Varangian is the slavic name for people from Scandinavia, mostly Sweden. These men from the north (Varjager in Swedish) often worked as bodygards for russian princes, but they also could work as merchants. The vikings working as soldiers and bodyguards for the Byzantine Emperor where called "Väringar" in Scandinavia. Väringar translates to conscripts in English. The Scandinavian languages where more similare during the Viking era. Non the less, the word "Varangian" is Slavic.
Sure that both have their own pros and cons, if you put a decent samurai say...Mushashi for example vs a normal Viking, you know the story but the same can happen the other way around when Ragnar Lodbrok beating up a half-ass Samurai. In the end, stop this useless fight over which is better, you'd rather prove your theories by doing it than mouthing off here.
very nice , i havent watched too many of these fights but the ones ive seen just looked ... like playtime they didnt look like the two were fighting, this one did!
i think that the katana is an overly rated weapon, it was pretty much the same as every other swords, some could be extremelly well made and balanced wheras others could be complete maces
katana was only a good weapon against the enemies he knew, when fighting a knight or viking or any other european enemy it would be next to useless, since its almost mainly slashing weapon and it cannot pierce chainmail plate armor
my thoughts exactly. varangians would have destroyed the samurai. they had improved armor and weapons. that slim margin of win would have been taken away by the raw power of the varangian guard.
To be honest, I'd like to know who the short guy was and where he came from... he was certainly NOT well learned on Viking history OR tactics... I'd meet him and the tall one, together in the circle, or on a cloak! ~ BIG EVIL GRIN
im pretty sure they were just some dudes they found that kinda knew what was up. he knew the weapons, sort of. that was NOT a great axe he had at all. plus they never talked about the stabbing and leg hooking that makes it such a deadly tool. the sword damage was pretty sweet though. made the naginata look weak in comparison. who uses the shield as a purely offensive weapon either,not the brightest guys, along with the double spear throw. that was made up.
@flintrocks umm, I'm not at all into the Eastern stuff but I thought samurai used hardened leather, silk, some maille and sparse bits of plate? I know they certainly don't wear anything close to western/European plate armor.
@skallagrimm Nah, what they wore was more like a coat of plates. They had a bunch of plates, like, you know what gold bars look like in the movies? they basicly had those, in a bunch of slots put together. If youv ever seen football pant, the way it has slots that you put the pads in, its basicly like that, but just in bars, with about 4 inch thick steel plates in each slot, and each slot spaced like nearly touching eachother, covered with hardened leather
@seanmizusmc Was the varangian guard around during fuedal Japan? Because Varangians were early 8th-10th C. Fuedal Japan was 13th-14th C prominently. and from there on was still somewhat in the mid ages even while all the rest of the world was in the renaissance.
Incorrect. The Varangian Guard was developed by the Byzantine Empire after the Vikings attacked and the Byzantine King was so impressed with their fighting prowess, he hired them on as mercenaries. Earliest accounts are in the first years of the 10th century, latest are around the 15th. They would have been right at the beginning of Feudal Japan. Viking age was from about 750 AD to about the 12-13th century.
@seanmizusmc ''my thoughts exactly. varangians would have destroyed the samurai. they had improved armor and weapons. that slim margin of win would have been taken away by the raw power of the varangian guard.''
they needed to have you on SPIKE TV to rep the vikings man. it was shameful to lose to a samurai...who also barely won (by about 50 points out of a total 1000 available) against a warrior who was 650 years less advanced than him...stoopid samurai, didnt you know vikings dominated over EVERYONE and not just one another (like the samurai did, conquering NO ONE outside of japan).
I can dig it. They only spoke of the run of the mill viking raider. They never mentioned the Varagarian Guard or the Jomsvikings. Those men were professional soldiers. 24/7 hard corp mercs that trained daily and had to be good in order to be alive to get paid. Those men, IMO, would have been a good match for any warrior in melee combat.
@skallagrimm um, any plate armor? its generaly all the same, large, slanted metal plates. A sword wouldnt do ANYTHING to plate. An axe would barely do anything to plate, its been tested. Any cutting weapon like a sword would even be useless against chainmail, even the razor sharp katana that could cut through 3-4 pig spines cleanly didnt do jack shit to plate/mail armor
@flintrocks I'm not asking you to explain armor to me, thank you very much. You said to me " I dunno, the plate armor" and I'm asking you what your talking about as there is no plate in this video.
@skallagrimm if you saw the comment i replied to, it was just you said "i would have torn that samurai up" or something, because someone said it was stupid that a samurai beat a viking on that show
I know, the viking can block or stop any samurai attack. The samurai cant block the great axe. They also made the viking all slow and stupid but that aint true, vikings were fast and...semi-smart lol. Like once the samurai swings his club its over, the viking will bury his axe in the Samurais chest.
@flintrocks um no it wouldn't if you are referring to the viking vs samurai episode. First that was a wood chopper axe not the true Dane axe. 2 the wood chopper had a shorter handle and he was just doing a down swing on a ROUND helmet he would went on the side he would of crushed the small plates that protects the neck. The Axe would of crushed his breast plate since the axe, mace and war hammer were made for such things.3 as for samurai armor it would depend of which era and its not steel pla
@Thunar55 count. not steel plates but iron plates. It is called Lamillar (sp?) it its main purpose was to absorb the impact from arrows not from crushing blows from axes and such. That episode and 99 percent of DW episodes are bullshit. Skallagrimm or I and a host of Norse reenactors could tell you a lot of misinformation on that show. Oh yes Skallagrimm is right he would torn that little samurai up considering that guy was not even samurai but a CANADIAN comedian just google the guys name.
@Thunar55 Im sorry, but you dont know what your talking about. Lamellar armor is overlapping boiled leather! Sammurai did NOT use that. They used steel/iron plated armor. And no, Axes werent made to go through plate armor, they were used in battle because they cleaved straight through chain mail. However, against armor like the samurai, it would NOT go through. It wouldnt do much. and your sword? HAH the sword wouldnt do ANYTHING to that armor. read up about some of this stuff
@flintrocks Sorry dude you have no idea what you are talking about Lamellar can be either boiled leather or iron plates that is what the overlapped plates (leather or iron) are is Lamellar. I never said that the axe was made to go through plate it would crush the plate and no it wasn't even made to cleave through maille either. Also yes it would damage the samurai armor. So what have we learned oh that is it it is your need to read books instead look at the pictures and coloring them.
@Thunar55 Thats funny.... considering the main reason people used it was to cleave through mail because of the weight (now im not sure about why vikings used it because i dont really like them) but everyone else did, which is why they mad a falchion, so it could have the weight of an axe to cleave through mail, and the versatility of a sword. Regardless, it wouldnt crush the plates, iron or steel, it might dent it, but it wont do any real damage to the guy inside. Its been tested, look it up
@flintrocks thats funny because the long dane axe was for more of their ship battles plus you are partial right the weight but it was blunt force drama because maile is dead weight but it wasn't for cleaving maile, and yes it would crush the plates and yes it has been tested so look it up.
@seanmizusmc normally I would agree however I must remind you of the fluke battle againsdt the mongols due to the mongols not realizing the day was theirs
In the...16?...years the group has been active, there has been only one injury requiring a hospital visit, that for a dislocated shoulder caused by a hard landing. No broken bones, or worse, but we do get our fair share of bruises, which happens with any decent physical activity.
I'm familiar with the SCA style, though I haven't tried it myself. Each group makes certain sacrifices to get the result they want. To the best of my knowledge, we sacrifice certain hit areas (no headshots, for instance) to obtain safety, whereas the SCA uses rattan weapons and massive amounts of armor.
We have more of a 'for the viewer' approach, so thusly the difference. We're also much smaller, and thusly, more close-knit.
You are absolutely correct, but i can not but wonder how it would feel to "fight" your way (how many times have we not dreamt of living in the past) :P
Take a look around, and you might be surprised at the other groups you'll find. I don't know about Sweden in particular (I looked at your profile), but I know Denmark has a particularly good group called Ulfhednir. You're in the heartland of 'vikingdom', so I'm sure there's somebody.
i'm curious, are you using dull blades? that neck-slashing at the end looked potentially fatal in the real world sense. awesome videos and work you guys are doing!
That is not a very polite comment Skallagrimm. Civility is not your forte is it? I should shall bash your pointy little head with my great big axe! Alas! Too many idiots and too little time!
Well this is great, I was there to see this performance (wearing Franciscan monks robes). You guys do put on a great show. "Toxamica" frome one Dane to another :)
Excellent vids Skallagrim, way better than the "vikings UK" stuff I've seen elsewhere. I also am a viking reenactor and WMA practitioner do you ever use the "la jeu de la hache" moves with the haft of the axe. I have and find them to be particularly useful, also does your group have a name I can look up outside of youtube?
It think this is a fun and great video, people need to stop hating. but skallagrim I would respect you more if you didn't act so childish to every negative comment. just take it in stride or blow it off man. It's Youtube, not the end of the world. Just have fun with what you do
I'm not looking for your respect, or anyone else's for that matter. This is what we do, and I take it very serious. So, when some no-mind wants to give his two cents, I give it right back.... anyone that doesn't like it should pound sand.
skallagrim I love what you do and think it's awesome no matter what the no-minds say, but don't drop to their level, it's just not cool. I meen the stuff you do is sweet and you look like you take it seriously and have fun too. but you come off as a real jerk who disgacess what you do. I only said what I did as a token of advice and you threw it in my face. why?
Actually I didn't throw anything back at you. My comments are directed to the "no-minds" and are meant to be abrasive cuz that's how I take their uneducated remarks. I'm not stooping to anyone's "level" when I say it like it is in defence of what I and my fellow members have put blood, sweat, and tears into for over twelve years. Besides, I'm a Viking... not a Public Relations Consultant. If someone doesn't like it, they are welcome to show up and TRY doing something about it.
I think that it is funny that he gets mad at peoples comments and say that they are uneducated when he does the same thing to other people. There were some very abrasive remarks on some SCA videos left by skallagrimm.
Personally I think that it is pointless to argue. We all enjoy the live history/medieval/whatever reenactments so why do we fight each other. The we all do the same thing just slightly different.
Well, I think these men have skill, a great deal of it. I agree, fighting is pointless, after all why not enjoy what we do. Just because you have an opinion doesn't serve as qualification for lambastation. people are so touchy lol
Now let's see...medeival swordsmen exhibited more finesse in their swordsmanship rather than being lumbering hulks using pure brute strength...hmmmmm?
And that pure brute strength is what would crush your little melon of a head.... which is why you'll always be the chump that types his oppinions rather than having the guts to show up and test them in person.
Obviously hitting the shield DID have an effect, in that I got past it. Oh, and look closer 'cuz niether one of us is wearing maille.
This is LIVE (non-choreographed) STEEL (not foam) COMBAT (no dancing). I watched your vids and can only say that I don't expect a boffer nerd to understand what we do.
Yes, I am. Obviously, the quality is so bad (youtube sucks) that the grey clothing appeared to be maille.
The "boffer" club, I do for fun and getting some practice. For techniques, I do ARMA, 3 times a week, for a couple of years now.
You're just hacking away at his shield, at half-speed (can't blame you, you are using steel), and it certainly ain't "combat", it's just freeplay with rebated swords. I see no techniques.
If it was a Live Steel "Combat", one of you should've been dead.
So you're not a nerd, you're a dork. I am amused with your insisting to call it live steel, even after having it explained.
Oh, and do you have some notion that there are predescribed techniques for Viking period combat. By the way, we ARE also trained in, and do 13th-15th Cent. longsword fencing in Del Libri and Talhoffer styles.
There were'nt treatises or any other written insights into how Vikings fought. Most likely it was hard and mean, and not like later period fencing.
You said it was live steel "combat", explained or not. Choose better words next time. And what's with the epithets? Did I touch a soft spot or something?
No, there aren't predescribed techniques for Vikings, they didn't leave oral tradition nor fechtbuchs behind. The best you can do is study sword & buckler from I.33 and approximate, since it's closer than any other fechtbuch to that time period and to the weapons used.
The "Combat" was the part that bugged me, not Live Steel, which is a viable term, in a manner of speaking.
Later Period Fencing IS both hard, and mean. It's just more codified and more precise.
It's Fiore Dei Liberi, by the way, and why not Liechtenauer and Ringeck? Talhoffer's fechtbuch is not very useful unless you've already studied the founders of the German School.
Longsword fencing (As far as we know) started in Late 14th century (1389).
How do you think the 'byzantine cataphracts' you name yourself after learned to fight? You think they learned it from a book?
"Combat" and 'martial arts' are two very different things. What you describe are martial arts. The reality of combat is very little like martial arts. There's no time to try and remember some technique, or back away from your opponent honorably.
If this isn't combat, why did the Byzantines so heavily rely upon the people who practiced EXACTLY this style of fighting?
1)Considering the Byzantines were a people who left manuals for nearly everything (including surviving Tactical manuals), yes, I do, in the sense that they definitely left fechtbuchs.
You can't learn such a thing from a book UNLESS you work, hard, for years, and accept readily that what you'll come up with will never rival the original writer. But you settle for that, because it's no better than being shown stuff that was shown by a guy who was shown by a guy etc. etc for centuries.
2)No, they are not. Martial Arts (in the original definition: Arts designed to defend yourself by neutralizing your opponent by any menas necessary) are what combat is all about, or should be, at least. Try and remember techniques? Techniques should come to you flawlessly, immediately, and be executed correctly, because they are simple and effective. And noone mentioned back away- there's a ton of techniques for dealing with the opponent (or you) closing in).
They didn't rely on them because they practiced this "style" of fighting. They relied on them because after the Macedonian Dynasty, Byzantine army was crap and they relied heavily on mercenaries. Especially the Varangian Guard was useful to the emperor because their loyalties lied to their oaths and would not murder him like local guardsmen if they were bribed or believed in a different leader.
And because they were big, strong brutes, of course.
What you list is the reality of a professional soldier. Until modern times, these men were few and far between. Roman legionnaires, before they transformed into the comitatenses, were exactly these sort of men. This is not true of the middle ages, except in very rare cases. What you have learned is the ideal, with little attention paid to the daily reality. Combat is not always stylized, perfectly organized. It is simply physical conflict, between two or more sides.
I'm not saying the average soldier, professional or not, was a good fighter. Indeed, the vast majority of them were trained to fight as a unit, not as individuals.
Martial artists were few back then, but they existed, and that's what we're training for. If I had seen what I saw above as part of unit combat, I'd be impressed. But I just saw two guys with minimal training banging each other until one guy trapped the other guy's shield and hit him.
Then if combat is chaotic, don't call something chaotic 'not combat'. If you'd said 'this isn't a particularly refined martial art', you still might've made some people annoyed for sitting on your high horse like an arse, but at least you'd have the benefit of actually saying something with real meaning.
If I ever go to Greece (and I do so desperately want to), I'll look you up and we can demonstrate the differences to each other. I think you might be surprised.
Then pardon me for not being clear. It's not always easy to convey certain meanings across the net.
But it's not combat, because there's no real violence involved. Neither have I been in combat, and if I'm lucky I'll never be. Like I said, I'm strict with certain definitions, otherwise they get watered down.
You're welcome :D I look forward to that. I always like meeting fellow WMA practitioners.
P.S.: I'm trying to imagine an arse sitting atop a horse... :P
actually its far from banging away at each other. i can say this as i am the one who dies in this one. our group trains weekly, studies the use of our weapons and take it seriously. not flailing at each other like sca types. lots of blocks strikes etc till one gets or makes an opening and takes it. we forge and make all our kit and train regularly as a unit and individual combat. either way works for us vikings.
That may be, but in the video I saw only two attacks (an uberhau and an unterhau, and just shield blocks. You came up close and I saw no shield bashing, no efficient sidestepping, and no good footwork (hands were out of sync with feet).
And you are supposed to have as few strikes as possible to neutralize an opponent.
i will give u one thing, my footwork did suck. three shows, 10 hours and maybe 15 fights on a 98 deg day one can get sloppy and tired. shieldbashing is relatively pointless however and as far as strikes it was done in 15 secs. how few strikes would you like to see, maybe 10 secs. feel better. lose your hockeymask and boffer like a big boy and maybe you'll gain some credability.
As for credibility, I'm an ARMA scholar for two years now. I have plenty of that, after being bruised and battered in countless freeplays with nothing but wood and a fencing mask :)
Feel free to comment on how I suck, but please do so by identifying where as far as technique goes instead of just criticising my equipment.
honestly i didnt watch your technique as i opted to not hit play as soon as i saw the boffer and hockey mask. that summed it up before it began, it was charming lok though, suits you good. anyhow going back to work now. tell yur mom i said hi.
I am not going to deny that Clements was a pioneer... but the keyword is "was". Medieval Swordmenship (which I admit I own) is now considered outdated.
You guys are only big because of your numbers, not your quality. In fact some of the work published by ARMA on both German longsword and Fiore has set back the study of the Art rather than pushed it forward.
Plus, John shoots himself in the foot by trying to pull of publicity stunts like "Knight vs. Samurai" and running his mouth.
First of all, he himself admits it is outdated. That 's proof he doesn't hesitate to change.
I fail to see how it has "set back the study of the Art". Wrong teachings or interpretations? Our stuff is tried and true, that's the basis. If it doesn't work, then we didn't interpret it right, so off we go again.
As for Knight vs Samurai, it's more of a move to educate the ignorant masses that think katana=lightsaber rather than a publicity stunt.
Perhaps I should concede some points. I will be the first to acknowledge that John did write a very good work, but the issue is that it is now outdated, and he is has failed to write any thing of quality after it, and that which he has written has been panned widely outside of ARMA.
Sorry, but the knight vs. samurai was not educational in terms of disproving "katana=lightsaber" (which most in both the JSA and HEMA community think is a silly notion anyway) it was a PR stunt that insulted many.
First of all... THANK YOU. It was about time I had some intelligent conversation here.
I'll be frank here. The reason that John doesn't do that anymore is because he's become very introverted, if you catch my drift. He's all for ARMA. Now, that's his choice, even though I don't agree 100% with it, but I respect it. He's still as good a teacher as any, and a great fighter.
Of course, it can get quite frustrating over what stuff we "can" show to other WMA-ists, so we can compare notes.
That's some serious fury you've got there. Clausewitz would approve.
ControltheDistance 2 weeks ago
Varangian is the slavic name for people from Scandinavia, mostly Sweden. These men from the north (Varjager in Swedish) often worked as bodygards for russian princes, but they also could work as merchants. The vikings working as soldiers and bodyguards for the Byzantine Emperor where called "Väringar" in Scandinavia. Väringar translates to conscripts in English. The Scandinavian languages where more similare during the Viking era. Non the less, the word "Varangian" is Slavic.
Beezhunter 6 months ago
I love how you used ur shield to make his shield innefective.
drizztdourden66 8 months ago
thats pretty realistic not like some re-enactments you see
thestrid82 8 months ago
watching comments about Vikings vs Samurais
*facepalms*
Sure that both have their own pros and cons, if you put a decent samurai say...Mushashi for example vs a normal Viking, you know the story but the same can happen the other way around when Ragnar Lodbrok beating up a half-ass Samurai. In the end, stop this useless fight over which is better, you'd rather prove your theories by doing it than mouthing off here.
TigerClaws12894 9 months ago
I am proud to be a Swede. The varangians were Swedes.
FrostStoltz 10 months ago
very nice , i havent watched too many of these fights but the ones ive seen just looked ... like playtime they didnt look like the two were fighting, this one did!
boomunderscore0 10 months ago
Pretty nice fighting :) .. but what does viking battle have to do with samurai plate ??
fiskerlord 1 year ago
Ouch, pretty nice stuff.
666satanification666 1 year ago
Warangian Warior Win
MrRobokoper 1 year ago
Seriously, what is this? it looks like the guy gets stabbed for real.... how do you do this ?
flintrocks 1 year ago
viking pwnage
fillepus 1 year ago
Leet, he got owned xD
Aserox 2 years ago
great vids Ja!!!!!!!!
ThegnThrand 2 years ago
i think that the katana is an overly rated weapon, it was pretty much the same as every other swords, some could be extremelly well made and balanced wheras others could be complete maces
whowantsabighug 2 years ago 2
proper katana kick ass, most today are crap but if you get one made right i would have it over any other weapon
canti1988 2 years ago
yeah but only the richest knights and samurais could afford the level of weapon you're referring to
whowantsabighug 2 years ago
And we are niether, so drop it already.....
skallagrimm 2 years ago
Shut up you dumb fuck, you dont know shit. Crawl back to wow.
geekpubb 2 years ago
@geekpubb ummm what?
whowantsabighug 2 years ago
katana was only a good weapon against the enemies he knew, when fighting a knight or viking or any other european enemy it would be next to useless, since its almost mainly slashing weapon and it cannot pierce chainmail plate armor
samgillispwnage 1 year ago
my thoughts exactly. varangians would have destroyed the samurai. they had improved armor and weapons. that slim margin of win would have been taken away by the raw power of the varangian guard.
seanmizusmc 2 years ago 14
To be honest, I'd like to know who the short guy was and where he came from... he was certainly NOT well learned on Viking history OR tactics... I'd meet him and the tall one, together in the circle, or on a cloak! ~ BIG EVIL GRIN
skallagrimm 2 years ago
im pretty sure they were just some dudes they found that kinda knew what was up. he knew the weapons, sort of. that was NOT a great axe he had at all. plus they never talked about the stabbing and leg hooking that makes it such a deadly tool. the sword damage was pretty sweet though. made the naginata look weak in comparison. who uses the shield as a purely offensive weapon either,not the brightest guys, along with the double spear throw. that was made up.
seanmizusmc 2 years ago 2
@seanmizusmc A sword is still a cutting weapon.... samurai is using PLATE armor, heavy duty plate
flintrocks 1 year ago
@flintrocks umm, I'm not at all into the Eastern stuff but I thought samurai used hardened leather, silk, some maille and sparse bits of plate? I know they certainly don't wear anything close to western/European plate armor.
skallagrimm 1 year ago
@skallagrimm Nah, what they wore was more like a coat of plates. They had a bunch of plates, like, you know what gold bars look like in the movies? they basicly had those, in a bunch of slots put together. If youv ever seen football pant, the way it has slots that you put the pads in, its basicly like that, but just in bars, with about 4 inch thick steel plates in each slot, and each slot spaced like nearly touching eachother, covered with hardened leather
flintrocks 1 year ago
@flintrocks Samurai armor did, in fact, feature a steel plate in all of those layers.
TeeDgeXXVI 1 year ago
@seanmizusmc Was the varangian guard around during fuedal Japan? Because Varangians were early 8th-10th C. Fuedal Japan was 13th-14th C prominently. and from there on was still somewhat in the mid ages even while all the rest of the world was in the renaissance.
ponyfang 1 year ago
@ponyfang
Incorrect. The Varangian Guard was developed by the Byzantine Empire after the Vikings attacked and the Byzantine King was so impressed with their fighting prowess, he hired them on as mercenaries. Earliest accounts are in the first years of the 10th century, latest are around the 15th. They would have been right at the beginning of Feudal Japan. Viking age was from about 750 AD to about the 12-13th century.
seanmizusmc 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@seanmizusmc ''my thoughts exactly. varangians would have destroyed the samurai. they had improved armor and weapons. that slim margin of win would have been taken away by the raw power of the varangian guard.''
What ''raw power''?
jaskamakkara 10 months ago
they needed to have you on SPIKE TV to rep the vikings man. it was shameful to lose to a samurai...who also barely won (by about 50 points out of a total 1000 available) against a warrior who was 650 years less advanced than him...stoopid samurai, didnt you know vikings dominated over EVERYONE and not just one another (like the samurai did, conquering NO ONE outside of japan).
seanmizusmc 2 years ago 2
I can dig it. They only spoke of the run of the mill viking raider. They never mentioned the Varagarian Guard or the Jomsvikings. Those men were professional soldiers. 24/7 hard corp mercs that trained daily and had to be good in order to be alive to get paid. Those men, IMO, would have been a good match for any warrior in melee combat.
MoshotheSpear 2 years ago 3
What the hell, I'd throw down with the two samurai after I'm done with the psuedo-Vikes.
skallagrimm 2 years ago
@skallagrimm I dunno..... the plate armor.....
flintrocks 1 year ago
@flintrocks What plate armor are you talking about?
skallagrimm 1 year ago
@skallagrimm um, any plate armor? its generaly all the same, large, slanted metal plates. A sword wouldnt do ANYTHING to plate. An axe would barely do anything to plate, its been tested. Any cutting weapon like a sword would even be useless against chainmail, even the razor sharp katana that could cut through 3-4 pig spines cleanly didnt do jack shit to plate/mail armor
flintrocks 1 year ago
@flintrocks I'm not asking you to explain armor to me, thank you very much. You said to me " I dunno, the plate armor" and I'm asking you what your talking about as there is no plate in this video.
skallagrimm 1 year ago
@skallagrimm if you saw the comment i replied to, it was just you said "i would have torn that samurai up" or something, because someone said it was stupid that a samurai beat a viking on that show
flintrocks 1 year ago
I know, the viking can block or stop any samurai attack. The samurai cant block the great axe. They also made the viking all slow and stupid but that aint true, vikings were fast and...semi-smart lol. Like once the samurai swings his club its over, the viking will bury his axe in the Samurais chest.
WolfOfBloodAndBone 2 years ago 10
@WolfOfBloodAndBone axe would probably bounce off the steel plates he has on his chest...
flintrocks 1 year ago
@flintrocks um no it wouldn't if you are referring to the viking vs samurai episode. First that was a wood chopper axe not the true Dane axe. 2 the wood chopper had a shorter handle and he was just doing a down swing on a ROUND helmet he would went on the side he would of crushed the small plates that protects the neck. The Axe would of crushed his breast plate since the axe, mace and war hammer were made for such things.3 as for samurai armor it would depend of which era and its not steel pla
Thunar55 1 year ago
@Thunar55 count. not steel plates but iron plates. It is called Lamillar (sp?) it its main purpose was to absorb the impact from arrows not from crushing blows from axes and such. That episode and 99 percent of DW episodes are bullshit. Skallagrimm or I and a host of Norse reenactors could tell you a lot of misinformation on that show. Oh yes Skallagrimm is right he would torn that little samurai up considering that guy was not even samurai but a CANADIAN comedian just google the guys name.
Thunar55 1 year ago
@Thunar55 Im sorry, but you dont know what your talking about. Lamellar armor is overlapping boiled leather! Sammurai did NOT use that. They used steel/iron plated armor. And no, Axes werent made to go through plate armor, they were used in battle because they cleaved straight through chain mail. However, against armor like the samurai, it would NOT go through. It wouldnt do much. and your sword? HAH the sword wouldnt do ANYTHING to that armor. read up about some of this stuff
flintrocks 1 year ago
@flintrocks Sorry dude you have no idea what you are talking about Lamellar can be either boiled leather or iron plates that is what the overlapped plates (leather or iron) are is Lamellar. I never said that the axe was made to go through plate it would crush the plate and no it wasn't even made to cleave through maille either. Also yes it would damage the samurai armor. So what have we learned oh that is it it is your need to read books instead look at the pictures and coloring them.
Thunar55 1 year ago
@Thunar55 Thats funny.... considering the main reason people used it was to cleave through mail because of the weight (now im not sure about why vikings used it because i dont really like them) but everyone else did, which is why they mad a falchion, so it could have the weight of an axe to cleave through mail, and the versatility of a sword. Regardless, it wouldnt crush the plates, iron or steel, it might dent it, but it wont do any real damage to the guy inside. Its been tested, look it up
flintrocks 1 year ago
@flintrocks thats funny because the long dane axe was for more of their ship battles plus you are partial right the weight but it was blunt force drama because maile is dead weight but it wasn't for cleaving maile, and yes it would crush the plates and yes it has been tested so look it up.
Thunar55 1 year ago
@seanmizusmc normally I would agree however I must remind you of the fluke battle againsdt the mongols due to the mongols not realizing the day was theirs
lockbreak12 1 year ago
Comment removed
Jariik 2 years ago
Theese guys have really good control,
does it happen that you injure yourself sometimes?
TaeIeon 2 years ago
In the...16?...years the group has been active, there has been only one injury requiring a hospital visit, that for a dislocated shoulder caused by a hard landing. No broken bones, or worse, but we do get our fair share of bruises, which happens with any decent physical activity.
Jariik 2 years ago
Man that shows that you are very well trained at this, Respect ;)
I have done some sca tyme of combat (it's a bit different)
TaeIeon 2 years ago
I'm familiar with the SCA style, though I haven't tried it myself. Each group makes certain sacrifices to get the result they want. To the best of my knowledge, we sacrifice certain hit areas (no headshots, for instance) to obtain safety, whereas the SCA uses rattan weapons and massive amounts of armor.
We have more of a 'for the viewer' approach, so thusly the difference. We're also much smaller, and thusly, more close-knit.
Jariik 2 years ago
You are absolutely correct, but i can not but wonder how it would feel to "fight" your way (how many times have we not dreamt of living in the past) :P
TaeIeon 2 years ago
Take a look around, and you might be surprised at the other groups you'll find. I don't know about Sweden in particular (I looked at your profile), but I know Denmark has a particularly good group called Ulfhednir. You're in the heartland of 'vikingdom', so I'm sure there's somebody.
Jariik 2 years ago
Et eksempel på vrede og makt
miotrazon 2 years ago
"An example of anger and power"
On behalf of the group, thank you. It is just a show, but we're glad you got the right impression.
Jariik 2 years ago
Congratulations to the group
miotrazon 2 years ago
Wow that was a nice strike to the head that brought him down.
Sardarkar 2 years ago
nice fight:D when you come to Prag?I wont to fight with skallagrim :D
zuluzuk 3 years ago
i'm curious, are you using dull blades? that neck-slashing at the end looked potentially fatal in the real world sense. awesome videos and work you guys are doing!
trav12th 3 years ago
That is not a very polite comment Skallagrimm. Civility is not your forte is it? I should shall bash your pointy little head with my great big axe! Alas! Too many idiots and too little time!
PublicDisgrace2 3 years ago
Well this is great, I was there to see this performance (wearing Franciscan monks robes). You guys do put on a great show. "Toxamica" frome one Dane to another :)
JishinShugyosha 3 years ago
Excellent vids Skallagrim, way better than the "vikings UK" stuff I've seen elsewhere. I also am a viking reenactor and WMA practitioner do you ever use the "la jeu de la hache" moves with the haft of the axe. I have and find them to be particularly useful, also does your group have a name I can look up outside of youtube?
LutefiskSavage 3 years ago
Click on my name and check out my channel. There is a link to our website in the left column.
skallagrimm 3 years ago
VICTORY!! YAAH!!
Where can I find the dates of your shows?
SilverFangWolfMaster 3 years ago
You can find our website address on my channel. This weekend I'll be updating our schedule for next year's appearances.
skallagrimm 3 years ago
AWESOME!
SilverFangWolfMaster 3 years ago
It think this is a fun and great video, people need to stop hating. but skallagrim I would respect you more if you didn't act so childish to every negative comment. just take it in stride or blow it off man. It's Youtube, not the end of the world. Just have fun with what you do
WhiteTree117 3 years ago
I'm not looking for your respect, or anyone else's for that matter. This is what we do, and I take it very serious. So, when some no-mind wants to give his two cents, I give it right back.... anyone that doesn't like it should pound sand.
skallagrimm 3 years ago
skallagrim I love what you do and think it's awesome no matter what the no-minds say, but don't drop to their level, it's just not cool. I meen the stuff you do is sweet and you look like you take it seriously and have fun too. but you come off as a real jerk who disgacess what you do. I only said what I did as a token of advice and you threw it in my face. why?
WhiteTree117 3 years ago
Actually I didn't throw anything back at you. My comments are directed to the "no-minds" and are meant to be abrasive cuz that's how I take their uneducated remarks. I'm not stooping to anyone's "level" when I say it like it is in defence of what I and my fellow members have put blood, sweat, and tears into for over twelve years. Besides, I'm a Viking... not a Public Relations Consultant. If someone doesn't like it, they are welcome to show up and TRY doing something about it.
skallagrimm 3 years ago
perhapse you are just fed up.
lol I'm a Viking... not a Public Relations Consultant. If someone doesn't like it, they are welcome to show up and TRY doing something about it.
I like that lol
Well that's cool. I know how you feel somtimes.
So were do you guys tour and stuff?
I'd love to come see you and your mates in action
WhiteTree117 3 years ago
I think that it is funny that he gets mad at peoples comments and say that they are uneducated when he does the same thing to other people. There were some very abrasive remarks on some SCA videos left by skallagrimm.
Personally I think that it is pointless to argue. We all enjoy the live history/medieval/whatever reenactments so why do we fight each other. The we all do the same thing just slightly different.
Dagarbers 3 years ago
Well, I think these men have skill, a great deal of it. I agree, fighting is pointless, after all why not enjoy what we do. Just because you have an opinion doesn't serve as qualification for lambastation. people are so touchy lol
just do what you love and love doing it
:)
WhiteTree117 3 years ago
good vid,seen you around SBG, FUCKING BRUITAL
j123metalhead 3 years ago
Now let's see...medeival swordsmen exhibited more finesse in their swordsmanship rather than being lumbering hulks using pure brute strength...hmmmmm?
PublicDisgrace2 3 years ago
And that pure brute strength is what would crush your little melon of a head.... which is why you'll always be the chump that types his oppinions rather than having the guts to show up and test them in person.
skallagrimm 3 years ago
Oh yeah! Well mine is bigger than yours!!!!
PublicDisgrace2 3 years ago
Nice.
You do keep hitting his shield to no avail, however, and then you slice him twice in mail-protected areas until the final throat-slice.
I suppose it's reenactment, then, and not freeplay?
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
Are you actually watching the same video?
Obviously hitting the shield DID have an effect, in that I got past it. Oh, and look closer 'cuz niether one of us is wearing maille.
This is LIVE (non-choreographed) STEEL (not foam) COMBAT (no dancing). I watched your vids and can only say that I don't expect a boffer nerd to understand what we do.
skallagrimm 3 years ago
Yes, I am. Obviously, the quality is so bad (youtube sucks) that the grey clothing appeared to be maille.
The "boffer" club, I do for fun and getting some practice. For techniques, I do ARMA, 3 times a week, for a couple of years now.
You're just hacking away at his shield, at half-speed (can't blame you, you are using steel), and it certainly ain't "combat", it's just freeplay with rebated swords. I see no techniques.
If it was a Live Steel "Combat", one of you should've been dead.
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
So you're not a nerd, you're a dork. I am amused with your insisting to call it live steel, even after having it explained.
Oh, and do you have some notion that there are predescribed techniques for Viking period combat. By the way, we ARE also trained in, and do 13th-15th Cent. longsword fencing in Del Libri and Talhoffer styles.
There were'nt treatises or any other written insights into how Vikings fought. Most likely it was hard and mean, and not like later period fencing.
skallagrimm 3 years ago
You said it was live steel "combat", explained or not. Choose better words next time. And what's with the epithets? Did I touch a soft spot or something?
No, there aren't predescribed techniques for Vikings, they didn't leave oral tradition nor fechtbuchs behind. The best you can do is study sword & buckler from I.33 and approximate, since it's closer than any other fechtbuch to that time period and to the weapons used.
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
Continuing,
The "Combat" was the part that bugged me, not Live Steel, which is a viable term, in a manner of speaking.
Later Period Fencing IS both hard, and mean. It's just more codified and more precise.
It's Fiore Dei Liberi, by the way, and why not Liechtenauer and Ringeck? Talhoffer's fechtbuch is not very useful unless you've already studied the founders of the German School.
Longsword fencing (As far as we know) started in Late 14th century (1389).
Which organization are you in?
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
The one your mom belongs to, poser.
But hey, keep studying. Someday you might figure it out.
skallagrimm 3 years ago
Yes, how mature. Keep on the "reenacting" and maybe sometime you'll get some actual technique done that's not LARPing.
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
How do you think the 'byzantine cataphracts' you name yourself after learned to fight? You think they learned it from a book?
"Combat" and 'martial arts' are two very different things. What you describe are martial arts. The reality of combat is very little like martial arts. There's no time to try and remember some technique, or back away from your opponent honorably.
If this isn't combat, why did the Byzantines so heavily rely upon the people who practiced EXACTLY this style of fighting?
Jariik 3 years ago
1)Considering the Byzantines were a people who left manuals for nearly everything (including surviving Tactical manuals), yes, I do, in the sense that they definitely left fechtbuchs.
You can't learn such a thing from a book UNLESS you work, hard, for years, and accept readily that what you'll come up with will never rival the original writer. But you settle for that, because it's no better than being shown stuff that was shown by a guy who was shown by a guy etc. etc for centuries.
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
2)No, they are not. Martial Arts (in the original definition: Arts designed to defend yourself by neutralizing your opponent by any menas necessary) are what combat is all about, or should be, at least. Try and remember techniques? Techniques should come to you flawlessly, immediately, and be executed correctly, because they are simple and effective. And noone mentioned back away- there's a ton of techniques for dealing with the opponent (or you) closing in).
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
They didn't rely on them because they practiced this "style" of fighting. They relied on them because after the Macedonian Dynasty, Byzantine army was crap and they relied heavily on mercenaries. Especially the Varangian Guard was useful to the emperor because their loyalties lied to their oaths and would not murder him like local guardsmen if they were bribed or believed in a different leader.
And because they were big, strong brutes, of course.
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
What you list is the reality of a professional soldier. Until modern times, these men were few and far between. Roman legionnaires, before they transformed into the comitatenses, were exactly these sort of men. This is not true of the middle ages, except in very rare cases. What you have learned is the ideal, with little attention paid to the daily reality. Combat is not always stylized, perfectly organized. It is simply physical conflict, between two or more sides.
Jariik 3 years ago
I'm not saying the average soldier, professional or not, was a good fighter. Indeed, the vast majority of them were trained to fight as a unit, not as individuals.
Martial artists were few back then, but they existed, and that's what we're training for. If I had seen what I saw above as part of unit combat, I'd be impressed. But I just saw two guys with minimal training banging each other until one guy trapped the other guy's shield and hit him.
And combat is always a maelstrom of chaos.
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
Then if combat is chaotic, don't call something chaotic 'not combat'. If you'd said 'this isn't a particularly refined martial art', you still might've made some people annoyed for sitting on your high horse like an arse, but at least you'd have the benefit of actually saying something with real meaning.
If I ever go to Greece (and I do so desperately want to), I'll look you up and we can demonstrate the differences to each other. I think you might be surprised.
Jariik 3 years ago
Then pardon me for not being clear. It's not always easy to convey certain meanings across the net.
But it's not combat, because there's no real violence involved. Neither have I been in combat, and if I'm lucky I'll never be. Like I said, I'm strict with certain definitions, otherwise they get watered down.
You're welcome :D I look forward to that. I always like meeting fellow WMA practitioners.
P.S.: I'm trying to imagine an arse sitting atop a horse... :P
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
I'm glad we could come to some sort of mutual agreement. On youtubes, even, which is amazing in and of itself.
P.S.: Henry VIII
Jariik 3 years ago
All it takes is a little understanding and some courtesy.
P.S.:Didn't get that. Is it your name? Might fine name, in that case!
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
Look for paintings of Napoleon.
TempleOfSin 3 years ago
What the...?!?!?
skallagrimm 3 years ago
ByzantineCataphract said that they were trying to picture an ass sitting atop a horse, so I suggeted searching for pictures of Napoleon. ^_^
TempleOfSin 3 years ago
actually its far from banging away at each other. i can say this as i am the one who dies in this one. our group trains weekly, studies the use of our weapons and take it seriously. not flailing at each other like sca types. lots of blocks strikes etc till one gets or makes an opening and takes it. we forge and make all our kit and train regularly as a unit and individual combat. either way works for us vikings.
saxonone20 3 years ago
That may be, but in the video I saw only two attacks (an uberhau and an unterhau, and just shield blocks. You came up close and I saw no shield bashing, no efficient sidestepping, and no good footwork (hands were out of sync with feet).
And you are supposed to have as few strikes as possible to neutralize an opponent.
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
i will give u one thing, my footwork did suck. three shows, 10 hours and maybe 15 fights on a 98 deg day one can get sloppy and tired. shieldbashing is relatively pointless however and as far as strikes it was done in 15 secs. how few strikes would you like to see, maybe 10 secs. feel better. lose your hockeymask and boffer like a big boy and maybe you'll gain some credability.
saxonone20 3 years ago
You're a funny guy!
Why on the defensive?
As for credibility, I'm an ARMA scholar for two years now. I have plenty of that, after being bruised and battered in countless freeplays with nothing but wood and a fencing mask :)
Feel free to comment on how I suck, but please do so by identifying where as far as technique goes instead of just criticising my equipment.
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
honestly i didnt watch your technique as i opted to not hit play as soon as i saw the boffer and hockey mask. that summed it up before it began, it was charming lok though, suits you good. anyhow going back to work now. tell yur mom i said hi.
saxonone20 3 years ago
You really make me laugh :)
Kids these days.
ByzantineCataphract 3 years ago
Oh, you ARMA guys... So much to say, but too little actual credibility in the WMA world now to matter....
You little scamps! Where is Clements to hold your hand?
GnPdemon 2 years ago
Oh yes, so little actual credibility indeed.
Oh, wait, aren't we one of the top WMA groups worldwide? Wasn't Clements one of the pioneers in the field for over two decades?
Wow, these facts must be all wrong, since we're ARMA after all.
ByzantineCataphract 2 years ago
I am not going to deny that Clements was a pioneer... but the keyword is "was". Medieval Swordmenship (which I admit I own) is now considered outdated.
You guys are only big because of your numbers, not your quality. In fact some of the work published by ARMA on both German longsword and Fiore has set back the study of the Art rather than pushed it forward.
Plus, John shoots himself in the foot by trying to pull of publicity stunts like "Knight vs. Samurai" and running his mouth.
GnPdemon 2 years ago
First of all, he himself admits it is outdated. That 's proof he doesn't hesitate to change.
I fail to see how it has "set back the study of the Art". Wrong teachings or interpretations? Our stuff is tried and true, that's the basis. If it doesn't work, then we didn't interpret it right, so off we go again.
As for Knight vs Samurai, it's more of a move to educate the ignorant masses that think katana=lightsaber rather than a publicity stunt.
Though I do admit he can be rather boisterous :p
ByzantineCataphract 2 years ago
Perhaps I should concede some points. I will be the first to acknowledge that John did write a very good work, but the issue is that it is now outdated, and he is has failed to write any thing of quality after it, and that which he has written has been panned widely outside of ARMA.
Sorry, but the knight vs. samurai was not educational in terms of disproving "katana=lightsaber" (which most in both the JSA and HEMA community think is a silly notion anyway) it was a PR stunt that insulted many.
GnPdemon 2 years ago
First of all... THANK YOU. It was about time I had some intelligent conversation here.
I'll be frank here. The reason that John doesn't do that anymore is because he's become very introverted, if you catch my drift. He's all for ARMA. Now, that's his choice, even though I don't agree 100% with it, but I respect it. He's still as good a teacher as any, and a great fighter.
Of course, it can get quite frustrating over what stuff we "can" show to other WMA-ists, so we can compare notes.
ByzantineCataphract 2 years ago
As for the knight vs samurai, are we both discussing about that old article? I did find it only slightly biased, considering the side it was written.
I won't comment on the style of writing, never to my taste, but he does make his point (pun intended).
...or did I miss something?
ByzantineCataphract 2 years ago
I'm Much more into the Romans than the Vikings.Good call.
BARSZ12 2 years ago
Damn! That was nasty!
MoshotheSpear 3 years ago
good work man, as allways. cheers
Knort 3 years ago
Excellent work guys!
AresAnax 3 years ago
Ha, I like this one! Like a berserker disguised as a normal warrior, freaking awesome!
norioronin 3 years ago
" aaa eeee yyeeeee aaaaa !!! yeah !!!! " 5/5 ;]
winonaaah 3 years ago
You made short work of that guy. Dane fury indeed.
punxunite1472 3 years ago
Well Done
northforge 3 years ago
Out of all the videos you posted from the DMRF. This is the BEST one!
greeneyedgrizzly 3 years ago