@Tama94jch Our sins cannot be "covered" like a blanket. We must REPENT of them, and be free. "Covering up" our sins is a cop out for it EXCUSES them. "There shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination o r maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb" (Rev 21:27).
We must be made pure either in our lives, or the by the grace of God in purgatory. God Bless.
If we had to work out our own salvation we would all end up in hell. The Bible states in the book of Romans that there is not one who is righteous, not one. No matter how many good works we do we are still sinners. The Bible says that the heart is desperately wicked. It just takes one sin to sentence us to hell. It only took one sin for Adam and Eve and God said they shall die. God sent his Son to save us. His death paid our penalty for sin. Believe on Him and be saved.
Catholics can believe in evolution, this is CONTRARY to what the Bible says. Catholics believe mary was sinless, this is CONTRARY to what the Bible says. the catholic organisation has a history of torturing and murdering MILLIONS of innocent Christians and people that did not agree with it, this is CONTRARY to the Bible. Catholics can steal up to $30 without confessing.this is CONTRARY to the Bible.Catholics believe mary remained a virgin. This is CONTRARY to the bible.
@kiwichristian2009 .Catholics believe mary remained a virgin...This is our belief....The bible as studied over many years teaches us that Mary remained a virgin., and it is also what the first Christians believed. Think about it, Mary lived with Jesus, whom she knew was the Son of God, and watched him grow and then suffer and die for us. She lived her life as Jesus lived His life, for God.
@stevesilvia Hello, my friend. Long time no see/debate! :). I know that is what catholics believe. I attest that there is no Biblical foundation for marys continual virginity. We will have to agree to disagree on that one. However, a more important question is this. The rcc infallibly stated that there is NO salvation outside the catholic church. I hear now that catholics believe that anyone can be saved, even if they have never heard of Jesus Christ and just live a good life? Which is true?
@curiosity344 What, that salvation is only in the catholic organisation? "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unan Snactam, 1302). INFALLIBLE PAPAL STATEMENT
@nofearinlove418, what we believe is that a person who feeds a brother who is hungry, is putting faith into action. Helping those in need is walking the talk... Salvation belongs to God to decide, not us.
but your doctrine say" the one who DOES NOT WORK, but believes in Him who JUSTIFIES the ungodly, his faith (IS NOT AT ALL) RECKONED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS"
that bible clearly says in laymen terms
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who DOES NOT WORK, but believes in Him who JUSTIFIES the ungodly, his faith IS RECKONED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,"
If i can show you that the Word of God that He has entrusted us teaches Salvation without work
For us Catholics, we consider as The Bible what is considered so by the Church.. not some book which Harry down the street prints with the title Bible.
So I cant see how someone who names himself as Rabbi can fail to understand this. Its not a sin to read the Bible, not something that is claimed to be the Bible, thinking thats the Bible... and ofcourse you are here to throw mud.
@AlYassou3Rabbi There is a current cannon law that forbids the publication of Bibles that have NOT been approved by the vatican. Talk about control/cult!
@curiosity344 You were born a Catholic, I chose to become a Christian. You were likely baptized as an infant, which totally disregards both John the Baptists baptism, but also the baptisms that were performed by the Apostles.
Baptism has never saved anyone, other then a Jew. If you go back and reread Acts 2, you will be enlighted as to who Peter was speaking to, and then cross reference that with Gal 2:7-9
You are stealing another mans message. Rev 2:9 is Catholicism.
Jesus said you must be born of water and of Spirit-- thus your citation of Acts 10 doesn't prove anyting. Read John chapter 3:3-5 You must be born again (born of water and the Spirit). Both are present in Acts 10.
@joshlc27 I will remind you that the Gentiles had already received the Holy Ghost prior to being baptized.
The Holy Ghost is the portion of the Godhead that indwells us, and since God cannot reside in sin, the only way that the person could be indwelled is if, THEY WERE SAVED.
Regeneration means renewal. It is the blood that regenerates us. Christ did not shed water on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.
Say what you like, but those Gentile believers of Acts trump your assumption
@AlYassou3Rabbi Precisely why I quote Jesus when he says you must be born of water, and of the (Holy Spirit)... and he did shed water on the Cross-- remember that he took a spear to his side-- "and blood and water flowed".
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified
@AlYassou3Rabbi Please don't misunderstand me, It is by Christ's Grace that we are saved, and baptism and obedience play a part that one should be careful to diminish as unecessary for Salvation. Your premise that the Scriptures I cited were only for Jewish Christians doesn't hold much water- with that logic we may as well do away with the 10 commandments and only adhere to the 4 instructions James gives gentiles at the Jerusalem Council recorded in Acts Chapter 15. How do believe one is Saved?
@joshlc27 Although I would agree with you concerning the Royal Law of God the ten commandments, I am reminded of what was said in Eph 2 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
All men who are not saved will be judged by the perfect Law of Moses. All 617 ordinances due to the fact that they have not plead Christ or the cross
By identifying you are a sinner, to confess Christ as Lord and Savior, to ask for forgiveness for your sins, to ask him to come into your life. At this point you are saved
After that it is important to repent from past sins, take the first step of obedience and get baptized, Follow the Apostles creed of Acts 2:42, (fellowship, breaking of bread, sound doctrine, prayer) but these things have to do with your walk with Christ and not getting saved
@AlYassou3Rabbi Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
@AlYassou3Rabbi The Bible denies that Sola Scriptura is sufficient as the complete rule of faith. Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). He instructs us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15). In II Tim 3:16-17 Paul is referring to the OT, the NT wasn't even written yet-- Did he mean the OT is sufficient. Read it in context
@joshlc27 Thats funny because it is the very idea of oral tradition that Christ had with the Pharisees, I wonder how he would look at the way tradition was handled in the early chruch, especially when the author and finisher of our faith, and in that book hw states clearly that he would magnify his word above his very name, yet you state that it denies Sola Scriptura
Even Christ himself referred to the book as the holy scriptures
Christ who created the world cannot control his own canon?
@AlYassou3Rabbi you suggest Christ's word is only written. Remember Faith commeth by hearing the word of God-- The spoken, proclaimed, Gospel of the Lord was the oral tradition of the early Church. You believe "Scripture only" but perhaps you should consider becoming Sola Dei Vebum-- "God's word only". And how is God's word preserved, through the Scriptures and through the traditional doctrine, the Church's tradition of rightly dividing and teaching Scripture
@joshlc27 I believe it is "only Gods word" because it is recorded in both testaments as "lo, I come in the volume of the book, it is written of me..."
Even the words of the ass in the OT are in reality, the words of God. To believe anything else opens the door to conjecture to what God really desired.
It opens the book, God, Christ, the Apostles, prophets, etc to attack.
What is the first thing Satan is recorde as saying, "Yea hath God said, but..."
@AlYassou3Rabbi Bible says, God has spoken through the prophets, meaning his word was traditionally and orally delivered to the people. God's commandments were commandments even when they ceased to be written down (Mosses smashes them to pieces). The Ethiopian was reading Isaiah, and sola scriptura wasn't enough, he needed someone to teach him and help him understand. (Acts 8:26-40).
@joshlc27 But the fine point is this, when we had no book, we required prophets to propogate the message, but as it is put in the bible, "when that which is perfect has come, that which is in part (prophecy, oral tradition) shall be done away with.
There is no need for oral tradition today, because we have the perfect council of Gods word.
@AlYassou3Rabbi You have taken I Cor. ch. 13 out of context. The imperfect item here is "prophecy"-- prophecy disapears... not oral tradition-- Prophecy spoken and written are only a poor reflection as in a mirror. Think how real the imagery in Revelaiton will be when it is experienced rather than merely read from a page or heard in a seromon.
@joshlc27 The Church has not always been correct in its teachings. I will remind you that in the past the Church made it a crime punishable by death for anyone outside of the Church to possess a bible in the romantic language.
I am pretty sure that after 20 plus years of reading and studying the bible, that this goes directly against what is taught.
How can I study to shew myself approved unto God, if it is a crime to study????
@joshlc27 I had to Google it, "Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should not be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books." - The Church Council of Toulouse 1229 AD Source: Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Scolar Press, London, England copyright 1980 by Edward Peters, ISBN 0-85967-621-8, pp. 194-195
@AlYassou3Rabbi Yes, the catholic cult tortured and murdered millions, many for daring to OWN a Bible in their own language. There is still a cannon law prohibiting Bibles not approved by the vatican. This was renewed in the mid 1980's.
@AlYassou3Rabbi we all have to face it, neither you, nor I, WE cannot argue Sola Scriptura with the Bible-- and it's because it's not in there. I tried, and so have others, but at the end of the day, we have relied on the judgements of Faithful men appointed by God, just as the early Church does at the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15. You can't give me 1 verse that brings Validity to it
Btw, Paul and Peter traveled to Rome-- Read Foxes Book of Martyrs-- Peter was killed by Nero Caesar in Rome.
Incorrect, read the Gospel, you are Peter (Cephas) and on this Rock, I will build my Church. Before you go on arguing that Petros means small stone, let us consider that Jesus spoke Aramic and not Greek which contains only one word for Rock-- Cephas. Matthew would never attribute a feminine Greek noun to name Peter... i.e. Petra fm instead was replaced with the masculine Petros. The play on words works far better with Aramaic, and has worked for over 2,000 years of Church Teaching.
@joshlc27 Christ is the rock that the church is built upon,
Even Peter refers to Christ as the living rock
Peter being the rock is a Catholic teaching that was reformed by Luther :o)
Peter never made it to Rome, that was Pauls area, Peter went with James and John to deliver a message to the circumcision (Jews), and we know that you would find the majority of Jews in Rome ?????
If only people would not be 'fundamentalist' and actually read the Bible and apply what it says to their lives. Jesus is love. We should look to heaven and not hell. And focus on our own denomination and live a life of love and charity. Faith and works go together, but the former comes first. It's not rocket science surely? Nothing is possible without faith in christ, it's all grace.
The bible says that salvation is through faith. 1. realize that you are a sinner that needs a savior. 2. understand that Jesus died and rose again for our sins. 3. Accept that free gift by believing. 4. live by faith.
Catholic doctrine on salvation contradicts the bible.
Official Catholic theology - Baptism is necessary for salvation. Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation except-Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, those too may achieve eternal salvation.
@3161029 you said "Official Catholic theology - Baptism is necessary for salvation. " are you saying that's not true ? Can you enlighten us of another means of salvation from the Scripture ? Give us Scripture which tells you of an alternative to Baptism for salvation. You then mention 1,2,3,4... Amen. Show us an official catholic teaching which opposes these... not what you think opposes that but the Church actually opposes.
@MrJamesthecatholic Why is it only Peter who claims that baptism saves? Why did Paul teach otherwise? Paul stated in that he was sent to preach Christ, and not baptism. He tells us that he baptized only a few Jews, then goes on to name them.
What is Peters role of office that he was given in the early church? I will give you a hint, you can find it in Galatians 2:7-9
Peter is the Apostle to the Jews, and his message of baptism is a Jewish message. Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles
@AlYassou3Rabbi Great question- In addition to Peter, Jesus not only modeled baptism in the Gospels, he commanded Baptism at the end of the Gospel of Matthew. Further more, Jesus said that in order to be saved, one must be born again (Jn 3:3). Nicodemus asked how this can be, "Surely a man cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born"- Then Jesus answers in (Jn 3:5) "I tell the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of WATER and the Spirit."
@joshlc27 So youre saying that Paul had no converts? because Paul stated, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect" and "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; and I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.."
Are you telling me Paul only had a few Jews as converts?
@AlYassou3Rabbi Read Romans Chapter 6. You'll see that early in the Chapter the Apostle to the Gentiles speaks of Baptism in verses 3-5 quite candidly, and in Colossions 2:12-13, and in Titus 3:5-6, again in addition to Christ's very own words in Mark 16:15-16. It's important also to consider that from the very on set, or Christianity baptism was viewed and taught in this way. Again we ought to consider Paul's words "What you have heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching" II Tim 1:13
@joshlc27 What is your take on enfant baptism then?
The Titus reference you gave is regeneration thru his blood unless you are inferring that he shed water as verse 6 states. "he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour"
With 2Tim 1:13 "hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me" and then take Pauls words in Eph when he tells us "by grace are ye saved through faith; Not of works
@AlYassou3Rabbi The passage is referring to water, just as Christ referred to it, in the Gospel of John during his discourse with Nicodemus on being born again of Spirit and water. Titus reads "he saved us through the 'washing' of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.. and the word 'shed' is incorrect, the word pour is used in reference to the Holy Spirit v6 "whom he poured out on us gernerously"
Original sin & the concepts for Inf. Baptism are in Romans chapter 5.
Baptism is a work, an outward showing of faith, the first step of obedience AFTER salvation. God cannot dwell in sin, and the portion of the Godhead which dwells in us is the Holy Ghost. This takes place after "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:"
@AlYassou3Rabbi When this passage is read in context, it becomes clear that Paul was not questioning Peter’s teaching, but was admonishing him for failing to practice what he preached. Peter knew full well that Jews are saved in the different manner as the Gentiles, but by leaving table fellowship with the Gentiles, Peter’s actions were hypocritical. For this reason, Paul opposed him to his face, for by his actions he was "not straightforward about the truth of the gospel" (Gal. 2:14).
@joshlc27 Paul is clearly the Apostle to the uncircumcision (Gentile) while Peter is clearly the Apostle to the cicumcision (Jew)
7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
@joshlc27 Who went with Paul to the Gentiles? Banabas/
Who went to the Jews with Peter? James and John
9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Now read James 1:1. Who is James addressing his letter to?
@AlYassou3Rabbi slow down pal lol, but the traditional and historical hermaneutics has always stood as Peter being the Rock on whom Christ would build his Church. Saying otherwise is quite foolish, and is probably based off of scholarship less than 300 years old. Peter and Paul nor any of the other fathers believed contrary. Furthermore, I thought we were talking about baptism? You keep asking about who James is addressing--Who was Jesus adressing? Nicodemus who asked how one can be saved ;)
@joshlc27 We are discussing baptism. Baptism is a work. Baptism is something that you are required to do physically. Paul states that salvation is of faith, and not of works.
Do you see where this is going?
Who is Peter addressing in Acts 2? Who is being addressed in Acts 10?
Question! In your opinion is there salvation outside of the Catholic Church?
@AlYassou3Rabbi The Church never states anything contrary to the fact that Grace, and Faith, are gifts from God. But you need to consider the rest of the passage you cited. Yes Eph 2:8 and 9 are wonderful, but you need to read verse 10.Typically Evangelicals believe salvation is obained through a prayer of faith, to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. While Christ needs to be Lord and Savior, this process described as the sinner's "prayer" which would be a "work" isn't found in the Bible.
@joshlc27 Did you forget this little tid bit in Romans 10, ; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Where is baptism in that portion of scripture?
James is addressing the 12 tribes... why? ...because James, Cephas and John went to the circumcision.
@AlYassou3Rabbi Again Romans 10:9 is one of my favorite versus! awesome! But consider that the theif on the Cross only confesses this, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." No place mentions this man's belief that Christ will have been ressurrected. So is Paul contradicting Christ's power play of gace at the crucifixion.. If he is not, then perhaps he is not contradicting Christ's words in John conerning baptism, concerning eating his flesh and drinking his blood to live forever
@joshlc27 On the cross, Christ is still alive, so the Kingdom Message that he was preaching, "receive me as your king" was still in effect. It does not end until he dies, and is raised from the dead, at which point there is a new testament, the testator has died, there is a new dispensation from Law to Grace.
What does the thief on the cross say, he identifies Christ as king, for he says, remember me when you come into your kingdom
I hope this is not a prelude to a chat on communion :O)
@AlYassou3Rabbi Even your method for salvation is a work of human effort; human petition, human request, human acknowledgment-- Without these, your process of salvation becomes non-existant by your reckoning, and existant by the Catholic Church's.
@joshlc27 I cannot accept that Paul would be contradicting Christs message in any way, because the bible records that upon conversion Paul immediately did not confer with flesh and blood, so, the message can only be Christs message
I think there is stuff in the NT that is meant for Gentiles, and for Jews, then there are universal teachings that are meant for both
That is why we are commaned to rightly divide and to study it out.
@AlYassou3Rabbi that would mean If one is Jewish, his Salvation plan is A, if Gentile, then plan B. Salvation. Remember, dispensation theology can cause issues-- Either Jesus is the only way, or his isn't. To say he wasn't and now is weakens his words in John ch. 14
@joshlc27 In Acts 2 Peter is speaking to devout Jews and tells them, 1 repent, 2 get baptized 3 receive the Holy Ghost, yet in Acts 10 when the Gentiles finally come into the fold, we see that 1 believe 2 receive the Holy Ghost 3 get baptized.
I see two different orders to coming into one body. So yes, although I am not a hyper-dispie, I do see the rational in this teaching. A & B.
@AlYassou3Rabbi The Church teachings that Salvation is through Christ. It also teaches that this Salvation through Christ isn't by faith ALONE- but rather "Faith and Follow-through" as the vs immediately following the one you cited states v10"For we are God's craftsmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works." James 2:17"In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." Philippians 2:12 "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling."Mt 7:13-23, 15:8-9,
@joshlc27 You must realize by now that you are speaking to a "Sola Fide" "Sola Scriptura" Prodestant.
Youre reaching with your Phil verse.
If we are going to discuss salvation in this current dispensation, lets discuss grace. Anything prior to Christ dying on the cross and being raised the 3rd day is under Old Testament ordinances. No need to quote Matt to make your point of by works, The Law was a works based religion.
@AlYassou3Rabbi Scritpure only is unbiblical, and furthermore while it sounds innocent, it's roots are rebellious, as the words of Christ, the words and leadership of his apostalic Church, the Gospel, yes it all was around long before it was cannonized in the 4th century. Consider that Paul's letter to Timothy (II Tim3:16) wasn't even considered Scripture until the aforementioned time. It's no wonder Protestant faiths have little consensus in interpreting Scripture. 5 Churches=5 different views
@AlYassou3Rabbi It's important to keep in mind what the RCC means by tradition. The term does not refer to legends or mythological accounts, nor does it encompass customs or practices which may change, as circumstances warrant, such as styles of priestly dress, particular forms of devotion to saints, or even liturgical rubrics. Sacred or apostolic tradition consists of the teachings that the apostles passed on orally through their preaching.
@AlYassou3Rabbi While this was a sin on Peter’s behalf, it does not infringe upon the gift of infallibility. After all, the Holy Spirit still used him to infallibly write two books of inerrant Scripture. By mentioning this, it is useful to draw a parallel between the inspiration of Scripture and the infallibility of the Church. While they are distinct, the fact that all Protestants accept the inerrancy of Scripture can help them see how Catholics can accept Infallbility as well.
@joshlc27 You do realize that in the ENTIRE council of Gods word, It is Jesus Christ who is reffered to as the ROCK and not Peter, correct?
Can you post the scriptures from the bible on how the Apostles and disciples were infallable? All scripture in my book is based upon the law, the psalms and the prophets, as Christ himself aptly put it in Luke 24:44.
All 66 books of the bible profess Christ and reference the law, the pslams and the prophets.
Priest- God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
Response- Amen.
JRMAN65 That is the last baptismal promise in the Catholic Faith.. I believe i just shut your "false" down!! haha sorry but you may love Christ but you are seriously confused about Christ's Church..
actually that is perfectly true.. and although we do not teach of a one time moment where we proclaim Jesus as Lord and Savior, every week at mass we take Communion and proclaim without it (since it applies the perpetual sacrifice of calvary to us) it is impossible for us to be saved..... hate to be a prick but that sounds like surrenduring to Jesus Christ... EVERY WEEK haha so something for you to ponder :) Christ be with you always
My testimony of spiritual birth: raised cath, one sun. sitting in a cath.church w/ no preaching but instrumental music playing, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, tears rolling down my cheeks, my right hand moving by itself, heart beating, i felt heaven, i can't describe, awsome! from that moment, i went from religion to relationship w/ the Lord. i began to praise& worship him, & talk to him, and read bible,& go to church more. i did not fully understand "Born again" till after i read John chapt 3
"Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? [Y]e made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites."
kiwichristian2009, you have no idea what you are speaking about. Oral tradition was the only way to teach the first Christians because there was NO bible.
salvation comes from our baptism and relationship with God post baptism. Though we lose our salvation if we commit a mortal sin that ends our relationship with God. Rejecting our baptismal promises is a Mortal sin as well. ( and for the fundametals out there.. One of the baptismal promises includes accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. )
@JRMAN65 Priest- God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
Response- Amen.
JRMAN65 That is the last baptismal promise in the Catholic Faith.. I believe i just shut your "false" down!! haha sorry but you may love Christ but you are seriously confused about Christ's Church..
jetboy33: You are wrong!!!! Times are the same. If Jesus appeared at the door of most priests homes, they wouldn't recognise him as being the Son of God because he would not be wearing expensive looking robes and coverings, he would more than likely look like a homeless man.
OK 1962...Off the mark, I'm ready to call you an anti-Semite, but I'll hold off a sec. I'm sure you realize Jesus was born a Jew. That half our Bible is Jewish. Not to mention, the Catholic Church enjoys a rich and happy relationship with Judaism. So often, we refer to many laws and traditions as "Judeo-Christian" (Really, Catholic specifically). Were the Jewish elite during Christ's time against Him? Sure. Times aren't the same now as then. Tell me if I'm wrong...
Thanks again for your intelligently put reply, 1962...religious disagreements have a habit of becoming nasty a lot...this hasn't. Yes, I'm aware that the Pope is only infallible in matters of Church doctrine. Don't you consider Vatican II to be the result of such doctrine? Jesus did tell us that His church would prevail against "the gates of Hell" always...so I'm lost on the concept of current Popes "serving satan".
Thank you for your thoughtful reply, 1962...Yes, after I sent last message, I did remember Traditionalist do still fall under Rome. Admittedly, I'm not as educated on Traditionalists as I'd like to be. You've helped. What I don't understand is believing, say, Benedict is serving satan? And don't you believe Christs Church is infallible, and has been, for the last 2000 years?
You're serious? I know in my heart that the Holy Roman Catholic Church is THE one true faith. And it's not run by Satan. Your splint isn't either. You're just sorely misinformed. I pray, as most RC Catholics do, that one day Traditionalists and all the Protestant faiths will one day return to the mother church. Peace.
As a Roman Catholic myself, I tell ya, I've never quite understood you Traditionalist Catholics who see Vatican II as a heresy. If Christ gave His Church infallibility, how can Vatican II be fallible?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I belive people will be turn away from the the Catholic Church it has so many pagon objects and ways i have been reading .Seams to be alot of people talking on you tube about it .
Yes, its interesting seeing them defend non scrptural teachings with scripture. Especially since they cast doubt on the reliability of scripture as a whole.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified
Every believer is already sanctified in God's view. Every believer is a new creature in which the Holy Spirit dwells forever. Thus we have the presence of God with us always whether we are taking communion or not. This is the wonderful privilege given us in grace since Christ died for our sins. Certainly, we are able, by that grace to experience it more deeply as we progress in our understanding of that grace.
One offering forever...apparently THAT isn't literal in their minds...they're very selective. If it supports their doctrine, it's literal, if it doesn't they devise some mystical explanation...(all are mother, brother, sister, for example.)
Regardless of the sincerity of those who take Christ's words another way, there can be no doubt that He said, "Do this in rememberance of Me." Paul said that whoever took communion in the proper manner remembered, and showed forth the death of Christ until He comes again." So the two teachings on the blood here in view are not the same. One is trusting Christ's sacrifice to receive life the other is to remember the One who made it all possible by His death.
So "eating Christ's flesh and drinking His blood", the only means of salvation according to Christ, must mean trusting Christ's death on the cross for salvation.
It's certain the thief never took communion or was baptized. He never took communion. So those who take communion believing that such an act saves them are incorrect. Communion is to be done in rememberance of Him. .
The act in itself does not save anyone. Believing that Christ's sacrifice, and taking part in it as He said does. The Church teaches Christs one sacrifice on the cross is what takes away our sins. Thats why we say that the sacrifice of the Mass is the very same sacrifice as that of the cross. If the Mass were not the same as the cross, it could never take away sins.
Thus the words 'memory' & remembrance have a deeper meaning than merely remembering. Knowing history becomes important.
When Jesus celebrated Passover, His disciples were Jewish, knowing full well what memory meant at the Passover Seder. It is not simply remembering. For the Jewish people,collective memory flows through ritual and recital.Not only does the injunction zakhor (remember or memory) appear many times in the Hebrew Bible, but the Israelite nation is also instructed there not to forget. The English translation of the word zakhor as 'remember', is too small in scope as the word implies a level of action.
The entire Seder is a symbolic reenactment of a historical moment. In fact, one of the central dictums of the Seder, 'in each and every generation let each person regard him- or herself as though they had emerged from Egypt,' enforces the fusion of past and present. Thus the participants of the Seder were to consider that they were there with their ancestors as they fled from Egypt. They are not repeating the act: they are there with them. This is an important concept.
Since Jesus and the Apostles were Jewish it is reasonable that this is what the Apostles believed when Jesus uttered those words 'do this in memory of me'. Each time they would do this the barriers of time would fall and they would be once again in the Upper Room with the Master. This is what happens today during the Mass. We are not 're-sacrificing'. We are with Jesus, just as His apostles understood it as Jews. A new 'seder' was created. Thus we are acknowledging His sacrifice.
Clement(80 A.D.) in his letter to the Corinthians 36:1 refers to the Eucharist as the offering of the gift. "He commanded us to celebrate sacrifices and services, and that it should not be thoughtlessly or disorderly, but at fixed times and hours. He has Himself fixed by His supreme will the places and persons whom He desires for these celebrations".
"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God ... They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again."
"For we do not take these things (Body & Blood of Christ) as ordinary bread or ordinary drink. Just as our Savior Jesus Christ was made flesh by the word of God and took on flesh and blood for our salvation, so also were we taught that the food, for which thanksgiving has been made through the word of prayer instituted by him, and from which our blood and flesh are nourished after the change, is the flesh of that Jesus who was made flesh"
First of all, my personal apologies to you and anyone else who has been reading along. I am afraid that my zeal for the things I believe have led me to say things in a manner very unChristian. Hitherto, I intend to share my views in a far less aggresive manner. It's far more conducieve to learning to approach one another with civility and love rather than seeking to one-up each other with our beliefs. Yet I in no way abandon the Scripture as the true authority in all things spiritual.
Zealousness can at times over take the intent. And I share this guilt with you. Civility is always important, particlarly when much of our perspective is derived from our own life journey, with achingly personal life experices. We should not tell our fellow traveller "you are wrong" as it merely invalidates those same experiences. And yet they cannot be invalid because they are his or hers. All anyone of us can do is share our experiences, without judgement, but with respect and brotherhood.
I agree and thank you. Although I obviously hold different convictions than the teachings of the Catholic Church, I am certain that many Catholics have experienced saving faith in Jesus Christ. I believe that such faith is the deciding factor and so believe that many that bear the name Baptist very well may be lost. It's not the denomination but the personal relying on our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ that makes all the difference.
You have finally crawled out from under your rock. It is ironic that most Catholics are not afraidd to stand up for our faith You, on the other hand seem to have much to hide.
Your buffet of faith is based on what is pleasing to you, flittering from one to another. But most importantly, it is based on what you hate of the Catholic Church. Never, never have I attended a catholic service in which other faiths are mentioned, let alone denigrated. I cannot say the same for you and your ilk.
I thought you knew Catholic history. Also, it is the official doctrine of the Catholic Church that all non-Catholics will burn in Hell. True or not true?
Better check that one. Several official dogma sites of the Catholic Church teach otherwise. "1.Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation." Youtube doesn't allow web sites to be posted or I would.
"Perhaps you should just keep watching those alien videos you favourited on your site...they seem to make more sense than you."
You are deluded. Since all I have favourited are Catholic videos...none of which attack other faiths I may add...I can only conclude you are a sycophant of Alexander Hislop.
You have yet to answer any of my points. Obfuscation of the issue will not work. Your base is made of sand and nothing more.
MAPOLLO:" You need to revert to ad hominums instead of dealing with issue, suggesting your intent is less than honorable".
Recognize those words? They are yours and as I looked at your responses to others on here, I see that you have fulfilled them many times. And you a Franconian who is supposed to spread peace etc! BTW, care to go into their troubled history while claiming Catholic "unity"?
BTW, since you brought up the Apostolic sucession thing, how did Paul get to be an Apostle without any interaction with Peter? And how is it that Paul rebuked Peter publicly and Peter supposedly infaliable? And speaking of history, have you seen the history of the Church that came out recently in Ireland? Check the NY times for details.
The catholic church has been murdering and abusing Irish men women and children in Ireland for the last 70 years without hinder from the out side world. The catholic church has been covering up it's horrendous crimes on humanity for the last 300 years. 70 years crimes against humanity in Ireland and I haven't heard one condemnation of this apocalyptic event. The catholic church is the largest and most powerful pedophile ring in the world.
Did Christ "wear out His welcome" too? The world will love it's own. If you really believe that Christ knows more than all, why don't you respond to His teaching?
Are you not in fact one of the blind guides He warned against? Pointing people to everything churchy while ignoring the need of personal faith in Christ crucified.
As a matter of fact, I have been taught by John and so has everyone who believes the Bible is the Word of God. Christ taught from the scriptures and chastised though who did not know it while trying to teach others. The Apostles taught from the OT even as they were compiling the NT. They preached the Gospel with authority and whether their woird was written or spoken it was God's Word as well. We have no present day Apostles but we have their writings and they are present in them. It's enough.
"It's enough" I'll repeat my unanswered questions: Do you greet your brothers & sisters in Christ with a Holy Kiss? Rom 16:16 Do signs following you? Mrk 16:17-20 Did you sell all your belongings and shared everything ? Acts 2:45 Do the Elders come over and anoint the sick with oil & pray for healing? James 5:14 Do you meet with others, everyday ? Acts 2:46 They are all in scripture.
Still avoiding my question ... why don't you admit you don't know? That would then illustrate the humility you seek to browbeat into me.
Now you bring up the Apostles to justify the "fathers" when before you brought up the 'fathers" to refute the Apostles. Amazing. But don't foret the question; I won't.
To refesh you; how did OT saints get into Heaven without "eating and drinking" Christ's flesh and blood?
"how did OT saints get into Heaven without "eating and drinking" Christ's flesh and blood? "
You seem to think that God plays by your rules. That is the height of pride and hypocrisy. There are no constraints for God...something you seem to forget.
Tell me, what do you think the Catholic Church teaches regarding believers before the Resurrection? Tell us what you think you know.
Do you know what another thing us catholics believe? live and let live without judging each otheres faith
CentrePeice 1 month ago
@Tama94jch Our sins cannot be "covered" like a blanket. We must REPENT of them, and be free. "Covering up" our sins is a cop out for it EXCUSES them. "There shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination o r maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb" (Rev 21:27).
We must be made pure either in our lives, or the by the grace of God in purgatory. God Bless.
drdst17 3 months ago
we must become Catholics. Only Jesus saves! new age is mostly just heresy and stupidity. only jesus saves.
henrikhankhagnell 7 months ago
If we had to work out our own salvation we would all end up in hell. The Bible states in the book of Romans that there is not one who is righteous, not one. No matter how many good works we do we are still sinners. The Bible says that the heart is desperately wicked. It just takes one sin to sentence us to hell. It only took one sin for Adam and Eve and God said they shall die. God sent his Son to save us. His death paid our penalty for sin. Believe on Him and be saved.
MsOliveLeaf 10 months ago
Catholics can believe in evolution, this is CONTRARY to what the Bible says. Catholics believe mary was sinless, this is CONTRARY to what the Bible says. the catholic organisation has a history of torturing and murdering MILLIONS of innocent Christians and people that did not agree with it, this is CONTRARY to the Bible. Catholics can steal up to $30 without confessing.this is CONTRARY to the Bible.Catholics believe mary remained a virgin. This is CONTRARY to the bible.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 .Catholics believe mary remained a virgin...This is our belief....The bible as studied over many years teaches us that Mary remained a virgin., and it is also what the first Christians believed. Think about it, Mary lived with Jesus, whom she knew was the Son of God, and watched him grow and then suffer and die for us. She lived her life as Jesus lived His life, for God.
stevesilvia 1 year ago
@stevesilvia Hello, my friend. Long time no see/debate! :). I know that is what catholics believe. I attest that there is no Biblical foundation for marys continual virginity. We will have to agree to disagree on that one. However, a more important question is this. The rcc infallibly stated that there is NO salvation outside the catholic church. I hear now that catholics believe that anyone can be saved, even if they have never heard of Jesus Christ and just live a good life? Which is true?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 That is definately not a Catholic believe. Some Catholics
may choose to believe that. "cafeteria christians"
curiosity344 1 year ago
@curiosity344 What, that salvation is only in the catholic organisation? "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unan Snactam, 1302). INFALLIBLE PAPAL STATEMENT
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 I say that is is up to God to decide. He probably
believed it.
curiosity344 1 year ago
@curiosity344 No, it was an INFALLIBLE pronouncement, not a personal opinion.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 That was MY opinion. I hear you,my friend. That is why I
seperate myself rather than leave the faith. I live by what I can understand.
curiosity344 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Catholic can steal up to $30 without confessing?
Where did you get this from? I never knew that.
curiosity344 1 year ago
@curiosity344 I must admit i can't remember where i read that, so i should not say it until i can find the source.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 I believe you and your friends. Some priests even give
bad advice etc. They are getting what they brought on themselves-the
guilty and the innocent have to deal with it as well
curiosity344 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Don't forget not all Catholics understand the Catholicism
correctly.( no offense to your friend). If your friend thinks it is ok to steal, I'll
leave that between him and God.
curiosity344 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Evolution is not contrary to biblical teachings. Your assertion is ignorant.
AlicepulledAsunder 7 months ago in playlist Catholic Wisdom
# Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who DOES NOT WORK, but believes in Him who JUSTIFIES the ungodly, his faith is RECKONED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,"
I challenge you give me a yes or no answer to this question
Does the man who doesn't work but believes in God (who JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY) have saving faith ?
nofearinlove418 1 year ago
@nofearinlove418, what we believe is that a person who feeds a brother who is hungry, is putting faith into action. Helping those in need is walking the talk... Salvation belongs to God to decide, not us.
stevesilvia 1 year ago
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@stevesilvia
but your doctrine say" the one who DOES NOT WORK, but believes in Him who JUSTIFIES the ungodly, his faith (IS NOT AT ALL) RECKONED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS"
that bible clearly says in laymen terms
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who DOES NOT WORK, but believes in Him who JUSTIFIES the ungodly, his faith IS RECKONED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,"
If i can show you that the Word of God that He has entrusted us teaches Salvation without work
then would you be humble to swallow you pride?
nofearinlove418 1 year ago
Pope Pius IV had a list of the forbidden books compiled
and officially prohibited them in the Index of Trent
(Index Librorum Prohibitorum) of 1559.
This is an excerpt :
"Whoever reads or has such a translation in his
possession... cannot be absolved from his sins
until he has turned in these Bibles
A sin to read the bible??
Anyways, this stuff is out there for you to Google. I am not here to throw mud
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi
For us Catholics, we consider as The Bible what is considered so by the Church.. not some book which Harry down the street prints with the title Bible.
So I cant see how someone who names himself as Rabbi can fail to understand this. Its not a sin to read the Bible, not something that is claimed to be the Bible, thinking thats the Bible... and ofcourse you are here to throw mud.
MrJamesthecatholic 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi There is a current cannon law that forbids the publication of Bibles that have NOT been approved by the vatican. Talk about control/cult!
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
Comment removed
curiosity344 1 year ago
@curiosity344 You were born a Catholic, I chose to become a Christian. You were likely baptized as an infant, which totally disregards both John the Baptists baptism, but also the baptisms that were performed by the Apostles.
Baptism has never saved anyone, other then a Jew. If you go back and reread Acts 2, you will be enlighted as to who Peter was speaking to, and then cross reference that with Gal 2:7-9
You are stealing another mans message. Rev 2:9 is Catholicism.
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
Jesus said you must be born of water and of Spirit-- thus your citation of Acts 10 doesn't prove anyting. Read John chapter 3:3-5 You must be born again (born of water and the Spirit). Both are present in Acts 10.
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 I will remind you that the Gentiles had already received the Holy Ghost prior to being baptized.
The Holy Ghost is the portion of the Godhead that indwells us, and since God cannot reside in sin, the only way that the person could be indwelled is if, THEY WERE SAVED.
Regeneration means renewal. It is the blood that regenerates us. Christ did not shed water on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.
Say what you like, but those Gentile believers of Acts trump your assumption
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi Precisely why I quote Jesus when he says you must be born of water, and of the (Holy Spirit)... and he did shed water on the Cross-- remember that he took a spear to his side-- "and blood and water flowed".
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 Oh man, your really reaching on that one. :o)
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
Do not forget what Matthew says in Chapter 15 verse 21-
Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Your sinners prayer formula isn't biblical.
joshlc27 1 year ago
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi Please don't misunderstand me, It is by Christ's Grace that we are saved, and baptism and obedience play a part that one should be careful to diminish as unecessary for Salvation. Your premise that the Scriptures I cited were only for Jewish Christians doesn't hold much water- with that logic we may as well do away with the 10 commandments and only adhere to the 4 instructions James gives gentiles at the Jerusalem Council recorded in Acts Chapter 15. How do believe one is Saved?
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 Although I would agree with you concerning the Royal Law of God the ten commandments, I am reminded of what was said in Eph 2 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
All men who are not saved will be judged by the perfect Law of Moses. All 617 ordinances due to the fact that they have not plead Christ or the cross
Paul addresses this in Acts 21:25
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@joshlc27 How do I believe one is saved?
By identifying you are a sinner, to confess Christ as Lord and Savior, to ask for forgiveness for your sins, to ask him to come into your life. At this point you are saved
After that it is important to repent from past sins, take the first step of obedience and get baptized, Follow the Apostles creed of Acts 2:42, (fellowship, breaking of bread, sound doctrine, prayer) but these things have to do with your walk with Christ and not getting saved
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
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@AlYassou3Rabbi Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi The Bible denies that Sola Scriptura is sufficient as the complete rule of faith. Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). He instructs us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15). In II Tim 3:16-17 Paul is referring to the OT, the NT wasn't even written yet-- Did he mean the OT is sufficient. Read it in context
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 Thats funny because it is the very idea of oral tradition that Christ had with the Pharisees, I wonder how he would look at the way tradition was handled in the early chruch, especially when the author and finisher of our faith, and in that book hw states clearly that he would magnify his word above his very name, yet you state that it denies Sola Scriptura
Even Christ himself referred to the book as the holy scriptures
Christ who created the world cannot control his own canon?
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi you suggest Christ's word is only written. Remember Faith commeth by hearing the word of God-- The spoken, proclaimed, Gospel of the Lord was the oral tradition of the early Church. You believe "Scripture only" but perhaps you should consider becoming Sola Dei Vebum-- "God's word only". And how is God's word preserved, through the Scriptures and through the traditional doctrine, the Church's tradition of rightly dividing and teaching Scripture
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 I believe it is "only Gods word" because it is recorded in both testaments as "lo, I come in the volume of the book, it is written of me..."
Even the words of the ass in the OT are in reality, the words of God. To believe anything else opens the door to conjecture to what God really desired.
It opens the book, God, Christ, the Apostles, prophets, etc to attack.
What is the first thing Satan is recorde as saying, "Yea hath God said, but..."
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi Bible says, God has spoken through the prophets, meaning his word was traditionally and orally delivered to the people. God's commandments were commandments even when they ceased to be written down (Mosses smashes them to pieces). The Ethiopian was reading Isaiah, and sola scriptura wasn't enough, he needed someone to teach him and help him understand. (Acts 8:26-40).
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 But the fine point is this, when we had no book, we required prophets to propogate the message, but as it is put in the bible, "when that which is perfect has come, that which is in part (prophecy, oral tradition) shall be done away with.
There is no need for oral tradition today, because we have the perfect council of Gods word.
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi You have taken I Cor. ch. 13 out of context. The imperfect item here is "prophecy"-- prophecy disapears... not oral tradition-- Prophecy spoken and written are only a poor reflection as in a mirror. Think how real the imagery in Revelaiton will be when it is experienced rather than merely read from a page or heard in a seromon.
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 The Church has not always been correct in its teachings. I will remind you that in the past the Church made it a crime punishable by death for anyone outside of the Church to possess a bible in the romantic language.
I am pretty sure that after 20 plus years of reading and studying the bible, that this goes directly against what is taught.
How can I study to shew myself approved unto God, if it is a crime to study????
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi can you give me a citation for that information-- I'll have to get back to you on that brother ;)
joshlc27 1 year ago
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi Yes, the catholic cult tortured and murdered millions, many for daring to OWN a Bible in their own language. There is still a cannon law prohibiting Bibles not approved by the vatican. This was renewed in the mid 1980's.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@joshlc27 The Council of Tarragona of 1234,
in its second canon, ruled that:
"No one may possess the books of the Old
and New Testaments, and if anyone possesses
them he must turn them over to the local bishop
within eight days, so that they may be burned..."
- The Church Council of Tarragona 1234 AD;
2nd Cannon - Source : D. Lortsch,
Historie de la Bible en France, 1910, p.14.
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi we all have to face it, neither you, nor I, WE cannot argue Sola Scriptura with the Bible-- and it's because it's not in there. I tried, and so have others, but at the end of the day, we have relied on the judgements of Faithful men appointed by God, just as the early Church does at the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15. You can't give me 1 verse that brings Validity to it
Btw, Paul and Peter traveled to Rome-- Read Foxes Book of Martyrs-- Peter was killed by Nero Caesar in Rome.
joshlc27 1 year ago
Incorrect, read the Gospel, you are Peter (Cephas) and on this Rock, I will build my Church. Before you go on arguing that Petros means small stone, let us consider that Jesus spoke Aramic and not Greek which contains only one word for Rock-- Cephas. Matthew would never attribute a feminine Greek noun to name Peter... i.e. Petra fm instead was replaced with the masculine Petros. The play on words works far better with Aramaic, and has worked for over 2,000 years of Church Teaching.
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 Christ is the rock that the church is built upon,
Even Peter refers to Christ as the living rock
Peter being the rock is a Catholic teaching that was reformed by Luther :o)
Peter never made it to Rome, that was Pauls area, Peter went with James and John to deliver a message to the circumcision (Jews), and we know that you would find the majority of Jews in Rome ?????
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
If only people would not be 'fundamentalist' and actually read the Bible and apply what it says to their lives. Jesus is love. We should look to heaven and not hell. And focus on our own denomination and live a life of love and charity. Faith and works go together, but the former comes first. It's not rocket science surely? Nothing is possible without faith in christ, it's all grace.
modomnoc1 1 year ago
The bible says that salvation is through faith. 1. realize that you are a sinner that needs a savior. 2. understand that Jesus died and rose again for our sins. 3. Accept that free gift by believing. 4. live by faith.
3161029 1 year ago
Catholic doctrine on salvation contradicts the bible.
Official Catholic theology - Baptism is necessary for salvation. Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation except-Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, those too may achieve eternal salvation.
next..
3161029 1 year ago
@3161029 you said "Official Catholic theology - Baptism is necessary for salvation. " are you saying that's not true ? Can you enlighten us of another means of salvation from the Scripture ? Give us Scripture which tells you of an alternative to Baptism for salvation. You then mention 1,2,3,4... Amen. Show us an official catholic teaching which opposes these... not what you think opposes that but the Church actually opposes.
MrJamesthecatholic 1 year ago
@MrJamesthecatholic Why is it only Peter who claims that baptism saves? Why did Paul teach otherwise? Paul stated in that he was sent to preach Christ, and not baptism. He tells us that he baptized only a few Jews, then goes on to name them.
What is Peters role of office that he was given in the early church? I will give you a hint, you can find it in Galatians 2:7-9
Peter is the Apostle to the Jews, and his message of baptism is a Jewish message. Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@MrJamesthecatholic What does Paul teach concerning salvation to the Gentiles.
You can look to the comment supplied by 3161029 for your answer, and not to Peter who was speaking to Jews.
Learn how to divide scripture properly.
2TIM2:15 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The bible supplies all the answers to your questions concerning baptism saving you, which of course, it does not.
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
Comment removed
joshlc27 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi Great question- In addition to Peter, Jesus not only modeled baptism in the Gospels, he commanded Baptism at the end of the Gospel of Matthew. Further more, Jesus said that in order to be saved, one must be born again (Jn 3:3). Nicodemus asked how this can be, "Surely a man cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born"- Then Jesus answers in (Jn 3:5) "I tell the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of WATER and the Spirit."
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 So youre saying that Paul had no converts? because Paul stated, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect" and "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; and I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.."
Are you telling me Paul only had a few Jews as converts?
Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles, correct?
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi Read Romans Chapter 6. You'll see that early in the Chapter the Apostle to the Gentiles speaks of Baptism in verses 3-5 quite candidly, and in Colossions 2:12-13, and in Titus 3:5-6, again in addition to Christ's very own words in Mark 16:15-16. It's important also to consider that from the very on set, or Christianity baptism was viewed and taught in this way. Again we ought to consider Paul's words "What you have heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching" II Tim 1:13
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 What is your take on enfant baptism then?
The Titus reference you gave is regeneration thru his blood unless you are inferring that he shed water as verse 6 states. "he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour"
With 2Tim 1:13 "hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me" and then take Pauls words in Eph when he tells us "by grace are ye saved through faith; Not of works
Wouldnt you consider baptism a work?
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi The passage is referring to water, just as Christ referred to it, in the Gospel of John during his discourse with Nicodemus on being born again of Spirit and water. Titus reads "he saved us through the 'washing' of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.. and the word 'shed' is incorrect, the word pour is used in reference to the Holy Spirit v6 "whom he poured out on us gernerously"
Original sin & the concepts for Inf. Baptism are in Romans chapter 5.
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 It might be poured out in your bible, but in mine, the good ole King Jimmy, the word used is shed.
You wouldnt be correcting the bible would you?
I dont see the word baptize in John 3:16
In the book of Acts 10:47, Paul tells us that the Gentile converts had received the Holy Ghost before baptism.. hmmm
The Ethopian Eunich received salvation before he was baptized. hmmm
You never replied to enfant baptism nor Gal 2:7-9 nor who it was that James was written too. hmmm
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@joshlc27 cont
Baptism is a work, an outward showing of faith, the first step of obedience AFTER salvation. God cannot dwell in sin, and the portion of the Godhead which dwells in us is the Holy Ghost. This takes place after "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:"
No mention of baptism there,
Now you can quote James :o)
James is speaking to whom? Gal 2:7-9 !!!
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi When this passage is read in context, it becomes clear that Paul was not questioning Peter’s teaching, but was admonishing him for failing to practice what he preached. Peter knew full well that Jews are saved in the different manner as the Gentiles, but by leaving table fellowship with the Gentiles, Peter’s actions were hypocritical. For this reason, Paul opposed him to his face, for by his actions he was "not straightforward about the truth of the gospel" (Gal. 2:14).
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 Paul is clearly the Apostle to the uncircumcision (Gentile) while Peter is clearly the Apostle to the cicumcision (Jew)
7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@joshlc27 Who went with Paul to the Gentiles? Banabas/
Who went to the Jews with Peter? James and John
9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Now read James 1:1. Who is James addressing his letter to?
Who is Peter speaking to?
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi slow down pal lol, but the traditional and historical hermaneutics has always stood as Peter being the Rock on whom Christ would build his Church. Saying otherwise is quite foolish, and is probably based off of scholarship less than 300 years old. Peter and Paul nor any of the other fathers believed contrary. Furthermore, I thought we were talking about baptism? You keep asking about who James is addressing--Who was Jesus adressing? Nicodemus who asked how one can be saved ;)
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 We are discussing baptism. Baptism is a work. Baptism is something that you are required to do physically. Paul states that salvation is of faith, and not of works.
Do you see where this is going?
Who is Peter addressing in Acts 2? Who is being addressed in Acts 10?
Question! In your opinion is there salvation outside of the Catholic Church?
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi The Church never states anything contrary to the fact that Grace, and Faith, are gifts from God. But you need to consider the rest of the passage you cited. Yes Eph 2:8 and 9 are wonderful, but you need to read verse 10.Typically Evangelicals believe salvation is obained through a prayer of faith, to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. While Christ needs to be Lord and Savior, this process described as the sinner's "prayer" which would be a "work" isn't found in the Bible.
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 Did you forget this little tid bit in Romans 10, ; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Where is baptism in that portion of scripture?
James is addressing the 12 tribes... why? ...because James, Cephas and John went to the circumcision.
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi Again Romans 10:9 is one of my favorite versus! awesome! But consider that the theif on the Cross only confesses this, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." No place mentions this man's belief that Christ will have been ressurrected. So is Paul contradicting Christ's power play of gace at the crucifixion.. If he is not, then perhaps he is not contradicting Christ's words in John conerning baptism, concerning eating his flesh and drinking his blood to live forever
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 On the cross, Christ is still alive, so the Kingdom Message that he was preaching, "receive me as your king" was still in effect. It does not end until he dies, and is raised from the dead, at which point there is a new testament, the testator has died, there is a new dispensation from Law to Grace.
What does the thief on the cross say, he identifies Christ as king, for he says, remember me when you come into your kingdom
I hope this is not a prelude to a chat on communion :O)
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi Even your method for salvation is a work of human effort; human petition, human request, human acknowledgment-- Without these, your process of salvation becomes non-existant by your reckoning, and existant by the Catholic Church's.
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 I cannot accept that Paul would be contradicting Christs message in any way, because the bible records that upon conversion Paul immediately did not confer with flesh and blood, so, the message can only be Christs message
I think there is stuff in the NT that is meant for Gentiles, and for Jews, then there are universal teachings that are meant for both
That is why we are commaned to rightly divide and to study it out.
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi that would mean If one is Jewish, his Salvation plan is A, if Gentile, then plan B. Salvation. Remember, dispensation theology can cause issues-- Either Jesus is the only way, or his isn't. To say he wasn't and now is weakens his words in John ch. 14
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 In Acts 2 Peter is speaking to devout Jews and tells them, 1 repent, 2 get baptized 3 receive the Holy Ghost, yet in Acts 10 when the Gentiles finally come into the fold, we see that 1 believe 2 receive the Holy Ghost 3 get baptized.
I see two different orders to coming into one body. So yes, although I am not a hyper-dispie, I do see the rational in this teaching. A & B.
In the end, Christ is the only way.
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi The Church teachings that Salvation is through Christ. It also teaches that this Salvation through Christ isn't by faith ALONE- but rather "Faith and Follow-through" as the vs immediately following the one you cited states v10"For we are God's craftsmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works." James 2:17"In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." Philippians 2:12 "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling."Mt 7:13-23, 15:8-9,
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 You must realize by now that you are speaking to a "Sola Fide" "Sola Scriptura" Prodestant.
Youre reaching with your Phil verse.
If we are going to discuss salvation in this current dispensation, lets discuss grace. Anything prior to Christ dying on the cross and being raised the 3rd day is under Old Testament ordinances. No need to quote Matt to make your point of by works, The Law was a works based religion.
Read Col 2:14
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi Scritpure only is unbiblical, and furthermore while it sounds innocent, it's roots are rebellious, as the words of Christ, the words and leadership of his apostalic Church, the Gospel, yes it all was around long before it was cannonized in the 4th century. Consider that Paul's letter to Timothy (II Tim3:16) wasn't even considered Scripture until the aforementioned time. It's no wonder Protestant faiths have little consensus in interpreting Scripture. 5 Churches=5 different views
joshlc27 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi It's important to keep in mind what the RCC means by tradition. The term does not refer to legends or mythological accounts, nor does it encompass customs or practices which may change, as circumstances warrant, such as styles of priestly dress, particular forms of devotion to saints, or even liturgical rubrics. Sacred or apostolic tradition consists of the teachings that the apostles passed on orally through their preaching.
joshlc27 1 year ago
@AlYassou3Rabbi While this was a sin on Peter’s behalf, it does not infringe upon the gift of infallibility. After all, the Holy Spirit still used him to infallibly write two books of inerrant Scripture. By mentioning this, it is useful to draw a parallel between the inspiration of Scripture and the infallibility of the Church. While they are distinct, the fact that all Protestants accept the inerrancy of Scripture can help them see how Catholics can accept Infallbility as well.
joshlc27 1 year ago
@joshlc27 You do realize that in the ENTIRE council of Gods word, It is Jesus Christ who is reffered to as the ROCK and not Peter, correct?
Can you post the scriptures from the bible on how the Apostles and disciples were infallable? All scripture in my book is based upon the law, the psalms and the prophets, as Christ himself aptly put it in Luke 24:44.
All 66 books of the bible profess Christ and reference the law, the pslams and the prophets.
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
Priest- God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
Response- Amen.
JRMAN65 That is the last baptismal promise in the Catholic Faith.. I believe i just shut your "false" down!! haha sorry but you may love Christ but you are seriously confused about Christ's Church..
dcrippen2000 1 year ago
actually that is perfectly true.. and although we do not teach of a one time moment where we proclaim Jesus as Lord and Savior, every week at mass we take Communion and proclaim without it (since it applies the perpetual sacrifice of calvary to us) it is impossible for us to be saved..... hate to be a prick but that sounds like surrenduring to Jesus Christ... EVERY WEEK haha so something for you to ponder :) Christ be with you always
dcrippen2000 1 year ago
My testimony of spiritual birth: raised cath, one sun. sitting in a cath.church w/ no preaching but instrumental music playing, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, tears rolling down my cheeks, my right hand moving by itself, heart beating, i felt heaven, i can't describe, awsome! from that moment, i went from religion to relationship w/ the Lord. i began to praise& worship him, & talk to him, and read bible,& go to church more. i did not fully understand "Born again" till after i read John chapt 3
kbelfort77 1 year ago
"Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? [Y]e made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites."
--Jesus Christ Matthew 15:3, 6, 7
kiwichristian2009 2 years ago
kiwichristian2009, you have no idea what you are speaking about. Oral tradition was the only way to teach the first Christians because there was NO bible.
stevesilvia 2 years ago 2
@kiwichristian2009 that applied to jews
williemetoyer23 1 year ago
Acts4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
kiwichristian2009 2 years ago
Awesome Video - thanks for posting.
Ad Jesum Per Mariam
Dan
kld1966 2 years ago
salvation comes from our baptism and relationship with God post baptism. Though we lose our salvation if we commit a mortal sin that ends our relationship with God. Rejecting our baptismal promises is a Mortal sin as well. ( and for the fundametals out there.. One of the baptismal promises includes accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. )
dcrippen2000 2 years ago
@dcrippen2000 FALSE
JRMAN65 1 year ago
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@JRMAN65 Priest- God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
Response- Amen.
JRMAN65 That is the last baptismal promise in the Catholic Faith.. I believe i just shut your "false" down!! haha sorry but you may love Christ but you are seriously confused about Christ's Church..
dcrippen2000 1 year ago
jetboy33: You are wrong!!!! Times are the same. If Jesus appeared at the door of most priests homes, they wouldn't recognise him as being the Son of God because he would not be wearing expensive looking robes and coverings, he would more than likely look like a homeless man.
in2truth2 2 years ago
@in2truth2
funny you should say that, because I've heard that same homily in a Catholic Church (minus the expensive robes part)
KeyCarist 2 years ago
OK 1962...Off the mark, I'm ready to call you an anti-Semite, but I'll hold off a sec. I'm sure you realize Jesus was born a Jew. That half our Bible is Jewish. Not to mention, the Catholic Church enjoys a rich and happy relationship with Judaism. So often, we refer to many laws and traditions as "Judeo-Christian" (Really, Catholic specifically). Were the Jewish elite during Christ's time against Him? Sure. Times aren't the same now as then. Tell me if I'm wrong...
jetboy33 2 years ago
Thanks again for your intelligently put reply, 1962...religious disagreements have a habit of becoming nasty a lot...this hasn't. Yes, I'm aware that the Pope is only infallible in matters of Church doctrine. Don't you consider Vatican II to be the result of such doctrine? Jesus did tell us that His church would prevail against "the gates of Hell" always...so I'm lost on the concept of current Popes "serving satan".
jetboy33 2 years ago
Thank you for your thoughtful reply, 1962...Yes, after I sent last message, I did remember Traditionalist do still fall under Rome. Admittedly, I'm not as educated on Traditionalists as I'd like to be. You've helped. What I don't understand is believing, say, Benedict is serving satan? And don't you believe Christs Church is infallible, and has been, for the last 2000 years?
jetboy33 2 years ago
You're serious? I know in my heart that the Holy Roman Catholic Church is THE one true faith. And it's not run by Satan. Your splint isn't either. You're just sorely misinformed. I pray, as most RC Catholics do, that one day Traditionalists and all the Protestant faiths will one day return to the mother church. Peace.
jetboy33 2 years ago
You're serious? I know in my heart that the Holy Roman Catholic Church is THE one true faith. -- Where does in the says these?
JustifiedSlave 2 years ago
@1962...
As a Roman Catholic myself, I tell ya, I've never quite understood you Traditionalist Catholics who see Vatican II as a heresy. If Christ gave His Church infallibility, how can Vatican II be fallible?
jetboy33 2 years ago
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doctor, doctor, come quick!!!! The religious loonies are awake again!! Bring some milky propafol!!!!!
Zalvation3 2 years ago
Zalvation3, I hope you understand what spam is?? You have been reported...
stevesilvia 2 years ago
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I belive people will be turn away from the the Catholic Church it has so many pagon objects and ways i have been reading .Seams to be alot of people talking on you tube about it .
toodey 2 years ago
hey buddy...maybe you can also teach us to spell....
mapollo 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
May be my weakness is spelling but you can read the bible truth and see for your self .
toodey 2 years ago
Use spell check. Your so called truth comes from Alexander Hislop, a 19th century anti-catholic.
Try again.
mapollo 2 years ago
Charity! Love and Charity!
Guardian1223 2 years ago
Yes, its interesting seeing them defend non scrptural teachings with scripture. Especially since they cast doubt on the reliability of scripture as a whole.
mikevoter 2 years ago
Ga 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
catholicexodus 2 years ago
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified
Every believer is already sanctified in God's view. Every believer is a new creature in which the Holy Spirit dwells forever. Thus we have the presence of God with us always whether we are taking communion or not. This is the wonderful privilege given us in grace since Christ died for our sins. Certainly, we are able, by that grace to experience it more deeply as we progress in our understanding of that grace.
mikevoter 2 years ago
One offering forever...apparently THAT isn't literal in their minds...they're very selective. If it supports their doctrine, it's literal, if it doesn't they devise some mystical explanation...(all are mother, brother, sister, for example.)
catholicexodus 2 years ago
"One offering forever...apparently THAT isn't literal in their minds."
And why would you think not? Pridefull again? Tell us what you believe the Passover Seder entails..
mapollo 2 years ago
I don't think, I KNOW that the RCC teaches that His sacrifice is ongoing.
catholicexodus 2 years ago
And don't avoid my question. Remember it was you who arrived and starting spewing allegations...
What do you believe the Passover Seder entails, and it's connection to Christ's sacrifice?
Answer....
mapollo 2 years ago
Regardless of the sincerity of those who take Christ's words another way, there can be no doubt that He said, "Do this in rememberance of Me." Paul said that whoever took communion in the proper manner remembered, and showed forth the death of Christ until He comes again." So the two teachings on the blood here in view are not the same. One is trusting Christ's sacrifice to receive life the other is to remember the One who made it all possible by His death.
mikevoter 2 years ago
"Regardless of the sincerity of those who take Christ's words another way, there can be no doubt that He said, "Do this in rememberance of Me.""
I agree. Consider the depth of meaning of the word "rememberance". For us, it remains the one and only sacrifice.
mapollo 2 years ago
To refesh you; how did OT saints get into Heaven without "eating and drinking" Christ's flesh and blood?
The alien video/meds thing was from your response to someone else.
mikevoter 2 years ago
The thief got into heaven...right? And now we have a new covenant right?
God doesn't need your permission to do what he wants.
mapollo 2 years ago
So "eating Christ's flesh and drinking His blood", the only means of salvation according to Christ, must mean trusting Christ's death on the cross for salvation.
It's certain the thief never took communion or was baptized. He never took communion. So those who take communion believing that such an act saves them are incorrect. Communion is to be done in rememberance of Him. .
mikevoter 2 years ago
The act in itself does not save anyone. Believing that Christ's sacrifice, and taking part in it as He said does. The Church teaches Christs one sacrifice on the cross is what takes away our sins. Thats why we say that the sacrifice of the Mass is the very same sacrifice as that of the cross. If the Mass were not the same as the cross, it could never take away sins.
Thus the words 'memory' & remembrance have a deeper meaning than merely remembering. Knowing history becomes important.
contd.
mapollo 2 years ago
When Jesus celebrated Passover, His disciples were Jewish, knowing full well what memory meant at the Passover Seder. It is not simply remembering. For the Jewish people,collective memory flows through ritual and recital.Not only does the injunction zakhor (remember or memory) appear many times in the Hebrew Bible, but the Israelite nation is also instructed there not to forget. The English translation of the word zakhor as 'remember', is too small in scope as the word implies a level of action.
mapollo 2 years ago
The entire Seder is a symbolic reenactment of a historical moment. In fact, one of the central dictums of the Seder, 'in each and every generation let each person regard him- or herself as though they had emerged from Egypt,' enforces the fusion of past and present. Thus the participants of the Seder were to consider that they were there with their ancestors as they fled from Egypt. They are not repeating the act: they are there with them. This is an important concept.
mapollo 2 years ago
Since Jesus and the Apostles were Jewish it is reasonable that this is what the Apostles believed when Jesus uttered those words 'do this in memory of me'. Each time they would do this the barriers of time would fall and they would be once again in the Upper Room with the Master. This is what happens today during the Mass. We are not 're-sacrificing'. We are with Jesus, just as His apostles understood it as Jews. A new 'seder' was created. Thus we are acknowledging His sacrifice.
mapollo 2 years ago
Clement(80 A.D.) in his letter to the Corinthians 36:1 refers to the Eucharist as the offering of the gift. "He commanded us to celebrate sacrifices and services, and that it should not be thoughtlessly or disorderly, but at fixed times and hours. He has Himself fixed by His supreme will the places and persons whom He desires for these celebrations".
Clement was one of the first Christians.
mapollo 2 years ago
Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans:
"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God ... They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again."
This man was a student of the Apostle John.
mapollo 2 years ago
And finally , Justin Martyr, 2nd century:
"For we do not take these things (Body & Blood of Christ) as ordinary bread or ordinary drink. Just as our Savior Jesus Christ was made flesh by the word of God and took on flesh and blood for our salvation, so also were we taught that the food, for which thanksgiving has been made through the word of prayer instituted by him, and from which our blood and flesh are nourished after the change, is the flesh of that Jesus who was made flesh"
mapollo 2 years ago
Quoting men instead of scripture?...how foolish, how self-destructive, how Catholic.
catholicexodus 2 years ago
First of all, my personal apologies to you and anyone else who has been reading along. I am afraid that my zeal for the things I believe have led me to say things in a manner very unChristian. Hitherto, I intend to share my views in a far less aggresive manner. It's far more conducieve to learning to approach one another with civility and love rather than seeking to one-up each other with our beliefs. Yet I in no way abandon the Scripture as the true authority in all things spiritual.
mikevoter 2 years ago
Zealousness can at times over take the intent. And I share this guilt with you. Civility is always important, particlarly when much of our perspective is derived from our own life journey, with achingly personal life experices. We should not tell our fellow traveller "you are wrong" as it merely invalidates those same experiences. And yet they cannot be invalid because they are his or hers. All anyone of us can do is share our experiences, without judgement, but with respect and brotherhood.
mapollo 2 years ago
I agree and thank you. Although I obviously hold different convictions than the teachings of the Catholic Church, I am certain that many Catholics have experienced saving faith in Jesus Christ. I believe that such faith is the deciding factor and so believe that many that bear the name Baptist very well may be lost. It's not the denomination but the personal relying on our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ that makes all the difference.
mikevoter 2 years ago
Quotes from MAPPOLO to others than MV
My friend, I've known scripture for a very long time & it is very clear. Perhaps you will as well one day.
"Its not really MY "opinion"."
Oh?
So now you are the voice of God?
Perhaps you should just keep watching those alien videos you favourited on your site...they seem to make more sense than you.
Make sure you take your meds. You have yet to provide scripture to support your opinion.
MV: When I quote scripture you ignore it!
mikevoter 2 years ago
You have finally crawled out from under your rock. It is ironic that most Catholics are not afraidd to stand up for our faith You, on the other hand seem to have much to hide.
Your buffet of faith is based on what is pleasing to you, flittering from one to another. But most importantly, it is based on what you hate of the Catholic Church. Never, never have I attended a catholic service in which other faiths are mentioned, let alone denigrated. I cannot say the same for you and your ilk.
mapollo 2 years ago
I thought you knew Catholic history. Also, it is the official doctrine of the Catholic Church that all non-Catholics will burn in Hell. True or not true?
mikevoter 2 years ago
False. Surprised?
Inform yourself. You look foolish.
mapollo 2 years ago
"I thought you knew Catholic history"
And it is abundantly clear you do not.
mapollo 2 years ago
Better check that one. Several official dogma sites of the Catholic Church teach otherwise. "1.Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation." Youtube doesn't allow web sites to be posted or I would.
mikevoter 2 years ago
I belong to an Order of the Church. I know what I believe. Non-catholics will not, as you put it, burn in hell.
Try reading a book instead.
mapollo 2 years ago
"So now you are the voice of God?"
It is you who arrived at this video and issued edicts. You came to the video. The video did not come to you. How honorable are your motives?
You cast aspersions on our faith..rest assured we will respond. You count on silence. Surprise.
mapollo 2 years ago
"So now you are the voice of God?"
That's another one of your quotes;suggest you read them again.
mikevoter 2 years ago
Oh I know. When you run out of thoughts you need to use mine.
The question remains...are you?
mapollo 2 years ago
"Perhaps you should just keep watching those alien videos you favourited on your site...they seem to make more sense than you."
You are deluded. Since all I have favourited are Catholic videos...none of which attack other faiths I may add...I can only conclude you are a sycophant of Alexander Hislop.
You have yet to answer any of my points. Obfuscation of the issue will not work. Your base is made of sand and nothing more.
mapollo 2 years ago
MAPOLLO:" You need to revert to ad hominums instead of dealing with issue, suggesting your intent is less than honorable".
Recognize those words? They are yours and as I looked at your responses to others on here, I see that you have fulfilled them many times. And you a Franconian who is supposed to spread peace etc! BTW, care to go into their troubled history while claiming Catholic "unity"?
mikevoter 2 years ago
"Recognize those words? They are yours and as I looked at your responses to others on here, "
Oh I do. And you continue to make them true. When you can't discuss the issue you revert to personal attacks.
mapollo 2 years ago
BTW, since you brought up the Apostolic sucession thing, how did Paul get to be an Apostle without any interaction with Peter? And how is it that Paul rebuked Peter publicly and Peter supposedly infaliable? And speaking of history, have you seen the history of the Church that came out recently in Ireland? Check the NY times for details.
mikevoter 2 years ago
"have you seen the history of the Church that came out recently in Ireland?"
Have you seen the recent history of the Southern Baptist Convention?
Before you point out the mote in your brother's eye, remove the log which is in yours. And it is ponderously large.
mapollo 2 years ago
Once again you evade an in depth question; how about Paul and Apostolic sucession?
mikevoter 2 years ago
That's your problem. Yes, apostolic succesion is great. What's your point.
mapollo 2 years ago
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The catholic church has been murdering and abusing Irish men women and children in Ireland for the last 70 years without hinder from the out side world. The catholic church has been covering up it's horrendous crimes on humanity for the last 300 years. 70 years crimes against humanity in Ireland and I haven't heard one condemnation of this apocalyptic event. The catholic church is the largest and most powerful pedophile ring in the world.
Arclight08 2 years ago
And your point is? You will never understand if you ignore context and elevate the "church" over the Lord's Word and the Apostles' too.
Christ said to cut off your hand if it keeps you from entering life; would you do that?
I suppose if you believe that He was refering to literal consuming re the blood/flesh you might.
People that heard Jesus teach often got it wrong; was John then able to teach better than Jesus?
mikevoter 2 years ago
"was John then able to teach better than Jesus? "
You aren't doing any better. I have seen your same arguments on non-catholic channels. It seems you have worn out your welcome there as well...
Again. You are not Christ. Not even close.
mapollo 2 years ago
Did Christ "wear out His welcome" too? The world will love it's own. If you really believe that Christ knows more than all, why don't you respond to His teaching?
Are you not in fact one of the blind guides He warned against? Pointing people to everything churchy while ignoring the need of personal faith in Christ crucified.
mikevoter 2 years ago
"why don't you respond to His teaching?"
You seem to think you know me but not surprising an erroneous assumption. Once more, your pride & ignorance shines through.
I have committed my life to Christ, to bring life to the Gospel and the Gospel to everyday life.
mapollo 2 years ago
As a matter of fact, I have been taught by John and so has everyone who believes the Bible is the Word of God. Christ taught from the scriptures and chastised though who did not know it while trying to teach others. The Apostles taught from the OT even as they were compiling the NT. They preached the Gospel with authority and whether their woird was written or spoken it was God's Word as well. We have no present day Apostles but we have their writings and they are present in them. It's enough.
mikevoter 2 years ago
You weren't taught personally. But Ignatius was. And Ignatius echoed what the Apostle John taught. Glad to hear you agree.
mapollo 2 years ago
cute
mikevoter 2 years ago
mapollo 2 years ago
Not responding to these questions now?
mapollo 2 years ago
Still avoiding my question ... why don't you admit you don't know? That would then illustrate the humility you seek to browbeat into me.
Now you bring up the Apostles to justify the "fathers" when before you brought up the 'fathers" to refute the Apostles. Amazing. But don't foret the question; I won't.
To refesh you; how did OT saints get into Heaven without "eating and drinking" Christ's flesh and blood?
mikevoter 2 years ago
"how did OT saints get into Heaven without "eating and drinking" Christ's flesh and blood? "
You seem to think that God plays by your rules. That is the height of pride and hypocrisy. There are no constraints for God...something you seem to forget.
Tell me, what do you think the Catholic Church teaches regarding believers before the Resurrection? Tell us what you think you know.
mapollo 2 years ago