lets do this,,i'll tell u how i would lead somone to christ on their deathbed,i would tell them to repent of their sins{this has to be genuine though}come and be my savior,and if he means it,he will be saved and have eternal life..now,,your gonna tell me that if a person says that and is sincere about that,that god is going to shun him away??
@uwique "lets do this,,i'll tell u how i would lead somone to christ .... " Oh, I know what you'd SAY, but I'm not so sure what the fella might DO - if he's dying. He might just have time to have FAITH, so you'd say he's saved. But he might die before he confesses that faith, prays, repents, etc, so you'd say he's lost. And you'd have to flip a coin on his destiny - you'd be like a Chicago politician: you could take either side.
You said that there is only one church in the Bible, that's good that you understand that, now which one is it today?
Remember, they have to have the same doctrine, Paul's teaching
For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
Why does Paul say tongues will cease in 1Cor.13:8, how do you explain that?
@uwique No, friend the bible doesn't say baptizm is a religious ceremony, & sprinkling started more than 500 yrs after the church was built. The NT speaks ONLY on immersion.
And Jesus is saying that if your not baptized your CANNOT enter into the Kingdom of God
Feelings of men, don't overide the commandments of God, He said CANNOT.
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
"what if a person repents to god of his sin..is he forgiven?" What if he reads Jn 3: 16 (which doesn't mention repentance), he "believeth on Him" and "should be saved", but dies before he can repent? Is Jn 3: 16 good enough? Or do you ADD to the recipe?again,,explain "beleive"
Rev.2:10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
@Wilsonrdcoc if u was to goto someone on their deathbed,how would u preach the gospel to them since god told us christians to go and preach the gospel?
No where in the Bible does it say that baptizm for the remission of sins shall cease? But say's it NOW SAVES US!
1Pet.3: 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
@uwique "for we are saved by grace thru faith,,no baptism here." <-- no repentance there either, is it. What about loving God? Is it there? Confessing faith in Christ? I don't see it specifically mentioned.
@uwique "for we are saved by grace thru faith,,no baptism here." So we'll say your deathbed man is RIGHT THERE. At the point of faith, and has not yet repented of his sins. He dies before repentance, but he has faith. What do you do about Eph 2: 8? Sit him on a stump. Is he a LOST BELIEVER or SAVED WITHOUT REPENTANCE?
@uwique He was talking to already baptized Christians in that verse, not the lost. After baptizm faith must continue in him to be saved by grace. Being born of the water & the blood only happens once.
Jn.3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away
Speaking in Tongues was in the NT and ONLY the Christians that God chose spoke in different tongues could.
1Cor.12:10, 30 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
@Wilsonrdcoc "Speaking in Tongues was in the NT and ONLY the Christians that God chose spoke in different tongues could." <-- this is incorrect. I have debated the subject for years, and such a view (only a Christian - a saved person - could speak in a 'tongue') will only get you in hot water - not out of it.
@Wilsonrdcoc "But now is obsoltete. Look at 1Cor.13:8" Of course it (tongues) is! Claiming to possess tongues - or that people still do possess miraculous gifts of any kind - is a frontal attack on the all-sufficiency of the written word. Such things CONFIRMED the word, and it now stands - confirmed and certified.
@lllannalll God is not the author of confusion.....For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Speaking in tongues is in the New Testament & so is baptizm, but one must read & understand the other scriptures to validate their acceptance in God's will
John's Baptizm is in the New Testament while Christ walked the earth, but Paul let the Ephesians know that that was obsolete, and they were baptized for the Holy Ghost.
@uwique Ok, now the next step for you is to prove that the doctrine is false, because saying "your doctrine is false" in a thousand comments doesn't PROVE ANYTHING.
You must use scripture to help us, even as I just helped you in the comment below. Because men only have to be baptized once in HIS BODY, & then continue in faith to have salvation by grace. We can't just be baptized and stop obeying God, Jesus said in Mtt.24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
@Wilsonrdcoc how about u,,why dont u do the pointing of false doctrine??,,there are alot of christians out there besides people in your church,,judge not lest u be judged,and thats exactly what your doing,,judging,the bible says u will know my people by the fruits they bare,,now i want u to start pointing out all the bad fruit of the churches.
@Wilsonrdcoc Ok, now the next step for you is to prove that the doctrine is false, because saying "your doctrine is false" in a thousand comments doesn't PROVE ANYTHING...niether does your misinterpretation of scripture.
@Wilsonrdcoc ok,,here we go.."baptize"a religiuos ceromony in which water is used as a SYMBOL of cleansing of sin.Churches todaybaptise by sprinkling or immersing in water.Baptism is a SIGN that our sins have been washed away and that jesus has taken us to be his own.
Many individuals wait or tarry in false teaching all their life, until they end up old or sick in their death bed, and don't obey the Gospel. Here is what Paul was told in Acts for his sins to be removed.
Acts.22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Now, the Bible doesn't contradict itself, there are many scriptures like this one, and they must be rightly divided with others scriptures to understand God's will.
@Wilsonrdcoc Oh, I know full well what Acts 22: 16 says, and he's trying now to answer his own "deathbed" question, and - as near as I can tell - he's trying to say a person believes/trusts in God and repents of his sin/prays to God ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Before it's over, he'll offer definitions that Thayer and Liddell/Scott never heard of.
@lllannallll you tell people on their deathbed to repent of their sins,,according to u its like u have a preliminary before the repentance part,,i'll tell ya,,legalism is horrible.
@uwique "according to u its like u have a preliminary before the repentance part" CERTAINLY YOU DO! You must have FAITH first. Get it? Faith in God precedes repentance. Godly sorrow for sins induces repentance, and a man can't have Godly sorrow without faith.
@lllannallll ok..since u wanna break this into bits and pieces,,how long is the time span between trusting and repenting?having faith that god will forgive him when he repents or knowing his sins will be forgiven..your really making a project out of simple repentance,,and yes,the important thing is that he/she repents..is there a timeline between trusting and repenting?,when u repent,the grace of god goes into effect,,do u know what grace is?
@uwique "how long is the time span between trusting and repenting?" It could be very brief, or it could be a long time. Doesn't matter. The fella believed in God, trusted in Jesus, etc., yet DIED prior to repentance. What happened to him? A LOST BELIEVER or a SAVED INPENITENT?
@uwique "when u repent,the grace of god goes into effect,,do u know what grace is?" Well, then "by grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH." I said the man had FAITH, but died BEFORE he could repent. Now you are coming along, and, I guess, saying "by grace are ye saved through faith" won't work.
@uwique "your really making a project out of simple repentance." Seems to me that you are. I simply said a man died in the time frame - whether seconds, minutes, hours, days or weeks between faith and repentance. I asked "Is he a LOST BELIEVER or a SAVED IMPENITENT?"
@lllannallll u must have faith first u say?..yes,,faith that god will forgive u of sin,faith is being sure in what we hoped for,so faith is beleiving god will forgive u.this is not hard u know..lol
@uwique "u must have faith first u say?..yes" Well, I'm glad you agree that faith comes first - shoot, it HAS to! Alright, this guy has faith. Now it's time to repent. He dies at that point. "By grace are ye saved through faith." He didn't have time to repent. Did faith save him without repentance?
@uwique "so faith is beleiving god will forgive u.this is not hard u know" Umm .. ok. Well, a person on a deathbed can certainly do that and die before he repents, can't he? So here's a man with faith, but hasn't repented - is he lost?
@lllannallll so faith is beleiving god will forgive u.this is not hard u know" Umm .. ok. Well, a person on a deathbed can certainly do that and die before he repents, can't he? So here's a man with faith, but hasn't repented - is he lost?
@uwique "i guess so,you said it,,if a man doesnt repent before he dies,then yes,he goes to hell." So you're position is that "by grace are ye saved by faith" is not entirely true, right? You add repentance to it?
@lllannallll do u know what grace is??grace is basically letting somone off the hook who doesnt deserve it,isnt that scripture understood?when u repent to god,gods grace takes effect and he lets u off the hook by forgiveing you of what u repented of.
@uwique "when u repent to god,gods grace takes effect" Well, the guy trusted in Jesus Christ, had faith in God - he had faith. But he simply and unfortunately DIED before he had a chance to repent. You know all that. Is THAT particular person, a person WITH FAITH (Eph 2: 8, "by grace are ye saved through faith). Is THAT person saved without repenting? He died before he could repent.
@uwique "when u repent to god,gods grace takes effect" Well, the guy trusted in Jesus Christ, had faith in God - he had faith. But he simply and unfortunately DIED before he had a chance to repent. You know all that. Is THAT particular person, a person WITH FAITH (Eph 2: 8, "by grace are ye saved through faith). Is THAT person saved without repenting? He died before he could repent.
@uwique "when u repent to god,gods grace takes effect" Well, the guy trusted in Jesus Christ, had faith in God - he had faith. But he simply and unfortunately DIED before he had a chance to repent. You know all that. Is THAT particular person, a person WITH FAITH (Eph 2: 8, "by grace are ye saved through faith). Is THAT person saved without repenting? He died before he could repent.
@uwique "whats the man asking god to save him from?" What do you think? His lost condition and the consquences of it. He had to have "faith" in order to ask for that, though. And he died as a BELIEVER, but before he could ask God anything.
@uwique "when u repent to god,gods grace takes effect" Well, the guy trusted in Jesus Christ, had faith in God - he had faith. But he simply and unfortunately DIED before he had a chance to repent. You know all that. Is THAT particular person, a person WITH FAITH (Eph 2: 8, "by grace are ye saved through faith). Is THAT person saved without repenting? He died before he could repent.
@uwique "i'll tell ya,,legalism is horrible." What's horrible is that you're taking a man who trusts in Christ, believes in God, etc yet HAS NOT YET REPENTED nor confessed Christ nor been baptized, and sending him to Hell - the quoting "for by grace are we saved through faith." See a problem there?
@lllannallll What's horrible is that you're taking a man who trusts in Christ, believes in God, etc yet HAS NOT YET REPENTED nor confessed Christ nor been baptized, and sending him to Hell - the quoting "for by grace are we saved through faith." See a problem there..no..your making this complicated,,so your telling me the man hasnt repented and hes going to hell?i told u trhat before,people who dont repent will goto hell.
@lllannallll 'll tell ya,,legalism is horrible." What's horrible is that you're taking a man who trusts in Christ, believes in God, etc yet HAS NOT YET REPENTED nor confessed Christ nor been baptized, and sending him to Hell - the quoting "for by grace are we saved through faith." See a problem there?..for by grace you are saved by faith,,i was reffering that baptism s not needed for salvation..for get about that,,stay on tact here.
@Wilsonrdcoc why dont u tell me how i dont obey the gospel?i'm a proffessing christian,and i have been baptised before..even though i dont beleive its essential for salvation and i live according to gods plan,,u tell me,,and dont tell me cuase i dont goto the church of christ church either.
@uwique Jesus only has one Holy Spirit, & in order for that Spirit to stay in an individual they have to keep the same doctrine. 2Jn.1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Now there are different churches who have different doctrines now when you think of names as Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Jehovah's witness, you think of their doctrine.
@Wilsonrdcoc Now there are different churches who have different doctrines now when you think of names as Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Jehovah's witness, you think of their doctrine.you forgot the church of christ and their doctrine,and yes,,u are a denomination.
@uwique Paul didn't want this division we have now with different churches in...
1Cor.1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, & that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Jesus never planned to create different kinds of churches--that's confusion & division!
The Holy Ghost is still on earth, & he is not in agreement with men creating different churches.
@Wilsonrdcoc do u know what church is not speaking the same thing?..its the COC..the baptists and pentecostals both beleive the same thing and so do the non denom churches,,the only 1 that beleives differently is your church..yes the bible says theres only 1 church,,thats the church of beleivers in christ,,not a certain church like yours..are u guys serious?LOL
@uwique At the COC, we are confident & bold that we are the only ONE, & if its not us, then who is it? The Bible says that there is only ONE CHURCH & ONE SPIRIT. Eph.4:4. If not us then who? Because the Holy Ghost doesn't agree with what isn't written or what is not wrongly divided.
@Wilsonrdcoc thats where your confused,the church of christ is the body of beleivers,,its just not 1 particular church,you guys have taken the bible out of context and started a whole church out of it..lol
@Wilsonrdcoc At the COC, we are confident & bold that we are the only ONE, & if its not us, then who is it? who is it??anyone who loves the lord thy god with all their mind body in soul and lives for christ,,thats the church!
It is not the name on the outside of the building, it is following God's word. God's plan of salvation. This man is incorrect in what he's saying. The words church of Christ are in the bible, how many churches are there in the bible, 1, "one church", it is not the name on the building. There is only one church of Christ. Those who belong to the church of Christ follow the doctrines of the church in the bible. Enough said.
It is not the name on the outside of the building, it is following God's word. God's plan of salvation. This man is incorrect in what he's saying. The words church of Christ are in the bible, how many churches are there in the bible, 1, "one church", it is not the name on the building. There is only one church of Christ. Those who belong to the church of Christ follow the doctrines of the church in the bible. Enough said.
It is not the name on the outside of the building, it is following God's word. God's plan of salvation. This man is incorrect in what he's saying. The words church of Christ are in the bible, how many churches are there in the bible, 1, "one church", it is not the name on the building. There is only one church of Christ. Those who belong to the church of Christ follow the doctrines of the church in the bible. Enough said.
It is not the name on the outside of the building, it is following God's word. God's plan of salvation. This man is incorrect in what he's saying. The words church of Christ are in the bible, how many churches are there in the bible, 1, "one church", it is not the name on the building. There is only one church of Christ. Those who belong to the church of Christ follow the doctrines of the church in the bible. Enough said.
"u become a beleiver in christ when u ask for forgiveness of sin" You become a believer when you place your faith, your confidence in Jesus Christ as your saviour...your saying the same thing i am.
ok..lets say the person trusts and then beleives second,and then dies without being baptised,,where does he go??stop throwing so much into the question..lol
@uwique "if a person doesnt repent before he dies he goes to hell..and died an unbeleiver." LMAO. A believer who died before he could repent suddenly flips into being an unbeliever? Look, the guy DOES believe. He just died before he could repent or pray to God to save him.
@uwique "lets say the person trusts and then beleives second,and then dies without being baptised" Ok, but we'll just say he dies after trusting/believing but BEFORE repenting of his sins and praying for forgiveness. Just ran outta time. He died as an impentient believer who never had time to pray. But he IS a believer. Is he LOST?
@uwique "no..i said the person repents but dies before he is baptised" And I said the person TRUST in Jesus Christ, but dies before he repents. Same principle involved, and it seems that you are saying he went straight to hell.
@lllannallll if the person asked god to forgive him of sin,god will forgive him,lets see he/she has done that.but has died beofre baptism,,where does he go?
@uwique "trust god for what?" TO SAVE HIM, that's what. He trusts in God to save him, but has not yet repented of his sins, confessed his faith, nor prayed to God to save him. But he DOES believe/trust in Jesus Christ. That's where he stands (or lays) when he dies. And you say he's LOST?
@lllannallll ok..lets say the person trusts god to save him and repents of his sins,,but died before baptised..where does he go??..you throw so much into a simple question,,,legalism at its finest..lol
@uwique "lets see he/she has done that.but has died beofre baptism,,where does he go?" Oh, let's just say he trusts in God, but has NOT yet asked Jesus to save him. He was just fixin' to, yet DIED. He died as a BELIEVER who never REPENTED and never yet asked Jesus to save him. And he's a LOST BELIEVER? Tell us.
@uwique "lets say the person trusts god to save him and repents of his sins" No, let's say the person trusts God to save him but HAS NOT YET repented or prayed to God for forgiveness. That's easier. Do you have an NON-REPENTANT man in heaven or a BELIEVER roasting in hell. That's must more reasonable, since we're making it up. Answer it.
@lllannallll if a person repents..confesses to god of sin he will be saved,a BELEIVER is someone who serves god,it not someone who just beleives in an exsistance of god..you talk as if you cant trust god and repent in the same sentence,,are u serious?LOL
@uwique "lets say the person trusts and then beleives second" Ok, fine. He woulda repented THIRD, maybe, and prayed FOURTH. But he never lived long enough for 3 and 4. He simply believed and trusted. Is he a lost believer, cuz after all he DID trust and believe.
@uwique "yes,,beleived and trusted god to forgive him of his sin" <-- yes, right there, he DIED. Without prayer, without repenting, without confessing faith - he DIED. Is he lost?
@lllannallll what are u sayin?LOL,,ok,,i think i need to be real specific with u since your legalism gets in the way of u understanding.if he beleived and trusted god to forgive him,,he asked for it,therefore,he repented,,forgivness of sin=repentance.
@uwique "trust god for what?LOL,,if the person hasnt repented before he dies,,yes hes lost" I told you: trust God through Jesus Christ to SAVE him, that's what. So your belief leaves room for a LOST BELIEVER, right?
@lllannallll listen,,u become a beleiver in christ when u ask for forgiveness of sin..i think u and me have a different meaning to the word "beleiver"
@uwique "btw,,repentance comes by COnFESSING to god your sin" Well, the fella BELIEVED in God, TRUSTED in Jesus Christ, but DIED BEFORE he got around to CONFESSING sins to God or praying about it. You never really answer - did the man DIE LOST? As a LOST BELIEVER?
@uwique "listen,,u become a beleiver in christ when u ask for forgiveness of sin" No, one must necessarily BELIEVE IN or TRUST IN Christ BEFORE he'd ever THINK of "asking for forgiveness." Belief comes first, prayer would come later.
@uwique "i think u and me have a different meaning to the word "beleiver"" I'll take the meaning in the lexicons - that'll work for me. So this man TRUSTS IN Jesus, but died before he could ASK for forgiveness or REPENT. But he DOES believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He DOES trust in Christ. Is he lost?
@uwique "u become a beleiver in christ when u ask for forgiveness of sin" You become a believer when you place your faith, your confidence in Jesus Christ as your saviour. THEN you repent, pray, etc. But this guy died without repenting or praying -- he just believed and trusted. Is he lost?
@lllannallll ok..let me put this in the same words as u ok?u make this difficult,,its really not hard to understand..beleived asnd trusted in what?,,how does he beleive and trust?
@uwique "beleived asnd trusted in what?,,how does he beleive and trust?" I've TOLD you. He believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, he TRUSTS in Jesus to save him, he has CONFIDENCE in Jesus Christ. He is just about to take the next steps: repent of all his sins and ask (pray) for forgiveness. He DIES. He DIES as a believer. Is he a LOST BELIEVER?
@uwique "i think u and me have a different meaning to the word "beleiver" Perhaps. Tell me yours and give me the references. You can't just "make one up" to suit you, you know.
@lllannallll when u repent,,your trusting god as your savior,cuase your asking him to forgive u of your sinfull lifestyle,cuase repenting means "to turn away from",,you turn away from sin..ok..beleived in trusted god for what?
@lllannallll yes,,beleived and trusted god to forgive him of his sin,,and if he died right after confessing his sin to god {repentance}he would goto heaven.
@uwique "if he beleived and trusted god to forgive him,,he asked for it" No, he DIDN'T. I just SAID he DIED before he had a CHANCE to pray about it. Right before! LOL @ you trying to say belief + trust = prayer.
@lllannallll "if he beleived and trusted god to forgive him,,he asked for it" No, he DIDN'T. I just SAID he DIED before he had a CHANCE to pray about it.pray about what?LOL.if the person dies in his sin,he goes to hell..no one becomes a beleiver in christ unless he repentsafter that,he is a beleiver in christ,bleives god will help him,bleives god will answer his prayer,ets.
@uwique Haha. Is it POSSIBLE that a person believes in/trusts in/has confidence in Jesus Christ yet DIES BEFORE he has a CHANCE to repent of his sins and say a prayer to ask for forgiveness. Is such POSSIBLE?
@uwique "beleived in trusted god for what?" I've told you FOUR TIMES: the man trusted in/believed in/had confidence in Jesus Christ to SAVE HIM, that's what. Now he's ready to repent of all his sins and ask Jesus, in prayer, to save him. He dies before he can do that - IS HE A LOST BELIEVER?
@uwique "if yu dont repent,and u die,,u goto hell,,whats so hard about this?" So hard? Nothing. Nothing except that you leave no room for a man trusting in Christ yet dying before he can repent of his sins and pray to God for forgiveness. Best I can tell, you just claim it's IMPOSSIBLE, dont you?
@uwique "the important thing is that the man repents" I thought you said the important thing was for a man to HAVE FAITH. And he'll have faith before he repents, before he confesses Christ, and before he is baptized. Now you're trying to get legalist and add repentance to it. For shame, for shame.
@lllannallll the important thing is that the man repents" I thought you said the important thing was for a man to HAVE FAITH,,yes,faith that god will forgive him of sin..how in the world would u try to lead someone to christ if they were on their deathbed?
@lllannallll..you say the 1st step is trusting in christ??..ok,,trusting christ for what?..trusting christ to save u,,then u say beleives in god,,well..being that i beleive in the trinity,that would be the same,then u say confessing christ,,i beleive that is repentance..i'll put it this way,,if a man repents,he beleives god by faith will forgive him of his sin,thats also confessing christ as savior,now hes your savior after u repent,now if u want to be baptised,then get baptised.
@uwique "then u say confessing christ,,i beleive that is repentance" Well, it's not because WITH THE MOUTH confession is made unto salvation - not WITH THE WILLPOWER. Repentance is a mental act of the will - a renouncing of sin. It's not "confession".
@lllannallll so faith is beleiving god will forgive u.this is not hard u know" Umm .. ok. Well, a person on a deathbed can certainly do that and die before he repents, can't he? So here's a man with faith, but hasn't repented - is he lost?let me put it this way ok??AHHHHH!!..lolwhen a man repents to god,hes beleiving by faith that god will forgive him of his sin,again,your making it difficult.
@uwique "your right,a person can die on his deathbed before he repents" Absolutely. So he can die as a believer - a person who has faith - without making it to the next step, right? Is the person a LOST BELIEVER?
@uwique How about we let the guy live LONG ENOUGH to repent, so you won't be in such a ridiculous position, and we'll let him DIE before baptism? Since we're making it up - and you've certainly indicated that you want him to live long enough to repent - we can do that. That'll let you off the hook, and still demonstrate the weakness of your position.
@lllannallll remember..theres an awfull lot of people on their deathbed right now in hundreds of hospices all How about we let the guy live LONG ENOUGH to repent, so you won't be in such a ridiculous position, and we'll let him DIE before baptism? across america,,its too bad your cult church writes them off..your the 1 who has a recipe for salvation,,if i was to lead somone to christ on their deathbed,i would tell them they need ask god for forgiveness of sin,and if he means it
@uwique Chalk it up: there is NO PLACE in your doctrine for this fella that trusted in Christ - had faith - yet died before repentance. You haven't got a clue. You'd hate to send him to hell because "by grace through faith", you know. But you can't send him to heaven, either, because "unless ye repent, ye shall perish." Either way, you lose. If you'd like to continue trying, be my guest.
@lllannallll i'm the 1 who said if he repents before he dies,he goes to heaven,,your the one that says he has no chance cuase he cant be baptised in your church?RIGHT??
@uwique "i'm the 1 who said if he repents before he dies,he goes to heaven" Haha. You might have, but you WERE NOT ASKED about "if he repents before he dies", were you? You were ASKED about a man who has faith, trusts in Christ, etc but DIES BEFORE he repents. I wish you'd explain his destiny. Did your verse "by grace are ye saved through faith" work for him?
@lllannallll trusted christ for what? forgivness of sin?..had faith in what?knowing god was gonna forgive him when he asked?..you have yet to explain to me how u would explain to someone on their deathbed how to know christ?..you can have faith,trust and repent all in 1 sentence,your ridiculous!!..is this what your church teaches?LOL
@uwique "trusted christ for what? forgivness of sin?" Yep. "had faith in what?knowing god was gonna forgive him" Yep. But he still died before he could PRAY about or REPENT. I've repeatedly told you that his faith - his faith only - was sufficient for whatever. He simply never prayed or repented. And you don't know WHAT to do with him.
@uwique "you can have faith,trust and repent all in 1 sentence,your ridiculous" Ahh, but tis POSSIBLE to have belief, faith, trust, confidence and DIE BEFORE repentance. Certainly the folks in Acts 2 COULD have done that. It's possible. And you can't explain the destiny of such a person.
@lllannallll oh 1 more thing,,if god knows everything before hand,he knows when this person is gonna be saved,he will stay alive until he does what god anticipated him to do,so he knows whose gonna be saved either on their deathbed or in good health,,do u think god would let somone die before repentance if he knew they were truly gonna repent?
@uwique "do u think god would let somone die before repentance if he knew they were truly gonna repent?" LOL You mean the same God that wouldn't let them be baptized if He knew they truly wanted to? THAT God? Oh, that lil "argument" falls of its own weight.
@uwique "its time for u to start answering my questions." No problem! Which verses would you like to discuss? I learned from your little struggle that it's better to stay outta the ICU ward and just leave the clemency to God. Good grief, I might not do any better than you - and that'd be pretty bad. But if you'd like to stay in the hospice, we will.
@lllannallll chalk yourself up..u mean there is no place fof this fella in your doctrine cuase he cant be baptised in your chuch right??,,maybe u cant admit that cuase your starting to see the evil arrogance of it all.
@uwique "chalk yourself up..u mean there is no place fof this fella in your doctrine." LOL There's no place for him is YOUR doctrine. He trusted in Christ so he's saved, according to you, but he died before he could repent, so he's lost according to you. Now that's a mess. He had faith - "by grace through faith" - but never confessed Christ, never prayed, never repented - and you have no place for him, unless you sit him on a stump.
@uwique "cuase your starting to see the evil arrogance of it all." Umm, no, but I'm sure feeling the inconsistency of your position. "By grace are ye saved through faith." Ok, we'll say the fella had faith. So he's saved, right? But he didn't repent. So he's lost, right? Here again, there again, gone again, Flanagain. You remind me of those kids at a Toga Party, twisting and squirming and down in the floor doing the Alligator.
@lllannallll your right,a person can die on his deathbed before he repents" Absolutely. So he can die as a believer -a biblical beleiver or does beleive in an exsistance of a god?
@uwique And your trouble (as you realize) is this: you have repeatedly quoted John 3: 16 and Eph 2: 8, but you try to redefine "believeth" and "saved by faith" in some odd way as to make repentance inherent in the definition. You arbitrarily ADD TO the definition, because your belief leaves NO ROOM for an unsaved believer. I knew that to start with - I just wanted watch you struggle with it. And you have.
@uwique "if a man confesses and says hes sorry{repents} to god with his mouth,he will be saved." What if he has faith, but dies right before he can do that? He didn't have TIME to confess .. he didn't have TIME to repent .. but he DID have FAITH. Is this person with faith a LOST BELIEVER? Or not? Yes or no?
@uwique "i explained to u what a beleiver is." Umm .. no. Here's what you TRIED to do: you TRIED to kinda redefine the word in a way to INCLUDE such things as repentance, prayer, etc, yet EXCLUDE baptism. That's not NEARLY what you've attempted ... it IS what you tried. That stunt won't work. Strictly speaking, belief does NOT include repentance, but as a synecdoche, it certainly frequently does. There is NO WAY to slip repentance, prayer and confession IN, and leave baptism OUT.
@uwique "if a man confesses and says hes sorry{repents} to god with his mouth" Suppose he's got breathing/feeding tubes in and CAN'T SAY ANYTHING? There's a man who CAN'T POSSIBLY meet your conditions. What happens?
@uwique "if a man repents,he beleives god by faith will forgive him of his sin" What if he believes/trusts in God and Jesus Christ to save him - yet DIED BEFORE he could repent of his sins? You've yet to answer that.
@lllannallll "if a man repents,he beleives god by faith will forgive him of his sin" What if he believes/trusts in God and Jesus Christ to save him - yet DIED BEFORE he could repent of his sins? this question is more hypothetical than my deathbed question..lol,usually,in the next sentence, after beleiving/trusting, he repents of sin,this is usually done in 1 sentence/confession.
@uwique "what if a person repents to god of his sin..is he forgiven?" What if he reads Jn 3: 16 (which doesn't mention repentance), he "believeth on Him" and "should be saved", but dies before he can repent? Is Jn 3: 16 good enough? Or do you ADD to the recipe?
@uwique "lets say he doesnt read john,and he repents before he dies" How bout we just leave it at the point where he TRUSTS in Christ, has CONFIDENCE in Christ, BELIEVES in the gospel, and all that, but he kicks the bucket JUST PRIOR to repenting of his sins? How's that? No need in fudging around with silly add-on questions. You can't answer that one. And your favorite deathbed scenario has turned right around on you. That's why hypotheticals are useless.
@lllannallll hypotheticals??pls stop!!LOL..wherever u live,i can take u to the nearest hospice and show u many people on their deathbed,,do me a favor,stop twisting and turning somthing thats simple to make it not understandable..you have yet to tell me how u would lead somone to christ on their deathbed..or does your church not go there and preach the gospel to them..i dont thinkyur church does much of anything.
@uwique "do me a favor,stop twisting and turning somthing" I'm not. I said a man believes in Jesus, he trusts in Christ, he has faith in God - ok, he's a man with faith. You understand that, I'm sure. He died RIGHT BEFORE he repented. He didn't repent. Ok, you understand that. What happens to him? You understand that. Twisting? Turning? Making incomprehensible? Shoot, I made it easy.
@uwique "i dont thinkyur church does much of anything." Well, I don't think you or your church can tell us about the man WITH FAITH, but who died WITHOUT repenting. You're totally lost on that. But that's just my opinion, similar to your "i dont think ur church ..." Who cares what you or I "think"? You need to get BACK to the Bible, and AWAY from the ICU ward.
@lllannallll for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son thatsowhoever beleives in him,,what do u think that word BELEIVE means??do u think its "ok i beleive in christ have a nice day"..its not like that.
@uwique "what do u think that word BELEIVE means?" I'll tell you: pistis (believe, have faith) MEANS "to have confidence in, to trust in, to comply with, to have faith in, to be obedient to, etc" Trouble is: even though that's straight from Thayers/Liddell and Scott, YOU do not accept it. You sorta make up your own definition, out-sourced from the 23rd chapter of your imagination. That's your biggest problem on the whole thing.
@uwique "do u think its "ok i beleive in christ have a nice day"..its not like that." LMAO ... in the hypothetical case, it was a matter of TIMING - not a matter of SINCERITY. The man absolutely TRUSTED in Christ, but DID NOT confess Him nor repent. That was the scenario. No need in trying to downplay it into a case of poor faith or the like.
@uwique "its a simple questionhe repents before he dies,,is he going to heaven?" I said he dies WITH FAITH - he is a BELIEVER in Jesus Christ as the Son of God - he trusts in Christ, but he died BEFORE he could repent. Does Eph 2: 8 apply to him, or is he SOL, even though he has faith?
@lllannallll faith,,is being sure in what you hoped for,,and is certain of what u do not see..thats the definition of faithits a simple questionhe repents before he dies,,is he going to heaven?" I said he dies WITH FAITH - he is a BELIEVER in Jesus Christ as the Son of God - he trusts in Christ, but he died BEFORE he could repent. Does Eph 2: 8 apply to him, or is he SOL, even though he has faith?,,you want to rphrase your queation now?
@uwique BEliever??,,beleives in what?..faith...faith in what?..iot seems your saying faith and beleiving are on the same lines as repentance..dont u think they are all tied together?you mean if he has trust and confidence for god to forgive his sin?
@uwique "dont u think they are all tied together?" Of course not. The example proves that. A man can trust in Christ, believe in Christ, have confidence in Christ - and NOT repent of his sins. The believers in Acts 2 were told to repent - when? AFTER they had believed. AFTER they were cut to the heart. AFTER they cried out. No, the two - faith and repentance - are not inseparably linked.
@uwique "the more easy i make it,the more complicated u make it." Nope, you do because you alter the scenario. I said the man absolutely trusts in Jesus Christ - I've said it 10 times. He trusts in Christ to save him - no need in asking, "What does he trust in" again. He has faith in Christ, confidence in Christ .. his faith is FINE. He simply DIED before he could REPENT or CONFESS Christ - and you are saying THAT MAN is eternally LOST? Yes or NO.
@lllannallll listen,,i apologise to u if i offended u in anyway,,i lose my cool somtimes and i know i shouldnt,,i think we can debate in a rational way ok?
@uwique So this dying person BELIEVES in Christ, TRUSTS in Christ, but has not yet repented of his sins, confessed Christ, nor been baptized. He is at the point of "faith only." "For by grace are ye saved through faith." He dies without repenting, but he has faith. Is he saved or lost?
@uwique "sorry to say,,but yu are the 1 in the false religion." Oh, c'mon. You have the scenario: a man trusts in Christ, but has yet to confess his faith or repent of his sins. He died right before he could. But, yes, he believed in/trusted in Christ - just ran outta time. Is he a LOST BELIEVER or a SAVED IMPENITENT. You are making this difficult and legalist.
@lllannallll i beleive your the1 thats legalistic,,your making this complicated,,whats the time frame between the trusting and repenting??,,maybe 1 second?LOL..lets do this another way..lets say i'm on my deathbed,,what would u do as a COC member to preach the good news to me?,,u tell me what i must do to inherit eternal life?,,get detailed about this ok?
@uwique "if a person repents..confesses to god of sin he will be saved" I didn't ask that. I said he TRUSTS IN GOD. Get it? He has NOT yet confessed his sin to God, confessed faith in Christ, nor repented. Just hasn't had time. Is the man LOST? a LOST believer?
@lllannallll a person repents..confesses to god of sin he will be saved" I didn't ask that. I i knowe u didnt ask that,,i'm telling you..trust god for what?LOL,,if the person hasnt repented before he dies,,yes hes lost and in hell..if you repent to god,your trusting god to be your savior..repentance and trusting god to be youyr savior is connected
@uwique "not someone who just beleives in an exsistance of god" Oh, I didn't say that, did I? No, this man trusts in Jesus Christ as his saviour, but hasn't yet repented of his sin nor prayed to God. He would have, but died before it was possible. So is he a LOST BELIEVER or not?
@uwique "if the person asked god to forgive him of sin,god will forgive him" Oh, but the guy DIED before he had a chance to ask that, silly. He was just fixin' to pray that, and DIED - he died as a BELIEVER, though. Is he lost? A lost believer?
lets do this,,i'll tell u how i would lead somone to christ on their deathbed,i would tell them to repent of their sins{this has to be genuine though}come and be my savior,and if he means it,he will be saved and have eternal life..now,,your gonna tell me that if a person says that and is sincere about that,that god is going to shun him away??
uwique 2 hours ago
@uwique "lets do this,,i'll tell u how i would lead somone to christ .... " Oh, I know what you'd SAY, but I'm not so sure what the fella might DO - if he's dying. He might just have time to have FAITH, so you'd say he's saved. But he might die before he confesses that faith, prays, repents, etc, so you'd say he's lost. And you'd have to flip a coin on his destiny - you'd be like a Chicago politician: you could take either side.
lllannallll 42 minutes ago
@uwique What church do you go to?
You said that there is only one church in the Bible, that's good that you understand that, now which one is it today?
Remember, they have to have the same doctrine, Paul's teaching
For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
Why does Paul say tongues will cease in 1Cor.13:8, how do you explain that?
Wilsonrdcoc 16 hours ago
@uwique No, friend the bible doesn't say baptizm is a religious ceremony, & sprinkling started more than 500 yrs after the church was built. The NT speaks ONLY on immersion.
And Jesus is saying that if your not baptized your CANNOT enter into the Kingdom of God
Feelings of men, don't overide the commandments of God, He said CANNOT.
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Wilsonrdcoc 16 hours ago
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"what if a person repents to god of his sin..is he forgiven?" What if he reads Jn 3: 16 (which doesn't mention repentance), he "believeth on Him" and "should be saved", but dies before he can repent? Is Jn 3: 16 good enough? Or do you ADD to the recipe?again,,explain "beleive"
uwique 17 hours ago
Jesus told a COC in Revelation
Rev.2:10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Wilsonrdcoc 21 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc if u was to goto someone on their deathbed,how would u preach the gospel to them since god told us christians to go and preach the gospel?
uwique 20 hours ago
It says tongues shall cease.
What are we going to do with this scripture?
No where in the Bible does it say that baptizm for the remission of sins shall cease? But say's it NOW SAVES US!
1Pet.3: 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Wilsonrdcoc 1 day ago
@Wilsonrdcoc for we are saved by grace thru faith,,no baptism here.
uwique 1 day ago
@uwique "for we are saved by grace thru faith,,no baptism here." <-- no repentance there either, is it. What about loving God? Is it there? Confessing faith in Christ? I don't see it specifically mentioned.
lllannallll 1 day ago
@uwique "for we are saved by grace thru faith,,no baptism here." So we'll say your deathbed man is RIGHT THERE. At the point of faith, and has not yet repented of his sins. He dies before repentance, but he has faith. What do you do about Eph 2: 8? Sit him on a stump. Is he a LOST BELIEVER or SAVED WITHOUT REPENTANCE?
lllannallll 1 day ago
@uwique He was talking to already baptized Christians in that verse, not the lost. After baptizm faith must continue in him to be saved by grace. Being born of the water & the blood only happens once.
Jn.3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Wilsonrdcoc 21 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc john 3;3,,he was talking to a pharisee,,lolcmon now!LOl
uwique 17 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc baptism is an indication that your truly saved,its not a divine order from god.
uwique 17 hours ago
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away
Wilsonrdcoc 1 day ago
Speaking in Tongues was in the NT and ONLY the Christians that God chose spoke in different tongues could.
1Cor.12:10, 30 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
But now is obsoltete. Look at 1Cor.13:8
Wilsonrdcoc 1 day ago
@Wilsonrdcoc "Speaking in Tongues was in the NT and ONLY the Christians that God chose spoke in different tongues could." <-- this is incorrect. I have debated the subject for years, and such a view (only a Christian - a saved person - could speak in a 'tongue') will only get you in hot water - not out of it.
lllannallll 1 day ago
@Wilsonrdcoc "But now is obsoltete. Look at 1Cor.13:8" Of course it (tongues) is! Claiming to possess tongues - or that people still do possess miraculous gifts of any kind - is a frontal attack on the all-sufficiency of the written word. Such things CONFIRMED the word, and it now stands - confirmed and certified.
lllannallll 1 day ago
@lllannalll God is not the author of confusion.....For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Speaking in tongues is in the New Testament & so is baptizm, but one must read & understand the other scriptures to validate their acceptance in God's will
John's Baptizm is in the New Testament while Christ walked the earth, but Paul let the Ephesians know that that was obsolete, and they were baptized for the Holy Ghost.
Wilsonrdcoc 1 day ago
@Wilsonrdcoc your right,,god is not the author of confusion,,,your doctrine is.
uwique 1 day ago
@uwique Ok, now the next step for you is to prove that the doctrine is false, because saying "your doctrine is false" in a thousand comments doesn't PROVE ANYTHING.
You must use scripture to help us, even as I just helped you in the comment below. Because men only have to be baptized once in HIS BODY, & then continue in faith to have salvation by grace. We can't just be baptized and stop obeying God, Jesus said in Mtt.24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Wilsonrdcoc 21 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc how about u,,why dont u do the pointing of false doctrine??,,there are alot of christians out there besides people in your church,,judge not lest u be judged,and thats exactly what your doing,,judging,the bible says u will know my people by the fruits they bare,,now i want u to start pointing out all the bad fruit of the churches.
uwique 20 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc Ok, now the next step for you is to prove that the doctrine is false, because saying "your doctrine is false" in a thousand comments doesn't PROVE ANYTHING...niether does your misinterpretation of scripture.
uwique 20 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc ok,,here we go.."baptize"a religiuos ceromony in which water is used as a SYMBOL of cleansing of sin.Churches todaybaptise by sprinkling or immersing in water.Baptism is a SIGN that our sins have been washed away and that jesus has taken us to be his own.
uwique 20 hours ago
Many individuals wait or tarry in false teaching all their life, until they end up old or sick in their death bed, and don't obey the Gospel. Here is what Paul was told in Acts for his sins to be removed.
Acts.22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Now, the Bible doesn't contradict itself, there are many scriptures like this one, and they must be rightly divided with others scriptures to understand God's will.
Wilsonrdcoc 1 day ago
@Wilsonrdcoc Oh, I know full well what Acts 22: 16 says, and he's trying now to answer his own "deathbed" question, and - as near as I can tell - he's trying to say a person believes/trusts in God and repents of his sin/prays to God ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Before it's over, he'll offer definitions that Thayer and Liddell/Scott never heard of.
lllannallll 1 day ago
@lllannallll you tell people on their deathbed to repent of their sins,,according to u its like u have a preliminary before the repentance part,,i'll tell ya,,legalism is horrible.
uwique 1 day ago
@uwique "according to u its like u have a preliminary before the repentance part" CERTAINLY YOU DO! You must have FAITH first. Get it? Faith in God precedes repentance. Godly sorrow for sins induces repentance, and a man can't have Godly sorrow without faith.
lllannallll 1 day ago
@lllannallll ok..since u wanna break this into bits and pieces,,how long is the time span between trusting and repenting?having faith that god will forgive him when he repents or knowing his sins will be forgiven..your really making a project out of simple repentance,,and yes,the important thing is that he/she repents..is there a timeline between trusting and repenting?,when u repent,the grace of god goes into effect,,do u know what grace is?
uwique 1 day ago
@uwique "how long is the time span between trusting and repenting?" It could be very brief, or it could be a long time. Doesn't matter. The fella believed in God, trusted in Jesus, etc., yet DIED prior to repentance. What happened to him? A LOST BELIEVER or a SAVED INPENITENT?
lllannallll 23 hours ago
@uwique "when u repent,the grace of god goes into effect,,do u know what grace is?" Well, then "by grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH." I said the man had FAITH, but died BEFORE he could repent. Now you are coming along, and, I guess, saying "by grace are ye saved through faith" won't work.
lllannallll 23 hours ago
@uwique "your really making a project out of simple repentance." Seems to me that you are. I simply said a man died in the time frame - whether seconds, minutes, hours, days or weeks between faith and repentance. I asked "Is he a LOST BELIEVER or a SAVED IMPENITENT?"
lllannallll 23 hours ago
@lllannallll u must have faith first u say?..yes,,faith that god will forgive u of sin,faith is being sure in what we hoped for,so faith is beleiving god will forgive u.this is not hard u know..lol
uwique 1 day ago
@uwique "u must have faith first u say?..yes" Well, I'm glad you agree that faith comes first - shoot, it HAS to! Alright, this guy has faith. Now it's time to repent. He dies at that point. "By grace are ye saved through faith." He didn't have time to repent. Did faith save him without repentance?
lllannallll 23 hours ago
@uwique "so faith is beleiving god will forgive u.this is not hard u know" Umm .. ok. Well, a person on a deathbed can certainly do that and die before he repents, can't he? So here's a man with faith, but hasn't repented - is he lost?
lllannallll 23 hours ago
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@lllannallll so faith is beleiving god will forgive u.this is not hard u know" Umm .. ok. Well, a person on a deathbed can certainly do that and die before he repents, can't he? So here's a man with faith, but hasn't repented - is he lost?
uwique 20 hours ago
@uwique i guess so,you said it,,if a man doesnt repent before he dies,then yes,he goes to hell.
uwique 20 hours ago
@uwique "i guess so,you said it,,if a man doesnt repent before he dies,then yes,he goes to hell." So you're position is that "by grace are ye saved by faith" is not entirely true, right? You add repentance to it?
lllannallll 18 hours ago
@lllannallll do u know what grace is??grace is basically letting somone off the hook who doesnt deserve it,isnt that scripture understood?when u repent to god,gods grace takes effect and he lets u off the hook by forgiveing you of what u repented of.
uwique 17 hours ago
@uwique "when u repent to god,gods grace takes effect" Well, the guy trusted in Jesus Christ, had faith in God - he had faith. But he simply and unfortunately DIED before he had a chance to repent. You know all that. Is THAT particular person, a person WITH FAITH (Eph 2: 8, "by grace are ye saved through faith). Is THAT person saved without repenting? He died before he could repent.
lllannallll 9 hours ago
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@uwique "when u repent to god,gods grace takes effect" Well, the guy trusted in Jesus Christ, had faith in God - he had faith. But he simply and unfortunately DIED before he had a chance to repent. You know all that. Is THAT particular person, a person WITH FAITH (Eph 2: 8, "by grace are ye saved through faith). Is THAT person saved without repenting? He died before he could repent.
lllannallll 9 hours ago
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@uwique "when u repent to god,gods grace takes effect" Well, the guy trusted in Jesus Christ, had faith in God - he had faith. But he simply and unfortunately DIED before he had a chance to repent. You know all that. Is THAT particular person, a person WITH FAITH (Eph 2: 8, "by grace are ye saved through faith). Is THAT person saved without repenting? He died before he could repent.
lllannallll 9 hours ago
@uwique "whats the man asking god to save him from?" What do you think? His lost condition and the consquences of it. He had to have "faith" in order to ask for that, though. And he died as a BELIEVER, but before he could ask God anything.
lllannallll 18 hours ago
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@lllannallll your right,a person can die on his deathbed before he repents,he also can repent on his deathbed before he dies.
uwique 17 hours ago
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@uwique "when u repent to god,gods grace takes effect" Well, the guy trusted in Jesus Christ, had faith in God - he had faith. But he simply and unfortunately DIED before he had a chance to repent. You know all that. Is THAT particular person, a person WITH FAITH (Eph 2: 8, "by grace are ye saved through faith). Is THAT person saved without repenting? He died before he could repent.
lllannallll 9 hours ago
@uwique i think i said this to u before,,lol..if a man doesnt repent,when he dies,he goes to hell..comprendo?
uwique 17 hours ago
@uwique "i'll tell ya,,legalism is horrible." What's horrible is that you're taking a man who trusts in Christ, believes in God, etc yet HAS NOT YET REPENTED nor confessed Christ nor been baptized, and sending him to Hell - the quoting "for by grace are we saved through faith." See a problem there?
lllannallll 1 day ago
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@lllannallll What's horrible is that you're taking a man who trusts in Christ, believes in God, etc yet HAS NOT YET REPENTED nor confessed Christ nor been baptized, and sending him to Hell - the quoting "for by grace are we saved through faith." See a problem there..no..your making this complicated,,so your telling me the man hasnt repented and hes going to hell?i told u trhat before,people who dont repent will goto hell.
uwique 23 hours ago
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@lllannallll 'll tell ya,,legalism is horrible." What's horrible is that you're taking a man who trusts in Christ, believes in God, etc yet HAS NOT YET REPENTED nor confessed Christ nor been baptized, and sending him to Hell - the quoting "for by grace are we saved through faith." See a problem there?..for by grace you are saved by faith,,i was reffering that baptism s not needed for salvation..for get about that,,stay on tact here.
uwique 23 hours ago
@lllannallll no,,your the 1 that says a person goes to hell if not baptised.
uwique 23 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc why dont u tell me how i dont obey the gospel?i'm a proffessing christian,and i have been baptised before..even though i dont beleive its essential for salvation and i live according to gods plan,,u tell me,,and dont tell me cuase i dont goto the church of christ church either.
uwique 1 day ago
@uwique Jesus only has one Holy Spirit, & in order for that Spirit to stay in an individual they have to keep the same doctrine. 2Jn.1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Now there are different churches who have different doctrines now when you think of names as Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Jehovah's witness, you think of their doctrine.
Wilsonrdcoc 22 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc Now there are different churches who have different doctrines now when you think of names as Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Jehovah's witness, you think of their doctrine.you forgot the church of christ and their doctrine,and yes,,u are a denomination.
uwique 17 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc well..jehovah witnesses are a false religion,mormons are a false religion
uwique 17 hours ago
@uwique Paul didn't want this division we have now with different churches in...
1Cor.1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, & that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Jesus never planned to create different kinds of churches--that's confusion & division!
The Holy Ghost is still on earth, & he is not in agreement with men creating different churches.
Wilsonrdcoc 22 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc do u know what church is not speaking the same thing?..its the COC..the baptists and pentecostals both beleive the same thing and so do the non denom churches,,the only 1 that beleives differently is your church..yes the bible says theres only 1 church,,thats the church of beleivers in christ,,not a certain church like yours..are u guys serious?LOL
uwique 17 hours ago
@uwique At the COC, we are confident & bold that we are the only ONE, & if its not us, then who is it? The Bible says that there is only ONE CHURCH & ONE SPIRIT. Eph.4:4. If not us then who? Because the Holy Ghost doesn't agree with what isn't written or what is not wrongly divided.
Wilsonrdcoc 21 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc thats where your confused,the church of christ is the body of beleivers,,its just not 1 particular church,you guys have taken the bible out of context and started a whole church out of it..lol
uwique 20 hours ago
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@Wilsonrdcoc At the COC, we are confident & bold that we are the only ONE, & if its not us, then who is it? who is it??anyone who loves the lord thy god with all their mind body in soul and lives for christ,,thats the church!
uwique 19 hours ago
@Wilsonrdcoc sorry to say,,but yu are the 1 in the false religion.
uwique 1 day ago
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It is not the name on the outside of the building, it is following God's word. God's plan of salvation. This man is incorrect in what he's saying. The words church of Christ are in the bible, how many churches are there in the bible, 1, "one church", it is not the name on the building. There is only one church of Christ. Those who belong to the church of Christ follow the doctrines of the church in the bible. Enough said.
COC04061 1 day ago
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It is not the name on the outside of the building, it is following God's word. God's plan of salvation. This man is incorrect in what he's saying. The words church of Christ are in the bible, how many churches are there in the bible, 1, "one church", it is not the name on the building. There is only one church of Christ. Those who belong to the church of Christ follow the doctrines of the church in the bible. Enough said.
COC04061 1 day ago
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It is not the name on the outside of the building, it is following God's word. God's plan of salvation. This man is incorrect in what he's saying. The words church of Christ are in the bible, how many churches are there in the bible, 1, "one church", it is not the name on the building. There is only one church of Christ. Those who belong to the church of Christ follow the doctrines of the church in the bible. Enough said.
COC04061 1 day ago
It is not the name on the outside of the building, it is following God's word. God's plan of salvation. This man is incorrect in what he's saying. The words church of Christ are in the bible, how many churches are there in the bible, 1, "one church", it is not the name on the building. There is only one church of Christ. Those who belong to the church of Christ follow the doctrines of the church in the bible. Enough said.
COC04061 1 day ago
@COC04061 church of christ means a body of beleivers,,not a specific church,,are u serious?,,do u guys preach anything right out of the bible?LOL
uwique 1 day ago
be back later,,gotta goto work..peace!!
uwique 2 days ago
god saves u when u repent.
uwique 2 days ago
well..what makes u think there is no repentance in trusting god to save u?,,if your asking god to save u,your repenting.
uwique 2 days ago
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"u become a beleiver in christ when u ask for forgiveness of sin" You become a believer when you place your faith, your confidence in Jesus Christ as your saviour...your saying the same thing i am.
uwique 2 days ago
ok..lets say the person trusts and then beleives second,and then dies without being baptised,,where does he go??stop throwing so much into the question..lol
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "if a person doesnt repent before he dies he goes to hell..and died an unbeleiver." LMAO. A believer who died before he could repent suddenly flips into being an unbeliever? Look, the guy DOES believe. He just died before he could repent or pray to God to save him.
lllannallll 2 days ago
@uwique "lets say the person trusts and then beleives second,and then dies without being baptised" Ok, but we'll just say he dies after trusting/believing but BEFORE repenting of his sins and praying for forgiveness. Just ran outta time. He died as an impentient believer who never had time to pray. But he IS a believer. Is he LOST?
lllannallll 2 days ago
no..i said the person repents but dies before he is baptised,,where does he go?
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "no..i said the person repents but dies before he is baptised" And I said the person TRUST in Jesus Christ, but dies before he repents. Same principle involved, and it seems that you are saying he went straight to hell.
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll if the person asked god to forgive him of sin,god will forgive him,lets see he/she has done that.but has died beofre baptism,,where does he go?
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "trust god for what?" TO SAVE HIM, that's what. He trusts in God to save him, but has not yet repented of his sins, confessed his faith, nor prayed to God to save him. But he DOES believe/trust in Jesus Christ. That's where he stands (or lays) when he dies. And you say he's LOST?
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll ok..lets say the person trusts god to save him and repents of his sins,,but died before baptised..where does he go??..you throw so much into a simple question,,,legalism at its finest..lol
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "lets see he/she has done that.but has died beofre baptism,,where does he go?" Oh, let's just say he trusts in God, but has NOT yet asked Jesus to save him. He was just fixin' to, yet DIED. He died as a BELIEVER who never REPENTED and never yet asked Jesus to save him. And he's a LOST BELIEVER? Tell us.
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll ok..if a person doesnt repent before he dies he goes to hell..and died an unbeleiver.
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "lets say the person trusts god to save him and repents of his sins" No, let's say the person trusts God to save him but HAS NOT YET repented or prayed to God for forgiveness. That's easier. Do you have an NON-REPENTANT man in heaven or a BELIEVER roasting in hell. That's must more reasonable, since we're making it up. Answer it.
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll if a person repents..confesses to god of sin he will be saved,a BELEIVER is someone who serves god,it not someone who just beleives in an exsistance of god..you talk as if you cant trust god and repent in the same sentence,,are u serious?LOL
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "lets say the person trusts and then beleives second" Ok, fine. He woulda repented THIRD, maybe, and prayed FOURTH. But he never lived long enough for 3 and 4. He simply believed and trusted. Is he a lost believer, cuz after all he DID trust and believe.
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll yes,,beleived and trusted god to forgive him of his sin..it seems as if your trying to confuse..lol
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "yes,,beleived and trusted god to forgive him of his sin" <-- yes, right there, he DIED. Without prayer, without repenting, without confessing faith - he DIED. Is he lost?
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll what are u sayin?LOL,,ok,,i think i need to be real specific with u since your legalism gets in the way of u understanding.if he beleived and trusted god to forgive him,,he asked for it,therefore,he repented,,forgivness of sin=repentance.
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "trust god for what?LOL,,if the person hasnt repented before he dies,,yes hes lost" I told you: trust God through Jesus Christ to SAVE him, that's what. So your belief leaves room for a LOST BELIEVER, right?
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll listen,,u become a beleiver in christ when u ask for forgiveness of sin..i think u and me have a different meaning to the word "beleiver"
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "btw,,repentance comes by COnFESSING to god your sin" Well, the fella BELIEVED in God, TRUSTED in Jesus Christ, but DIED BEFORE he got around to CONFESSING sins to God or praying about it. You never really answer - did the man DIE LOST? As a LOST BELIEVER?
lllannallll 2 days ago
@uwique "listen,,u become a beleiver in christ when u ask for forgiveness of sin" No, one must necessarily BELIEVE IN or TRUST IN Christ BEFORE he'd ever THINK of "asking for forgiveness." Belief comes first, prayer would come later.
lllannallll 2 days ago
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@uwique "i think u and me have a different meaning to the word "beleiver"" I'll take the meaning in the lexicons - that'll work for me. So this man TRUSTS IN Jesus, but died before he could ASK for forgiveness or REPENT. But he DOES believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He DOES trust in Christ. Is he lost?
lllannallll 2 days ago
@uwique "u become a beleiver in christ when u ask for forgiveness of sin" You become a believer when you place your faith, your confidence in Jesus Christ as your saviour. THEN you repent, pray, etc. But this guy died without repenting or praying -- he just believed and trusted. Is he lost?
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll ok..let me put this in the same words as u ok?u make this difficult,,its really not hard to understand..beleived asnd trusted in what?,,how does he beleive and trust?
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "beleived asnd trusted in what?,,how does he beleive and trust?" I've TOLD you. He believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, he TRUSTS in Jesus to save him, he has CONFIDENCE in Jesus Christ. He is just about to take the next steps: repent of all his sins and ask (pray) for forgiveness. He DIES. He DIES as a believer. Is he a LOST BELIEVER?
lllannallll 2 days ago
@uwique "i think u and me have a different meaning to the word "beleiver" Perhaps. Tell me yours and give me the references. You can't just "make one up" to suit you, you know.
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll when u repent,,your trusting god as your savior,cuase your asking him to forgive u of your sinfull lifestyle,cuase repenting means "to turn away from",,you turn away from sin..ok..beleived in trusted god for what?
uwique 2 days ago
@lllannallll btw,,repentance comes by COnFESSING to god your sin and sayin your sorry to god
uwique 2 days ago
@lllannallll yes,,beleived and trusted god to forgive him of his sin,,and if he died right after confessing his sin to god {repentance}he would goto heaven.
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "if he beleived and trusted god to forgive him,,he asked for it" No, he DIDN'T. I just SAID he DIED before he had a CHANCE to pray about it. Right before! LOL @ you trying to say belief + trust = prayer.
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll "if he beleived and trusted god to forgive him,,he asked for it" No, he DIDN'T. I just SAID he DIED before he had a CHANCE to pray about it.pray about what?LOL.if the person dies in his sin,he goes to hell..no one becomes a beleiver in christ unless he repentsafter that,he is a beleiver in christ,bleives god will help him,bleives god will answer his prayer,ets.
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique Haha. Is it POSSIBLE that a person believes in/trusts in/has confidence in Jesus Christ yet DIES BEFORE he has a CHANCE to repent of his sins and say a prayer to ask for forgiveness. Is such POSSIBLE?
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll it cmes back to the same answer,,if yu dont repent,and u die,,u goto hell,,whats so hard about this?
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "beleived in trusted god for what?" I've told you FOUR TIMES: the man trusted in/believed in/had confidence in Jesus Christ to SAVE HIM, that's what. Now he's ready to repent of all his sins and ask Jesus, in prayer, to save him. He dies before he can do that - IS HE A LOST BELIEVER?
lllannallll 2 days ago
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@uwique "if yu dont repent,and u die,,u goto hell,,whats so hard about this?" So hard? Nothing. Nothing except that you leave no room for a man trusting in Christ yet dying before he can repent of his sins and pray to God for forgiveness. Best I can tell, you just claim it's IMPOSSIBLE, dont you?
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll oh my!!..the important thing is that the man repents..jesus tells us we need to repent,,well how bout u just tell him to repent..lol
uwique 1 day ago
@uwique "the important thing is that the man repents" I thought you said the important thing was for a man to HAVE FAITH. And he'll have faith before he repents, before he confesses Christ, and before he is baptized. Now you're trying to get legalist and add repentance to it. For shame, for shame.
lllannallll 1 day ago
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@lllannallll the important thing is that the man repents" I thought you said the important thing was for a man to HAVE FAITH,,yes,faith that god will forgive him of sin..how in the world would u try to lead someone to christ if they were on their deathbed?
uwique 23 hours ago
@lllannallll well,,what does the bible say?..doesnt a man need to repent to god in order to have eternal life?..of course he does.
uwique 23 hours ago
@lllannallll..you say the 1st step is trusting in christ??..ok,,trusting christ for what?..trusting christ to save u,,then u say beleives in god,,well..being that i beleive in the trinity,that would be the same,then u say confessing christ,,i beleive that is repentance..i'll put it this way,,if a man repents,he beleives god by faith will forgive him of his sin,thats also confessing christ as savior,now hes your savior after u repent,now if u want to be baptised,then get baptised.
uwique 23 hours ago
@uwique "then u say confessing christ,,i beleive that is repentance" Well, it's not because WITH THE MOUTH confession is made unto salvation - not WITH THE WILLPOWER. Repentance is a mental act of the will - a renouncing of sin. It's not "confession".
lllannallll 22 hours ago
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@lllannallll so faith is beleiving god will forgive u.this is not hard u know" Umm .. ok. Well, a person on a deathbed can certainly do that and die before he repents, can't he? So here's a man with faith, but hasn't repented - is he lost?let me put it this way ok??AHHHHH!!..lolwhen a man repents to god,hes beleiving by faith that god will forgive him of his sin,again,your making it difficult.
uwique 20 hours ago
@uwique your right,a person can die on his deathbed before he repents,he also can repent on his deathbed before he dies.
uwique 20 hours ago
@uwique "your right,a person can die on his deathbed before he repents" Absolutely. So he can die as a believer - a person who has faith - without making it to the next step, right? Is the person a LOST BELIEVER?
lllannallll 18 hours ago
@lllannallll a person who dies on his deathbed,without repenting dies a lost soul and goes to hell.
uwique 18 hours ago
@uwique How about we let the guy live LONG ENOUGH to repent, so you won't be in such a ridiculous position, and we'll let him DIE before baptism? Since we're making it up - and you've certainly indicated that you want him to live long enough to repent - we can do that. That'll let you off the hook, and still demonstrate the weakness of your position.
lllannallll 8 hours ago
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@lllannallll remember..theres an awfull lot of people on their deathbed right now in hundreds of hospices all How about we let the guy live LONG ENOUGH to repent, so you won't be in such a ridiculous position, and we'll let him DIE before baptism? across america,,its too bad your cult church writes them off..your the 1 who has a recipe for salvation,,if i was to lead somone to christ on their deathbed,i would tell them they need ask god for forgiveness of sin,and if he means it
uwique 2 hours ago
@uwique Chalk it up: there is NO PLACE in your doctrine for this fella that trusted in Christ - had faith - yet died before repentance. You haven't got a clue. You'd hate to send him to hell because "by grace through faith", you know. But you can't send him to heaven, either, because "unless ye repent, ye shall perish." Either way, you lose. If you'd like to continue trying, be my guest.
lllannallll 8 hours ago
@lllannallll i'm the 1 who said if he repents before he dies,he goes to heaven,,your the one that says he has no chance cuase he cant be baptised in your church?RIGHT??
uwique 3 hours ago
@uwique "i'm the 1 who said if he repents before he dies,he goes to heaven" Haha. You might have, but you WERE NOT ASKED about "if he repents before he dies", were you? You were ASKED about a man who has faith, trusts in Christ, etc but DIES BEFORE he repents. I wish you'd explain his destiny. Did your verse "by grace are ye saved through faith" work for him?
lllannallll 27 minutes ago
@lllannallll trusted christ for what? forgivness of sin?..had faith in what?knowing god was gonna forgive him when he asked?..you have yet to explain to me how u would explain to someone on their deathbed how to know christ?..you can have faith,trust and repent all in 1 sentence,your ridiculous!!..is this what your church teaches?LOL
uwique 3 hours ago
@uwique "trusted christ for what? forgivness of sin?" Yep. "had faith in what?knowing god was gonna forgive him" Yep. But he still died before he could PRAY about or REPENT. I've repeatedly told you that his faith - his faith only - was sufficient for whatever. He simply never prayed or repented. And you don't know WHAT to do with him.
lllannallll 29 minutes ago
@uwique "you can have faith,trust and repent all in 1 sentence,your ridiculous" Ahh, but tis POSSIBLE to have belief, faith, trust, confidence and DIE BEFORE repentance. Certainly the folks in Acts 2 COULD have done that. It's possible. And you can't explain the destiny of such a person.
lllannallll 25 minutes ago
@lllannallll oh 1 more thing,,if god knows everything before hand,he knows when this person is gonna be saved,he will stay alive until he does what god anticipated him to do,so he knows whose gonna be saved either on their deathbed or in good health,,do u think god would let somone die before repentance if he knew they were truly gonna repent?
uwique 2 hours ago
@uwique "do u think god would let somone die before repentance if he knew they were truly gonna repent?" LOL You mean the same God that wouldn't let them be baptized if He knew they truly wanted to? THAT God? Oh, that lil "argument" falls of its own weight.
lllannallll 36 minutes ago
@lllannallll its time for u to start answering my questions.
uwique 2 hours ago
@uwique "its time for u to start answering my questions." No problem! Which verses would you like to discuss? I learned from your little struggle that it's better to stay outta the ICU ward and just leave the clemency to God. Good grief, I might not do any better than you - and that'd be pretty bad. But if you'd like to stay in the hospice, we will.
lllannallll 3 minutes ago
@lllannallll chalk yourself up..u mean there is no place fof this fella in your doctrine cuase he cant be baptised in your chuch right??,,maybe u cant admit that cuase your starting to see the evil arrogance of it all.
uwique 2 hours ago
@uwique "chalk yourself up..u mean there is no place fof this fella in your doctrine." LOL There's no place for him is YOUR doctrine. He trusted in Christ so he's saved, according to you, but he died before he could repent, so he's lost according to you. Now that's a mess. He had faith - "by grace through faith" - but never confessed Christ, never prayed, never repented - and you have no place for him, unless you sit him on a stump.
lllannallll 50 minutes ago
@uwique "cuase your starting to see the evil arrogance of it all." Umm, no, but I'm sure feeling the inconsistency of your position. "By grace are ye saved through faith." Ok, we'll say the fella had faith. So he's saved, right? But he didn't repent. So he's lost, right? Here again, there again, gone again, Flanagain. You remind me of those kids at a Toga Party, twisting and squirming and down in the floor doing the Alligator.
lllannallll 46 minutes ago
@lllannallll your right,a person can die on his deathbed before he repents" Absolutely. So he can die as a believer -a biblical beleiver or does beleive in an exsistance of a god?
uwique 17 hours ago
@uwique beleiver=christian
uwique 17 hours ago
@uwique And your trouble (as you realize) is this: you have repeatedly quoted John 3: 16 and Eph 2: 8, but you try to redefine "believeth" and "saved by faith" in some odd way as to make repentance inherent in the definition. You arbitrarily ADD TO the definition, because your belief leaves NO ROOM for an unsaved believer. I knew that to start with - I just wanted watch you struggle with it. And you have.
lllannallll 9 hours ago
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@lllannallll your right,a person can die on his deathbed before he repents,he also can repent on his deathbed before he dies.
uwique 20 hours ago
@lllannallll are u not liking how i word this to u?if a man confesses and says hes sorry{repents} to god with his mouth,he will be saved.
uwique 20 hours ago
@uwique "if a man confesses and says hes sorry{repents} to god with his mouth,he will be saved." What if he has faith, but dies right before he can do that? He didn't have TIME to confess .. he didn't have TIME to repent .. but he DID have FAITH. Is this person with faith a LOST BELIEVER? Or not? Yes or no?
lllannallll 18 hours ago
@lllannallll .i explained to u what a beleiver is.
uwique 17 hours ago
@uwique "i explained to u what a beleiver is." Umm .. no. Here's what you TRIED to do: you TRIED to kinda redefine the word in a way to INCLUDE such things as repentance, prayer, etc, yet EXCLUDE baptism. That's not NEARLY what you've attempted ... it IS what you tried. That stunt won't work. Strictly speaking, belief does NOT include repentance, but as a synecdoche, it certainly frequently does. There is NO WAY to slip repentance, prayer and confession IN, and leave baptism OUT.
lllannallll 9 hours ago
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@uwique "if a man confesses and says hes sorry{repents} to god with his mouth" Suppose he's got breathing/feeding tubes in and CAN'T SAY ANYTHING? There's a man who CAN'T POSSIBLY meet your conditions. What happens?
lllannallll 18 hours ago
@uwique "if a man repents,he beleives god by faith will forgive him of his sin" What if he believes/trusts in God and Jesus Christ to save him - yet DIED BEFORE he could repent of his sins? You've yet to answer that.
lllannallll 22 hours ago
@lllannallll bleives/trusts in jesus for what?
uwique 20 hours ago
@lllannallll whats the man asking god to save him from?
uwique 20 hours ago
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@lllannallll "if a man repents,he beleives god by faith will forgive him of his sin" What if he believes/trusts in God and Jesus Christ to save him - yet DIED BEFORE he could repent of his sins? this question is more hypothetical than my deathbed question..lol,usually,in the next sentence, after beleiving/trusting, he repents of sin,this is usually done in 1 sentence/confession.
uwique 20 hours ago
@lllannallll repentance=turning away from sin..let me ask u this?,,what if a person repents to god of his sin..is he forgiven?
uwique 20 hours ago
@uwique "what if a person repents to god of his sin..is he forgiven?" What if he reads Jn 3: 16 (which doesn't mention repentance), he "believeth on Him" and "should be saved", but dies before he can repent? Is Jn 3: 16 good enough? Or do you ADD to the recipe?
lllannallll 18 hours ago
@lllannallll lets say he doesnt read john,and he repents before he dies,,is he going to heaven?
uwique 18 hours ago
@uwique "lets say he doesnt read john,and he repents before he dies" How bout we just leave it at the point where he TRUSTS in Christ, has CONFIDENCE in Christ, BELIEVES in the gospel, and all that, but he kicks the bucket JUST PRIOR to repenting of his sins? How's that? No need in fudging around with silly add-on questions. You can't answer that one. And your favorite deathbed scenario has turned right around on you. That's why hypotheticals are useless.
lllannallll 8 hours ago
@lllannallll hypotheticals??pls stop!!LOL..wherever u live,i can take u to the nearest hospice and show u many people on their deathbed,,do me a favor,stop twisting and turning somthing thats simple to make it not understandable..you have yet to tell me how u would lead somone to christ on their deathbed..or does your church not go there and preach the gospel to them..i dont thinkyur church does much of anything.
uwique 2 hours ago
@uwique "do me a favor,stop twisting and turning somthing" I'm not. I said a man believes in Jesus, he trusts in Christ, he has faith in God - ok, he's a man with faith. You understand that, I'm sure. He died RIGHT BEFORE he repented. He didn't repent. Ok, you understand that. What happens to him? You understand that. Twisting? Turning? Making incomprehensible? Shoot, I made it easy.
lllannallll 33 minutes ago
@uwique "i dont thinkyur church does much of anything." Well, I don't think you or your church can tell us about the man WITH FAITH, but who died WITHOUT repenting. You're totally lost on that. But that's just my opinion, similar to your "i dont think ur church ..." Who cares what you or I "think"? You need to get BACK to the Bible, and AWAY from the ICU ward.
lllannallll 31 minutes ago
@lllannallll for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son thatsowhoever beleives in him,,what do u think that word BELEIVE means??do u think its "ok i beleive in christ have a nice day"..its not like that.
uwique 17 hours ago
@uwique "what do u think that word BELEIVE means?" I'll tell you: pistis (believe, have faith) MEANS "to have confidence in, to trust in, to comply with, to have faith in, to be obedient to, etc" Trouble is: even though that's straight from Thayers/Liddell and Scott, YOU do not accept it. You sorta make up your own definition, out-sourced from the 23rd chapter of your imagination. That's your biggest problem on the whole thing.
lllannallll 9 hours ago
@uwique "do u think its "ok i beleive in christ have a nice day"..its not like that." LMAO ... in the hypothetical case, it was a matter of TIMING - not a matter of SINCERITY. The man absolutely TRUSTED in Christ, but DID NOT confess Him nor repent. That was the scenario. No need in trying to downplay it into a case of poor faith or the like.
lllannallll 9 hours ago
@lllannallll its a simple questionhe repents before he dies,,is he going to heaven?
uwique 17 hours ago
@uwique "its a simple questionhe repents before he dies,,is he going to heaven?" I said he dies WITH FAITH - he is a BELIEVER in Jesus Christ as the Son of God - he trusts in Christ, but he died BEFORE he could repent. Does Eph 2: 8 apply to him, or is he SOL, even though he has faith?
lllannallll 9 hours ago
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@lllannallll faith,,is being sure in what you hoped for,,and is certain of what u do not see..thats the definition of faithits a simple questionhe repents before he dies,,is he going to heaven?" I said he dies WITH FAITH - he is a BELIEVER in Jesus Christ as the Son of God - he trusts in Christ, but he died BEFORE he could repent. Does Eph 2: 8 apply to him, or is he SOL, even though he has faith?,,you want to rphrase your queation now?
uwique 2 hours ago
@uwique BEliever??,,beleives in what?..faith...faith in what?..iot seems your saying faith and beleiving are on the same lines as repentance..dont u think they are all tied together?you mean if he has trust and confidence for god to forgive his sin?
uwique 2 hours ago
@uwique "dont u think they are all tied together?" Of course not. The example proves that. A man can trust in Christ, believe in Christ, have confidence in Christ - and NOT repent of his sins. The believers in Acts 2 were told to repent - when? AFTER they had believed. AFTER they were cut to the heart. AFTER they cried out. No, the two - faith and repentance - are not inseparably linked.
lllannallll 39 minutes ago
@lllannallll the more easy i make it,the more complicated u make it.
uwique 17 hours ago
@uwique "the more easy i make it,the more complicated u make it." Nope, you do because you alter the scenario. I said the man absolutely trusts in Jesus Christ - I've said it 10 times. He trusts in Christ to save him - no need in asking, "What does he trust in" again. He has faith in Christ, confidence in Christ .. his faith is FINE. He simply DIED before he could REPENT or CONFESS Christ - and you are saying THAT MAN is eternally LOST? Yes or NO.
lllannallll 9 hours ago
@lllannallll now i think its your turn to answer my questions.
uwique 17 hours ago
@lllannallll listen,,i apologise to u if i offended u in anyway,,i lose my cool somtimes and i know i shouldnt,,i think we can debate in a rational way ok?
uwique 1 day ago
@uwique So this dying person BELIEVES in Christ, TRUSTS in Christ, but has not yet repented of his sins, confessed Christ, nor been baptized. He is at the point of "faith only." "For by grace are ye saved through faith." He dies without repenting, but he has faith. Is he saved or lost?
lllannallll 1 day ago
@uwique "sorry to say,,but yu are the 1 in the false religion." Oh, c'mon. You have the scenario: a man trusts in Christ, but has yet to confess his faith or repent of his sins. He died right before he could. But, yes, he believed in/trusted in Christ - just ran outta time. Is he a LOST BELIEVER or a SAVED IMPENITENT. You are making this difficult and legalist.
lllannallll 1 day ago
@lllannallll i beleive your the1 thats legalistic,,your making this complicated,,whats the time frame between the trusting and repenting??,,maybe 1 second?LOL..lets do this another way..lets say i'm on my deathbed,,what would u do as a COC member to preach the good news to me?,,u tell me what i must do to inherit eternal life?,,get detailed about this ok?
uwique 23 hours ago
@uwique "if a person repents..confesses to god of sin he will be saved" I didn't ask that. I said he TRUSTS IN GOD. Get it? He has NOT yet confessed his sin to God, confessed faith in Christ, nor repented. Just hasn't had time. Is the man LOST? a LOST believer?
lllannallll 2 days ago
@lllannallll a person repents..confesses to god of sin he will be saved" I didn't ask that. I i knowe u didnt ask that,,i'm telling you..trust god for what?LOL,,if the person hasnt repented before he dies,,yes hes lost and in hell..if you repent to god,your trusting god to be your savior..repentance and trusting god to be youyr savior is connected
uwique 2 days ago
@uwique "not someone who just beleives in an exsistance of god" Oh, I didn't say that, did I? No, this man trusts in Jesus Christ as his saviour, but hasn't yet repented of his sin nor prayed to God. He would have, but died before it was possible. So is he a LOST BELIEVER or not?
lllannallll 2 days ago
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@uwique "if the person asked god to forgive him of sin,god will forgive him" Oh, but the guy DIED before he had a chance to ask that, silly. He was just fixin' to pray that, and DIED - he died as a BELIEVER, though. Is he lost? A lost believer?
lllannallll 2 days ago