Gov. Barbour: Forget Obamacare, Get Medicare Healthy

[mosiprop]

Fiscal responsibility is not coldhearted Some fools here seem to think everyone can have everything without doing anything, forever. What lazy, selfish, moronic jerks! It is compassionate to plan for the well-being for future generations to manage the programs responsibly. Taxing the children & the unborn is immoral. Profanity spewing idiots cannot change facts. So what if you can't retire 'til 70? Better that than destroying the future of this great republic..

[mosiprop]

Fiscal responsibility is not coldhearted, as some fools here think. It is compassionate to plan for the well-being for future generations to manage the programs responsibly.. Taxing the children & the unborn is immoral... nothing more nefarious than that.. profanity spewing idiots cannot change facts.

[MrMvt333]

you dumbass governor, no wonder mississippi continues to be the worst fucking state in america

[MrMvt333]

umm.... social security has been THE BEST retirement fund, simply because it is inflation adjusted... god what a moron, and Now he is cutting healthcare for teachers... i hate this man, what a fucking fool

[MrMvt333]

raise the social security age to 70!!!! are you kidding me... look the increase in age is not as big as you think, it is very marginal outside of the benefits of modern medicine in the forms of child birth and infant mortality... good god what a moron

[Redfingers]

All I'm saying is maybe, just MAYBE it's unethical to be selfish and ask for more money from the government. Maybe, just maybe, it's time to start thinking about our value to society as individuals.

And maybe education is a GOOD investment, whereas throwing money at old people's health problems is a BAD investment. I know you feel bad for old people, but what I need you to do is channel that empathy into poor people, college students, and children because they have POTENTIAL.

[Redfingers]

The point behind Medicaid is that it's a security net for people. Just because a poor person gets a health ailment, that doesn't mean he's going to be a useless slob and accumulate health defects for the rest of his life. For a geriatric, we might be talking about a few years of his life at the expense of hundreds of thousands of dollars of the public's money.

Do you really think we need to be paying for an old person's fucking Hoveround?

[LeLimeLine]

Entitlements are awesome. This is why we Americans have government, so they can provide us services.

[LeLimeLine]

It's nice to see Cameron from Ferris Beuler's Day Off is getting work.

[angryislander56]

gawd ferbid thar'd be a conversation 'bout the cost of empire

[hasatum]

@16242T I'm not sure that working your ass off to become a governor qualifies as living in a world of entitlement. Some things are earned; talent and hard work count for something regardless of whether they are used for good or ill.

[machogun]

inept asshole. fuck that guy. human beings will NEVER succeed in an egotistical society. we HAVE to help each other and cooperate if we are to do great things, and STOP being so fucking selfish and cold-hearted. If the school systems and all other forms of propagandistic indoctrination don't stop pushing egoism on our children, we will never escape these dangerous binds.

[artformeandyou]

@machogun Hating a hater is still hating, thus you are a hater.

[machogun]

@artformeandyou i'm absolutely a hater. i hate those who despise their fellow human, want everything for themselves, and want to see the world burn if it makes them a buck.

[Gulfporter]

Politicians need to standardize measures. One says, "They cut Program X by 50 billion dollars." What they don't tell you is that that's expressed over ten years. They do this both ways to make for drama. If they improve something, they quote the ten year improvement, if they fuck something up, they fuck it over 20 years or 5 years, whichever makes the other party look worse.

Knock it off you motherfuckers. We're sick of it.

Single Payer healthcare now. It's the responsible thing to do. 

[Tones4me1]

Obama had to do that because your friend Bush spent trillions on unfounded wars. And his daddy let elderly people move here from India and get on OUR Social Security. Then they gave any Indian who wanted to own a motel or 7-11 interest free loans. If you find out who & why they did this then you will find a traitor to our country because we have been going down hill rapidly since then.

[FlowerClown]

They never cut spending on the war machine.

AGE 70 ? FU! Why not lower it and let people enjoy life.

banks gamble with our money. no way!

SS tax end after the first $100K of income. End the RICHs SS tax break and you will save SS but that is not going to happen, only cut services for the poor and make them work till they die. Another / Same GOP plan.

[jagawa]

There they go again LYING about the 500K "cut" from Medicare. The 500K figure came from the Obama admin after they reviewed Medicare and found over 500K in wasteful practices and policies. Listen to these repubs turn a huge well deserved plus of the Obama administration, for accomplishing what the repubs are always saying they want to do - cut out the waste in government - into a negative by straight out LYING! Haley knows what the truth is. SHAME ON YOU HALEY the LIAR!

[dac8555]

Entitlement? Telling Insurance company that they ahev to actually do what they say they are going to do and cvoer poeple is an entitlement? Not allowing them to drop you or your 6 year old kid dying oc cancer is an entitlement? No, you paid for the benefit. it is not an entitlement it is a busines transaction.

[zayadnay]

full social security be delayed to age 70?!! are you fucking insane? the average male dies at 78! so you want the poor guy to have only 8 years of relaxation and peace of mind?! wow these corporate republicans are just nuts!

[czubspenx]

Another politician doing the blame game. When will the general public ever wake up? Never, I'm sure.

[ananiasacts]

Why oh why do all leaders sound like such worthless scoundrels? When are we going to develop the civic technologies we need to find competent leadership?

[derfilmmacher]

This guy would be thrown in jail for lying if he were your CPA. What these old farts don't realize is that if old people have to work into their 70s, then young people have less job opportunities. I talked to a pharmacy student who told me her job prospects are worse because pharmacists are scared to retire. These guys should look at their 30 year track record: destroyed our wages, destroyed our manufacturing base, put us into record debt through war & tax cuts for the rich. They suck.

[verstwo2]

wow, how much misinformation can you pack into 3 mins?

[Robfenix]

Barbour: 'You can't say 'We're going to cut spending, but not entitlements'"

Me: Bullshit. I propose halving the Pentagon budget. There. Done.

[hasatum]

@Robfenix Sorry, it's an unpleasant fact but shrinking America's military standing in the world would likely lead the dollar to crash. You'd get no entitlements if that were to happen. If you want to cut the military and save the dollar, you have to bring back industry. That won't happen unless you accept lower wages or somehow usher in a wave of new innovation.

[eirefrance]

"Ya gotta control entitulmunt spendin!'"

Where the fuck was this concern in 2003? Does this douchebag (and all you fuckers taking his side) even know why Medicare is facing difficulty? I mean Medicare Part D is only expected to cost a $1 trillion, specifically because lobbyist friendly Republican designed it that way. I've had it with you fake ass tea parrtiers. The next one to say the words Obama & deficit to me, I'm gonna punch him in his fucking face.

[marsCubed]

This argument is akin to suggesting we fix a car wreck with a new coat of paint.. thick cheap paint, lots of it.. it is the only thing he knows.

Spending on USA education and health systems is broken by conservative theft, pouring money into corp hands is not even socialized in the areas it is supposedly socialized.

Bonuses, perks, & they only want to go to Florida to treat the rich.

Kick the private thieves and scams out of education and healthcare.

Seriously USA, get a clue.

[Redfingers]

And for the record:

"Nora Super, AARP's top lobbyist, confronted doomsday predictions on conservative TV and radio suggesting that the $500 billion in Medicare cuts will mean a drastic loss of benefits and access.

Without action, Medicare's rising costs are unsustainable and would threaten its very future, she said speaking with reporters in a nationwide conference call. She called the cuts "savings."

[Redfingers]

I watched a goddamn commercial for the "Hoveround" where they gleefully assured their potential customers (old people too lazy or too impotent to walk around their own house) that the overwhelming majority of seniors that apply to receive one don't have to pay a cent.

The government budget in education, meanwhile, shrinks, and we cut Medicare and bitch about entitlements for medicine e.g. "Obawrmacare," while this fuck's mother rides around in her backyard in a tax-subsidized Hoveround.

[Redfingers]

This son of a bitch literally sits here and boasts about controlling ballooning Medicaid costs. I have news for you, buck, poor people don't have money for health care. When they don't receive health care, they die. When they die, they can't feed their children, and their health suffers. How does this contribute to social welfare?

Conversely, how does it contribute to social welfare to cry crocodile tears over a bunch of people getting a hip replacement and a heart translant and then asking more

[Redfingers]

FUCK Medicare.

FUCK you greedy old pieces of shit. You don't deserve any more money, shut up and die to your half-dozen illnesses already. Jesus Christ.

Medicare is insolvent, and it's useless. We might as well throw all our money in a giant pit and burn it. Old people are not productive and they're not an investment. They're also not valuable. They contribute nothing culturally or materially to society. Plus, they stink, and they whine, AND they voted for George Bush. Fuck 'em.

[eirefrance]

@Redfingers Medicare is insolvent for a reason, and its not because of old people. Its because the same Republican politicians now lapping up this ignorant tea party anger pass a prescription drug bill which pharmaceutical lobbyists paid them to say prevented Medicare from negotiating prices, despite the fact that, as a huge customer, Medicare could have paid what it wanted. Now, we face $1trillion in Medicare deficits and lying redneck fuckers blame "Obawrr-muh".

[Redfingers]

@eirefrance

Corporatism, that's the real philosophy of the Republican party.

[derfilmmacher]

@eirefrance Hilarious. The Republicans can't cut entitlements because it generates too much money for Big pharma and is a dumping ground for health insurers. The Repubs just want to deliver subpar care, while letting big pharma milk medicare.

[Tones4me1]

@derfilmmacher It goes deeper than that. They get it coming and going. They also own food manufacturing companies. They feed us shit that makes us fat & unhealthy, THEN they sell us medication to combat their affect. And the politicians profit from protecting them.

[machogun]

@Redfingers you're a cold, ignorant, narcissistic prick.

[Redfingers]

@machogun

Oh really? Why's that? Because I care more about children and poor people and about the health of society than the ability of a bunch of self-entitled old people receiving government entitlements in addition to their own retirement funds to beg for even more money to handle their mounting and eventually unsupportable ailments?

Ignorant? Really? What grounds do you have to call me ignorant, anyway?

And narcissistic...first of all, I would die for a child. I wouldnt ask for entitlements

[dougdad2]

@Redfingers what about your grandparents; parents???? You must be a young fool to not think about when you get to be a senior with ailments. You are very foolish and ignorant person wake up and smell the roses

[Redfingers]

@dougdad2

I will step out and die that my children might prosper. I would step out and die that society might prosper.

If I become an unsustainable burden on society, I have no right to become indignant and start bitching for more money, but that is exactly what seniors have been doing through the AARP for decades upon decades.

Anybody ever heard of a goddamn retirement fund? How about social security? Health insurance? Pensions? The fuck do we need Medicare for?

[youneac]

He's right! If every poor person in the US would just keep US$1,000,000 or more in their savings account, they'd be covered for any medical expense much better than with social health care.

[polymath7]

I think this makes`something like three dozen videos in a row from Fora that are of *absolutely no substance whatever*, and Fora's extended act of fellatio on the Hoover institute has become more than tiresome.

For Christs's sake the Hoover institute has its OWN fucking channel (which of course they heavily censor).

Clearly a certain segment of the world stopped thinking some time ago.

To the management at Fora:

Please, each one of you, kindly fuck off and die, preferably from stomach cancer.

[almend1014]

@polymath7 couldn'd have said it better myself

[polymath7]

@almend1014  ;-)

[CharBroiled04]

@polymath7

I think this had plenty of content... it might not be content you want to hear, but content nonetheless. I also applaud them for their balance. I'm liberal-leaning, but even I have become (of late) a little disappointed in the level of blatant liberal pandering on the part of ForaTV.

[polymath7]

@CharBroiled04

You're quite right that it isn't the content I want to hear, for I want to hear views with which I disagree stated clearly and at their strongest, the better to evaluate them and decide if it is necessary to amend or adjust my own.

Here there is simply nothing to evaluate.

An obese, redbacked southern swine of a politician making bald assertions with not the thinnest supporting argument or evidence.

Worthless.

Absolutely fucking worthless.

[eirefrance]

@CharBroiled04 Are you joking? Blatant liberal leaning? Why, because once a week, they have one video discussing global warming, followed by 12 Hoover Institute videos where the guest can literally lie, and Peter Robinson smiles his douchey smile and nods?

[almend1014]

lol...if i see another of these vids i'll unsubscribe.....when the question is basically "Why are you so right", no matter how much he makes up, the ass-clown reporter will never cal him out on it.

[polymath7]

@almend1014

He's not a reporter. He's a fucking eunuch in the service of a conservative think tank.

[goog2k]

@AussiePolitics Thanks.

That's what I thought. You expressed yourself very well.

Oops!!!

[joel1923]

Obamacare is not socilaized medicine. It's a scam to enrich the insurance companies. I'm tired of the crap.

[goog2k]

@AussiePolitics Sorry fool. It's you who still doesn't understand.

Barbour, a former professional Insurance industry lobbyist, is a LIAR who spews propaganda. The Hoover Institute is a neo-con propaganda mill, full of pathetic B.S. - just like your AUSSIE friend Murdoch at FOX News.

ForaTV should be ashamed disseminating such claptrap.

That's the point, dummy!

[AussiePolitics]

@goog2k you idiot ALL of the politicians and special interest groups spew out their OWN propaganda. just because you disagree with his propaganda does not make fora in the wrong. I've heard naomi klein on fora tv. the woman is doing exactly the same thing as him.

[goog2k]

@AussiePolitics I'm not familiar with Naomi Klein, but if she lies as much as Haley Barbour and FOX News, then ForaTV should also be ashamed for disseminating her lies.

[AussiePolitics]

@goog2k she is the leftwings biased version of fox news personified in one person. the point is that its GOOD to hear from people of different perspectives because even if you think they are biased as all fuck and lie then at least it helps you understand better where they're coming from and how they influence people. thats why its interesting and thats why fora does it.

[goog2k]

@AussiePolitics Sorry, freedom of speech does NOT mean freedom to LIE.

Republican politics, especially since Reagan & the Willie Horton ad, have been based on the BIG LIE.

FOX News & your Aussie friend Murdoch is a perfect example of the BIG LIE.

If you haven't seen that, you're a hopeless fool.

[AussiePolitics]

@goog2k "If you haven't seen that, you're a hopeless fool"

over the past few comments almost everyone one i have said THEY LIE. are you fucking blind? im sick of talking to someone who doesnt even bother to read what I say and makes shit up.

they all lie, they all mislead because they're all fucking biased. but THATS THEIR POINT OF VIEW. freedom of speech means people have the freedom to say what the FUCK THEY WANT.

[goog2k]

@AussiePolitics Thank you for admitting you are so accepting of your buddies' LIES - Barbour, Hoover Institute, Murdoch, FOX News.

That's the POINT!

Instead you should be ashamed of their lies.

[AussiePolitics]

@goog2k "Thank you for admitting you are so accepting of your buddies' LIE"

ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED YOU FOOL? have i EVER at ANY point said I agreed with them or anything they stand for? no. you are too fucking retarded to understand this tho. I have said getting many peoples perspectives on an inherently biased topic is a good thing.

you are an idiot. you have not understood a single thing i have said since you obviously believe i am defending them. grow the fuck up you fool.

[goog2k]

@AussiePolitics  I understand quite well.

You thought you were standing up for the grand principle of "free speech" when, in fact, you were just defending bad journalism, disseminating lies & propaganda in the name of "free speech." -- and you still can't distinguish the difference. My condolences.

LOL!!!

[AussiePolitics]

@goog2k no, you did not understand at all, thats why you were making stupid ignorant comments about them being my buddies. you obviously believe that anyone who disagrees with you is "on the other side" which is just pathetic.

"defending bad journalism" WHAT FUCKING JOURNALISM? LOL there is NO journalism here. all it is are people speaking from different perspectives, but you obviously want to ban anyone who has a different opinion to you.

[goog2k]

@AussiePolitics And you still think your AUSSIE buddy, Rupert Murdoch & FOX News is just journalism & freedom of speech.

FOX News organizes it's own political rallies and fund raising events. That is NOT journalism. FOX is just another neo-con propaganda mill - just like the HOOVER INSTITUTE masquerading as objective opinion.

What a lame brain.

[eirefrance]

@AussiePolitics Because Naomi Klein has been on Fora maybe twice, I can't complain when Haley "Lying Pig" Barbour lies?

[AussiePolitics]

@eirefrance no i never said that, but when people complain about groups they disagree with being on fora its just bloody stupid. and yes, it is an alternative point of view and its worth listening to even if you think they're a bunch of lying fuckwits because at the very least you'll understand what a large number of americans are thinking.

[eirefrance]

@AussiePolitics I agree, and I haven't unsubscribed from Fora for a reason. But I want real ideas, not just rehashing an unchallenged lie from Haley Barbour.

[AussiePolitics]

@goog2k idiots like you are the leftwing version of fox news viewers. they think everyone in the world is biased against them and dont want to hear anyone elses views. grow the fuck up. fora tv is intend to bring people a large range of views and ideas. almost EVERYONE has a bias especially on political issues but its bullshit to single out one group's bias and ban it.

[CharBroiled04]

@AussiePolitics

I'm with AussiePolitics on this one. I don't agree with Neo-Cons or Conservatives at large, usually. But the things I've been seeing on Fora seem to be representative of the type of Conservative arguments that at least have the semblance of making sense. To compare what Fora has been doing/showing to Fox News is idiotic, and neither I nor AussiePolitics has to agree with the content to think it's good that Fora is showing it.

You need to learn that it's okay to be offended.

[cadude145]

I love it when people can take facts and just rearrange them. Sure have a war and put in tax cuts, shows real fiscal restraint. On his entitlements, what about Welfare for the military, Entitlements take like 8 cents from each dollar of taxes spent not much considering. And everyone renews their 1931 Medical yearly. I wish I was 1/2 as important as he thinks he is.

[swankrecords]

Barbour is bonehead.

[drchiodo]

@swankrecords You seem to be very intelligent. Do you take supplements to get that good at verbal discord?

[freesk8]

Repeal Obamacare.

Repeal Medicare as well.

Give us a free market in health care.

Let private charities help the poor.

Let the free market drive down costs so more of the poor can afford more care, and basic insurance, and so that private charities can help more of the poor.

Wanna harm the poor? Give the govt more power in the health care and health ins industries.

[666norton420]

@freesk8 oh my, you're quite insane! no wonder your country is going down the toilet!

;d

[freesk8]

@666norton420 Wow. I could find no rational statement in your reply above. Only ad hominem attack. If you want to win an argument, my friend, you will have to do better than that.

Why not address an issue?

Perhaps you can't?

[hitheresunshine]

@freesk8

That actually makes no sense.

You realize that insurance companies make money from insuring the healthy and dropping the sick, right?

All the free market has done so far is drive up the costs.

[freesk8]

@hitheresunshine No, they make money by satisfying customers, who tend to hear if their ins co drops the sick.

Free market competition tends to drive down costs.

Govt regulation tends to increase costs.

That's basic economics, and represents the actual history of thousands of other product markets.

Cell phones, cars, TVs, lasic surgery, hair cuts, etc. are now cheaper and better. Why? Free market competition. Not govt regulation.

[CharBroiled04]

@freesk8

The average person isn't going to choose their insurance company based on how they treat people with pre-existing conditions... they're going to do it based on the cost and the quality of care. And then the sick get.... FUCKED. But that's okay right? The strong survive and the economy and country are better as a whole for it.

[freesk8]

@CharBroiled04 That works for cars and computers, right? Yet consumer reports tells us which cars have the best reliability ratings. Only some of us shop on that basis, but the few who do are the marginal customers that corps compete to get. It tends to improve product and service quality for all of us.

The reason ins co service sucks and prices rise is that the govt colludes with them to preserve their power and protect them from competition.

[CharBroiled04]

@freesk8

You think that any sort of gap between revenues and costs in a private industry is going to end with prices being dropped? *sigh*

[freesk8]

@CharBroiled04 Over time, yes, as long as there is competition.

And the greatest hurdle to competition is often govt regulation.

Regulators pass laws that tend to be advantageous to the largest corps.

Small entrepreneurs and start-ups tend to have a harder time dealing with paperwork and regulations. So regs wind up protecting big corps from new corps.

[freesk8]

@CharBroiled04 The gap between corporate revenues and corporate costs is dwarfed by the waste that we would have if the govt ran it as a monopoly, which is where we are headed now.

Corp profits run in the 3% to 10% range depending on the corp and the industry. Yet govt waste is north of 30% in the best-run govt agency.

It's a bad deal for consumers; especially for the poor.

And service quality tends to be much worse for govt bureaucracies than for corps.

Post office or DMV vs McDonalds?

[DoctrinaBytes]

Gov. Babour is an ex-lobbiest for the tobacco industry. You want more of his advice regarding health care? Hoover institute is brazen

[Xwowplaya]

How on earth can a republican say democrats have to cut spending? Does he forget about the bush debacle?

[hitheresunshine]

Him? Of all people?

I immediately discredit people who call it "Obamacare".

Here's an idea: Let's stop "nation-building" overseas an focus that money over here instead. What's the point of a broken nation trying to build another one?

We can't help anyone until we can help ourselves.

[freesk8]

@hitheresunshine I agree with you on ending nation-building. But Obama doesn't. And Obama supports efforts to kill US citizens suspected of terrorism abroad without bringing them home to stand trial. Obama is almost as much of a hawk as Bush was. And you are right that such misguided efforts are bankrupting us.

But if you want to help the poor get jobs and get more help, we should slash entitlements and taxes so that jobs can be created and GDP and wages can grow.

[hitheresunshine]

@freesk8

You really are an idiot. Taxes HAVE been slashed, since 2003 (or 2001, if you include those cuts), and where has it gotten us? In this ditch, that's where.

What needs to happen for jobs to be created is we need to give tax incentives to companies that keep the jobs in America, and place heavier taxes on those who export jobs overseas. To them, it's about the profit: it's cheaper to have labor over there. We need to make it cheaper for them to employ HERE.

[freesk8]

@hitheresunshine Bush's tax cut was tiny. It was much smaller than Democrat Kennedy's in the '60's. Spending has gone through the roof, and this has ballooned the deficit and debt. R's and D's are equally responsible for this irresponsibility.

But free trade actually INCREASES employment on both sides of borders.

Look up Ricardo's Theory of Comparative Advantage for a proof. Note: it is a proven theory, like Darwin's. Not just an unproven hypothesis.

[lordnuck33]

You know a better option would be to raise tax rates of the wealthy.

[freesk8]

@lordnuck33 This would actually wind up hurting the poor more than it helped them.

[Phelan666]

"The idea that you can't cut entitlement spending..."

The active word being ENTITLEMENT. Meaning ENTITLED. AKA it is not YOUR money to take. It is ENTITLED to us. We paid for it. Taking money from ENTITLEMENT programs is THEFT.

Medicare/cade spending is out of control because Bush cut the govt's ability to control the pharma industry and now they are charging outrageous prices. But, being a republican, this idiot would rather get the rich richer and suffocate the "lower" classes.

[goog2k]

FAIL!!! ForaTV

I am soooo sick of this Hoover Institute PROPAGANDA!

The U.S ranks 32nd in overall health care, just behind Costa Rica? Every other industrialized nation has 'universal health care' at half the cost??

Avg. U.S. cost is $6,000+ per person. Avg. in Japan, France, Britain, Italy, Germany, etc., is $3,000 per person or less.

Some countries use government run systems. Some, like Japan, use private "non-profit" insurance. All have complete coverage at half the cost.

[Phelan666]

@goog2k *Facepalm*

ForaTV did not say these things.

[AussiePolitics]

@goog2k why? we get plenty of very leftwing groups on fora as well. its nice to hear things from a range of perspectives. just because you dont like having to listen to alternate points of view doesnt mean you have to bitch about it

[goog2k]

@AussiePolitics Barbour used to be a paid LOBBYIST for the Insurance companies. LOL!!!

Sorry, I just hate LIARS. ( I know, my bad.)

[AussiePolitics]

@goog2k most politicians either were or end up becoming lobbyists for one group or another. both sides like to scream about how the others are liars/corrupt blah blah. i dont really give a shit, what i do get annoyed by is people bitching about fora showing a range of views which is good. the leftwingers that fora shows bend the truth and can be every bit as dishonest as the rightwingers

[goog2k]

@AussiePolitics LOL!!!

You sound as confused as another Aussie who has trouble with the truth over at FOX News.

[AussiePolitics]

@goog2k dont drag up utter bullshit. did i say ANYTHING about fox news? no. i said that dickheads who go around pretending that one side peddles bullshit, lies and propaganda and the other one is pure is a fool. to complain because fora shows one video from an obviously biased video is incredibly childish because there are many other interesting and equally biased videos from a range of perspectives.

grow up, you're obviously the confused one because you didnt even understand what i said.

[eirefrance]

@AussiePolitics Hoover isn't an "alternative" point of view. Please, for the love of god, bring on some thinking conservatives who are willing to discuss issues. Hoover IS NOT THAT. It's self-congratulatory circle jerking where nothing gets challenged.

[lianghaochen]

here is an idea for a balanced budget: stop spending so much on war and military

[freesk8]

@lianghaochen The US 2010 federal budget had about 19% of spending on the military. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other welfare programs were about 60% of total spending. The budget deficit of 1.5 trillion is about 40% of the total budget of $3.5 trillion.

We need to cut BOTH military and entitlement programs if we are to save our government from bankruptcy.

[blackiron60]

Americans have never figured out how to handle healthcare - hence why they have multiple programs each costing billions and billions of dollars. Canada and the UK have just one program, it covers everyone, it costs way less, and involves less bureaucracy. If America had gone down that road it wouldn't have this problem now.

[seamoremonster]

This guys fails to mention that 2% of the people in the US own 87% of wealth. That the gap between rich and poor is larger than it's ever been and the middle class is rapidly disappearing and Conservatives want to continue the Bush Tax cuts to the wealthy. So take away Social Security from working people who have paid into it all their lives, can medicare and the public health so the rich can get richer and we can maintain a military presence through out the world to protect their interests?

[LibertyDownUnder]

@seamoremonster, this is true all around the world but I think you're blaming the wrong people.

With lower taxes and less regulations - the low and middle class can compete more easily.

At the moment, banks, corporations and governments work together which creates all this equality.

Watch this video by John Stossel for more: /watch?v=2sSg0xjzIec

[seamoremonster]

@LibertyDownUnder Can't agree. Clinton left the US in surplus now take a look at the US Deficit since the Bush Tax Cuts to the Top 2%.

This not true all around the world. The Gap between rich and poor is not so extreme in France, New Zealand, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden or even Australia. The only place you find such an enormous disparity between rich and poor is in Third World Countries. Sorry but Reaganomics and the myth of Trickle Down Economics has been shown to be a sham.

[LibertyDownUnder]

@seamoremonster, True, Clinton was much more responsible with spending.

And again, true, the disparity in the US is higher than many other places.

But I think you're blaming the wrong people.

High income taxes hurt big domestic employers - not the big stock market speculators, hedge fund managers etc which can take their profits to tax havens.

Businesses are fleeing the US, and if these taxes are not cut, things will get much worse, especially for those who need a new job.

[seamoremonster]

@LibertyDownUnder Much worse? You're joking? These are the guys who caused it. I agree with Obama's bail out of the Chrysler and GM but this is different. What they're screaming about tax when there's 11% plus unemployment, people can't pay their mortages? They're screaming about taxes when they send labor offshore? This whole debt thing started with Bush who initiated the very policies you are spruking.

[LibertyDownUnder]

@seamoremonster, I'm not defending Bush's policies.

But you're taking things like: jobs and business activity for granted.

If you raise taxes, you'll get less jobs - always happens.

.

If you cut Government spending, and lower taxes - you'll get more jobs. Always happens.

If you have some spare time: take a look at this one:

/watch?v=czcUmnsprQI

He explains it much better than me.

[freesk8]

@LibertyDownUnder Seamore is correct. Govt spending and taxation BOTH destroy jobs. Even the govt spending destroys jobs by crowding out private sector activity that would have produced more jobs. Stimulus and "shovel ready" govt spending projects actually hurt the poor.

But they do help unionized govt contractor employees who wanted payback for helping Obama get elected...

[LibertyDownUnder]

@freesk8, I agree with you...

You sure you meant to write that to me?

[freesk8]

@LibertyDownUnder Oops. You are right. I meant to say that YOU are correct, and Seamoremonster is wrong. Thanks! :)

[lianghaochen]

@LibertyDownUnder this economic crisis is largely created by the lack of regulation in financial sector, predatory lending did not help the middle class and lower.

[LibertyDownUnder]

@lianghaochen, the US financials is the most heavily regulated industry in the world. The regulators themselves thought up most of these easy loans - then blamed the market when it all fell apart.

Please watch this one by Thomas Sowell (only 3 min): /watch?v=E1KwkScA540

What do you think about it?

[lianghaochen]

@LibertyDownUnder dude, i like you, i think you are a nice and polite person, but you gotta look outside the conservative circle.

[LibertyDownUnder]

@lianghaochen, nothing to do with conservative or not.

If you had a good idea and were looking to open a new business and hire people - would you prefer to do it in a place with high taxes & regulations?

[lianghaochen]

@LibertyDownUnder if i were a capitalist, i would look for a place where there is no labor law, no environmental protection law, no regulation and tax, and i guaranteed you, if such place exists(provided they have acceptable infrastructure and stable political environment), all companies would flock there.

but would you want to live and work in such place?

[LibertyDownUnder]

@lianghaochen, as long as it's not polluted - then yes. And so did just about everyone that came to the USA from about 1800 to the 1920s.

Not sure what you mean by 'if I were a capitalist'. I asked if you had a good idea and wanted to open a business. Like if you invented a cheap solar panel etc.

Free markets let you do as you wish as long as you don't harm others (which pollution does).

Would you prefer to live in a place that restricts this activity?

[seamoremonster]

@LibertyDownUnder Look you seem like a reasonable person, but this tax thing is the Conservative Mantra. It has been tried and it simply doesn't work. The seeds for the US economic downfall go beyond Bush...they begin with Reagan. And since that time we've seen a steady erosion in the quality of education social services and the eminent extinction of the middle class. You can get all kinds of references to support you view as i can with mine but Today's reality supports mine.

[LibertyDownUnder]

@seamoremonster, again, this isn't about political parties or candidates.

Why would you raise tax on businesses in a downturn?

So the Government can take it - and do what? Encourage more businesses to hire people?

Unemployment barely existed in the 19th century, when Government spending was a fraction of what it is now (around 3% of GDP I think).

[seamoremonster]

@LibertyDownUnder Why would you use a Government Stimulus Package to save GM and Chrysler? Because it worked. Because it saved millions of jobs. Why would you raise taxes? Because our brain dead predecessor cut taxes and the Government is now broke and the economy is in free fall. Look at what happened. Bury you economic ideologies and simply look at the results of what happened. Economics is not a religion.

[LibertyDownUnder]

@seamoremonster, if GM's managers messed up - the company should go bankrupt, sold to the highest bidder, then start fresh with a new management team, and NO debt. No need for tax payers kicking in, and Government & unions calling the shots.

.

Government under just about every president in the last 60 years has spent too much. They needs to stop spending, and stop looking for more tax revenue. They need to cut spending across the board, on everything.

[seamoremonster]

@LibertyDownUnder Hey I have no problems with unions or with government and I detest this Libertarian Ideology that curries favor with Big Corporations. It is little more than Mussolini's Fascist ideology in new clothes. What did Unions achieve. Equal rights for women, an end to child labor, the forty hour week, occupational health and safety among other things. No we will disagree on moral grounds and on grounds of compassion. Corporations don't love their country...they love profits.

[LibertyDownUnder]

@seamoremonster, unions pushed average wages for auto industry workers in Detroit to $70 / hour. No wonder GM went belly up.

.

Libertarians do not favour big corporations.

If for example you watch some of Ron Paul's interviews, he does not like Corporations who work with Governments to get their way.

Here's what he said about bailouts: /watch?v=lg6_QVcssgM (only 2 mins)

[polymath7]

@LibertyDownUnder

What is your source for that fucking preposterous figure!!??

[LibertyDownUnder]

@polymath7, it's the total cost including healthcare benefits, sick pay, entitlements etc.

GM actually spends more money on healthcare than steel. It's rediculous.

I can't post links here, I'll PM it to you.

[seamoremonster]

@LibertyDownUnder 2% own 87% of the wealth in the US and you want to bag unions? Ford paid union wages and didn't go bell up explain that! GM CEO rolls up to Washington for a hand out in his private jet. That's the bullshit you're defending. Wall Street and Oil CEO Lee Raymond from Morally Deprived Exxon Mobile being retired out on $400 million...and you want to complain about Union wages? When BP fucked the Gulff...Libertarian Ron Paul chastised Obama for demanding compensation.

[LibertyDownUnder]

@seamoremonster, you're throwing about 15 different issues here, I can't keep up.

I don't like any bailouts or any excessive taxes.

These taxes that are now going up will guarantee higher unemployment, so I'm not sure why anyone would support them.

[seamoremonster]

@LibertyDownUnder Cont. Had government regulations been in place it woudn't have happened. Libertarians only think they don't support Corporations....in reality their policies would give them free reign. Free market my ass....Free to exploit the environment, labor and decency. And no thanks I have no wish to visit your Libertarian Free Market Ideological Propaganda...Believe I've heard before in Italian and German and Spanish. Good night.

[freesk8]

@seamoremonster Unions did not improve wages and health and reduce working hours per week and child labor. Increasing productivity did that.

No one expects corp leaders to love anything other than profits. That is their function.

[seamoremonster]

@freesk8 Garbage.

[freesk8]

@seamoremonster Care to be more specific? :)

[seamoremonster]

@seamoremonster Specific? Indeed. You're comments about the unions are either lie or you are totally brainwashed. Unions were responsible for the 40 hour week, they were responsible for fighting for minimum wage and they were huge and significant factor in ending child labor. Check out the history of child labor and mines. Increasing productivity achieved none of that. Why don't you guys just go ahead and join the Texas school board and rewrite history. Shit.

[Tones4me1]

@seamoremonster Well told! Your history is correct. But I have been at the mercy of the Teamsters. I worked in a cannery and paid my dues, they promised to get us more money. Instead they accepted a deal for $1.00 less an hour. Two years later the head of the union was charged with stealing the union money. Next Pres came in & did the same thing.

[seamoremonster]

@Tones4me1 You have no idea how that saddens me. I know Union Leadership can be suspect at time. I hope the rank and file united and voted the son of bitches out!

[Tones4me1]

@seamoremonster They did vote them out and replaced them with another guy who did the same thing. But I am much more concerned with the Monsanto Co who is genetically engineering our plant seeds. They are unhealthy for us and they will only sprout one time, so you can't save seeds & replant. Nope, you will have to go to Big Daddy Monsanto if you want to grow some more food. They are truly evil.

[seamoremonster]

@Tones4me1 Agreed. Check the Group Against Monsanto on my channel. It's at the bottom of the page. You may want to join.

[Tones4me1]

@seamoremonster Thanks for the info. I believe I will.

[underyourskindvd]

@seamoremonster The Bush tax cut looked like another scam like the banks and Enron.. looked like an advance before it all crumbled.

keep the wealthy, wealthy and leave the rest to discuss what the hell is going on.

The wealthy have a lot more leisure time for the simple fact, the money is just handed to them, the rest must work for them and for themselves.