The ongoing problem with "Occupy Wall Street" is they're completely agitated about ecomonic invalidation of businesses. Regardless, the 99% of those people can violate the value theory of economics all they want because in the end neither the congress nor the White House representatives will ever attempt to stablize the financial situations and so forth. It's like saying a protest is abusing the First Amendment altogether.
Haha. I was arguing with someone earlier (billburns2) about the social contract. He failed so miserably it wasn't even funny. The social contract has no validity and can't even exist because contracts must be voluntary while state action does not
@papabungle One important thing to note is that corporations are created and condoned by the state. Corporations have gained special treatment through the state that wouldn't likely exist in absence of the state. Businesses have survived financial ruin due to the state. While corruption from business could still exist in a stateless society, it is more effective within a state.
>>One important thing to note is that corporations are created and condoned by the state
The corporations created themselves. The state merely provides a legal framework. Without the state all you world have are big businesses who enforce themselves using less ethical means.
>>While corruption from business could still exist in a stateless society, it is more effective within a state.
In a stateless society, the corrupt RUN everyone else. The state exists to fight this.
It's been know for decades that corporate chiefs suffer psychopathy at considerably higher rates than the general population. Instead you just blow off this fact, saying "Oh corporate heads are innovators in our society! They aren't bad people at all. It's statism that is the problem." This strikes me as intentionally dishonest and you have lost all credibility as far as I am concerned.
@papabungle I think most politicians have to have psychopathic traits just to get funding and to tell their electorate lies to get elected. Our system insures that only puppets make it to government office. However they make the rules and tell the guns where to go. CEO's do not have that authority. Some CEO's are psychopaths some are not obviously. Some of the 99% are freeloaders some are not. I think your main quandary is that some psychopaths are successful. Freedom>Fairness. My $0.02
My usage of the term CEO was wrong. My primary issue is that the creator of this video mentions the OWS movement, and the stereotype of the "evil businessman" which actually does have a lot of basis in reality, and proceeds to blow it off, ignoring the research supporting it in favor of continuing his anti-statism deconstruction which shows the creator of the video is INTENTIONALLY DISHONEST and you have yet to refute anything I said. What was the point of your comment?
@papabungle By the way so you don't misunderstand my last comment. My idea of fairness is that everybody plays by the same rules and that will happen when government gets out the market place. I am saying for you to even consider that government is evil you have to answer the question: Which do I value more freedom or fairness? If you say fairness then tell me how you decide whats fair but more importantly how is your decision morally superior to my decision that freedom is the better choice?
I am not making an argument for statism or volunteerism. My issue with the video is that the creator is being intentionally dishonest or has poorly researched in preparation for the video.
I am personally still in favor of governments in the general sense. My primary problem with absolute volunteerism is that there is no evidentiary support for a modern society operating healthily. Politicians could very well have higher rates of psychopathy compared to the general population, though I am not aware of any official research on the topic. However, regardless of volunteerism or statism, the current system in the United States needs drastic change.
@papabungle Fair enough. I think the government should steadily decline into voluntaryism. I still haven't done enough research to be 100 percent comfortable saying absolute voluntaryism is possible although I personally can see no morally superior alternative. But I do think government is running rampant like never before and needs to be curtailed. It would be nice if it would just fade away into voluntaryism over the next 50 years, if not, minarchy would be a welcome compromise. We will see...
@papabungle Then after you have decided that fairness is better than freedom and that your moral judgement is better than my moral judgment. Then you have to enforce your judgments on whats fair and whats not on everybody even though many might have disagreements with your decisions. Thus you use force breaking the non-aggression principle in order to revolt against nature because nothing in this universe can be considered fair by nature (in my opinion).
Just FYI the proportion of psychopaths (In the actual psychological sense) in CEO positions is four times greater than that of the general population. The idea of the evil, rich businessman did not spring up from no where, it has some basis in reality. There have been numerous studies showing that corporate heads suffer from psychopathy and drastically higher rates than the general population. I find it amusing that the creator of the video just blows this off.
than what would you suggest, 6 billion individuals living without rules ?
the state came to life for the purpose to regulate humanity.
Governments, states whatever you call it worldwide are corrupted, governements work just fine like microsoft windows, but when a virus kicks in it will fail to work and with the virus I mean the corruption that has manifested into governements.
If we people would just take some respondebillity for our own governments than things would work just fine.
@MrKuno46 No, is it the state that is the problem. Without the state there is nothing to "hijack". There can never be a benevolent state as power ultimately corrupts.
And so you have wealthy, powerful men who exploit you directly. You are always going to be a victim, you may as well choose an institution designed to protect you.
>>There can never be a benevolent state as power ultimately corrupts
Our state was founded on very benevolent ideals. What happened is that we decided to make corporations into people, and then slowly they became super-powers running the show with government as the mask.
@MrKuno46 - if it was not the state it would be the church, the monarchy, the military, males, the intelligentsia, the workers. Whosoever can seize the day have no doubt will.
@MrKuno46 Government is fundamentally corrupt by design. "Good government" is an impossibility, for it to be good it would have to stop stealing and stop forcing monopolies on services. Without stealing (tax) and forced monopoly over currency government becomes nothing more than a business that must compete with others.
The ongoing problem with "Occupy Wall Street" is they're completely agitated about ecomonic invalidation of businesses. Regardless, the 99% of those people can violate the value theory of economics all they want because in the end neither the congress nor the White House representatives will ever attempt to stablize the financial situations and so forth. It's like saying a protest is abusing the First Amendment altogether.
Ringvireot 2 months ago
Haha. I was arguing with someone earlier (billburns2) about the social contract. He failed so miserably it wasn't even funny. The social contract has no validity and can't even exist because contracts must be voluntary while state action does not
mjbarrowful 2 months ago
the best slaves are the ones that don't know that they are slaves
darcmattr 3 months ago
@darcmattr thats called the Catholic Church :D
Gumbo72203 3 months ago
@papabungle One important thing to note is that corporations are created and condoned by the state. Corporations have gained special treatment through the state that wouldn't likely exist in absence of the state. Businesses have survived financial ruin due to the state. While corruption from business could still exist in a stateless society, it is more effective within a state.
Tsudico 4 months ago 2
@Tsudico
>>One important thing to note is that corporations are created and condoned by the state
The corporations created themselves. The state merely provides a legal framework. Without the state all you world have are big businesses who enforce themselves using less ethical means.
>>While corruption from business could still exist in a stateless society, it is more effective within a state.
In a stateless society, the corrupt RUN everyone else. The state exists to fight this.
kDest 4 months ago
It's been know for decades that corporate chiefs suffer psychopathy at considerably higher rates than the general population. Instead you just blow off this fact, saying "Oh corporate heads are innovators in our society! They aren't bad people at all. It's statism that is the problem." This strikes me as intentionally dishonest and you have lost all credibility as far as I am concerned.
papabungle 4 months ago
@papabungle I think most politicians have to have psychopathic traits just to get funding and to tell their electorate lies to get elected. Our system insures that only puppets make it to government office. However they make the rules and tell the guns where to go. CEO's do not have that authority. Some CEO's are psychopaths some are not obviously. Some of the 99% are freeloaders some are not. I think your main quandary is that some psychopaths are successful. Freedom>Fairness. My $0.02
oshory 4 months ago
@oshory
My usage of the term CEO was wrong. My primary issue is that the creator of this video mentions the OWS movement, and the stereotype of the "evil businessman" which actually does have a lot of basis in reality, and proceeds to blow it off, ignoring the research supporting it in favor of continuing his anti-statism deconstruction which shows the creator of the video is INTENTIONALLY DISHONEST and you have yet to refute anything I said. What was the point of your comment?
papabungle 4 months ago
@papabungle By the way so you don't misunderstand my last comment. My idea of fairness is that everybody plays by the same rules and that will happen when government gets out the market place. I am saying for you to even consider that government is evil you have to answer the question: Which do I value more freedom or fairness? If you say fairness then tell me how you decide whats fair but more importantly how is your decision morally superior to my decision that freedom is the better choice?
oshory 4 months ago
@oshory
I am not making an argument for statism or volunteerism. My issue with the video is that the creator is being intentionally dishonest or has poorly researched in preparation for the video.
papabungle 4 months ago
@papabungle O i love to ramble
oshory 4 months ago
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@papabungle But do you have an opinion on the matter? If so what do you think about my comments?
oshory 4 months ago
@oshory
I am personally still in favor of governments in the general sense. My primary problem with absolute volunteerism is that there is no evidentiary support for a modern society operating healthily. Politicians could very well have higher rates of psychopathy compared to the general population, though I am not aware of any official research on the topic. However, regardless of volunteerism or statism, the current system in the United States needs drastic change.
papabungle 4 months ago
@papabungle Fair enough. I think the government should steadily decline into voluntaryism. I still haven't done enough research to be 100 percent comfortable saying absolute voluntaryism is possible although I personally can see no morally superior alternative. But I do think government is running rampant like never before and needs to be curtailed. It would be nice if it would just fade away into voluntaryism over the next 50 years, if not, minarchy would be a welcome compromise. We will see...
oshory 4 months ago
@papabungle How is the current government model working in this world? I rather at least try it and see what happens.
bigboywasim 2 weeks ago
@papabungle Then after you have decided that fairness is better than freedom and that your moral judgement is better than my moral judgment. Then you have to enforce your judgments on whats fair and whats not on everybody even though many might have disagreements with your decisions. Thus you use force breaking the non-aggression principle in order to revolt against nature because nothing in this universe can be considered fair by nature (in my opinion).
Sorry if I have misunderstood you.
oshory 4 months ago
Just FYI the proportion of psychopaths (In the actual psychological sense) in CEO positions is four times greater than that of the general population. The idea of the evil, rich businessman did not spring up from no where, it has some basis in reality. There have been numerous studies showing that corporate heads suffer from psychopathy and drastically higher rates than the general population. I find it amusing that the creator of the video just blows this off.
papabungle 4 months ago
I smell a SOCK PUPPET!
deadrepublicantv 4 months ago
than what would you suggest, 6 billion individuals living without rules ?
the state came to life for the purpose to regulate humanity.
Governments, states whatever you call it worldwide are corrupted, governements work just fine like microsoft windows, but when a virus kicks in it will fail to work and with the virus I mean the corruption that has manifested into governements.
If we people would just take some respondebillity for our own governments than things would work just fine.
MrKuno46 4 months ago
@MrKuno46 We suggest living in a world with a completely voluntary society
dieyoung 4 months ago 4
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@MrKuno46 Well, the state has not done its job well so it's time for something that works.
deadrepublicantv 4 months ago
Stop hijacking the protests
djwave28 4 months ago
it's not the state, it are the people who have hijacked the state.
MrKuno46 4 months ago
@MrKuno46 No, is it the state that is the problem. Without the state there is nothing to "hijack". There can never be a benevolent state as power ultimately corrupts.
straffsats 4 months ago 11
@straffsats
>>Without the state there is nothing to "hijack"
And so you have wealthy, powerful men who exploit you directly. You are always going to be a victim, you may as well choose an institution designed to protect you.
>>There can never be a benevolent state as power ultimately corrupts
Our state was founded on very benevolent ideals. What happened is that we decided to make corporations into people, and then slowly they became super-powers running the show with government as the mask.
kDest 4 months ago
Comment removed
EUbrainwashing 4 months ago
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@MrKuno46 - if it was not the state it would be the church, the monarchy, the military, males, the intelligentsia, the workers. Whosoever can seize the day have no doubt will.
EUbrainwashing 4 months ago
Comment removed
batmanthe 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrKuno46 Government is fundamentally corrupt by design. "Good government" is an impossibility, for it to be good it would have to stop stealing and stop forcing monopolies on services. Without stealing (tax) and forced monopoly over currency government becomes nothing more than a business that must compete with others.
batmanthe 4 months ago
Awesome. Thanks for uploading.
Wesker1982 4 months ago