Hector Avalos: How Archaeology Killed Biblical History - Part 1 of 2

[4trahasis]

@MRGV7373 "The NT writing are the best attested writing over 1,000 years old in all history."

That's why there are over 5,500 NT manuscripts with variations? Some with completely missing or added passages.

All are free to believe whatever they wish: that's fantastic! But it is another thing entirely to conflate belief with truth - particularly when evidence is lacking, or even to the contrary. There _may_ be NT evidence of Jesus as G-d, but the majority does not support this, the rest is belief.

[restoredrob]

@4trahasis way to misstate the case. In the NT case it is 99.9% accurate to the originals according to texual critics. And the .1% is mostly spelling variations or other 'nonsense' variations that affect nothing. Basically there are three known additions, the end of Mark, the John 8 adultery pericope and the 1 John trinity addition. The fact is later copyists were afraid to leave anything out and would occasionally include margin notes. So we have lost nothing, we have too much.

[MRGV7373]

The revelation of the bible are relevant since they are the very revelations of God. This foolish PHD does not know of what he talks about. The kingship of David is well documented in the archeology. This man make wide blanket statements which are false. So if 50% are people don't know what the first book of the bible, it just shows they are ignorant. This PHD is not very bright and I can see why his is teaching in Iowa. The cows are not too critical

[VanDammesCokeDealer]

@MRGV7373 Then every other piece of ancient writing that includes historically accurate events is just as relevant as the Bible. Try honestly and critically reading the Bible as you would another religion's text and see how well it holds up without the apologetics. Also carefully examine the methods and techniques that cults and conspiracy theorists use to insulate themselves and their followers from evidence and truth, and then compare them to the christianity.

[MRGV7373]

@VanDammesCokeDealer Yes, if an accient text is valid, it should be read and reviewed and then the individual can make up their mind on what they want to do with the readings. What I object is the lack of taking the NT writings as real and genuine. They are. If someone takes them as being valid and decides not to follow what they say, that is a person right. But to dismiss the NT writing as false is beyond me. The NT writing are the best attested writing over 1,000 years old in all history.

[MRGV7373]

Go see this on ytube. Archaeology: Digging for the Truth of the Bible - good to find something that is by a PHD who has been in Israel and found the bible to be quite real and valid. This guy is way off. How did all the Egyptian artifacts and gates of Solomon get to the 3 cities of Israel.

[MRGV7373]

The Archeology will never verify moral or teachings of Jesus. Archeology will just show the times and places of the bible exist. The teachings can never be proven by archeology since they don't tell the story of Jesus. David house was found in 2004, stone tablets were found also. The dead sea scrolls verify the OT writing quite well. This guy does not have his facts straight.

[MRGV7373]

the new testament has changed the belief of the OT. Culture does play a part in understand the bible. However, the Bible is real, true history and valid for teaching and understanding. This book is very relevant. If Jesus is real and it did happen, it is up to us to figure it out. This guy is far off base. NT has been superseded by NT and Modern knowledge. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Either Jesus is real or not real. the bible is a story of great stories. True and valid

[MRGV7373]

Is this guy real. Any believing Christian knows that the bible is the key to all Christians beliefs. If the history of Jesus is not true and accurate as shown in the bible, then Christians belief are full of errors and Christians are just hopeless fools.

[joemantex]

@MRGV7373 Probably because they are? As are all religious people.

[MRGV7373]

@joemantex Joe, very dead remark. Do you have anything of real value to add or just dumb remarks. Come on, add something that has value or depth of thinking. Da

[joemantex]

@MRGV7373 Sometimes a short, to the point quip is all that is needed. We live in an age of soundbites.

[ytbabbler]

@MRGV7373 "If the history of Jesus is not true and accurate as shown in the bible, then Christians belief are full of errors and Christians are just hopeless fools. "

Yes, that is a good conclusion, so now you can start to find out what the history of Jesus really is, what is proven for him and against him. I'm sure he never even existed, but you maybe can find something that at least make him to a fool that actually existed.

[MRGV7373]

@ytbabbler I said If IF IF, I believe that it is true with no IF. Faith that the history was written correctly. IF Jesus never existed then a large historical hoax has happened and no critical Historians believe that is what happened. To many writings and historical facts exist.

[ytbabbler]

@MRGV7373 Yes, I know you wrote IF, and that you are religious, and that means that you will never accept anything that contradict your faith, knowing the truth is not an option for you.

I think this is the biggest hoax in history, and sorry, there are many historians and scholars that say so. The sad thing is that when you examine any of the "overwhelming evidences" of Jesus as an historic living person you only find very dishonest claims where there is another Jesus or "Christ".

[MRGV7373]

@ytbabbler The beautiful part of living in the USA is that we can have our opinions and express them and even debate them I respect your opinion and I am glad that you have voiced them.

[ytbabbler]

@MRGV7373 The beautiful part of NOT living in USA is that we have no religious peoples trying to control the life for others. Superstition has no place in politics and education , and in USA it has gone to far, religions should be a private thing.

When religious cults get control of education, the whole country will go under, just like Iraq that once was the leading region in science before the religion came in conflict with knowledge. Keep it secular and nobody cares what you believe.

[saitamme]

at 4:30 or so he makes a comment about harvard divinity school, something like "you have to be an atheist to get in...", anyone in the peanut gallery know anything about this? do atheists/agnostics outnumber the religious in that dept?

i know it's probably hard to come by reliable stats for this, but i'm fascinated.

[TheAnubisDrake]

@saitamme No, this is a joke about the fact that you can not know the history of the bible without losing belief in it. Unless of course you decide to lie to yourself.

[MRGV7373]

@saitamme In most divinity schools these days in the public colleges, the staff are agnostic at best and some are even atheists. James White has commented on this a lot. I ran into this at U of Minnesota. Same with the philosophy departments. It is quite strange that atheist would teach in a divinity department is it not.

[acr08807]

@JuneauGold Most atheists don't have much experience with serious Biblical scholarship. Most have, however, experienced Christian Bible studies firsthand in the form of Sunday school. Do you think that Coogan's statement that churches try to hide the "bad parts" of the Bible from their parishoners is incorrect on the whole? If so, how is that not a joke?

[seanmas]

@JuneauGold This is a common and very very tired argument from Christians that people become atheists because they had a bad experience with God. This trivializes the entire struggle that ex-religious people go through to break themselves free of the mind-shackles of religious thought. This "DeaconVerter", as you called him, looked at the world around him, examined the evidence and was faced with the reality that his beliefs were not justifiable based on what he now knew to be true.

[healthmain]

63% correctly name Genesis as the first book of the Bible.

/pewforum.org/other-beliefs-an­d-practices/u-s-religious-know­ledge-survey.aspx

[Roaddogg666]

First, excellent talk! and second, why has this video only gotten 191 views?!

[amoxtlacatl]

@Roaddogg666

Growing fast - 233 views 2 days after you message on 191 views!

[macroman52]

You can find published research on P52 which shows similarities of the writing to dated documents as late as 200CE or more. The dating of 125CE+/- 25 years (based on hand-writing) has a bit of wishful thinking in it. See "The use and abuse of P52 in dating the fourth gospel" Harvard Theological Review 98, 2008, by Brent Nongbri

[writersblock26]

Thank you for posting this, MinnesotaAtheists.

[MrAtheism33]

I would only add to Avalos' arguments that one does not have to be a former fundamentalist in order to defeat fundamentalist's arguments

[DeaconVerter]

I totally agree. Real Bible study is about when/where/why different bits were written and who wrote them and to whom. Christian Bible study is a joke. It's mostly about how some bit of scripture shows them to be right or about how some biblical character handled some moral dilemma in a god-pleasing way. Go Hector!