage describes the conversion of men. When you go out to preach the gospel, as we look at this text, you are always an Ezekiel and you are always standing in a valley of dead bones and behold they are very dry.

[opoutry]

@ApostleIsraelJimah My friend you said, "I have used alter calls based on the Bible and have seen fatastic real, and lasting decisions for Christ followed by a godly life style." Praise the Lord for that!But I would say that they were saved DESPITE OF THAT and not because of that.Before I used to do altar calls but now I realized that it's not biblical. Now I do what the apostles did before-preach about repentance and belief in the gospel.

[barrypatrickius]

@ApostleIsraelJimah I don't know what you are but I appreciate your response so far as it goes. I am not an Arminian/''lose you salvation'' beiever. This guy IS a Calvinistic blasphemer but ALL Arminian/lose your salvation are "Arminian works devils'' who believe in salvation by WORKS. ALL'' lose your salvation'' is salvation by works. Only Calvinism worships the devil as much as '' lose your salvation''

[RBNightlinger]

@ApostleIsraelJimah Salvation is of the Lord, not human decision.

[jbbremerton]

i've always heard them called an "invitation". an invitation implies a voluntary trip. my old pastor used to say, "Just take that first step and Jesus will be with you the rest of the way." i never answered the invitation during a service until i had met Jesus outside of church. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them." - Matthew 7:19-20 alter calls are irrelevant.

[milkman589]

Well if by your own admission "alter calls are irrelevant" then why have them in a service where we are supposed to be spending our time wisely with the Lord?

[sailacrossthesun]

Yes, I saw Paul Washer say Billy said only 5%

of the people "saved" at his own crusades were

really saved.

I don't know why everyone goes on about Finney.Billy's percentages...according to Billy...are not any higher.

[LaneCh]

The main reason is because it isn't about percentages of people making decisions for Christ, it's about theology and Finney taught heresy. He put a lot of people's souls in jeopardy. That's the issue of contention.

[oneauthor]

Billy Graham said only 5 percent of his converts stayed saved.

[veryeffective]

Well said !! Amen.

[veryeffective]

Well said fractalfires.

A lot of this is so much nonsense.

[LaneCh]

Can you provide specifically what you are regarding as "nonsense" and back it up with primary source material?

[LaneCh]

Finney, himself, promoted decisional regeneration and altar calls were unknown before his heresies. A big part of why he did such a thing was because he denied justification by faith and imputed righteousness:

[LaneCh]

These and similar passages are relied upon, as teaching the doctrine of an imputed righteousness; and such as these: "The Lord our righteousness" (Phil. 3:9). . . . "Christ our righteousness" is Christ the author or procurer of our justification. But this does not imply that He procures our justification by imputing His obedience to us. . . [Charles Finney, Systematic Theology (Minneapolis: Bethany), 372-73].

Heresy at it's "finest".

[Katykate87]

You omitted the rest of what he said out to make it look like heresy. He teaches that it is Grace and not justice that reckoned Jesus righteousness to us. Jesus had to obey God for Himself and not only for us. We need to be obedient to God for ourlselves too. Faith without works is dead. He teaches that we are saved through faith in Christ. Go read his book Cristal Christaianity

[agentorangetechno]

but Finney belives in decisional regeneration.

that faith/salvation is due to mans will.

and not Gods will.

faith is not some mental or emotional response, it is a particular gift due only from regeneration to those effectually called of God, who are called according to his own purpose.

and not according to mans mental or emotional response to salvation.

those are not a true and saving faith.

imputed faith from regen is not human, its supernatural.

and always results in conversion.

[veryeffective]

"Finney's real converts are comparatively few"?

How would you know now.?

Why are they talking about this when they could be discussing what we do now to rid christianity of the junk prosperity success gospel.???

Altar call are neutral?

ARE these people serious??

[LaneCh]

"Why are they talking about this when they could be discussing what we do now to rid christianity of the junk prosperity success gospel.???"

The prosperity "gospel" isn't the only heresy going on today. Many of the problems the church faces today are a direct result from the heresy Charles Finney embraced. They discuss the prosperity "gospel" in other episodes.

[artlinefree]

It is better to read about Finney for yourself.

Listening to this makes him sound terrible.

I don't know why they attack Finney.

Read how he spent days in Prayer for just one soul,don't listen to this.

If Finney was good enough for Keith Green honey,he's good enough for me!!

[LaneCh]

One can also read about how he said, "Salvation is the work of man." They could even read about how he denied Christ's substitutionary atonement and original sin. There are even more heresies if one digs deep enough!

[Katykate87]

"With Jesus Christ as Mediator of this covenant of grace (in opposition to the original covenant of works), salvation was now by faith. The obedience and death of Jesus Christ was regarded as the reason any individual could be saved, not an individual's personal obedience...Cristal Christianity by Charles G. Finney from the chapter Discovering The Way Of Salvation

[sisters1010]

Just because God used a heretic to bring Keith Green to Himself is the work of God alone not Finney. Finney is terrible. the worlds view of Christianity today is a direct result of the messed up theology of Finney. I recognized this long before Kielar started teaching about it. ONce you get in the word of God you will realize Finney is a heretic. His theology is based on his law experience (man made experience) rather than on his experience in the scriptures. So what if he prayer for days.

[Faustulus777]

A heretic!!!!!!! Yeesh. That's ignorant! Keith Green spoke the theology of Finney and Green's music is still being used by the Lord TODAY to bring  more people to Christ.There is no more anointed music in all the world than Keith Green's.

[LaneCh]

Well, Keith Green is an infallible source of course. (sarcasm)

[SeekJesus2009]

Keith Green's music is not anointed.  Only the Word of God is anointed. Music gives a false sense of being saved or close to God. In reality, it is just pure emotion.

[Ted2864]

@Faustulus777 A fine musician, but very young in the Lord, with much to learn!

But he died very young. His music is Passionate and moving and served it's purpose, but theologically had much room to grow. Don't make him an idol that you will have to account for later.

[talkback22]

You can believe what you like.

This still contains a lot of rubbish.

So many Christians are false??

We already knew that,don't blame Finney.

[LaneCh]

Again, there's your assertion but where is your evidence?

[talkback22]

Reeling from the impact of Finney?

Oh,come on.

I am reeling from listening to this rubbish.

[LaneCh]

Where's your evidence that you are? The videos posted on this profile regarding Finney provide ample evidence as to the horrible effects of his ministry, yet are we to believe that it's false because you said, "Oh, come on."? That would hardly be faithful to Christ to do such a thing.

[beejays11]

You kill his reputation because Copeland,Osteen,Benny Hinn and others have

hurt the Gospel.

[LaneCh]

Are you not familiar with Finney's history? If not, I have some audio I'll share with you that discusses it at great length. This man destroyed his own reputation.

[beejays11]

So we are going to kill the man because he had altar calls?

Many Christians are not christians and you blame altar calls??

Blame Joel Osteen et al.

[LaneCh]

Who killed anyone? These videos merely share the facts regarding him.

[ApostleIrv]

I have been watching & listening to Mark Kielars Instructional Videos ( WORD Pictures )

for quite some time now. I must say, they are among the BEST, if not THE BEST Videos for TRUE Biblical ( sound ) Doctrine. The Holy Ghost bares witness of them.

[TruthAboutMessiah]

Another heresy is confessing Jesus as Lord according to Romans 10:9. Romans 10:9 is used a s a formula WITHOUT repentance!!! Genuine born again experience comes with a real change in life, joy which was never experienced before, peace that that world cannot give and a personal awareness of Lord Jesus Christ. Many preachers dismiss this as simply a feeling but they are NOT

[GreaterFaith1990]

This is sure strong material! Do you know where I can get the full sermon?

[LaneCh]

If you go to firstboynton dot com, you can find a link to download sermons on ITunes. They also have some available to download straight off the site, but I'm not sure which are still available.

[IndependentConserv]

Hebrews shows we have no more altar built with hands. So I am against them. The so-called 'altar' in buildings becomes a point of worship, a literal idol of sorts. People feel that making it to the 'altar', they've reached some "high holy place". As if a building has points where the Holy Spirit rest in stronger levels than say the back pew. Acting as if the building is the temple of the Holy Spirit. God's Holy Spirit is NOT on the man made stoop called an 'altar'.

[AreYouKiddinMelol]

continued...

This video twists his words. The video makes it sound as if he denied the atonement. He did not. He denied the penal substitutionary model of atonement. Many christians do, and for good reason; because it doesn't make any damn sense.

[LaneCh]

"He denied the penal substitutionary model of atonement. Many christians do, and for good reason; because it doesn't make any damn sense."

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

- Paul the Apostle

((1Cor 2:14)

[LaneCh]

If I didn't believe that "in Adam all men die and in Christ all shall be made alive" so in effect, I have to save and regenerate myself by Christ's example (key word), I would call people who believe that Christ had to die for a purpose unregenerate, as well because I would think, "Hey, they aren't following a "good example" and being "good examples" like us who are."

[LaneCh]

Believers don't follow a "good example". We follow the one who has the office of Prophet, Priest, and King. The Lord Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, not to be a "good example" but to be a substitutionary, propitiatory atonement for his people.

[jebeja]

LandCh, following the good example theme, am I deeply mistaken, or did I not just read in the Bible recently where Christ said the only 'good' person (or something along that line, I will try to locate the verse) was 'God'? It sort of threw me but knowing how Jesus felt about the Father, I began to understand where He was coming from and it made me love Him (Christ) even more the way He 'stuck up' for our Heavenly Father. Hope this doesn't sound to crazy to you & those here.

[BalthasarHubmaier]

Charles Finney was one of the greatest evangelists who ever lived. His book on Revival Fires shows how Biblically based his message was. The Biblical position on salvation is based on repenting, confessing Christ's name, and accepting God's free and gracious gift, NOT a Calvinistic election based on God's choice alone. Calvinists are in error. That is why most of them are unregenerate.

[daafith]

What you refer ro is hyper-calvinism which takes away human responsibility.

[jbbremerton]

that's true. if we are sinners, we are responsible for sin. hyper-calvinism would make God responsible for our own wrongdoings.

[LaneCh]

I'm just going to ask because many people don't realize there is a difference, but are you aware that there is a difference between Hyper-Calvinism and Calvinism?

[jbbremerton]

yes, but clarify in case i'm wrong.

[LaneCh]

Well, a few doctrines Hyper-Calvinism holds to is that it doesn't believe that things like the free offer of the Gospel, God's common grace to everyone in terms of not sending everyone to hell at this very moment, and witnessing to the lost is commanded by Scripture. Orthodox Calvinism holds the opposite view.

[Faustulus777]

Exactly.

[Faustulus777]

Exactly what Balthasar said. Shame on you for putting down such a man of God as Finney.

[LaneCh]

Finney was a heretic. If he's in heaven, it's because he repented of what he held to during the bulk of his lifetime.

[mercy92399]

You spoke well for me daafith...I am having the same "experience" (sorry for this word) as I learn more of God's sovereignty and grace in my salvation...Just fills my heart with love for Him.

[Blaze25z]

Thanks Lane for all your videos... POWERFUL!!! CLEAR!!! SOUND!!! BIBLICAL!!!!

[lutheranman]

Spurgeon onced told a story of a man on his deathbed that was a great reader, and he read many, many books. But as he lay there, he said-"I wish I could have read more of my Bible..."

[holyisourking]

powerful video

every pastor who is concerned for truth should watch this video.

[daafith]

Thanks. The more I hear about God's sovereignty in salvation, the more it sinks into my heart. It cleanses me from my former beliefs about being saved because of my goodness and brings me true faith in God's complete provision through the life of Christ.

[ReformedLou]

daafith - wow, well said, and powerful.

[skalapunk]

The 6 dangers are some scary stuff!

[ReformedLou]

Altar Call = extra-biblical. Seemingly well-intentioned experiences and things tend to become objects of man's idol factory. Altar calls become notches in the spiritual belt. Crucifixes gain beads, with which people pray to a "coredemptrix". Word and sacrament...word and sacrament...please.

[thrufaithalone]

Lou - "Altar calls become notches in the spiritual belt."

I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head!