All you need to do is put yourself in the position of the person being tortured. What would you say to make it stop? Anything at all, anything you thought the interrogators wanted to hear. The problem we have is most people aren't willing to think of the subject as another human being; they are labelled a 'terrorist' and that means the 'good guys' can do what they want, "whatever it takes".
But it doesn't work. And even if it did, aren't we supposed to be the good guys?
Acutally they can admit to anything but the CIA will find out if your telling the truth or not and if your not you get waterboarded until you decide to tell the truth. So hey dumbasses dont act like the CIA will believe anything they tell them lol.
This is like saying U.S. internment of the Japanese wasn't as bad as Nazi concentration camps. Well, yeah. It wasn't.
But that doesn't mean that it was okay. We're supposed to set a higher standard than, say, the Nazis, or the medieval Islamic extremists that we're fighting.
And the fact is, if they waterboarded American prisoners or stripped them naked and paraded them around on leashes and we got our hands on them, we'd try them as war criminals.
I agree. I think you hit the the nail right on the head with that statement.
As North Americans(I'm Canadian) we do have to set certain standards. That's our own doing. We spend so much time and effort trying to set examples for the rest of the world to follow.
We expect the rest of the world to follow by lead example; however, when we are caught doing something wrong, we do everything possible to try and pacify the situation.
We expect the rest of the world to follow by lead example; however, when we are caught doing something wrong, we do everything possible to try and pacify the situation.
I DO care that they cut heads off and kill people. For one, they're experienced torturers, and have the means for enduring it. That's why we had to waterboard someone 180+ times. The contrived panic over torture memos is BS.
I also care because I don't want my country associated with the horrors of it's enemies. Waterboarding was deemed torture by the US when the Japanese and Nazis did it in WWII. Why should we be okay with doing the same thing?
Thanks to Sean Crappity, the sub-100 IQs are a mob, with a voice, at riot, unrestrained. Thanks to Chris Matthews, the world is Jimmy Carter's and his spawn's crime-scene, in 2009. Thanks to stupidity, Zionist Jews refuse to know the chosen people are from ETHIOPIA. Obama, the next President will be named JOE, not Scarborough, he will have Zbiggy's nose, and this will go down before the end ot the term. You will lose your AIPAC monkeys, or eat waves of fire and mud. NEXT! 360.yahoo/bobgnote
At least the innocent people who were accused of being witches were CHARGED with a crime, and given at least a SEMBIENCE of a trial ,before being tortured and killed.
The Bush administration often just grabbed large numbers of random muslim men off of the street, and tortured them (somtimes until they died) hoping that some of them MIGHT know somthing.
Of course when they WERE finally given trials, most of them were either proven innocent, or there was not enough evidence to convict them.
Witch trials were a complete sham since there were no standards at all for what made admissible evidence - confessions gained under torture, malicious gossip and "spectral" evidence were all accepted. Once charged, there was just about zero chance of a person being found innocent.
Bush's policies were disgusting and criminal but our SYSTEM far exceeds that of the middle ages and if innocent men have eventually been freed, it is because of our system.
But our system has to be taken seriously enough by good men that people like Bush shouldn't expect to get away with murder (or torture, as the case may be).
Bush, Cheney and the rest must be brought to justice.
He has been very passive, maybe its some sort of excuse to try and buy time? he can be very clever with things like this. i could be wrong but, its sort of suspicious in my opinion
Cenk, The TyT army is willing to die and kill for the cause of peace and justice in the ways you deem right! Please recruit and station us....WE WILL FIGHT!!!! MSNBC NOW, WAR TOMMOROW~!!!!
Dude Pot gives you cancer same as Cigarettes, BUT I do think it should be legalized for various reasons (Not crack, heroin obviously) but saying it doesent do you harm is just.....wishful thinking lol ^.^
The point I wanted to make is that tobacco plant you can only smoke it vs pot plant you can make moistarisers ,fibers polymers etc... And if we look at the past prohibition doesn't work it creates cartels and a criminal black market. Unethical laws creates unethical behaviors.
"i wish i could see ya ass in person..." WHOA stop the press we have baddests of the bad asses in the internet here loooooooooooooooooool i mean what kind of loser sends those "if i could see you ...." posts ????
If they followed the money and got the real evidence then they would ultimately come to the money many or top player. Can't do that though, because the top guy was the presidente of the USA and his conspiratorial environment. We therefore pretend that these marginal players have suddenly become major players. If the Bushes were beaten enough, GW would be fleeing for his paltry life.
Why was Thomas de Torquemada not tormented or tortured? It is because he was within the hierarchy and not a victim of the hierarchy or church. People torture for power. They might not want to be known for torture, but they at least want it to be normal as if they were only "following orders". Those guys that beat the skin off of Jesus; following orders, doing their jobs! Overall their reward was Jesus' stuff and a "good job".
Word up! Cheney was not a "fool" who really believed torture was getting accurate information. He is a very cynical operator who knows the power of intimidation, and his use of force was meant to scare the people who were not being tortured at the time, including Congress and the media. Everyone was too afraid to ask questions.
How would he do this. The executive branch has no method for trials or convictions. Under our system of govt. it would be up to the courts or the congress. I don't know of a single example of the executive branch bringing anyone to trial. Time to reread that whole seperation of powers stuff.
Obama dodged that bullet saying "we must look forward" during the inception of is administration (@brightwave). Who doesn't wanna see those somemumabitches in cuffs?
He has been passive on issues like this, but who knows, that might be a smokescreen and he's just buying time. Obama is very cerebral and cunning at times.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
filthy terrorist scum should always be tortured accompanied by extreme acts of humiliation. do horrible things to their penis and assholes too and then make them watch it on video. send a copy to bin laden with a laugh track over it
I´m so glad that in Germany torture is out of question for most.
There was a case of public outcry here, even in one case where a police officer threatened a suspect (for kidnapping and hiding a girl somewhere) with torture, and I´m glad for that.
Torture only leads to information that the tortured think they want to hear. And a commited criminal in a "ticking bomb" case lies and wouldn´t give you the real information until it´s too late either.
Nah... when do the american media ever learn? The torture was not a mishap that turned out to create false intel - it was intended to create false intel all along. Thats why you torture: To create falso intel to deceive your own public. Torture is a tool to fight against your own people. Is it really so hard for the american people to admit to themselves that they have been pawned big time? You have been fooled for years, accept it, live with it, prevent it from happening again!
My guess is Cheney's argument would be: if we have to chase 100 false leads so we don't run the risk of missing 1 real lead it will have been worth it.
But of course, like everything else he says, that's complete bullshit.
Al Qaeda is a list of known terrorists, created by the CIA. It's a LABEL given to a list of terrorists. That's it. Even the wikipedia article doesn't point this out. Instead they claim Osama Bin Laden is the "leader". lol /facepalm.
from history. You think there is a group muslims running around with "Al Qaeda" badges? Do you know which seperate groups they consider "Al Qaeda terrorists"?
The American propaganda machine needs to keep churning out the idea that some large phantom terrorist group is still planning the death of Earth and is organized .
It's turned from an american funded terrorist group started back when they needed to use them to fight the russians, into some long running "terrorist organization" LOL
Well, in a positive development on this subject, the Obama administration has done away with using the term "war on terror". Which is a term that has been the main propellant for the propaganda machine you speak of.
mangaas: if you yourself say there was an American-funded "terrorist group" that had Bin Laden as one of the leaders, and Bin Laden today has money and claims to run the group under the name A-Qaeda, why is it so hard to believe that Al-Qaeda is a real organization? Is the only stumbling block going from "group" to "organization"? Because that is pure semantics. Here's an easy definition: any person who swore personal allegiance to Bin Laden is a member of Al-Qaeda. Why so hard to believe?
Just think if they would have spent that money investigating the bush administration what kind of nice things they would have found. Like the actual people that caused 9/11. HAHA but no, send them on wild goose chases so they NEVER find out. 0.o
Torture is a grossly innefficient form of intorragation. It IS an excellent way to break someone psychologically but that's only effective in limited circumstances (intel gathering not being one of them).
Sodium Pentithol (aka "truth serum") on the other hand is remarkably effective at breaking down defenses and getting truthful confessions however it's use can lead to permenant brain damage (repeated use most certainly will).
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I think in cases where you know the guy has information but he just won't crack, a case for torture can be made. What we heard here was a guy who already cracked and had nothing more to give. Therefore, torture was counter productive.
If a guy has knowledge of a nuclear threat and we are on a time limit then you can make a very good case for it. In fact, even most liberals agree that in that case you don't have a lot of choice in the matter.
1) The whole nuclear threat deal is a Hollywood fantasy, it never has and never will happen.
2) Torture doesn't work. If you use all other tactics and they haven't cracked, all torture is going to do is force them lie to you. Even if they do have pertinent information, it will just lead to false intelligence.
Of course in this case the Bush administration wanted false intelligence to bring to Congress and the UN to justify war and they got it.
No, the nuclear threat isn't a Hollywood fantasy. Slowly more and more countries are going nuclear. You will also note that there was a Nuclear Physicist who showed that give a little bit of money he could make a nuclear bomb outside of the lab within a few months.
Torture does work. The problem is that once you get all of the information out of the tortured person they begin to lie to you so it is hard if not impossible to tell where the truth stops and the lie starts.
Learn your history. Torture is not useful in 99% of all situations, but there are certain situations where it is useful (not the ones in which Bush used it but sill). It can also be used to scare your enemies if times are desperate enough.
Incorrect. Trained soldiers know how to deal with torture. They have pre-made stories that when checked would seem plossible, and they are trained to continue, building on those stories to seem desperate, to the point the tortured soldier believe in the stories himself.
Training on torture is the most common training in all military systems I know of. And in secret groups, it is not only common, it is in some cases taken beyond what we can imagine.
Incorrect. Talk to a soldier they will tell you people always tell the truth and lies eventually if the torture is bad enough you will tell them anything. Plus, only special forces and 'high risk' people are trained this way not the average soldier. They are also only trained to last a little while so we can deploy rescue operations. They tend to focus more on escape and evasion. Look at the success of the POW camps in previous wars before you make such a comment.
I am a trained soldier. When I was 20 I enrolled, and more then a month of my training was how to funtion under torture. I will admit that I was triained for guard duty and as such was trained more then your average soldier in torture, but it is simple to lie under torture as long as you "believe" what you are saying.
Okay, my whole family is in the military. I know guys who were actually tortured during Vietnam. They talked eventually. It is easy to say that during training you won't talk, but when you are watching the people you trained with scream in pain while waiting for your turn to get beat down on and have bamboo shoots shoved under your fingernails it is a completely different story. You can be trained to resist things like water boarding but I'm talking real torture.
sure people talk, but they talk bullshit, they make up anything to make the pain stop, Mc Cain admitted he talked and that he made up most of what he said.
The key word is most. First they lie then eventually they tell the truth then they lie some more, but if you have several people telling lies their will be a common truth which when combined with other evidence can point you in the right direction. This is why this kind of torture is flawed because this isn't the proper time to use it. You use it when you already know the person knows something and you have other leads and a short time period in which to get an answer. It's use is VERY limited.
here is another way "most" applies, most military do not recieve any torture training at all, all I got was a lecture on things they will tell you to get you to talk. By the time you get someone in a prison they have had plenty of time to make up things to tell you, the only way it might be effective would right on the spot if you started shooting off fingers before they had time to make things up, but that is not going ot happen, so it is useless and we should not do it.
Like I said, torture in this situation was dumb. If you wait to long then plans will be changed and even if you get the truth it is pointless. The only time it would be remotely useful is if you want to scare the troops of another country or you are in a situation where you need the information right away and you know he has the info in which case they would do what you said above and start right away.
That's all well and good, but how do you know for sure that the guy has information? These people though Zubaida had information, and it turns out he didn't... the guy you think "has information but just won't crack" could just as easily have nothing to give. And even if he does have something to give, there's no reason he won't just lie and make things up to conceal the truth.
Ever occur to you that maybe all of this was misinformation put out to cover how well torture actually does work? And it can't be military, that would be an easily prosecutable crime under the UCMJ. It has to be civilians; usually CIA, DIA, or one of the other belt and suspenders agencies. Want to know what doesn't work: all the daytime TV malarky about truth drugs and lie detectors.
In the Middle Ages people confessed being witches and what not to the inquisition. Yep torture, excuse me I meant "enhanced interrogation", is very reliable.
A Spanish court has begun investigations into whether bush officials provided a legal framework for torture (alberto gonzales, john woo and others are being investigated).
This is the same court that was responsible for the arrest of the former chilean dictator augosto pinochet. You guys should do a story on this.
anyone who thinks that torture is okay should be submitted to water boarding/ fingerbreaking/ dental torture, then asked immediately after if its okay, they say yes continue torture, they say no let them go.
we had a discussion about torture in class last week... We have 2 military personnel in the class and they are against torture.. and they were very strong in their convictions
they even say that torture leads to false information
it just give you a sense of how little the big guys on top really know...
who cares if torture is unreliable. IT'S FUN! capture a terrorist, cut off his toes and fingers, shove a broomstick up his hairy muslim ass and make him sweep the floor, piss on his face, douse him in gasoline and let the barbecue begin
Jesus f'in Christ man, I saw this video, figured i'd make a comment that pulsar would dispute these findings as he enjoys torture and bdsm quite a lot and you already commented. Do you ever leave youtube? Your here more than I am.
if torture worked, and we have all these guys with information, why couldn't Bush find Bin Laden? why have we made almost no progress at all? most of the guys at gitmo probably don't know shit, and if they did, the information is so stale now that it means nothing.
I don't know. I get the idea that catching Osama would be a politically good move for Bush. Better than sitting in the desert for seven years and looking like a fool.
All you need to do is put yourself in the position of the person being tortured. What would you say to make it stop? Anything at all, anything you thought the interrogators wanted to hear. The problem we have is most people aren't willing to think of the subject as another human being; they are labelled a 'terrorist' and that means the 'good guys' can do what they want, "whatever it takes".
But it doesn't work. And even if it did, aren't we supposed to be the good guys?
ThePezter 3 months ago in playlist More videos from TheYoungTurks
Torture is a waste of time, you torture me and I'll lie just to get you to stop.
TriaMaxwell 1 year ago 2
Acutally they can admit to anything but the CIA will find out if your telling the truth or not and if your not you get waterboarded until you decide to tell the truth. So hey dumbasses dont act like the CIA will believe anything they tell them lol.
101airborne07 1 year ago
A travel agent for terrorists lol! I like that.
Counseloration 1 year ago
wait, i know that's wrong... can i take it back?
alxdnld 2 years ago
why would a brand of processors be interested in torture?
alxdnld 2 years ago
U THINK PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO GIVE THEIR LIVES AND GONNA GIVE U INFO IF U JUST TORTURE THEM??????
DUMBASSes
LethalSami 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Oh, what I would give to see the Young Turks waterboarded...
paulhb 2 years ago
This is like saying U.S. internment of the Japanese wasn't as bad as Nazi concentration camps. Well, yeah. It wasn't.
But that doesn't mean that it was okay. We're supposed to set a higher standard than, say, the Nazis, or the medieval Islamic extremists that we're fighting.
And the fact is, if they waterboarded American prisoners or stripped them naked and paraded them around on leashes and we got our hands on them, we'd try them as war criminals.
Because they'd *be* war criminals.
prodprod 2 years ago 4
I agree. I think you hit the the nail right on the head with that statement.
As North Americans(I'm Canadian) we do have to set certain standards. That's our own doing. We spend so much time and effort trying to set examples for the rest of the world to follow.
clovergirl22 2 years ago
We expect the rest of the world to follow by lead example; however, when we are caught doing something wrong, we do everything possible to try and pacify the situation.
clovergirl22 2 years ago
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We expect the rest of the world to follow by lead example; however, when we are caught doing something wrong, we do everything possible to try and pacify the situation.
clovergirl22 2 years ago
They cut heads off and kill people and nobody gives a shit....... USA waterboards and everyone gets sand in their vaginas......WOW
dudeman1109 2 years ago
hi there idiot)
lowenklee 2 years ago
How mature of you....
dudeman1109 2 years ago
Glad you caught that...question is can you apply that to your poorly thought out justifications.
lowenklee 2 years ago
I DO care that they cut heads off and kill people. For one, they're experienced torturers, and have the means for enduring it. That's why we had to waterboard someone 180+ times. The contrived panic over torture memos is BS.
I also care because I don't want my country associated with the horrors of it's enemies. Waterboarding was deemed torture by the US when the Japanese and Nazis did it in WWII. Why should we be okay with doing the same thing?
gigantor21 2 years ago
Thanks to Sean Crappity, the sub-100 IQs are a mob, with a voice, at riot, unrestrained. Thanks to Chris Matthews, the world is Jimmy Carter's and his spawn's crime-scene, in 2009. Thanks to stupidity, Zionist Jews refuse to know the chosen people are from ETHIOPIA. Obama, the next President will be named JOE, not Scarborough, he will have Zbiggy's nose, and this will go down before the end ot the term. You will lose your AIPAC monkeys, or eat waves of fire and mud. NEXT! 360.yahoo/bobgnote
bobgnote1 2 years ago
Yes, didn't we all learn this in the middle ages, when people under torture would admit to being witches and flying around on broomsticks?
It amazes me how stupid Bush's policies got - and we were paying for them!
I want my money back.
EyeLean5280 2 years ago 2
At least the innocent people who were accused of being witches were CHARGED with a crime, and given at least a SEMBIENCE of a trial ,before being tortured and killed.
The Bush administration often just grabbed large numbers of random muslim men off of the street, and tortured them (somtimes until they died) hoping that some of them MIGHT know somthing.
Of course when they WERE finally given trials, most of them were either proven innocent, or there was not enough evidence to convict them.
SinnFein4ever 2 years ago
Witch trials were a complete sham since there were no standards at all for what made admissible evidence - confessions gained under torture, malicious gossip and "spectral" evidence were all accepted. Once charged, there was just about zero chance of a person being found innocent.
Bush's policies were disgusting and criminal but our SYSTEM far exceeds that of the middle ages and if innocent men have eventually been freed, it is because of our system.
EyeLean5280 2 years ago
But our system has to be taken seriously enough by good men that people like Bush shouldn't expect to get away with murder (or torture, as the case may be).
Bush, Cheney and the rest must be brought to justice.
EyeLean5280 2 years ago
Actually, I would say "has to be taken seriously enough by good men AND women".
SinnFein4ever 2 years ago
And so would I...
except that I was alluding to the famous quote, "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke
EyeLean5280 2 years ago
Good morning, EyeLean.
I'm familiar with that famous quote, I just had no way to know that you were refferencing it.
And you're right.
SinnFein4ever 2 years ago
torture is a war-crime!!
.... what happens when ppl get tortured?? they admit anything you want them to admit, only to end the torture...
log140 2 years ago 14
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They destroyed the torture video tapes because they knew if those tapes were made public, a lot of the Bush Administration would be going to prison
kymystic65 2 years ago
He has been very passive, maybe its some sort of excuse to try and buy time? he can be very clever with things like this. i could be wrong but, its sort of suspicious in my opinion
NoobCake09 2 years ago
What's waterboarding?
MartinezCowboys1 2 years ago
So bottom line is, torture is not only immoral but a huge waste of time and money! Who would have thought?
juliact 2 years ago 3
Torture is looking at some nice girl's ass without being able to fuck it
WKaliberr 2 years ago
Why did yiu guys give WK "two thumbs down". Dude is right!! Looking at a round tight ass, and not being able to hit it IS torture!!!
publicatdamagnificen 2 years ago
Torture is reading your post.
EyeLean5280 2 years ago
Gore won in 2000.
WKaliberr 2 years ago 2
you guys got me big time
pretorious700 2 years ago
Nice touch youtube, half of the html is upside down in this page.
pretorious700 2 years ago
how far up does the permission to torture chain of command go?
all the way to Cheney? Rumsfeld at least.
znotty 2 years ago
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USA! USA!
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View my channel!
Enio125 2 years ago
Cenk, The TyT army is willing to die and kill for the cause of peace and justice in the ways you deem right! Please recruit and station us....WE WILL FIGHT!!!! MSNBC NOW, WAR TOMMOROW~!!!!
Spartan54232 2 years ago
Awesome! KILL FOR PEACE! DIE FOR JUSTICE! BLOW UP HOSPITALS TO PREVENT ABORTION! HAVE SEX FOR STD PREVENTION AWARENESS!
SPEND MONEY TO SAVE!
and as the good man says:
DARE TO BE STUPID!!!
Etimos 2 years ago 3
as long as you can eat to get thinner as well then you have the American Dream!
thenewvoice8 2 years ago
You forgot "Make pot illegal because it never killed anybody and leave tobacco legal because it kills and gives cancer."
boumar19721972 2 years ago 2
Dude Pot gives you cancer same as Cigarettes, BUT I do think it should be legalized for various reasons (Not crack, heroin obviously) but saying it doesent do you harm is just.....wishful thinking lol ^.^
Spartan54232 2 years ago
well it hasnt been known to cause lung cancer.
the only harm from pot seems to come from inhailing smoke
Ap0colyps6 2 years ago
Any kind of smoke is a carcinogen.
Propagandhi900 2 years ago
So does the fun. (!>^)
Spartan54232 2 years ago
The point I wanted to make is that tobacco plant you can only smoke it vs pot plant you can make moistarisers ,fibers polymers etc... And if we look at the past prohibition doesn't work it creates cartels and a criminal black market. Unethical laws creates unethical behaviors.
boumar19721972 2 years ago 3
You are 100% right thats why I want pot legalized, while tightening up laws preventing large traders of it. (like in Canada)
Spartan54232 2 years ago
Spartan, WTF?
andrew15251 2 years ago
Wait, TYT nation IS willing to die for Cenk. He is our commander, president and king!
Spartan54232 2 years ago
The whole country has no idea what's going on and wouldn't know right from wrong if it slapped them in the face. Good god help us.
7d7e7f7 2 years ago
CIA cant find its ass with either hand.
ndyt 2 years ago 2
"i wish i could see ya ass in person..." WHOA stop the press we have baddests of the bad asses in the internet here loooooooooooooooooool i mean what kind of loser sends those "if i could see you ...." posts ????
PAAVOLA 2 years ago
If they followed the money and got the real evidence then they would ultimately come to the money many or top player. Can't do that though, because the top guy was the presidente of the USA and his conspiratorial environment. We therefore pretend that these marginal players have suddenly become major players. If the Bushes were beaten enough, GW would be fleeing for his paltry life.
hypnofan35 2 years ago 2
Why was Thomas de Torquemada not tormented or tortured? It is because he was within the hierarchy and not a victim of the hierarchy or church. People torture for power. They might not want to be known for torture, but they at least want it to be normal as if they were only "following orders". Those guys that beat the skin off of Jesus; following orders, doing their jobs! Overall their reward was Jesus' stuff and a "good job".
hypnofan35 2 years ago
Word up! Cheney was not a "fool" who really believed torture was getting accurate information. He is a very cynical operator who knows the power of intimidation, and his use of force was meant to scare the people who were not being tortured at the time, including Congress and the media. Everyone was too afraid to ask questions.
hollywoodartchick 2 years ago
Excellent point, well made!
afrosaxxon 2 years ago
terrorists are not the problem. Our government is!!!!! wake up
famousashtray 2 years ago
until we can get over the divide and conquer strategies placed upon us by the "elite", we will sink like the Titanic
famousashtray 2 years ago
I thought they meant Intel the computer company. : P
ImprobableDrive 2 years ago
lmao me too
jsadasjioi 2 years ago
So, it sounds like it as good as using the throwing of darts at a dart board to get information.
richardhutnik 2 years ago
Obama better convict these crooked fucks from the previous administration.
BrightWave 2 years ago 4
How would he do this. The executive branch has no method for trials or convictions. Under our system of govt. it would be up to the courts or the congress. I don't know of a single example of the executive branch bringing anyone to trial. Time to reread that whole seperation of powers stuff.
wormbaby79 2 years ago
I know. Just a figure of speech.
BrightWave 2 years ago
Obama dodged that bullet saying "we must look forward" during the inception of is administration (@brightwave). Who doesn't wanna see those somemumabitches in cuffs?
preludedriver226 2 years ago
He has been passive on issues like this, but who knows, that might be a smokescreen and he's just buying time. Obama is very cerebral and cunning at times.
BrightWave 2 years ago
Yes but you are rational. Republicans are not. They have the emotional maturity of a cranky 6 year old. It is what drives their though processes.
newmac 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
filthy terrorist scum should always be tortured accompanied by extreme acts of humiliation. do horrible things to their penis and assholes too and then make them watch it on video. send a copy to bin laden with a laugh track over it
pulsar00815 2 years ago
Sounds like a good case could be made for war crimes against Dick Cheney et al. Let's do it!
audadvnc 2 years ago 3
Zubaida would have been a great person to turn into a double agent, but no dice after they torture him. Sadistic cowardly idiots.
Ralfast 2 years ago
I´m so glad that in Germany torture is out of question for most.
There was a case of public outcry here, even in one case where a police officer threatened a suspect (for kidnapping and hiding a girl somewhere) with torture, and I´m glad for that.
Torture only leads to information that the tortured think they want to hear. And a commited criminal in a "ticking bomb" case lies and wouldn´t give you the real information until it´s too late either.
witch hunts showed that torture doesn´t work
BMWizardofOz 2 years ago 5
Nah... when do the american media ever learn? The torture was not a mishap that turned out to create false intel - it was intended to create false intel all along. Thats why you torture: To create falso intel to deceive your own public. Torture is a tool to fight against your own people. Is it really so hard for the american people to admit to themselves that they have been pawned big time? You have been fooled for years, accept it, live with it, prevent it from happening again!
13otany13ay 2 years ago 3
My guess is Cheney's argument would be: if we have to chase 100 false leads so we don't run the risk of missing 1 real lead it will have been worth it.
But of course, like everything else he says, that's complete bullshit.
megamarsvin 2 years ago 2
Need to get Jack Fucken Bauer !!!!
FuryoftheFilmFan 2 years ago
YES!
theoneandonlyroelle 2 years ago
bush made the terrorist stronger instead of weaker with this war
sinslin 2 years ago 7
how d'ya work tht one out. they cause 9/11 before the war and haven't done shit since
SFSylvester 2 years ago
So when is Obama going to stop protecting geoge and cheney?
cheddyrod 2 years ago 4
cheney is sociopathic.. all we needed was cenk's "of cooooourse" lol
sisforshayla 2 years ago 2
we torture these people and make more hard core believes out of them thats it
wolfy1488 2 years ago 5
lol i thought the title said Intel, (Intel corporation )
buckamoona 2 years ago
I kinda did too. ;)
Don't feel bad.
mikamai 2 years ago
but...but...on 24 Jack Bauer always gets the right info by torturing people!
enigmatically 2 years ago
So enhanced interrogation is a new name for torture. I hope other nations don't apply nhanced interrogation to us. soldirs.
isaacsenglish 2 years ago
"Al Qaeda's chief of operations"?
Al Qaeda is a list of known terrorists, created by the CIA. It's a LABEL given to a list of terrorists. That's it. Even the wikipedia article doesn't point this out. Instead they claim Osama Bin Laden is the "leader". lol /facepalm.
mangaas 2 years ago 3
Al Qaeda is an international Sunni Islamist extremist movement founded sometime between August 1988 and late 1989/early 1990.
That is from wiki and it has citations, so wheres your proof of facts?
DoctorZee3 2 years ago
from history. You think there is a group muslims running around with "Al Qaeda" badges? Do you know which seperate groups they consider "Al Qaeda terrorists"?
The American propaganda machine needs to keep churning out the idea that some large phantom terrorist group is still planning the death of Earth and is organized .
It's turned from an american funded terrorist group started back when they needed to use them to fight the russians, into some long running "terrorist organization" LOL
mangaas 2 years ago
Well, in a positive development on this subject, the Obama administration has done away with using the term "war on terror". Which is a term that has been the main propellant for the propaganda machine you speak of.
ogjimkenobi 2 years ago
mangaas: if you yourself say there was an American-funded "terrorist group" that had Bin Laden as one of the leaders, and Bin Laden today has money and claims to run the group under the name A-Qaeda, why is it so hard to believe that Al-Qaeda is a real organization? Is the only stumbling block going from "group" to "organization"? Because that is pure semantics. Here's an easy definition: any person who swore personal allegiance to Bin Laden is a member of Al-Qaeda. Why so hard to believe?
miguelin97223 2 years ago
Just think if they would have spent that money investigating the bush administration what kind of nice things they would have found. Like the actual people that caused 9/11. HAHA but no, send them on wild goose chases so they NEVER find out. 0.o
NewBlueSon 2 years ago
...like dah!
jkesquered 2 years ago
Torture is a grossly innefficient form of intorragation. It IS an excellent way to break someone psychologically but that's only effective in limited circumstances (intel gathering not being one of them).
Sodium Pentithol (aka "truth serum") on the other hand is remarkably effective at breaking down defenses and getting truthful confessions however it's use can lead to permenant brain damage (repeated use most certainly will).
Capng123 2 years ago
Wow. Olbermann and this show have similar stories.
Cheshirecatmeow1 2 years ago
4 lights
conduit99 2 years ago
I bomb pakistan after a heavy meal.
yamuboy 2 years ago
Jose Padilla did become a dirty bomber after he had too many burrrrrrrritos:-)
yamuboy 2 years ago
But it works for Jack Bauer any hour of the day, any day of the week.
Timmy23413 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I think in cases where you know the guy has information but he just won't crack, a case for torture can be made. What we heard here was a guy who already cracked and had nothing more to give. Therefore, torture was counter productive.
worldsavy 2 years ago
how the fuck do you know if he has information?! a case for torture cannot be made unless you are a sick sadist.
TAKENnameARGH 2 years ago 5
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If a guy has knowledge of a nuclear threat and we are on a time limit then you can make a very good case for it. In fact, even most liberals agree that in that case you don't have a lot of choice in the matter.
sealsparrow 2 years ago
1) The whole nuclear threat deal is a Hollywood fantasy, it never has and never will happen.
2) Torture doesn't work. If you use all other tactics and they haven't cracked, all torture is going to do is force them lie to you. Even if they do have pertinent information, it will just lead to false intelligence.
Of course in this case the Bush administration wanted false intelligence to bring to Congress and the UN to justify war and they got it.
cg66079 2 years ago 7
cg66079: why couldn't the nuclear threat deal EVER happen?
miguelin97223 2 years ago
well put!
theoneandonlyroelle 2 years ago
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No, the nuclear threat isn't a Hollywood fantasy. Slowly more and more countries are going nuclear. You will also note that there was a Nuclear Physicist who showed that give a little bit of money he could make a nuclear bomb outside of the lab within a few months.
Torture does work. The problem is that once you get all of the information out of the tortured person they begin to lie to you so it is hard if not impossible to tell where the truth stops and the lie starts.
sealsparrow 2 years ago
if its hard if not impossible to tell where the turth stops and the lie starts it dosent work
the point is to get info you can use
dubdub911 2 years ago 2
That's a fun story you made up, are you being tortured right now?
kewltony 2 years ago
Learn your history. Torture is not useful in 99% of all situations, but there are certain situations where it is useful (not the ones in which Bush used it but sill). It can also be used to scare your enemies if times are desperate enough.
sealsparrow 2 years ago
Again, that's a nice story you made up.
kewltony 2 years ago
Incorrect. Trained soldiers know how to deal with torture. They have pre-made stories that when checked would seem plossible, and they are trained to continue, building on those stories to seem desperate, to the point the tortured soldier believe in the stories himself.
Training on torture is the most common training in all military systems I know of. And in secret groups, it is not only common, it is in some cases taken beyond what we can imagine.
GnosticAtheist 2 years ago 3
Incorrect. Talk to a soldier they will tell you people always tell the truth and lies eventually if the torture is bad enough you will tell them anything. Plus, only special forces and 'high risk' people are trained this way not the average soldier. They are also only trained to last a little while so we can deploy rescue operations. They tend to focus more on escape and evasion. Look at the success of the POW camps in previous wars before you make such a comment.
sealsparrow 2 years ago
touché!
1315229 2 years ago
I am a trained soldier. When I was 20 I enrolled, and more then a month of my training was how to funtion under torture. I will admit that I was triained for guard duty and as such was trained more then your average soldier in torture, but it is simple to lie under torture as long as you "believe" what you are saying.
GnosticAtheist 2 years ago 11
Okay, my whole family is in the military. I know guys who were actually tortured during Vietnam. They talked eventually. It is easy to say that during training you won't talk, but when you are watching the people you trained with scream in pain while waiting for your turn to get beat down on and have bamboo shoots shoved under your fingernails it is a completely different story. You can be trained to resist things like water boarding but I'm talking real torture.
sealsparrow 2 years ago
sure people talk, but they talk bullshit, they make up anything to make the pain stop, Mc Cain admitted he talked and that he made up most of what he said.
Bubba186 2 years ago
The key word is most. First they lie then eventually they tell the truth then they lie some more, but if you have several people telling lies their will be a common truth which when combined with other evidence can point you in the right direction. This is why this kind of torture is flawed because this isn't the proper time to use it. You use it when you already know the person knows something and you have other leads and a short time period in which to get an answer. It's use is VERY limited.
sealsparrow 2 years ago
here is another way "most" applies, most military do not recieve any torture training at all, all I got was a lecture on things they will tell you to get you to talk. By the time you get someone in a prison they have had plenty of time to make up things to tell you, the only way it might be effective would right on the spot if you started shooting off fingers before they had time to make things up, but that is not going ot happen, so it is useless and we should not do it.
Bubba186 2 years ago
Like I said, torture in this situation was dumb. If you wait to long then plans will be changed and even if you get the truth it is pointless. The only time it would be remotely useful is if you want to scare the troops of another country or you are in a situation where you need the information right away and you know he has the info in which case they would do what you said above and start right away.
sealsparrow 2 years ago 2
Reading your comment is torture.
devourerofbabies 2 years ago
Then I am a happy camper.
GnosticAtheist 2 years ago
That's all well and good, but how do you know for sure that the guy has information? These people though Zubaida had information, and it turns out he didn't... the guy you think "has information but just won't crack" could just as easily have nothing to give. And even if he does have something to give, there's no reason he won't just lie and make things up to conceal the truth.
Namari12 2 years ago 5
Also malarky, all the BS about reading body language.
franksnow79 2 years ago
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Ever occur to you that maybe all of this was misinformation put out to cover how well torture actually does work? And it can't be military, that would be an easily prosecutable crime under the UCMJ. It has to be civilians; usually CIA, DIA, or one of the other belt and suspenders agencies. Want to know what doesn't work: all the daytime TV malarky about truth drugs and lie detectors.
franksnow79 2 years ago
In the Middle Ages people confessed being witches and what not to the inquisition. Yep torture, excuse me I meant "enhanced interrogation", is very reliable.
How could the US sink so low...
Northern5tar 2 years ago
A Spanish court has begun investigations into whether bush officials provided a legal framework for torture (alberto gonzales, john woo and others are being investigated).
This is the same court that was responsible for the arrest of the former chilean dictator augosto pinochet. You guys should do a story on this.
sunwing28 2 years ago 2
anyone who thinks that torture is okay should be submitted to water boarding/ fingerbreaking/ dental torture, then asked immediately after if its okay, they say yes continue torture, they say no let them go.
Garsha321 2 years ago
Dick Cheney is not a fool - he's a clever criminal.
menthol5 2 years ago
we had a discussion about torture in class last week... We have 2 military personnel in the class and they are against torture.. and they were very strong in their convictions
they even say that torture leads to false information
it just give you a sense of how little the big guys on top really know...
Unekwu89 2 years ago 2
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who cares if torture is unreliable. IT'S FUN! capture a terrorist, cut off his toes and fingers, shove a broomstick up his hairy muslim ass and make him sweep the floor, piss on his face, douse him in gasoline and let the barbecue begin
pulsar00815 2 years ago
I hope you were joking because if not you need to be in a mental institution.
degraves2003 2 years ago 3
yea well then lets torture your ass and lets see how FUN its is as you say
raughn3 2 years ago
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nope cuz I'm not a filthy terrorist u pussyass faggot
pulsar00815 2 years ago
Jesus f'in Christ man, I saw this video, figured i'd make a comment that pulsar would dispute these findings as he enjoys torture and bdsm quite a lot and you already commented. Do you ever leave youtube? Your here more than I am.
jsg103 2 years ago 2
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I luv the young turkeys dude. watching it is better than bdsm and torture
pulsar00815 2 years ago
pulsar you just said you like bdsm.
john135246alias 2 years ago 2
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yeah I do! almost as much as I like shutting down SexyPatriot's channel from time to time
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
pulsar00815 2 years ago
Comment removed
john135246alias 2 years ago
you admit you like to be beaten up pulsar by women?
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
john135246alias 2 years ago 3
Dog, i just had gotten on youtube yesterday for the first time all day kid. u could u must not have nothing to do if u looking up my profile son.
raughn3 2 years ago
I don't have a clue what your talking about, I never looked at your profile
jsg103 2 years ago
i wish I could see ya ass n person. yous a fuckin internet thug. talking shit like that ill get you killed son, so just chill.
raughn3 2 years ago
If you torture people you can get them to admit they are witches ... complete with flying broomsticks.
Want real info? Use a truth drug & lie detector.
PlayT0E 2 years ago
"If you torture people you can get them to admit they are witches ..."
They just did that in Botswana the other day.
cynisturb 2 years ago 2
The only thing torture is usfull for is to get false confessions, it fails at everything else.
Good old slow but steady convincing and friendly brainwashing is MUCH better at getting infromation.
But it takes time.
qanazir 2 years ago 5
yeah but you'll waste more time chasing false leads and in the end you get nothing
TheFunkyDomination 2 years ago 3
Not true. You get good intel.
cynisturb 2 years ago
Are you going to support that claim or simply state it?
IdleBystander1 2 years ago
torture does not work..............if i had electrodes strapped to my nutsack, hell id say anything.
ZAPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!
YEAH I FUCKED MY SISTER AND MY DOG!!!!!!
ZAPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!
YEAH! I DID IT I DID IT GODDAMNIT!!!
ZAPPPPPPPPP!!!!!
crowdaddy13 2 years ago 8
Watch Dragonball evolution=Torture. lol
grimmdoom 2 years ago 5
lol omg totally. or street fighter, the legend of chun li. chris kleins horrible acting will make them break! XD
duckmanx88 2 years ago
lol make 'em watch Batman and Robin
Vash1202 2 years ago
totally lol
grimmdoom 2 years ago
hell, make them watch super mario bros, lol those movies are the ultimate weapons in making people crack.
grimmdoom 2 years ago
OMGLMAO
Azzaiel 2 years ago
seriously, it's the year of crap film adaptations lol, torture devices.
grimmdoom 2 years ago 2
i heard about it looked it up and almost killed myself /facepalm
...why?
i did the "i'm unclean crying from rape montage".
Azzaiel 2 years ago
I know I mean the healing properties of the Kamehameha wave are enough to call this film garbage.
grimmdoom 2 years ago
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaahhhhhh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
Azzaiel 2 years ago
Torture doesn't work. Neither does interrogation with criminals. No one is going to admit something for free.
flyingtorpedo 2 years ago
idk if torture works or not. maybe we should start playing young turk videosat Gitmo and find out for ourselves?
nickd4818 2 years ago
then why watch?
TheFunkyDomination 2 years ago
Cheney and Bush are war criminals and should be waterboarded.
burntonion05 2 years ago 6
if torture worked, and we have all these guys with information, why couldn't Bush find Bin Laden? why have we made almost no progress at all? most of the guys at gitmo probably don't know shit, and if they did, the information is so stale now that it means nothing.
Bubba186 2 years ago 9
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probably cause dick cheyney was to busy fucking your mother.
nickd4818 2 years ago
We are almost sure he's in Pakistan but we can't just waltz in there without starting a much larger war.
gamingeagle19 2 years ago 2
Please son, Bush didnt even want to catch Bin Ladin. They had him cornered in Torra Bora and let him escape. Read "Jawbreaker".
zeitgeisthero 2 years ago 3
Don't take it personally if I choose to say you are full of crap.
gamingeagle19 2 years ago
I don't know. I get the idea that catching Osama would be a politically good move for Bush. Better than sitting in the desert for seven years and looking like a fool.
Zekkron 2 years ago